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Sunday, 19 Mar 2006
Very Interesting read. Especially this part:
Many are convinced that the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip is one of the major reasons for Islamic terrorism. Is this so?
“Not at all. People who say this, including experts on whose opinions Western decision-makers rely, do not truly understand the theology of Islamic terror. What are the goals of the terrorism perpetrated by Al-Qaida? Zawahiri described this clearly in his book, ‘Horsemen under the Prophet’s Banner,’ which he effectively wrote as his last testament shortly before the terrorist offensive of September 11 (he was certain that after the attack the United States would liquidate all of them).
“Here is what he wrote, on pages 327-328: ‘The jihadist movement must strive for the Islamic nation to take part with it in its jihad, and the Islamic nation will not take part as long as the masses of the Islamic nation do not understand the slogans of the Mujahideen.’ And he adds, ‘Therefore the jihadist movement is obliged to abandon the limitation of going into the fray solely under these slogans - al-hakimiya, al-walaa and al-baraa’ - meaning religious rule based on the Sharia, Islamic religious law; forging ties with believers only; and total and immediate severance from the unbelievers.
“The goal of Islamic terror, then, is to establish a state that will implement the Sharia and divorce itself completely from the infidels - from their religions, their customs, their dress, their institutions, their sciences and their values.
“But al-Zawahiri is smart and is aware of the reality. ‘Regrettably,’ he writes, ‘these slogans are not comprehensible to the masses of the nation, who do not find within themselves readiness to sacrifice for slogans they do not understand, even if the slogans are one hundred percent correct.’”
What solution does he propose?
“He knows that a great deal of time is needed before the masses will understand these slogans. However, he writes, ‘It is clear that our enemies will not give us all the time we need to educate the nation.’ What, then, is to be done? His answer: ‘To our slogans [as listed above] we must add other slogans, which are understandable to the masses of the Islamic nation, and instead of viewing them as being of secondary importance, we must move them forward so that they take their place at the forefront’ - on the same level as the three original slogans.”
What are the additional slogans he promotes?
“‘The slogan that the Islamic nation has understood well for 50 years,’ he writes. ‘This is the slogan of the call for a jihad against Israel.’ You have to understand, for him this is a second-rank goal and its use is solely as a Machiavellian means: If we tell them that the goal is a Muslim state that will amputate thieves’ hands, they will say no, but this goal is clear and simple.
“Another slogan that Zawahiri promotes is the liberation of the Islamic holy places in Saudi Arabia from the American military presence in the Arabian Peninsula, and in Jerusalem from the presence of the Israeli army. The liberation of Palestine is not the central goal of the terror, but the struggle for it helps the terrorists recruit Muslims for the jihad against the Jews and against the ‘Crusaders.‘ In contrast to the left, they hate neither American imperialism nor Zionism; they hate the Christians and the Jews. Not because of what the Jews and the Christians are doing to the Muslims, but only because they are Christians and Jews who did not accept the true faith, Islam.”
As for Hamas and the truce they want:
“The Hamas Charter is taken from the theology of Islamic Jihad. When Hamas announced the possibility of a long-term hudna [cease-fire] with Israel, Western commentators, who are unfamiliar with jihadist theology, wrote that Hamas had become more moderate. That is a foolish diagnosis. Bin Laden recently offered the United States a long-term hudna - so has he become moderate, too?
“Like bin Laden, Hamas took this straight from the jihad theology. What does this theology say? When the Muslim army is weak and is in an inferior position, it must ask for a hudna of three-four years in order to exploit the time to strengthen itself. This is the ‘long term’ of jihad.”
Read it all. Very Interesting!
March 19th, 2006 at 12:14 pm
Well, everything is a percentage, it’s not just an ON, OFF terror push button, and much likely the percentage of terror, will be less without the occupation, simply based on the average arabic street opinion.
March 19th, 2006 at 2:28 pm
Untrue. If Israel pulled back, then there would be MORE terror because the Muslims would see that as a sign of weakness.
The only way to defeat those who see compromise or dialogue as weakness is to obliterate them utterly.
And sadly, we are getting to the point where nuking the crap out of Mecca and destroying the black stone ‘Allah’, is getting to be an ‘acceptable’ option.
March 19th, 2006 at 3:19 pm
Dude though im thrilled by your idea, but as im trying to be the sound of logic, nuking Mecca alone will also increase the percentage of terror, you will also need to nuke the other arab cities to turn the percentage down and it will be the complete joy of counter terrorism’s terror. So i personally prefer just brain washing socities, and putting the black stone in a lovely museum about Islam
March 19th, 2006 at 4:07 pm
Those of us, who have done any serious reading on this subject, know that the jihadist movement is a whole lot more than just Israel. We can only hope that the Western decision-makers, are attempting to catch up.
March 19th, 2006 at 5:09 pm
Although I assume your ‘nuke mecca’ comment is a joke I think people should spend more time and energy actually discussing facts and debating over situations than making retarded comments like that. We should keep the comments respectable and at a higher level of discussion than “Nuke Mecca!!:))”
Lets not turn sandmonkey’s site into the reflection of Ummah.com
March 19th, 2006 at 5:36 pm
I have known for years that Israel and the suffering of the Palestinians is nothing more than a motivator for the jihadis. How would I know this??
Look at the Palestinians. They supposedly have the sympathies of the Arab world, with all the Arab leaders continuously wailing about how the Palestinians suffer so. But what do they do to help?? Nothing.
These Arab leaders have unbelievable amounts of petro dollars that they spend on private jets, Bentleys and Rolls’s, mansions on the south of France. They have billions in Swiss accounts and scattered all over the world. They live lives of obscene wealth.
How much do they use to help the Palestinians?? Do they build hospitals and schools? Do they locate factories, banks, refineries, office towers or any business activity in the Palestinian territories?
The Saudis once had a telephone to raise money for the Palestinians. They raised what 650 million?? Hell they spend that much on cars and jets EVERY YEAR!
Not only do they not give a damn about the Palestinians but they want the Palestinians to continue to suffer so that they can blame all the ills of the Arab world on the Evil West. This is true of both the tyrants and the clerics and imams. They are all complicate in keeping the Palestinains down.
An economicly successful Palestine would be the worst thing that could happen to the tyrants and clerics of the Muslim world. Then the people of the ME would look to their own leaders for answers to their problems.
March 19th, 2006 at 5:41 pm
“‘The slogan that the Islamic nation has understood well for 50 years,’ he writes. ‘This is the slogan of the call for a jihad against Israel.’ You have to understand, for him this is a second-rank goal and its use is solely as a Machiavellian means: If we tell them that the goal is a Muslim state that will amputate thieves’ hands, they will say no, but this goal is clear and simple.
That makes a good percentage of the muslim world total idiots since they eat this lie up. Those muslims redefine the definition of “lemming.”
“Like bin Laden, Hamas took this straight from the jihad theology. What does this theology say? When the Muslim army is weak and is in an inferior position, it must ask for a hudna of three-four years in order to exploit the time to strengthen itself. This is the ‘long term’ of jihad.”
I seem to remember reading that mohammad used this same tactic.
March 19th, 2006 at 6:09 pm
Unfortunately, it’s probably *true* that destroying Mecca and the .. erm.. Kabalah? Is that the name? (eep, my knowledge fails me) would probably be the end of Islamic terror. Why?
Islamic terrorists operate under the belief that it does not matter how many times they lose, they could lose 99 times, but if they win the 100th, that is what matters. Ultimately they feel they will always win. Why? Allah has said so.
That is why Islamic terrorists believe that any land they *ever* held control over for any length of time is theirs by right and they will always fight to get it back because they know if they keep fighting, eventually they will win, no matter how many die before they achieve that.
Well, if they fight because their god has told them they will always win, I believe that it would in fact be total and utter defeat if they lose their holiest city, because then.. where was their god? Why didn’t he protect it?
It’s a war of ideology, not one of strength. They fight for their beliefs, for what they think they are owed and the way to fight that is not to fight people, for they willingly go to the slaughter for their belief. To quote a movie “Slaughter them until you rot, it will not stop them.”
The way is to destroy the will that makes them fight. Destroy the object of their belief that pushes them to fight. In essense, destroy the terrorists ‘god’ and you destroy them.
That is why the US won’t win the war on Islamic Terrorists because we think we are fighting a regular war. We’re not.
March 19th, 2006 at 11:57 pm
Well i agree with Elengil 100% and now this is a foreigner who can absorb and understand the big picture, you should attack the core.
And “freethinker” nuking Mecca wasnt a joke, it’s just one of the real solutions. whats a joke is tying a huge giant with a rotten rope and starting torturing and humiliating him, you are just increasing his anger, making him hating you more, it is just basic emotional feelings, is it hard for anybody to understand?! can you feel safe next to him this way?
Thats what USA is doing now to the Islamic world, you are not living here, but just believe me its not a matter of a person or two, or 500 persons from them killed in Afghanistan, or 5000 from them killed in Iraq and it will be over. This is just increases the rage in all the muslim world against USA, you can deny this but its just the fact of all islamic population, look and you will see it, and yet what appears in the media doesn’t cover the whole truth of rage, and yes Elingil said was right, “Slaughter them until you rot, it will not stop them.” based on their believes.
whats the solution? well there is no easy solution but everything has a solution, 1) kill the giant? nukes and etc….!! or 2) calm down the giant, and convert him from what he think it’s right. If a portion of the billions spent in war, were put on the media trying to change the culture and the minds of islamic population, making a gradual implemented propaganda against Islam without direct insulting. this will do the job, and whats is needed is not much more than what you already did to church after it ruled your political and social life. removing clear islamic signatures that distinguish islamic culture such as veil and other islamic habits. will help islamic culture to resolve in the global culture and not to feel apart of them. Stopping Islam from being a must to study in the schools, will make Islam not more than a historical symbol in 30 years. i know it’s not that easy but with 50 billions to the media and cultural influence the task is clear, arent we smart enough to do it? Simple and direct to the point.
thewiz : yes sure paying for the palstinian will help them end their suffer and settle down as citizens, and decreases their hate to Israel, or another solution is paying to get them out Israel and repair for them an unmanned land to settle in, and this all can happen with a fraction of the war price over the past 50 years. but the core solution is still to free them from religion and by this they can be a peaceful partner to Israel, and maybe Israel should also be freed from religion, after all it’s time for our societies to grow up.
And please guys extract your selves from your positions and think from above the whole picture when you really care for a problem solution, or you will be just a part of the problem. i’m carrying the palstinian muslim identity. And dont be silly and think everything is about good vs bad. what’s happening here isn’t one of your Bruce Willis movies, it’s all just a game of power mental or physical, who is stronger just win.
Unless something is fixed in the genetics, societies are just equally human to each others, so religions culture thoughts all can be changed. i believe in the western model.
March 20th, 2006 at 12:54 am
husamx; True, money can help lots ofproblems. Israel has made a terrible rror by not investinn the Palestinian lands. They should have built factories and put people to work, Built schools and educated tham in western, ie democratic, principles. Built hospitals and modern famrs so they could feed and take of themselves. Israel has made many blunders. Thye could have won many hearts and minds over the last fifty years.
But the main point of the post by SM was that that the AQ types have and are using Palestinians as mere tools, not out of any true sympathy. I merely extended that thought to all the tyrants and clerics of the Muslim world.
March 20th, 2006 at 1:25 am
thewiz..
brush up on your history. Israel DID do all that, and much more. It doesn’t matter, don’t you see?
March 20th, 2006 at 3:50 am
Nuking mecca is not going to convince the fanatics that their god has abandoned them. If losing every single war with the the west in the last century hasn’t convinced them that their god isnt there then nuking a big cube wont either, but hey who knows.
Anyway, the solution to this problem is simple. Since the muslim world is totally dependent on the west (there is no real industry in the arab world, no cars, no planes, no cell phones and no guns that they haven’t bought) the West should import parts of its culture along with every car and phone. We should translate the great western thinkers like Hume, Kant, Locke, Hobbes, Nietzche into Arabic and bombard them with western philosophy. If people want the life style and luxury found in developed western countries they will be forced to change their culture. A country where half the population can’t be productive can never come close to competing with even the poorest western country. I think once people in the arab world understand that they will change themselves, or become nomads in the desert if oil every dries out.
March 20th, 2006 at 5:16 am
Free Thinker.. none of those losses struck at the heart of their ideology.
They don’t fight like we fight. Even if they nuked our whole Eastern Seaboard, we would only be all the more determined to fight. If you strike at their heart, you don’t even have to produce mass casualties, only destroy the thing they see themselves as fighting for.
March 20th, 2006 at 2:46 pm
Buy your kids - when they’re supposedly old enough - a condo, and cars, and give them generous allowances, and treats, and keep the bedroom where they grew up stocked with fresh clothes, a tidy decor, the CDs and toys they like - and guess what. They’ll sail through their aborted or absent 20’s, zoom through their jump-a-month jobs in their 30’s, will play and play and play. But the hand will also be out when they come home for their wash to be done: mommy, could we get a housecleaner, I don’ t have time for that. I is unsurprisingly easy to live the life of the forever-child.
This seems to be the “State of the Palestinians”, unless I’m wrong. They’re literally handed - nothing but “peace” in the balance - billions of dollars every year to live supposedly pacific lives with few worries, easy opportunities, plenty of idle moments, and sufficient distractions.
But no. Instead it has backfired, and the spoiled brats among them (certainly not all, and not even a sizeable fraction) seek to define themselves by the eternal struggle - not to sovereignty, but to war, to delusional aggrandizement of their ‘condition’. Also too consider what a ‘childs view’ they take on their struggle! …
Ever watch a few of the innumerable and comically identical Hindi or Arabic movies that pass for entertainment in Sandistania? OUT come the comically overstuffed cars with the handsome boys and young men - wildly shooting gamely at the evil dark Lord hunkered down behind high wall and oblivious of the plucky underdogs surrounding his mansion. Bang, Bang, Bang - you’re never dead, but you might get a flesh wound - and be a hero. Bang, bang - here he comes, let’s get him, boys!
There is a link to a seriously reported ‘Israeli atrocity’ movie clip (that I’ve lost… grrr…) that graphically shows a Palestinian man getting ‘caught’ in the crossfire between the israeli military encampment and the surrounding ‘gunmen’ shooting at them. He has a young boy cowering in his arm. He’s shot, and so is the boy. The End.
…Or not: a much more careful piece of journalistic research shows that the entire event was staged by the Palestinians with wave after wave (carload of clowns after more) of whoopee-Injuns swarming around, a few shooting aimlessless in the air; it shows people being carried on stretchers, only to fall off, get up, and hop back on. It shows people entering the back of mysteriously instantly-present ambulances, only to be caught a few minutes later hopping out and joining back into the fray at another location (same T-shirt and bad haircut… hard to miss). It shows that the supposedly shot man and boy could NOT have been shot by the Israeli army - wrong angle, and impenetrable barriers around him. It shows that he may not have been shot at all: no telltale blood stains, no official name, or place of residence. Nope.
It goes on further to show the Palis staging a heroic fight against shadow-enemies inside an important (abandoned) building. There are no Israelis, there is no fight. You can clearly see that they shoot the scene, and do it a few more times to ‘get it right’. Pure Paliwood.
No goats - the Palestinians have come to be the impoverished spoiled brats of the Middle East - not helpfully endowed with vast pools of petroleum - forever in a struggle for SELF DEFINITION. How it must be? “We hate you, you Western bastards, but we are starving and we need money. If you don’t give it to us, we’ll send our operatives to your countries to raise rabble against you. So hand over the dough, and make it quick Patsie.”
To paraphrase Shakespeare… “First, we kill all the crackpots…”
GoatGuy
March 20th, 2006 at 6:28 pm
It maybe interesting yet ironic for you to know this “Following the fall of a Jewish revolt led by Bar Kokhba in 132–135, the Roman emperor Hadrian expelled most Jews from Judea, leaving large Jewish populations in Samaria and the Galilee. He also changed the name of the Roman province of Judea (Israel) to Syria Palaestina named after the Philistines as an insult to the now conquered Jews.” Wikipedia. So as Europe are the founders of Palestine, maybe it’s their responsibilities to always pay them! just kidding about the paying part, but the point here is to show, people living on this land since 220,000 years, the conflicts on this land started sometime during the early bronze age…. Now Israel came back to take it but already there are people just living on it. Ok if this is Israel historical right, but still taking out Palestinian out of their homes, you dont suppose that will create a conflict? You suppose this will pass peacefully. You think this conflict is Paliwood, funny! Again evacuating them to Gaza stripe to be the most dense population in the world of around 450/km2 without enough resources for them to live on, that wont be the best environment to raise a peaceful refuged society next to the invader! Again i still think the best solution to be evacuated totally, and i think Israel agree with me on this.
Another Ironic stuff you can find in wikipedia, “in the 7th century Muslim armies invade and occupy most of Spain (At this time Jews made up about 8% of Spain’s population). Under Christian rule, Jews had been subject to frequent and intense persecution, but this was alleviated under Muslim rule. Some mark this as the beginning of the Golden age of Jewish culture in Spain. ” It’s an interesting glimpse from history, just to show that religions thoughts cultures, bad and good, all just relative terms and can be changed. I think it’s time now for all culture to resolve in one culture and religions to be just symbols of history.
March 22nd, 2006 at 12:58 am
Now Israel came back to take it but already there are people just living on it. Ok if this is Israel historical right, but still taking out Palestinian out of their homes, you dont suppose that will create a conflict? You suppose this will pass peacefully.
I suppose if you labor under the impression that this is what actually happened, then it would follow that you’d excuse the Palestinian’s violence.