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Friday, 31 Mar 2006
Just read!
Voice in tape: How did the Mujahedeen treat you?
Jill Carroll: They treated me very well. They treated me very well, like a guest. I was given very good food, kept very safe, treated very, very well.
Voice in tape: Did you think the American Army or the CIA would save you in any time?
Carroll: I thought maybe they might. Sometimes I thought that they might come, that they might find me. They might (sic) a way to know where I am and come get me. I did think maybe they might.
Voice: Why didn’t they save you?
Carroll: Well, I think the Mujahedeen are very smart and even with all the technology and all the people the American Army has here, they still are better at knowing how to live and work here and more clever, despite all the technology of the American Army, still more clever and better at being here than the American Army, still better at what they do.
Voice: Does this mean anything?
Carroll: I think it makes it very clear, it makes very clear that the Mujahedeen are the ones who will win in the end in this war, I think it makes very clear that even with thousands of troops and airplanes and tanks and guns that that doesn’t mean anything here on the ground in Iraq as it shows over time, maybe how many months over time or however (sic) months are left in the occupation that it’s pretty clear that the Mujahedeen are the ones that will have the victory left at the end of the day. It shows that no matter no matter what Americans try to say is happening here or try to do with all their weapons, they aren’t going to be able to stay here, they’re not going to be able to stop the Mujahedeen and that’s for sure.
Voice: What will you tell the American people?
Carroll: Well, first of all I want them to be able to understand, I want them to understand the Mujahedeen, truly. There are a lot of lies to come out of the American government, calling the Mujahedeen terrorists and other things and I think it’s important that American people hear from me the Mujahedeen are only trying to defend their country. This is only a jihad to stop an illegal and dangerous and deadly occupation so I think it’s important that people see the Mujahedeen are people that we’ve seen in our entire history resisting an occupation trying to fight a foreign force in their land, it’s their country and they have a right to fight for their own freedom so I want people to understand that it’s not people that like to kill, not people that like violence but people who love their country, people who want to see their country free from an occupation and also I want them to understand that the situation in Iraq in general, how difficult it is here, people don’t have electricity, people don’t have water, children don’t have safe streets to walk in, women and children are always in danger&People are killed left and right on the streets without any reason. People die everyday from the bombings and shootings of the army and all these things. So I think people need to understand in America how difficult life is here for the normal, average Iraqis. That everyday is a matter of survival, life and death for most Iraqis and thousands and thousands and tens of thousands of Iraqis have lost their lives here because of the occupation. I think Americans need to think about that and day to day how difficult life is here, how terrifying it is for most people to live here everyday because of the occupation.
Voice: Do you have a message for Mr. Bush?
Carroll: (Laughs)Yeah, he needs to stop this war. He knows this war is wrong. He knows that it was illegal from the very beginning. He knows that it was built on a mountain of lies and I think he needs to finally admit that to the American people and make the troops go home and he doesn’t care about his own people.He doesn’t care about the people here in Iraq, he needs to wake up and the people of America need to wake up and tell that what he’s done here is wrong and so hopefully this time he can get the message that this war was wrong and the continuing occupation is wrong adn he could change his policies. He’s dangerous for Iraq. He’s dangerous for America. He needs to accept that and admit that to people.
[...]
Voice: What do you feel now that the Mujahedeen are giving you your freedom while there are still women in Abu Ghraib living in very bad (unclear)?
Carroll: Well, I feel guilty honestly. I’ve been here, treated very well, like a guest. I’ve been given good food, never, never hurt while those women are in Abu Ghraib. Terrible things are happening to them with the American soldiers are torturing them and other things I don’t want, I can’t even say, so I feel guilty and I also feels it shows the difference between the Mujahedeen and Americans, the Mujahedeen are merciful and kind that’s why I’m free and alive. The American army they aren’t […not clear…] I feel guilty and I also feel that it just shows that Mujahedeen are good people, fighting an honorable fight, a good fight while the Americans are here as an occupying force treating the people in a very, very bad way so I can’t be happy totally for my freedom, there are people still suffering in prisons and very difficult situations.
March 31st, 2006 at 7:52 am
Whether Carroll was conspiring with her “kidnappers” before the “kidnapping” is the only remaining question. Clearly she’s with the jihadys now. She refused a debriefing or military transport home.
He knows that it was illegal from the very beginning.
What changed after 1998?
Oh, yes, of course, a Republican became president.
There was this little memo as well.
It’s not the boring sameness of the politics of journalists that bothers me. It’s their lack of curiosity, interest in history, and unwillingness to dig for facts. I think just getting to the basic facts is a full-time job. Ideology is easy. Anyone can have an opinion.
Whatever they’re smoking in journalism school, don’t give me any.
March 31st, 2006 at 8:08 am
Blasphemy!
She’s a traitor!
How can she side with the smelly, stinking, backward, barbaian arabs?
Can’t she listen to the moderate arab voices like sandmonkey who tell us the truth about their people.
March 31st, 2006 at 8:21 am
B Says:
…
Do you really think that sounds like Jill Carroll’s own balanced reply ???
‘Cos I don’t !
March 31st, 2006 at 8:25 am
OK dude, fair enough - but firstly you got to temper what’s she saying with the fact that she might have a little touch of the Stockholm syndrome; secondly I don’t think it’s fair to say “no comment, just read” as if her words are self evidently true (or false).
There’s a lot of validity to what she’s saying, but then, the Mujahadeen are trying to make out as if they are simply freedom fighters. Not true, or if they are it’s with a gross over simplification of the politics involved.
I’m sure they aren’t too happy about the yanks being on Iraq soil, but then it’s not as if they aren’t going to leave eventually - the Mujahadeen could do their best to make sure the rebuilding and transferal process goes smoothly without violence - it may be a PR coup for Bush or whatever, but so what?
The Mujahadeen, like so many others in this world think that if they choose a subject to get indignant about they can solve their problems with guns and violence.
They say the Americans will never win with their advanced technology and that the Mujahadeen will win eventually - so can’t they bide their time without detonating bombs and killing innocent civilians?
Nope, because they HAVE to fight. Whatever the cost they HAVE to fight. I remember reading a quote somewhere that said something like “there’s nothing so commonplace as a young man who’s willing to give his life to fight in a war” - that says it all for me. It’s not noble, young angry men are gagging to see some combat - whether it be religious wars, political wars, drug wars, football wars.
March 31st, 2006 at 8:30 am
Didn’t they kill her Interpreter? I guess Jill didn’t find it relevant when glorifying killers.
March 31st, 2006 at 8:54 am
This twit gained weight in her “captivity” What she is saying now is not a lot different than the swill she wrote prior to her absence. I never thought she was in any danger of death or mistreatment unless the meme needed tweaking .
Her interpreter’s murder? Well, think about Lenin and omelets. Her interpreter was worth 10 times what this little jihadette ever will be.
March 31st, 2006 at 9:03 am
I wouldn’t disagree with you Justin and I think your pitch about the Mujahadeen is entirely valid. But context is everything in the world of soundbytes and content apart, that one sounded slightly less than kosher to me. We’ll see in a day or two when the lady starts the media circus round - and there has been a notable volte face or two already this week in the hostage and martyr arena.
March 31st, 2006 at 9:16 am
Put a gun to my head, and I’ll do anything!
March 31st, 2006 at 10:21 am
Lets see what she says when she is not in the costudy of the Islamic Party of Iraq (who is widely blamed for her kidnapping in the first place)
If her message is the same on American soil, I guess Stolckholm syndrome wins again.
March 31st, 2006 at 10:29 am
If she does stick to this disgusting position, perhaps someone should ask her if the wonderful Mujaheddin are ethical enough to know that “resistance” does not include kidnapping innocent people… or chopping the heads of teachers for that matter.
March 31st, 2006 at 10:30 am
She has no gun to her head now.
Cindy Sheehans replacement forthe MSM anti-war effort, hajib and all. She seems to have enjoyed her 82 day slave status.
I see a book and movie deal in the making.
Wander if I could get the same deal?
March 31st, 2006 at 10:32 am
I’ve never been very impressed with the war in Iraq but this leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Kidnappers are criminals not Mujahideen. And how can she say this when they killed an innocent person just for working with her?That poor guy.
I can only think she must still be afraid for her life. Maybe she’s being forced to say those things.
March 31st, 2006 at 10:41 am
I’d like to join in your anti-terrorism webloggers…
March 31st, 2006 at 10:48 am
http://www.lauramansfield.com/j/jolkorl2.rm
As far as that excuse of Stockholm Syndrome goes, that only occures in people that already agreed with the possitions of their captors and just needed an excuse to admit it.
It’s just another bit of “cult of victom” that’s so popular these days.
March 31st, 2006 at 10:54 am
Thanks for adding me.
I did place your great weblog link on my blog as well
Wish there were more people like you in this world.
March 31st, 2006 at 11:01 am
Well as a liberal i’m very against the war in iraq. I don’t think it’s right however to kidnap innocent people or kill them as a form of resistance. For that there’s no excuse what so ever. That is also how i feel about the British and American forces who are there now, she may be glorifying her captors but that’s no worse than most people and the biased media glorifying the main killers in the region and Bush and Blair of course.
March 31st, 2006 at 11:14 am
Wow, I was against the war from the start but her words are too much even for me… one thing though… I don’t think she has so much the Stockholm syndrome as she was perhaps brainwashed or is simply afraid for her life. I mean, look at the way she repeats everything? When you’re giving an honest speech you aren’t this desperate to emphasize some points. Give her time to get over it, to collect her balls and her marbles
March 31st, 2006 at 11:49 am
I think she needs psychological help. She came through an ordeal where she woke up in the morning not knowing if she would be killed that day. I hope she recovers.
Stan
March 31st, 2006 at 11:55 am
Did any of you actually read the article Sandmonkey links to? If not read the first couple of paragraphs and then make up your minds about whether she is in a safe environment when this video was produced. The video was discovered on a jihadist website and it appears to have been produced by her captors before they let her go.
N, I gotta hand it to you. You are one of only a time handful of lefties who actually acknowledge that there was more than one president or prime minister involved in the coalition. Now if you could just open your eye lids a wee bit more and acknowledge a few of the others.
March 31st, 2006 at 11:56 am
time = tiny
March 31st, 2006 at 11:59 am
[...] Withholding Judgment for now No comment Jill Carroll Freed 10 best Accidental discoveries Hindu Cartoon controversy Hamas MP: “Jihad is our way!” The 39 dollars experiment Useless news You are hurting Bush’s feelings Canada cuts of aid to the PA My Aunt, the Jews and the Tsunami! I am seeing colors Iran cracks down on bloggers The Hilton sisters cartoon show 8 year old boy accused for sexual harrassment [...]
March 31st, 2006 at 12:09 pm
Sandmonkey, you have a spam bot.
March 31st, 2006 at 12:19 pm
Louise, my eye lids are wide open believe me, oh and i’m so not a leftie. Now if righties like you opened their eyelids at all they would have to admitt that whatever’s going on in the middle east kind of fades in the background thanks to what’s happening in Iraq. I’m just saying that just as you’re prepared to voice an opinion, and rightly so, where the jihadis are concerned, you should at least acknowledge the jihadis on the other end of the spectrum too. The ones killing far too many innocent people in Iraq to mention! N
March 31st, 2006 at 12:24 pm
Interesting indeed- although I see where Jill is coming from, I was taken by surprise.
But wow, most of these comments on this post were even more surprising to me. I wasn’t aware that Americans have reached such a level where they are as bad as Arabs; general hypocrisy, and inability to accept one’s own faults, and the “conspiracy theory” attitude.
March 31st, 2006 at 12:49 pm
N said, “you should at least acknowledge the jihadis on the other end of the spectrum too. The ones killing far too many innocent people in Iraq to mention!”
Please, N, *do* try to mention how many innocent Iraqis are being killed by American “jihadis”. Who do you think is targeting innocents?
As for Jill…I can’t say I expected anything else from her or from other journalists who went to Iraq for the same reasons. That’s why she was chosen by them. This has been a very effective psy op. That was always what this was about.
March 31st, 2006 at 1:23 pm
Louise, thank you for pointing that out
I initially only read the article on SM’s post and assumed her comments where made post-release. In that context the comments, in my mind, went further than can be explained by being cautious given she is still in Iraq.
If, at the time of making of this video, she was still being held by the kidnappers or their proxies, then these one sided statements are entirely consistent with her reacting under duress to: “hey, if you give use something here we may well release you”.
March 31st, 2006 at 1:25 pm
N, would these others be the Islamists or the Baathists? And like Jen says, give us some numbers or links or something.
March 31st, 2006 at 1:30 pm
Jen, if you want to know exactly how many iraqi civilians have been killed you can find out easily enough or are you disputing that innocent civilians are being killed there every day?!But oh wait you think that’s ok because it’s a war, so it’s legal. Oh no wait, it’s not even legal!!!! Let me clarify what i said before:I absolutely hate extremists and jihadis and those who politicise religion, however i’m not selective with my convictions which means that in the same way that i’m unable to accept any justifications from islamic “mujahideen”, i’m just as appalled by Bush and Blair’s justifications for the Iraq war. If you disagree, that is your opinion. It all comes down to which school of thought you subscribe to, if you’re someone who believes the war was necessary and is justifiable then we’ll never agree. For the people who think that what the jihadis are doing is justifiable, then we’ll also agree to disagree. As far as i’m concerened both are doing things that are justifiable according to their beliefs/needs etc. And believe me, i’m in no way saying Arabs are perfect, far from it….
N
March 31st, 2006 at 1:45 pm
Neither was Clinton’s war in the Balkans legal. And what have we there now? Al-Quaida is setting up massive operations from that region. Apparently it isn’t just Republicans who screw up, eh N?
March 31st, 2006 at 2:00 pm
We all suffer from career-minded politicians who get carried away with the idea of the ultimate beau geste. Surely it never was possible or even remotely likely, that to take a single element (elected representation) of our own imperfect governance and try to graft it on to alien stock, would produce a brand new working democracy. Our “democracies” are the consequence of complex social interactions that have been working themselves out for centuries in their own particular environments. Pack that up into an inflatable, ruggedised, air-droppable item that can be assembled and switched on by a bunch of squaddies in a week - right away Sir !
We in the West have been perpetuating this particular piece of foolishness for half a century and not yet noticed that it never works.
I fervently hope, that in view of the serious threat that the world faces from Islam, western strategies may soon take a turn for the better.
March 31st, 2006 at 2:06 pm
If these ‘mujahideen’ are only defending their country, then why not reinstate Saddam Hussein into power and see them defend their country against him.
March 31st, 2006 at 2:12 pm
Michael - there are rather more strands to the tangle than that.
March 31st, 2006 at 2:41 pm
its sad too read and see,
we as americans are always wrong,
the insects are held on a pedestal
liquidate all extremist muslims
close the boarders
March 31st, 2006 at 2:57 pm
Is that surf-boarders or snow-boarders ?
March 31st, 2006 at 3:01 pm
N, where I differ from you is that I cannot equate jihadists with American soldiers. War may cause death and destruction all around, but the aims of each side could not be more divergent. I understand you feel there’s no justification for this war, but your words seem to indicate that you believe there is no justification for *any* war. If that is the case, then you’re right. We’ll just have to disagree; I could never be an enabler. That causes more suffering than any war could.
March 31st, 2006 at 3:03 pm
Gary, I agree that it’s not just the republicans who screw up.
Sean”…in view of the serious threat that the world faces from Islam….” Maybe you should change that to islamic terrorism/extremism or just terrorism and not Islam.
“Wake up America”, loving that title, if only. But hey at least you made the vital distinction by calling for the “liquidation of muslim extremists” and not just muslims!I fully agree.
N
March 31st, 2006 at 3:12 pm
I don’t think WUA was advocating ridding the world of extremists; I think s/he was *lamenting* it.
Then again, I don’t really have a clue what it was s/he said…
March 31st, 2006 at 3:13 pm
Jen, I hate all kinds of war, however, some are a necessary evil. This one however, well we can have this discussion all day and still disagree. I do know a lot of people including politicians, public, etc who are very against the Iraq war. Of course American soldiers are different to jihadis, they were both recruited to fight their leaders’ wars but perhaps soldiers, American or British, are more noble because they are willing to die defending their country in a seemingly legitimate way. Though i’m sure the jihadis out there would say the same thing about what they’re doing. Anyway, i do actually respect soldiers who put their life on the line whenever they’re called upon. But i disagree with those who use them to fight illegal wars. N
March 31st, 2006 at 3:23 pm
N
Maybe you should change that to islamic terrorism/extremism or just terrorism and not Islam.
Thankyou for the most generous offer of free editing, you’ll be disappointed to kinow that I prefer my own words. Would you like me to return the compliment and adjust your texts a little perhaps?
March 31st, 2006 at 3:32 pm
I’m not arguing the Iraqi front with you, N. That’s not the issue I find disconcerting in this discussion. It’s the moral equivalence. We are not fighting Iraq. The Iraqi army is fighting side-by-side with American soldiers. The people we *are* fighting are not “freedom fighters”. They desire the very opposite thing. Are there nice and/or ignorant people who get caught up in the wrong cause? Sure. That goes without saying. You can’t use that to justify inaction. These are not good people, N. Their fondest hope is to excercise dominion over the lives of their people.
It would probably be best left to one of our Muslim and/or Arab friends here to elucidate.
March 31st, 2006 at 3:36 pm
Geez, Sean. He didn’t edit your words, he just made a suggestion. I bet he’d like to know why you don’t make the distinction. =)
March 31st, 2006 at 3:36 pm
Some of you have no idea what you are talking about. I am a veteran of the Iraq War. Do you think we just go around killing innocent people for the fun of it? We only use our weapons in defense or for very organized, small attacks on Jihadi strongholds. It’s the Muhajedeen and the Jihadis who are going around killing innocent civilians. Maybe most of you have forgotten how last spring a suicide bomber rammed a truck into a group of 15 CHILDREN merely taking candy from Marines. All of the children were killed including the Marines. These are the types of acts these Jihadis do and somehow the American soldier or British gets blamed. I do not agree with the premise that Bush used to invade but now that we are there we must do what’s right. We would have won this thing already but out hands are tied because of political correctness bullshit. If we attack a mosque that is used for a weapons depot we are seen as the human rights violaters. Maybe some of you should check some FACTS of what’s really going on instead of making half-assed judgements. Did you already forget about the Bulgarian helicopter that was shot down last summer by Jihadis with one survivor and what they did with that survivor? The lone survivor asked the Jihadis for help when they came up to the helicopter with their video camera and shot him. Did they try to help the Bulgarian soldier? No they shot him. I challenge any of you to join the Army and see how it really is. I know most of you won’t because you are pussied who’d rather complain about injustices instead of fight for them. It’s a shame that soldiers are already back to being baby killers.
March 31st, 2006 at 3:37 pm
Sean, maybe you’d like to explain the HUGE statement with reference to the “serious threat faced by the world from Islam”. Not extremism but Islam. I’m not adjusting your texts but if you don’t want people to comment, in the spirit of free speech and that…..
N
March 31st, 2006 at 3:47 pm
Jen, “We are not fighting Iraq. The Iraqi army is fighting side-by-side with American soldiers. The people we *are* fighting are not “freedom fighters”
This would all be well and good if it was true, then again we can talk all day about whether or not it’s true. I’m glad that’s what you think is happening in Iraq, it makes me feel a lot easier about your pro war position.
As an Arab, i can honestly say that most arabs are against the Iraq war, i know a lot of iraqis who have families there and lost a lot of people and so i get to hear both sides if you like and not just what gets reported by the media.
In your next point you referred to “inaction”. Inaction is the worst kind of response, but to have action there needs to be a reason, which in this particular case, WMD, none was found. That is why i’m so against this war. Oh, and thanks for pointing out to Gary that i just wanted to know why he didn’t make the distinction.
Nahla
March 31st, 2006 at 3:47 pm
Thank you Carrie. Nobody ever wants to face facts. We want to talk about ideas and ideals and feelings. We overintellectualize and lose common sense. Hooah!
March 31st, 2006 at 3:50 pm
N
maybe you’d like to explain …
Sorry - you have your view, I have mine. We both express them. I don’t have to discourse with you on your terms any more than you do on mine.
Jen Says:
why you don’t make the distinction. =)
Correction Jen. I am making the statement that I want to make. It is no surprise that you would like me to concur with your distinction. You are permitted to disagree, but not to bludgeon me into seeing things your way. You bang on about free speech - well here we go - just disagree !!
March 31st, 2006 at 3:57 pm
“Sorry - you have your view, I have mine”. No need to apologize.
It’s ok to have your view but that’s what i’m asking. What is your view? If there is something i didn’t get in your post it’s ok for me to ask for a clarification, so as not to respond to something you didn’t mean, and for you to clarify it and for us to then agree to disagree. It’s called free speech, get it?
Nahla
March 31st, 2006 at 4:13 pm
Sean, you misunderstood me. I never gave an opinion at all.
March 31st, 2006 at 4:14 pm
“in view of the serious threat that the world faces from Islam”
I believe that Islam is a dangerous brutal ideology with colonial ambitions that threatens the Western world. There might be some poetic justice in that, in view of historical colonial behaviour of Europe vis a vis Africa, India etc … and even in some people’s perception of current American foreign policy. BUT, I am neither attacking nor defending such views. YOUR views are deduced from your own experience and mine likewise. It is not possible by a long stretch, to review all somebody else’s evidence for their opinion on a forum such as this - especially with many simultaneoous conversations.
March 31st, 2006 at 4:18 pm
I wonder if Jill may, in time, do a 180. She is likely smart enough, has been working for a highly respected Christian newspaper which means she’s associated with some decent people who don’t buy jihadi bs. With that as a base, the weight of all the rubbish in her head may at some point reach critical mass. Could someone send her a Koran so she can get the facts on the religion of peace?
March 31st, 2006 at 4:20 pm
Sean, “I believe that Islam is a dangerous brutal ideology with colonial ambitions that threatens the Western world”. We’ll definately agree to disagree but at least now i know what you meant by your previous statement.
Nahla
March 31st, 2006 at 6:45 pm
Classical Stockholm Syndrom. The more you’re detained, the more you become afraid, the more you ’submit’ mentally.
March 31st, 2006 at 8:00 pm
Nope. I really think she beleives thet the people who kidnapped her were wonderful wonderful people. Lets all kidnap someone today.
If somebody needed capturing by zaquari and his throatslashers…Its this idiot.
March 31st, 2006 at 10:09 pm
I agree with Vox P. It sounds like classic Stockholm Syndrome.
March 31st, 2006 at 11:42 pm
I’m going to go and throw up after I smash something that makes a nice, loud, CRASH.
April 1st, 2006 at 6:13 am
Would someone please, please, please rip that retarded nun’s wimple off of this jihadette’s dome! Please!
April 1st, 2006 at 6:20 am
I judged her wrongly, she was under durress and had to make that terrible statement to earn her freedom. She is a good noble journalist.
To the soldier Carrie, as a Canadian, thank you for your brave survice. I admit I was against the war for progmatic reasons, I have to ask myself what the hell have I and my fellow liberals ever done to bring freedom, democracy, and human rights to the world.
Its true, Bush lied and even worse, was terribly negligant in planning the war. But atleast the neo-cons are trying to bring freedom. Perhaps they are naive in believing that all human being will accept freedom if given the choice, but this naivity makes them the least racist and most optimistic people on the planet. They are wrong, but they are wrong for the right reasons.
For those of us confused over the difference between war, resistance, and terrorism… the difference is the terrorist INTENTIONALLY kill innocent women and children because they know thats what hurts us the most. True innocent people die when the west fight the terrorist, and that is trully tragic and hurts us all. But anyone who blieves that free nations secretly want to kill women and children are too dillusional for rational debate.
April 1st, 2006 at 10:03 am
Bravo # JordanR - you’re leading the field !
There’s times when it’s a real pleasure to say I told you so - not for the self-gratification, but because the poor woman has been cruelly slandered.
March 31st, 2006 at 8:21 am
“Do you really think that sounds like Jill Carroll’s own balanced reply ???
‘Cos I don’t !”
April 2nd, 2006 at 6:50 am
“Former hostage Jill Carroll strongly disavowed statements she had made during captivity in Iraq and shortly after her release, saying Saturday(April 1) she had been repeatedly threatened.”
http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?idq=/ff/story/0001/20060401/1625554090.htm&floc=NW_1-T
April 2nd, 2006 at 7:00 am
This is better link :
http://www.csmonitor.com/earlyed/earlyWO0331a.html