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Sunday, 11 Jun 2006
Dear Egyptian readers,
A couple of days ago I wrote a couple of angry posts at the USA for what I considerd to be nothing short of a betrayel of the democracy seeking forces in the country. Having the White House strongly advocate against any symbolic cuts of Egypt's aid and then having the House shoot down that bill, with republicans being the majority Nay votes - was too much for me to handle on the same day. As the old egyptian saying goes" Two hits in the head hurt". I got mightily depressed, and it felt as if we are alone in this battle and that we were nothing short of abandoned by people who should've been supporting us. I even contemplated shutting down this blog because I felt that it was a futile effort. That if with everything that happened in the past few months, with all the violations of our rights that were incurred on us as people, the US wouldn't even cut the aid symbolically and the US ambassador would say that all that happend was "negative news" and that Mubarak was a real democrat, well, what's the point then? What will it take for the US to want to take a stand on our behalf, if it's not going to do it now? What will happen when the government decides to arrest the remaining bloggers, including me and Big Pharaoh, when all the pressure we exerted over Alaa's arrest was still fruitless? I felt helpless, trapped and terrified! It was one of my darkest moments!
And then I got my shit together, and kicked myself in the ass for being such a goddamn pussy.
So, the US didn't cut the aid. So the US is still supporting Mubarak. So fuckin what? Who cares? What real difference does it make?
You see, I have come to an epipheny the other night: I think that we are morons to care about what the US does or doesn’t do in the first place.
Oh yeah!
You see, I think that all the bitching that some bloggers , alongside the "independent media", about what the US intend or doesn;t intend to do, and all those stories about backroom deals with the Bush adminstration over allowing Jimmy to take over after Mubarak leaves, and how the US is hypocritical to do so, is nothing but a sign of our helplessness. We don't do anything, we can't achieve anything, so we just lay back and bitch and moan about the US and its hypocrisy, because, well, what else are we going to do?
You see, We, as opposition forces, are pretty..ehh..impotent. We can’t get the people- who we supposedly fight for- to care about what's going on in the country to actually join us. We can’t get any effective organized opposition going, despite all the shit that has been going on and that would've driven lesser people into open revolt, because, well, our people just don't really care enough to actually do something. We- whether liberlas, socialists or pan-arabists- can’t influence any kind of change from the inside, mainly because our people's spirit is broken, and we don't want to acknowledge that simple fact. We don't want to face the reality that the problem isn't education, or raising political awareness, or the lack of political parties that have actual presence in the Egyptian street, but rather that our people - despite their low and increasingly getting lower living conditions- DO NOT CARE ENOUGH TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT!
What, do you think I am being too harsh? Shit! I will prove it to you right now: How big was the largest anti-Mubarak demonstration on the streets of cairo in the past year? 3000 people? 4000 people? Shit, let's say 5000 people? In a country of 74 million people, with more than half under the poverty line? Shit, even if we say that there was 7000 people- and we know that this is a blatant lie- it's still nothing more than 0.01% of the population. And god knows we have been demonstrating for more than a year and the numbers haven't increased. What does that tell you?
So how do we deal with that? Well, from one side we crack jokes about how the US
really is in control and how lame and weak that makes us, and then on the otehr side we get pissed at them when they do actually stay away
from our internal affairs. To say that we have a seriously schizophrenic way of dealing the USA would be an understatement. We hate its interference, but we get mad when they don’t interfere. We insult them, but we want them to help. We distrust them and act hostile towards them, and then call
them hypocrites when they don't help us. It makes no sense!
But see, it's because we personally don’t want to do anything or can’t do anything or actually feel capable of ever doing anything about the shit that we live in. It's certainly easier for us to blame them than deal with that! After all, we would say with the language of those who know importnat facts, they give 2 billion dollars every year to this regime. That amazingly huge sum of money that without it our Country would surely collapse, the peasents would starve and the government will surely tumble down like the walls of Jericho. Never mind that the Egyptian government’s budget is about 500 billion every year, or that we are the ones who are truly supporting this government. Oh yeah. What? You didn't know that? It's true!
You see, we are the ones who play by the rules that
this government set, and then wonder why we can never beat it. We lament corruption but use wastah. We talk about how the
police is so corrupt but we don’t hesitate to slip them a 20 pound note to have
him cut that ticket he just gave us. We advocate political freedom but, hey,
not for the MB, cause they might actually win in a democratic elections. And then we
blame the US
when we have no one but ourselves to blame.
Hell, we can't even agree on what we want!
Do we want Mubarak out? If that’s the case, then who should
take over? Or do we just not want gamal
to take over? Ok, fine, if not him, then who? Is any alternative a viable
alternative? Is that how we , as Egyptian
people, feel? Hell, do we value
democracy or stablity more? Would we even care about democracy if economically
things were good? Do you think if there was less corruption, if the theft wasn’t
so blatant, if the economy of the mid 90’s continued rolling through this day,
that anyone would even say anything about Mubarak’s rule or Gamal taking over?
We are weak.
We are disorganzied.
And we have no idea what we want or how to get it.
So we get mad at them, cause it's more conveinet than getting mad at ourselves and taking repsobsnbility for our own inaction. God knows I did!
But some of you will surely say: "But you know that it's impossible for this regime to survive, for any regime to survive, if the US doesn't support it! Right?"
Nope. Wrong!
If that's true, then what about Syria? What about Cuba? What about Venezuela? Qhaddafi was not supported for almost 20 years, and he stayed in power. Hell, Saddam had the worst kind of sanctions placed against him, and it still took a freakin invasion to get rid of him. I hate to tell you this, but the US is not GOD. Hell, it took them 3 years to get Zarqawi, and 5 years later they still can't get Bin Laden. It may not be easy to have the US as an enemy, but it has been proven to be a surviveable experience. Having the US not supporting Mubarak is unlikely to change anything!
But hey, I will bite. Let us say that america withdraws its support from Egypt, financial and diplomatic, what would happen exactly?
Well, the very next day you will find every single newspaper in the country stating how strongly they are against foreign interference, and how the US is punishing Egypt for Mubarak's unwavering and unflinching support for the palestinain cause and the palestinian people and how we are all standing up to America's imperialism and Hegemony. In short, they will make him out to be a pan-arabist hero, and people will support him, because let's face it, our people actually hate the US more than they hate him. Hell, it would inflate their sense of importance and give them the same feeling of pride and diginity that they had in the 1960's under Nasser. Because like any Nasserite will tell you, that despite the horrible human rights violations that occured under Nasser, we were better off, because he made us feel good about ourselves and inflated our sense of self-importance. Cause you see, it's no big deal if we were slaves, just as long as no one humiliates us in public, as one such nasserite blogger just wrote the other day. And you know, because of that reason Nasser isn't hated despite all the evil shit that got carried away in his time. Hell, Mubarak still isn't hated despite all the evil shit that still gets carried away in his time. The Egyptian people may despise him, but they don't hate him, and they might even start rooting for him if America turns on him. This is how freakin stupid we are.
But see, there we go again, we are talking about what would happen if the US
withdrew its support. Well, forget about the US for a minute. What about us? When do we withdraw our support? When do we cut ties with this government? When do we adopt the policy of "regime change" as our own demand? When will the day come when we simply just say : "No!" to the government and decide not to support it or acknowledge it as a legitimate representitive body anymore? What will it take for us to hit rock bottom? For our cup to overflow? To actually revolt and demand a better life? When will we take responsibility for ourselves?
We shouldn't care about what the US does or doesn't do, we should care about getting our people to do something. We shouldn't worry about secret backdeals in Washnigton or rumors of when the transfer of power will happen, we should worry about what we are going to do when it actually does happen. We shouldn't care about the amount of corruption that happens in our government, we should just not participate in it or enable it any longer. We shouldn't expect things to get better, we should demand that they do, and take the necessary steps to ensure that this happens. We can't get mad at the US for Abu Gharib and Guntanamo Bay when we do have Abu Zaabal and Tora, where our friends, people that we know, live under horrible conditions and get beaten up and tortured and we don't get outraged about it. We can't demand that the world, even our government, respects us, when we don't even respect ourselves. We have to start caring about any injustice that befalls our people. We have to stop feeling so numb about all that is going on and actually get mad about them. We have to stop talking and actually act. If there is anyone who should place pressure on this government and regime, it shouldn't be Bush, the state department, or the american congress, IT SHOULD BE US!
Our future, our destiny, is either our own, or we are nothing!
The Choice, as always, is yours!
June 11th, 2006 at 1:37 pm
Good rant SM. If you don’t respect yourselves you deserve none. That’s what we’re trying to show Iraq. Then we can go home and you all can kill each other. We’re damn tired of having to be the daddy.
June 11th, 2006 at 1:43 pm
> So, the US didn’t cut the aid. So the US is still supporting
> Mubarak. So fuckin what? Who cares? What real difference
> does it make?
Yeah, that’s MUCH better!!!!!!!!
Never bite the hand that feeds - or will one day feed - you, that will
make you and your bourgeois compatriots a proxy of the the US and
their inevitable ally - inshallah.
But I don’t think, that this apology is sufficient.
These sucker want to see your blood - sandmonkey - flagellate yourself -
my sweet little chauvinist - and promise Sinai to the master-race - once
you are in power.
Thas will BOOST your case - I’m sure.
June 11th, 2006 at 1:45 pm
> We’re damn tired of having to be the daddy.
And fuck off daddy,
June 11th, 2006 at 1:51 pm
I just put these same thoughts to words about the people of Syria. I read A Heritics Blog, by a Syrian dissenter, and the people that comment at that blog suffer from the same U.S. illness. On the one hand, they consider the U.S. to be the great Satan and, on the other hand think of the U.S. as this great power (daddy figure) that should step in (in what way is not made clear with the exception of “just don’t do it like you did it in Iraq”) to deliver them from their own government! I think it must be terribly disorienting to hold these same opinions simultaneously.
As you say, externalizing the issue solves a lot of problems for a disfunctional society. Thinking of yourself as a victim or, at the very least unable to personally affect change, absolves you of taking any kind of action. Railing against the abuses of the “other” allows you to ignore the abuses taking place right under your own nose, being perpetrated on your fellow countrymen, by your own government.
The Syrian opposition is trying to organize and take their message to the street. They point out that many Syrians are illiterate and the opposition message has to be put right in front of them. Just the other day an announcement was made that the first freedom and democracy rally was to be held in two weeks. Anyone want to guess the location of said rally? Why, Washington D.C.!!!
It is all very sad and I have no answers. I will say this however, I was revolted by the comments the U.S. ambassador to Egypt made recently and,
I would be more than happy to see Mubarack’s $2 B check get lost in the mail.
June 11th, 2006 at 1:54 pm
Well, this comment thread is off to a flying start. Oops, someone forgot to gas up the tanks: BOOM!
As usual SM, you make some great points. It’s never easy to change from a dictatorship to democracy. In Iran they went from a dictatorship to an equally brutal theocratic dictatorship. Fellow Travelers, like eee, were the first people up against the wall when Khomeini took over.
Those Communists and their wacky plans for revolution. It never goes right, but you have to respect their willingness to try a failed and discredited system over and over. I guess eee, like most such people, assumes he’ll be the Stalin and not the guy who shovels shit in a gulag.
June 11th, 2006 at 2:08 pm
eee - I would respond and try to discuss if you made any sense…
June 11th, 2006 at 2:08 pm
you want the things moving too quickly
each word, each sentence make a stone you built for future
be patient,
your blog is an open window to the world
keep going on
June 11th, 2006 at 2:16 pm
To subdue to Amnesia or it’s proxies?
Please expand on this thought as I do not understand what you are talking about.
June 11th, 2006 at 2:18 pm
Sorry, but I have to leave in couple of minutes, so I’m
not able to dig into the matter.
June 11th, 2006 at 2:31 pm
The United States should still support democracy for the people of Egypt. I’m upset that my government doesn’t seem to care.
June 11th, 2006 at 2:56 pm
Great post SM. I’m a strong believer that taking personal responsiblity is the ONLY way to move forward. It is easy to shift blame as it can make you feel like it’s not your fault that you are in this situation.
A perfect example is the Israel Palestinian conflict. Israel is a country made up mostly of Jewish refugees from around the world - mainly from arab countries but also many from post-pogrom Russia, post WWll Europe etc. Israel absorbed all the refugees and got on with life without putting much burden on the International community.
Palestinians on the other hand will to this day be so poisoned with blame-shifting about how they came to be refugees that they can’t acknowledge that maybe they are in this postion because the Arab leaders of the day, wanting to eliminate Israel instructed them to temporarily leave their homes (thinking it would be for a day or so). Well things didn’t work out as planned. When you start a war you have to accept the consequences when you loose. Almost sixty years and on they still cant move forward because of it. I’m not trying to diminish the lost they must have felt but for political reasons they are blaming the wrong people. They need to just accept the 1967 borders with no right of return and get on with life. The Arab world in general needs to accept much of the responsibility for the situation the Palestinians found themselves in.
Israels economic success is due solely to the fact that Israel chose to get on with life regardless of the hardships.
June 11th, 2006 at 3:04 pm
Probably shouldn’t picked that example because I don’t want to sidetrack the discussion and alot of people here will disagree with my views but my main point is that the Arab world tends to have a victim mentality where it is all someone elses fault and whether it is warranted or not, it doesn’t acheive a thing.
June 11th, 2006 at 3:10 pm
Good post, SM. This is, more or less, what had happened with Greeks during the Turkish occupation right of the bat. Constantinos Palaiologos, the last emperor of the Byzantine Empire died defending Instabul from Mohamed II whereas his two borthers where having a fight over the lands of the Peloponese and asked Mohamed II to become the mediator. And a bit before the 1821 revolution, people were expecting Russia to save them (what, they were Christian Orthodox as well) up to the point that they got fed up but that didn’t stop them from forming the English, the French and the Russian political parties when the greek state was set up.
I don’t expect a revolt in Egypt any time soon, especially since so many are below the poverty line. History has shown that the vast majority of revolutions took place when the middle class was sufficiently numerous and powerful; the very poor have very little to lose, but they mean the world to them and the very rich (see Saudi Arabia) are doing well under the current status quo so why bother.
Tommy, your goverment has its own priorities, like every other goverment in the course of history, and acts upon them. Cheer up, you have the power to elect the candidate that has the same priorities as you in regular intervals.
Suggested reading: Terry Pratchett “Witches Abroad”, “Men at Arms” and “The Fifth Elephant”
June 11th, 2006 at 3:29 pm
I’m with Tommy. It’s not good for anyone (except Mubarak) for the U.S. to be seen as Cairo’s benefactor.
On the one hand, for us, America’s popularity in the region depends on being viewed as opposed to the local dictators whom most folks view as their political enemy. It can’t be a coincidence that pro-Americanism is widespread in places like Iran, Xinjiang, Afghanistan, and Iraq, but scarce in Egypt, Saudi, and Pakistan.
On the other hand, for you, if the opposition is to have any impact, it’s the regime that needs to be isolated, not you. America is a secondary influence at best in Egyptian politics, but that’s no reason to be on the wrong side altogether.
Of course, on the gripping hand, for the Mubarak regime to actually end would require a viable alternative ready to take over. (The MB doesn’t count.) That’ll take time to build up. All the more so if the regime feels itself able to repress the opposition without foreign-policy consequences.
The upshot, You’re right, Sam, both here and in your original critiques of the vote and the Ambassador.
June 11th, 2006 at 3:57 pm
I have no problem whatsoever with the US helping the “people” make change happen. But, there appears to be a few problems.
First of all, I get the feeling that our government has a lot of learning to do. At times it appears they talk to the wrong people and get some seriously screwy information. Of course, this is a new way of doing things. Not literally going in and bombing the hell out of places or just not doing anything at all. Which of course is what we did in the past. Isolationism has had a very negative affect that we are beginning to see now. Problems that eventually spread around the world, were allowed to grow unchecked. And now with the advent of technology, the world has no borders, no vast oceans to cross, no protection from outside evil. There are still plenty of people who do not see this evidence. Who still feel that isolationism is the answer.
But, in the end you cannot help someone who is not willing to help themselves. It matters not what the US does in any country, in any form, if the people are not willing, able and ready to accept the assistance to change.
Frustration for us individuals out here, is the byproduct of these problems. We so want to see people like you SM living in a country that you can feel happy and free to live your life as you wish. But the process is awful to watch and frustrating as hell.
June 11th, 2006 at 4:20 pm
There are two options that I see, SM: make the people rich enough to care or poor enough to revolt. Basically, a good revolution needs a strong boureois class and a proletariat that can be convinced to move. And to get them Proles cracking you need them either desperate or able to think.
Good luck, mate.
June 11th, 2006 at 4:21 pm
There are two options that I see, SM: make the people rich enough to care or poor enough to revolt. Basically, a good revolution needs a strong boureois class and a proletariat that can be convinced to move. And to get them Proles cracking you need them either desperate or able to think.
Good luck, mate.
Sorry if this got posted twice - I think I have connection problems
June 11th, 2006 at 4:24 pm
Wow!
It worked for me. I very nearly joined the fight for freedom in Egypt… Wish I were an Egyptian and could follow your lead
June 11th, 2006 at 5:02 pm
SM, you have my ultimate respect bro. This is by far the BEST POST you have ever put on this blog… Egypt is not alone in what you described. Almost every country in the region is in the same condition. The same goes with us in Sudan. Sudan is already witnessing change. The process is ugly but the change is happening. People have already hit rock bottom (Darfur anyone??) and until we all do hit rock bottom nothing will change…
June 11th, 2006 at 6:20 pm
SM, I agree with SudaneseThinker, this is the best post you’ve written. Egyptians need to wake up from their self-imposed apathy and defeatism. Most Egyptians I talk to won’t even want to delve this far into the critical self-analysis you just presented - it’s too tedious, painful, and depressing. Yet, of your garden variety Third World countries, Egypt may be the one with the most potential because of it’s sheer size, resources, and Sandmonkey! (and the small minority of like minded people - how many are we talking? 3? 4?) But if that’s the case, then Egyptians deserve the state their living in. We all know the US pours billions into Egypt, yet corruption still abounds, people are still poor, and life is a daily struggle for most Egyptians. Where is that money going exactly? And why doesn’t the US question this, nor monitor their tax payer’s money, which is probably being dispersed among the upper elites in government?
Where is Egypt heading? What will Egypt look like in 10 years? 50 years? How many people will still be unable to read their local paper, let alone act on what they read? (Illiteracy in Egypt is over 50% right now, I believe) What kind of Egypt do Egyptians want for their future generations? Do Egyptians ever even consider such thoughts or ideas? Or are they all daydreaming about the day when they can leave this country and all it’s problems to say, and move to New Zealand?
Thanks SM, this should be published in the major papers so that everyone can read it and be uncomfortable enough with their lot in life, with their non-action, and do something.
Signed,
A non-Egyptian
(who resides in Egypt, spending many days flabbergasted by the destitution, apathy and contradiction in this country).
June 11th, 2006 at 6:45 pm
“We can’t get mad at the US for Abu Gharib and Guntanamo Bay when we do have Abu Zaabal and Tora, ….”
We should get mad at the US for Abu Gharib and Guntanamo Bay and at Egypt for Abu Zaabal and Tora
June 11th, 2006 at 6:50 pm
Things aren’t bad enough to warrant a revolution. The best thing that could happen to Egypt is Gamal Mubarak taking over.
June 11th, 2006 at 6:56 pm
> I’m a strong believer that taking personal responsiblity is the ONLY way to move forward.
Oh yeah! Don’t care for the political framework and restrictions, don’t care
for the powers that tried and try to do everything possible to prevent the
people in from Chile, trough El Salvador, Egypt and Iraq from their self-de-
termination.
No - don’t care for reality at all!!!
Because if something goes wrong, it’s all in/from your personal responsibility!
Lick the boots of your american proconsul - and everything will be fine!
Amnesians unite!
ROTFL.
June 11th, 2006 at 8:20 pm
SM, Arabs usually do not enjoy taking responsibility for their acts, I guess it’s just easier to get around blaming others. However, the fact that you are such a passionate advocate for individual responsibility and reasoning, freedom and liberty proves that the Arab lands are not, yet lost. In Lebanon (and I’m sure this trend will become more and more familiar) there are hundreds of individuals, telling ppl to wake up and smell the reality. You should not give up!!
June 11th, 2006 at 8:20 pm
SM, Arabs (meaning the Arab politicians) usually do not enjoy taking responsibility for their acts, I guess it’s just easier to get around blaming others. However, the fact that you are such a passionate advocate for individual responsibility and reasoning, freedom and liberty proves that the Arab lands are not, yet lost. In Lebanon (and I’m sure this trend will become more and more familiar) there are hundreds of individuals, telling ppl to wake up and smell the reality. You should not give up!!
June 11th, 2006 at 8:21 pm
Does anyone understand eee’s coded talk? Who the hell are the “amnesians” and will they even remember that they’re them?
AWESOME POST SM. Definitely one of your finest.
As an American tax-payer, I’m really disgusted at the apathy our ELECTED politicians are showing towards the Egyptian people. I’m really pissed off about it. Someone should take your letter and read it in front of congress and let them ponder on how their stupid inaction is hurting Egyptians, Egyptians who are desperately counting on support from the US in struggling for democracy!
Keep up the good fight, man. You need to somehow get your message out to the masses. Of course this blog is great but I’m pretty sure, since ‘Joe Egyptian’ can barely read Arabic, that you’re not reaching them.
June 11th, 2006 at 8:50 pm
well said.
June 11th, 2006 at 9:00 pm
Dear Sandmonkey,
you are expecting the wrong people to help you. You must adress the EU instead of the US. As long as the EU backs Mubarak the US will do nothing I fear. Read this book and then think again:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/083864077X/sr=8-1/qid=1150058970/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-0779867-9475009?%5Fencoding=UTF8
and look at this: http://ec.europa.eu/comm/external_relations/med_mideast/intro/index.htm
Our german goverment likes Mubarak (next year will be the year of German-Egypt partnership) and so does the rest of the EU. My fears after 33 years of Euro-arab dialogues and common policies are that the EU is going to adopt the kind of government one can find in the countries south to the Mediterranean Seafor their own people. Don´t expect to much from “democracy”. The people in the EU are told they are living in one but it is not true:
http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2006/06/why-eu-needs-to-be-destroyed-and-soon.html
June 11th, 2006 at 9:05 pm
The USA is a fair weather friend. When we need you we love you, when we dont we discard you. It amazes me that the world does not see this. We are a friend to noone but ourselves.
And you are correct, the USA is not God, we cant do anything. Change must come from within.
June 11th, 2006 at 9:25 pm
> SM, Arabs usually do not enjoy taking responsibility for their acts, I
> guess it’s just easier to get around blaming others.
Oh yeah! Kill or torture arabs or muslims from Palestine to Iraq - and
forget about your fucking responsibility. They hate you, because you’re
so free!!!!
And: “Change must come from within.”.
The NAZIS should have written this on the gates of their concentration-
camps!
June 11th, 2006 at 9:33 pm
> Someone should take your letter and read it in front of congress and
> let them ponder on how their stupid inaction is hurting Egyptians
The only stupid persons I can see here are amnesians that believe, that
the policy of their governent is somhow wrong - or - misguided.
Nay - your goverment knows exactly what it’s doing - protecting its in-
terests and that of their inevitable ally -> keep the pharaoh in power,
because a really democratically elected government in Egypt will no
long lick your boots - oh amnesians - see the OPT or - partially - Iraq.
You’re either dumb or hypocrite - maybe both.
June 11th, 2006 at 9:36 pm
Is there a mandate for change? in order to get the attention you desire there needs to be a call for change by the majority of Egyptians, not just a tenth of 1 percent of the population, and if the US quits sending aid, it’s not Mubarak who’s going to starve, if the US started pressuring Mubarak when the majority of the country supports him, what would that serve? I think the US would help any nation make the change to democracy, but there has to be a desire for it because we really don’t consider ourselves “the daddy” of the world.
June 11th, 2006 at 9:41 pm
eee, you speak with a forked tounge, first your mad the US doesn’t do anything, then mad because they do. just like SM had to say about it.
June 11th, 2006 at 9:56 pm
Hey SM I had a thought! after seeing Miss Michelle Renee’s comment that the US is a fair weather friend, and noticing that position is not supported by history, (we rebuild and support almost every nation we’ve ever fought against, still throwing money all over korea, japan, germany, etc.) do you see a pattern? there is a fastrack to democracy!
(this is tounge-in cheek, okay?)
June 11th, 2006 at 10:40 pm
> eee, you speak with a forked tounge
Never. My position was always the same: The US - the west more precisely -
is a big parasite, that does everything to suck the blood - oil, gas etc. - out
of their hosts. The assumption, that its policies aim at bringing democracy
or liberty is completely ridiculous,
Things are similar with the sandmonkey who begs to replace the pharaoh
- of course again unter the pretense to fight for democracy - and is thus
very busy to kiss your hands.
June 11th, 2006 at 10:42 pm
> we rebuild and support almost every nation we’ve ever fought against,
> still throwing money all over korea, japan, germany, etc.
Any source for this nonsense?
June 11th, 2006 at 11:14 pm
eee comment #33
so, if we removed all the US dollars spent in the mid-east, all the mid-east’s problems would be solved? is this your thought?
June 11th, 2006 at 11:17 pm
eee’s comment 34.
you have a computer, check it out, please don’t take my word for this, look it up yourself, the facts are too many to even outline.
June 11th, 2006 at 11:31 pm
How many dictatorships have been unseated by peaceful means?
I can’t think of any, but I could be wrong.
Dictators don’t go willingly, nor their children. It will take more than protests, demonstrations and condemnations from within and without.
It will take the blood of the people, who care more for their children and grandchildrens lives than they do for their own.
Papa Ray
June 11th, 2006 at 11:34 pm
“The US - the west more precisely -
is a big parasite, that does everything to suck the blood - oil, gas etc. - out
of their hosts.” - eee
It’s called commerce. One seller provides a valuable product or service. The buyer provides something valuable in exchange. Both parties end up better off.
The US (and other oil consumers) would definitely be better off if it didn’t need to purchase oil from the middle east or Venezuela. Without oil revenues those corrupt, dictatorial regimes would collapse.
Please continue raising prices to spur development of other energy sources and hasten the decline of the producters. In the longer term, oil producers need us more than we need them.
June 11th, 2006 at 11:36 pm
I am pretty sure this is the post that will finally get you arrested Sam….lookout!
June 11th, 2006 at 11:49 pm
Egyptian Outlook
The Sandmonkey is ranting over continuing US support for the Mubarak regime, and even more loudly, the continued scape-goating of the United States. Well worth reading. A few quick notes after reading: 1) As the Sandmonkey says, the US is…
June 12th, 2006 at 3:17 am
First off, the vast majority of Egyptians don’t mind Mubarak in power. Second off, A, illiteracy in Egypt is not above 50%. The thought that a majority of Egyptians can’t read is always present in a bunch of comments and is simply untrue. The illiteracy rate by now is less than 30%, which, granted, is not remotely good enough, but its far better than above 50%.
June 12th, 2006 at 4:26 am
I hate to see my government pump money into a chump like mub’s, but I suspect that you guys are fucked either way. It looks like this is going to turn into some kind of monster and I wish you good luck.
BTW, eee, your mix of lame lefty/marxist bullshit and islam is funny.
June 12th, 2006 at 4:32 am
eee,
The US - the west more precisely - is a big parasite
You lowered the precision there, professor
June 12th, 2006 at 6:56 am
Well Sandmonkey,
After living in Egypt for almost a decade and in observing the political attitudes of Egyptians I would say that this post is spot on. My wife is a beautiful, smart and elegant woman but she suffers from the exact political apathy and love/hate relationship with the US. She has the same shocking ignorance of the history of her own country. No fault of her own mind you. Just the way the system is set up. I try to expose her to some reality but shared cultural myths are so ingrained it is painful to let go of them.
By the way this eee troll that lurks on all the pro democracy sites is a serious idiot. Why doesn’t he start his own blog so that people can ignore it? I mean, if he thinks of himself as so smart then people would logically flock to his blog to drink of his wisdom . Seriously, we get it you moron, you despise democracy. The crazy and the ignorant rarely have a tolerance for others being free.
June 12th, 2006 at 8:27 am
45. Craig,
You do not know that he lowered the precision, perhaps eee was refering to those citiizens of the US that live west of the Rockies, or maybe west of the Mississippi? Your attack is offensive. Clearly you just hate the supreme ideology of communism.
Sandmonkey, you are correct in identifying that the main source of the Egyptian government’s power is from the Egyptian people’s own complacency and not from the US aid. (although the US aid certainly does not help.)
However, before seeking to remove a dictator you should be sure that it will not be replaced with a tyrant. Changing the relationship a nation’s government has with its people may take generations. It is best to try and convince fellow Egyptians of the benefit of limited government and individual freedom before demanding any change. Look what happened when Iraq was invaded by the US; previous leader out with little trouble but without popular support behind a unified ideal of a new government political and violent turmoil are now the norm.
Changing Egyptian’s minds about liberal democracy may be slow but you fortunately have reason and empirical evidence on your side. (eee only has teenager-like moral agnst for his position however.)
June 12th, 2006 at 8:55 am
> so, if we removed all the US dollars spent in the mid-east, all
> the mid-east’s problems would be solved? is this your thought?
Any idea how many billions - or trillions - of petro-Dollars where
invested in the west - including the US?
Why keeping insane crooks like the Saudis, the Pharaohs or the
Hashsemites in power, since more than half a century?
Democracy?
June 12th, 2006 at 9:10 am
That’s the continuing tragedy in the post-9/11 world. As being against communism was a carte blanche for every dictator during the cold war, now being against “terror” is all the assurance other countries need, without seeing whether the cure is worse than the disease. And the fact that the only strong opposition to Mubarak is the Muslim Brotherhood, an organisation that called Zarqawi a martyr merely strengthens Mubarac’s position in the international field.
An all-out revolution could actually make things worse, especially is the agenda is a “we don’t need the west” one. See what happened to Cuba. The corrupt regime that was supported by the US got toppled but the Cubans ended up with Castro, who ought to be tried for crimes against humanity if only for making the people listen to his 11-hour-long speeches.
What you need is a Nelson Mandela. Someone willing to suffer, someone all Egyptians can rally around, someone who will serve a term and then withdraw from politics.
June 12th, 2006 at 2:54 pm
My blog is full of posts concerning the Egyptian-American rapport and it discusses my thesis at the University of Chicago which closely examined the relationship and its potential future.
Please visit my blog http://egyptianobserver.blogspot.com
June 12th, 2006 at 3:32 pm
Well Sam, you and I were just discussing this the other day and I had no idea you were mulling over the implications for Egypt so much. Really no one should question your love for your country. I suppose I was only thinking of this from an abstract point of view and an American one. The decision baffles me and I do not want to send my money to Mubarak, the devil may care.
If we both keep getting louder, one of our governments will eventually have to listen up.
June 12th, 2006 at 8:36 pm
#48 Petro-dollars, professor? Interesting term.
June 12th, 2006 at 8:55 pm
Love your stuff, SM.
You are right, personal responsibility is key.
It’s real simple. Groups who blame others don’t get ahead. People that value honesty, hard work, and education eventually do.
It might not be easy. Or glamorous. Or fun. It is still an open question whether six, eight, or ten billion people can live comfortably on the planet and get along. We (humanity) may not succeed.
There is a place for political activism and a time for vigorous oposition. But the real victories - though less glamorous - are won maximising your own marketable skills, practising social tolerance and helping spouses, parents, brothers, sisters, and children and friends do the same.
Making honest money in a free market means you are contributing value, promoting prosperity, and in no small measure increasing the odds that the poor will have more opportunities for better lives.
This is how a prosperous, and eventually free Egypt will be built. Look at Chile. My wife lived through Allende and Pinochet. Her family kept their heads down, worked hard, got the best educations they could and now are prospering in a free country with a bright future and reasonable, fair minded citizens.
Keep up the good work. The world needs rabble rousers like you for vision, and it needs truck drivers, engineers, accountants, doctors, postmen, and police to make it happen.
June 12th, 2006 at 9:55 pm
> You are right, personal responsibility is key.
For becoming exploited and abused.
That’s the reason why amnesians love it that much.
June 12th, 2006 at 10:35 pm
Sweetie, most people most places are apathetic. They may whine about their condition (and rightly so), but very very few get off their tushes and actually try to do something to better their own lives or the lives of their fellow men and women. Karl Marx (and I really like Karl but…) believed that the poor, slovenly, proletariat worker would rise up against his oppressors and change the world, or at least his corner of the world, for the good –he was wrong. And the middle class and the upper class also don’t, in any kind of numbers, want to rock the boat even when they’d like the boat to be rocked. Or maybe they don’t. Maybe they just like to be able to sit around and complain (I know more than a few people who I highly suspect of this tendency!). Change doesn’t always happen from sheer numbers of people protesting and trying to change things –it often happens from small numbers thinking very smartly. You are one of the smart ones, don’t despair!
June 13th, 2006 at 12:19 am
Michelle Renee and others, please realize that this fantasy about countries having friends is BS! Countries have allies that change over time, countries never have friends. Foreign policy of any country is always for it’s own good never the good of the other. It always astounds me how many people in the world have this fantasy about how the world interacts.
June 13th, 2006 at 12:51 am
Foreign policy of any country is always for it’s own good never the good of the other. It always astounds me how many people in the world have this fantasy about how the world interacts.
You are French then, I take it?
Or just a wannabe Machiavellian worm? What a hidesously cruel world you live in. No freinds. No allies. No enemies. No partners. No hostilities. No warmth. No TRUST. No mis-trust.
Just fleeting “interests”
Such a world doesn’t deserve to survive. And probably won’t. If that’s the best mankind can do with civilization, mankind won’t be around very long.
June 13th, 2006 at 7:58 am
Craig
I am surprised how each time, you drop the french into your fantasm of supposed betrayor !
we are FREE people, (we paid the price : 2000 years of wars with our neighbours)
then, we can discern the good or bad reasons of our supposed allies
by the ways, we now are friends with the germans,
soon or later we will be with the english, thus we had a kind of suspiscious sense orf relation untill they come and live in France and seem to appreciate it
you know what, all your problems of interest, allies, friends, feinds, in decenies, climate will resolve them all !
June 13th, 2006 at 2:07 pm
Craig -
Unfortunately, Machiavelli was right. Politics are determined by interests and availiablity of means, with the occasional idealist breaking the mould. Loyalties are temporary treaties of submission to the strong, or the fearful congregation of humans around an illusory common cause.
But so what? Politics negate individuality. And we are individuals with free will, not numbers with pitiful reactions to events. At the moment our psychological and sociological make-up forces us to foreswear individuality when grouped: a mass of humans is more like an ameba than a human being - it’s a mass of semi-sentient protoplasm, driven by base instincts and reactions.
Only in anarchy can humans find utopia - and even that will happen only once humans discard the mob as a form of being.
All hail Eris!
June 14th, 2006 at 1:58 am
Far from being anti-american, which is stupid if someone was anti-american, but The US bears responsibility albeit a small one. The US will Always always interfere in Egypt’s internal affairs. We secularists just wish they back the right side for a change. As far as the other studd sandmonkey said about secular movements in Egypt I agree. Leaderless, divided and without a cause that convinces people. As much spine as Ned Flanders.
June 16th, 2006 at 7:31 pm
> The US will Always always interfere in Egypt’s internal affairs.
Of course. They own EVERYTHING - watch Olmert, who travels to
Washington to get THEIR license to rob more pal. land - and so they
take everyting from you - or anybody else - they want.
They are like Israel - beggars and thieves - but much, much bigger.