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Thursday, 13 Jul 2006
….and let's slip the dogs of war.
*SCROLL DOWN FOR UPDATES*
Good morning everyone. It's time for us to resume our coverage of the little egomanical exercise in insanity called the Hezbollah kidnappings of Israeli soldiers , and the Israeli "We don't know how the fuck to respond but let's bomb everything" retaliation Policy. The region is ruled by insanity, madness beckons, and War is on everyone's mind. No one is surprised though. After all, in the middle east, this is business as usual.
The responses of the people in Egypt are…interesting. My dad's view is that comic sadness "Those poor lebanese. Every single time they rebuild Beirut, it gets destroyed, so they rebuild it again, and it gets destroyed again. It's like a Seesaw!", while my co-worker H. response is of "We should go to War, and attack Israel, if we have any sembelnce of diginity or self-respect. War War war, rah rah rah, blah blah blah", all said while he lounges confortably in his leather chair, in an airconditioned Office, while sipping on the morning Coffee that the Office-boys have made them. I love Chair-warriors, you know, the people who egg on the war from their desks. Of course they are cheering Hezbollah, what do they have to lose?
The interesting and new thing is the view that Israel can not do shit, one that is held by the political, combat and strategic warfare analysts and experts that occupy our accounting department. It goes something like this: Israel can't do shit, because for the first time Hezbollah's rockets are capable of attacking them inside their territories. That they are not attacking Hezbollah's outposts because they can't afford to, which is why they blow up the airports and the powergrids, because they can't really attack Hezbollah. Jamal, a lebanese blogger, shares their same sentiment that this is all but a strom in a teacup:
Hezbollah did their thing in the morning and and then sat back and watched . Israel hit roads and nothing else.
Why?
Because any further escalation would give Hezbollah the right (per the April 1996 Agreement) to hit back.
Power station for power station. Tourist season for Tourist Season.
Israel
knows Hezbollah rockets are in place, ready, aimed and can reach deep
into Israel. 15,000 of them. And that's even before the "surprise".Israel
had to retaliate. No way they could let an act of aggression by
Hezbollah go "unpunished." So they barked, hit roads, and killed
civilians. In the end they will sit down and negotiate.Hezbollah
acted unilaterally and they will get some criticism for it in Lebanon,
especially for endangering the precious tourist season. However,
regionally they got millions of admirers for being the only group in
the world to do something about the rape of Gaza. Sure, Nasrallah
insists today was all about Lebanon and Lebanese POWs, but who is he
kidding.
It wasn't and there is no shame in that.At the end
of the day Hezbollah proves they are strong, very strong actually, and
Israel is not used to dealing with a strong foe.
Hmmm……….
Now, since we are all strategic warfare experts here, the question begs itself, what should Israel do? Should they lay down their arms, and be forever humiliated by Hezbollah? Should they move the ground forces into Lebanon, and engage in Guerilla warfare on Hezbollah territory? Or should they just resort to the Kosovo option, and Carpet bomb Southern Lebanon to the stone age? Or should they just attack Syria, because let's face it, they are the ones behind that shit anyway?
Well, laying down the arms and open negotiations is a humiliating but viable option, altough it will encourage future kidnappings to get future concessions, so they will probably say no to that. The ground forces move? Maybe good to estbalish a buffer zone to stop missile attacks into Israel, but the lives saved from getting kileld by a rocket will have an equal life lost on the battlefield with Hezbollah. The Kosovo option is viable, and offers the lowest casualty rate on the Israeli side, but thousands of Lebanese people will do, who, while they may be Hezbollah supporters, ehh, it just doesn't look good in the inetrnational community's eyes. But then again, since when does Israel care what the world says anyway? It's not like they were ever on their side. Right?
This leaves us with the "Let's Bomb Syria" option, and inetrestingly, that's the one favored by a lebanese blogger as well:
Some independent people in Lebanon might start thinking that the
only solution is to move the conflict to Syria and Iran. The country is
on the brink of destruction, especially after the Israeli prime
minister threatened to take the country back 20 years. Hizbullah and
the cabinet do not care enough. It is unlikely that the international
community will save Lebanon now. Why should they? Even Saad Hariri’s
media has gone soft on Hizbullah all of a sudden. So the only logical
thing for some might be to actively support forces opposed to the Assad
regime and Tehran. Since the Lebanese army is not interested in
defending the Lebanese state, then some free Lebanese might consider
funding and arming militant units to work on Syrian and Iranian
territories, targeting Syrian and Iranian infrastructure. There is no
reason why Lebanon should lose bridges and Damascus and Tehran don’t.
After all, we are all in this together, right?As for Israel’s leaders, perhaps they should listen to Nasrallah for
once. Bombing Lebanon will not deter anyone. Olmert is a wimp with
high-tech war toys. A mighty power such as Israel has to go after the
real source and stop the cheap targeting of Lebanese infrastructure and
civilians. But Israeli leaders are still choosing the easy way out.
Instead of picking enemies their own size in Damascus and Tehran, they
pick to destroy the livelihood of innocents and kill and maim
civilians, feeding the backward resistance culture that pervades the
region. The scale of the Israeli retaliation today, Lebanese
responsibility aside, was cowardly. If Hizbullah showers them with
rockets, then they have asked for it. Their army was even humiliated by
Hizbullah fighters, so they took it out on bridges and roads, harming
the interests of the same people that Hizbullah has hijacked with their
help. This will serve to reinforce Israel’s image as a terrorist bully
in a region of masochists.
that same call is repeated by him again here:
YOU GOT WHAT YOU WANTED NASRALLAH.
NOW SHOW US WHAT YOU CAN DO.
SHOW US YOUR MIGHT.
USE THOSE ROCKETS.
LEBANON IS BEING DESTROYED AND ALL I CAN THINK OF IS YOUR FACE:
DAMN YOU.
AS FOR THE ISRAELI COWARDS, GO FLEX YOUR MUSCLES IN DAMASCUS AND TEHRAN. COWARDS.
This move would make the best strategic sense for Israel and Lebanon. If they managed to bomb Syria and kill Bashar, a power struggle will emerge in the syrian government and the revolution that all the sects want to engage in against the alawites will take place. The In-fighting would cut-off military support to Hezbollah, but would also free Lebanon from syrian tutelage, and would wekaon Hezbollah to he degree that it can;t bully the otehr lebanese sects anymore, allowing the lebanese to finally move forward. As Big Pharoh quoted one of the leabense commenters on an FPM site: " This could be a positive for Lebanon. Israel might disarm Hezbollah for them."
The sentiments on the rest of the lebanese blogsphere, while may not be calling for the bombing of Syria yet, are definitely very angry at Hezbollah. Mustapha calls their actions a "Fatal overreach":
We are all supposed to cheer the “achievement” of capturing two Israeli
soldiers by our heroic resistance. From a pure technical perspective,
it is an achievement indeed; who else can capture two soldiers of one
of the most powerful armies in the world?But since when was Hezbollah so childish? “Look! No hands! Hurray!”
What
about abu Ali, the baklava maker? Isn’t he one of the people whose
dignity the resistance protects? Other people buy Baklava too; the
tourists now leaving in scores could have contributed handsomely to
Ali’s education. Besides, when the raging Israeli bull bombs abu Ali’s
neighborhood, people will push baklava way down their purchasing lists.Hezbollah
is trying to fool us. It wants us to believe that it’s offering Israel
a fair deal. We are being bluffed to relax, to conclude that Israel
will eventually do “the right thing”; because -and here goes the bluff
aimed at Israel- we have “Surprises” hidden up our sleeves.I for one am not fooled. I will not heed Nassrallah’s call. It is time the last militia in Lebanon be solved.
And Letters apart has written, well, a letter to Nasrallah:
Hassan, I wanted you to prove me wrong. I wanted you to take the
right - the right, and not just the wise - decision. It has been clear
for some time now that you will incite the Israeli Army into attacking
Lebanon once again, but I wanted to be wrong. You have failed. You have
failed 3.5 million people. You have failed yourself. You have failed
your son.The truth is that you have always been responsible.
You share in the responsibility for Qana. You share in the
responsibility for the Israeli attacks on the power station near my
house 6 years ago, which set the country back decades. The blood of
innocents has tainted your hands, regardless of what you say. "Will all
great Neptune's ocean wash this blood clear from" your hand? No. You
will "rather the multitudinous seas incarnadine, making the green one
red."Hassan, do you not question yourself? Do you never doubt
your actions? Do you not wonder how many people you have robbed of old
age?Death is not yours to hand to others.
You have
killed, maimed, and destroyed lives. Yet you continue in your
self-declared righteous path. People have been killed because of you.
People have killed because of you. You offer no solution but death, and
the option you bring to the table is the most outdated and cliched one.
There is no honor in murder, no dignity in crime, yet you insist on
slicing through our lives.
True!
All the while, my favorite 2 lebanese bloggers, RAJA and Doha, are keeping us updated with what's going on inside of Lebanon. It's not pretty:
Update 6 - 8:56 AM: The Israeli raid on
Beirut's airport was conducted at 6:00 AM. Israeli Army radio declared
that Israel is implementing an "air blockade" on Lebanon as a means of
punishing the Lebanese government for not disarming Hizballah. The
airport was hit with six rockets.Update 7 - 9:05 AM: All exams for current and prospective students at the Lebanese University have been postponed indefinitely.
Update 8 -
9:14 AM: The main artery that connects Beirut to the South is a highway
that pass underneath the airport runways that were just destroyed. Some
of the Israeli missiles hit the runways at precisely the point where
the tunnels pass. The tunnels are no longer usable.[...]
Update 14 - 10:23 AM: The Israeli Navy has just initiated a maritime blockade on Lebanon to complement the aerial blockade.
Lebanon's
tourist industry employs around 500,000 individuals in a country with a
population of 3.5 million. It is the country's largest employer.
Projections for 2006 were that Lebanon would gain $4.5 billion from
tourists. Poof!Update 15 - 11:02
AM: The North-South Highway between Beirut and Saida was cleared of
rubble about an hour ago by the Lebanese Army's Core of Engineers. It
is now clear for those daring or desperate enough to pass through.Update 16 - 11:10 AM: Israeli Defense Minister: We will not allow Hizballah to return to its positions on the Lebanese-Israeli Border.
Update 17 -
11:17 AM: Lebanon's Minister of Transportation, Mohammad Safadi:
Segment of runway can be fixed within 48 hours, but allowing planes to
land and take off will need a political decision…. An MEA plane
landed and taxied away from the runway seconds before the Israeli
strike.Update 18 - 11:30 AM: Lebanese who can are beginning to seek refuge in Syria, of all places!
Sigh…
And here I was planning a trip to Lebanon in a month. Fuckin Hell.
Update: Fares from Free Syria had some strong words to Nasrallah as well:
Are you happy to be without an airport and with all the innocent
children dead? listening to your speech on the radio made me think what
an idiot and you were joking on top of that…You are responsbile for all the Lebanese deaths and damages…Syria
will get its fair chair as well pretty soon because of your idiocy and
the idiocies of your masters!!! Najad and Assad, I tried to say on
Arabya in january looking at their picture together, pair of
Fuckers…but it did not get posted. I was so right, history will judge
them very badly.In fact you might just have digged your and your party of terrorists your own grave.
Arabs wake up and denounce the traitors who willingly burned a
peaceful country trying to survive 30 years of war. Israel is not the
main enemy, lunatics are: Najjad, Bashar, Nasrallah and Mishaal. They
are imitating Saddam’s stupid move when he invaded Kuwait and ended up
destroying Iraq.
Fares, honestly, do you think they are listening?
Update: Some Israeli bloggers, in the spirit of the One blogging World, are dismayed by what's going on and trying to reach out to their arab counterpart. She, from something something, had the following to say:
I think of the bloggers across the Arab blogosphere who have afforded
me the privilege of making their acquaintance, exchanging comments and
emails as we work together to break down barriers, barriers put in
place by those whose greatest fear is the discovery that we are all
merely people and not the monsters they make us out to be. We may not
always agree, but there is both a mutual respect and curiosity that we
have chosen to embrace. Despite the actions of governments and
organizations in our countries, we are trying hard to make our
neighborhood a better place. Now, as I sit here on this train heading
south, I can’t help but wonder, is it all for naught? It is so easy to
forget the big picture as we focus on the relationships, the bridges
being built. We share the same interests, the same tastes in food (who
would have thought that sushi is so popular throughout the Middle
East?), similar musical tastes. Thanks to these bloggers, I have
learned about life in Jordan, in Lebanon, in Egypt, and so on. Never
before have I been in a position to see a trip to Damascus as something
normal, or to discover the excitement and beauty of Beirut.[...]
It’s almost like a drug, and it’s so easy to become addicted, as we get
sucked into a virtual world where disagreements still exist, yet
borders are there to be traversed and not fortified. Then suddenly,
reality comes crashing down as those with the real power make their
presence felt through violence and destruction, and you wonder if your
dreams of normalcy are only childish visions that will never come to
pass. Are we being foolish? Is our bridge-building mere folly, a way to
pass the time while allowing ourselves to think that we can somehow
make a difference? I have no doubt that for the most part, we are all
quite sincere in our quest, but while the perfect sunny skies of summer
in the Middle East are tainted with falling rockets and fresh graves
are dug in the cracked, brown earth, I cannot help but feel that we are
all very small and insignificant as the Nasrallahs of the world show us
who is really controlling the game of life.
Ami, another Israeli blogger, had an open letter to Raja posted on her blog.
And Lisa is wondering when "the folly will end":
If there is one thing we can always count on in the Middle East, it
is this: Just when there are signs of positive developments toward
peace, just when we start to hear the voices of sanity, the extremists
- the madmen with the crazed eyes who are convinced they have a direct
phone line to God (and that God likes to see people kill each other) -
spring into action and take us backward. That is what has been
happening over the last two weeks, starting with the Hamas incursion
from Gaza into Kerem Shalom and culminating yesterday morning with a
Hezbollah "operation" inside Israel's northern border.[...]
I've spent most of the last 24 hours glued to the internet, telephone
and television. My head hurts, my thoughts are in a whirl and I really
don't feel able to write anything cogent or insightful at this point.
All I can think is, "the extremists have won again."Just over
two weeks ago, Abu Mazen and Ehud Olmert met at a breakfast hosted by
King Abdullah in Jordan. They hugged each other and spoke in front of
the cameras about imminent negotiations. A moment of hope. And then the
incident at Kerem Shalom,
followed by the IDF incursion into Gaza. And now Lebanon. Once again, I
wonder how much blood must be spilt before we end this ridiculous,
tragic conflict. And when we will stop warming our hands in front of
the tribal bonfires instead of stepping back and seeing this conflict
for what it is - a game of power played by politicians who really do
not care all that much about the wellbeing of the people whose
interests they claim to protect.
Me and you Lisa. Me and you!
Update: Mustapha has changed his position from "Hezbollah I hate you" to "Hezbollah, I hate you, but I will stand behind you until this is over, and by then I will make you pay". Just don't ask him how he will make them pay. No one in Lebanon knows. Whatever.
I do however agree with him that putting a blockade on Lebanon maritime borders to "stop the inflow of weapons" is stupid . Hello, weapons are coming in from the syrian borders Morons.
Raja and his family are looking for a safe place to hide.
Update: The IDF has a new message to Hezbollah: "If Hedra is hit, we will destroy Beirut Buildings".
"Even if they have thousands, we have at
least 10 times more," the officer clarified. "If they attack Haifa and
Hadera, it will constitute a reason to severely damage Lebanese
infrastructures, including Hizbullah's 20-story buildings inside
Beirut."
However…
According to Eshel, the battle will not end
in "one swoop," but will last for a while. He noted that the Air Force
was aware of the ability and willingness of terror organizations to hit
warplanes, and has prepared accordingly.
Hmmm…
Another Israeli columnist is stating that Israel has no choice but to fight and to win this war, otherwise it will be "the end of Israel."
This is no competition of false machismo.
This is a fateful decision: Even if these two radical Islamic movements
gain symbolic propaganda victories – it could free other enemies around
the Middle East. The need to win this war is absolute. There can be no
debate about it.Hamas and Hizbullah have a lot in common. Neither recognizes
Israel, both organizations are well entrenched in areas Israel
evacuated unilaterally, both are led by charismatic leaders with the
ability to stir up a crowd, and both heap scorn openly on both Israel's
military prowess and Israelis ability to stand up under pressure. And
both have kidnapped soldiers from sovereign Israeli territory and are
holding them in territory they control.If these leaders come out of this war with the upper hand, if
they can rightly wave the flag of victory, Israel will be finished.
Ok, now you are just going to encourage the attackers dude.
In other news, the Beirut airport will be closed for the next 48 houres.
Lebanon said Thursday Beirut airport will
remain shut for at least 48 hours after it was bombarded in Israeli air
strikes in retaliation for the killing and capture of Israeli soldiers
by Hizbullah.
"The airport will be partly operational
within 48 hours, but reopening the airport is a political decision that
will be decided by the cabinet," Transport Minister Mohammad Safadi
told reporters."The runways have all been hit, although some less than others," he said.
[...]
"The closure of the airport has inflicted
losses of five million dollars only for today. This does not include
damages, which will be determined later," an airport official said.
Israel. Stop attacking Lebanon. Leave their buildings alone. It's Syria that you want! Bomb Syria!
Update: Neverminding mr. Drama Queen over here, it seems that there is an overabdunendnce in Bravado emerging from the Israeli side (and we are not even going to mention the field day Netenyaho is having with this). Check this guy's letter to Shailat's father out, where he informs him that his son's life is not worth the releasing of Killers:
Indeed, according to Zev Dasberg, an
attorney by profession and the head of the Israel Institute for the
Research on Terror Victims, more than fifty people have been murdered
in cold blood by killers who were freed by Israel in previous
"gestures" when convicted killers were freed over the past five years.I also write as a father who currently has a son serving in an IDF
army combat unit not far from Gaza. My son, Elchanon, made just one
request before he was drafted: Please do not trade any murderers in
exchange for me, in case I am captured. As much as it would pain me to
do so, I would honor my son's request.
Hmmm. Fantastic Mr. Bedein. Your have a bigger Penis than Shilat's father. Good for you! Now fuck off!
Update: World leaders' reactions are always interesting. Don't you think? Well, I think so. Here is a round-up:
Bush on Hezbollah:
"My attitude is this: there are a group of terrorists who want to stop
the advance of peace," he said. "Those of us who are peace living must
work together to help the agents of peace."
I agree with Dubya. Is that bad?
France position is, well, what you expect it to be:
France criticized Israel's campaign in Lebanon, including
the attack on the airport, as "a disproportionate act of war."
Guess that was a fluke.
Iran urges restraint. Ha! Gotcha! Just kidding:
The comment came after Iran's top national security official, Ali
Larijani, had met Palestinian groups to voice the Islamic republic's
"decisive support" for their battle against Israel. "The Zionists and their protectors are the most detested people in all
of humanity, and the hatred is increasing every day," the president was
quoted as saying by Iranian state television."The worse their crimes, the quicker they will fall," added
Ahmadinejad, who has already called for the Jewish state to be "wiped
off the map" and relocated as far away as Alaska.
Elequont as always A.J.!
July 13th, 2006 at 9:19 am
of course the Lebanese bloggers want Israel to attack Syria (who wants their own country to be bombed? their people dying?) and at the same time talking about Israel with no respect (as if Israel have been behaving as an aggressor by pulling out of South Lebanon and Gaza)…. But what were they doing voting hezbolah into government coalition? What were the people of Gaza and the West Bank doing voting Hamas into power? Yes, they were expressing their preferences…
July 13th, 2006 at 9:34 am
They should reoccupy southern Lebanon just like before. One difference: they should occupy the entire southern half of Lebanon and start building settlements - maybe even invite the Lebanese Druze to form a microstate of their own in formerly Shia territory. They should permanently annex 50% of Lebanon. We will see how pretty Hezbollah is sitting after their entire base of support is living in squalid Café Annan-administered refugee camps in what is left of independent northern Lebanon.
And if the chinless optometrist from Damascus wants to still his goofy fuckin’ face into this conflict: nuke ‘em.
More reporting links:
Palestinians grow up:
http://www.theaugeanstables.com/2006/07/11/arabs-to-palestinians-grow-up/
The Palestinians are arguably the most foolish people in the world when it comes to making decisions that are beneficial to their own welfare, so I don’t expect them to heed this man’s advice.
Counterterrorism blog sees our old friend (at least to those who follow these sort of things) Imad Mugniyeh behind the abduction. This is the shithead originally responsible for CIA station chief William Buckley’s torture and murder in Lebanon during the 1980s. This clown needs to be the target of some serious intelligence work by Israel and the United States - preferably ending with a fatal car bombing (or worse) somewhere in Iran - actually I would prefer that he was the victim of a CIA “rendition” preferably with him winding up in some third party Arab country where he can be effectively “questioned” about Iranian and Hezbollah activities:
http://counterterrorismblog.org/2006/07/imad_mugniyah_likely_behind_th.php
July 13th, 2006 at 9:35 am
Your disregard of life shocks me “it just doesn’t look good in the international community’s eyes” is this only reason to refrain from carpet bombing civilians !!!!!!!!!!
However, I agree with you that if some place is to be bombed it is where basher and his gang are. Unlawful leaders must be held accountable for their actions not children.
July 13th, 2006 at 9:39 am
War takes organization and preparation, therefore it amazes me how so many people judge Israel’s reaction by the first twenty four hours of a crisis. I think that Israel’s only choice is to erase hezbollah from southern Lebanon and let the Lebanonese army finally take control of that area; and to attack and destroy the Assad regime. The puppetmaster, Iran, will lose its two puppets and will look ridiculous to the rest of the Muslim world when they have no power to respond to Israel. Any move by the Iranian armed forces will force the US Navy to protect the movement of oil by destroying anything Iranian above or below the Gulf; and any Iranian military installation within a certain distance of the Gulf.
The world will embargo Iranian oil and bring Iran to its financial knees very quickly. It was the Iranian move on the chess board to prolong and extend the Gaza crisis when Muburak had an agreement in hand…it will turn out to be a bad move.
July 13th, 2006 at 9:41 am
Hizbollah and the Gaza debacles have now demonstrated to Israelis that if they pull out of territory, rockets will be fired from there and Israeli soldiers will be kidnapped. South lebanon and Gaza make this two for two.
Thing is, this is exactly what all the Islamists want. They want the Israelis to stop with concilliatory gestures that might tempt Palestinians away from maximaliist objectives. The timing of the Lebanese front kidnappings bears this out: it is beyond solidarity with captured prisoners or Gazans. It is a practical response to the maximalist call to create conditions that make compromise impossible.
July 13th, 2006 at 10:18 am
People speaking up on Elaph
July 13th, 2006 at 10:53 am
My opinion as to the best scenario here? For all involved? The Lebanese military should finally step in, and attack Hezbollah until all that’s left of it is a wet stain in South Lebanon. Heck, these guys got Lebanon into a war, a war Lebanon does *not* want.
And why does it look to me like Hezbollah, once the Israeli offensive gets a bit too hot for them, will call in Syria to “help out their neighbor against the Zionist agressors”. In fact, why does it look to me like Hezbollah will sell Lebanon to Assad if they only get the chance?
July 13th, 2006 at 11:05 am
rock on hizballah!
July 13th, 2006 at 11:20 am
Israel will destroy hezbollah. The rockets are a concern but they cannot be permanently there. We saw already the damage they cause. They will be destroyed.
This is one of the most intelligent things anyone has said here:
“of course the Lebanese bloggers want Israel to attack Syria (who wants their own country to be bombed? their people dying?) and at the same time talking about Israel with no respect (as if Israel have been behaving as an aggressor by pulling out of South Lebanon and Gaza)…. ” [hettie]
Yes, Lebanese people stop behaving like you want your slave Israel to solve the problem for you and then accuse it of “Zionist criminals”.
If we bomb hezbollah it will be for us, not for you. The Lebanese Army should help Israel, not accuse it. If they decide to watch this from afar, they will lose their country.
July 13th, 2006 at 12:01 pm
Thats the stupidest response I’ve heard today. Hezbollah attacks us, so Lebanon will lose their country. People seem to think that the Lebanese army is capable of stopping this from escalating; the reason Hezbollah feels free to do whatever they want is because nobody in Lebanon can stop them. Either way, Israel doesn’t seem to have any intention of protecting itself from further attacks or getting rid of terrorism. It doesnt take a genius to know that if you kill a few Arabs, they’re going to continue to attack you, whether or not it does any significant harm to Israel, the attacks will continue. I’m so happy I’ll be out of the Middle East in a week, Israeli or Arab, they have the same levels of ignorance with unequal levels of power.
July 13th, 2006 at 12:49 pm
This whole thing is sick. What teh fuck is going on? who’s on who’s side? Forgive my lack of any eloquence here but ‘fuckin sick’ is really the only appropriate term I can come up with here.
I dislike and distrust Olmert and Peretz and have little faith in their knowing what to do or how to do it. Aside for the fact that Olmert is a dirty little career politician he’s also hampered by the fact that he sees the events of the past three weeks as matters to be viewed independantly of all else in the history of Israel, the Middle East, Jewish history andworld history in general. He’s a career politician and he’s an idiot.
Again - I don’t have the least bit of sympathy for some apologist for Hizballah/Hamas getting blown to bits and I think the world would be a whole lot better for it - but what exactly is going on? How exactly are we going to get our captured children back through bombing Beirut?
Forgive my ranting. My solutrion to the matter doesn’t relate to “current events” or the latest happenings but to a more gestalt look at matters pertaining to peace, democracy and the right of the Jewish people to be left the fuck alone. My solutions aren’t the kind of thing that would solve this current Hiz/Ham so that we can all get back to some mythical “peace process”.
There’s a waste of life taking place and I can’t for the life of me see how any of this is in the best interest of the Jewish people.
It appears to me that the only two possible solutions to Israel’s problem with the Arabs are the extreme left and the extreme right. The Extreme left involves capitulation and apologies and the eventual destruction of the Jews’ only refuge with the surviving Jews packing out and preparing themselves for the gas chambers (and trust me, my friend, they won’t be long in coming). We’ve been on this path, more or less, since 1993. And indeed, it will eventually solve Israel’s problems with the Arabs. This being the case though, Israel’s aggression and “fighting back” is a stupid hindrance to the plan that’s already in motion - and I, for one, prefer a quick death.
The extreme right involves knowing that you’re right. You’re morally right. You know your history. You know the enemy’s death-cult disease. You are Gaon V’nadiv V’Achzar and - with wisdom and lovingkindness toward all - you declare that you won’t take any more shit. and then you Don’t take that shit.
You don’t “give back” parts of your homeland that were used as bases to attack you without provocation. You don’t repeatedly apologise for the “transfer” of a native fifth-column that was brought about by a war of aggressiona against you and that was just one of a dozen transfers of population that took place that decade. And you don’t allow “people” like Ahmedinijad to prance around Nazilike and threaten you with extermination. What other people allow such things against them?
You take a fuckin stand.
BUT WHAT THE FUCK IS THE PURPOSE OF DESTROYING LEBANON? Do we need more enemies and more wars? If you’re going to fuckin “end it” once and for all, then do so. But what - oh Olmert, what the fuck is your plan? I’M ALL FOR KILLING. But kill the goddamned right people you pussy!
p.s. If I’m wrong and the Lebanese government has the ability to reign in Hizballah but just chooses not to do so then I retract this post and entirely support their destruction.
July 13th, 2006 at 12:59 pm
SAM, don’t think at all that Hezbollah is very powerful when it comes to rockets. Hezbollah have two kind of rockets: some are small and easy to smuggle and to fire, but these are relatively innefective. The bigger, long range rockets are relatively easier to detect and their launching take more time which is why Hezbollah has to hide them. The Israeli have spy planes and satellites over all Lebanon and their high-tech communication system means that their air force is very reactive meaning that they only need a few minutes between acquiring a target and firing at them. I read that their target acquisition system is the most advanced in the world after the US.
This is why this monkey Nasrallah is keeping his big rockets hidden, and this is why the Israelis always violate the Lebanese Air space, so that they can monitor the military activity in our country in real time.
July 13th, 2006 at 1:17 pm
Hey all. While I totally agree with bombing the shit out of Hezbollah, I feel that the way Israel is handling it’s business is to heavy handed on civilians. They lost my support when they went after civil infrastructure, instead of just targeting the Hezbollah leadership. It is clear that Lebanon and most of its population are unable to do anything about Hezbollah and it’s masters Syria and Iran from screwing them over. Last year we saw that most of the Lebanese people want peace, stability and to be left alone from foreign meddling. So instead of bombing the shit out of Lebanon’s newly build infrastructure, Israel should really target Hezbollah at there address in Syria. Hey IDF if you need directions to Damascus, give me a call……..
July 13th, 2006 at 1:17 pm
Vox P is 100% right here. Katyushas might wound and kill people, but it takes a truly huge number of them to actually do so. Plus, this range is crap. The larger long-range missiles Hezbolla has, like any other long-range missile, require a bit more effort put into getting them on their way, so to speak. Put enough fighter jets at ready, and Hezbolla’s shiny toys will be toast the moment they try to use them. Heck, I’m guessing we know where most of them are as it is by now, so an operation to clear them out will be mounted once we’re ready to do so.
July 13th, 2006 at 1:22 pm
Correction: should be ‘their range’, not ‘this range’.
July 13th, 2006 at 1:29 pm
Even if the Lebanese army doesn’t have the necessary strength to rid itself of Hizbollah, acting in concert with Israeli forces could solve the problem.
I have a question for Egyptians and Jordanians, did you like when your country and citizens were the victims of terrorists? Did you call for your country to do something?
Why should it be any different for Israel? Hizbollah provoked those attacks. And while it may seem that the Israelis are randomly targeting infrastructure in Lebanon, the targets do have stratigic value. By bombing bridges, it keeps the kidnapped soldiers from being taken into deeper territory. By bombing electrical utilities, it interrupts enemy communications.
The Lebanese people acted in concert last year to get Syrian forces to leave. Much the same could be done with Hizbollah. Wouldn’t it be interesting for the Lebanese Army to fight with the Israelis to get the cancer of Hizbollah out of Lebanon?
July 13th, 2006 at 1:32 pm
The war mongering of Israelis have started. The aggression, oppression, killings of civilians is nothing new to the Israeli politicians
“BUT WHAT THE FUCK IS THE PURPOSE OF DESTROYING LEBANON? Do we need more enemies and more wars? If you’re going to fuckin “end it” once and for all, then do so. But what - oh Olmert, what the fuck is your plan? I’M ALL FOR KILLING. But kill the goddamned right people you pussy!”
DITTO!!!!!!!!!
July 13th, 2006 at 1:39 pm
What strategic value does bombing the airport in Beirut have, seawitch? Just as you said, the Lebanese people do not feel they should be punished for this, and they feel theyre being terrorrised by the Israeli’s. How would you feel if a European nation decided to take out a major airport in Israel? Obviously, both sides could claim they’ve been attacked and demand revenge, but why start a viscious cycle like that? Who’s interest is that in?
July 13th, 2006 at 1:43 pm
I assumed that you are Israeli, and I realize I may be wrong, but I think my point still stands, suicide bombings and kidnappings are not the only form of terrorism, and Lebanon is not an enemy of Israel, Hezbollah is, however that could easily change over the next few days. The Lebanese people worked in concert to rid themselves of the Syrians, true, but Hezbollah acted alone in provoking Israel, and the Lebanese people should not have to be punished for that.
July 13th, 2006 at 2:02 pm
35 civilians killed so far.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/5175418.stm
July 13th, 2006 at 2:08 pm
Just closed the tag I accidently left open.
July 13th, 2006 at 2:11 pm
It is interesting how Lebanese sympathizers want to tell the world that they are not responsible for a militant group attacking another country FROM THEIR SOVERIGN COUNTRY. When, exactly, did Lebanon call on the free world to rid their territory of such a cancer? THEY DID NOT! On the contrary, they allowed this group to become a part of their government.
While I have great affection for the Lebanese people and their efforts to rid themselves of Syrian influence, it seems to me that they were O.K. with letting a rabid dog live in the southern portion of their country funded by outside sources.
Where was the outrage before this latest act of agression? Did Lebanon go to the U.N. and ask for relief from the Hezbollah menace, no… Now, however, they question the retaliation of their neighbor country. Why disable the airport? So supplies can not come into the country to fuel Hezbollah and, yes, to make the point clear to the Lebanese that they must deal with the cancer in their midst if they want to live in peace (and have all those happy tourists visit their shores).
While I agree that Syria holds the keys to this situation, I also think that Lebanon has disregarded the Hezbollah. This was never in their best interest.
I would be willing to change my mind if the Lebanese peole demand their gov’t do something about Hizbollah, even if the gov’t is not strong enough to rid the country of their influence. At the very least, they could cooperate with Israel to rid the region of this menace. Gasp! Cooperate with Israel?
July 13th, 2006 at 2:21 pm
I second what Babs said. Like it or not, Lebanon is responsible for Hezbollah, not only because they are operating from Lebanese soil, but moreso because they are part of the Lebanese goverment.
Pardon me, but that’s not exactly normal. You don’t let a bloodthirsty pack of marauders operate from within your country, let them join your goverment, and then wash your hands of them. Yes, Hezbollah are powerful. Yes, Lebanon is unable to get rid of Hezbollah on its own, but frankly…
Frankly, it doesn’t look to me like Lebanese were even considering asking anyone else for help. Maybe it’s being occupied by various countries that got that mentality in. Better our bastards than someone else’s, and so on. That doesn’t make Lebanon any less responsible, though, and if the Lebanese goverment is not mature enough to finally disown this bastard child and throw him out of the house, then the Lebanese people will end up paying the price. You did elect them, be it Hezbollah or just those who agreed to put up with it.
July 13th, 2006 at 2:30 pm
Lebanon is tolerating Hezbollah’s presence. Why shouldnt they hit Lebanon? True, Syria is the true source.. but the source of the rockets attacking their civilians IS Lebanon.
July 13th, 2006 at 2:33 pm
Twosret, you may agree with me on the matter of two sentences taken out of context (and I’m honored to be so agreeable) but I think it’s rather clear that you and I DO NOT agree at all on the major issues.
Nonetheless, I’ll be happy to agree to disagree - can we shake on that?
mnuez
p.s. If you consider the matter objectively (though I distinctly doubt you will) I think you would have no choice but to agree that Israel is the most moral country in the world when it comes to dealing with those who seek the destruction of her citizens. In fact, I dare you to show me any other country, anyplace, that has responded with more measured force to the type of terror against civilians that Israel has faced since its birth.
I think on this matter (as an example) we would have to agree to disagree (though I do wish you would mentally step back from your prejudices and honestly reconsider).
July 13th, 2006 at 2:45 pm
Visit my blog for articles on the current events.
http://egyptianobserver.blogspot.com
July 13th, 2006 at 2:47 pm
So bombing the airport stops supplies from reaching Hezbollah? I’m not sure what supplies are being transported to Hezbollah through the airport in Beirut, I’d imagine that any supplies which the Israeli’s would want to keep from Hezbollah would be trafficked across the borders, probably from Syria. Regardless, I don’t think theres a justification for bombing the airport, unless people can identify what it is that is being blocked from reaching Hezbollah.
On the issue of responsibility, its true, they are part of the Lebanese government. Not sure how many members are in parliament but I understand that even if there was just one it would still involve the Lebanese government in this conflict. The problem is, however, that Hezbollah is strong, strong enough to demand a place in the government, simply because, who is going to kick them out? The Lebanese army? The international community? I’m not necessarily a sympathiser with the Lebanese, and I would feel no anger should the leaders of Hezbollah be killed within the next few weeks, along with anyone who choses to support them or played a part in starting this series’ of conflicts. I do believe that the Israeli response has not been proportionate, but I understand that this is the nature of international politics today. My problem is that Israel really aren’t doing themselves any favors. So they destroy Lebanon, then what? Will the problem be gone? Will Hezbollah give up the solidiers? Will Israel be terrorist free, and will the order in the region be restored, as the Israeli’s have said is their intention? Will Israel never have to face Lebanese aggression again, whether in the form of Hezbollah “resistance movements” or through a new movement sparked by these events? I honestly don’t believe one can answer yes to these questions, and I believe in order for Israeli actions to be justified, they need to be able to answer yes to these questions, otherwise, what are their ultimate goals? While I wouldnt expect a nation to show any compation in a situation like this, if this is the state of the world today, where violence is met with greater violence, how will we ever be able to live in peace? A few weeks from now, there will still be Arabs, and there will still be Israeli’s, and there will still be strong feelings of hostility on each side, so what happens then, Israel destroys another nation? Hezbollah kidnaps more terrorists? If I believed that the people executing these actions on both sides were able to justify to themselves that they were acting in the best interest of their nations, I would not speak, simply because you must expect each nation to look after its own interests. But this is not in Israel’s interest, and that is why I dont understand their actions.
July 13th, 2006 at 3:01 pm
“so what happens then, Israel destroys another nation? ”
Which “nation” has Israel destroyed so far???
I swear to God, the Palestinians are the most suicidal culture I have ever investigated. It should be so clear to everyone by now that while Israel has built a vibrant culture (more patents per capita than any other nation on earth) the Palestinians continue to live on hand outs in a sh*t hole… Check out the filth in the streets. This is a real sign of the state of a society. Hell, when I find trash outside my home I pick it up! Even when I lived in a flat I picked trash up outside my building.
Breaking, Hezbollah just shelled a northern Israeli city, killing a few and wounding many. This is why? Because Israel wants its kidnapped soldier/citizens returned?
Israel is now employing the same strategy in the north that they have been employing in Gaza; that is to cut off resources to southern Lebanon (as they have in northern Gaza) and clear a buffer zone so their SOVERIGN TERRITORY is not subject to missle attacks… Golan Heights anyone???
July 13th, 2006 at 3:10 pm
Well, Israel said they’d destroy Lebanon, there are quotes supporting this, just look on the major news websites. Also, I dont think I ever mentioned Palestine, which is weird becaue you did. I was refferring to Lebanon, and Hezbollah, since they are part of Lebanon.
I’m not sure if you feel I’m Palestinian, or if you just would like to insult them. Either way, “filth on the streets” is a great argument for Palestinians being suicidal. Not sure if anybody here has questioned whether or not Israel is vibrant, and it would be pretty hard to argue that Palestine is a better state (or a state at all) than Israel.
But it’s good that you pick up the trash outside your home, even when you lived in a flat and you picked it up outside of your building. Because we all know that that IS the “real sign of the state of a society.”
July 13th, 2006 at 3:23 pm
Excuse me, but some of you are talking like Hezbollah are people from another Country. Correct me if I am wrong, but are they not citizens of Lebanon….living in Lebanon….attacking Israel from Lebanon?! When the attacks start coming from Syrian soil, then Israel should deal with the Syrians (and yes…I know they are funding Hezbollah)
July 13th, 2006 at 3:42 pm
Hey Karim - Linky me the “quotes” where the Israel gov’t said they were going to “destroy” Lebanon…
Insult Palestinians??? Because they live in a squalor of their own filth??? They insult themselves.
And, I understand that you are being sarcastic to me when you challenge my theory that living in filth is a sign of the health of a society. I’m so sorry to tell you that it is true.
As to your nationality, I have no clue.
So, Karim, do you want to treat the argression on Israel’s southern and northern borders as isolated incidents? (Pay no attention to what is happening in the south/north, they have nothing to do with each other?)
July 13th, 2006 at 3:58 pm
As a U.S. R.O.T.C. cadet in 9/90, I was asked by the school paper about whether I feared going to war with Iraq, thoughts on a draft, etc. I still have the article somewhere, so I can back myself up, but I said: 1) no draft; and 2) it’ll be over pretty quick b/c Iraq really sucks. (Well, that’s the short version) This when everyone was predicting Ragnarok and Vietnam all over again. We bombed ‘em for a few weeks and had a 100 hour ground war. So I trust my instincts.
Israel is going to take this to Syria, directly. It has to make the strategic feint into Lebanon first. It has to make tactical attacks in Lebanon first. It also needs to shore up its contacts in Syria. In context, the Allies planned D-Day for a year and a half. Keep in mind that twice before (’67, ‘73), Israel could have rolled a few armored divisions right down the road to Damascus, but didn’t. As Israel sees it, it’s time for regime change and there’s only one way to do it - (you) Arabs seem to respect force, well, it’s coming. As SM mentioned, undoubtedly there are a lot of Syrians who are itching to get rid of the Allawites, who make up even less of the country than do the Sunnis in Iraq. Maybe a future-minded general will step up and seize power under the aegis that it’s time to spend Syria’s money on Syrians. Or maybe it will devolve into civil war; either outcome takes heat off Israel.
Iran won’t do shit. Iran does not have the capability to take offensive action against Israel other than asymmetrically, and if Israel’s forward air base is in Northern Syria, it doesn’t dare provoke it. Israel wouldn’t attempt any land action against Iran, but airstrikes? Iranian rules are also going to find it kind of tough to travel outside Iran by air. Iran won’t do shit because it does shit through others.
Just for thought, a destabilized Syria could lead to a broader Kurdistan though northern Syria, iraq, and western Iran. That’d give Turkey fits, but it might be possible for Turkey to buy out Kurdish rebellion in eastern Turkey by helping fund the nascent Kurdish state. That’s a bit far out to project, but with Syria out, Hez & Hamas have no regional sponsors so it becomes just a matter of time before they’re ground down.
Syria’s sidelining takes a lot of wind out of the terrorists in Iraq, allowing the U.S. to focus assets on the Iranian border (which also helps with the propaganda/G-2 situation). With Syria and Lebanon pulling ahead of Iraq in stabilizing peacefully, momentum swings to the government in Iraq. Then Abbas and his crew really become the odd man out in the ME and as a practical matter will be forced to make peace; if only because they have nothing left to fight with. As Lebanon, Syria, and Iraq rebuild countries where people actually can enjoy life, they’ll be turning their backs on people who could have had all that a decade ago but fucked it up. Ergo….
It’d be awfully ironic if a strong and assertive Israel led to peace and prosperity in the ME, and it all started because some pipsqueak decided to grab a soldier.
July 13th, 2006 at 4:03 pm
I think something is being overlooked here: Hizbollah does not exist outside of the civilian infrastructure of Lebanon. They don’t live in castles, grow their own food, weave their own clothes, print their own money etc. These activities take place within Lebanese society. Some people are not realizing that ’surgical’ military operations are not possible across a border — it’s one thing to try and kill Hamas assholes when there are soldiers and intelligence officers throughout the W Bank and Gaza and another thing to try and target well hidden, more experienced Hizbollah assholes across a border with far less resources available.
I know it sounds gruesome — and it is — but war is not just about the military: civilians are always involved. Lebanon did not oust Hizbollah: militarily, economically, or really in any other way and the civilian government of Lebanon bares part of the responsibility for Hizbollah’s actions. What do you expect Israel to do? Hizbollah is physically attacking from Lebanon, Israel can’t ignore that and just attack Syria. Actually, they should do both, attack the direct (Hizbollah) and indirect (Syria) sources. Unfortunately, attacking Hizbollah means harming Lebanon. Israel should be very careful not to go too far but they must respond in Lebanon. Just my two cents.
July 13th, 2006 at 4:16 pm
Well, I think they are isolated incidents, unless something shows up that proves me wrong. I assume your talking about the two incidents of kidnappings. It makes sense that Israel would want to get its soldier’s back, and would want to hold someone responsible for what has been going on. And if they can justify holding Lebanon responsible, which I guess they can since Hezbollah is part of the Lebanese government, then their actions towards teh government seem justified in this context. However, “turning the clock back 20 years in Lebanon”, just doesn’t seem appropriate to me, not because of the potential of mass casualties, not because its not “humane”, but because I just dont think that it serves the purpose of the Israeli’s. I would assume that they want to A) make sure they are not attacked again, specifically in this case on their borders, since this is where the incidents happened, and B) make sure that the people who acted against them realize that Israel won’t sit back and allow acts of aggression to be committed against them, at least this is the way I see it and I suppose I could be wrong, but I think those are two things they will want to accomplish. Going into Lebanon, bombing Beirut, and threatening to bomb suburbs and even enter Lebanon, in my opinion, will only create more hostility towards the state from Lebanese who were not responsible for the kidnappings but will feel responsible for defending their nation. Whether or not Lebanon has handled Hezbollah properly or not, Hezbollah are the ones who attacked Israel, and I think that it would be more effective for Israel to focus on attacking Hezbollah specifically. I don’t believe the Airport and several bridges are going to stop Hezbollah from continuinig to operate. I havent heard a convincing argument yet that would justify those attacks.
You may ask why should Israel be responsible for dealing with Hezbollah, and not the Lebanese, and I’d say that because of the fact that the Lebanese government WILL NOT do anything about Hezbollah, Israel needs to focus on them, for their own security. By bombing Beirut, they’ve effectively declared war against the entire country, but have not addressed the issue of Hezbollah head on, so my question is why would they risk creating more enemies than taking care of the ones who are directly responsible for the attacks, Hezbollah?
July 13th, 2006 at 4:29 pm
Amgad,
Your disregard of life shocks me “it just doesn’t look good in the international community’s eyes” is this only reason to refrain from carpet bombing civilians !!!!!!!!!!
If HAMAS or Hezbollah had a B-52 fleet and an enlsess supply of 200 pouund bombs, what woiuld they do with them?
Be honest.
July 13th, 2006 at 4:33 pm
Karim,
So bombing the airport stops supplies from reaching Hezbollah?
No. Israel first bombed bridges, Then they bombed the airport and blockaded the ports. Why? To keep Hezbollah from shipping the two captured Israeli soldiers to Iran, where they could be used for Propaganda purposes for years to come, without Israel being able to do anything about it. They want the situation resolved one way or another in Lebanon.
July 13th, 2006 at 4:45 pm
SM,
It is easy for you to go for the option of attacking Syria. Syria has chemical weapons and will not hesitate to use them.
There are no good options. What Israel is doing is the least worst option. Labanese Government should take responsibility and act against Hesbollah. That would stop Israel’s action.
Oh, wait, Lebanese Government includes Hesbollah…
This is just awful for Lebanon as well as Israel, but the Lebanese politicans have brought this onto themselves.
July 13th, 2006 at 4:57 pm
When Israel’s enemies don’t wear uniforms, send out retarded kids in suicide vests, and strap explosives on women, which they do, OF COURSE the Israelis are going to have to “kill civilians.”
But then, the definition of civilian has become meaningless.
July 13th, 2006 at 5:08 pm
Craig,
I honestly don’t believe that they would have shipped the soldiers to Iran. And even if this was their intention, the airport is still partially functional, so it would still be possible, but it won’t happen.
A more likely reason for the bombing of the airport would be because Lebanon loses around 5 million dollars every day that the airport does not function, read that in a BBC article that i’ll try to find now. The bridges I understand now, help isolate Hezbollah and keep them in Lebanon, so I was wrong about that. But I doubt they wouldve sent the soldiers to Iran, however if you have evidence suggesting otherwise I guess I’m wrong.
July 13th, 2006 at 5:09 pm
When you need him?!
July 13th, 2006 at 5:09 pm
Dear Babs,
Hello Princess
It seems to me you are American. How do I know? Well, you cross me as arrogant, selfish, and lazy..oh, and stupid. Your arguement about a country is not civilized because it has trash is ridiculous. If that is the case, then I believe the United States is the most uncivilized country in the world, at least until all of its White Trash citizens are taken out of it. Oh, and lets not forget the Spicks that people ridicule continuously, and the dirty n*ggers that terrorize the streets. Take them out, and we’ll have a perfectly functioning society.
Let me draw it out for you-
What your saying is:
Nation - trash = civilized
Nation = people
Trash is a byproduct of people (meaning no people, no trash, implying that people are trash)
So, if we remove people (White Trash, Spicks, N*ggers, etc) we will have no trash, giving us a civilized nation.
Here is the thing though, how in the fuck can you have a country, a nation of people when there is no one to populate it and call it their own?
July 13th, 2006 at 5:22 pm
What strategic value does bombing the airport in Beirut have, seawitch?
Allow me to interject. The airport is a major conduit for weapons, cash, and equipment going to Hezbollah.
If the Lebanese government doesn’t like getting its airport hit, it should have prevented Hezbollah’s use of it.
Another small step the dumbasses in Lebanon could have but failed to take against Hezbollah.
More articles:
Shame on Bush?
http://tammybruce.com/2006/07/world_leaders_urge.php
Has the war with Iran begun?
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/
July 13th, 2006 at 5:33 pm
hihihihi, come on eee !
July 13th, 2006 at 5:42 pm
No one’s gotten it up here yet, but one of your last updates has come true: Katyushas just hit Haifa.
July 13th, 2006 at 5:59 pm
Karim:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/738310.html
July 13th, 2006 at 6:00 pm
One of the 7 initial casulaties is a friend of my brother-in-law’s. I am up north now, listening to the booms.
The IDF did not react well in the first while. Now it’s time for massive airstrikes, for cluster shells and artillery barrages like it’s 1942.
And then it’s time for Syria to pay. And the Iran.
And if the Palestinians will be stupid enough to think it’s a good time to attack us with more strength… which they are… well, time for restraint is long past.
Glass time is coming, ladies and gents.
Happy Apocalypse.
July 13th, 2006 at 6:07 pm
Hey Bobber - You have my pity, you poor, angry man (boy). Nothing to say, and such a filthy way to say nothing.
July 13th, 2006 at 6:18 pm
Anon,
I still don’t think they would’ve taken the soldiers to Iran, however I guess I may be wrong, but it will take more than a comment by the Foreign Ministry in Israel to convince me.
Either way, things have definately taken a turn for the worse. Hopefully this will end soon, but I guess I wouldn’t be alone in saying that I highly doubt it.
July 13th, 2006 at 6:25 pm
Hey Raccoon Man,
Tell me, do you wake up in the morning and strategize on how your gonna go about being a douchebag? First of all, I personally don’t care about your brother in law’s friend, and to be frank, I don’t think a few others on this site care either. Save yourself the trouble, and suck it up. As far as Iran and Syria are concerned, Israel will not fuck with them. You see, there is a country in the far east, lets call it North Korea, they have nukes and are a threat to “world” but you don’t see the US attacking it mostly because you fuck with a country with nukes, you pretty much brought the world to an end. Allow me to paint the picture for you so that sad excuse of a mind you have can comprehend it: Iran has nukes, if Israel attacks it, it won’t only be your brother in law’s friend and the few others listed as casualties…
Oh and Babsy, it seems filthy is the word of the week.
July 13th, 2006 at 6:41 pm
I hope the IDF crushes the hell out of Hizb. I’m so sick of these Islamist groups.
And I hope to God that the good moderate Lebanese are spared.
Raccoon - Be safe man and take care. I just watched a rocket hit an appartment building on Fox News.
July 13th, 2006 at 6:46 pm
Bobber,
First of all, I personally don’t care about your brother in law’s friend, and to be frank, I don’t think a few others on this site care either.
I do.
As far as Iran and Syria are concerned, Israel will not fuck with them.
They should. If not Israel, the US will. I believe we are witnessing the demise of the IRI. Iran has been threatening to lash out at Israel through arab proxies for a year now, if they didn’t get their way on the buclear issue. They are now making good on the threat. All bets are off. The US stands with Israel, this time, and not just in spirit. Any escalation in this conflict will be disastrous, not just for Israel and Lebanon, but for the entire middle east.
The Israeli Ambassador to the United States has just announced that Israel is at war, a few minutes ago.
July 13th, 2006 at 7:01 pm
The buggers shelled Haifa. And the IDF, a paper tiger, is shrieking its rage. There’s nothing - no worthy target - they can hit.
Me, I support bombing Bashar. All his palaces. Then his army. Then just about everything else. I went into a rage myself, when I heard the IDF attacked Beirut. How is that going to help?
But, with over 90 rockets hitting the North, nobody pays any attention to words of calm and wisdom.
July 13th, 2006 at 7:21 pm
This sucks, serioulsy everyone wants to be a bull in a china shop. You can always leave it to everyone in the region to completely ignore the sensitivity of the times. I must admit however that Israel is more guilty of this than the other nations or even other terrorist groups. *Sigh* Even worse I have a Palestinian friend who went to Lebanon for the summer because Palestine was “too dangerous” poor guy.
July 13th, 2006 at 7:26 pm
Yossi, I agree with you… but I think Israel is in a delicate position, re: international reaction. Maybe they are waiting for Syria to launch an attack of some sort directly, before hitting back, Prxoy wars can be a bitch, when the provocateurs have plausible deniablity. And in the case of israel, the deniability of responsibilty doesn’t even have to be all that plausible.
I don’t even blame Assad for this, at least primarily. Syria is an Iranian puppet, and Lebanon is a puppet of a puppet state. Iran is the problem. Iran has *always* been the problem, when it comes to Hezbollah.
July 13th, 2006 at 7:27 pm
Hey Craigy Boy,
Were you born a dumbass or was it a gift of nature?
Notice I said “I don’t think a few others on this site care either.” You are not part of the few. Additionally, you claim, “Any escalation in this conflict will be disastrous, not just for Israel and Lebanon, but for the entire middle east.” Going into Iran would escalate the problem, just like i mentioned before. So thank you for supporting my claims. Have a nice day.
July 13th, 2006 at 7:34 pm
Bobber, are you really an abusive prick, or do you just paly one on blogs?
You’ve obviously got nothing to say… another guy I get to scroll past from now on.
July 13th, 2006 at 7:34 pm
NEW UPDATE
Haifa hit and Israel saying they fear the two kindnapped soldiers are being moved to Iran. How conveinient, yea?
July 13th, 2006 at 7:39 pm
Craigy Boy,
We are on the same page here, your saying fighting Iran will escalate things, and so do I. In reality I am a chilled out guy, but your mindless ramblings make you look so stupid, and it’s time someone called you on that. As for you not reading my postings, I honestly do not give a rat’s ass. Have a nice day.
July 13th, 2006 at 7:40 pm
Bobber, It would be my pleasure to run you into the ground, but I’ve got better things to do right now. I’ll be back to ream you a new one in a few hours!
Git him Craig and Raccoon!
July 13th, 2006 at 7:45 pm
Crazy Jackass,
May the Lord bless you with wealth and fortune, and soon after strike His mighty wrath on you in the form of a missile. Amen. Have a nice day.
July 13th, 2006 at 7:47 pm
You are so wrong, Bobber. Plenty of us here care and plenty of us KNOW that it is you who are stupid!
July 13th, 2006 at 7:49 pm
This situation is terrible and I hate the fact that violence is escalating. It infuriates me. It makes me want to attack. It makes me want to say,”bring it on.” Hezbollah has rockets. Israel has bombs. And perhaps the best, most organized milatry in the entire world.
If it’s continually provoked and provked, the situation is going to get worse and worse. And really, do the Arab nations really want to pick a fight with Israel?
I think they like the idea of talk, but would not appreciate the true consequences.
Remeber the six-day way?
Yeah.
July 13th, 2006 at 7:57 pm
K-Train,
You are just another number on the list of people who don’t like me on this site. It’s funny, I feel like I’m Israel and you all are the neighboring Arab nations that hate me. What’s more Ironic is ultimately, I will be victorious. Isn’t that what we all believe? Do you all honestly believe a bunch of pussy states can overcome a mighty empire so to say? I didn’t think so either. Have a nice day
P.S. Maybe the word train in the nickname I gave you resembles you more than you think, Karen. Just a hunch. No biggie.
July 13th, 2006 at 8:00 pm
Good one Bobbit (er, I mean Bobber).
July 13th, 2006 at 8:06 pm
K-Train,
Bobbit, Bobber, point is I bob. Cherries are my speciality. Say, you lose your cherry yet?
July 13th, 2006 at 8:14 pm
those arab terrorist, they don’t apperciate the israelis occupying them and they dare to resist, damn
July 13th, 2006 at 8:22 pm
Bitches and Bastards,
Drop what your doing, Ahmad has spoken. Yet, he still sounds like a dipshit. I wonder if he wouldn’t mind if someone raided his house and raped his mother and sisters.
July 13th, 2006 at 8:35 pm
To people in the middle east…
If you’re married, make love to your wife tonight. If you ain’t married but you gotta a gurlfriend then enjoy some hard core sex with her. If you don’t have a gurlfren/boyfren then jz go and masturbate. After that roll a big joint of weed laced with cocaine and smoke it up. Have a few shots of tequila and after that eat some Thai mushrooms. The region is about to be FUCKED!! Thank you Israel for keeping thousands of Palistinian women and chidlren in your jails. Thank you crazy Hamas and Hizbollah for your stupid actions. You guys are asking for a war and now you’re getting it. But wait this is only the beginning BiatCHES!!
July 13th, 2006 at 8:36 pm
Hey K-Train,
I guess Bobber has put you in your place. Good, I was starting to think I’d have to join in here and support his Israel to your Arabia. Ahmad, those arab terrorists aren’t being occupied, they’re worthless garbage who deserve to die, a lot like you.
July 13th, 2006 at 8:36 pm
I agree that it’s Syria that should be attacked, but Lebanon should have disarmed Hebzollah and Hebzollah’s attacks come from there.
Yes, it’s too bad that Israel is forced to attack the country that saw a beautiful Cedar Revolution. People there want peace and Israel knows this. But it’s the Hebzollah the enemy and Israel has no other choice than extermine the Hebzollah.
The Lebanese people will leave in peace without the Hezbollah. The only one to blame for Israel’s attack on Lebanon is the Lebanese gov’t (still a Syrian puppet) that should have destroyed the hezbollah itself.
July 13th, 2006 at 8:36 pm
I cannot help but be very suspicious of the timing.
Israel had pulled out of Gaza last year.
Hamas was pushed into acknowledging Israel, as well as make the trains run on time.
And then someone who does not even live in Palestine feels neglected, starts a tantrum and everyone, up to and including Olmert, rushes to oblige him.
I understand why Lebanon tolerates Hezbollah. If every dumbass can cause such a racket then why start a civil war? Again?
This whole issue is making me think fondly of the times my mum took away the Lucky Luke comic book me and my sister were fighting over and sent us both to our rooms. And even so, we weren’t raised believing that if we whine and throw enough tantrums we will get our way.
July 13th, 2006 at 8:40 pm
Correction:
But it’s the Hebzollah the enemy and Israel has no other choice but extermine the Hebzollah
and:
The Lebanese people will live in peace without the Hezbollah
July 13th, 2006 at 8:43 pm
Yea! finally someone who speaks my language, crack, weed, tequilla and shrooms! After that, we can sit and listen to the Sudanese thinker over here, nobody cares about you, and nobody thinks your cool for doing thai mushrooms, which btw are shit. And i guess you’ll be masturbating tonight then, fucking douche.
July 13th, 2006 at 8:46 pm
Hey Nose Picker,
I think your mom isn’t a very nice person. She’s not very motherly for taking away that comic book. I think that event in your life has traumatized you. Maybe you should get revenge. Have a nice day.
July 13th, 2006 at 8:54 pm
I did get my revenge. Started reading smut magazines instead. I wish you a pleasent day as well.
July 13th, 2006 at 9:03 pm
Can you guys just STFU with your personal attacks? Let’s start a pool on when Israel invades Syria.
July 13th, 2006 at 9:10 pm
Point taken. I bet two pounds of feta cheese that Israel attacks Syria before the months is out.
July 13th, 2006 at 9:28 pm
One thing I’ll say about English — it sure is great to swear in. :-> In what other language can you drop such an “F bomb”? LOL
July 13th, 2006 at 9:34 pm
Breaking - The missles that struck Haifa were Iranian and, Israel is now saying that they were probably fired by the Iranian National Guard working with Hizbollah.
July 13th, 2006 at 9:35 pm
#67 No, I just had to go out.
July 13th, 2006 at 10:12 pm
bomb Syria and you risk war with Iran who most probably already has nuclear weapons. Plus Syria has chemical weapons… If WMDs get released we are all screwed… It’s up to Israel if it wants to screw itself and the whole region along with it….
July 13th, 2006 at 10:21 pm
Hey Muslim brothers and sisters… we’ve done it again. Another fine mess. Why cant we just stop fucking up the world? If you find out let me know cause I gave up trying to figure it up. If it was up to me, I’d stuff an AK47 up Nasrallah back side and empty the magazine. I’m sure I’d go to heaven for that and get 60 virgins, or is it 70?
July 13th, 2006 at 10:32 pm
Everyone, we need to pool our money and buy bobber a blow up doll so he feels better! His Bobber is sinking!
July 13th, 2006 at 10:57 pm
> what should Israel do?
Easy. Stop begging, robbing and killing arab - especially pal.
- arabs.
But - that’s too much to be expected from gangsters and
their crowd - brought to you by the US and Britain.
July 13th, 2006 at 11:07 pm
[...] Rantings of a Sandmonkey: The responses of the people in Egypt are…interesting. My dad’s view is that comic sadness “Those poor lebanese. Every single time they rebuild Beirut, it gets destroyed, so they rebuild it again, and it gets destroyed again. It’s like a Seesaw!”, while my co-worker H. response is of “We should go to War, and attack Israel, if we have any sembelnce of diginity or self-respect. War War war, rah rah rah, blah blah blah”, all said while he lounges confortably in his leather chair.” [...]
July 13th, 2006 at 11:13 pm
My wager is a crisp US $5 that Syria wil be hit between July 18th and August 1st. (Hey, I’m a married man with kids, $5 is a lot!)
July 13th, 2006 at 11:52 pm
This site will have updates and interesting analysis:
http://www.mideastyouth.com
I think this is an irresponsible Israeli overreaction. Lebanon’s territory is being invaded, its biggest civilian airport bombed, its seaports blockaded, and its highways all bombed. They are trapping Lebanese in their country. How are innocent foreign tourists from neutral nations supposed to return home? What about those who were trying to go to Lebanon for holiday and now must change for them? Is this fair for them? What about the 60 dead Lebanese civilians who have lost their lives because of 2 captured soldiers? Soldiers make a choice to risk their lives, civilians make only one choice- to live.
furthermore, lebanon has no functioning military and can not capably handle either disarming Hezbollah or heading off the Israeli incursion. It will have to call on Syrian help. This will mean that Syria will once again return to Lebanon and dominate it and that Syrian forces will be directly involved with Israeli trooops, thus bringing the Middle East closer to a state of war.
JUSTICE IS PROPORTIONALITY
July 13th, 2006 at 11:53 pm
I was going to post my thoughts, but they pale next to the “Nice Jewish Boy” post. Congratulations to him!
July 14th, 2006 at 12:18 am
Just a question.. what would Iran do if Israel was lobbing low tech rockets into their cities DAILY??? like I said just a question.
July 14th, 2006 at 12:21 am
Lines from ‘Moderates’? -
“Israeli Cowards” “Bomb Syria or Tehran”
“Israel can’t do shit”
“Hezballah is showing their muscle”
Let alone the fact that every time Hezballah escalates Israel does something meaningless and ceases immediately at the request of the Lebanese Army?
The cowards line is particularly enjoyable considering no country is so surrounded by people who would either enjoy or not lose an ounce of sleep if they were blown off the map tomorrow. Oh and the fact they fought 3 major wars for their survivial in the last 60 years. Ho Hum…………
This is all BULLSHIT. Israel could take out Hezballah and get their leaders in 2 weeks tops.
The problem is not the might and tactical abilities of Israel it is that Hezballah wins if they win and wins if they lose.
It’s the old propoganda (Arab specialty) game -
provoke, provoke, provoke, attack, attack, attack and then fight but at the same time cry victim and get the UN to condemn Israel.
The “moderates” are yelling for Israel to bomb Syria and Tehran and call them cowards for not doing so….. and the next day would be rallying on the streets with pro Syria, Iranian and Hezbollah posters, and screaming Death to Israel and the Great Satan along with the Muslim Brotherhood.
BEFORE THERE IS WAR OR BEFORE THERE IS AN EARTHQUAKE THERE IS A LONG SIMMERING BUILDUP OF ENERGY……………….
Hezballah and Iran want a war.
Hamas wants a war.
Let’s see what everyone has to say when Israel gives them their war.
ALL THE HYPOCRISY AND SLANTED ANTI SEMITISM from the UN will come to the fore.
Hamas, Hezballah, Iran, Syria (UAE, Saudi Arabia) will once again prove that no matter what (so called Peace being “almost” there) the thing the Arab World does best (only?) is HATE ISRAEL. Dare any Arab including Sandman blast even sound remotely pro Israel after the War begins…. The secular moderates will be silenced again…. And who will be to blame? Israel?
And the victims once again? The Arab World of course.
So let’s get back to ignoring everything else and doing what we can do best - HATE THE GREAT SATAN….. (Allahu Akhbar!!)
Mike Nargizian
July 14th, 2006 at 12:24 am
As some one pointed out: it takes Israel about 72 hours to fully mobilize.
If Syria is the immediate target expect things to roll some time in the next five or six days.
At this point an attack on Syria seems inevitable. It would help the Israelis, the Lebanese, the Americans, the Iraqis. In a round about way it would help the Palestinians. They need to lose all hope of a victorious war.
July 14th, 2006 at 12:29 am
Iran actually has no nuke capabilities yet. It’s in the process of developing them. So let’s just say, the time is right for Israel to tale action. Iran would not be fighting its asymetric proxy war if it had the capability to go conventional. Remember that the US embargo on Iran means that even its civillian aircrafts fall out of the sky because they are so old and cannot get spare parts. But the rantings of Ahmadinejad over the year have indicated sufficient intent that pre-emption at the very least is justified on Israel’s part.
Also, I was pretty sickened by the attacks in Beirut until I read the very reasonable assertion that the entire country is being blockaded to prevent transferring the soldiers to Iran. That makes too much sense in the context of Israel’s identical initial behaviour after the Gaza kidnapping. Karim, there is precedent for such transfer.
For me, this is a horrible one:
As a liberal Middle Easterner, I would love to see Israel deal with Iran and Syria because they terrorise their own people as much as the region. On a personal level (i won’t go into details because I am a nervous Middle Easterner) the thought of anything happening to the people in Iran makes me sick. I am anti-religion, but believe in God, so at this point, I pray that in His infinite wisdom, He can see a way out of all this that we mere mortals haven’t. Insh’Allah…
You know, I don’t know Raccoon’s family friend, but his death is sad. He is human. I am very sad at the deaths of the Lebanese civillians. I know war charges the adrenalin, and I know that I state the obvious when I say that war is about humans inflicting damage on other humans… I just say that because tragedy is integral to his whole situation so jingoism and triumphalism are a bit off if we value human life at all.
This is not to say that I don’t relish the death of terrorists. I do. It’s just that there is no such thing as a nice war in which only the evil perish. Nor am I a pacifist. I believe that inaction in the face of evil is equivalent evil. I just ask all of us that may be excited at the moment to dial it back a bit with the rhetoric, remembering that Muslim, Christian, or Jewish, dead civillians, and particularly dead children, are never cause for celebration.
Raccoon, please God, you and your faily will be OK.
July 14th, 2006 at 12:38 am
Sandmonkey, you are wrong. Israel is not in a position where we “can’t do shit.” We don’t want to. Those 10,000 rockets are hidden in homes around southern Lebanon. That’s a lot of homes. We don’t want to destroy them all. So we’ll attack other targets first, starting by making it difficult to import any more of those rockets.
But our inhibition against engaging in massive homewrecking, well, it’s declining. Any house that contains a rocket is militarily fair game. ANy house reasonably suspected of it is also fair game. We have the right to f*ck up Lebanon royally.
We’d rather not. We’re Jews. We don’t like being destructive. But don’t think it a weakness.
July 14th, 2006 at 1:09 am
“JUSTICE IS PROPORTIONALITY”
The above statement really means “One soldier’s life is not really all that important to me, because I don’t care about him personally.” Apparently the Israelis have chosen to disagree. The Israelis know their opponents, and so they are making their point. “Every one of our soldiers is important. If you take even one of them, we will do to you what you wish you could do to us.”
There are those who have take the position that, if the US had done something similar in response to the Cole bombing, that Al Qaeda would not be so strong today. If one considers that one of those writers was Osama bin Laden, then maybe, just maybe, the Israelis have a point. This might be the right response.
Oh, but I could wish that there weren’t innocents in the way.
July 14th, 2006 at 1:15 am
I will echo those that think Israel should not be damaging infrastucture and should maybe bomb Assad, but as to striking back against Hezbollah and occuping the south I see no other alternative.
July 14th, 2006 at 1:42 am
Israeli forces are bombing touristic resorts, fuel reserves in Rafik El Hariri International Airport, and Power plant in Sida Lebanon.
Warmongers!
July 14th, 2006 at 2:04 am
Twosret:
“Israeli forces are bombing touristic resorts”. What is your source?
July 14th, 2006 at 2:12 am
Shlemazl the pictures are on T.V. go and watch
July 14th, 2006 at 2:27 am
It’s all the filthy Palestinians fault. Without them, the Mideast would be peaceful. They cause all the problems and then cry and beg. Palestinians are always trouble for the other Arabs.
July 14th, 2006 at 2:36 am
MEB,
JUSTICE IS PROPORTIONALITY
We aren’t talking about justice. We are talking about war. As with any other type of violent attack, the goal of the response is not to be “proportional” or fair, but to end the attack, by wahtever means necessary. And to attempt to ensure that the attack will never be repeated.
That’s been true for as long as humans have existed. It’s a universal truth on a personal level, too. The right of an individual to self-defense does not include a concept of “proportionality” - it only includes a concept of doing what a “reasonable person” could be expected to do to defend themselves from aggression. If somebody comes at me with a knife, I am not required to use a knife (or my bare hands) to defend myself. I am perfectly justified in pulling a gun and ending the attackers life.
The whole idea of “proportionality” in war is a straw man. A false argument. No such concept exists, no such concept is recognized under international law, and no such concept has ever been put in practice (nor will it ever be) because it’s counter to human survival instinct.
Lala, wonderful comment. Yours has been the best (in my opinion) in this whole thread.
July 14th, 2006 at 3:02 am
I agree with u guys Israel should bomb Syria, and Sri lanka, they make the worest tea ever, maybe Sweden too, I don’t like their accent
July 14th, 2006 at 3:07 am
This is the backdoor for attacking Syria and Iran. Don’t worry Ahmad.
July 14th, 2006 at 3:12 am
Your really think Israel is going to attack Syria and Iran? Do you think that they are super human? They have enought to deal with now.
July 14th, 2006 at 4:05 am
Israel will attack neither Syria nor Iran. It will keep pounding Lebanon.
July 14th, 2006 at 4:12 am
“Israel. Stop attacking Lebanon. Leave their buildings alone. It’s Syria that you want! Bomb Syria!”
How about “Israel, stop attacking Lebanon, leave the land you’re currently occupying, release the Palestinian, Lebanese, Syrian and Jordanian people you kidnapped and threw in jail for no good reason and let the Palestinians live in peace”.
Fuckin idiot!
July 14th, 2006 at 4:21 am
Fuckin idiot!,
How about “Israel, stop attacking Lebanon, leave the land you’re currently occupying, release the Palestinian, Lebanese, Syrian and Jordanian people you kidnapped and threw in jail for no good reason and let the Palestinians live in peace”.
Since that’s obviously not going to happen, I take it you are well satsified with the current state of affairs?
July 14th, 2006 at 4:26 am
we want peace
July 14th, 2006 at 4:46 am
“Since that’s obviously not going to happen, I take it you are well satsified with the current state of affairs?”
Obviously I’m not satisfied. Obviously the vast majority of not only Palestinians, but Arabs and Muslims all over the world are not satisfied.
That’s not going to happen? Then peace will never happen. And this is what I always say. Israel is a country that today doesn’t really need peace. What do they need peace for? Are they under occupation? No. Do their kids have to cross checkpoints on their way to school? No. Are they yet to have their own country? No, they already have it and it’s mighty fuckin good the way it is.
So why don’t everbody cut the bullshit, and admit the fact that Israel doesn’t really need “peace” and therefore isn’t willing to do anything towards achieving it? It’s not Hamas or Hizballah that started this? It’s Israel that did, and it started this decades ago when it occupied other people’s land and ethnically cleansed entire Palestinian villages.
Ironically enough, everybody today is forgetting that Beirut was the place where ALL Arab leaders met and, for the first time, they ALL agreed on a peace proposal that would fully recognize the state of Israel and guarantee it normalized relations with ALL Arab countries in return for what? In return for Israel giving the Palestinians what is rightfully theirs and has been stolen from them for decades; their land back.
You would like to have the world today believe that the lives of two or three Israeli soldiers are worth more than the lives of thousands of Palestinians killed throughout the years, and worth more than thousands of acres of occupied Palestinian lands, more worth than an entire nation’s existance and the right of people to return to their homes and villages from which they were driven out? You might think that way, but that would be because you’re living in denial. Some heads of state in the Arab world might, just might, think it’s a plausible argument at the moment, but there are millions of people throughout the whole world, not just Arabs and Muslims, who will never believe that.
Israel’s allies simply don’t get it. They have allied themselves with the wrong side in a perfectly legitimate struggle for self determination and liberation.
And I’d like to say one last thing. Bomb Syria? Bomb Beirut? All of those are suggestions of committing acts of terrorism. Targetting innocent civlians for “crimes” that they had nothing to do with. To give legitimacy and justification to such action is to automatically give legitimacy to all the suicide bombings that were committed in Israel in the past.
A lot of people in the world today are faced with a big question, and that is whether all this time they have been truely anti-terrorism, or simply pro-Israel!
July 14th, 2006 at 5:27 am
blah blah blah…
That’s not going to happen? Then peace will never happen.
Which means, after all that horsehit, that you are well satisfied with the current state of affairs. Which is war. That’s twice I’ve had to point out the obvious to you, dude
You’re getting what you want. You’re happy. Right?
By the way, any westerners currently in Lebanon… get the fuck out while you still can. The last time this happened, muslim extremist groups kidnapped every westerner they could lay hands on, including diplomats, journalists, and professors at the American University. They held them for years, and killed (tortured to death) many of them. None were rescued. A few escaped. But most were murdered or realeased after 5 or more years of hellish captivity. Don’t end up like that. I’m going to have no sympathy for any westerner who gets taken hostage by Hezbollah or some bullshit-name-x Hezbollah proxy, and I doubt any of your governments will either. History has a way of reapeating itself, and the way westerners are treated in Lebanon during war time is recorded in the history books. Pay attention.
July 14th, 2006 at 5:41 am
“Also, I was pretty sickened by the attacks in Beirut until I read the very reasonable assertion that the entire country is being blockaded to prevent transferring the soldiers to Iran.”
My exact thoughts. Thank you lala.
By the way people, I’d recommend recalling that the difference between Israel and her neighbors is that Israel could destroy all of her enemies yet is investing all of her efforts into minimizing civilian casualties. Her neighbors though can’t destroy all of Israel and are investing all of their efforts into maximizing civilian casualties.
Israel’s moral high ground is unasailable.
July 14th, 2006 at 5:47 am
Damn. Without the words “minimalizing” and “maximalizing” being underlined (as I html attempted), my point Does Not come off clearly. For that indeed is my point.
July 14th, 2006 at 6:33 am
“Which means, after all that horsehit, that you are well satisfied with the current state of affairs. Which is war. That’s twice I’ve had to point out the obvious to you, dude
You’re getting what you want. You’re happy. Right?”
Well it seems that my “horse shit” has been too much for your brain to handle for you to only be able to respond with that.
You have serious comprehension problems my friend. I was responding to a statement that you made; that “Israel will never compensate for its crimes”.
I believe in my last two comments, I made it clear that I personally will not be satisfied until Israel compensates for its crimes, and I said I’m only one example of millions of people who hold such belief.
Now, a person with just an average IQ, or even slightly below average, would understand that if your statement is correct and Israel will never compensate, then based on my responce, I am not happy with the current situation, and that I obviously don’t want it to continue this way; in escalating violence to the point of war. It’s clear that what I want to see happen is Israel compensating Palestinians and other people in the region for the crimes it committed against them. Of course, there’s some compensation that goes the other way too, but it’s really negligible in comparison to the obligations currently stacked up against Israel.
Is that clear enough for you sir? Or do I have to tell your mom to hire a home tutor for you?
July 14th, 2006 at 6:39 am
I like what Israel is doing to terrorists
July 14th, 2006 at 6:46 am
Well it seems that my “horse shit” has been too much for your brain to handle for you to only be able to respond with that.
Dude, you wrote an essay that amounted to a list of unrealistic demands Israel had to meet, and said if they didn’t it would be war.
What did you expect me to respond with? Israel will not meet your demands, so the war will continue. That’s what you want. You said it three times. Which part of this aren’t you understanding? Maybe I can help, if you can explain where I’ve gone wrong in paraphrasing your stupidity?
This is what I see:
You have issued an ultimatum that must be met, or you’ll throw a tempre tantrum.
Your ultimatum has not been met.
You are throwing a temper tantrum. And re-issuing your ultimatum, or you’ll throw another temper tantrum.
Right?
Note: I put it in the terms of an angry child, rather than a war that is getting REAL people killed, because you *seem* like an angry child, to me.
Good thing you aren’t my kid, because I’d be spanking your ass all day long until you changed your fucked up attitude. Is terrorims really all caused by Arab mother’s who spoil their little boys!?
July 14th, 2006 at 7:16 am
Israeli jet fighters kill lebanese children, who’s the terrorist now ?
July 14th, 2006 at 7:35 am
Nasrallah? Just a guess!
I’m starting to think that since Europeans have such a low opinion of Christianity (apparrently) they may as well go back to worshipping the Norse Gods of old. Can’t get into Valhalla unless you die in battle. Worked pretty good for em 1500 years ago. Ask the Romans! I bet 100 million modern day barbarians at YOUR gates would settle your hash pretty good, ahmad. And then you’d be dead. And your women would be slaves. Kinda sounds Islamic style, come to think of it… hmmm…
Fight fire with fire, eh? Blood is a language you understand, right, ahmad?
July 14th, 2006 at 7:37 am
I note a lot of people concerned about the bombing of the airport, but if you look at what they actually hit, it isn’t that substancial. They bombed the runways, and a fuel facility. Essentially they disabled it, but it is easily repared, and the airport will be able to function at full capacity within a short amount of time when they get to rebuild it.
July 14th, 2006 at 8:04 am
Sam, I don’t think there’s any reason the father of the IDF soldier, in honoring his son’s request not to be traded if captured, is guilty of any sort of machismo. He shouldn’t “fuck off”, rather all of Israel should follow his example and refuse trading 1000 to 1 or 100 to 1, whatever, captives in an exchange. Some of these convicted criminals Israel has let free in the past should never have been released. For one thing, many are despicable murderers and for another they’re likely to support if not rejoin the “jihad” against Israel.
July 14th, 2006 at 8:37 am
“Israeli jet fighters kill lebanese children, who’s the terrorist now?”
I know the answer! I know the answer!
It’s always the Jews, isn’t it?
It doesn’t matter whether Israel was attacked, whether the freedom fighters fire rockets at Israeli schools, or whether the brave heroes use children as human shields; because it’s the evil Jews!
Do I get a price?
July 14th, 2006 at 8:50 am
Let’s get one thing straght:
In almost all legal systems, intent matters. It matters so much in some jurisdictions that a difference in intent means the difference between the charge of murder or manslaughter, which can mean the difference between execution and a 5 year jail term.
Intent is similarly important to the Geneva Conventions and the Hague Regulations in determining what constitutes a terrorist act. If there is an INTENTIONAL targeting of civillians - where hitting civillians is ELEVATED to the actual tactic - we have an important element of a crime of international law: terrorism. If civillians are killed as a result of targeting combattants, this is not considered terrorism.
Another two important elements of Geneva and Hague:
1) In order to be considered a legitimate fighting force (as opposed to terrorist group), a group must be
a) clearly identifiable,
b) under a clear leadership
c) must not contravene the Convention or Regulations - ie. must not TARGET non-combattants.
d) Using non-combattants as shields (ie blending in with them) and inviting retaliation in civillian areas is itself, therefore, a crime.
2) The justice of a cause is irrelevant in that it never exonerates the perpetrators of contravention of the Convention or Regulations.
Academia - led by renowned scholar, Alex Schmid - is pretty much unanimous: if an act could be considered a war crime when commited in war time, it is similarly unacceptable as tactic when war has not been declared.
So legally (and I’d say morally) Israel’s acts can not be seen as in any way commensurate with Hamas/Jihad or Hizbollah.
The clearest evidence for this is in the many instances in which it may have been expedient to target civillians en masse in order to cow Israael’s enemy. While the War of Independence may have been problematic in this regard, the current situation and recent history simply do not provide us with intentional massacres of Palestinian or Lebanese civilians.
Sabra and Shatilla, apart from not being recent history was not perpetrated by a knife wielding Sharon, but by the Christian Lebanese Phalange. Israel’s crime in that horror was in failing to prevent the atrocity. While this as certainly a crime, it is of an entirely different scale from that of actually perpetrating the killings.
Now, this is not to say that Israel is blameless in the current situation or that it has not used excessive force. Nor do I seek to exonerate it for killing civillians unnecessarily as a product of such excess. The crime in that case, however, is akin to depraved indifference which, while still unacceptable, is still far away from the magnitude of the intent behind terrorism.
Intent matters.
Running around calling everyone we don’t like terrorists is actually a great weakening of our argument. It is not intellectually rigourous.
All arguments regarding Israel’s actions re terrorism need to be cuoched in the discourse of state terrorism, avoiding the easy trap of equivalence with Hamas/Jihad and Hizbollah.
July 14th, 2006 at 9:33 am
For reasons of paranoia, don’t want to give personal details, but just found out that a close relative may have had her house bombed. There was an attack in her street… we’re in another country, so the phone is hot and the details are sketchy. She and her family are OK and escaped elsewhere, but there were attacks there as well. She and family have now moved somewhere safe. There are lots of children under 5 in that family.
I feel sick.
July 14th, 2006 at 12:48 pm
Sure Ahmad, Israelis are terrorist their past and persent acts speaks for it. They the most brutal, aggressor, invader.
July 14th, 2006 at 12:56 pm
The terrorists Israelis are hitting the north when Hizboallah is in the south, The terrorists Israelis are killing 55 CIVILIANS, the terrorists Israelis will remain terrorists for the rest of their lives.
July 14th, 2006 at 12:59 pm
yes Andrew Brehm, you get a big price.
July 14th, 2006 at 1:02 pm
Twosret, you’ll remain a dumbass for the rest of your life.
July 14th, 2006 at 1:08 pm
I would rather be a dumbass than a criminal of war, a terrorist like you and have blood of innocents on my hands.
Go to hell!
July 14th, 2006 at 1:09 pm
Crazy Jackass,
Blow up doll, eh? I wouldn’t mind that, except if your only wagering $5, it would take forever to raise the money and get me my blow up doll. By that time, I would have already picked up your mom and made her my bitch. Have a nice day.
July 14th, 2006 at 1:13 pm
The solution would be be, rid the world of rag heads
July 14th, 2006 at 1:18 pm
“I would rather be a dumbass than a criminal of war, a terrorist like you and have blood of innocents on my hands.”
Why am I a terrorist? My hands are pretty clean. You, however, are still a dumbass.
July 14th, 2006 at 1:30 pm
Lala,
If you apply any international law to Israel, their politicians will be behind bars long time ago. What international law or geneva convention are you really refering to? Does Israel follow any law? LOL
July 14th, 2006 at 1:32 pm
I believe in my last two comments, I made it clear that I personally will not be satisfied until Israel compensates for its crimes, and I said I’m only one example of millions of people who hold such belief.
In other words, you wont be satisfied until Israel is utterly destroyed. You and the other bloodthirsty “millions who hold such belief”.
Israel’s “crimes” consist of surviving, surviving, and yet surviving again. So until they don’t survive, you’re happy to continue with the situation as it stands.
July 14th, 2006 at 1:33 pm
Israel doesnt give a shit about International law, they are a law to themselves
July 14th, 2006 at 1:37 pm
In the Jewish heart
A Jewish spirit still sings
And the eyes look east
Toward Zion
Our hope is not lost,
Our hope of two thousand years,
To be a free nation in our land,
In the land of Zion and Jerusalem
Hey Lala, you inconsiderate sack of shit: do not include LOL’s at the end of your comments. Does this sound like a laughing matter to you? Thats one thing, secondly, if your the only one laughing at what you think is a joke said by you, don’t because it ain’t funny, just like the girls ain’t pretty in the Middle East. Have a nice day.
July 14th, 2006 at 1:40 pm
Israel is signlehandedly fighting a war against terrorists on two fronts.
Time for decent people unite and help Israel.
That includes Lebanese who would only benefit from the defeat of Hezbollah.
July 14th, 2006 at 1:42 pm
“Israel’s “crimes” consist of surviving, surviving, and yet surviving again. So until they don’t survive, you’re happy to continue with the situation as it stands.”
Israel is a criminal to survive on the cost of another nation. Go to Germany and claim your rights there, go and punish Europe for their acts against you instead of committing the same crimes to arabs that was committed against you by Europe.
July 14th, 2006 at 1:46 pm
“That includes Lebanese who would only benefit from the defeat of Hezbollah.”
Shlemzal, you created an enemy of Lebanese AGAIN, you created enemies of the very few left reasonable arabs that will even consider peace with you. You are not a nation of peace, you are a nation of aggression, hate and wall of shame. The terrorists that you calim you are fighting are the ones who suffer from your oppression, until justice is done you will never have peace.
Get out of the Lebanese and palestinian lands and then talk about terrorism the only TERRORIST now is the Israelis and only the Israelis.
July 14th, 2006 at 1:46 pm
The Hollocaust never happened!
July 14th, 2006 at 1:46 pm
Correction on my last comment, number 131, dated July 14th, 2006 at the time of 1:37pm:
The remarks about what seems to be a joke were intended for Twoshits. However, Lama, your still an inconsiderate sack of shit. Have a nice day.
July 14th, 2006 at 1:54 pm
Thanks to Umkahlil:-
http://umkahlil.blogspot.com
6-12 July 2006
IOF Kill 79 Palestinians, 76 in Gaza Strip
34 resistance activists targeted in non-combat situations
42 civilians
17 children
2 women
3 handicapped
university lecturer, his wife, and 7 of their children
a woman and 2 of her children
3 Palestinians in West Bank
2 children
1 activist resisting IOF incursion into Askar refugee camp
266 Palestinians injured
63 children and
14 females
IOF conducted 47 incursions into Palestinian communities in the West Bank
67 Palestinian civilians arrested
3 children
1 woman
IOF use Palestinian human shields
takes over several civilian houses
5 houses transformed by IOF into military sites.
6 charitable societies in the West Bank were raided by IOF.
250 families totaling nearly 2000 people flee their houses in Rafah and Beit Hanoun
IOF confiscates 45 dunums of agricultural land in southern Hebron.
From Palestine Center For Human Rights, Gaza
July 14th, 2006 at 1:57 pm
What about the Israeli casualties?
July 14th, 2006 at 1:57 pm
Twoshits,
Your figures are biased. Besides, 47.64% of all statistics are bullshit. Have a nice day
July 14th, 2006 at 1:58 pm
It’s my husband’s birthday, but we’re not really into celebrating it.
Without war, no peace I believe. To be honest,.. i was waiting for a war to come. All the needle picking irritations back and fro at each other had to lead to an escalation. Better today than tomorrow. I hope the just will win this war and that those who get more horny seeing weapons than their own wife (or husband) will eventually pay for it big time.
July 14th, 2006 at 2:00 pm
Vince is in the building! Mr. Danger, you are a donkey.
You may recall we went to a PARK IN BOTSWANA!
July 14th, 2006 at 2:01 pm
Suzie Q,
It seems you are in need for a dickin. Feel free to go fuck yourself. Have a nice day.
July 14th, 2006 at 2:19 pm
Twosret,
“Shlemzal, you created an enemy of Lebanese AGAIN, you created enemies of the very few left reasonable arabs that will even consider peace with you.”
I have been reading the blogs and corresponding with my Lebanese friends and can assure you that you are wrong. Their enemy is Hesbollah and they hope that this conflict will get them rid of the bastards who highjecked their country.
July 14th, 2006 at 2:20 pm
Please Karim provide me with some it will be interesting to see the difference, very soon numbers will come out of Lebanon
July 14th, 2006 at 2:23 pm
“In other words, you wont be satisfied until Israel is utterly destroyed. You and the other bloodthirsty “millions who hold such belief”.
Israel’s “crimes” consist of surviving, surviving, and yet surviving again. So until they don’t survive, you’re happy to continue with the situation as it stands.”
Even though what I talked about doesn’t amount to the destruction of Israel, I still would like to ask why we don’t see people like you sad over the destruction and ethnic cleansing that happened when Israel was established. If it weren’t for the crimes committed against Palestinians between 1946 and 1948, Jewish people wouldn’t have had a land to build their country on. And this is by the own admission of the founders of that state.
Just admit the fact that to you humans are not equal in value. To you Palestinians are not people, they’re simply second class humans, not so important humans.
People like you are why the holocaust happened, and why Israel can do what it’s been doing for years to the Palestinians.
July 14th, 2006 at 2:24 pm
Yup Shlemzal Hezballah was the one who invaded Lebanon before and remaind there for 20 something years.
July 14th, 2006 at 2:34 pm
A Non-Semite,
I don’t know how you can carry on leading your life with such a point of view. Your ramblings remind me of little kids in toy stores whining and making a fit over some piece of plastic. If your not happy with what a mighty empire has done, get off your lazy ass and do something about it. Have a nice day.
July 14th, 2006 at 3:06 pm
Twosret,
It may seem awfully unfair to you, but Israel will not tolerate her territory been shelled with missiles and citizens killed and kidnapped without provocation.
I can put it better than our Prime Minister, Stephen Harper.
July 14th, 2006 at 3:07 pm
I meant “I can’t put it better…”
July 14th, 2006 at 3:30 pm
Lala didn’t use LOL, whoever responded to her did. She’s pretty upset by events right now and is probably incapable of using that term.
July 14th, 2006 at 3:51 pm
Sorry #145, but I think it is the Palestinians who view their own people as “second class humans”. It is their government and people who want to trade one Israeli for 1500 Palestinians!! They view this as an even trade. I would say trade one for one.
#146 If “the Lebanese” would stop attacking Israeli territory, the Israelis wouldn’t attack them. It silly to even point this out, Two. Everyone except you seems to know this.
July 14th, 2006 at 4:13 pm
Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay… War in the Middle East and now war on Sandmonkey’s blog… How sweeeeet?!
SIGH!
July 14th, 2006 at 4:18 pm
What “international law” are you talking about, Twosret? Here is a statement by the UN’s top humanitarian official:
The U.N.’s top humanitarian official, Jan Egeland, said Israel’s attacks against transportation infrastructure violated international law and held grave consequences for civilians.
This man, the top UN humanitarian official, is apparrantly completely ignorant of international law. Targetting the enemies infrastructure is an age-old and perfectly VALID military tactic. This man is retarded. Or brainwashed.
And so are you. International Law is REAL, Twostret. It doesn’t mean whatvere the fuck is convenient to you, or to some communist dipshit in a cheap suit at the UN, on any particular day.
You love to copy paste. Copy paste me the text international laws that Israel has violated in the last 3 days, hun. NOT UN RESOLUTIONS OR PROPAGANDA OP-EDS. Copy-paste me the actual laws. OK?
Back your vullshit opinions up for a change. You mighte ven convince somebody that way. Instead of alienating people who might otherwise support you, with your constant vicious attacks.
And thanks for linking that incredible hateful BITCH, Um Khalil. We all need to see just how murderous Palestinians are. She’s a prime example of what Israelis have to deal with. She’d gladly sacrifice her own child if she could kill a jew, I’m sure of it.
July 14th, 2006 at 4:30 pm
BTW people I have a VERY important question for you all… It’s in BLUE… Please debate while maintaining respect for one another… (if that’s ever possible!)
http://sudanesethinker.blogspot.com/2006/07/bye-bye-darfur-hello-me-madness_13.html
Anyways… Up to you… Whatevaaa!!!
July 14th, 2006 at 4:43 pm
“GENEVA — Switzerland said Monday that Israel has been violating international law in its Gaza offensive by heavy destruction and endangering civilians in acts of collective punishment banned under the Geneva conventions on the conduct of warfare.
“A number of actions by the Israeli defense forces in their offensive against the Gaza Strip have violated the principle of proportionality and are to be seen as forms of collective punishment, which is forbidden,” the Swiss Foreign Ministry said in a statement.”
July 14th, 2006 at 4:48 pm
Israel just tried to pop Nasrallah. Reports are on the news now that he was in a building that was just destroyed. Don’t know about the rest of you, but I’m hoping Nasrallah just became a “martyr” - that would be good news, right PalestinianPhilosopher?
July 14th, 2006 at 4:50 pm
Twosert. I specifcially asked you to quote the text of the LAWS. Not some idiotic personal opinions of biased politicians. And what did you do, my dear?
July 14th, 2006 at 4:56 pm
This is why you ned to quote the laws:
principle of proportionality
There is no such “principle” in the Laws of War.
are to be seen as forms of collective punishment, which is forbidden
Collective punishment is forbidden, yes. Destroying enemy infrastructure is NOT. Therefore, destroying enemy infrastructue is NOT to be seen as “collective punishment.”
Quoting idiots does not make you seem smart, twosret, and it doesn’t make you seem RIGHT, either. It only sereves to influence the ignorant, who don’t know any better. This will never end as long as people like you are around to promote lies and deceit.
If you make a claim of illegality, you should be prepared to prove it. As I am prepared to prove the illegality of Hezbolah’s and HAMAS’s actions of the last few weeks.
July 14th, 2006 at 5:11 pm
ok remember this war is not between armies it is between nation states. ive read many posts that ask why civillian infrastructure? well hesbollah is in the civillian democraticly elected government. also to achieve victory you have to force the enemy to bow to your will. lets use the popular ww2 comparison while we were at war with germany we bombed not only german cities but french cities also why? well the people who support the enemy and feed, clothe, and arm, and give emotional support are all legitimate targets. do you think hitler would have killed himself and germany surrender without the utter destruction of all of their infrastructure over an extended period. the answer is no. as for escalation it is natural for things to escalate during wartime. ive talked to ww2 vets and in 1941 the thought of dresden hamburg, berlin being leveled like it was was unthinkable. in fact cities were not initially targetted till a german bomber got lost in the fog and dropped its load on london and england did the same back. that escalated to hundreds and even a thousand b-17’s bringing complete destruction to the enemy. i empathize with civilians who did not vote for hesbollah politicians and want peace the rest get what they elected. when you vote for someone who runs on a platform of war you get what you want so no whining please. hopefully egypt will sit this one out and sandmonkey and BP will be safe.
/rant mode off
July 14th, 2006 at 5:19 pm
I’m hearing calls for the US to get involved militarily, on the news, Twosret. From politicians and pundits both. Are you hearing the same thing?
If the US gets involved, Twosret, in a shooting war - will you still be supporting America’s enemies?
If your answer is yes (as I presume it will be) how can you still pretend to be American? It’s one thing to be anti-war, but to support our enemies is literally treason. Are you going to violate the oath of citizenship you sowre (presuming you actually are a citizen) or are you going to be loyal to your adopted homeland?
If you asnwer the way I expect you to, and if you ahven’t yet sworn the oath of citizenhip, then I sincerely hope somebody notices that and does not offer you the opportunity to become a naturalized US citizen. We don’t need any more enemies within our borders.
July 14th, 2006 at 5:23 pm
As said before many times “PAYBACK’S A BITCH”
July 14th, 2006 at 5:46 pm
Fox News reporting Nasrallah might be cooked! Here’s to hopin’!
July 14th, 2006 at 5:46 pm
Again Craig go to hell when you stop personal attacks you will gain more Credibility. Your personal attacks on me will not be fed at least by me.
Keep being after the person not the message and insult anyone you disagree with and call them bitches.
Only low life people do this and I will not stoop down to your level.
July 14th, 2006 at 5:55 pm
Craig # 160
All through the history there were opposition of war in the United States. Why are you trying to single out and intimidate one person?. Opponents of Vitenam are still writing, opponents of Iraq war are in the streets enjoying their freedom to address war.
I think you should stop your harrassement and intimidation to people. You are the enemy of the United States of America when you spout this kind of posts to people.
What treason are you refering to? I have seen nothing but personal fued that is obvious. I would personally take legal actions against you if you are saying this to me in person.
July 14th, 2006 at 6:01 pm
Poor, poor Twosret. I rolled over for your insults for weeks. I even warned you that one more personal attack on me and I’d start shooting back, Twosret.
Don’t play the victim. It doesn’t become you. There isn’t anyone on this blog that you disagree with, who hasn’t sufferred numerous personal attacks from you. You even called me a “low life” in this very same comment where you are complaining about personal attacks.
By the way. Just for the record. I attacked YOUR MESSAGE first, and then I attacked you for delivering it. Your “message” is bullshit. I asked you to back it up, and you failed to do that. For which I call you dishonest. You are.
July 14th, 2006 at 6:03 pm
peace advocate,
all through the history there were opposition of war in the United States
I already answered that. Opposing a war is not the same thing as supporting your country’s enemies. The later is, by definition, treason. Look it up
As for the rest of your comments, please mind your own business. Twosret has been bashing me (and many others) for months on this blog. Now she’s trying to play the victim.
July 14th, 2006 at 6:05 pm
Craig - Lebanon is NOT my enemy, Hizbollah is… I agree with much of what you say and, although I think it is a VERY slim chance that the U.S. gov’t will involve the military in this, I would not support their attacking Lebanon. Now, Syria and Iraq… There’s a couple of enemies!
I say again that if the gov’t of Lebanon were smart, they would arrest the HA politicians for conducting foreign policy without the approval of the gov’t, drive the Lebanese army south, and trap the HA while Israel drives north crushing the HA. Israel moves back and the Lebanese army takes control of their border.
July 14th, 2006 at 6:14 pm
July 14th, 2006 at 6:21 pm
Craig #166
Nothing of what Twosret or any other person on this blog said is considered treason, I read numerous views, all what I see is a personal matter that should be taken out of a public blog. I’m a reader of this blog for many months, you are out of control and taking things out of proportion, reading along…….I could see that there were conflicts of views between Twosret and other people, it ended up in personal chats and exchanges of e-mails and jokes. Racoon, Steve, Karen, even the Sandmonkey.
Trying to slide the world of treason in your sentences is unacceptable. I would highly advice Twosret to stop replying to your intimidation. This is a difficult time for arabs and Israelis (Palestinians&Lebanese) emotions are high and people are feeling hopeless. Palestinians has never been our enemies Mr. Abbas and his envoy are communicating with President Bush. Even now HizbAllah and our administration is communicating to end this war.
Claim some self respect and don’t start with me telling me to mind my own business, stop your comments if you dislike her.
July 14th, 2006 at 6:26 pm
Can anyone point out any other good blogs with up-to-the-minute updates?
July 14th, 2006 at 6:42 pm
Babs,
Craig - Lebanon is NOT my enemy, Hizbollah is
Same. Hezbollah has killed hundresd of Americans. Hezbollah has been at war with the US since 1983. I have nothing against the Lebanese, but Hezbollah must be destroyed. I say this as an American, not as a “zionist” - Hezbollah is as much an enemy of the US as Al Qaeda is. Hezbollah has been on borrowed time (as far as I’m concerned) for 23 years.
And if the US gets involved, it will only be because of Iran and Syria… and I presume US action would be against Iran and Syria. One or both.
Peace Advocate, if you are a long time reader of this blog (as you say) then you know that Twosret is not in favor of peace. She’s in favor of Israel being defeated.
Claim some self respect and don’t start with me telling me to mind my own business, stop your comments if you dislike her.
I’ll do as I please. And if you choose to get involved in an argument that doesn’t concern you, that’s your business. I don’t even know who you are. If you’re an old-timer on this blog, then you are posting under a pseudonym right now. Which is pretty damned sleazy. You call m a bully for reacting to Twosret’s racist anti-American anti-Jewish rantings? Fuck off.
Twosret’s attitude that it’s OK for her to offend against other’s but it’s not OK for people to hit back seems very apropos to the current crisis.
July 14th, 2006 at 6:53 pm
Bitches and Bastards,
I believe any additions you all wish to make should be 60 words or less. Your useless ramblings cause headaches. Oh, and if anyone has something to say about my suggestion, feel free to go fuck yourselves. Have a nice day.
July 14th, 2006 at 6:57 pm
Well then Craig, we are on the same page on this. I find the French position to be very interesting. Over 50 of their peacekeepers were killed along with the U.S. Marines in 83′. The French gov’t seems to forget that… Wonder how the loved ones of the French lost feel when they hear their gov’t spouting nonsense like “disproportionate response”, etc…
July 14th, 2006 at 7:03 pm
I posted once before on this blog a year ago or so, don’t remember which user name I used, old format on blogger. How important that is to you Craig? Again I don’t see anything Anti-American Twosret posted on this link or any other link. I see Anti-Israeli and military actions.
You are an unfortunate waste of time.
July 14th, 2006 at 7:05 pm
Babsy,
When will you selfish American fucks realize that the world doesn’t like you? You got a dumbass for a leader, and even dumber people for electing him. If that’s not the case, an even dumber and corrupt supreme court that selected him. I don’t care about U.S. marines dying, they chose to be marines. Have a nice day.
July 14th, 2006 at 7:15 pm
Just to be clear here Bobber, do you also not care about the French that lost their lives in Lebanon trying to keep the peace?
If not, then whose lives do you care about?
July 14th, 2006 at 7:19 pm
Does the world also not like the French? Maybe you should draw up a list of the “world’s likes and not likes”. That way, we could all proceed without any confusion… (also, all the “not likes” could stop sending billions of euros of aid abroad). What would be the point?
July 14th, 2006 at 7:19 pm
Babsy,
Ultimately, each and every individual out there cares for his/her own life and no one else’s. When a person dies, thats it, they’re gone. Can’t do much about it. The French who tried to keep the peace chose to get involved, they’re dead now. Boo fucking hoo. Have a nice day.
July 14th, 2006 at 7:24 pm
Try openlebanon.com for updates.
July 14th, 2006 at 7:36 pm
When will you selfish American fucks realize that the world doesn’t like you?
Maybe you should draw up a list of the “world’s likes and not likes”.(all the “not likes” could stop sending billions of euros of aid abroad). What would be the point?
Not able to respond Mr. Bob??? Boo f’n hoo on you!!! Sure would like to read your list…
July 14th, 2006 at 8:03 pm
Ultimately, each and every individual out there cares for his/her own life and no one else’s.
So what are you doing here? Is your life in jeopardy? If it is, shouldn’t you be doing something besides sitting on your lard ass making idiotic blog comments?
And if it’s not… and you don’t give a fuck about what happens to anyone else, by your own words, right? So…. remind us… what is it you hope to accomplish here?
July 14th, 2006 at 10:04 pm
I would NOT assume that there’s even a semblence of truth in Jamal’s acessment.
Anyone who’s followed middle eastern wars at all has come to realize that Arab is all bound up in winning and being stronger - so Arabs ALWAY lie. They always say they’re too strong to hit and that they’re winning, even as their last man is dying. Even the military leaders lie to each other.
No, I think that Israel is blockaiding Lebanon because she wants to see political pressure to end the attacks on Israel. Hezbollah can’t change it’s stance anymore than Hamas can. Only the Lebanese can shoot that dog.
Besides, this isn’t only about Lebanon, it’s about showing middle easterners that the people will suffer whenever they attack Israel. That killing Jews isn’t just a harmless spectator sport, loved by all. That there will consequences, even to those who didn’t sign up to the Jew-killing team.
My reading is that if Israel really worried about the missile, she’d risk being hit by them now and launch a full scale invasion. Israelis really believe that their existance is threatened, not by Hezbollah, but by the war that never ends. Israelis thing about the future, the far future. If the missiles were a real threat, she’d take them out now.
They’re not that bad after all. So far long range missiles from Hezbollah have killed 2 civilians. They’re still withing what Israel can absorb. They’re not nuclear tipped or anything intolerable. Which is a good thing, because if they were, then Lebanon would be in even greater danger.
July 14th, 2006 at 10:07 pm
… one more thing. These half-assed, “we’ve got them whipped now” poses are SO DAMN STUPID.
Damn middle easterners! Get it through your head, war isn’t about prestige, it’s not a shiny new car, it’s about killing innocent people. It’s about survival.
If you were stronger, you wouldn’t have Israel beat, you’d be hit by nukes and crying like babies. For God’s sake, grow the fuck up!
July 14th, 2006 at 10:33 pm
Hezbollah got 400 prisoners for an Israeli businessman. Just think what they’ll get for two soldiers. As for Israel being afraid to bomb hezbollah….Nasrallah’s house is rubble,LOL.
July 14th, 2006 at 10:35 pm
“When will you selfish American fucks realize that the world doesn’t like you?”
Knowing and giving a flying shit are two very different things.
July 14th, 2006 at 10:36 pm
*sigh*
A friend of my father’s and his best friend’s son were among the casualties, too.
Nasrallah is still, apparently, contaminating the universe with his continued existence.
Twosret - you’v flipped and lost all pretense to reason. Why?
Look, it’s simple, people… Israel ( a sovereign nation-state) has been attacked without warning from Lebanon (also a sovereign nation-state). The perpetrators are a leading party in Lebanon. Israel is destroying Hizballah’s strongholds and trying to cut off the means of smuggling kidnapped Israelis to Iran. Moreover, Israel is obviously acting with great care - there are less than a 100 casualties on the Lebanese side. Had Israel reacted with the needed force to stop the attacks on its territory (the North of Israel is being both evacuated and constantly hit, I can hear the explosions all the time), there would be hundreds of thousands of casualties until now - because that have meant levelling the Southern parts of Lebanon for 60 KM (the announced range of Hizballah’s weapons), destroying ALL the communication, water, electricity and transportation infrastructure which Hizballah might use and then going in with ground forces - which would be moving on smoking, blackened ground cleaned up by the airforce.
Please note that this is not what Israel is doing, even though it was attacked by another sovereign state.
I am amazed that anyone would even think to fault Israel with EXCESSIVE use of force, when it has actually been acting - as usual - with superlative, possibly exessive restraint.
What the hell is wrong with you, people? If your country was suddenly attacked with massive rocket barrages how do you think it would react?
Bleah. It seems to be a “forces of reason vs the forces of unreason” here. Or is it just same old jolly genocidal anti-semitism which so endeared Hitler to the people?
July 14th, 2006 at 10:41 pm
“Or is it just same old jolly genocidal anti-semitism”
When did Arabs stop being semites?
July 14th, 2006 at 10:49 pm
Perry - look up the origins of the expression “anti-semitism”.
July 14th, 2006 at 11:02 pm
Raccoon,
I was in the doctors office the other day,about to sign the registry,when a young woman snatched it out of my hands. I snapped You bitch!,and then saw the kamikaze rag on her head. She retorted with asshole,but I could tell she thought I was a religionist…..or racist,or culturist,or whatever.
I think if you really,REALLY want to smack someone upside the head,it doesn’t matter a whole lot why.
July 14th, 2006 at 11:03 pm
Again, it’s always the Hizbullah morons that cause the problems and Lebanese people are helpless in kicking them out. It’s time for the Lebanese to get rid of Hizbullah or go back 20 years!
July 14th, 2006 at 11:07 pm
Perry - uhm. What’s that got to do with the price of fish in Ko Chiang, again?
July 14th, 2006 at 11:08 pm
Bobber
1 word
PATHETIC!
If you are just looking for some sport and being disruptive, please go elsewhere. I may not agree with what some of the people say in here, but they are intitled to their opinions without being called such things! My guess is you are some teenaged, pimplefaced, chronic masterbater who gets his jollies fucking around with people trying to have a legitimate arguement. I have yet to see you post one positive thing. Call me whatever you wish, I just skip over you and let you lie in the gutter. Goodbye!
July 14th, 2006 at 11:13 pm
“What’s that got to do with the price of fish in Ko Chiang, again?”
Point is,some folks might be anti-semites. Others might think Jews are okay,but Israeli’s are assholes. So,does it really matter to an Israeli WHY a billion people want him dead? I don’t think so. All the poor fool can do is keep his finger on the little red button,and be ready to take down humanity with him.
July 14th, 2006 at 11:13 pm
Can anyone tell me how Israel is going to make peace with the Palestinians now? It’s just been told that the Palis and their patrons (Syria, Iran) won’t rest until there is no Israel. If there’s a “Palestine” in the West Bank, how exactly does Israel defend itself against a full-blown invasion? There are some Israelis here — do any Israelis besides the communist left still think all the Palis want to do is live in peace in their own country? Can any Arabs here tell me how Israel is supposed to feel confident returning to the “roadmap to peace”?
July 14th, 2006 at 11:17 pm
“Palis and their patrons (Syria, Iran) won’t rest until there is no Israel.”
If Israel goes,the entire region becomes radiactive for about fifty thousand years….or longer. Make no mistake. The last Israeli standing WILL blow up the entire fucking middle east.
July 14th, 2006 at 11:18 pm
NJB - uhm. The Hamas are very open about what they want. And that’s Israel destroyed, all the Jews dead… and what that holy feat is accomplished, to conquer and destroy the world.
Hey - how can you be against giving these guys a state?
You fucking racist
July 14th, 2006 at 11:23 pm
> Perry - look up the origins of the expression “anti-semitism”.
Translated from hebrew Newspeak:
“We - and only we - are the master race!”
(Includes the right to beg, rob and finally murder
other semites to preserve the inevitable rule of
the master race!)
July 14th, 2006 at 11:28 pm
Well, ok Raccoon, I’ve appreciated sarcasm ever since I learned the word in 6th grade. Do you know my friend Vadia? He lives in Israel…. Can anyone point me to any blogs or articles written by former Israeli doves? If anyone can point me to similar by Arabs who have concluded that a Pali state is no longer viable (if any Arab has the guts to do so publicly), that’d be great too.
July 14th, 2006 at 11:30 pm
> Twosret has been bashing me ..
So speaks the insult on mankind - the apologist and
supporter of robbing and murdering - not just virtually
in a blog - twosret’s relatives.
To stop fascism in Israel we have to stop it in Amnesia
first. And as with all amnesians - they only “understand”
violence.
July 15th, 2006 at 12:11 am
…” I find the French position to be very interesting. Over 50 of their peacekeepers were killed along with the U.S. Marines in 83′. The French gov’t seems to forget that… Wonder how the loved ones of the French lost feel when they hear their gov’t spouting nonsense like “disproportionate response”, etc… “…
thank you to care about our dead peacekeepers in Lebanon, in other purpose you would have said those bastard frenchs deserved their fate, anyways, our government is telling what other european governments do, funny that you always drop the frenchs inside your mess
July 15th, 2006 at 2:47 am
#169…Babs Says:
July 14th, 2006 at 6:05 pm
Craig - Lebanon is NOT my enemy, Hizbollah is… I agree with much of what you say and, although I think it is a VERY slim chance that the U.S. gov’t will involve the military in this, I would not support their attacking Lebanon. Now, Syria and Iraq… There’s a couple of enemies!
U have to be joking.. Hezzbooooolah hold cabinet positions in Lebanon, they are in Lebanon because Lebanon allows them to be there.. Are you really saying that Lebanon is an innocent bystander???
July 15th, 2006 at 3:08 am
Some points for U anu Israel types tp ponder..
Pope Benedict has come down on Israel for using “exessive force”
There are LOTS of groups, that over the centuries have legitimate beefs with the Catholic Church.What would the Pope do if oh say Protestants, to avenge past injustices at the hand of previous popes, started lobbing rockets and sent suicide bombers into the Vatican city daily??
Blacks in America have legitimate beefs as to how they have been treated.
What would Americans do if blacks sent suicide bombers into American malls and blew up innocents, women and children, DAILY???
Aboriginals in Canada, Austrailia, New Zealand have legitimate beefs.
What would Canada, Austrailia, and New Zealand do if aboriginals were suicide bombing their populations, DAILY????
France committed all kinds of atrocities in it’s past, what would the French do if they were faced with rockets being lobbed at them daily from England or Spain..???
Can any of you anti Israel types figure it out???
July 15th, 2006 at 7:27 am
Gotta love Monty Python:
French Soldier: I don’t want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper. I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries.
July 15th, 2006 at 7:31 am
dug, you’re quite a bit exaggerating concerning your “daily” remark, but nevertheless; yes, I wonder how other (steady) countries would react when this happen to them.
Im referring to steady ones as Iraq gets about daily suicide or car bombed in which many mainly innocent civilians are dragged into death. More a day than those 60 Palestinians (of which mainly militants) during the Gaza raid.
Do your calculation.
July 15th, 2006 at 9:26 am
France committed all kinds of atrocities in it’s past, what would the French do if they were faced with rockets being lobbed at them daily from England or Spain..??? I love that one, sure english people and spain too ! yes we are the dirty cruel ones on this hollywood moovie ! your education is more and more astonishing, hey poor lowed mind gui, after that, you would like us to agree and go in your mess doing the job for you, no ways
July 15th, 2006 at 9:52 am
hey, Suzanne what’s make you sure the gui you are supposed to altercate is french ?
he could be one of the 50 % of americans who didn’t vote for Bush, or any gui in Europe states, or a Russian, or a Chinese, or ME…
when something doen’t go round in your minds, it’s always frenchs !
we are your “jews”
July 15th, 2006 at 10:04 am
@nomad, don’t worry, generally speaking I like the French and their food and their country
It’s just the clear hypocricy of the French government which I dislike and their people buying it.
I believe the French (government and army) know very well what kind of opponent Hezbollah is. That they are calling Israel to restrain itself, as their actions were in their opinion out of proportion is outrageous. So far bridges, airports and high ways have been bommed. Important strategical military targets - which unfortunately also affect the civilians. But a war cannot be fought without civilian losses. What do the French want? That Israel releases all the Lebanese imprisoned people? That Israel bombs only corn fields?
What if an Algerian starts to fuck Paris up by kidnapping some guards and stating the French should release all imprisoned Algerians?
July 15th, 2006 at 11:03 am
Roast pig guest-stars on Bush visit to Germany
Thu Jul 13, 2006 03:17 PM BST
Bush and Merkel split over trade
By Tom Armitage
STRALSUND, Germany (Reuters) - U.S. President George W. Bush had more on his mind than Iran’s nuclear programme, Middle East tensions and Russian press freedoms during a visit to Germany on Thursday.
He kept mentioning a wild boar, slaughtered and roasted according to local tradition, that he planned to share at a dinner with German Chancellor Angela Merkel in her home constituency at a Baltic resort.
“I’m looking forward to the feast you’re going to have tonight. I understand I may have the honour of slicing the pig,” Bush told Merkel at the outset of their joint news conference in Stralsund, north of Berlin.
A few minutes later — after discussing Iran, the Middle East, the merits of press freedoms in Russia and progress on the Doha round of free trade talks — Bush returned to the boar.
“Thank you for having me,” he told Merkel. “Looking forward to that pig tonight.”
Bush answered a few more questions before wandering back to the boar for a third time.
“I haven’t seen that pig yet,” Bush said out of the blue. Merkel laughed and said she had seen television pictures of the boar and could verify it was dead, adding she hoped it was on the spit and ready in time for dinner.
Near the end of the 30-minute briefing, Bush fielded a question about the Middle East with his fourth pig rejoinder.
“I thought you were going to ask about the pig,” he told a reporter, who then said he was indeed curious about that too.
“The pig?” Bush said. “I’ll tell you tomorrow after I eat it.”
© Reuters 2006. All Rights Reserved.
yours ears are always turned toward french frequence,
you may know, Austria is leading Europe at the moment, and next will be Germany,
Chirac is not more an hypocrit as any other political representants in world wilde, he is in the european discours, part in East and Arab world too, it is our story since 1500 years
Algerian in Paris are french, they won’t play that game , but another partition
Anyways, we have secret services very efficient on that eventuality !
By the ways, Americans come and drink at their very service too, don’t say that, it is a secret !
July 15th, 2006 at 11:44 am
Nomad, I thought Finland is leading Europe at this moment. Of course the EU is one body, but the EU states can still act independently and some aspects. Also, to be honest, I fear more of the Brits and their public opinion than the French concerning this - especially their actions around the cartoon affair are worrying.
My Algerian story was just an example to illustrate what is happening. I am not saying that the Algerians are up to something
And I am sorry, but I do not understand your last sentence.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:09 pm
As an American who lived through 9-11, I am absolutely amazed at the comments here blaming Hassan, Hezbollah and the Hammas for the bombing of Beirut.
Does everyone who reads this blog and posts have a collective memory loss? Have you tried to count the number of targeted killings Israel has conducted against Hammas, Fatah, etc. in the past months. Have you forgotten that Gaza is completely isolated and unable to function economically?
Olmert, along with his Neo-Cons here in the US, wants to extremist to take the lead in the Arab world so he can justify exactly what was done this week: bomb the hell out fo the Arab world.
War is war. To call one side terrorism because they don’t represent an established government or standing army is ludicrous. Any government that kills civilians is committing terrorism. the US collateral damage and the Israeli bombing campains are just as much an act of terrorism as a suicide bomber.
In the end, we in the USA are to blame. We have given Israel the green light on this brutal action for years, along with millions of $$ to implement it. 9/11 was a result of the Israeli occupation. We can only imagine what will happen now that Israel is bombing the hell out of Beirut.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:37 pm
Don’t forget your tinfoil hat, acetracy!
July 15th, 2006 at 1:39 pm
“9/11 was a result of the Israeli occupation. ”
lol
yes, and the tsunami was because Sharon accidently fell from his bed.
July 15th, 2006 at 3:44 pm
You guys didn’t address any of his/her points. Being sarcastic does not make you any smarter.
July 15th, 2006 at 6:26 pm
Vince - some things are such obvious lunacy that refuting them seems pointless. I will, however, just for you. Actually, that particular comment is so full of insane bullshit that I have no time or desire to address them all. A few of the points:
There is a difference between targeting civilians on purpose while trying to maximize casualties and targeting military/state installations while trying to minimize civilian casualties. There is also a difference between an army - clearly identifiable and with its own installations; and criminals - impossible to differentiate from civilians and hinding among the latter.
Israel has been defending itself from before its existence as a state. This situation did not stop with Israel becoming an official nation-state: as a matter of fact, it has exacerbated. In self-defense, Israel has always practiced almost suicidal restraint, while its enemies have been doing the opposite. The purpose of the wars from the point of Israel is survival; from the point of Israel’s enemies, the total destruction of the Zionist state and another genocide of the Jews.
Is there a point to continue?
July 16th, 2006 at 6:00 pm
freaking bold
As an American who lived through 9-11, I am absolutely amazed at the comments here blaming Hassan, Hezbollah and the Hammas for the bombing of Beirut.
As another American who lived through 9-11 (just thought I’d say that since it seems to mean I’m going to say something important next!
) I am absoultely amazed that you make this analogy!
Hint: A proper analogy would be to say people were wrong for blaming Al Qaeda for the destruction that was wrought on Afghanistan in October-December 2001.
Your version has dropped the “cuase” portion of the cause and effect principal. You know, the old “every action has an equal and opposite reaction” thingie? Or something like that :O
You’ve got a long list of reactions, without any preceding actions. Which is no doubt the cause of your amazement. Reality doesn’t work that way. Sorry. That’s a victim mentality you’ve got there. You sure you are American? With all this shit happening for no apparrent (to you) reason, you certainly don’t seem like a typical American to me.
July 17th, 2006 at 11:24 pm
Awwwww, and here I was expecting that reply from Twosret. Oh well. Business as usual.
July 18th, 2006 at 7:22 pm
[...] Rantings of a Sandmonkey: The responses of the people in Egypt are…interesting. My dad’s view is that comic sadness “Those poor lebanese. Every single time they rebuild Beirut, it gets destroyed, so they rebuild it again, and it gets destroyed again. It’s like a Seesaw!”, while my co-worker H. response is of “We should go to War, and attack Israel, if we have any sembelnce of diginity or self-respect. War War war, rah rah rah, blah blah blah”, all said while he lounges confortably in his leather chair.” [...]