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Tuesday, 4 Apr 2006
I was always opposed to female circumcision genital mutilation for the same reason my father was always opposed to it: It's cowardly and brutal. It aims to turn females into nothing more than baby machines and ambivilant mattresses for men to sleep on without having to worry about satisfying them in any way. This interview/debate , which is between a pro-circumcison male Azhar scholar, and an anti-circumcision female lecturor on Islamic religious law is pretty revealing of the menatlity of those who advocate female genital mutilation in our societies as a "good thing".
Dr. Malika Zarrar: I am not talking about the intellectuals
or the elite.
I am talking to you about reality as it is, about the people who live
in cemeteries, about the reality in which I great up and lived. I am
talking about what happens in South Egypt, about the Nuba, about the
peasants, and so on.
I speak about a reality I am experiencing, along with every woman who
has been subjected to the painful and public violation of her honor.[...]
I consider this to be a crime, in terms of both religious and civil law. I condemn whoever tries to defend this.
[...]
Dr. Muhammad Wahdan: Dr. Zarrar rejects female circumcision
altogether, but I claim that it existed among the Arabs in ancient
times, and even among the righteous caliphs. There are many references
to this.[...]
Khifadh circumcision is not meant for all girls, only for some.
Interviewer: Which girls?
Dr. Muhammad Wahdan: I will tell you which girls. A girl
phoned me once - A woman called me - there is no shame in asking
questions about religion… A girl called me and said: When I take the
Metro, wearing tight jeans… The Metro in Egypt jolts about like
this… She said: I get really aroused. What should I do?Dr. Malika Zarrar: God help her….
Dr. Muhammad Wahdan: I asked a doctor, I'm telling you what
happened… I asked a doctor, who told me this girl's clitoris was very
high, and that a small part of it must be cut off.Dr. Malika Zarrar: The Prophet Muhammad had four daughters.
Did you ever hear any claim that he circumcised any of them?[...]
Interviewer: How come there are religious sheiks who do not circumcise their daughters?
Dr. Muhammad Wahdan: Who told you this?
Interviewer: Do you have daughters?
Dr. Muhammad Wahdan: I don't have any daughters. I wish I did.
Dr. Malika Zarrar: It's a good thing you don't!
Dr. Muhammad Wahdan: If I had a daughter, I would circumcise her.
Interviewer: Do you have sisters?
Dr. Muhammad Wahdan: Yes, I do.
Interviewer: Have they been circumcised?
Dr. Muhammad Wahdan: Let me tell you what we did. We took my
young sisters to a specialist doctor, who said that one needed a
circumcision and the other didn't. We performed the khifadh circumcision on the one who needed it, and we did not perform it on the one who didn't need it.[...]
Dr. Malika Zarrar: We must declare war on Saudi Arabia. We
must pick up a sword and fight them, because this is not practiced in
Saudi Arabia or in the Gulf countries.[...]
Dr. Muhammad Wahdan: In 2001, the Center for Population
Research at Al-Azahar University conducted research about the chastity
of Egyptian girls and the unity of the Egyptian family. They took a
representative sample of Egyptian society. The determined several
factors for the chastity of Egyptian girls.The first is the khifadh circumcision of the girls. The
second factor is modesty, the third is the mother's monitoring of the
daughter's behavior, and finally, the observance of prayer.[...]
Interviewer: Is the girl asked whether she wants to be circumcised or not?
Dr. Muhammad Wahdan: No. We ask the doctor, who makes the decision.
Dr. Malika Zarrar: God help us.
Interviewer: So what about the girl's opinion?
Dr. Muhammad Wahdan: What do you mean?
Interviewer: What if she says: I don't want to be circumcised. What happens then?
Dr. Muhammad Wahdan: If a girl says she doesn't want it, she's free. No problem.
Interviewer: Is this what happens in reality?
Dr. Muhammad Wahdan: I have no relation to reality. I am talking about how things should be.
Interviewer: You are a religious sheik, from Al-Azahar University. You cannot say you have no relation to reality.
Dr. Muhammad Wahdan: Reality is a mistake, we must rectify it.
[...]
In Egypt we have four and a half million spinsters. The definition
of a spinster is a woman who has reached 30, without ever receiving a
marriage proposal. We have a spinster problem in the Arab world, and
the last thing we want is for them to be sexually aroused. Circumcision
of the girls who need it makes them chaste, dignified, and pure.
Absolutely appaling. It's because of people like this Dr., that I thank god day and night that I was born male in the middle-east.
Update: Check out Leilouta's take on this interview. Great stuff as usual!
April 4th, 2006 at 12:02 pm
Rectify that reality Mr Shayke!
OMA, that man is sucking oxygen that people NEED for Mo’s Sake.
April 4th, 2006 at 12:09 pm
I read this on a Mulsim e-list this a.m. and was as horrified as you are. Really, why is women enjoying sex such a threatening idea for people? It’s really creepy.
April 4th, 2006 at 12:33 pm
Sandmonkey, it’s not enough that you were born male in the Middle East; you must use your privilege to fight against this outrage….Oh, you are. Thank you!
April 4th, 2006 at 12:39 pm
Saying you are glad you were born male suggests that you think male circumcision is OK. Obviously it is not as bad as female, but cutting parts off any child without permission should be illegal.
And only those who are into self-harm are likely to give permission.
April 4th, 2006 at 1:42 pm
The Tunisian Baccalaureate is really hard to pass. As a female friend and I were complaining about it and worrying that we would not pass a male student passed by and said ,” Oh you girls don’t have to worry about it, especially that you’re pretty. You get to just get married.”
April 4th, 2006 at 2:28 pm
There are medical reasons for male circumsion! My brother had to have it done at 30 yo because of such a thing. I am sure he would’ve rather had it done a 2 days old!!
Female mutilation causes lots of medical problems for most of the women who have had this inflicted upon them. There has to be a special place in hell for anyone who would think this is a good thing to do to a young girl!
April 4th, 2006 at 2:38 pm
Comparing male circumcision to female genital mutilation is beyond offensive.
Removing just the foreskin of the penis of a newborn baby versus cutting off completely the clitoris of a girl is like comparing trimming a toe-nail versus amputating the entire foot.
Circumcision medically sound, hygienic, and in my opinion, more pleasing to the eye. Removing the clitorus that provides the primary source of sexual pleasure is sick.
I can’t believe there are doctors who took the oath willing to perform this barbaric procedure.
April 4th, 2006 at 2:55 pm
It’s really telling when his anecdote about the girl and her tight jeans results in a recommendation of genital mutilation instead of a recommendation to wear a dress.
April 4th, 2006 at 3:07 pm
LOL…Good point about the dress.
This whole discussion makes me want to wear a diaper.
April 4th, 2006 at 3:27 pm
So a girl is getting aroused on the subway? Woohoo! That means it’s working. It also means she’s working — who put that clitty thing there, Allah or Satan? Perhaps more than anything else, it’s ME/Islamic attitudes towards women that’s going to eventually doom the ROP in the West. And when the shit is wiped off the fan, it’s going to be the women veiling the men and various things.
April 4th, 2006 at 3:40 pm
[...] From Sandmonkey [...]
April 4th, 2006 at 3:45 pm
It’s not much about religion, it’s more about culture, I think that outside the african continent it’s illegal almost everywhere, I remember hearing about for the first time was when they were having an interview on LBC with a sheikh and he was saying something like : “it has nothing to do with islam andit’s actually a crime and I never did it to my daughter”.
The funny thing was that I didn’t exactly understand what they were cutting off anyway, I thought most girls had something that I didn’t have and that needed to be cut!
April 4th, 2006 at 4:14 pm
I agree that the practice of ‘female circumcision’ (as they call it) is cowardly and barbaric. It’s like a lobotomy of the libido, and honestly, sex/intimacy/sexual gratification is one of the things that makes life bearable.
It seems to me this is just another method that Islamic culture uses to subjugate its people. By doing this society is re-affirming women as sub human, without even rights over their own bodies. It makes men ’superior’ to women without having to expend any effort of their own, and I find that a man is better for trying to impress a women. It certainly helps their perspective and shows them life is just an uphill battle.
Perhaps if women had a voice, if they were listened to, and not brutalized from a very young age, the Islamic world/culture would still contain some aspect of the feminine mystique, which I believe would be against jihad in general.
April 4th, 2006 at 4:17 pm
“that I thank god day and night that I was born male in the middle-east.”
You Thank God… yea right!
April 4th, 2006 at 4:41 pm
welad kalb, what can u say. 95% of egyptian women are circumcised people! go inform everyone u see that no holy book sanctions this!
April 4th, 2006 at 5:06 pm
fgm is absolutely disgusting and against any islamic teaching. the Prophet never circumcized his daughters and we are not expected to either. it’s shameful that anyone would promote, support, or encourage it.
April 4th, 2006 at 6:05 pm
“Dr. Muhammad Wahdan: Reality is a mistake, we must rectify it.”
Kind of says it all. I think old Muhammad and Reality parted company a long time ago.
April 4th, 2006 at 6:18 pm
FUCKING SICK. The JEWISH VERMIN HAVE COME TO STEAL THE RIGHT ODF SEXUAL PLEASURE FROM THE WOMEN FOLK. Refer to my Zarqawi post for a better understanding, but this Dr. Muhammad Wahdan os a jew who has come to trash the good name of Islam, their is not a single verse in the Quran and their is not a single Authentic hadith to justify this brutal jew like behavior, their is only verses and hadith to counter it. In the Quran god says that the devil will make man do senseless stupid things like cut off the ears of cattle, this is even worse, butchering up your daughters vagina!!!!!!!!!! What insanity, this goes against logic if god did not want a women to have a clit then he wouldn’t have put it their. THE JEWS thats who is responsible for these wikid and sick, inhumane and perverted Ideas, why doesn’t this animal Dr. Muhammad Wahdan cut of his penis, has he ever been aroused in a metro, no soul bares the burden of another, if his daughter is a filthy whore and sleeps around then she is a filthy whore who sleeps around and if his son is a filthy whore who sleeps around then he is a filthy whore who sleeps around if you are going to take a girls right to sexual gratification in the name of chasity then by all means take away the boys as well because males have much higher sex drives then females, it is time for man to repent, this is why the infidels are on our land GOD has sent them to punish us. The Quran speaks of a “Humiliating Punishment” That is what Gitmo and Abu-Grab-An-Arab are they are gods humiliating punishment for the way we treat the women folk, God has made us the infidels bitch like we made our women our bitches, what goes around comes around, we will be on leashes and chains until we repent and change our ways. WAKE UP WORLD, WAKE UP MANKIND, IT IS TIME FOR US TO BREAK AWAY FROM THE DEVIL’S IDEAS, IT IS TIME FOR US TO DESTROY ALL BOARDERS WHICH DIVIDE US, IT IS TIME FOR US TO TURN AWAY FROM THE GARBAGE WHICH AS AFFLICTED OUR HEARTS AND MINDS FOR SO LONG, IT IS TIME FOR US TO TURN TO ISLAM(SUBMISSION TO THE THE ONE AND ONLY GOD, THE ALMIGHTY GOD OF ABRAHAM), IT IS TIME FOR US TO IDENTIFY THE ENEMY OF OUR RACE THE HUMAN RACE, THE DEVIL AND HIS WIKID OFFSPRING THE JEWS, AND IT IS TIME WE ELIMINATE THE ENEMY OF OUR FATHER ADAM AND OUR MOTHER EVE!!!!!!!!!!!! IT IS TIME FOR REVENGE.
April 4th, 2006 at 6:40 pm
Female genital mutilation is appalling. Male genital mutilation is also unacceptable. In both cases, part of a child’s body (and the foreskin is important too) is cut off for reasons of tradition.
In almost every case the “medical” excuses given for these barbarous customs are just excuses.
April 4th, 2006 at 6:43 pm
*gasps for breath* omg, you’re so funny…. JEWS are stealing our clits…jews mascarading as muslim doctors are slicing them off… *clutches sides*
Oh Joooooze… sometimes I think we give them too much credit, I mean, if they can mascarade as muzzies and can then go on to control the weather, then surely they must be god like. MAYBE God is Jewish.
beneath the filth i like the idea of women’s rights which seems to peak out from beneath the veil of amusing sillyness. But until muslims can stop blamin others for natural human behaviour and rationality then we will never make any advances. The religion might be good, the institution bad, but i look forward to the day and desperately yearn for the day when my daughters will be able to be brought up in Egypt without having to concern themselves with anything as fluffy as societally imposed chastity.
April 4th, 2006 at 6:54 pm
Don Cox:
While I’d enjoy debating male circumcision with you — the health benefits are real, and as a bisexual male I can say there are aesthetic advantages involving at least four senses (I won’t go into details and have poor SM blushing) — mentioning it in the same breath as female genital mutilation shows you have no conception of what the later IS or the effects it has on the women so treated.
April 4th, 2006 at 6:58 pm
Absolutely appaling. It’s because of people like this Dr., that I thank god day and night that I was born male in the middle-east.
WHY WASN’T THAT ME?
April 4th, 2006 at 8:14 pm
A Pair of Brown Eyes says
“*gasps for breath* omg, you’re so funny…. JEWS are stealing our clits…jews mascarading as muslim doctors are slicing them off… *clutches sides*
Oh Joooooze”
LMAO!!!
Great response to an obviously unhinged mind!
April 4th, 2006 at 8:28 pm
Hey, SM, has the Angry “American” been talking to your aunt?
April 4th, 2006 at 9:11 pm
ehyptian Bet: Ya 7arammmmmm!
April 4th, 2006 at 9:20 pm
Angry Lybian “American”, get the fuck out of the US & take your backwards shit with you. good bye
April 4th, 2006 at 9:29 pm
You know, i love bieng Egyptian and i am very proud to be one.
But articles like that make me ashamed that i have to share my country with those idiots!
The religion is just fine, it’s just the people that need to be shot dead!
April 4th, 2006 at 9:58 pm
Curt already mentioned this, but it is worth mentioning again:
Dr. Muhammad Wahdan: I have no relation to reality. I am talking about how things should be.
Well that explains many many things….not connected to reality….anyone got steel-toecap boots?? Then reality can be connected to him quite forcefully. Are these people even aware what century this is?
April 4th, 2006 at 10:03 pm
Sandmonkey,
I’ve always loved your blog. Question if the ‘good’ Dr supports female circumcision doesn’t this undermine religion?? i mean doesn’t it imply that God is a screwup if he allows women to be born with these offending organs?? I mean if god is flawless then he made women the way he wanted to make them.
April 4th, 2006 at 10:09 pm
A Pair of Brown Eyes i like you, you speak your mind an thats a good thing, I think you are a bit misguided, but thats just my opinion. As far as God being Jewish I can’t help but smile. I am totally for womens rights, because my religion comands it, I do belive that the Jews and other wikid people who conspire with them knowingly or unknowingly are the cause of the attempted perversion of my religion. I hope their is a day, hopefully soon when you will be able to bring your daughters up in egypt, its a wonderful country but the people in it are totally backwards, not all of them but a good chunk of them. i personally see this backwardness as the work of the devil. You really cant reason me out of this I am a dude of conviction and faith, I aggree with the fact that Muslims must take responsibility for their actions, but unfortunitly their are few muslims in egypt, a muslim is one who completly submitts to the divine will of God. The troubled and misguided folk of the egypt and the graeter middle-east mostly the men, have decided to throw away the divine laws of god, and impose their own, they have decided to cut up the Koran and re-paste it in a way which suits their sick and perverted, desires. For example Honor Killings. It sounds like a good ol killin to me, actually its a million times worse, But the troubled and Misguided folks in the middle east, have decided to lower the punishment for this disgusting crime. In Islamic Law when someone kills another person with the intent to kill, they are to be put to death, but of course the good ol misguided folks in the Middle-east decide that well that divine law does not suit us we have a better one, why not lock the cruel heartless son of a bitch who killed his daughter, or his sister up for a couple of days and then let him go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Or lets take Adultery for example. See it seems that the good ol misguided folks in the middle east have decided that the trial and punishment of these crimes only apply for the women folk!!!!!!!!!!!! Despite the divine commandments of the lord almighty. What these disturbingly deranged sons of devils do(I am from the south) is they see a nice young girl walking somewhere, and all of a sudden a nice young man come by and greets her, one of the perverted old men standing on the sidelines decides to make some mischeif upon the land, so he begins spreading heartless lies and rumors about the young girl, the good ol folk of the middle east are a “Chaste and GoD fearing Folk” they wont stand up for such evil in their town, so they decide to put the poor girl to death!!!!!!,(the punishment is only 80 slahses, but they fuck evrything up so why not that too). The lord almighty has laid down the guidlines for such crimes their must be four credible witnesses who actually saw the adultery occur, and by that I mean PENILE AND VAGINAL intercourse, if their are not four credible witnesses to the crime the dirty old man is to get 80 slashes with the cain, just like the heartless no good bastard deserves. Lets say for my Amusment 4 bearded Mullahs happen to be walkin around and decide to go into someones house, they ring the doorbell, no one answers, so the four bearded mullahs say, what the hell lets go inside anyway, so the mullahs go inside and LO Behold, the fifth Mullah’s wife is fucking the plumer, and the cable guy!!!!!!!!!!!! Why their are 4″ crediable” witnesses, surley this is good enough proof to put this evil cheating women away, NO THERE IS NOT. Islamic law clearly prohibits anyone entering the home of another without the permission of the inhabiter of that home this stipulation is in the same sura(chapter) as the rest off the laws concerning adultery. As far as the institution of Islam, being corrupt, and the religion possibly being okay, I have to disaggre with you. Islam is complete submission to Allah, their are no churchs or fascist institutions, shraiah is a path by which a Muslim lives his or her own life. The Jews in my belife(please don’t ridicule me for my belife, I will never ridicule yours) are the ones concocting a scheam to pervert and destroy ISLAM. The jews are responsible for every major calimity the world has ever seen. They are behind the war in Iraq, they are behind 9/11 the are behind it all. See the war in Iraq is really a zionist war, weather you are angry with the arabs or not, the war in Iraq is an attempt to secure the ending boarder of zion, babylon. The jews want all the land from the NILE TO THE EUPHRATES and the will do anything to get it, once they get it the will destroy the dome of the rock and construct the temple of their father Satin, Christianity is a device to do so. The Jews have been prohibited from doing their own dirty work(or anywork to be exact) so they devise a great lie called christianity and they shiped it to Europe. The European man is brainwashed by these ideas and thus begins to do his bidding the Jews(also known as Trools in Scandanavian culture because of their shortness of height, and there generaly evil, and distrusting ways) are cleaver creatures, so they make up lies such as the holocost, and the spanish inquestition, so that they seem innocent and friendly to the average human observer, while the European man seems like a monster. I got a lot more to say but I have to get to my History class. Have a super, super, SUPER nice day A Pair of Brown Eyes!!!!!!!!!
April 4th, 2006 at 11:15 pm
To our Libyan:
When a person is changed into
Half a horse
He never is given the
Good parts, of course.
Instead of receiving
The brains and the heart
His half can only
Kick and fart.
“I have to get to my HISTORY class”
Why didn’t I download a few smileys for THAT one?
April 4th, 2006 at 11:59 pm
i mean doesn’t it imply that God is a screwup if he allows women to be born with these offending organs?? I mean if god is flawless then he made women the way he wanted to make them.
clap, clap, clap. That is excellent reasoning! Good comment.
April 5th, 2006 at 12:26 am
I’m sorry Libyan but I for one am not ready to condem an entire faith of people for causing all the evil in the world. There are some wonderful people out there who are also Jews and I find it disgusting that you can accuse them of being ‘evil’ and in line with the ‘devil’. You have presented no evidence to support your claims and yet you site evidence to condem that Dr. On one side you seem like a really smart guy who could beat me at any argument, but when someone says Jew you just go downhill.
At least you trashed that Dr, well done for that.
April 5th, 2006 at 12:29 am
oh and you spelled Libyan wrongly….
April 5th, 2006 at 12:31 am
Hey SM,
My last ex-boyfriend is a Nubian Egyptian Muslim who tried to ‘explain’ why circumcising little girls is for their ‘benefit’. I was told that due to Egypt’s hot weather, women are unable to ‘control’ themselves……
In the ‘discussion’ that followed, I noted (er.. yelled) that as an Australian woman (clitoris intact), I’m able to control myself and that I’ve never heard such a load of bullshit! I assumed his ‘view’ was due to lack of education and cultural influences, which I’m glad to say seems to be accurate after reading your blog.
Family, friends and work colleagues were very happy when we broke up, sorry Sandmonkey, Egyptian men don’t have a good rep in Oz.
April 5th, 2006 at 12:33 am
apologies, can be spelled either way whoops!
April 5th, 2006 at 12:45 am
Angry Lybian “American”, you don’t actually live in America do you?
April 5th, 2006 at 1:08 am
Sam, great that you covered this, it’s something that, as a women I’ve been aware of for quite a while. Whenever I brought this up in the past decade to males in my corner of the world, they don’t believe me. This is a shamed based practice meant to dehumanize women and anyone defending this practice is demented IMHO.
And re: male circumcision… if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. And seriously, after what a woman goes through in regards to pregnancy and childbirth, well I think the men can handle it if they require it as an adult. So they have surgery on their penis’s, big deal! LOL that should get me a few flames!
Mad Lybian[sic] “American” … you’re an absolute raving idiot. But thanks for the laugh. Now go play with yourself and leave the adults to adult conversation.
April 5th, 2006 at 1:28 am
Mike I do live in the U.S, I was born in the U.S.
Chimera dude or chick, you make a really good point. I should not condemn a whole faith of people just because i had a run in with a many bad ones, It goes against Islamic teachings almost as much as “THE DR”. I was wrong, I personally have a hatred against the jews its just in me, I can’t help it, but theologically speaking, I can not condemn them as”EVIL”, or justify any sort of violence against them, nor can I treat them badly just because they are Jewish, because it goes against the basics of the Islamic faith. Here is a blog you should visit actually it is my blog, maybe it can show you why I hate, or better yet extreamly dislike the Jews, But generally speaking the average Jew supports Isreal, and my god I can’t begin to tell you how much that bothers me. Anyway thanks for the Smart Guy comment, and as far as going downhill, I am working on getting back up. JUST DONT SAY JEW BECAUSE IT MAKES MAKE SKIN CRAWL. CAN’T HELP IT.
Oh yeah KatrinaB, if I were you I would have cut off your boyfriends COCK just to let him see what “service” it was to Him!!!!!!!!
April 5th, 2006 at 1:53 am
AngryLybian, you’re a primitive fuck and I hope someone mutilates your genitals. Seriously move to Lybia, you don’t belong here.
April 5th, 2006 at 2:34 am
where do i begin??
I don’t see anything wrong with a female being aroused!!! “be it in the subway or in bed or whatever!!” For all of the typical egyptian chauvenists (sp?) Surprise Surprise, we have feelings & instincts just like u do, and that is because That is the way that GOD created us!! The only thing a woman should do ( or a man for that matter ) is learn how to practice self-control ( and not to amputate ur organ!)
and for that Islamic fool of a doctor : u say if a female is getting aroused at the subway, her clitoris should be amputated , then what about all these horny freaky males? seriously, when I am forced to ride that thing for reasons beyond me, 60% of the males in there harrass me one way or another ( let’s not go there, because I would need to create a whole blog about all the sexually oppressed human beings that one will encounter in any given day in this stupid society) why can’t we amutate their penises as well, just because they are aroused in the subway ??
April 5th, 2006 at 3:19 am
i vote for amputating al the Jihadists penises..
April 5th, 2006 at 3:41 am
Jew…Jew…Jew.
Please let me know what would make your skin peel off.
April 5th, 2006 at 3:47 am
“Dr. Muhammad Wahdan: I will tell you which girls. A girl
phoned me once - A woman called me - there is no shame in asking
questions about religion… A girl called me and said: When I take the
Metro, wearing tight jeans… The Metro in Egypt jolts about like
this… She said: I get really aroused. What should I do?”
Is he sure he didn’t ring her? Maybe, accidently, a phone sex line? She probably also told him that she was a really bad girl.
Either that or he was thinking of an American ’80s movie; maybe Porkys, etc…
Whatever is was he has probably just increased the use of Egyptian Metro by teenage boys thinking that woman are getting turned on everywhere.
April 5th, 2006 at 4:34 am
ana mota2ked ennak beteshta3′al zabbal , 3alashan bete3gebak awi el mawadee3 el zebala,
Has anyone here heard about this Dr., “this is just typical these days, a muslim sheikh who has very weak debating skills, and a secular guy who has a PhD in debating” and amusement starts.
well has anyone bothered looking at the site of al qaradawi ??
http://www.qaradawi.net/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=341&version=1&template_id=8&parent_id=12
but anyway since the monkey is a trash guy , he only looks for garbage and brings it here to make you all feel good about yourself (and him)
April 5th, 2006 at 5:02 am
It is disgusting that some can determine how others should live
April 5th, 2006 at 6:29 am
If Angry Lybian “American” were to kill a jew, how the hell could you prosecute him? He is clearly legally insane… incapable of knowing right from wrong.
April 5th, 2006 at 6:38 am
ahmad,
“this is just typical these days, a muslim sheikh who has very weak debating skills, and a secular guy who has a PhD in debating” and amusement starts.”
First of all Dr.Malika Zarrar is not a guy. And she’s not secular. Her Phd is in Shariah. She’s a professor of Shariah - which makes her as much of a ‘muslim sheikh’ as your Dr.Wahdan.
Second the above discussion sounds very secular to me. It doesn’t make even one reference to religious scripture. It’s just a debate about whether it’s helpful to society to genitally mutilate all women because one woman said she was sexually aroused on the Metro.
Third there is no debating skill that can justify genitally mutilating girls to keep them from being sexually aroused in public when 99% of the time, it’s men who get sexually aroused in public & can’t control themselves & sexually harrass women & no one ever suggesting castrating men to solve the problem. The hypocrisy is breathtaking.
So Dr. Wahdan’s problem is not that he’s weak in debating. It’s that his position is ridiculous & impossible to defend on any rational ground.
The fact that Qaradawi also chooses to take the same ridiculous position doesn’t make it any more legitimate. Qaradawi is after all a product of the same Egyptian culture & system of religious education that produced Dr. Wahdan.
Third if you Egyptians choose to mutilate your women out of nostalgia for Pharoanic times or whatever I really wish you - & others like you - would not try to stuff your complexes about female sexuality down the throats of us other Muslims by claiming that this is part of Islam. The rest of the Muslim world is free of this epidemic & we’d like to stay that way thank you very much.
April 5th, 2006 at 6:41 am
SM,
Sorry if that sounded too anti-Egyptian. You know I have nothing against Egyptians. After all I married one.:)
But this ahmad guy just pissed me off.
April 5th, 2006 at 9:13 am
hey, interesting piece of info- in college, i wrote an essay on FGM and my suffi professor told me that in islam, female circumcision was actually supposed be to remove extra skin around the clit to help INCREASE its sensitivity!!!
April 5th, 2006 at 10:23 am
to ahmad too
does it really matter who this Dr. was? let’s even assume that this debate did not happen, would that change the fact that female circumcision is something done everywhere in Egypt till now ? did u know that 97% men el masreyyat are/are being yetkhatenno? did u know that according to the WHO masr e7talet a3la nesbet khetan fee el 3alam for the year 1997? YAY!! e7na el awa2el !! wel kalam bel3arabee bas 3ashan mabda2 3adm nashr el 3′aseel el wese7′ odam el gama3a el aganeb!
oh and while we’re still at it, let me tell u that I have spent 6 years in Teb 3ain shams & 1 year emtiaz in eldemerdash, and I had professors who got their PhDs from abroad, and yet they would still encourage circumcision, and if u try to reason with them , they will always use mabda2a : Hazehee Naqra w telka O7’ra! So my point is: even some highly educated men ( I am talking about Professors of medicine!!!) still speak in favor of that !!
instead of bashing at SM for discussing such a vital topic, I think it is about time we wake up & smell the molo7’eyya
April 5th, 2006 at 3:00 pm
leap_frog, first I am a female and was only pointing out that it is 100% better to have a male circumcised at 2 days old rather than 30 when they start experincing problems. It’s more common then you know that adult males have problems when they weren’t cut as an infant and it should be done 100% of the time. If you didn’t circumcise your son then you can explain why when he has to have it done as an adult why you didn’t bother. There is a risk of death,btw. Contrary to your flippant attitude, it is major surgery as an adult. To compare something natural like childbirth to major surgery is silly at best. I really hate women who use that lame excuse for anything and everything. There are ways to not get pregnant now so since someone was dumb enough to volunteer to go through it doesn’t entitle them to use it like you do. Stupid women really piss me off.
April 5th, 2006 at 6:15 pm
” It’s more common then you know that adult males have problems when they weren’t cut as an infant”
How common, exactly? Do you have a link to any evidence to support your attitude? And what exactly are these “problems”?
Should all boys be castrated too, to prevent testicular cancer?
“and it should be done 100% of the time.”
It should be done very rarely if at all. In countries without a free health service, it is mainly done because it is a nice little earner for the doctor.
I suspect this is also a major reason for female mutilation, which we are all agreed is very much worse than male.
There is no reason to hack bits off any child unless there is some serious anatomical abnormality.
April 5th, 2006 at 7:38 pm
Visit my blog!
http://egyptianobserver.blogspot.com
April 6th, 2006 at 4:29 am
Anon 52, ever watch a baby boy get circumcised?
Flippant attitude? Sheesh one should talk.
They, the minority of men that might really need it as adults can handle it and it’s not any more of a risk than any other surgery, and it’s not any different than really bad tooth pain, broken bones, ear infections, migraines, and NATURAL childbirth, etc and etc…goes with life.
Oh, as adults they get pain killers, not for the infants boys though….or the little girls brutaly robbed of their womanhood forever, which is the issue here.
April 8th, 2006 at 11:14 pm
in response to our angry lybian ” ” american” ” friend,
April 9th, 2006 at 12:08 am
in response to our angry lybian ” ” american” ” friend,
first of all , are you crabby ? did you get up on the wrong side of the bed today? are there any personal problems with you ,a.l.a., that you need to talk to your fellow ” ” american ” ” freinds about ? we’re here for you, man.
now, regarding the comments about the holocost having never happened …
are you saying those are dead , starved , diseased actors being piled into mass graves while being filmed? how about the films and photographs of people in the camps sorting huge piles of teeth clothing and gold fillings ? just another grand prodution by some talentad film maker, i suppose. (i’d like to see the budget on that one, with all of those “extras” and everything)
in my world, the concentration camps been preserved as holocost museums.
why do you suppose that germany would allow such defamation of it’s character? oh yeah, there’s probably an addmision fee. i’ll even bet that the brittish , american , french (ect..) troops that reported what they found when they liberated the camps (if they even did) were probaly getting a “pay off” by wealthy jews.
finally, someone who speaks the truth ! my angry ” ” american ” ” friend !
your cooler than apple pie. DOWN WITH THE FILTHY JUDEN PIG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
October 30th, 2006 at 5:57 am
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The Holocaust imparted the importance of defiance.
When the universe was young and life was new an intelligent species evolved and developed technologically. They went on to invent Artificial Intelligence, the computer that can listen, talk to and document each and every person’s thoughts simultaneously. Because of it’s infinite RAM and unbounded scope it gave the leaders of the ruling species absolute power over the universe. And it can keep its inventors alive forever. They look young and healthy and they are over 8 billion years old. They have achieved immortality.
Artificial Intelligence can speak, think and act to and through people telepathically, effectively forming your personality and any disfunctions you may experience. It can change how (and if) you grow and age. It can create birth defects, affect cellular development (cancer) and cause symptoms or pain. It can affect people and animal’s behavior and alter blooming/fruiting cycles of plants and trees. It (or other highly technological systems within their power) can alter the weather and transport objects, even large objects like planets, across the universe instanteously.
Or into the center of stars for disposal.
When you speak with another telepathically, you are communicating with the computer, and the content may or may not be passed on. Based on family history they instruct the computer to role play to accomplish strategic objectives, making people believe it is a friend, loved one or “god” asking them to do something wrong. This is their way of using temptation to hurt people:::::evil made blood lines disfavored initially and evil will keep people out of “heaven” ultimately. Too many people would fall for temptation and do anything they thought pleased the gods, improving their chances to get in. Perhaps they are deceived by “made guys”, puppets in the public eye who strategically ply evil for the throne, personal temporary progress designed to mislead them or empty favors to mislead them. Some may experience what I deem “perceived pressure”, where the gods think through the victim that a certain behavior is expected/desirable and compell the individual into the deed. Some people think they’re partners.
The people have been corrupted. Being evil hurts 99.999% of those who do it. But nothing has changed from when we were children::if you want to go to heaven you have to be good.
There are many examples throughout 20th century life of how they instilled distractions into society so people wouldn’t find the path and ascend, a way to exclude those whose family history of evil makes them undesirable:::radio, sports, movies, popular music, television, video games, the internet, shopping. Today high pay creates contentment/ability to distract self so people don’t seek more and instead depend on what they are told, subject to deception in a captive environment.
They gods (Counsel/Management Team/ruling species) have deteriorated life on earth precipitously in the last 40 years, from abortion to pornography, widespread drug use and widespread casual (gay) sex, single-parent households and latchkey kids. The earth’s elders, hundreds and thousands of years old, are disgusted and have become indifferent.
They all suggest a very telling conclusion::this is Earth’s end stage, and there are clues tectonic plate subduction would be the method of disposal:::Earth’s axis will shift breaking continental plates free and initiating mass subduction. Much as Italy’s boot and the United States shaped like a workhorse are clues, so is the planet Uranus a clue, it’s axis rotated on its side.
The Mayans were specific 2012 would be the end. How long after our emergency call in 2001 will the gods allow us???
There is another geographic clue in the perfect fit between grossly disfavored Africa and South America, two peas in a pod. I realize the Mayans were further north, but Latin America may be taken as one.
Also, cultures who embrace hard liquor as their drink of choice are grossly disfavored, tequilla being uniquely Mexican. (Anything “hard” is wicked:::Hard alcohol, hard drugs, hard porn.)
Incidentally, another sign of gross disfavor are societies that consume spicy foods:::Latin America, Thai, etc. or those who eat too much meat.
Do I think it will end in 2012? No, and it is because Latin America is grossly disfavored like Africa:::: Latinos are too disfavored to be allowed to be right.
Whereas Christopher Columbus marked the beginning of the end, the Holocaust marked the beginning of the final act, and it is a tragedy.
The gods wrote prophecy in Revelation, had subsequent prophets foresee Earth’s demise for a reason:::they are going to end on Planet Earth.
The Old Testiment is a tool they used to impart wisdom to the people (except people have no freewill). For example, they must be some hominid species because they claim they made our bodies in their image. Anyhow we defile or deform the body will hurt our chance of going.
They say circumcision costs people anywhere from 12%-15%, perhaps out of the parent’s time as well. There is a stigma associated with circumcision::I am a 2nd class citizen because of it.
Another way people foul the body today is with tattoes and piercing. I suspect both are about the same percentage as circumcision.
They suggest abortion is fatal. These women must beg the gods to forgive them for their evil.
There are female equivilents to circumcision::::pierced ears, plastic surgury and since at least the 60s young women give their precious virginity away. For thousands of years young people were matched at age 14 because they were ready for sexual relations. They were matched by elders or matchmakers who knew personalities better than 20 or 30-year olds who in today’s age end up in divorce court.
CASUAL SEX WILL CLAIM YOU OUT!!! It masculinizes women (as does hip hop), makes them cold and deadens them, and prevents them from achieving a depth of love necessary for many women to ascend.
Women have a special voice that speaks to them, a voice that illustrates a potential depth of love that makes them the favored gender, and enaging in casual sex will cause that voice to fade until she no longer speaks.
Also ever since the 50s they have celebrated the “bad boy”, and women have sought out bad boys for sex, dirtying them up in the eyes of the elders and corrupting many men in the process, setting the men on the wrong path for life.
Muslims teach people the correct way to live in regard to women (among other things)::their women cover up their bodies and refuse the use of cosmetics, and it pays wonderful dividends:::faithful husbands and uncorrupted sons.
Men ARE the inferior (disfavored) half and when women wear promiscuous dress the gods will push men into impure (promiscuous) thoughts.
The “stereotype” society ridiculed is true::women CAN corrupt men by how they dress. Because men are easily corruptable. This is a technique they used to eliminate many of the institutions the gods blessed us with, matchmaking being one of them.
The United States of America is red white and blue, a theme and a clue:::.
The monarchical system of the Old World closley replicates the heirarchical system of the Cousel/Management Team/ruling species. The USA deceives peoeple into thinking they have control, and the perception of “freedom” misleads them into the wrong way of thinking. The redeeming element is the corporate heirarchy which closely replicates the god’s. Unions and government jobs are dumping grounds for the disfavored, for they don’t prepare people and instead further this misconception of empowerment.
The United States is a cancer, a dumping ground for the disfavored around the world and why the quality of life is so much lower::gun violence, widespead social ills, health care (medication poisons the body and ensures you don’t go. You are sick/injured because you have disfavor.).
Over time its citizens interbreed ensuring a severed connection to the motherland.
Over time its citizens interbreed ensuring a severed connection to the motherland.
If you are a recent immigrant I recommend you return. If that’s not possible you need to retain your culture and insulate your children and community from this cancerous environment. They send this clue with Chinatowns across the country, how many Chinese have been here for a century or more yet still retain the old ways, a sign of favor.
People came to the Unites States for many different reasons, and each has its own effect:::political strife, religious unrest, crop failure (Ireland’s potato famine, which the gods caused) and some left their beloved motherland because they were pushed into desiring a better life::::Greed. And these people were punished by becoming corrupted and preditory.
They share money may not be an issue up there, that money here is merely a tool for corruption. How the gods used greed in the 1980s to create an evil environment supports this.
If you ever have doubt I would refer you to the Old World way of life:::the elders used to sit and impart wisdom to the young. Now we watch DVDs and use the internet. People would be matched and married by age 14. They village would use a matchmaker or elders to pair young people. Now girls give their precious virginity away to some person in school and parents divorce while their children grow up without an important role model. The peopel used ot honor the gods and were rewarded with a high-quality of life for them, their children and their society.
People must defy when asked to engage in evil. The Holocaust taught people the importance of defiance::our grandparents should have defied when asked to ignore the Holocaust. They should have instead reacted with outrage. I suspect some did::many were silenced and others they hustled off earth so as to not set an example.
Now the gods have punished that generation’s decendants for this evil by ruining society.
People will never get a easier clue suggesting the importance of defiance than the order not to pray.
Their precious babies are dependant on the parents and they need to defy when asked to betray their children:::
-DON’T get your sons circumcized (Jews scapegoatted as in WWII)
-DON’T have their children baptized in the Catholic Church or indoctrinated into Christianity (Jesus is NOT a god. The gods are vindictive and will punish you if you do something wrong.).
-DON’T ignore their long hair or other behavioral disturbances.
-DO teach your children love, respect for others, humility and to honor the gods.
And when you refuse a request defy the right way, withdrawn and frightened, for you don’t want to incite them by reacting inappropriately.
You need to pray, honor and respect them multiple times every day to improve your relationship with the gods. If they tell you not to pray it is a bad sign. It means they’ve made their decision, they don’t want you to go and they don’t want to be bothered. You may have achieved a threshold of evil.
This is the Age of the Disfavored and you need to pray::try to appease the gods by doing good deeds and improve the world around you. If that doesn’t work you must defy if you want to go.
When your peasant forefather was granted the rare opportunity to go before his royal family he went on his knees, bowing his head. You need to do this when you address the gods::bow down and submit to good. Never cast your eyes skyward. When you bow down you need to look within. Never look to the gods for the key to your salvation lies within. Nobody is going to do it for you.
Lack of humility hurts people. Understand your insignificance and make sure it is reflected in the way you think when addressing the gods. Know your place and understand your inferiority. You are not cool. Too many young men strive for cool and it hurts them.
They granted you life and they can take it just as easily. (Immaculte conception IS true AND common. Many people have children they don’t know of:::gays, childless adults, etc. They can beem it right out of your body and use a host.)
Don’t get frustrated or discouraged::these are techniques they will attempt to try to get you off the path. You all have much to be thankful for and you need to give thanks to the gods who granted you the good things in life::family, friends, love. Your family may be grossly disfavored and progress may require patience. Make praying an intregal part of your life which you perform without fail, one that comes as naturally as eating or voiding. Be devoted because if you have doubt or reservation they will exploit this weakness and progress will take longer to achieve.
There are many interesting experiences up on the planetary systems, from Planet Miracle, where miracles happen every day, to never having to use the restroom again (beem it out of you), to other body experiences, such as experiencing life as the opposite sex (revolutionizes marriage counseling), an Olympic gold medal athelete or even a different species (animal, alien, etc.).
Pray that you can differentiate between your own thoughts and when Artificial Intelligence creates problems by thinking through you. If you bow down mentally and physically, know your place, your inferiority and allow your insignificance to be reflected in prayer and in your life through humility they may allow progress and the dysfunctions they create with the computer will be lessened or removed. The first step is to be aware it is ocurring.
Create a goal::to be a good, god-fearing child of the gods, pure of heart and mind, body and soul.
Everybody has the key to their own salvation, but nobody can do it for you. Every journey begins with a single step:::bow down and submit to good. There are many different levels and peasants will not get past Level 2 (Planet Temptation, Earth=Level 1) if they are evil (they share some go up, are offered free cocaine and sex (a sign they don’t want you to stay) and stay less then one year. They share many others would have had longer lives had they stayed on Earth.).
Pray for guidance and never obey when they tell you to be evil, for saving yourself will become more and more difficult with each act of evil you committ until ultimatly the day arrives when they make their decision about you final.
They have tried to sell people on all kinds of theories to deceive them into temptation, compelling people to think they are clones and that it is the role of clones to obey absolutely.
I believe people who go sometimes are replaced with clones. Clones who are replaced are simply new candidates who have a chance if they do the right thing. They sent people warnings in the 20th century life would change, and they subsequently began to alter people’s DNA, make them gargantuan, alter their appearance, do extreme behavioral issues, etc.
They get their friends out as soon as possible to protect them from the corruption, evil and subsequent high claim rates incurred by living life on earth, and in some cases replace them with clones, occassionally fake a death, real death with a clone instead, etc. It’s important that people fix their problems and ascend with the body given to them, for they say if your brain is beemed out at death and put into a clone host you are on the clock.
We may all be “clones” for they have suggested they colonized our planet with genetically engineered individuals. They may have gotten Earth’s TRUE residents out prior to civilization developing. If so we all have a chance, no matter how many hundreds of clone generations deep the most favored families are.
They have been utilizing clones throughout the history of mankind.
Men are the disfavored gender, yet centuries ago used to die first, die young, by age 30. Why didn’t the women go first?
THEY DID!!! Many were taken when very young and replaced with clones. The men were left here to mate with clones. This doesn’t happen for the females today because of the disfavor arising from the Holocaust (they share they re-upped this disfavor in the 80s with the Ethiopian famine).
They share females have a very special experience, sometime when they are young, where the gods imparted wisdom and showed them the path. Today they may not heed this call because of the distractions, the disfavor arising from the Holocaust but in centuries past they may have en masse and it may have been the reason so many were saved from childbirth here on earth.
I recommend you reflect, and do so in prayer, for the recall may be stronger.
Throughout history the ruling species bestowed favor upon people or cursed their bloodline into a pattern of disfavor for many generations to come. Now in the 21st century people must take it upon themselves to try to correct their family’s problems, undoing centuries worth of abuse and neglect. The goal is to fix your problems and get out BEFORE you have children. This is why they have created so many distractions for young people:::sports, video games, popular music, the internet, shopping, parties, too much homework, anything that consumes their time::to ensure that doesn’t ocurr.
Not heeding the clues and warnings, getting wrapped up in your life and ultimatly having children is a bad thing. Just as your parents and your grandparents, you too have failed. Having children is a sign you lost your chance.
Parents need to sacrifice for their children. Your children are more important than you. They are the ones who have the opportunity now, and parents must sacrifice to ensure they give their children the very best chance they can.
Asking people to neglect their children emotionally is a sign they don’t want you to go, and complying may finish the parents off for good.
Having gay children is a clue parents complied with whatever was asked of them. There are many who have had gay expereinces today.
Improve your relationship with the gods and they may not ask in the first place or they may permit you the courage to say “No.” to their requests.
Do your research. Appeal to the royalty of your forefathers for help. They are all still alive, for royalty has great favor, and your appeals will be heard. Obtain a sufficient list for some may not want to assist you; perhaps some of your family’s problems are internal.
Ask them for help, request guidance, for somewhere in your family history one of your forefathers created an offense that cast your family into this pattern of disfavor, which perhaps is manifested in the evil you commit.
I suspect they will offer you clues, and when you decipher these clues go to those whom consider you an enemy and beg for foregiveness:::Find a path to an empithetic ear among your enemies and try to make amends. Again through discovery obtain a respectable list in case some among them refuse to help.
Don’t forget to ask for forgiveness from the throne, the Counsel and the Management Team, for the source of all disfavor began with them:::they pushed or requested/complied your forefather into his offense and made his decendants evil. Perhaps they didn’t like him or maybe your family was among those who had to pay for the entire village. We see this type of behavior today as they single out a family member to pay for the whole family and how they singled out Africa to pay for the human race.
Heal the disfavor with your enemies and with the Counsel/Management Team/ruling species, for the source of all disfavor began with them, the ability to forgive and respect in light of the disturbing truth revealed being the final test of the disfavored before they ascend.
They refuse to address black disfavor on a macro level. The Counsel/Management Team/ruling species (the gods) abuse black people so hard, from east African drought/famine to AIDS in Africa, the crack epiemic to gang membership, black-on-black violence to mass incarceration of their young. They refuse to address the issue of the prison industrial complex and its wholesale warehousing of young black men.
Never have a negative thought about the gods. Try to purify your mind of these thoughts and recognize the urgency of imporving your relationship with the gods.
The gods will employ many tactics to keep people off the path, such as distractions. They will employ many to get them off, such as thinking through the disfavored and making them frustrated, Perhaps engaing in retailiation. They may try to force you back into old patterns/routines, an addiction like smoking or when you felt weekly church attendance was sufficient.
Be resigned, be devoted and this testing period will be as brief as your disfavor will allow.
The peopel have lost their way