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Sunday, 26 Mar 2006
The Afghani court has dismissed the case against Abdul Rahman, for, get this, lack of evidence.
An official closely involved with the case told The Associated Press that it had been returned to the prosecutors for more investigation, but that in the meantime, Rahman would be released.
“The court dismissed today the case against Abdul Rahman for a lack of information and a lot of legal gaps in the case,” the official said Sunday, speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly on the matter.
“The decision about his release will be taken possibly tomorrow,” the official added. “They don’t have to keep him in jail while the attorney general is looking into the case.”
Abdul Wakil Omeri, a spokesman for the Supreme Court, confirmed that the case had been dismissed because of “problems with the prosecutors’ evidence.”
He said several family members of Rahman have testified that he has mental problems.
“It is the job of the attorney general’s office to decide if he is mentally fit to stand trial,” he told AP.
He won’t stand trial and he won’t get killed. The christians all over the world will rejoice that this guy won’t die, and the muslims will lament how weak they’ve become, and their clerics will use this as example for years to come on how the christian crusaders are meddling in muslims life and how the muslims need to stand up to them and fight back. We are actually worse off now than when we started.
Don’t get me wrong. While I am glad that the guy will live, I am sad that it had to be this way. Instead of this case sparking the much needed debate inside Islam over whether or not people who convert to christianity or judaism should be killed for apostacy and having that debate affect the outcome, the decision was made by the people in power for political reasons and changed the debate to how weak the leaders of muslim countries are these days. Had this case been allowed to proceed and that guy was allowed to walk away based on the argument of the defense and a judge’s verdict, saying that we can’t kill people who leave Islam anymore, there is no telling what positive effect this could’ve had on the average muslim’s psyche. Instead of seeing this case tilt the international muslim community towards moderation, this will further prove the held belief by millions of muslims that their leaders aren’t really concerned for Islam and muslims, and are more worried about pleasing the west than God or their people, which will tilt them more towards extreemism. This was a wasted opprutunity that could’ve sparked much needed change, but alas, it’s now too late.
Oh well, I am still glad he gets to live though!
March 26th, 2006 at 3:01 pm
Amen to that!
March 26th, 2006 at 3:10 pm
We are actually worse off now than when we started.
Yes. If, as I fear, in the near future someone kills him extra-judiciously, we’ll see that there is one sort of justice for the consumption of the outside world and another for those who actually experience it.
March 26th, 2006 at 3:12 pm
Excellent analysis and commentry!! Almost every line u wrote here is vital. This essentially keeps the status-quo, where there could’ve been a real shift of momentum and some kind of crystalization among substantial swaths of Muslims instead.
March 26th, 2006 at 3:26 pm
Sam: Yes, if “this case [had] been allowed to proceed and that guy was allowed to walk away based on the argument of the defense and a judge’s verdict, saying that we can’t kill people who leave Islam anymore” it would have been wonderful. But what gives you the idea there was a chance the judge would have ruled that way. The judge is also a CLERIC, if you want I’ll dig up quotes on his previous actions.
Remember, Sam, when he complained about threats against him in a local jail, he was transferred to the prison where they hold the AlQaeda and Taliban prisoners.
And I share Solomon’s worries that he will, now that he is out of the limelight, be killed extra-judiciously.
The debate you wanted sparked is happening. As usual, Muslims in the West — or hiding behind anonymity — are arguing for tolerance. Sam, let me ask you, have you discussed this case on your job, and said what you’ve said here? (I won’t be surprised if you answer yes, and a further hat-tip if you have, but I have to ask it.)
Meanwhile, the Muslims in power aren’t, as far as I know, speaking out for tolerance. Has any major cleric in a Muslim country said this? (Again, I hope you can answer yes, with details.)
March 26th, 2006 at 3:42 pm
Unfortunately, I don’t think his life expectancy outside of the court system is any greater than it was when he was on trial.
March 26th, 2006 at 4:28 pm
Isn’t that the point, the clerics don’t wan’t a debate, nor do the politicians. From what I understand is that islamic clerics have to study the sharia for more then ten years. That’s a kind of selection process making sure only the freaks and dipshits will be able to achieve priesthood.
To compare; the selection process in the Catholic church is the total abstinence of sex and marriage, and only the weirdo’s are willing to give that up, making sure that only the sicko’s will become priest.
So reforming islam means reforming the education of the would-be imans, and chancing the selection process in such a way that normal and decent people will be able to become iman.
Until then; stagnation.
March 26th, 2006 at 4:46 pm
SM,
Your analysis is dead-on target. Maybe you could run our State Department?
March 26th, 2006 at 5:19 pm
Abdul Rahman has been released.
The good news: Abdul Rahman has been released. The judge decided there was "problem with the evidence" so they are letting him go for the time being.
The bad news: the odds of him staying alive in Afghanistan is about as
great as the odds o…
March 26th, 2006 at 6:03 pm
Sandmonkey, you have an excellent, well-reasoned blog. I wish everyone in the world would read it along with The Big Pharaoh’s.
You are on target as usual. The way this is being resolved will only make the clerics more bitter. They are not going to be convinced that sparing Rahman’s life is the right thing to do if they are doing this only to avoid pressure from the West, just as Abdul Rahman would not be convinced that becoming a Muslim is the right thing to do just to avoid being killed.
It seems to me that the ONLY way to turn this around is to persuade the clerics, or at least those who follow them, that threatening to kill those who leave Islam is harmful to Islam and thus is displeasing to Allah. And since the clerics will not be impressed by secular-based reasoning or our interpretation of right and wrong, only arguments based on the Koran are likely to change their mind.
I am not a Muslim, and unfortunately me knowledge of the Koran is practically non-existent, so I am not in the best position to put forth such an argument. But if my understanding of the religion is correct then a major goal of Islam is the further spread of the religion. Now, maybe those in Afghanistan aren’t too concerned about the need to spread Islam because nearly everyone in that country is already Muslim. But how they behave could influence whether others outside their country are attracted to the religion. I can’t believe that their current behavior is having a positive effect on recruitment.
Potential New Recruit: Well, your religion has many attractive things going for it. I especially like the way it treats everyone who converts equally, no matter what their race, nationality, or ethnic background. And its teachings on charity and living well are admirable. But what if I decide to become a Muslim and decide later on that I don’t believe anything in the Koran? Can I quit?
Muslim Recruiter: We don’t encourage quitting. This would not be pleasing to Allah. But “There is no compulsion in religion…”
Potential New Recruit: I’m glad you feel that way. But I understand not everyone who follows Islam, or at least not everyone who claims to follow Islam, feels that way. Abdul Rahman changed his mind and he might lose his head over this.
Muslim Recruiter: Yes, but that’s in Afghanistan and they don’t believe in the real Islam. Muhammad, Peace Be Upon Him, would be appalled by this distortion of the religion.
Potential New Recruit: That’s all very well and good. I’m sure Muhammad would be appalled by all this. But that didn’t answer my question. Would my life be in danger if I later decide that Islam is not for me?
Muslim Recruiter: This is the United States. We don’t think like those crazy Afghanis. I doubt anything would happen to you. I doubt we have any extremists around who will take matters into their own hands because they have a warped vision of what Islam is all about.
Potential New Recruit:Doubt? You doubt? That’s not very reassuring.
————————————————————————-
As I said, I don’t know much about the Koran, but I wonder if this passage has any relevance:
[2.8] And there are some people who say: We believe in Allah and the last day; and they are not at all believers.
[2.9] They desire to deceive Allah and those who believe, and they deceive only themselves and they do not perceive.
[2.10] There is a disease in their hearts, so Allah added to their disease and they shall have a painful chastisement because they lied.
This passage may not be directly applicable to this situation because it is referring to those who do not believe in Allah. Since Rahman is a Christian, he believes in the same God that the Muslims believe in—therefore he believes in Allah. It is hard to believe Rahman’s transgression of converting from Islam to Christianity would be considered as grave a sin as outright rejection of Allah. But even if it were, it seems to me (an admitted simpleton in these matters) that there are grounds in this passage to challenge the actions of the Afghanis. The Afghanis are trying to convert Rahman back to Islam at the point of a gun. Suppose Rahman knuckled under and converted back to Islam, just to save his neck. Surely, Allah would be able to see into Rahman’s heart and determine that he was doing this under duress. Surely, Allah would know that deep down, Rahman still believed in Christianity and considered himself a Christian, no matter how he appeared to the outside world. Surely, Allah would know that this “conversion” was a fraud. And surely, Allah would realize that pressure from the Afghani justice system was responsible for perpetrating this fraud.
If we want to change the minds of those who follow the extremist clerics then they must be convinced that Allah will be angered by recruitment or retention through coercion. They will have to be convinced that Allah is not so desperate for worshipers that he is willing to gain them through fraudulent means. Once they are convinced of this then the extremist clerics who continue to advocate coercive means will lose their following.
March 26th, 2006 at 6:26 pm
Islam is such a wonderful religion that it is necessary to threaten it’s slaves, er, I mean adherents with death to keep them in line. Kinda reminds one of the former fantastic Soviet Union where it was necessary to build walls to keep their citizens within the required boundaries.
March 26th, 2006 at 6:57 pm
How much you wanna bet that Hamad Karzai will be assassinated now?
March 26th, 2006 at 6:59 pm
As SM said … “this” case may have gone away … but the problem has not.
Makes you wander how many cases have gone unreported in the past? The last case seems to have come to a conclusion, but the basic problem has not even begun to be addressed.
March 26th, 2006 at 7:03 pm
Monkeyman,
The Muslim psyche affects YOU too. You single out Christianity and Judaism. What about Hinduism, Budhism, Taoism, etc? This about freedom to choose ANY religion under the sun. Obviously you, as a Muslim in Egypt, don’t really “get it”.
March 26th, 2006 at 8:07 pm
[...] UPDATE: The Sandmonkey sees this outcome as cutting off just the debate I’m suggesting. I still think it’s a step. [...]
March 26th, 2006 at 9:06 pm
This articles touches upon the subject of freedom to leave Islam:
http://www.altmuslim.com/perm.php?id=1679_0_25_0_C
and cites an Indonesian cleric for saying leaving Islam must be ALLOWED:
“Professor Falaakh is Vice Dean for Academic Affairs at the prestigious Gadjah Mada University Law School in Yogyakarta where he teaches both undergraduate and graduate studies in government and public law. He is also a member of the National Law Commission of the Republic of Indonesia (2000-03), and Deputy Chairman of the Central Executive Board of NU. Apart from extensive studies in Indonesia and the UK, Professor Falaakh has also worked within the traditional pesentran system of religious training.
In 2002, Professor Falaakh visited Australia and New Zealand at the invitation of the Centre for Independent Studies. On 11 December 2002, he delivered the Acton lecture on Religion & Liberty at the Great Hall of the Parliament of New Zealand.
(An edited version of the text of Professor Falaakh’s talk can be found by accessing the website of the Centre for Independent Studies, going to the search feature and typing in the word “Islam”. Professor Falaakh’s speech is the first item in the list.)
In his speech, Falaakh lists the five basic principles of sharia. The first item in this list is “the protection of religious freedom, or the protection of religion and the way religion is observed”. Falaakh says that this freedom must be preserved even where sharia is “interpreted … more strictly”.
The third item in the list is “hifzh al-aql, meaning mine-that is, freedom of thought, freedom of conscience.” Here, Falaakh addresses the issue of apostasy directly, especially as applied in a pluralistic society. He continues:
“What if, according to my own understanding, I exercise my freedom of thought and choose another religion, denouncing the one that I had professed before and embracing the new one? What about the regulation or provision that many Muslims believe in that those who renounce Islam will be punished by death?
The traditional, conventional understanding of apostasy in Islam says that once you enter into Islam there is no way that you can leave, otherwise you will put yourself to death. If that is really the case, why does the sharia claim early on that there is to be protection of religion?
There was a time when some parts of the Muslim community back in the 7th century were reported to have had renounced Islam and they were chased and punished by death… at the same time, they also waged war, turning against the community they had previously belonged to. So was that a very obvious case of apostasy or a case of rebelling against a political entity that you used to agree with-in other words, violating a political pact you created together with other people? So perhaps it was not really religious at all. It was simply a political affair.”
Falaakh is not alone in the view that the original capital punishment for sharia was more related to the crime of treason. Professor Abdullah Saeed of the University of Melbourne, a graduate of the International Islamic University of Madeenah Munawwarra, recently co-authored a book on the subject together with Hassan Saeed, Attorney General for the Maldives.
Entitled “Freedom of Religion, Apostasy & Islam”, the authors argue that the early development of the law of apostasy was largely a religio-political tool. Further, there is a diversity of opinion among early Muslims on the punishment. There are substantial ambiguities about what constitutes apostasy, and the textual evidence doesn’t always assist in resolving these.
The authors conclude that those arguing in favour of the death penalty neglect a vast amount of clear texts in the Qur’an which favour freedom of religion in constructing the law of apostasy.”
March 26th, 2006 at 9:21 pm
Robin Messing says…
Since Rahman is a Christian, he believes in the same God that the Muslims believe in—therefore he believes in Allah.
If you study a bit from the bible and the koran, you will see that the two deities are not the same person. Allah is the moon god, and there is plenty of evidences to support that, starting with this one:
http://www.studytoanswer.net/myths_ch3.html
Allah is the fella who says he created the mountains to stabilize the earth from shaking. I kid you not. More information is here:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/skm41008.htm
if allah is my creator and mohammad is his prophet, then I’d much rather spend eternity in hell than share paradise with those two.
March 26th, 2006 at 9:57 pm
No need to bash Islam, its much more sensible to bash the people who are doing this in the name of Islam. This of course would not need to be said if Muslims and Muslim governments themselves condemned the charges against him, which is not happening.
Anyway, I dont think Rahman will survive in Afghanistan, especially because of all of this publicity. If Van Gogh was sliced in Europe in broad daylight for making a movie, Rahman is definitely a marked man in Afghanistan.
March 26th, 2006 at 10:24 pm
Different country…different sentence…
Egyptian Blogger Arrested, Expelled From Al Azhar For Exposing The Truth: The (Not-So) Strange Case of Kareem Amer
When did this happen?
Papa Ray
West Texas
USA
March 26th, 2006 at 10:31 pm
Well, ‘jonas’, at this point we diverge. Any religious faith, perhaps by definition, will include absurdities. You make it sound like Islam can be dissed due to things like “Allah is the fella who says he created the mountains to stabilize the earth from shaking. I kid you not”… You might as well then add that the same can be said for every religion. Don’t make it sound as though Islam somehow stands alone in making absurd-sounding statements.
March 26th, 2006 at 11:30 pm
According to Mohammed (I speak as a christian) Allah is the god of Abraham. No amount of faulty logic or twisted association can change that relationship. Baal was an entity that was known to both the jews and later the muslims, both cultures and religions were aware of the difference between it and Yaweh.
Garbage religion isn’t only the provenance of the wahhabi. I’ve also heard of some really ignorant christians.
March 27th, 2006 at 12:10 am
Anon @ #19 says
Any religious faith, perhaps by definition, will include absurdities.
I won’t argue that christianity is error free, but what I am saying is Islam leads the pack when it comes to absurdities. Some of the things mo and allah allegedly said boggles the minds. Mo says allah uses shooting stars as missles against the jinns (evil spirits). In another instance, mo claimed to have split the moon in two. This is a pro-islam link that supports that absurdity.
Looking at other parts of the two holy books, one can see that mo literally and figuratively got away with murder. Allah never punished him for anything. What he said and did was supported by allah, whereas if the jewish prophets or kings had done similar things, the god of the bible would punish the entire people of israel for it.
There are numerous factors that challenge the muslim claim that both deities are the same person. They are not.
March 27th, 2006 at 2:40 am
FreeThinker: “No need to bash Islam, its much more sensible to bash the people who are doing this in the name of Islam.”
It’s becoming progressively more difficault to make that distinction. It seems to me, as an outsider to the muslim world, that these “fanatics” actually have backing to their crazy work in the scriptors the muslims are following. Sharia used to just make me shake my head - today it’s become a beacon of why Muslims seems to be the problem of the world today. Looks like “the choosen” people are on the edge of being shown the same door the last “choosen people” were. The fact that we, as humans, are repeating these mistakes again, is making me angry - but where is the way out where people like SM and “his gang” are so few, and their message does not reach the people it’s about?
SM is right on - this is not a solution; this action just confirms both sides of the conflict of how stupid the other side is. The cliff between us is getting wider by the day.
March 27th, 2006 at 2:46 am
How come everybody purports to know the goodness or the evil or the purpose that lurks in man or his beliefs. None of us can be sure. Blind faith doesn’t justify hatred any more than pure knowlege justifies contempt. Citing script from each others books of faith isn’t helping.
Knock it off!!
March 27th, 2006 at 2:50 am
Sam,
I had a comment at slot #21 but it says it was waiting for moderation, and now that post is gone. Is this a glitch or are my comments being moderated?
March 27th, 2006 at 6:52 am
Jonas:
Just to add to your collection of absurdities in the Qur’an:
Sura 18:86 and 90 have people arriving at the place (on Earth) where the sun rises and sets. And 5:116 explains that the Christian Trinity is God, Jesus, and MARY.
And your post is back.
March 27th, 2006 at 7:12 am
Oh, and a hadith for today:
When Mohammed (pbuh) was wandering around the Kaaba pulling down the hundreds of false gods, every time he pulled one down, Abu Bakr ran to a pagan nearby. “What was that one’s name?”
The first few times he did this, the Messenger ignored it, but by the 100th time he couldn’t help himself. “Abe, why do you keep doing that? Why do you keep asking the names of the false gods?”
The beloved assistant looked at the Prophet and shrugged.
“Idol curiosity, i guess.”
(okay, I stole it, but it’s funnier my way)
March 27th, 2006 at 8:20 am
Idol curiosity!! LOL LOL!
March 27th, 2006 at 4:04 pm
Please visit my blog to read an article on the Abdul Rahman case.
http://egyptianobserver.blogspot.com/2006/03/once-muslim-always-muslim.html
March 27th, 2006 at 4:17 pm
LOL @ #26
March 27th, 2006 at 6:14 pm
Sadly, the story goes on
http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/03/27/christian_afghan060327.html?ref=rss
March 30th, 2006 at 2:27 am
i am agreeing with you sandmonkey about the humiliation that we muslims faced because of releasing that abd al rahman…and it was another new sign of muslim humiliation in front of the west….
but i disagreed with your gladness with leaving him alive….that gladness dismissed your view about weakness of muslims????
how could you be glad about disability of implementing our islamic rule in such case???
copts have no divorce in their relegion, they won’t change it or be glad with the latest court descion!!!!!
it is our relegion that we should help in implementing its rules not to be GLAD!!!!
http://www.qaradawi.net/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=4231&version=1&template_id=130&parent_id=17
that is the link to describe all the rules about that case in islam