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Thursday, 23 Mar 2006
The Christian Peacemaker people amaze me. When their people get kidnapped by terrorists, they blame the US troops. When the terrorists kill one of their own, they urge people not to say anything bad about the killers. And now that the Coalition forces saved their people, this is the kind of thanks they give them:
The Christian Peacemaker Teams said the activists went to Iraq “motivated by a passion for justice and peace.” Group volunteers have been in Iraq since October 2002, investigating allegations of abuse against Iraqi detainees by coalition forces. Its teams promote peaceful solutions in conflict zones.
“They knew that their only protection was in the power of the love of God and of their Iraqi and international co-workers,” Pritchard said.
He also called for coalition forces to leave the country.
“We believe that the illegal occupation of Iraq by Multinational Forces is the root cause of the insecurity which led to this kidnapping and so much pain and suffering in Iraq,” Pritchard said.
Sure, attack those who just saved your people, but no, don’t judge the killers or the kidnappers. That would be wrong.
Update: The Big Pharaoh apparently is now a member of the Christian Peacemaker people, and they let him write their press release for them.
The 3 CPT members were held by patriotic Iraqis whom we sympathize with. These poor souls were so distressed by the occupation of their country and they had no other way to voice their opinion except by kidnapping hostages and chopping their heads off. They have done so in the most humane way.
“They killed Tom Fox because they wanted to tell the world that they wanted hospitals, schools, and Starbucks in the Sunni areas. We fully understand what motivated them to do so” said CPT head Dough Pritchard. “Nobody asked the occupation forces to free our members”.
LOL. Go read it all!
March 23rd, 2006 at 3:24 pm
Tom Fox took one for the team, his team, the jihadi killers . These jack-offs could not be happier. Next time they get grabbed, leave them with their soul mates .
March 23rd, 2006 at 3:26 pm
Some things will never change. Christian peacemakers need not be able to think logically. What led to their kidnapping was that they went to iraq without believing that it could become very dangerous.
March 23rd, 2006 at 3:38 pm
Surely there must be a designated drop-off place where these three losers can be set free to be picked up again. The special forces risked their lives for these clowns, only to be told that they should leave Iraq. Yes, we can clearly see the type of society they will establish when left to their own devices. I want our troops home now, too, but the job is not finished. We stirred up the hornet’s nest and it’s our responsibility to set it right. The well-intentioned losers just rescued aren’t helping matters any.
So we’ve got the crazy Christians being rescued from the crazy Muslims. Is all this just advertising for the benefits of secular humanism ? Doesn’t seem like religion is working too well here.
March 23rd, 2006 at 4:03 pm
Some people use the word “illegal” a lot.
I think it means “Jewish or American”.
I’ll have to add it to my liberal dictionary
http://citizenleauki.joeuser.com/index.asp?AID=81628
March 23rd, 2006 at 4:17 pm
Maybe a better term for these clowns would be, “looney letf-wing liberal America-Haters” instead of “CHRISTIAN peace activists!!”
I doubt these hippies’ real motive was Christ. C’mon.
They’re no different than those goofy “human shields”…remember those guys…lol
March 23rd, 2006 at 4:38 pm
What was another kick in the pants, was that many news stories headlined this as saying that they were “released” instead of rescued.
Hope that the guys that rescued them don’t hear about all this, or the next time, they just might say that they have previous commitments.
Papa Ray
West Texas
USA
March 23rd, 2006 at 4:49 pm
Stockholm syndrome, of course. Isn’t it obvious?
Oh,.. it isn’t? bugger.
Well, either way, I’d say this is a branch of christianity that would fit in quite well with certain branches of Islam. They should marry have have lots of children. Or not.
March 23rd, 2006 at 5:17 pm
“I’d say this is a branch of christianity that would fit in quite well with certain branches of Islam”
This is no branch of Christianity. What denomination would this fall under? “Leftology?” Maybe it’s a distant cousin of “Scientology”
March 23rd, 2006 at 5:23 pm
I didn’t mean like mormon or lutheran, I meant the mindset.
March 23rd, 2006 at 5:43 pm
Mindset????? what mind?????
Disgustingly 2 of them are Canadians…
“Maybe a better term for these clowns would be, “looney letf-wing liberal America-Haters” instead of “CHRISTIAN peace activists!!” ”
that comment is bang on… more from the Chrisian Peacemakers..
This past weekend marked the 100th day since the peacemakers disappeared in Baghdad.
“In vigils around the world, people came together to honour our missing colleagues and to call for their safe release” the statement said.
“We also hold in our hearts the families of 14,600 Iraqis currently detained illegally by the Multinational Forces in Iraq who likewise await the release of their loved ones. These detainees are being held without formal charges, without access to their families and legal advisors, and without recourse to a fair and open judicial process.”
Hmm no mention of the families of the BEHEADED…. seems the Christian Peacemakers apply their Christian sympathies to only one side ..
March 23rd, 2006 at 5:50 pm
When Jerry Lee Lewis gave his mother a new Cadilac … she screamed Thank God.
His answer was don’t thank god … thank Jerry Lee Lewis!
March 23rd, 2006 at 6:43 pm
SM,
I hate to play devil’s advocate here but if a psychopath running around my neighborhood murders my family I’d be screaming at my government for failing to protect me. Sure I’d blame the bastard but really what would be the point? He’s a psycho. It’s not like he’s going to be crushed by my reprimands. There will always be psychos. One of government’s reasons for being is to protect us from thugs, psychos, thieves, kidnappers etc….The Coalition forces as the occupying power in Iraq are responsible for security there. They can’t just shrug their shoulders while crime spirals out of control & say well this is because criminals are bad people. Everyone knows criminals are bad people. The public wants to know what those who assume power & responsibility are doing to protect it from the bad people.
March 23rd, 2006 at 6:52 pm
Loulou,
Fine, but if said psychopath kidnapps you and the government rescues you, are you still going to blame the government for your kidnapping, or are you going to thank them for saving you?
March 23rd, 2006 at 7:08 pm
Right on Duggie!
I really really hate the “blame America first” crowd. I wouldn’t mind taking a dump on that Chavez-loving, Castro-humping Cindy Sheehan and her like. I bet her son is rolling over in his grave. If she, and people like her, hate America so much, give your spot to someone else (SM)! They can go move to Afghanistan or something.
SM said:
“Fine, but if said psychopath kidnapps you and the government rescues you, are you still going to blame the government for your kidnapping, or are you going to thank them for saving you?”
How on God’s green earth do you argue that? No rebuttal possible. A simple, “thank you” would have sufficed but no, they’re asking for the release of 14, 600 head-chopping terrorists, HUH??? LOL
March 23rd, 2006 at 9:45 pm
BIG PHAROH.. great press release..
All really good FUNNY comedy has to contain a germ of truth.. In this case you can actually see that these nutbars would actually feel that way.. i lmao ty
March 23rd, 2006 at 11:03 pm
Lou Lou,
These people put themselves into a hostile war zone. They could not expect safety. This isn’t like a psycho running amok in your neighborhood at all; it would be like going to the psycho’s house for a tour of his dungeon and then blaming the authorities for your inevitable victimization.
I think these groups and individuals of their ilk have a wholly misguided notion of peace. I don’t think they even have a clear idea of what their own convictions are. They are ineffective because they are unwilling to make the hard choice. They are *enablers*. They are the battered woman who stays with and defends her abuser because she really wants him to like her. That is weakness. It helps neither party and only serves to increase his disrespect for her. The real peacemakers are the US military. God’s speed to my brothers in arms.
Jen
March 24th, 2006 at 1:01 am
Mabrook Ya Sam Basha on the new blog. If you only charge $1 per hit you will be rich by now
Great site although I disagree as usual with the content heheheeee.
T.
March 24th, 2006 at 1:03 am
Amen, Jen.
Yeah, there have been cases of horendous actions by the armies there in Iraq, but overwhelmingly the actions have been positive, the rebuilding is going on daily between military personnel, civilian workers and Iraqi workers.
Despite what the media would have us believe, there *are* Iraqi’s that are grateful for us being there. There *are* good things being done and progress is being made.
The only hope Iraq has is for us to stay there until they are stablized. Whether you agreed with the initial invation and war or no, there can be little valid argument for us to leave and leave the population essentially defenseless and helpless against those who seek to install a government even worse than Saddam’s.
And while I think people who hope for peace have a good idea, I think those who seek peace through total and immediate withdrawl are either grossly misguided or just plain dumb. Peace is the absence of chaos, and if we leave now, chaos is exactly what will be in our wake.
March 24th, 2006 at 1:47 am
Christian-Peace-Activist is a tri-oxymoron
Christians do not want peace, they want conversion. They don’t care about Jews, they worship the second coming on their home land. They don’t acknowledge Muslims, as Christians are “pretty sure” Muslims are from a cursed line.
March 24th, 2006 at 2:32 am
MT
I believe I speak for myself quite well when I say that’s pure bullshit.
March 24th, 2006 at 2:32 am
MT,
While I completely disagree with your assessment of Christian beliefs in your post; you made me think about some possible motives of this group. They want everyone in the Middle East to know that they’re “Christian”; not simply “humanitarian”, and they bend over backwards to show what they believe is solidarity with the poor, oppressed Muslim world. It does sound like they’re trying to curry favor among Muslims by opposing the United States of the Great Satan. This was a clever missionary effort…except for the part about being abducted, held hostage, and getting killed…there are still kinks to work out…
March 24th, 2006 at 2:37 am
Well put, Elengil. I’m trying to be diplomatic.
March 24th, 2006 at 3:03 am
Unappreciative Christian Peacemakers Insult their Rescuers! (Updated)
… if Christian Peacemaker Teams had gone to Iraq during Saddam Hussein’s murderous regime, or to China while Mao Zedong was slaughtering millions, or to Moscow while Josef Stalin practiced genocide on his people, or to any number of other capitals o…
March 24th, 2006 at 4:10 am
They have hurridly added a addendum to their statement. kinda tripping over their own rhetoric. Sad Sad people.
March 24th, 2006 at 5:06 am
didn’t u read what the man said. it’s self fucking evident, 3eib 3aleik. if there hadn’t been any invasion of iraq, there wouldn’t be any activists and no one being kidnapped. causation.
March 24th, 2006 at 11:58 am
MT, show me where Christians are beheading converts to Islam. show me a Christian Nation that deny’s Muslim’s their daily prayers, (or even a Jewish one) and maybe I’ll consider your opinion worth a stinky dog turd.
March 24th, 2006 at 1:06 pm
[...] The CPT people thank the troops…kinda! Pornstar wine Gratitude Hillary knows the Scripture Denmark: Kick Ahmed Akkari out! A Divine Message The Abdul Rahman Saga Civil Marriage, not civil war Christian Peacemakers activists are freed This is not good Al Qaeda vs. Israel The Allah Conspiracy Technical Note The French are racist I am not the only one who thinks Amr Moussa is a Hack [...]
March 24th, 2006 at 4:30 pm
I appreciate the lively debate. I should have provided more intro on my part - which I apologize. My post was not an accusation, but rather a confession.
I was born into a devout, fundamentalist, Christian home. Both of my parents were in prominent Church positions. Not until my early 20’s was I able to enlighten myself to more moderate beliefs. So, with that said, I feel I may have a little more insight into the Christian movement than say your average “sinner”.
The Christian apparatus (big churches, large conventions, books, movies, videos, missions) is in place for one sole purpose - the Second Coming. It is amazing how a “Revelation” has changed the world.
To be a good Christian, you must do whatever possible to haste the SC. One main tenant a Christian subscribes to is Matt 24:14 NIV – “And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.”
Another tenant is that accepting Christianity is the only way to God - John 14:6 NIV Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” Thus, all other religions have no merit and unlike a “sinner” who is ignorant, someone of a different religion is practicing blasphemy.
Ask any fundy taking a trip to Israel if a Jew will go to Heaven. They get in their tour bus, look at all the places Jesus traveled and have a vision of the SC. The only reason Christians protect Israel, is for the land – not the Jews. This is profound and provocative.
If you believe these two tenants are the pillars of Christianity, you can start to understand their motives. Feeding the hungry, preaching the Gospel, converting the “lost” – these are all byproducts of practicing the two tenants.
Jen and Elengil, I hope this clarifies my position.
Mark, true modern-day Christians don’t behead, but in my opinion, their almost martyrdom like zeal in which they pursue and protect the two tenants is more damaging geopolitically.
March 24th, 2006 at 4:49 pm
MT:
Incorrect.
I, too, was raised in a very conservative Christian home. I was raised Pentacostal, which is about as conservative as you can get. I, too, became more moderate during my college years. I, too, do not totally agree with the beliefs of my parents. And I, too, have a very large amount of experience and insight into the Christian movement.
That said, you’re wrong. Christians do not go to Israel solely for the land. Yes, to a Christian, there is only one way to heaven - through Jesus Christ. All others will be sent to hell. This is true. But what you’re forgetting (or maybe were never taught - I really don’t know) is that Christians know that God keeps His promises - all of them. Even if we, the humans in the equation, do not keep up our end of the deal, God never lets down His end of the deal. In Genesis, God says to Abraham, “I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.” (Genesis 12:3 NIV) God made that promise. God keeps that promise to this day, and conservative Christians believe that for this reason, they must bless Israel, because God made that covenant.
What’s more, no real Christian I know would ever be more interested in land/possessions than people. Yes, Israel is holy land to Christians, but people are far more precious than land, MT. Far, far more precious. You say that Christians are only interested in conversion, and you may be right. But look at it this way - if you knew at the very soul of your being that the person standing next to you was going to go to hell, and at the same time you knew there was something you could do about it, wouldn’t you try? Additionally, Christianity requires you to proclaim your faith - it’s part of following Christ. To not proclaim one’s faith in Christ is as bad as not living your life in a Christlike fashion.
In closing, I greatly disagree with your statement that Christians are only concerned with land, and not people. While I do not consider myself a good Christian by any means, those Christians that I know love people, want people to be happy, and help those in need - not because they want something from said people, but because Christ helped them, and so they’re passing it on.
HeatherRae
Who apologizes for rambling
March 24th, 2006 at 6:04 pm
HeartherRae, good points. I too was raised Pentecostal, spoke in tongues.
I agree with you that a good Christian must proclaim the faith and keep true to the tenants – can’t be lukewarm to be a Christian.
Your reference to Genisis is a good foundation, but remember – Christians only reference the Old Testament as a method to trace Jesus’s blood line to Adam. The New Testament is just that, New – this is where Jews became “enlightened” and separated themselves. So, to discuss true Christian motives, one must stay in the New Testament.
It appears our only disagreement is the Christian view of Israel’s land. Yes I agree, “people are far more precious than land.” What I was trying to convey is – a Christian looks at a Jew as a connection – the obvious one is Jesus was a Jew. However, if the Jewish state was not currently in Israel, say Montana and the Palestinians controlled the land – Christians would do whatever it takes to protect them and the land.
Oh, and yes, we disagree on motivation. True, Christians love people, help those in need – but again, I submit to you, this is only a byproduct of them keeping true to the basic tenants. We need to break this down to the basic element, strip away all the “noise”. A Christian’s main goal is to tarry here on this Earth, until the Second Coming. And to tarry, is to preach the gospel to all nations, to convert the “lost”, tend to the poor and week – all good Christian deeds, but none the less “noise”.
March 24th, 2006 at 6:32 pm
Heh.. boy I’m about to blast almost all of your concecptions out of the water. I’d ask forgiveness but.. eh.. I won’t.
I was raised Christian by a Christian mother and at best, agnostic father.
I tended to look at Christianity as something you did on sundays, not as being a Christian was something that you always were. As can be imagined until my early 20’s, my life was basically your “Typical american’s” life.
Anyway, I’ll skip a lot of the boring details. I discovered a Messianic Church. From the Christian point of view (as I believe Jews have a different definition for the term) A Messianic Christian is either a) A Jew who has converted to Christianity or b) A christian that has embraced the Jewish roots of the faith.
I am the latter.
I don’t simply refer to the old testament to prove Jesus’ lineage or tell cute stories about the ark, or read the proverbs. I *follow* the old testament to the best of my ability. Jesus did *not* come to destroy the law as he himself said.
I have been to Israel, and it had nothing to do with the land. Heck, if it was the *land* I could have just driven over the mountains to the eastern side of my state and seen almost the exact same thing!
I don’t believe that everyone who isn’t Christian goes to hell because, frankly, I don’t believe in hell as it is commonly understood today, nor do I believe the Bible preaches any such thing as eternal torment. Yes, I actually have scripture to back me up. I might post it in my blog one of these days if I decide to take a religious turn with it.
I believe that the Jews are *still* the first and chosen people of G-d, that Christians in no way usurped this or replaced them in G-d’s sight.
I don’t believe that anyone should ever be ostricised for their choices of faiths. I love my Jewish friends dearly and love my Muslim friends the same, and I love my atheist friends and I love my friends because of who they are, not what they necessarily believe (though depending on their beliefs, I may not keep them as friends).
I do believe in the passages that say to preach the gospel to the nations. This is entirely different than *go Convert all the nations*. It is not, stress not, our job to convert people. Last I checked, few hearts and minds were won with ‘holy wars’ and screams of punishment, threats, or hellfire from the pulpit. Hearts are won when we continue in silent observation of our faith, when we simply *are* Christians, not out shoving it down someone’s throat. We have an obligation merely to tell the ‘good news’ and to live it! then it is up to the person and up to G-d what is done from then.
As a side note to Muslims, I’ve read more than a few statements that say that Muslims love Mohammad more than anyone else can really understand. Well, lemme tell ya, whatever you feel for your prophet can in no way compre to how we feel towards our G-d who not only brought us the world of light to save us from our sins, but came Himself rather than sending another, came in the flesh to understand our trials, came as a servant rather than a leader, came and allowed himself to be put to death so that even one sinner might be saved. I’m sorry, there is no love for another man that can be compared to our love for our G-d.
No matter how much you may claim to love an honour all the prophets, Jesus is NOT our prophet. He is G-d, and he is Love.
Ok I’ve wanted to say that for a long time but never did find a convenient place to put it so there you have it. That’s me laid out on the line.
March 24th, 2006 at 7:15 pm
elengil, so that’s what that’s all about. Ok. Now I get it!
March 24th, 2006 at 7:33 pm
… kinda did go on a bit didn’t it? *blush*
March 24th, 2006 at 7:47 pm
… I don’t apologize for what I said, though in retrospect, I perhaps should have worded it slightly less… erm… ‘in your face’ considering my previous statements that that is exactly what we should avoid.
eh. guess I’m subject to hypocricy at times too.
March 24th, 2006 at 10:07 pm
Wow, cool debate!
Christianity comes in many shapes and forms, and a christians attitude to jews and the Holy Land depends on which form of christianity you adhear to, the same goes for converting others/preaching the gospel. In other words, you are all right. Pentacostal Christianity does include working to convert people, and it is a form of Christianity which is growing fast alongside other “charismatic” christian groups. From what I know from Norway, these groups tend to support Israel, but for various resons, including the ones above, but some support the Palistinians, because of the Palistinian Christians. My pint is that it’s very difficult to compare Christianity and Islam and the way both groups of adhearents view different matters because the religions are so fundamentally different, but at the same time it’s very difficult to generalize about “christian” opinion, because the various groups will disagree on so many matters.
March 24th, 2006 at 10:19 pm
K/Oslo,
That’s why I specifically said what *I* believe as I realize I am actually a minority in my religion
It’s also why I detest generalizing anyone by their faith. I certainly don’t want people to assume they know everything I stand for or believe in based on a single word when so many differences exist.
March 24th, 2006 at 10:47 pm
Well amen to that:)
I have to admit I haven’t heard of Messianic Christians before, so it was cool reading about it. I’m currently sharing a flat with an Adventist, and have to admit that I don’t really know what that entails, except that they belive the end of the world is very nigh. He is otherwise a totally cool person though.
March 25th, 2006 at 5:56 pm
I was stopped in the store by a Greek Orthadox nun once.. I mistook her for catholic. *oops* … She was nice about it (of course, I mean.. can you really picture a nun with a temper??) but she stopped me cause she thought I looked familiar.
I had a nice little chat with her. I think it’s kinda cool that we have Orthodox nuns shopping in our tiny little local co-op store.