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Wednesday, 12 Apr 2006
And my co-worker H. , yes, that H. , couldn't be happier that this finally happend . This is the same dude who called wahhabists the greatest people on earth and called the Shia infidels, and yet he is so very excited that Iran is "200 working houres away"- his information, not mine- from having nukes. I asked him what was so great about that, and he told me that it will bring some "balance of power" to the region. I asked him against whom, and he told me-of course- "Israel".
Ohh, those pesky Jews with their alleged posession of nuclear weapons. They have had them for year, and clearly, since they want us all dead and invaded, they chose not to use them against us, preferring that we die from old age and firghtend anticipation that they might use them against us in case we try to destroy them again. Very evil!
H. is happy though, despite acknoweldging that its very likely that Iran's crazy leader might just nuke Israel, and screw us (and Jordan, and Lebanon) in the process. He claims he is ok with that even if he dies, since he would die supporting the faith. I asked him if he was serious and meant what he said, and he said yes. So I informed him that I will have to kill him eventually, because not only does he have a personal death wish, he doesn't mind me dying in the process as well, and I have serious problems with that. Hell, if it's between me and a million of his kind, ehh, I will do the crazy selfish thing and chose me. He thought I was kidding. I am not.
I then asked him if we ignored and took Egypt out of the equation, what about the millions of palestinians that are bound to die as well in this glorious Iranian Jihady Holocaust? He supposidly- like the rest of the arabs- hates Israel for the fact that they opress and kill the palestinians, but, like, nuclearly whiping them out is ok as long as it's done by muslims and in the name of destroying Israel? He informed me that yes, it would be, because the palestinians would welcome it. They blow themselves up in order to kill the Israelis, so they surely would welcome dying if it means getting rid of the israelis. I told him "so, because 20 guys blow themselves up every year, you have concluded that the 6 million palestinians must all feel the same?", and apprently he believs this to be the case.
I informed him that he is a fool and an idiot, and that he is incredibly short sighted. If he thinks that the only implication of Iran having nuclear weapons was the whiping of Israel, then he is a moron. "There is more at stake here mr. wahhabists-are-great! There is a major Shia population in Bahrain, Lebanon, Iraq, hell, we even have a million in Egypt. What do you think will happen now? Do you think Saudi will just let that slide, having those they consider to be infidels to have nukes while they don't? You think the UAE is feeling safe? You think Bahrain will remain stable? You think the situation in Lebanon will improve? You think the Iranians won't try to incite this whole region? They already meddle in Iraq and Lebanon, how long till they start with the rest of the middle-east? You think, even if they didn't, that the sunnis will just be ok with growing Shia power? That they won't try to crush the Shia some more in order to prove that they still rule? You think this will lead to a war with Israel you moron? Israel is the excuse. It's always the excuse. We might have just seen the begining days of an upcoming Islamic civil war."
He thinks I am just being an alarmist, and maybe I am. But the truth is, the Shia in the middle-east, with the exception of Lebanon, and now Iraq, have been treated like crap from the sunnis all their lives. I am not stupid to make the incredibly dumb assertation that Mubarak did and say that their loyalties lie with Iran, but they definitely got a friend or at least an ally in that country. At least that's the image Iran will try to project. The muslim population might be happy that Iran has nukes because of their own inferioiry complexes by thinking that "muslims have a strong anti-US country now", but they fail to realize that them thinking that Iran is their friend and one of them is not the same view Iran has of them. Iran views every arab country, with the exception of Syria, with serious suspiciosn, mainly because our governments are more or less US-friendly. This is, if you recall, we arrested this guy who was working as a spy for Iran a year ago. We are sunnis. We are not to be trusted. Especially Egypt. Egypt, the first country that signed a peace agreement with Isarel; the country thatidentifies itself as the second only to Israel strongest US ally in the region; Egypt, the country that shelterd the Shah and his wife after they escaped from Iran; Egypt, the country of almost no Shia, and one that shares immediate borders- and trade relations- with Israel. They wouldn't bat an eye lash as the egyptian traitors die. We are screwed, and yet the majority of people are ecstatic over this news. It drives me nuts.
Morons!
sigh…
April 12th, 2006 at 10:27 am
frightening!
it is frightening to think that you have to work with a dude like H, and even more frightening to think that the dudes pushing the buttons, including the sad-excuse-for-a-human at the white house also thinks that way but with a twist (roles of bad guys and good guys reversed) …
give me an atheist with a brain any day!
April 12th, 2006 at 10:40 am
Another good post, Sandmonkey.
I’m extremely concerned about Iran’s nuclear programme and I don’t have much hope that there will be a non-military solution. The possible consequences of Iran acquiring nukes are unacceptable so, terrible though it may be, some sort of military intervention is likely to be the least bad option.
However, Israel has hinted that they have submarines capable of firing nuclear missiles independently of the existence of the State of Israel and surely the US will turn its own nuclear arsenal to face Iran and make it clear to them that that’s what they’re doing.
In the face of their own destruction, are the mad Mullahs of Iran really crazy enough to bomb Israel?
April 12th, 2006 at 10:44 am
Incidentally, which H? Your link doesn’t bring much enlightenment.
April 12th, 2006 at 10:53 am
Talking About Iran, Uranium, And The Upcoming War
The scariest thing about the conversation is that according to Sandmonkey, “a majority” of Egyptians think like his co-worker.
April 12th, 2006 at 11:20 am
“the majority of people are ecstatic over this news”
The people may be, but what about the gov’t?
April 12th, 2006 at 11:32 am
wHAT THE HECK IS THIS ALL ABOUT?
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/8505901E-C83C-460B-A4D3-FDF7DBF18911.htm
April 12th, 2006 at 1:13 pm
Nuclear weapons don’t bring a balance of power, but a balance of terror. Nuclear weapons are akin to taking whole cities hostage.
The United States won the race for nuclear weapons in WWII. By 1946 we proposed the Baruch Plan. Within one year of using nuclear weapons, smart people realized we needed to get rid of them.
The first sentence is critical, but many people might reject it because it’s also the title of an old western.
We are here to make a choice between the quick and the dead.
Nuclear weapons do have a deterrent effect, granted. But it’s the other effect nobody talks about which may get all of us killed.
Let’s say Iran has a hundred nuclear weapons in a hundred locations. There’s two ways to look at that. One, Iran is a mighty nation we shouldn’t attack. The other is, it’s only a hundred sites. If we use a surprise first strike with conventional or nuclear weapons we can destroy them in place before they have a chance to act. That’s what people should have learned from the Cold War, the incredible state of readiness for war, the advanced sensors of every kind to detect even the slightest signs of the other nation attacking.
But, no, of course not. Now everybody is touting the fact - sheer luck - the Cold War didn’t go nuclear. I say “sheer luck” because there were dozens of close calls. One was caused by A FLOCK OF CANADIAN GEESE flying into U.S. defense radar and confusing the operators. Another was a Soviet computer glitch. The list goes on and on.
Now imagine Israel and Iran staring at their defense radars. How long do you see that balance of terror lasting before one or the other succumbs to the terror and tries to end it decisively? In the case of Iran, Ahmadinejad, Rafsanjani, many others, and the clerics in Qom have already OK’ed a first strike on Israel to destroy it.
I don’t even like the fact the United States has nuclear weapons. But the fact is we got them first. It’s impossible to change that fact.
The only sensible thing to do is step back from the nuclear cliff before we fall off. It’s IMPOSSIBLE to do that when dozens of nations are trying to join the “nuclear club.” Who in their right mind would disarm when the other guy is arming up as fast as he can? Nobody, that’s who.
On the other hand, the notion the U.S. must be deterred, or that we can be deterred is ridiculous. We have too big of a head start. If we want to destroy Iran’s nuclear weapons all we need to do is listen to what THEY say about the use of nuclear weapons and blast them off the face of the Earth.
The only way to step back is to have agreements, inspections, overflights, military liasons moving back and forth from nation to nation. That’s what was beginning to happen at the end of the Cold War. Nothing, and I mean nothing, is more likely to cause a nuclear war than many nations acquiring them.
The world seems to assume the United States will just wait around for new nuclear powers to grow into massive nuclear powers without acting first. That’s a possibility, but I wouldn’t bet my life on it. And betting my life is what I’d be doing if I let a small nuclear power become a large nuclear power with long-range ICBM’s.
Iran needs to step back before it gets smacked down hard. If the U.S. fails to do it, I guarantee the Israelis will be forced to do it. Ahmadinejad has made that a certainty with his genocidal rhetoric.
April 12th, 2006 at 1:32 pm
iran with nukes = ww3
April 12th, 2006 at 3:35 pm
The money is on the Israli Air force resetting Irans nuclear programme if sanctions fail. Not that sanctions will fail of course. Sanctions are feared soooo much.
But if ,incredibly they did fail, then a few hundred 2000lb bombs will be winging their way over Iranian airspace. Bye Bye factory.
Difficulty will be damaging the programme without causing a Chernobyl.
The response will be pretty much immediate, and involve bombs. Lots of Bombs in Israeli shopping malls.
April 12th, 2006 at 4:07 pm
I wonder what kinds of back channels there are in the ME and whether Israel has told a few crown princes that Tel Aviv, Mecca, & Medina are a package deal.
April 12th, 2006 at 5:14 pm
Sandmonkey, once again I laud your standing in the face of complete idiocy.
H sounds like a card carrying member of the blindfolded arab community. Not only is he ok with throwing his own life away in the support of a goal he doesn’t really understand (and doesn’t really exist), he’s ok with taking millions of people with him - so long as Israel is destroyed.
I wish I had the same ability to get women to sleep with me as the people who control Islam do in getting their followers to believe their crap. I’d make a new record.
April 13th, 2006 at 1:47 am
Sandmonkey, your analysis of how Iran could eventually start to bully the Arab nations reminds me of a somewhat similar situation leading up to World War II. You might want to remind your friend about the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact signed between Russia and Germany in 1939. This was a non-aggression pact between Stalin and Hitler in which the leaders pledged not to attack each others countries while dividing up the rest of Europe into “spheres of influence” (i.e. slave states to be conquered by brute force.) Stalin thought he could trust Hitler, or at the very least he thought that Hitler would have to be a fool to attack Russia while fighting a war on its Western front.
Needless to say, Hitler didn’t feel any moral compunction about sticking a dagger through the treaty and attacking Russia once he thought he was winning on the Western front. The moral of the story: When you get in bed with a snake, don’t be surprised if you get bit.