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Monday, 17 Apr 2006
This is a must read .
Moneyshot:
So why is Islam an exception to using your brain? Why is it an
exception to thinking for yourself and judging how God expects us to
behave? Why is Islam an exception to question the disturbing Islamic
teachings, especially about what our attitudes are supposed to be
towards people from different countries, religions, or even about other
Muslims who don’t practice Islam the way these people are trying to
dictate- referring to them as “kafara” (atheists, nonbelievers,
destined for hell).Last Friday, at Friday prayer time, our
neighborhood mosque was flaring the Friday preaching on its speakers.
God knows who assigned the preacher, or what credentials he had to be
preaching to people in the first place? Was he really a sheikh? By
whose standards? According to whose teachings? How is someone declared
fit to recite preachings at Friday prayer anyway?This guy was
clearly uneducated, and judging by his accent, a fala7 (peasant)! Not
to mention, from the shit he was saying, he was completely disconnected
with the today’s world and today’s people, and hadn’t the faintest idea
about anything! Clueless. Definitely a graduate of the Predators’
Academy of Brainwashing. The perfect candidate: uneducated, ignorant,
naïve and plain stupid.This idiot loudly and audaciously claimed that:
1.
Parents should never let their teenage boys out of the house
unchaperoned. According to him, any teenage boys that are allowed out
without their parents’ supervision, will surely and indisputably do
drugs, and in turn, become a drug addict.
2. Not only this, but he will become a drug-addicted pervert who will rape his mother and sister.
3.
To top off this very enlightening speech, it sickens me to even repeat
what he said: “They will become like dogs and pigs, just like the Jews
and Christians.”Now I am neither Jew nor Christian, but I am a person who respects other people’s beliefs. I was profoundly offended.
Do
you know what the worst part of all was? People continued listening. No
one had the morality or guts to object and say, “Excuse me? Who allowed
you to preach? Are you teaching people to hate an fester disgust at
each other instead of love, kindness and giving? Shouldn’t you be
preaching about how each person can influence the world by good deeds-
to feed the hungry, charity to an orphanage, donating to the childrens’
cancer hospital, etc?Welcome to the world we live in. Welcome
to the new Muslim world; a world of ignorance, hatred, and intolerance;
a very sad, sick world.
April 17th, 2006 at 11:02 am
Another suicide mission in Tel Aviv
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4915868.stm
Btw, your blog heading has a problem. Fix it plz
April 17th, 2006 at 12:41 pm
It is very good news to know that some Muslims want things to be better.
It is very sad news that they seem to be so few.
It is very bad news that there is so little time left, and that most of us (in the West) can’t believe you anymore.
April 17th, 2006 at 1:31 pm
‘Alienated From Islam’
The take home message here is NOT ONLY that there are good Muslims and bad Muslims just as there are good people and bad people everywhere of all faiths, rather that such hate is being preached to so many gullible people at “neighborhood mosques” thr…
April 17th, 2006 at 2:16 pm
I think there is more of us moderates and open mined Egyptians hat we think. We are just so quiet and have different agendas for economic and social development. While conservative muslims have the same agenda and are too loud! At least i hope so!
We just need more of us to wake up, speek up and take action!
April 17th, 2006 at 2:18 pm
Hyscience….YES! That’s the PROBLEM, the “gullible people”…..the desperate people, so ready to be brainwashed, so lacking in a broad all-encompassing education, so weighed down by proverty and despair and dictator governments. And so, they are “gullible,” ready to think and act like the masses, open to the ‘horde’ mentality, being preached to by sick, intolerant, and to me, very UN-Islamic freaks.
Otherwise, what would make hordes of humans act so inhumane?
April 17th, 2006 at 2:23 pm
“so weighed down by proverty and despair and dictator governments.”
OK - that’s visibly true.
If that’s a root cause, how do we deal with that ?
April 17th, 2006 at 2:55 pm
It can’t be the root cause because we don’t have people in South America, as someone pointed out, flying planes into the buildins in the US and they have just as much angst and bad feelings against us.
Why can’t for ONCE poverty, despair and dictator governments be the root cause for people to rise against their own government rather than being cited as the root for attacking someone else’s country? hmmmmmm
When the stock market in the US crashed, we had plenty of poverty and despair.. we didn’t attack Europe because of it.
Russia had plenty of poverty and despair and a dictator communist government to boot, yet it was the government that we felt threatened by, no the general russian populace who, if memory serves, never hijacked planes and attacked, say, Alaska.
Plenty of poverty, despair and dictator governments in South America, but drugs seem to be their weapon of choice, if you can call it that. Mostly they just want to sneak across the border and work.
April 17th, 2006 at 2:59 pm
Elengil:
Call me lazy - I thought you’d say that - right on.
April 17th, 2006 at 3:27 pm
Do you know what the worst part of all was? People continued listening. No
one had the morality or guts to object
I agree with what Mumbo Jumbo has to say, but couldn’t he have taken his own advice and gone into the mosque to ask who the speaker was and why he was allowed to speak?
April 17th, 2006 at 3:48 pm
I have to admit.. if people at a local church were saying that kind of thing, not to mention had a history of using violence and beating the ever-living shite out of people, I don’t know if I’d have the guts to go in and contradict them either.
I admit. I would be very afraid.
But I guess until it happens, I just don’t know.
April 17th, 2006 at 3:57 pm
Easier to say what should be done than to do it. I don’t think I could have. Not in that kind of atmosphere.
Until the thirst for knowlege and understanding are present in a large portion of the general population the ME or portions may go down a dark and slippery slope. I hope this does not happen.
The ME has a history of science, math, and scholars. Muhammad ibn Musa Al-Khwarizmi, Abu-Bakr Muhammad ibn Zakariyya Ar-Raz, Abu-’Ali Al-Hasan ibn Al-Haytham to name a few. I hope it finds that light again.
April 17th, 2006 at 4:03 pm
The ME has a history of science, math, and scholars.
And murder, and murder, and murder, and more murder.
April 17th, 2006 at 4:46 pm
Sean Shalor: Oh, please. Name me one, just one part of the world where that isn’t true.
April 17th, 2006 at 4:52 pm
Beam, how about Antarctica? Though I could be wrong!
April 17th, 2006 at 4:54 pm
“Name me one, just one part of the world where that isn’t true.”
None of course - we humans invented it and Islam turned into a way of life (and death) sanctifying it when perpetrated on unbelievers.
Didn’t you know that ?
April 17th, 2006 at 4:55 pm
Tarnation - Ian just beat me to it. See how anxious we all are to help with your education Beam
April 17th, 2006 at 8:10 pm
I feel sorry for you guys, you are so ignorant and uneducated when it comes to Islam
April 17th, 2006 at 9:38 pm
BURN IN HELL COPTIC SCUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
April 17th, 2006 at 9:39 pm
ahmad dude, dont worry these copts, don’t even know whats in their own bible. Because if they did they would not say a word about ISLAM.
April 17th, 2006 at 10:56 pm
ahmad said:
“feel sorry for you guys, you are so ignorant and uneducated when it comes to Islam”
and then, AngryLibyan”American” Said:
“BURN IN HELL COPTIC SCUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
I guess AngryLibyan summed up what Islam is really all about!
April 18th, 2006 at 12:45 am
AngryLibyan”American” Says:
April 17th, 2006 at 9:38 pm
BURN IN HELL COPTIC SCUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh ok, well that solves that then, eh? Glad we got that cleared up, thanks.
April 18th, 2006 at 1:00 am
No Tommy, Angry Libyan doesn’t sum what islam’s really about, to me and (I think to any level headed person who’s reading this, if there is, which I doubt) Angry libyan is an ugly crazy s.o.b as much as you and Sean Shalor are.
By the way, angry libyan, how old are you kid, just couldn’t get of my mind the idea of a bored six year old during the summer (between kg2 and first grade) who’s just learnt how to use the phone, and spends his day with the maid’s five year old daughter teaching him how to make random prank calls full of profanities that he doesn’t know what they mean or how to pronounce, only to be caught by his mom who bitch slaps him while yelling at him in hysterical disbelief that those words could’ve come out of her precious baby’s mouth, and he runs crying to his room wondering what the hell did he do wrong.
Don’t know, couldn’t resist the analogy between the libyan kiddo and the bored six yr old, or this blog and the phone, or the maid’s daughter and whoever’s dictating him what he’s saying.
April 18th, 2006 at 1:32 am
Mohamed,
I know, I’m just giving some of these guys a hard time.
April 18th, 2006 at 7:33 am
Mohamed Speaks:
With his usual wisdom and moderation, reminding us that Islam IS a religion of peace.
“… is an ugly crazy s.o.b as much as you and Sean Shalor are” …
Thankyou brother for showing us the True Islamic Way
April 18th, 2006 at 2:44 pm
A long way to go.
April 18th, 2006 at 3:44 pm
Anon @ 7:33, is there any other description of a person who’s so casual with mass killing or using nukes as Sean Shalor or libyan kiddo are, than ugly crazy s.o.b, guide me please.
Also by the way, stop being a silly idiot by twisting what’s being said, in case you’re so bigoted that you didn’t notice, that I said that in defence of the copts against the libyan’s remarks, just use your fucking brain, or better still don’t use it, it’s been so washed that it’s rendered useless.
April 18th, 2006 at 4:19 pm
Mohamed Says:
“a person who’s so casual with mass killing or using nukes as Sean Shalor”
Mohamed
Can you point me to text that you use to justify this statement about me please.
April 18th, 2006 at 4:34 pm
Mohamed Says:
“Also by the way, stop being a silly idiot by twisting what’s being said, in case you’re so bigoted that you didn’t notice … just use your fucking brain, or better still don’t use it, it’s been so washed that it’s rendered useless.”
You are of course free to disagree.
But why do you feel it is necessary (or sensible even) to indulge in so much personal abuse. You don’t seem to be illustrating or making any point, just screaming invective. It might be more relevant if you would make clear what your reasons are for feeling this degree of hate. At the moment, you seem to be only illustrating the hysterical stereotype.
April 18th, 2006 at 4:46 pm
I think you folk are wasting your time looking for a reasoned response from this guy Mohamed. If you look at his posts here and everywhere else you’ll see that they are always the same - no particular point, just a lot of screaming, shouting and bad-mouthing everybody who crosses his path. Just like those rabid dogs chasing trucks. Ignore him.
April 18th, 2006 at 6:56 pm
Mohamed 3:44 pm, blow me. Old men like you will die, and young men like me will inhert the Earth. You are a turncoat, and a apostate, Sucking up to the Judeo-Christian vermin, its fucking disgusting.
April 18th, 2006 at 7:23 pm
AnrgyLibyan”American”
You missed out the apostrophe in it’s.
Just thought you’d like to know.
April 18th, 2006 at 8:50 pm
Excatly Ian McCulloch, first of all because I’m not really serious, and trust me I’m not trying to reason with you (I know very well the futility of that), or for that matter with that awesome libyan, look at his last post for god’s sake and tell me it’s not hilarious.
Libyan kid, not to stir you up more than you already are (though the angrier you get the better), but congratulations man, so happy to learn that you think you’ll live forever, did you just watch Highlander this morning? You know it’s not based on a true story, right?
April 19th, 2006 at 2:19 am
ok first of all, about this “alienated from Islam” article thing….
who ever wrote this is severely stupid.
“To top off this very enlightening speech, it sickens me to even repeat
what he said: ‘They will become like dogs and pigs, just like the Jews
and Christians.’ ” what the crap is this, ur saying that we’re hating on the Jews and Christians….umm sorry to say but ur the one trying to create hatred in ppl against the Muslims, and also ur hating on us
April 19th, 2006 at 2:39 pm
Danny: I’d like to start out by quoting a comment made by the inestimable LouLou on my original blog “If it is it doesn’t matter”
“Of course if you tell this to the average Muslim today he will be outraged. All he knows is what his local Imam tells him is Islam. He has no knowledge of where it came from or how it developed but he would defend it to the death out of tribal loyalty against any outside interference - no matter if this outside interference comes from another Muslim sect, the government, a colonial authority, Amnesty International etc…….
It’s also the reason why he would be confused & shocked if you ask him to explain some so-called Islamic practice from some other corner of the Muslim world. His first reaction would be to disbelieve you, accuse you of plotting etc….It’s because the reality of what Islam is differs so much from place to place.
It’s always amazing to me how Muslims manage to feel this loyalty to anyone else carrying the label ‘Muslim’ when infact they know so little about other Muslims, what they believe in or how they practice. ”
The article you comment on, by MumboJumbo, is simply quoting a sermon she heard outside a mosque. And she IS a Muslim, not someone trying to stir up hate, but someone disgusted by the hate another is trying to stir up.
I don’t know where you are located, but the fact is that over the past few months there have been numerous attacks on Christians by Muslims in various parts of the Islamic world, specifically in Pakistan, in Egypt — haven’t you been reading the posts here — in Indonesia (the most horrible one) and elsewhere. As for Jews (and I remind you I am neither but an atheist) the charter of Hamas quotes from that long-exploded fraud of the PROTOCOLS OF THE ELDERS OF ZION, and if you check out some of the quotes on MEMRI you will find repeated anti-Semitic comments, including the claim that the Jews are behind bird flu.
Do all Muslims feel this way? No. Do many, yes. (On the forum I was a member of, a Pakistani one, even though the moderators tried to keep things like this out, there would be the occasional comment about ‘avoid Pepsi because the money goes to Israel” — which is a lie, btw.)
If you are angry about things like this, then please, challenge any anti-Semitic or anti-Christian comment you hear among your own friends — including the idea that all Christians are trying to stir up hatred against Muslims, because they aren’t.
April 19th, 2006 at 3:12 pm
danny said:
what the crap is this, ur saying that we’re hating on the Jews and Christians….umm sorry to say but ur the one trying to create hatred in ppl against the Muslims, and also ur hating on us
Strikes me very much as a “behead those who say islam is violent” statement. Very much on the “how dare you point out the bad in us.”
Notice you didn’t actually *deny* that muslims hate the Jews and Christians, but to point it out is apparently creating hatred against Muslims.
That’s like the article from the Egyptian story of the Christian Bishop who said that the practice of calling Christians “infidels” in the mosques had to stop, to which an Imam replied, in essense, staying stuff like that incites Muslims to riot.
Ya know, at this point, merely breathing seems to incite muslims to riot.
No one should keep their mouths shut when people are attacking them just because the attackers don’t like to have it pointed out.
It is not Jews and Christians who are inciting Muslims, it is muslims who are saying this crap! Face facts and stop turning the blame on the victims.
Those Muslims are inciting hatred, those Muslims are attacking, and yes, the rest of the world has the DUTY to point that out! If you don’t like it, then stop *doing* it, because you can’t just ask us to ignore it~
April 19th, 2006 at 4:29 pm
Seconded
April 19th, 2006 at 4:48 pm
Prup, you said “If you are angry about things like this, then please, challenge any anti-Semitic or anti-Christian comment you hear among your own friends — including the idea that all Christians are trying to stir up hatred against Muslims, because they aren’t.”, and I couldn’t agree more with you on that, that’s why I didn’t let angry libyan get away with what he said, but on the other hand, doesn’t it strike you, and no disrespect here, as grossly hypocritical and unfair on your part to say this while most of your comments are full of indiscriminate anti-Moslem generalizations.
April 19th, 2006 at 5:15 pm
“Your comments are full of indiscriminate anti-XXXXX generalizations.”
Just enter the group or person name you prefer.
April 19th, 2006 at 5:25 pm
I didn’t quiet get what you really meant to say Sean, articulate please.
April 19th, 2006 at 5:37 pm
Mohamed
I meant that you seem to apply one set of rules for yourself and those with whom you sympathise, and a different set for others. My example is the angry tirade that you launched upon me with your unsubstantiated assertions - you seem to think that is ok for you to do, but not for anyone else !
April 19th, 2006 at 5:38 pm
Angry Lybian:
Just be a good Muslim boy and go kill somebody.
April 19th, 2006 at 6:01 pm
Sean, how did you twist it and distort it this way is well beyond me, but no, you’re wrong, I’ve applied the same set of rules equally for for you and angry libyan, you for your anti-moslem rhetoric, and him for his anti-coptic then anti-jewish/christian rhetoric, but if you didn’t get a simple point as this one, I have nothing else to say. And the “angry triade that I’ve launched upon you” wasn’t because of what religion or no religion you follow, it’s simply because of your irrational comments, unless of course you mean any “angry triade” on one particular person ( in this case you) who happens to be christian or jew means that’s it’s anti-christian or anti-jewish comments in general, which is quiet a novel idea to me.
April 19th, 2006 at 6:01 pm
Sean, how did you twist it and distort it this way is well beyond me, but no, you’re wrong, I’ve applied the same set of rules equally for for you and angry libyan, you for your anti-moslem rhetoric, and him for his anti-coptic then anti-jewish/christian rhetoric, but if you didn’t get a simple point as this one, I have nothing else to say. And the “angry triade that I’ve launched upon you” wasn’t because of what religion or no religion you follow, it’s simply because of your irrational comments, unless of course you mean any “angry triade” on one particular person ( in this case you) who happens to be christian or jew means that’s it’s anti-christian or anti-jewish comments in general, which is quiet a novel idea to me.
April 19th, 2006 at 6:01 pm
Sean, how did you twist it and distort it this way is well beyond me, but no, you’re wrong, I’ve applied the same set of rules equally for for you and angry libyan, you for your anti-moslem rhetoric, and him for his anti-coptic then anti-jewish/christian rhetoric, but if you didn’t get a simple point as this one, I have nothing else to say. And the “angry triade that I’ve launched upon you” wasn’t because of what religion or no religion you follow, it’s simply because of your irrational comments, unless of course you mean any “angry triade” on one particular person ( in this case you) who happens to be christian or jew means that’s it’s anti-christian or anti-jewish comments in general, which is quiet a novel idea to me.
April 19th, 2006 at 6:01 pm
Sean, how did you twist it and distort it this way is well beyond me, but no, you’re wrong, I’ve applied the same set of rules equally for for you and angry libyan, you for your anti-moslem rhetoric, and him for his anti-coptic then anti-jewish/christian rhetoric, but if you didn’t get a simple point as this one, I have nothing else to say. And the “angry triade that I’ve launched upon you” wasn’t because of what religion or no religion you follow, it’s simply because of your irrational comments, unless of course you mean any “angry triade” on one particular person ( in this case you) who happens to be christian or jew means that’s it’s anti-christian or anti-jewish comments in general, which is quiet a novel idea to me.
April 19th, 2006 at 6:39 pm
Mohamed
OK you don’t like my views and I don’t like yours.
I do not accept that that gives you the right to insult me, or to invent and peddle malicious assertions about me - I don’t do that to you.
This is one of the things you said .
“a person who’s so casual with mass killing or using nukes as Sean Shalor”
April 19th, 2006 at 7:52 pm
Mohamed
Can you not see …
You are demanding tolerance for YOUR views
But
You insist on being intolerant of OTHER PEOPLE’S views
and htat can never work.
April 19th, 2006 at 8:26 pm
Ian, I think it’s pretty clear that my views are based on a live and let live inclusive principle, while the views I’m intolerant of are bigoted hate filled ones like the two examples I’ve mentioned. How can I be tolerant of a view that states that all moslems are violent murderers who need to be nuked, or that he wouldn’t care if 3000 of them were “smoked” or that islam made death a “way of life”, or of a statement like “BURN IN HELL COPTIC SCUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! “, do you think those are to be tolerated and embraced statements, that would pass by without even trying to debunk (or redicule)? If you’re ok with all of these statements, and that’s definitely you’re right, then don’t get upset if someone’s stating the obvious by calling you a Nazi.
April 19th, 2006 at 8:36 pm
Mohamed
I’m afraid that you are defining anything and anybody who disagrees with you, as bigoted and hate-filled. I note that I have been converted into a Nazi by daring to question you.
This is actually what this thread is about - how to reconcile different views, when some, you are the prime example, are determined that they are SO RIGHT that everyone else is damned.
You know perfectly well that you are trying (unsuccessfully) to smear everybody with that quote that you love so much from AnrgyLibyan”American”.
Your point is made - thanks to you, and others like you, coexistence is not possible. You really need to grow up.
April 19th, 2006 at 11:02 pm
Ian:
Since you’ve now pissed Mohmed and AngryLibyan, then now have the right to kill you. Says so in the Koran.
April 19th, 2006 at 11:23 pm
Set you free, please don’t even get me started, you know how easy you’d be ( at least a billion times easier than the libyan retard, and believe me he was easy).
See Ian, just be fair for once and tell me, how for god’s sake can you have a logical and sane argument with that religious freak (and please read his posts very carefully before you start accusing me of calling people names).
April 20th, 2006 at 7:13 am
Mohamed - Have a nice day.
May 30th, 2006 at 12:03 pm
I think, as a christian, i could stand up and tell the preacher he is full of s#**.But as a muslim, what he said about jews and christians is right out of the quran and hadeeth. even the late ayatollah of Iran likened unbelievers(non-muslims) to feces. I think it is about time, muslims start speaking out at the risk of their own lives, rather than waiting for unbelievers like the USA to do battle with these ignoramuses.