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Thursday, 13 Jul 2006
….and let's slip the dogs of war.
*SCROLL DOWN FOR UPDATES*
Good morning everyone. It's time for us to resume our coverage of the little egomanical exercise in insanity called the Hezbollah kidnappings of Israeli soldiers , and the Israeli "We don't know how the fuck to respond but let's bomb everything" retaliation Policy. The region is ruled by insanity, madness beckons, and War is on everyone's mind. No one is surprised though. After all, in the middle east, this is business as usual.
The responses of the people in Egypt are…interesting. My dad's view is that comic sadness "Those poor lebanese. Every single time they rebuild Beirut, it gets destroyed, so they rebuild it again, and it gets destroyed again. It's like a Seesaw!", while my co-worker H. response is of "We should go to War, and attack Israel, if we have any sembelnce of diginity or self-respect. War War war, rah rah rah, blah blah blah", all said while he lounges confortably in his leather chair, in an airconditioned Office, while sipping on the morning Coffee that the Office-boys have made them. I love Chair-warriors, you know, the people who egg on the war from their desks. Of course they are cheering Hezbollah, what do they have to lose?
The interesting and new thing is the view that Israel can not do shit, one that is held by the political, combat and strategic warfare analysts and experts that occupy our accounting department. It goes something like this: Israel can't do shit, because for the first time Hezbollah's rockets are capable of attacking them inside their territories. That they are not attacking Hezbollah's outposts because they can't afford to, which is why they blow up the airports and the powergrids, because they can't really attack Hezbollah. Jamal, a lebanese blogger, shares their same sentiment that this is all but a strom in a teacup:
Hezbollah did their thing in the morning and and then sat back and watched . Israel hit roads and nothing else.
Why?
Because any further escalation would give Hezbollah the right (per the April 1996 Agreement) to hit back.
Power station for power station. Tourist season for Tourist Season.
Israel
knows Hezbollah rockets are in place, ready, aimed and can reach deep
into Israel. 15,000 of them. And that's even before the "surprise".Israel
had to retaliate. No way they could let an act of aggression by
Hezbollah go "unpunished." So they barked, hit roads, and killed
civilians. In the end they will sit down and negotiate.Hezbollah
acted unilaterally and they will get some criticism for it in Lebanon,
especially for endangering the precious tourist season. However,
regionally they got millions of admirers for being the only group in
the world to do something about the rape of Gaza. Sure, Nasrallah
insists today was all about Lebanon and Lebanese POWs, but who is he
kidding.
It wasn't and there is no shame in that.At the end
of the day Hezbollah proves they are strong, very strong actually, and
Israel is not used to dealing with a strong foe.
Hmmm……….
Now, since we are all strategic warfare experts here, the question begs itself, what should Israel do? Should they lay down their arms, and be forever humiliated by Hezbollah? Should they move the ground forces into Lebanon, and engage in Guerilla warfare on Hezbollah territory? Or should they just resort to the Kosovo option, and Carpet bomb Southern Lebanon to the stone age? Or should they just attack Syria, because let's face it, they are the ones behind that shit anyway?
Well, laying down the arms and open negotiations is a humiliating but viable option, altough it will encourage future kidnappings to get future concessions, so they will probably say no to that. The ground forces move? Maybe good to estbalish a buffer zone to stop missile attacks into Israel, but the lives saved from getting kileld by a rocket will have an equal life lost on the battlefield with Hezbollah. The Kosovo option is viable, and offers the lowest casualty rate on the Israeli side, but thousands of Lebanese people will do, who, while they may be Hezbollah supporters, ehh, it just doesn't look good in the inetrnational community's eyes. But then again, since when does Israel care what the world says anyway? It's not like they were ever on their side. Right?
This leaves us with the "Let's Bomb Syria" option, and inetrestingly, that's the one favored by a lebanese blogger as well:
Some independent people in Lebanon might start thinking that the
only solution is to move the conflict to Syria and Iran. The country is
on the brink of destruction, especially after the Israeli prime
minister threatened to take the country back 20 years. Hizbullah and
the cabinet do not care enough. It is unlikely that the international
community will save Lebanon now. Why should they? Even Saad Hariri’s
media has gone soft on Hizbullah all of a sudden. So the only logical
thing for some might be to actively support forces opposed to the Assad
regime and Tehran. Since the Lebanese army is not interested in
defending the Lebanese state, then some free Lebanese might consider
funding and arming militant units to work on Syrian and Iranian
territories, targeting Syrian and Iranian infrastructure. There is no
reason why Lebanon should lose bridges and Damascus and Tehran don’t.
After all, we are all in this together, right?As for Israel’s leaders, perhaps they should listen to Nasrallah for
once. Bombing Lebanon will not deter anyone. Olmert is a wimp with
high-tech war toys. A mighty power such as Israel has to go after the
real source and stop the cheap targeting of Lebanese infrastructure and
civilians. But Israeli leaders are still choosing the easy way out.
Instead of picking enemies their own size in Damascus and Tehran, they
pick to destroy the livelihood of innocents and kill and maim
civilians, feeding the backward resistance culture that pervades the
region. The scale of the Israeli retaliation today, Lebanese
responsibility aside, was cowardly. If Hizbullah showers them with
rockets, then they have asked for it. Their army was even humiliated by
Hizbullah fighters, so they took it out on bridges and roads, harming
the interests of the same people that Hizbullah has hijacked with their
help. This will serve to reinforce Israel’s image as a terrorist bully
in a region of masochists.
that same call is repeated by him again here:
YOU GOT WHAT YOU WANTED NASRALLAH.
NOW SHOW US WHAT YOU CAN DO.
SHOW US YOUR MIGHT.
USE THOSE ROCKETS.
LEBANON IS BEING DESTROYED AND ALL I CAN THINK OF IS YOUR FACE:
DAMN YOU.
AS FOR THE ISRAELI COWARDS, GO FLEX YOUR MUSCLES IN DAMASCUS AND TEHRAN. COWARDS.
This move would make the best strategic sense for Israel and Lebanon. If they managed to bomb Syria and kill Bashar, a power struggle will emerge in the syrian government and the revolution that all the sects want to engage in against the alawites will take place. The In-fighting would cut-off military support to Hezbollah, but would also free Lebanon from syrian tutelage, and would wekaon Hezbollah to he degree that it can;t bully the otehr lebanese sects anymore, allowing the lebanese to finally move forward. As Big Pharoh quoted one of the leabense commenters on an FPM site: " This could be a positive for Lebanon. Israel might disarm Hezbollah for them."
The sentiments on the rest of the lebanese blogsphere, while may not be calling for the bombing of Syria yet, are definitely very angry at Hezbollah. Mustapha calls their actions a "Fatal overreach":
We are all supposed to cheer the “achievement” of capturing two Israeli
soldiers by our heroic resistance. From a pure technical perspective,
it is an achievement indeed; who else can capture two soldiers of one
of the most powerful armies in the world?But since when was Hezbollah so childish? “Look! No hands! Hurray!”
What
about abu Ali, the baklava maker? Isn’t he one of the people whose
dignity the resistance protects? Other people buy Baklava too; the
tourists now leaving in scores could have contributed handsomely to
Ali’s education. Besides, when the raging Israeli bull bombs abu Ali’s
neighborhood, people will push baklava way down their purchasing lists.Hezbollah
is trying to fool us. It wants us to believe that it’s offering Israel
a fair deal. We are being bluffed to relax, to conclude that Israel
will eventually do “the right thing”; because -and here goes the bluff
aimed at Israel- we have “Surprises” hidden up our sleeves.I for one am not fooled. I will not heed Nassrallah’s call. It is time the last militia in Lebanon be solved.
And Letters apart has written, well, a letter to Nasrallah:
Hassan, I wanted you to prove me wrong. I wanted you to take the
right - the right, and not just the wise - decision. It has been clear
for some time now that you will incite the Israeli Army into attacking
Lebanon once again, but I wanted to be wrong. You have failed. You have
failed 3.5 million people. You have failed yourself. You have failed
your son.The truth is that you have always been responsible.
You share in the responsibility for Qana. You share in the
responsibility for the Israeli attacks on the power station near my
house 6 years ago, which set the country back decades. The blood of
innocents has tainted your hands, regardless of what you say. "Will all
great Neptune's ocean wash this blood clear from" your hand? No. You
will "rather the multitudinous seas incarnadine, making the green one
red."Hassan, do you not question yourself? Do you never doubt
your actions? Do you not wonder how many people you have robbed of old
age?Death is not yours to hand to others.
You have
killed, maimed, and destroyed lives. Yet you continue in your
self-declared righteous path. People have been killed because of you.
People have killed because of you. You offer no solution but death, and
the option you bring to the table is the most outdated and cliched one.
There is no honor in murder, no dignity in crime, yet you insist on
slicing through our lives.
True!
All the while, my favorite 2 lebanese bloggers, RAJA and Doha, are keeping us updated with what's going on inside of Lebanon. It's not pretty:
Update 6 - 8:56 AM: The Israeli raid on
Beirut's airport was conducted at 6:00 AM. Israeli Army radio declared
that Israel is implementing an "air blockade" on Lebanon as a means of
punishing the Lebanese government for not disarming Hizballah. The
airport was hit with six rockets.Update 7 - 9:05 AM: All exams for current and prospective students at the Lebanese University have been postponed indefinitely.
Update 8 -
9:14 AM: The main artery that connects Beirut to the South is a highway
that pass underneath the airport runways that were just destroyed. Some
of the Israeli missiles hit the runways at precisely the point where
the tunnels pass. The tunnels are no longer usable.[...]
Update 14 - 10:23 AM: The Israeli Navy has just initiated a maritime blockade on Lebanon to complement the aerial blockade.
Lebanon's
tourist industry employs around 500,000 individuals in a country with a
population of 3.5 million. It is the country's largest employer.
Projections for 2006 were that Lebanon would gain $4.5 billion from
tourists. Poof!Update 15 - 11:02
AM: The North-South Highway between Beirut and Saida was cleared of
rubble about an hour ago by the Lebanese Army's Core of Engineers. It
is now clear for those daring or desperate enough to pass through.Update 16 - 11:10 AM: Israeli Defense Minister: We will not allow Hizballah to return to its positions on the Lebanese-Israeli Border.
Update 17 -
11:17 AM: Lebanon's Minister of Transportation, Mohammad Safadi:
Segment of runway can be fixed within 48 hours, but allowing planes to
land and take off will need a political decision…. An MEA plane
landed and taxied away from the runway seconds before the Israeli
strike.Update 18 - 11:30 AM: Lebanese who can are beginning to seek refuge in Syria, of all places!
Sigh…
And here I was planning a trip to Lebanon in a month. Fuckin Hell.
Update: Fares from Free Syria had some strong words to Nasrallah as well:
Are you happy to be without an airport and with all the innocent
children dead? listening to your speech on the radio made me think what
an idiot and you were joking on top of that…You are responsbile for all the Lebanese deaths and damages…Syria
will get its fair chair as well pretty soon because of your idiocy and
the idiocies of your masters!!! Najad and Assad, I tried to say on
Arabya in january looking at their picture together, pair of
Fuckers…but it did not get posted. I was so right, history will judge
them very badly.In fact you might just have digged your and your party of terrorists your own grave.
Arabs wake up and denounce the traitors who willingly burned a
peaceful country trying to survive 30 years of war. Israel is not the
main enemy, lunatics are: Najjad, Bashar, Nasrallah and Mishaal. They
are imitating Saddam’s stupid move when he invaded Kuwait and ended up
destroying Iraq.
Fares, honestly, do you think they are listening?
Update: Some Israeli bloggers, in the spirit of the One blogging World, are dismayed by what's going on and trying to reach out to their arab counterpart. She, from something something, had the following to say:
I think of the bloggers across the Arab blogosphere who have afforded
me the privilege of making their acquaintance, exchanging comments and
emails as we work together to break down barriers, barriers put in
place by those whose greatest fear is the discovery that we are all
merely people and not the monsters they make us out to be. We may not
always agree, but there is both a mutual respect and curiosity that we
have chosen to embrace. Despite the actions of governments and
organizations in our countries, we are trying hard to make our
neighborhood a better place. Now, as I sit here on this train heading
south, I can’t help but wonder, is it all for naught? It is so easy to
forget the big picture as we focus on the relationships, the bridges
being built. We share the same interests, the same tastes in food (who
would have thought that sushi is so popular throughout the Middle
East?), similar musical tastes. Thanks to these bloggers, I have
learned about life in Jordan, in Lebanon, in Egypt, and so on. Never
before have I been in a position to see a trip to Damascus as something
normal, or to discover the excitement and beauty of Beirut.[...]
It’s almost like a drug, and it’s so easy to become addicted, as we get
sucked into a virtual world where disagreements still exist, yet
borders are there to be traversed and not fortified. Then suddenly,
reality comes crashing down as those with the real power make their
presence felt through violence and destruction, and you wonder if your
dreams of normalcy are only childish visions that will never come to
pass. Are we being foolish? Is our bridge-building mere folly, a way to
pass the time while allowing ourselves to think that we can somehow
make a difference? I have no doubt that for the most part, we are all
quite sincere in our quest, but while the perfect sunny skies of summer
in the Middle East are tainted with falling rockets and fresh graves
are dug in the cracked, brown earth, I cannot help but feel that we are
all very small and insignificant as the Nasrallahs of the world show us
who is really controlling the game of life.
Ami, another Israeli blogger, had an open letter to Raja posted on her blog.
And Lisa is wondering when "the folly will end":
If there is one thing we can always count on in the Middle East, it
is this: Just when there are signs of positive developments toward
peace, just when we start to hear the voices of sanity, the extremists
- the madmen with the crazed eyes who are convinced they have a direct
phone line to God (and that God likes to see people kill each other) -
spring into action and take us backward. That is what has been
happening over the last two weeks, starting with the Hamas incursion
from Gaza into Kerem Shalom and culminating yesterday morning with a
Hezbollah "operation" inside Israel's northern border.[...]
I've spent most of the last 24 hours glued to the internet, telephone
and television. My head hurts, my thoughts are in a whirl and I really
don't feel able to write anything cogent or insightful at this point.
All I can think is, "the extremists have won again."Just over
two weeks ago, Abu Mazen and Ehud Olmert met at a breakfast hosted by
King Abdullah in Jordan. They hugged each other and spoke in front of
the cameras about imminent negotiations. A moment of hope. And then the
incident at Kerem Shalom,
followed by the IDF incursion into Gaza. And now Lebanon. Once again, I
wonder how much blood must be spilt before we end this ridiculous,
tragic conflict. And when we will stop warming our hands in front of
the tribal bonfires instead of stepping back and seeing this conflict
for what it is - a game of power played by politicians who really do
not care all that much about the wellbeing of the people whose
interests they claim to protect.
Me and you Lisa. Me and you!
Update: Mustapha has changed his position from "Hezbollah I hate you" to "Hezbollah, I hate you, but I will stand behind you until this is over, and by then I will make you pay". Just don't ask him how he will make them pay. No one in Lebanon knows. Whatever.
I do however agree with him that putting a blockade on Lebanon maritime borders to "stop the inflow of weapons" is stupid . Hello, weapons are coming in from the syrian borders Morons.
Raja and his family are looking for a safe place to hide.
Update: The IDF has a new message to Hezbollah: "If Hedra is hit, we will destroy Beirut Buildings".
"Even if they have thousands, we have at
least 10 times more," the officer clarified. "If they attack Haifa and
Hadera, it will constitute a reason to severely damage Lebanese
infrastructures, including Hizbullah's 20-story buildings inside
Beirut."
However…
According to Eshel, the battle will not end
in "one swoop," but will last for a while. He noted that the Air Force
was aware of the ability and willingness of terror organizations to hit
warplanes, and has prepared accordingly.
Hmmm…
Another Israeli columnist is stating that Israel has no choice but to fight and to win this war, otherwise it will be "the end of Israel."
This is no competition of false machismo.
This is a fateful decision: Even if these two radical Islamic movements
gain symbolic propaganda victories – it could free other enemies around
the Middle East. The need to win this war is absolute. There can be no
debate about it.Hamas and Hizbullah have a lot in common. Neither recognizes
Israel, both organizations are well entrenched in areas Israel
evacuated unilaterally, both are led by charismatic leaders with the
ability to stir up a crowd, and both heap scorn openly on both Israel's
military prowess and Israelis ability to stand up under pressure. And
both have kidnapped soldiers from sovereign Israeli territory and are
holding them in territory they control.If these leaders come out of this war with the upper hand, if
they can rightly wave the flag of victory, Israel will be finished.
Ok, now you are just going to encourage the attackers dude.
In other news, the Beirut airport will be closed for the next 48 houres.
Lebanon said Thursday Beirut airport will
remain shut for at least 48 hours after it was bombarded in Israeli air
strikes in retaliation for the killing and capture of Israeli soldiers
by Hizbullah.
"The airport will be partly operational
within 48 hours, but reopening the airport is a political decision that
will be decided by the cabinet," Transport Minister Mohammad Safadi
told reporters."The runways have all been hit, although some less than others," he said.
[...]
"The closure of the airport has inflicted
losses of five million dollars only for today. This does not include
damages, which will be determined later," an airport official said.
Israel. Stop attacking Lebanon. Leave their buildings alone. It's Syria that you want! Bomb Syria!
Update: Neverminding mr. Drama Queen over here, it seems that there is an overabdunendnce in Bravado emerging from the Israeli side (and we are not even going to mention the field day Netenyaho is having with this). Check this guy's letter to Shailat's father out, where he informs him that his son's life is not worth the releasing of Killers:
Indeed, according to Zev Dasberg, an
attorney by profession and the head of the Israel Institute for the
Research on Terror Victims, more than fifty people have been murdered
in cold blood by killers who were freed by Israel in previous
"gestures" when convicted killers were freed over the past five years.I also write as a father who currently has a son serving in an IDF
army combat unit not far from Gaza. My son, Elchanon, made just one
request before he was drafted: Please do not trade any murderers in
exchange for me, in case I am captured. As much as it would pain me to
do so, I would honor my son's request.
Hmmm. Fantastic Mr. Bedein. Your have a bigger Penis than Shilat's father. Good for you! Now fuck off!
Update: World leaders' reactions are always interesting. Don't you think? Well, I think so. Here is a round-up:
Bush on Hezbollah:
"My attitude is this: there are a group of terrorists who want to stop
the advance of peace," he said. "Those of us who are peace living must
work together to help the agents of peace."
I agree with Dubya. Is that bad?
France position is, well, what you expect it to be:
France criticized Israel's campaign in Lebanon, including
the attack on the airport, as "a disproportionate act of war."
Guess that was a fluke.
Iran urges restraint. Ha! Gotcha! Just kidding:
The comment came after Iran's top national security official, Ali
Larijani, had met Palestinian groups to voice the Islamic republic's
"decisive support" for their battle against Israel. "The Zionists and their protectors are the most detested people in all
of humanity, and the hatred is increasing every day," the president was
quoted as saying by Iranian state television."The worse their crimes, the quicker they will fall," added
Ahmadinejad, who has already called for the Jewish state to be "wiped
off the map" and relocated as far away as Alaska.
Elequont as always A.J.!
July 13th, 2006 at 9:19 am
of course the Lebanese bloggers want Israel to attack Syria (who wants their own country to be bombed? their people dying?) and at the same time talking about Israel with no respect (as if Israel have been behaving as an aggressor by pulling out of South Lebanon and Gaza)…. But what were they doing voting hezbolah into government coalition? What were the people of Gaza and the West Bank doing voting Hamas into power? Yes, they were expressing their preferences…
July 13th, 2006 at 9:34 am
They should reoccupy southern Lebanon just like before. One difference: they should occupy the entire southern half of Lebanon and start building settlements - maybe even invite the Lebanese Druze to form a microstate of their own in formerly Shia territory. They should permanently annex 50% of Lebanon. We will see how pretty Hezbollah is sitting after their entire base of support is living in squalid Café Annan-administered refugee camps in what is left of independent northern Lebanon.
And if the chinless optometrist from Damascus wants to still his goofy fuckin’ face into this conflict: nuke ‘em.
More reporting links:
Palestinians grow up:
http://www.theaugeanstables.com/2006/07/11/arabs-to-palestinians-grow-up/
The Palestinians are arguably the most foolish people in the world when it comes to making decisions that are beneficial to their own welfare, so I don’t expect them to heed this man’s advice.
Counterterrorism blog sees our old friend (at least to those who follow these sort of things) Imad Mugniyeh behind the abduction. This is the shithead originally responsible for CIA station chief William Buckley’s torture and murder in Lebanon during the 1980s. This clown needs to be the target of some serious intelligence work by Israel and the United States - preferably ending with a fatal car bombing (or worse) somewhere in Iran - actually I would prefer that he was the victim of a CIA “rendition” preferably with him winding up in some third party Arab country where he can be effectively “questioned” about Iranian and Hezbollah activities:
http://counterterrorismblog.org/2006/07/imad_mugniyah_likely_behind_th.php
July 13th, 2006 at 9:35 am
Your disregard of life shocks me “it just doesn’t look good in the international community’s eyes” is this only reason to refrain from carpet bombing civilians !!!!!!!!!!
However, I agree with you that if some place is to be bombed it is where basher and his gang are. Unlawful leaders must be held accountable for their actions not children.
July 13th, 2006 at 9:39 am
War takes organization and preparation, therefore it amazes me how so many people judge Israel’s reaction by the first twenty four hours of a crisis. I think that Israel’s only choice is to erase hezbollah from southern Lebanon and let the Lebanonese army finally take control of that area; and to attack and destroy the Assad regime. The puppetmaster, Iran, will lose its two puppets and will look ridiculous to the rest of the Muslim world when they have no power to respond to Israel. Any move by the Iranian armed forces will force the US Navy to protect the movement of oil by destroying anything Iranian above or below the Gulf; and any Iranian military installation within a certain distance of the Gulf.
The world will embargo Iranian oil and bring Iran to its financial knees very quickly. It was the Iranian move on the chess board to prolong and extend the Gaza crisis when Muburak had an agreement in hand…it will turn out to be a bad move.
July 13th, 2006 at 9:41 am
Hizbollah and the Gaza debacles have now demonstrated to Israelis that if they pull out of territory, rockets will be fired from there and Israeli soldiers will be kidnapped. South lebanon and Gaza make this two for two.
Thing is, this is exactly what all the Islamists want. They want the Israelis to stop with concilliatory gestures that might tempt Palestinians away from maximaliist objectives. The timing of the Lebanese front kidnappings bears this out: it is beyond solidarity with captured prisoners or Gazans. It is a practical response to the maximalist call to create conditions that make compromise impossible.
July 13th, 2006 at 10:18 am
People speaking up on Elaph
July 13th, 2006 at 10:53 am
My opinion as to the best scenario here? For all involved? The Lebanese military should finally step in, and attack Hezbollah until all that’s left of it is a wet stain in South Lebanon. Heck, these guys got Lebanon into a war, a war Lebanon does *not* want.
And why does it look to me like Hezbollah, once the Israeli offensive gets a bit too hot for them, will call in Syria to “help out their neighbor against the Zionist agressors”. In fact, why does it look to me like Hezbollah will sell Lebanon to Assad if they only get the chance?
July 13th, 2006 at 11:05 am
rock on hizballah!
July 13th, 2006 at 11:20 am
Israel will destroy hezbollah. The rockets are a concern but they cannot be permanently there. We saw already the damage they cause. They will be destroyed.
This is one of the most intelligent things anyone has said here:
“of course the Lebanese bloggers want Israel to attack Syria (who wants their own country to be bombed? their people dying?) and at the same time talking about Israel with no respect (as if Israel have been behaving as an aggressor by pulling out of South Lebanon and Gaza)…. ” [hettie]
Yes, Lebanese people stop behaving like you want your slave Israel to solve the problem for you and then accuse it of “Zionist criminals”.
If we bomb hezbollah it will be for us, not for you. The Lebanese Army should help Israel, not accuse it. If they decide to watch this from afar, they will lose their country.
July 13th, 2006 at 12:01 pm
Thats the stupidest response I’ve heard today. Hezbollah attacks us, so Lebanon will lose their country. People seem to think that the Lebanese army is capable of stopping this from escalating; the reason Hezbollah feels free to do whatever they want is because nobody in Lebanon can stop them. Either way, Israel doesn’t seem to have any intention of protecting itself from further attacks or getting rid of terrorism. It doesnt take a genius to know that if you kill a few Arabs, they’re going to continue to attack you, whether or not it does any significant harm to Israel, the attacks will continue. I’m so happy I’ll be out of the Middle East in a week, Israeli or Arab, they have the same levels of ignorance with unequal levels of power.
July 13th, 2006 at 12:49 pm
This whole thing is sick. What teh fuck is going on? who’s on who’s side? Forgive my lack of any eloquence here but ‘fuckin sick’ is really the only appropriate term I can come up with here.
I dislike and distrust Olmert and Peretz and have little faith in their knowing what to do or how to do it. Aside for the fact that Olmert is a dirty little career politician he’s also hampered by the fact that he sees the events of the past three weeks as matters to be viewed independantly of all else in the history of Israel, the Middle East, Jewish history andworld history in general. He’s a career politician and he’s an idiot.
Again - I don’t have the least bit of sympathy for some apologist for Hizballah/Hamas getting blown to bits and I think the world would be a whole lot better for it - but what exactly is going on? How exactly are we going to get our captured children back through bombing Beirut?
Forgive my ranting. My solutrion to the matter doesn’t relate to “current events” or the latest happenings but to a more gestalt look at matters pertaining to peace, democracy and the right of the Jewish people to be left the fuck alone. My solutions aren’t the kind of thing that would solve this current Hiz/Ham so that we can all get back to some mythical “peace process”.
There’s a waste of life taking place and I can’t for the life of me see how any of this is in the best interest of the Jewish people.
It appears to me that the only two possible solutions to Israel’s problem with the Arabs are the extreme left and the extreme right. The Extreme left involves capitulation and apologies and the eventual destruction of the Jews’ only refuge with the surviving Jews packing out and preparing themselves for the gas chambers (and trust me, my friend, they won’t be long in coming). We’ve been on this path, more or less, since 1993. And indeed, it will eventually solve Israel’s problems with the Arabs. This being the case though, Israel’s aggression and “fighting back” is a stupid hindrance to the plan that’s already in motion - and I, for one, prefer a quick death.
The extreme right involves knowing that you’re right. You’re morally right. You know your history. You know the enemy’s death-cult disease. You are Gaon V’nadiv V’Achzar and - with wisdom and lovingkindness toward all - you declare that you won’t take any more shit. and then you Don’t take that shit.
You don’t “give back” parts of your homeland that were used as bases to attack you without provocation. You don’t repeatedly apologise for the “transfer” of a native fifth-column that was brought about by a war of aggressiona against you and that was just one of a dozen transfers of population that took place that decade. And you don’t allow “people” like Ahmedinijad to prance around Nazilike and threaten you with extermination. What other people allow such things against them?
You take a fuckin stand.
BUT WHAT THE FUCK IS THE PURPOSE OF DESTROYING LEBANON? Do we need more enemies and more wars? If you’re going to fuckin “end it” once and for all, then do so. But what - oh Olmert, what the fuck is your plan? I’M ALL FOR KILLING. But kill the goddamned right people you pussy!
p.s. If I’m wrong and the Lebanese government has the ability to reign in Hizballah but just chooses not to do so then I retract this post and entirely support their destruction.
July 13th, 2006 at 12:59 pm
SAM, don’t think at all that Hezbollah is very powerful when it comes to rockets. Hezbollah have two kind of rockets: some are small and easy to smuggle and to fire, but these are relatively innefective. The bigger, long range rockets are relatively easier to detect and their launching take more time which is why Hezbollah has to hide them. The Israeli have spy planes and satellites over all Lebanon and their high-tech communication system means that their air force is very reactive meaning that they only need a few minutes between acquiring a target and firing at them. I read that their target acquisition system is the most advanced in the world after the US.
This is why this monkey Nasrallah is keeping his big rockets hidden, and this is why the Israelis always violate the Lebanese Air space, so that they can monitor the military activity in our country in real time.
July 13th, 2006 at 1:17 pm
Hey all. While I totally agree with bombing the shit out of Hezbollah, I feel that the way Israel is handling it’s business is to heavy handed on civilians. They lost my support when they went after civil infrastructure, instead of just targeting the Hezbollah leadership. It is clear that Lebanon and most of its population are unable to do anything about Hezbollah and it’s masters Syria and Iran from screwing them over. Last year we saw that most of the Lebanese people want peace, stability and to be left alone from foreign meddling. So instead of bombing the shit out of Lebanon’s newly build infrastructure, Israel should really target Hezbollah at there address in Syria. Hey IDF if you need directions to Damascus, give me a call……..
July 13th, 2006 at 1:17 pm
Vox P is 100% right here. Katyushas might wound and kill people, but it takes a truly huge number of them to actually do so. Plus, this range is crap. The larger long-range missiles Hezbolla has, like any other long-range missile, require a bit more effort put into getting them on their way, so to speak. Put enough fighter jets at ready, and Hezbolla’s shiny toys will be toast the moment they try to use them. Heck, I’m guessing we know where most of them are as it is by now, so an operation to clear them out will be mounted once we’re ready to do so.
July 13th, 2006 at 1:22 pm
Correction: should be ‘their range’, not ‘this range’.
July 13th, 2006 at 1:29 pm
Even if the Lebanese army doesn’t have the necessary strength to rid itself of Hizbollah, acting in concert with Israeli forces could solve the problem.
I have a question for Egyptians and Jordanians, did you like when your country and citizens were the victims of terrorists? Did you call for your country to do something?
Why should it be any different for Israel? Hizbollah provoked those attacks. And while it may seem that the Israelis are randomly targeting infrastructure in Lebanon, the targets do have stratigic value. By bombing bridges, it keeps the kidnapped soldiers from being taken into deeper territory. By bombing electrical utilities, it interrupts enemy communications.
The Lebanese people acted in concert last year to get Syrian forces to leave. Much the same could be done with Hizbollah. Wouldn’t it be interesting for the Lebanese Army to fight with the Israelis to get the cancer of Hizbollah out of Lebanon?
July 13th, 2006 at 1:32 pm
The war mongering of Israelis have started. The aggression, oppression, killings of civilians is nothing new to the Israeli politicians
“BUT WHAT THE FUCK IS THE PURPOSE OF DESTROYING LEBANON? Do we need more enemies and more wars? If you’re going to fuckin “end it” once and for all, then do so. But what - oh Olmert, what the fuck is your plan? I’M ALL FOR KILLING. But kill the goddamned right people you pussy!”
DITTO!!!!!!!!!
July 13th, 2006 at 1:39 pm
What strategic value does bombing the airport in Beirut have, seawitch? Just as you said, the Lebanese people do not feel they should be punished for this, and they feel theyre being terrorrised by the Israeli’s. How would you feel if a European nation decided to take out a major airport in Israel? Obviously, both sides could claim they’ve been attacked and demand revenge, but why start a viscious cycle like that? Who’s interest is that in?
July 13th, 2006 at 1:43 pm
I assumed that you are Israeli, and I realize I may be wrong, but I think my point still stands, suicide bombings and kidnappings are not the only form of terrorism, and Lebanon is not an enemy of Israel, Hezbollah is, however that could easily change over the next few days. The Lebanese people worked in concert to rid themselves of the Syrians, true, but Hezbollah acted alone in provoking Israel, and the Lebanese people should not have to be punished for that.
July 13th, 2006 at 2:02 pm
35 civilians killed so far.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/5175418.stm
July 13th, 2006 at 2:08 pm
Just closed the tag I accidently left open.
July 13th, 2006 at 2:11 pm
It is interesting how Lebanese sympathizers want to tell the world that they are not responsible for a militant group attacking another country FROM THEIR SOVERIGN COUNTRY. When, exactly, did Lebanon call on the free world to rid their territory of such a cancer? THEY DID NOT! On the contrary, they allowed this group to become a part of their government.
While I have great affection for the Lebanese people and their efforts to rid themselves of Syrian influence, it seems to me that they were O.K. with letting a rabid dog live in the southern portion of their country funded by outside sources.
Where was the outrage before this latest act of agression? Did Lebanon go to the U.N. and ask for relief from the Hezbollah menace, no… Now, however, they question the retaliation of their neighbor country. Why disable the airport? So supplies can not come into the country to fuel Hezbollah and, yes, to make the point clear to the Lebanese that they must deal with the cancer in their midst if they want to live in peace (and have all those happy tourists visit their shores).
While I agree that Syria holds the keys to this situation, I also think that Lebanon has disregarded the Hezbollah. This was never in their best interest.
I would be willing to change my mind if the Lebanese peole demand their gov’t do something about Hizbollah, even if the gov’t is not strong enough to rid the country of their influence. At the very least, they could cooperate with Israel to rid the region of this menace. Gasp! Cooperate with Israel?
July 13th, 2006 at 2:21 pm
I second what Babs said. Like it or not, Lebanon is responsible for Hezbollah, not only because they are operating from Lebanese soil, but moreso because they are part of the Lebanese goverment.
Pardon me, but that’s not exactly normal. You don’t let a bloodthirsty pack of marauders operate from within your country, let them join your goverment, and then wash your hands of them. Yes, Hezbollah are powerful. Yes, Lebanon is unable to get rid of Hezbollah on its own, but frankly…
Frankly, it doesn’t look to me like Lebanese were even considering asking anyone else for help. Maybe it’s being occupied by various countries that got that mentality in. Better our bastards than someone else’s, and so on. That doesn’t make Lebanon any less responsible, though, and if the Lebanese goverment is not mature enough to finally disown this bastard child and throw him out of the house, then the Lebanese people will end up paying the price. You did elect them, be it Hezbollah or just those who agreed to put up with it.
July 13th, 2006 at 2:30 pm
Lebanon is tolerating Hezbollah’s presence. Why shouldnt they hit Lebanon? True, Syria is the true source.. but the source of the rockets attacking their civilians IS Lebanon.
July 13th, 2006 at 2:33 pm
Twosret, you may agree with me on the matter of two sentences taken out of context (and I’m honored to be so agreeable) but I think it’s rather clear that you and I DO NOT agree at all on the major issues.
Nonetheless, I’ll be happy to agree to disagree - can we shake on that?
mnuez
p.s. If you consider the matter objectively (though I distinctly doubt you will) I think you would have no choice but to agree that Israel is the most moral country in the world when it comes to dealing with those who seek the destruction of her citizens. In fact, I dare you to show me any other country, anyplace, that has responded with more measured force to the type of terror against civilians that Israel has faced since its birth.
I think on this matter (as an example) we would have to agree to disagree (though I do wish you would mentally step back from your prejudices and honestly reconsider).
July 13th, 2006 at 2:45 pm
Visit my blog for articles on the current events.
http://egyptianobserver.blogspot.com
July 13th, 2006 at 2:47 pm
So bombing the airport stops supplies from reaching Hezbollah? I’m not sure what supplies are being transported to Hezbollah through the airport in Beirut, I’d imagine that any supplies which the Israeli’s would want to keep from Hezbollah would be trafficked across the borders, probably from Syria. Regardless, I don’t think theres a justification for bombing the airport, unless people can identify what it is that is being blocked from reaching Hezbollah.
On the issue of responsibility, its true, they are part of the Lebanese government. Not sure how many members are in parliament but I understand that even if there was just one it would still involve the Lebanese government in this conflict. The problem is, however, that Hezbollah is strong, strong enough to demand a place in the government, simply because, who is going to kick them out? The Lebanese army? The international community? I’m not necessarily a sympathiser with the Lebanese, and I would feel no anger should the leaders of Hezbollah be killed within the next few weeks, along with anyone who choses to support them or played a part in starting this series’ of conflicts. I do believe that the Israeli response has not been proportionate, but I understand that this is the nature of international politics today. My problem is that Israel really aren’t doing themselves any favors. So they destroy Lebanon, then what? Will the problem be gone? Will Hezbollah give up the solidiers? Will Israel be terrorist free, and will the order in the region be restored, as the Israeli’s have said is their intention? Will Israel never have to face Lebanese aggression again, whether in the form of Hezbollah “resistance movements” or through a new movement sparked by these events? I honestly don’t believe one can answer yes to these questions, and I believe in order for Israeli actions to be justified, they need to be able to answer yes to these questions, otherwise, what are their ultimate goals? While I wouldnt expect a nation to show any compation in a situation like this, if this is the state of the world today, where violence is met with greater violence, how will we ever be able to live in peace? A few weeks from now, there will still be Arabs, and there will still be Israeli’s, and there will still be strong feelings of hostility on each side, so what happens then, Israel destroys another nation? Hezbollah kidnaps more terrorists? If I believed that the people executing these actions on both sides were able to justify to themselves that they were acting in the best interest of their nations, I would not speak, simply because you must expect each nation to look after its own interests. But this is not in Israel’s interest, and that is why I dont understand their actions.
July 13th, 2006 at 3:01 pm
“so what happens then, Israel destroys another nation? ”
Which “nation” has Israel destroyed so far???
I swear to God, the Palestinians are the most suicidal culture I have ever investigated. It should be so clear to everyone by now that while Israel has built a vibrant culture (more patents per capita than any other nation on earth) the Palestinians continue to live on hand outs in a sh*t hole… Check out the filth in the streets. This is a real sign of the state of a society. Hell, when I find trash outside my home I pick it up! Even when I lived in a flat I picked trash up outside my building.
Breaking, Hezbollah just shelled a northern Israeli city, killing a few and wounding many. This is why? Because Israel wants its kidnapped soldier/citizens returned?
Israel is now employing the same strategy in the north that they have been employing in Gaza; that is to cut off resources to southern Lebanon (as they have in northern Gaza) and clear a buffer zone so their SOVERIGN TERRITORY is not subject to missle attacks… Golan Heights anyone???
July 13th, 2006 at 3:10 pm
Well, Israel said they’d destroy Lebanon, there are quotes supporting this, just look on the major news websites. Also, I dont think I ever mentioned Palestine, which is weird becaue you did. I was refferring to Lebanon, and Hezbollah, since they are part of Lebanon.
I’m not sure if you feel I’m Palestinian, or if you just would like to insult them. Either way, “filth on the streets” is a great argument for Palestinians being suicidal. Not sure if anybody here has questioned whether or not Israel is vibrant, and it would be pretty hard to argue that Palestine is a better state (or a state at all) than Israel.
But it’s good that you pick up the trash outside your home, even when you lived in a flat and you picked it up outside of your building. Because we all know that that IS the “real sign of the state of a society.”
July 13th, 2006 at 3:23 pm
Excuse me, but some of you are talking like Hezbollah are people from another Country. Correct me if I am wrong, but are they not citizens of Lebanon….living in Lebanon….attacking Israel from Lebanon?! When the attacks start coming from Syrian soil, then Israel should deal with the Syrians (and yes…I know they are funding Hezbollah)
July 13th, 2006 at 3:42 pm
Hey Karim - Linky me the “quotes” where the Israel gov’t said they were going to “destroy” Lebanon…
Insult Palestinians??? Because they live in a squalor of their own filth??? They insult themselves.
And, I understand that you are being sarcastic to me when you challenge my theory that living in filth is a sign of the health of a society. I’m so sorry to tell you that it is true.
As to your nationality, I have no clue.
So, Karim, do you want to treat the argression on Israel’s southern and northern borders as isolated incidents? (Pay no attention to what is happening in the south/north, they have nothing to do with each other?)
July 13th, 2006 at 3:58 pm
As a U.S. R.O.T.C. cadet in 9/90, I was asked by the school paper about whether I feared going to war with Iraq, thoughts on a draft, etc. I still have the article somewhere, so I can back myself up, but I said: 1) no draft; and 2) it’ll be over pretty quick b/c Iraq really sucks. (Well, that’s the short version) This when everyone was predicting Ragnarok and Vietnam all over again. We bombed ‘em for a few weeks and had a 100 hour ground war. So I trust my instincts.
Israel is going to take this to Syria, directly. It has to make the strategic feint into Lebanon first. It has to make tactical attacks in Lebanon first. It also needs to shore up its contacts in Syria. In context, the Allies planned D-Day for a year and a half. Keep in mind that twice before (’67, ‘73), Israel could have rolled a few armored divisions right down the road to Damascus, but didn’t. As Israel sees it, it’s time for regime change and there’s only one way to do it - (you) Arabs seem to respect force, well, it’s coming. As SM mentioned, undoubtedly there are a lot of Syrians who are itching to get rid of the Allawites, who make up even less of the country than do the Sunnis in Iraq. Maybe a future-minded general will step up and seize power under the aegis that it’s time to spend Syria’s money on Syrians. Or maybe it will devolve into civil war; either outcome takes heat off Israel.
Iran won’t do shit. Iran does not have the capability to take offensive action against Israel other than asymmetrically, and if Israel’s forward air base is in Northern Syria, it doesn’t dare provoke it. Israel wouldn’t attempt any land action against Iran, but airstrikes? Iranian rules are also going to find it kind of tough to travel outside Iran by air. Iran won’t do shit because it does shit through others.
Just for thought, a destabilized Syria could lead to a broader Kurdistan though northern Syria, iraq, and western Iran. That’d give Turkey fits, but it might be possible for Turkey to buy out Kurdish rebellion in eastern Turkey by helping fund the nascent Kurdish state. That’s a bit far out to project, but with Syria out, Hez & Hamas have no regional sponsors so it becomes just a matter of time before they’re ground down.
Syria’s sidelining takes a lot of wind out of the terrorists in Iraq, allowing the U.S. to focus assets on the Iranian border (which also helps with the propaganda/G-2 situation). With Syria and Lebanon pulling ahead of Iraq in stabilizing peacefully, momentum swings to the government in Iraq. Then Abbas and his crew really become the odd man out in the ME and as a practical matter will be forced to make peace; if only because they have nothing left to fight with. As Lebanon, Syria, and Iraq rebuild countries where people actually can enjoy life, they’ll be turning their backs on people who could have had all that a decade ago but fucked it up. Ergo….
It’d be awfully ironic if a strong and assertive Israel led to peace and prosperity in the ME, and it all started because some pipsqueak decided to grab a soldier.
July 13th, 2006 at 4:03 pm
I think something is being overlooked here: Hizbollah does not exist outside of the civilian infrastructure of Lebanon. They don’t live in castles, grow their own food, weave their own clothes, print their own money etc. These activities take place within Lebanese society. Some people are not realizing that ’surgical’ military operations are not possible across a border — it’s one thing to try and kill Hamas assholes when there are soldiers and intelligence officers throughout the W Bank and Gaza and another thing to try and target well hidden, more experienced Hizbollah assholes across a border with far less resources available.
I know it sounds gruesome — and it is — but war is not just about the military: civilians are always involved. Lebanon did not oust Hizbollah: militarily, economically, or really in any other way and the civilian government of Lebanon bares part of the responsibility for Hizbollah’s actions. What do you expect Israel to do? Hizbollah is physically attacking from Lebanon, Israel can’t ignore that and just attack Syria. Actually, they should do both, attack the direct (Hizbollah) and indirect (Syria) sources. Unfortunately, attacking Hizbollah means harming Lebanon. Israel should be very careful not to go too far but they must respond in Lebanon. Just my two cents.
July 13th, 2006 at 4:16 pm
Well, I think they are isolated incidents, unless something shows up that proves me wrong. I assume your talking about the two incidents of kidnappings. It makes sense that Israel would want to get its soldier’s back, and would want to hold someone responsible for what has been going on. And if they can justify holding Lebanon responsible, which I guess they can since Hezbollah is part of the Lebanese government, then their actions towards teh government seem justified in this context. However, “turning the clock back 20 years in Lebanon”, just doesn’t seem appropriate to me, not because of the potential of mass casualties, not because its not “humane”, but because I just dont think that it serves the purpose of the Israeli’s. I would assume that they want to A) make sure they are not attacked again, specifically in this case on their borders, since this is where the incidents happened, and B) make sure that the people who acted against them realize that Israel won’t sit back and allow acts of aggression to be committed against them, at least this is the way I see it and I suppose I could be wrong, but I think those are two things they will want to accomplish. Going into Lebanon, bombing Beirut, and threatening to bomb suburbs and even enter Lebanon, in my opinion, will only create more hostility towards the state from Lebanese who were not responsible for the kidnappings but will feel responsible for defending their nation. Whether or not Lebanon has handled Hezbollah properly or not, Hezbollah are the ones who attacked Israel, and I think that it would be more effective for Israel to focus on attacking Hezbollah specifically. I don’t believe the Airport and several bridges are going to stop Hezbollah from continuinig to operate. I havent heard a convincing argument yet that would justify those attacks.
You may ask why should Israel be responsible for dealing with Hezbollah, and not the Lebanese, and I’d say that because of the fact that the Lebanese government WILL NOT do anything about Hezbollah, Israel needs to focus on them, for their own security. By bombing Beirut, they’ve effectively declared war against the entire country, but have not addressed the issue of Hezbollah head on, so my question is why would they risk creating more enemies than taking care of the ones who are directly responsible for the attacks, Hezbollah?
July 13th, 2006 at 4:29 pm
Amgad,
Your disregard of life shocks me “it just doesn’t look good in the international community’s eyes” is this only reason to refrain from carpet bombing civilians !!!!!!!!!!
If HAMAS or Hezbollah had a B-52 fleet and an enlsess supply of 200 pouund bombs, what woiuld they do with them?
Be honest.
July 13th, 2006 at 4:33 pm
Karim,
So bombing the airport stops supplies from reaching Hezbollah?
No. Israel first bombed bridges, Then they bombed the airport and blockaded the ports. Why? To keep Hezbollah from shipping the two captured Israeli soldiers to Iran, where they could be used for Propaganda purposes for years to come, without Israel being able to do anything about it. They want the situation resolved one way or another in Lebanon.
July 13th, 2006 at 4:45 pm
SM,
It is easy for you to go for the option of attacking Syria. Syria has chemical weapons and will not hesitate to use them.
There are no good options. What Israel is doing is the least worst option. Labanese Government should take responsibility and act against Hesbollah. That would stop Israel’s action.
Oh, wait, Lebanese Government includes Hesbollah…
This is just awful for Lebanon as well as Israel, but the Lebanese politicans have brought this onto themselves.
July 13th, 2006 at 4:57 pm
When Israel’s enemies don’t wear uniforms, send out retarded kids in suicide vests, and strap explosives on women, which they do, OF COURSE the Israelis are going to have to “kill civilians.”
But then, the definition of civilian has become meaningless.
July 13th, 2006 at 5:08 pm
Craig,
I honestly don’t believe that they would have shipped the soldiers to Iran. And even if this was their intention, the airport is still partially functional, so it would still be possible, but it won’t happen.
A more likely reason for the bombing of the airport would be because Lebanon loses around 5 million dollars every day that the airport does not function, read that in a BBC article that i’ll try to find now. The bridges I understand now, help isolate Hezbollah and keep them in Lebanon, so I was wrong about that. But I doubt they wouldve sent the soldiers to Iran, however if you have evidence suggesting otherwise I guess I’m wrong.
July 13th, 2006 at 5:09 pm
When you need him?!
July 13th, 2006 at 5:09 pm
Dear Babs,
Hello Princess
It seems to me you are American. How do I know? Well, you cross me as arrogant, selfish, and lazy..oh, and stupid. Your arguement about a country is not civilized because it has trash is ridiculous. If that is the case, then I believe the United States is the most uncivilized country in the world, at least until all of its White Trash citizens are taken out of it. Oh, and lets not forget the Spicks that people ridicule continuously, and the dirty n*ggers that terrorize the streets. Take them out, and we’ll have a perfectly functioning society.
Let me draw it out for you-
What your saying is:
Nation - trash = civilized
Nation = people
Trash is a byproduct of people (meaning no people, no trash, implying that people are trash)
So, if we remove people (White Trash, Spicks, N*ggers, etc) we will have no trash, giving us a civilized nation.
Here is the thing though, how in the fuck can you have a country, a nation of people when there is no one to populate it and call it their own?
July 13th, 2006 at 5:22 pm
What strategic value does bombing the airport in Beirut have, seawitch?
Allow me to interject. The airport is a major conduit for weapons, cash, and equipment going to Hezbollah.
If the Lebanese government doesn’t like getting its airport hit, it should have prevented Hezbollah’s use of it.
Another small step the dumbasses in Lebanon could have but failed to take against Hezbollah.
More articles:
Shame on Bush?
http://tammybruce.com/2006/07/world_leaders_urge.php
Has the war with Iran begun?
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/
July 13th, 2006 at 5:33 pm
hihihihi, come on eee !
July 13th, 2006 at 5:42 pm
No one’s gotten it up here yet, but one of your last updates has come true: Katyushas just hit Haifa.
July 13th, 2006 at 5:59 pm
Karim:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/738310.html
July 13th, 2006 at 6:00 pm
One of the 7 initial casulaties is a friend of my brother-in-law’s. I am up north now, listening to the booms.
The IDF did not react well in the first while. Now it’s time for massive airstrikes, for cluster shells and artillery barrages like it’s 1942.
And then it’s time for Syria to pay. And the Iran.
And if the Palestinians will be stupid enough to think it’s a good time to attack us with more strength… which they are… well, tim