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Tuesday, 18 Jul 2006
Ok, in regards to those pictures again, this is what happened:
I sent the link to Lisa immedietly, asking for some sort of explanation on how this could've happened. Lisa, outraged, decided to find the Photographer and ask him herself what happend. After she got the story, she confirmed it again with another Journalist who was there. The following are her words, copied and pasted from a Gmail chat. Make your own conclusions:
Lisa: okay
got the whole story
i have to write about it, but it will be very difficult
it is not at all what it looks like
not at all
shit shit shit
you wanna hear?
Sent at
me: say
Lisa: okay
it's a long story
me: short
and sweet version
Lisa: kids were in
bomb shelters for days. city is a ghost town.only poor people stayed
a new army unit arrived, kids were bored, went out with
parents to lookthere were TWELVE photographers there
and they egged the kids on
the kids are low class, not educated, have never met a
Lebanese, just want to live their lives, don't understand why Lebanon
attacked their home, etc.the photographers told them "hey, your cousins in america
will see you!"mostly foreign photographers
so the kids, who were bored and restless and had been cooped
up in bomb shelters for 5 days, took the felt markers and drew messages to
nasrallahthere were no cries of hatred toward lebanese
and a big problem is that the israeli tv does not show dead
lebanese. it shows destroyed buildings, but not dead bodies. so no one has a
face of the dead in their minds. too aware of our own suffering, etc.make sense?
She will post on this later on today.
July 18th, 2006 at 12:58 pm
you and your friends, so the problem is the “low class, not educated” children
July 18th, 2006 at 1:00 pm
SM, you’re more sane than I am today. I think I’m going to shut up for a while.
July 18th, 2006 at 1:03 pm
This makes more sense. We don’t teach our children to hate.
The AP, AFP, and the vast majority of the world media just loves to get Israelis and Jews in pictures that are completely out of context, so as to forward their own lefty agenda. Seen this for more than a quarter century, been happening far longer than that from what I understand.
July 18th, 2006 at 1:05 pm
sorry as the denial continues i will have to past same comments on this thread as well
Having the Zionists under heat will soon reveal their ugly face that is not much different from that of Hamas. If you like to add more balanced posts i can send you a photo i found on the BBC of a 7 years old settler in Hebron holding and learning to fire an M16, then we can speak about the whole essence of incarcerating 120,000 natives in a maze of check points and security fences so that 400 settlers can enjoy being close to their religious sites on a stolen land.
I read an interview with one refusniks in Israel, the cousin of Benjamin Netanyahu, few days ago. Among other things he said that it is a habitual practice in Israel to take school children to visit military sites and have a close experience with tanks, arms and even fighter jets. Perhaps the Israelis start military training at a very early age. Building the brave fighter who will drop a 500 lb bomb on a residential area needs a lot of psychological training in his/her childhood I guess, otherwise the human part in him/her might wake up and makes the mission of burning children difficult.
July 18th, 2006 at 1:09 pm
“This makes more sense. We don’t teach our children to hate.”
Of course not. Israeli kids would never do this. There must be other explanations!
July 18th, 2006 at 1:10 pm
At the start of WW I, the British inflated stories of German atrocities to fire up the public in righteous indignation. Largely faked stories of German troops raping and pillaging their way across poor defenceless Belgium had crowds in the streets destroying shops with Germanic names, the British Royal family changed their name from Battenburg to Windsor and even the breed of German Shepherd dogs were renamed Alsatians after the hatred had been properly stoked by time and death.
How easy are people’s minds manipulated. You can’t blame the kids, the parents or the troops unless you see them all standing around laughing and pointing at the event. These things are often twisted to the most salesworthy and newsworthy story, by people whose families live in a part of the world where this will have no influence. People like Murdoch have a lot to answer for.
July 18th, 2006 at 1:12 pm
Amgad -
We are not “Zionists,” okay? We are human beings. And if you are judging an entire people based on what you see on a sensationalistic television news segment then you are guilty of the worst kind of intellectual laziness. And, I am sorry to say, but this time I just cannot hold back - you are really ignorant.
July 18th, 2006 at 1:14 pm
The explanation doesn’t surprise me. The media wants lurid headlines and shocking imagery to drive ratings. They don’t care how they get it and they don’t care if the decontextualize the truth to manufacture a reaction. In fact, its their modus operandi these days. Egging the kids on would be in character.
At the same time: I think “low class,” is a polemic designed to play to extant prejudices and diminish the potential harm done to Israel by the photos - and is somewhat bigoted as well. Children of all classes are easily led, love being the center of attention, and look up to adults. And by definition, all children are uneducated. It takes two decades (more for some people) to make a full grown human being capable of making responsible choices. Some people never get there.
Maybe the parents are low-class and uneducted, but there’s no way to be certain of that. After all, 2/3 rds of the population in the affected areas stayed put. It would be disingenious to classify 2/3 rds of the population of the north as being “low class,” even though doing so is an expedient way to dismiss the photos out of hand. Not to mention that some of these kids are writing in English. At that age most Israeli kids can’t do that, which would indicate Anglo parents (who tend to be better educated and more affluent than the national average).
The problem is the photographers lack of ethics and the parents lack of sense, but then, wisdom is seldom conventional and sense is far from common.
July 18th, 2006 at 1:14 pm
“The AP, AFP, and the vast majority of the world media just loves to get Israelis and Jews in pictures that are completely out of context, so as to forward their own lefty agenda.”
Conspiracy against Israel? Ofcourse!
July 18th, 2006 at 1:14 pm
They are Israeli under age terrorists that are fed on hate. When the arabs cry loud and say that extremists are uneducated they tell us off!
Those kids are the core values of Israel. What goes around comes around you know!
July 18th, 2006 at 1:22 pm
Re. “low class” i regret that statement intensely. I wrote it in the heat of the moment and I wish I could take it back.
The Hebrew expression I quoted is children of the peripheral towns (peripheria) and it is not a nice thing to say because it implies (falsely) that one’s provenance dictates one’s intelligence.
The reporter with whom I spoke prefaced that remark with the words, “Look, it’s a generalization but I’m using it as a kind of shorthand.” It was totally wrong of me to translate that expression. My point is that these are kids who did not understand what they were doing. And that they do not and did not intend to express hatred toward Lebanese.
I really hope that that message will penetrate a few thick skulls, but I doubt it.
July 18th, 2006 at 1:23 pm
This is how much Lisa is willing to protect the image of her country SM learn from her!!!!!
July 18th, 2006 at 1:26 pm
to lisa
If you don not believe in the legitimacy of transferring millions of natives from your “promised land” and that inflecting any death and destruction to bring about this project is justified. Then you are not a Zionist, and therefore should not be offended of me describing them. Please do not reefer me to some wikipedia page explaining the sublime essence of the Zionist project, i already read many similar thing. this project boils done to death, destruction and transfer.
July 18th, 2006 at 1:27 pm
Amgad -
You really need to read George Orwell’s 1984 and then consider your own perceptions and mental habits within its context. The polemics you are regurgitating are a wonderful example of the state-run media’s Goodthink at its finest. Not to mention to labelling of large classes of people that serves to truncate thought and limit critical thinking (Newspeak).
Help yourself. In doing so you’ll also help the rest of us.
July 18th, 2006 at 1:27 pm
Erm,.. it’s not Jewish to show dead people, really.
July 18th, 2006 at 1:28 pm
I agree with Israel guy: “The problem is the photographers lack of ethics and the parents lack of sense, but then, wisdom is seldom conventional and sense is far from common.”
July 18th, 2006 at 1:32 pm
So the trips of the school children to the efficient killing machines of the IOF are for mere recreational purposes and they happen just occasionally. You better sue the nephew of you former prime Minster for claiming the it is a habitual practice the encompasses all Israeli children from all areas and “classes”
July 18th, 2006 at 1:32 pm
Lisa - to say things we reget in the heat of the moment is human.
July 18th, 2006 at 1:32 pm
There is only one explanation:
This pictures were fake. AP is lying and doctored photos to harm Israel’s image abroad. Israel never does anything inhumane.
Why is everyone harassing Israel these days? She is the only one sticking up for civilization in the midst of chaos.
July 18th, 2006 at 1:37 pm
To mis-state things in the heat of the moment is human….bombing children is not.
July 18th, 2006 at 1:41 pm
Israeli Guy
Would you please explain to me what the perceptions and mental habits that i have and need to be changed to help myself and everybody else? After all this is another noble mission of the Zionists: to teach the barbarians around how to be civilized
July 18th, 2006 at 1:45 pm
Although I think these pictures are disgraceful given they are children and putting the entire ” low class etc as an excuse ” issue asside,one wonders how any parent would allow their child to approach such a vicious weapon no matter who it was intended for. However, if LISA is telling it like it and these messages were to nasrallah, then, while again not excusing it, I can understand. If the messages were not to the Lebanese people, then why the uproar.
These pictures have raised an interesting issue though. I hear certain of Middle Eastern persuasion, on this board, spew fury at these photos as a justification for their actions against Israel but when it is their side that is screaming ” death to Israel ” en mass ( mass gatherings of hate ), this is acceptable.
This is hypocracy at it’s pinnacle. You cannot condemn the other side for spewing hate and excuse your own side for the same. It is all inexcusable.
July 18th, 2006 at 1:55 pm
“This pictures were fake. AP is lying and doctored photos to harm Israel’s image abroad. Israel never does anything inhumane.”
The same old story of the Zionism, DENIAL and manipulation of world events.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:00 pm
Ok, I don’t think the pictures are fake but I do think they are taken out of context and twisted to suit whatever point people want to make.
If you take them from the point of view of the children I see smiling faces (probably because it’s the first bit of fun they’ve had in days) and not hate filled eagerness to kill. Which is more likely from young children?
The photographers and parents do not help matters but they might not realise how it will look from some angles. You’ve got to look at this rationally.
People who are determined to make this into a confrontation and negative image are just pathetic things who enjoy creating strife and hate. They need to get a life!!!
July 18th, 2006 at 2:05 pm
Point 1: The only visible message in the photos posted appears to read “To Nassrallah with Love.” It does not read “Death to Lebanon,” or “Die Islam Die.” If these kids are in artillery range of Lebanon, they are in rocket range from Lebanon, and the leader of the forces that are firing rockets at them is Nassrallah. Hell, if I was there I’d be writing on shells too.
Point 2: According to Lisa’s update, she tracked down the photojournalist who took the pictures and got the actual context of the shot from him, AND coroborated that story with another journalist who was there. The photographer instigated this episode. If ya’ll want to be pissed off at somebody, be pissed off at a news photographer who posed a picture designed to inflame hatred and outrage. I am willing to bet cash money that they stage photos of Palestinian and Lebanese kids in militant context as well.
The media has become jackals, the carrion crows of warfare.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:05 pm
Low class, not educated? What, they haven’t finished their BA yet? That’s what happens when you try to compare life in the US with life in Israel.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:07 pm
While I am sorry to see such pictures that are an insult to humanity, I am a bit pleased that it found its way to the media cause in the past we have seen much focus on Palestinian children holding weapons.
It helped forming a bad image about Arabs around the world back then. Now, people around the world would learn that we are not the only ones who have some savage minds who use childrens, Israel has those kind of people as well.
If a low class and poverty excuse works for them, it most definatly works for us as well….
July 18th, 2006 at 2:09 pm
Amgad - even though you’re a bigot and will probably ignore anything that doesn’t fit your sick and hateful worldview… I’ll try to give you some information.
The “children being shown the efficient killing machines of the IOF” are people who’re about to finish school and be drafted. The State does week-long familiarization programs with the military so that the kids will be better prepared for what they are about to enter, and so that they can make better choices for their military careers. Israel has compulsory military service because scum like you tried to pull an Auschwitz on us a number of times since the creation of this state, and are not showing are lack of desire to continue trying.
Keep on lying, keep on hating - it will not help you. We’ve returned to our homeland and we’ve returned for good.
Twosret - I am again disappointed with you. You failed to answer my question, you ignore anything that challenges your twisted perception. How does it feel, to be in the camp of eee and Amgad?
July 18th, 2006 at 2:09 pm
@Amgad, Sandmonkey is a good example of how you can try to make the world a better place. Instead of spreading hatred throughout blogs.
Love from an alleged zionist
July 18th, 2006 at 2:09 pm
For children to hate a TERRORIST MASTERMIND - Nasrallah - it’s not a moral loss to the Israelis. However, I’ve read arab books for schoolchildren which demonise our entire nation. How can you equate?
On another note, I’ve noted several commentators hate SM because he shows a different point of view from the mainstream Arab party line. A different point of view is going to be your first step into democracy.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:15 pm
I am probably more ancient than most of you and was bombed considerably during WW2.
Magnesium incendiaries were the preferred item in those days and many failed to ignite. As kids we played with them - paying lip service to the adults who told us it was dangerous. Many carried hand written messages which did not wish us well, some in English and some in German (which mostly remained obscure). Neither we nor our parents considered those messages to be even in bad taste, they were just a curious part of the scene.
The whole killing business, military or terrorist, is vastly unpleasant but there seems something almost absurd about the way the followers of every phase of every conflict, are turning over the shrapnel looking for irrefutable evidence of evil intent. Is this a part of proving one’s own innocence perhaps ?
July 18th, 2006 at 2:22 pm
Amgad- Twosret-
Zionist! Zionist! Zionist!……..Seems to be a recurring theme with you two. The bloody record stuck?.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:24 pm
It’s quite interesting to read all the comments and form immediate opinions as to who is able to make reasonable, rational, objective opinions about such a subjective event and who i can easily imagine as foaming at the mouth while they type, rabid fundamentalists from either side who cannot see an interpretation without wanting to rant about the obvious truth of their subjective opinion.
Is a forum of discussion such as this not a place for a meeting of minds and exchange of opinions rather than a display of cant?
And Uchuck, when haven’t the media been the first to plunder the bodies and sell souvenirs? There are exceptions.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:25 pm
As someone who’s neutral and has spent a fair amount of time with working photojournalists…
Lisa’s explanation isn’t kosher. Photographers can be manipulative as hell, but “hey, go draw on the bomb” seems beyond the realm of possibilities.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:27 pm
Give me a link to your question Raccoon, too many posts by SM and tried to look this morning for it and was lost in the hundreds of posts.
Awaiting…..
July 18th, 2006 at 2:28 pm
to the Racoon
People like me would never try to pull death and destruction on anybody. I deplore the attack on the humans by the same degree regardless of the identity tag of the victim. Therefore, I believe seriously that the Zionist state is as criminal as Hamas and Hizobllah. Both sides are killing innocents for tactical and ideological purposes
July 18th, 2006 at 2:32 pm
Raccoon,
My views were out there long before eee and Amgad showed up so grouping people together is a bad idea Raccoony, I thought you are more mature than this, I am not intimidated or threatened by your words. I didn’t twist or change any of my opinions. I have been a blogger for years and non of what I said changed through the years.
This is an untolerable banality of evil!
July 18th, 2006 at 2:33 pm
Amgad,
Well Said thank you!
July 18th, 2006 at 2:36 pm
Why was the writing in english? Kids that age in israel can’t write that much in english I don’t think - from experience with my husband’s relatives kids. I can understand if the soldiers wrote those messages, that makes a lot of sense to me.
the parents who took their children there need to have their heads examined. They are in the bomb shelters while sirens go off, the sirens stop and they come out and go to the nearest army position? presumably a target? where it is impossible to get to any good shelter in one minute? Something is f#$#ed up there.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:38 pm
Yeah, well, I am a Zionist. You can call me a Zionist all day long as far as I am concerned. First of all, although I find Lisa interesting, her liberal class bias slipped through just then. Lower class? Mizrachi maybe? Sorry but that’s just bogus, lisa.
Secondly, I am not surprized by this photo, as no one is an angel here on earth. My experiences in Northern Ireland have tought me that photographers can be the scum of the earth when it comes to encouraging the base instincts to get a “sensational” photo.
Yes it’s disgusting, but is it really all that shocking?
July 18th, 2006 at 2:38 pm
Wishbone,
Did the Zionist ideology die and we didn’t hear about it?
July 18th, 2006 at 2:45 pm
I dare say Uchuck in comment #25 said it well. This really isn’t as complicated as the comments here are making it. What’s so complex about the fact that these kids who have been hiding from Hizbollah rockets want to see an end to Nasrallah? Maybe kids shouldn’t be writing on artillery. Whatever. That’s their parents; business, no one else’s. And Lisa spoke with the journalists and gave us the info. Case closed.
For cryin’ out friggin’ loud, people!!!!!
July 18th, 2006 at 2:48 pm
Amgad - ah yes, moral equivalence. The person who’s killing civilians on purpose and the person who’s killing civlians by mistake while acting in self-defense are, of course, the same. Kind of like a cop that downs a psychotic murderer when being shot at is exactly the same as the psychotic murderer. How could I forget this?
Twosret - “non of what I said changed through the years.” Exactly. I am a Zionist. I am a proud Zionist, in fact, more than happy to be able to reclaim and rebuild my homeland - and to defend myself from attacks. Guess I am evil, then.
The question was:
a) What will happen if right now all the Israelis become utter and complete pacifists - to the point that we will not do ANYTHING to defend ourself?
b) What will happen if Palestinians become utter and complete pacifists - to the point that they will not do ANYTHING to defend themselves? You can substitute Palestinians for Arabs if you want.
And be truthful, please… if you indeed answer.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:51 pm
Deathway - the real problem is that someone allowed children near a military position. I presume that the commander of that position will be punished - this is illegal, immoral and dangerous.
All the rest is an attempt to make an elephant from a fly.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:54 pm
Raccoon,
Go to hell. Your country is filled with baby-killers.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:54 pm
Wow! A few kids write on bombs to be used in the war against the fanatics who would eterminate them and all of their families, and some of the “enlightened” absolutely lose their minds.
I was shocked upon viewing these photos too. But my shock was at, in a time when the nation of thise children is at war for its and its people’s survival, how relatively benign these pictures are.
The photos are interesting though in that through their publication they have helped to pull the mask of numerous commentators, revealing the true bigotry and hatred lurking beneath
July 18th, 2006 at 2:56 pm
th cop is not shooting the psychotic murder, the cop is dropping a 500 lb of TNT on a residential area where the murder might be.
i just imagine if serial killers in US, some of them has more victims than many hamas militants, were pursued in the same way. I guess most the US cities will be in rubble as US air forces will have to open hell on wherever an informant thinks/guesses/tells the psychotic murderer might be.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:58 pm
Raccoon,
Noted!
Marvin,
Thank you for your intelligent and relevant comment.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:59 pm
Amgad,
If that mass murderer was leading an army of his ilk through residential areas and using that as his base of operations…yeah, innocents would likely get hurt and killed in the process.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:00 pm
@Marvin, that happens when you hide in between them.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:03 pm
Amgad - more disinformation and false presumptions. IAF is using pinpoint precision strikes against bloody-handed terrorists who are swarming in PA and intentionally using the civilian population as a meatshield. If Israel would do what you say it does, there would be no PA left. Moreover, a ground operation usually entails many more casualties because the terrorists get a kick out of boobytrapping the areas they are in (see the Jenin “massacre”).
But, wait… sorry. I am confusing you with facts.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:08 pm
Sorry! When I see Israeli teenagers strap on suicide bomb belts and detonate themselves or use children as human shields, then you can say that the Israelis are no different than Hamas. Until then, don’t be stupid. There is no moral equivalence that can seriously be drawn. I don’t approve of this, and hope the commander of the unit that allowed the kids near the rounds will be punished, but there is a world of difference between the Israelis and the Hamastinians.
Israelis say that the offensive could last for weeks:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060718/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_israel_189;_ylt=Aontkr4P7×5X3DCTDV8oUTgUvioA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl
Is the peace process in need of a paradigm shift:
http://www.israpundit.com/2006/?p=1044
July 18th, 2006 at 3:10 pm
“Twosret - “non of what I said changed through the years.” Exactly. I am a Zionist. I am a proud Zionist, in fact, more than happy to be able to reclaim and rebuild my homeland - and to defend myself from attacks. Guess I am evil, then.”
I’m against the concept of Zionism that justifies the killing of other nation based on a religious belief.
Let’s see after 50 something years of oppression, invasion, brutality, I expect that the Palestinians/Arabs will riot and take the land back a la mafia style the same way Zionists did.
To answer the second question check out reality and what the Israeli Occupation forces are doing to Palestinians. The attacks of Palestinians are a joke anyway, they have no army, no weapons nothing. Few radical suicide bombers brain washed to protect their country.
Hope that staisfy you as an answer and next time shoot the message not the messenger.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:14 pm
I really do not see the difference from the point of view of a maimed toddler if the shrapnel that destroyed his life came from a high tech US made laser guided missile or from an improvised explosive devise. I do not think that it makes a difference for a mother of a killed child if he was killed in an operation aiming to make the people in Haifa or in Gaza feel secure and potent.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:15 pm
Twosret - no, this is not an answer. Why is it so difficult for you to answer me? It is a simple hypothetical situation… and I would really appreciate a honest and direct answer. Please?
And “killing of other nations based on a religious belief” - yes, Hamas and Hizballah are evil, I couldn’t agree more.
A little reminder - Zionism is a secular movement. Israel is a secular state. Why is it so difficult to digest?
July 18th, 2006 at 3:18 pm
Amgad - so you’re saying intent doesn’t count? Most judges in the sane world would disagree with you.
And so do I.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:22 pm
On the topic of journalistic manipulation, there is a fantastic Billy Wilder movie from 1951 called “Ace in the Hole.” A man is trapped in a cave in New Mexico, and a hardboiled newspaper writer played by Kirk Douglas decides to cover the story. Only the writer needs more time for the story to really blow up and get him money and attention, so he convinces the rescuers to take a week to drill down to the man, rather than the 16 hours it would take to just shore up the cave walls. He also takes posed pictures, and makes up sympathetic lies about the trapped man’s family.
Is it cynical? Yes. But does it ring true? Absolutely. There are a lot of vultures out there, and they take advantage of children on all sides of the conflict. Disgusting.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:24 pm
Intent, does count. However, you will have serious trouble convincing any judge that 500 lb of TNT dropped from air intend to kill ONE and only one man.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:30 pm
Amgad - right. So, enlighten me… what do YOU think the intent is?
A little suggestion - read the IDF reports on operations (availiable online). But wait… am I again bringing about them nasty, nasty facts? Sorry.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:35 pm
How can there be a secular Jewish state? It is by definition of “Jewish.” To be Jewish is to be defined by a culture/ethnicity rather than by a religion (as opposed to being Christian or Muslim). So if I say I am Christian, it means that I hold to the basic set of beliefs that define the faith of Christianity. If one says he is Jewish, he can be atheist, Hasid, New Age, Orthodox or even Christian in belief.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:38 pm
Raccoony,
Israelis have a problem, their country is founded on injustice and Until you fix the core of the problem there will be no peace.
No peace without Justice. Lord! How more honest and fair would I be?
“Most judges in the sane world would disagree with you.”
Which Judges are you refering to? the Judges that rules against the Israelis and you don’t give a damn about them?
July 18th, 2006 at 3:38 pm
Deathway - you forgot Discordian
July 18th, 2006 at 3:41 pm
Raccoon,
:-0 I never claimed to be an expert! I’m just a lowly goy!
July 18th, 2006 at 3:44 pm
Twosret -
And still you evade my question. Why is it so difficult for you to answer? This is about the 5th time you’re doing so.
We have discussed justice before. Justice for all. And the fact that justice comes after peace.
I am having similar conversations on other blogs, and here’s a little answer I left to Osaid about various demands to refute baseless lies about Israel:
“Imagine if I would say that you, Osaid, are a pedophile. When you’d protest I’d demand proof, while spreading the word that you are a pedophile. It’s not something you can really disprove, is it? In the meanwhile I’ll convince people that you are indeed a pedophile, start a movement to have you tried, convince people that know you and have them testify their suspicions… and you, knowing that you are NOT a pedophile, will have tremendous difficulty disproving it - and your stuttering and indignation would be turned against you. Add to this a conspiracy theory against you that claims that anything you say in your defense is lie because you’re a pedophile and are trying to cover up for yourself…”
This is the position you, Twosret, and others with similar tendencies, are putting Israel in.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:44 pm
Do you mean that IOF are idiots and that they use 500 lb of TNT to kill one man and that the collateral damages are absolutely bad surprises for them. I have/will never come close to a gun but I can tell that 500 lb of TNT is enough to below a whole building with so many randomly hit people that only an idiot would say: sorry, I meant to hit only one man.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:46 pm
Deathway - lol
You are hereby cleansed of the sin of not being an expert by Eris Discordia Herself (with yours truly as her Prophit)
July 18th, 2006 at 3:46 pm
Amgad - you, too, are evading simple questions. Why?
July 18th, 2006 at 3:48 pm
Twosret says:
The attacks of Palestinians are a joke anyway,
Yeah. They are just a joke, Twosret. It is real funny when you are scraping up pieces of your friends or relatives dead bodies off the cement from a Palestinian suicide bomber/professional comedian. Tons of laughs. Rolling on the floor laughing maniacally like my name was eee kind of laughs.
News/views:
Speak of kids and missles, mother in Lebanon names her kid after long-range Hezbollah missle:
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2006/07/nasrallah-rallies-terror-leader-finds.html
July 18th, 2006 at 3:52 pm
Here’s a little story about the evil ways of the evil, evil “IOF”:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1150886035223&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
BTW, Amgad… just a notice. I know you don’t care, but if you’ll call the people who’re dying to defend me and mine “IOF” again I will ignore your subsequent posts.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:53 pm
yeah um… if that is a child’s handwriting somebody please call MENSA we have some geniuses there. from what i saw the kids did the drawings… and not very good ones. writing was prolly done by someone else.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:55 pm
Tommy,
Bravo!
“Tonight, on Live at the Improv, our newest comic, Hamasi, will strap explosives to his belt and dive into the audience!”
I just don’t think it will draw the crowds.
Twosret’s argument is the same nonsnsical tit-for-tat diatribe. “All we did is have on elittle suicide bomber, who only killed 3 people. And the Qassams hardly kill anyone. [Is there such thing as "a little bit dead?"] So why the massive assault? You should only kill as many terrorists as we killed of your civilians.” WTF?
July 18th, 2006 at 4:03 pm
Raccoon
I am sorry if I hurt your feelings, but the Zionist army operates and have bases in many places whose people are not Israeli. What can we call this?
July 18th, 2006 at 4:09 pm
I couldn’t even continue to read these comments, some of them are so maddening. The Israelis have to be more careful because a p.r. war is also being fought. The world is used to seeing Palestinian children behaving like terrorists in training, not Israelis. Israelis have the moral high ground and they need to be careful and hold on to it. Don’t try to explain the pictures. Just make sure they don’t happen again.
Twosret….When an Israeli strap one of their children to one of those missiles then you can scream what goes around comes around.
July 18th, 2006 at 4:10 pm
Amgad - we do what we have to do in order to survive. By “many places” I presume you mean the West Bank? Read the history on why they are there. Try to discover what they actually DO there.
The IDF is Israel Defense Force - and that is what they do. They defend Israel. And if this means maintaining a base in a territory which habitually produces terrorists and the people of which are indoctrinated to believe that suicide while killing Jews is the highest virtue… well, then that’s what we must do.
Although I personally believe that this is less effective than other options, this is the one the bigshots chose.
July 18th, 2006 at 4:11 pm
Is it just me, or do you see a possible family resemblance:
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7050/620/1600/germany.0.jpg
http://ilovetheworld.co.uk/images/goonies.jpg
(If you cannot view these pictures by clicking on the urls, copy and paste them to your address bar.)
News/views:
http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2006/07/disproportionat.php
G8 Wants UN to strengthen role in combatting terrorism. (Good luck given the fact that they cannot even come up with a working definition of terrorism and Kofi Annan pals around with the likes of Nasrallah.)
http://counterterrorismblog.org/2006/07/g8_wants_the_un_to_strengthen.php
July 18th, 2006 at 4:12 pm
There is soooo much that can be said about certain peoples response to this issue. What it reveals is that some people are unable to see fault in their own and that is true on both sides of the fence but today is a little unique.
July 18th, 2006 at 4:20 pm
typical left wing media ploy.
July 18th, 2006 at 4:21 pm
Yet another example of the MSM making up the news. Between fake polls with questions like “when did you stop beating your wife” or “since so and so is an idiot and did XY&Z, will you _____ or _____?” and photos that are staged such as this, no wonder they are being called the dinosaur media. Everyday they get close and closer to disappearing. Just too bad so many guliable people still read newspapers/watch TV and believe the sh!t they are being spoonfed.
July 18th, 2006 at 4:22 pm
“Yeah. They are just a joke, Twosret. It is real funny when you are scraping up pieces of your friends or relatives dead bodies off the cement from a Palestinian suicide bomber/professional comedian. Tons of laughs. Rolling on the floor laughing maniacally like my name was eee kind of laughs.”
look who is twisting my words and comming up with a radical post that I personally attacked before and was told to kick back and take it easy laughter is the relief when it comes to crisis.
Amazing how you are capable of taking words out of context. The Joke was in reference to the military power not to the death of innocents.
Karen,
Different ways of terrorism doesn’t mean it is not terrorism. The CONSTANT attacks of the IOF on innocent Palestinian children and murdering them is not any different than the side you claim terrorists.
July 18th, 2006 at 4:26 pm
Twosret - I have just been over this with Amgad.
And you are still not willing to answer me…
Pity.
July 18th, 2006 at 4:29 pm
Once the Americans are evacuated later today I think we will see the escalation. I fear what is to come for those living in the ME right now. Stay safe everyone.
July 18th, 2006 at 4:30 pm
Hold on Raccoony, Deathway what gebbrish are you trying to say here?!
“Twosret’s argument is the same nonsnsical tit-for-tat diatribe. “All we did is have on elittle suicide bomber, who only killed 3 people. And the Qassams hardly kill anyone. [Is there such thing as “a little bit dead?”] So why the massive assault? You should only kill as many terrorists as we killed of your civilians.” WTF?”
July 18th, 2006 at 4:31 pm
It’s too bad those shells have killed mostly innocents instead of Nasrallah. It’s also too bad that Arabs don’t seem to care as much when a fundie Muslim Arab loads up a group of Shia in his explosives-rigged van and detonates it.
July 18th, 2006 at 4:44 pm
Perhaps we all could use some mind-clearing, Dr. Seuss style:
http://www.k-state.edu/english/nelp/childlit/seuss/20610.html
July 18th, 2006 at 4:56 pm
This pictures are are disguisting, but not because what they show, but bacause what these kids are doing were encoureged by the photograph. Another proof, that the photography is the least credible medium…
But despite all above, this pictures are still disturbing.
July 18th, 2006 at 4:59 pm
Twosret
The IDF has been out of Gaza for about 1 year. They have been out of Lebanon for several. The terrorist with whom you sympathize had no reason to kidnap Israeli soldiers, period. If they had wanted to negotiate the release of their “innocent” prisoners in Israeli jails they could have. Hamas and Hezbollah are Jew haters who do not believe that Israel should exist. They are like you. You hold the same beliefs as them and you support them. The Jews are home and aren’t leaving. Any solution to the m.e. problem has to deal with that. Unfortunaley H. and H. can not accept that fact. So there won’t be peace. And as for terrorism, your fighters hide among civillians, store their missiles amongs civillians and attack Israeli civillian populations from civillian areas. They are to blame for their civillian deaths! They are
July 18th, 2006 at 5:06 pm
“The terrorist with whom you sympathize ”
Karen, show me one post where I sympathized with any terrorists…..stop your false statements and I will not continue to read your post.
July 18th, 2006 at 5:10 pm
“Hamas and Hezbollah are Jew haters who do not believe that Israel should exist. They are like you.”
You resort to lies in your anger and become hysterical, I have never asked once in any of my posts to the destruction of Israel. Hamas and HezboAllah has never been my piece of cake and I have never encouraged any violence.
Get yourself some blue pills and chill.
July 18th, 2006 at 5:12 pm
The terrorists that you encourage the IOF are the ones killing 200 Lebanese civilians to recover two of it’s soldiers. The terrorists that you belong to are the ones who are destroying the Lebanese and Palestinian infrastructure.
July 18th, 2006 at 5:14 pm
*sigh*
Twosret - you continue to ignore evidence, opinions and facts which do not fit with your firmly fixed worldview. Why?
July 18th, 2006 at 5:16 pm
http://freesyria.wordpress.com/2006/07/18/lebanon-deaths-devastate-canadian-lebanese-family/
July 18th, 2006 at 5:17 pm
It the same style of intimidating anyone who disagrees with the Zionist state and condemns its atrocities. He/she must be Jews hater and a terrorist sympathises. The Zionists can not go on in an argument without accusing the others of these two things.
July 18th, 2006 at 5:18 pm
Raccoony,
I answered your questions, you don’t like them tough luck live with it! your facts are not mine and your evidence are not either. As long as our historical stories are not matching, our two truths are different and our two evidence are completely opposite, there will be no middle ground.
Not that I expected that there is one anyway.
July 18th, 2006 at 5:20 pm
Exactly Amgad, it is catch 22. They roar to save their image and defend their country and when we do, we are the terrorists.
They can’t itimidate me though I have met so many and know enough not to fall into this trap.
July 18th, 2006 at 5:20 pm
These accusations are not false, but I am not going to go back and read over everything you have said previously to point it out to you. Keep posting though, because it is you who gets hysterical and says the most ridiculous things. I will bring them to your attention in the future.
And it is the IDF not IOF, if you want to be accurate. I also recall you demanding a one state solution and for the return of all the Palestinian refugees (and their descendents I presume) to Israel proper. THIS is calling for the destruction of Israel Twosret. The only difference between you and the Islamic radicals is that you are kind enough to allow the Jews to stay.
July 18th, 2006 at 5:26 pm
The Zionists are Jews, Amgad. You can say Jews. The two words mean the same thing.
July 18th, 2006 at 5:26 pm
Karen,
I’m waiting for your evidence that I support HizoAllah or Hamas. I’m awaiting for your evidence of me supporting the destruction of Israel. I never mentioned the return of the Palestinian refugees in any of my posts and presuming the descendents is your little addition for sure.
IOF Israel occupying forces is the new name of IDF You missed on that one.
July 18th, 2006 at 5:27 pm
Not all Jews are Zionists false statement again Karen.
July 18th, 2006 at 5:28 pm
“I am not going to go back and read over everything you have said previously to point it out to you”
So I would highly recommend you shut your big mouth up and not accuse people falsely.
Capito?!
July 18th, 2006 at 5:34 pm
First off: Uchuck, post #25 was well said, thank you.
Secondly: No one I know, and I’m sorry if this offends anyone in the business, has much respect for the MSM anymore. This is one reason why blogs have become popular. People want the truth, not agendas. Even our little “local-hometown” newspaper has printed bogus things and presented them as fact, grrrrrr.
And Third: I am AMAZED at how people are so easily manipulated by a picture. WAKE UP FOLKS, don’t immediately TRUST what you SEE in the MSM. For your own sakes, PLEASE READ this article. Your future sanity may depend upon it: “LYING WITH PIXELS-can you trust what you see with your own eyes?”
http://www.technologyreview.com/read_article.aspx?id=12115&ch=infotech
July 18th, 2006 at 5:36 pm
Sorry Twosret, but all Jews are Zionists. The nonpractising, self hating (like Chomsky), assimilated may not be, but they are not Jews and don’t count.
And it is IDF. IOF is the term used by the stupid. Are you now one of them?
And I’ll shut up when you do. Capice?
July 18th, 2006 at 5:43 pm
Karen and Twosret - please, chill… this is pointless.
Twosret, I am unhappy with your answer because it doesn’t answer my question. It’s a politician’s answer.
Karen - not all Zionists are Jews, and not all Jews are Zionists. Bob Dylan, for instance, was a Zionist. And the absolutely overwhelming majority of Jews are Zionists. Chomsky and his ilk are indeed Jews - they are Jewish kapos.
July 18th, 2006 at 5:55 pm
Bob Dylan also went back to Judaism. And yes I am well aware of Christian Zionists and thank God for them. Please, Chomsky is a Jew by birth and that is about all. He is a traitor as are other Jews like him.
July 18th, 2006 at 5:57 pm
I have been following these pictures around the blogosphere and how they have been put to [unfortunately] effective propaganda purposes against the IDF. After reading through the responses to SM’s post (most of which are one way or another tangential and irrelevant, I have to agree with Raccoon, “the real problem is that someone allowed children near a military position. I presume that the commander of that position will be punished - this is illegal, immoral and dangerous. All the rest is an attempt to make an elephant from a fly.”
Don’t blame the children; they are children.
Don’t blame the journalsts; they are simply doing their job whether distasteful or not. Sensationalism sells.
However, whoever was in charge of this cache of ammunition should be court martialled for stupidity.
Arnie from NYC
July 18th, 2006 at 6:09 pm
Twosret-
“Did the Zionist ideology die and we didn’t hear about it? ”
The point is that “Zionist” just seems to be a catch all term for anyone you seem to disagree with. You got problems with any specifics of ideology then BE specific. I read here to get a balanced view. All I hear from you is vitriol and insults and the essence of your arguments seem to be down to one singular explanation…..it’s all because of Zionism.
I admit I don’t know as much as I should about the “ideology” of Zionism as I should, but with a will to knowledge I can correct that. But so far as I can tell, even I’m a Zionist and I don’t even know what one is!.
I’d love nothing more than peace in the Middle East, but Israel has the right to defend itself and I don’t see any problems with it. At least the Israelis have the compassion to regret that innocents die. What do we see Palestinians and Lebanese doing when an Israeli dies?; They’re dancing in the streets and scrambling for body parts as souvenirs. Well I’m sorry but that’s f***ing warped.
I’m sorry too that civilians are dying in this, but from a military point of view and in the cold light of day, it happens. It’s not right, but it happens. Go look at what allied bomber command did to Dresden in WWII. The allies were criticised heavily for that, bit the Germans were willing to start a total war so we had to respond in turn. Britain was fighting for its survival, so while the massive loss of life was eminently regrettable, it ultimately allowed us the freedom to continue our way of life……In peace.
To be truthful, I think Israel has shown remarkable restraint. I’m not proud of the fact, but I wouldn’t be so forgiving. One day maybe, the idiots of the likes of Hamas and Hezbollah and their supporters MAY just get their s**t together enough to bloody well give over and then Lebanon and Palestine can get on with rebuilding and setting up viable and stable economies
Heaven forbid!…..I may just, in my lifetime, get the chance to take a holiday in the region and be able to relax and socialise with the native PEOPLES without worrying about getting my arse shot off or losing my kids to a f***ing idiot with a bomb strapped to his ego!.
July 18th, 2006 at 6:17 pm
Amgad -
I didn’t say anything about barbarians and I didn’t say anything about any particuliar group of people. I said something to YOU as an individual. And your response, as it is, reinforces my point about perceptions and mental habits. You leap to wild conclusions that cannot be sustained in fact, react from prejudices aimed at broad groups of people you clearly don’t understand, and from many of your postings in this thread, not only need to do far more research on the topics you pontificate on, but regurgitate verbatim large tracts of propaganda rather than informed, reasoned, pragmatic opinions that can have a constructive, or even reconciliatory impact on the world. You are effectively a parrot for your state-run medias, though that in of itself is not the principle cause. In the day of the internet ignorance is an active choice. And again, I avoided made no comments about barbarians or generalizations about groups of people because the disease of ignorance by choice, cognative dissonance, and outright intellectual laziness is endemic to all cultures and groups (including Israelis). That’s why I recommended the book to you. It is a brilliant commentary on people, language, government, and media - one that can enlighten no matter who you are.
I wish you the best, Israeli Guy
July 18th, 2006 at 6:29 pm
Twosret,
Upon rereading, my writing was less tha clear. My point is that I am repeatedly hearing the argument that Palestinian attacks are small, so Israeli response should be equally small. Terrorist kills 5 people, so Israelis only kill/capture 5 terrorists. That type of reasoning is flawed on so many levels. I agree that Palestinian military might is weak. So I would recommend that they give it up and try to be good Israelis (as the Southerners did after the US “Civil War”) or form a nation at peace with their neighbors (which the likes of Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al Aqsa “Marturs” Brigade and Hizbollah will never settle for).
July 18th, 2006 at 6:36 pm
Pick an asymetrical fight; get an asymetrical result.
July 18th, 2006 at 6:41 pm
The Israeli’s are starting to sound like the Arabs.
Message for you:
Fuck you both.
July 18th, 2006 at 6:53 pm
Well, we are cousins, after all, Vince. And it should be “a Plague on both your houses!”, you bumbling buffoon you
July 18th, 2006 at 7:06 pm
July 18th, 2006 at 7:06 pm
Dammit.
July 18th, 2006 at 7:53 pm
They took the pics because that is the closest they will get to moral equivalence with the Palestinean kids holding guns or being strapped with bombs, ya know?
I heard the terrorists are running out of their human shields and are NOT letting the locals leave so they can hide their cowardly selves behind innocent Lebonese. Too bad they were allowed to hide in Lebanon in the first place.
July 18th, 2006 at 7:55 pm
Fuck you both.
Can we fuck the French, too?
News:
Ha! Ha! Ha! Yeah!
The Jordanian fuck blamed for killing our two troops in Iraq last month has been killed:
http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2006/07/killer_and_butc.php
Oh! And the New York Treason is having to make some job cuts:
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/007534.php
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/005562.htm
Cool.
July 18th, 2006 at 8:06 pm
I want the name of the PHOTOGRAPHER
July 18th, 2006 at 8:12 pm
Racoon can you provide a link to the IDF reports on operations please.
July 18th, 2006 at 8:22 pm
Thanks SM for digging this, but you know, it’s still not much of an excuse. Educated or otherwise, these kids are still under 10 years of age.
July 18th, 2006 at 8:23 pm
Anonymous Leb:
Check out http://www1.idf.il/DOVER/site/homepage.asp?clr=1&sl=EN&id=-8888&force=1
It’s the official IDF site, they have fairly detailed updates
Mind you that while they do have operation summaries, these are incomplete and detailed analysis will come only later (it is usually classified for a fairly long time, but any problematic operations are usually disclosed fairly soon).
Here’s hoping that Lebanon and Israel will emerge from this ordeal stronger and more prosperous… and that both our states can finally have some much-deserved peace.
July 18th, 2006 at 8:24 pm
http://www.sandmonkey.org/2006/07/18/in-compliance/
click this link and you will know the name of the PHOTOGRAPHER
July 18th, 2006 at 8:48 pm
OK, I don’t get it. Why is it so bad to put messages on bombs aimed at terrorists who would happily exterminate them? Because they’re kids? OK, yes, I hate to see children involved in this, but they ARE under siege. And my God, the bombs are for Hizbollah terrorists, not for innocents. And one picture represents “Zionism?” Come on, some of y’all are seeing what you WANT to see. I’m sure this cements the theory that the Joooz eat palestinian babies, too, right?
Whatever.
Reverse the situation. Do you think there would be ANY anti-Israeli people complaining about palestinian/Syrian/Iranian–even Lebanese–children doing the exact same thing, especially considering so many are indoctrinated with “annihilate the Joooz” dogma from birth? The fact that some of Israel’s supporters and some Israelis find this upsetting shows their tolerant nature. A sharp contrast, don’tcha think?
July 18th, 2006 at 8:55 pm
Beth, the problem is that most of those killed have been innocents, not terrorists.
But you’re right about Muslim kids being indoctrinated with crap about Jews, and the Arab street doesn’t say much when Israeli innocents are murdered.
July 18th, 2006 at 8:59 pm
Beth,
Reverse the situation. Do you think there would be ANY anti-Israeli people complaining about palestinian/Syrian/Iranian–even Lebanese–children doing the exact same thing, especially considering so many are indoctrinated with “annihilate the Joooz” dogma from birth?
Of course there would be no complaints. But then we do hold Israelis to a higher standard than the dumbass terrorists and their sympathizers. I agree that this is way overblown and is in no way comparative to recruiting teenagers for suicide bombings or using kids for human shields.
My greater concern is with the military personnel on scene. It is irresponsible to allow children anywhere near munitions, doubly so when a conflict is ongoing, no matter how safe it may be (and I know it isn’t really that dangerous, but still it just seems like bad policy….).
News:
A someone who was in Lebanon disputes the media’s coverage of the ongoing bombing:
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2006/07/the_lebanon_the.html
July 18th, 2006 at 9:12 pm
Can we fuck the French, too?
so Tommy i can see your natural temper doesn’t forget his classics !
July 18th, 2006 at 9:13 pm
All of the wire services seem to have decided that its a better investment strategy to hire officially approved propagandists in places like Palestine (or even Iraq, back when Saddam ruled) than it is to risk the life and freedom of a reporter who’d anger the terrorists/thugs by reporting honestly.
AP is awful in Palestine, but Reuters and AFP are worse.
You know, if you put together a dossier of every time Associated Press let one of those propagandist agents they hired fake or misreport the news, you’d have a list of thousands or tens of thousands of articles.
I think it’s time to set up exactly that sort of repositories of faked news and start a movement to boycott every wire service that’s too cowardly to report the news straight.
Bloggers are more reliable sources of news in the middle east than these cowards are, these days!
July 18th, 2006 at 9:17 pm
I think we should set up a faked news WIKI. That way its easy for anyone who notices a faked story to add it.
July 18th, 2006 at 9:21 pm
Roba, who said anything about excuses?
July 18th, 2006 at 9:26 pm
I think as adults we lost our innocence a long time ago. Reality and maturity strip us of our childhood perception that the world is the playground of our formative years. I truly believe that it is the duty of all parents to endeavour to maintain that precious innocence for as long as we can……Let them dream……It’s the least we can do for them.
If I may, I couldn’t put it any better than the words of one Lebanese gentleman , Kahlil Gibran……His words here have been my sole inspiration in my duty as a father…..
http://www.columbia.edu/~gm84/gibran4.html
July 18th, 2006 at 9:37 pm
I know you’re not SM.
It’s a sad case..
All I can say is this:
http://www.360east.com/?p=488
July 18th, 2006 at 9:49 pm
> And my God, the bombs are for Hizbollah terrorists, not for innocents.
The bombs are to secure the rule of a gangster state - the notorious
nation of beggars, thieves and murderers, that live at the expense
of pal. arabs.
More than 90% of those who were killed in Lebanon had nothing to
do with the Hisbollah. Its simply another massacre to secure the
realm of jewish fascism in Israel.
To be removed from time and space.
July 18th, 2006 at 10:18 pm
More than 90% of those who were killed in Lebanon had nothing to
do with the Hisbollah.
You’ve been as fooled as Sandmonkey was by his story.
Hezbollah isn’t reporting fighters killed, and, as far as I can tell, the Lebanese media isn’t reporting on Hezbollah’s fighters. But they are being killed.
As of the day before yesterday, the Israeli forces claimed that they’d destroyed about one quarter of Hezbollah’s fighting capability.
Obviously, Hezbollah is losing lots of fighters.
July 18th, 2006 at 10:27 pm
[...] Additionally, Rantings of a Sandmonkey has a piece on an appalling piece of staged journalism which appears to have been specifically aimed at making the Israelis appear in a rather bad light. [...]
July 18th, 2006 at 10:46 pm
> the Israeli forces claimed
I don’t buy statements from hebrew butchers - I’m not an idiot.
That’s the difference.
July 18th, 2006 at 10:51 pm
Regardless of his explanation, SandMonkey accomplished what he set out to accomplish: to demonize Jews and Israelis. These pics are going around the world and his site is getting hundreds of more hits in a seemingly likely attempt to retain his high ranking on technorati. So much for being an alleged moderate Egyptian; he’s just a shill.
July 18th, 2006 at 10:54 pm
So moderate Egyptians can’t criticize Israelis?
July 18th, 2006 at 10:59 pm
I just bought http://fakednews.net
It will probably take a couple of days to set up a wiki.
As I said above the purpose of the wiki is:
All of the wire services seem to have decided that its a better investment strategy to hire officially (or unofficially) approved propagandists in places like Palestine (or even Iraq, back when Saddam ruled) than it is to risk the life and freedom of a reporter who’d anger the terrorists/thugs by reporting honestly.
AP is awful in Palestine, but Reuters and AFP are worse.
You know, if you put together a dossier of every time Associated Press let one of those propagandist agents they hired fake or misreport the news, you’d have a list of thousands or tens of thousands of articles.
I think it’s time to set up exactly that sort of repositories of faked news and start a movement to boycott every wire service that’s too cowardly to report the news straight.
Bloggers are more reliable sources of news in the middle east than these cowards are, these days!
July 18th, 2006 at 11:06 pm
Yesssss! Way to go, Josh - long live the People’s News!
July 18th, 2006 at 11:10 pm
There are lots of badly biased we sites that try to pressure the media. I have no idea whether this wiki will turn out to be useful, but I’d like to have a wiki devoted to documenting faked stories passed off as news. It’s my impression that in places where there is no freedom of the press, the wire services have decided that it’s cheaper to cooperate by hiring propagandists than it is to risk the lives of honest reporters.
Rather than arguing over what makes bias, it should be just as useful and much easier to document complete fakes or are based on false facts like the story that started this thread. After all it’s easier to disprove a statement of fact than it is to prove (or agree on) what constitutes bias.
Guaranteed access and low risk seem to be better investments than good reporting. And after all, all it takes to cooperate with the local yellow press is to hire locally and not vet your hires too carefully.
Email me if you’re interested. There should be a publicly accessible wiki at fakednews.net within a couple of days.
Joshua Scholar
July 18th, 2006 at 11:24 pm
Sigh, I just got a paragraph out of order. Sigh, if I’m going to be criticizing professional writers I better put some effort into writing better.
In order this time:
There are lots of badly biased we sites that try to pressure the media. I have no idea whether this wiki will turn out to be useful, but I’d like to have a wiki devoted to documenting faked stories passed off as news. It’s my impression that in places where there is no freedom of the press, the wire services have decided that it’s cheaper to cooperate by hiring propagandists than it is to risk the lives of honest reporters.
Guaranteed access and low risk seem to be better investments than good reporting. And after all, all it takes to cooperate with the local yellow press is to hire locally and not vet your hires too carefully.
Rather than arguing over what makes bias, it should be just as useful and much easier to document complete fakes or are based on false facts like the story that started this thread. After all it’s easier to disprove a statement of fact than it is to prove (or agree on) what constitutes bias.
Email me if you’re interested. There should be a publicly accessible wiki at http://fakednews.net within a couple of days.
New email account Wiki@Fakednews.net
July 18th, 2006 at 11:28 pm
Of course it occurs to me, an email address at a new domain won’t work until the domain name propagates (wait a day).
July 18th, 2006 at 11:42 pm
You guys dont have much faith.
July 18th, 2006 at 11:55 pm
I’m not surprised that reporters sent up these children for the photos as it has been documented as happening before.
Australian (I’ve so very ashamed) reporter Gina Wilkinson talked Iraqi children into climbing over unexploded ordinance to highten her article on the dangers of unexploded ordinance to children.
Some of the lowlights recorded of this event:
But why were those children standing on the missile launcher? So Gina could film them. Here’s what the camera tapes reveal.
- You want to show the children on there?
Gina Wilkinson: Yeah, that would be good. Yeah, if they don’t mind.
- (trans) You want them to stand over there to be filmed?
- (trans) Come on sweetie. What’s her name?
- Noona
- (trans) I’m worried about them.
- Sit. Sit on this.
- (trans) I’m worried about them.
- (trans) Sit on the edge.
Gina Wilkinson: Please God, don’t let this thing explode now.
http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s956058.htm
Watch the video if you can stomach it just to see what the media will do to put a point across. http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/video/290903_s2c4.ram
July 19th, 2006 at 12:00 am
Possible good news or a back door message to Hezbollah:
One week after the humiliation it suffered in a Hezbollah cross-border raid in which eight soldiers were killed and two captured, Israel senses one of its major military and political victories is within reach.
The stunning campaign it has waged against Hezbollah has reportedly brought the militia to a point where it is willing to discuss Israel’s major demand - that it pull back several kilometres from the Israeli border, perhaps to the Litani River.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,19838470-601,00.html
I’m praying madly that this is right so the deaths on both sides can stop.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:05 am
[...] Your faked news story inspired me to buy a domain and install wiki software. [...]
July 19th, 2006 at 12:11 am
> So moderate Egyptians can’t criticize Israelis?
Criticism of jewish fascism is verboten in the western
media.
And jewish fascists have no experience being targets of
serious criticism - as if it would make sense to “debate”
with jewish fascists.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:23 am
Raccoony,
I did chill here http://www.toniguy.com/home/index.html
but why did you not enforce my reply to Karen instead of ignoring her false accusations?
July 19th, 2006 at 12:28 am
I thought you said you chilled?
July 19th, 2006 at 12:30 am
Just say sorry for turning this into a personal attack and accusing me falsely for being a terrorist and you will be forgiven.
Go and sin no more my child
July 19th, 2006 at 12:34 am
A hairdresser? Is that your notion of chilling out? Damn, sis, that explains things
I ignored her accusations because:
I don’t feel like fisking through thousands of pages of replies and;
I am still unhappy with you because you evade my simple question and;
When you’re excited or angry or just having a bad day you often come close to being what Karen accused you of being and;
I am not very pleased with being called a terrorist or having the people dying to protect me falsely accused of being terrorists and called names and;
I didn’t feel like getting in the middle of an insult-shouting match.
Does this make me evil?
July 19th, 2006 at 12:37 am
I’m chilled. I went swimming. Can’t give you a complete apology. There are things you write that irk me. I am sorry for embellishing and saying you think like the terrorists
July 19th, 2006 at 12:37 am
By the cute butt of Discordia, you two are still at it? Unbelievable! Ok, how about this - hold all this rage and negativity for one year… and then meet in Tel Aviv at the annual Water War next summer, equipped with really HUGE water guns. How does that sound?
Or you could wait a year for the next annual pillow fight… but it’s a different group organizing it and I am not sure how good they are. But it’s also a year from now and also in Tel Aviv.
How does that sound?
July 19th, 2006 at 12:48 am
Israel can’t be too aggresive in their incursion into Palestian country as it appears Hamas and Fatah have started attacking one another again:
Gunmen have stormed the home of a senior Palestinian security officer in Gaza, officials say.
Nabil Tammous, a member of a security force loyal to President Mahmoud Abbas, was not there at the time.
The attackers forced their way into the house, blew it up and also seized three bodyguards, security sources said.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5192330.stm
July 19th, 2006 at 12:56 am
Raccoon, I think we are done now.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:57 am
Karen,
Thank you that was nice. I’m sure despite our differences if this discussion is in person it won’t be as bad.
Raccoony,
“A hairdresser? Is that your notion of chilling out? Damn, sis, that explains things”
The fact that a Raccoon like you have natural fur that doesn’t need grooming doesn’t mean that my natural curls doesn’t need attention. I think water did it for Karen and I.
“Does this make me evil?”
of course you are the father of evil, look at you taking sides and adding fuel to fire when we are making up.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:03 am
How many times do we hear that we should not paint all muslims with the same brush? That we should not rush to judge a whole people based on the actions of a few. Now, Israel is being judged on the actions of one family. What hypocracy. This is complete BS. Now, compare that to thousands of muslims marching, chanting death to the Jews, death to Israel, shooting their Ak-47’s in the air, handing out sweets in celebration of death and murder. It’s pretty clear who has the moral high ground in this conflict.
You can’t look at one example of hideous behavior and accuse all of Israel to be unjust. Israel is not perfect. Israel makes mistakes and there are many on the Israeli side that don’t have the same moral compass that the majority of Israelis posses. Most of Israel does not subcribe to this behavior. Most Israelis conduct themselves with honor, digity, respect for themselves and others, and most long for peace; however, in Muslim countries, hatred is widespread and encouraged. Again, it’s clear who has the moral high ground in this conflict.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:03 am
*snigger*
*hugs Karen & Twosret*
Yei!
Now if I could only get you to answer that question, Two…
July 19th, 2006 at 1:08 am
hug back
July 19th, 2006 at 1:25 am
I will answer the question again and I will think harder so I can get you off my back
gotta go and do some duties first:) now karen if that hug was for me then you confirm Abla Fakeeha’s analysis of me “Lesbian, skinny, and dykish”.
Wallahi there is a good God up there I’m sure even if it is Eris that will reward me for my tolerance to insults on this board
July 19th, 2006 at 2:21 am
Muslims always claim that their Allah is great and proclaim it by shouting:”Allah hu-akbar”. Really? humm….
Well, their Allah only exists in imagination.
Oh, and the devil lives up their noses. Ha ha ha, what a false religion islam is.
Hurry Muslims blow yourselves up to get your 72 virgins!
July 19th, 2006 at 3:02 am
NO worries infidel you’re all soon to find out.
(بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم)
وَقَالُوا إِنْ هِيَ إِلاَّ حَيَاتُنَا الدُّنْيَا وَمَا نَحْنُ بِمَبْعُوثِينَ (29) وَلَوْ تَرَى إِذْ وُقِفُوا عَلَى رَبِّهِمْ قَالَ أَلَيْسَ هَذَا بِالْحَقِّ قَالُوا بَلَى وَرَبِّنَا قَالَ فَذُوقُوا الْعَذَابَ بِمَا كُنتُمْ تَكْفُرُونَ (30)
(In the name of Allah, the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful)
29. And they say, “There is none but our worldly life, and we will not be resurrected.” 30. If you could but see when they will be made to stand before their Lord. He will say, “Is this not the truth?” They will say, “Yes, by our Lord.” He will [then] say, “So taste the punishment because you used to disbelieve.”
Quran 6 29-30
and BTW Allahu Akbar!
July 19th, 2006 at 3:11 am
LOL, this is pathetic. They’re gonna try to excuse this by saying that these kids are low class and not educated? What exactly do they mean by uneducated? Do they mean that they’re not currently in school? So what do Israelies always get so stirred up about with regards to Arab children? I can gurantee you the Arab kids who yell “death to Israel” are in no financial situation that is better than these kids, and those Arab kids in a lot of cases are really uneducated in the sense that they don’t even go to school. So why don’t Israelies and their lovers excuse them? huh?
Ok, what about this:
“Cohen points out that the authors of these children’s books effectively instill hatred toward Arabs by means of stripping them of their human nature and classifying them in another category. In a sampling of 86 books, Cohen counted the following descriptions used to dehumanize Arabs: Murderer was used 21 times; snake, 6 times; dirty, 9 times; vicious animal, 17 times; bloodthirsty, 21 times; warmonger, 17 times; killer, 13 times; believer in myths, 9 times; and a camel’s hump, 2 times. “
http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0999/9909019.html
July 19th, 2006 at 3:15 am
[...] The Fucked-up Pictures explained [...]
July 19th, 2006 at 3:23 am
AP And Foreign Press Do Their Part To Create Anti-Israeli Sentiment: ‘When A Picture Isn’t Worth A Thousand Words’
Israel continues to face not only the Islamic terrorists and terrorist states like Iran and Syria, but also an anti-Israel international community and an anti-Israel media that never ceases to criticize Israel while scoring propaganda points for the te…
July 19th, 2006 at 3:24 am
I think those who always talk about the 72 virigins are really sick, because, a muslim reward if he did good in his live are divided into two catogories.
1- being saved from hell fire, which is something far beyond human imaginnation “it’s said that the happiest human ever created if droped for an instant in hell and then asked have you ever seen any any moment of happiness he will answer, that he never seen any. and the most miserable man ever created will be dropped for an instant in Heaven, then asked have you ever seen any misery, and he will answer i’ve never encountered any.
2-next the second part of a muslim reward is Jannah, or you might call it heaven, now there are books authored to sum the blessings in jannah, things like the floors are made of Gems infinite green fields, palaces of gold, eternty of health and youth, loving wives who are sincere to their husbands, i’m tell you books that just tell about what’s mentioned about jannah in only quran and hadeeth.
NOW, some of the sick people who can only think of sex and nothing else, for them what’s a muslim promised for his entire life of doing good deeds is 72 virgins.
BTW one of the blessings of jannah is that the good guys get to meet all those who mocked at them (ofcourse they will be in hell by then wishing to die but the won’t) and they will ask them do you beleive us now??
and they will scream YES YES WE DO….
so mock us as much as you want, hate and kill muslims, do whatever you can.
you can only harm us in this life. and go live as life as you as you can to.
because in a 50 years from now, my guess is non of those reading these lines will still be on this earth, it will all be over, and there will only be eternal Hell fire or eternal Jannah.
PEACE!
July 19th, 2006 at 3:27 am
Hamze N. Thanks for the insight!!
July 19th, 2006 at 4:07 am
Hamze - LOL
This is the biggest hoard of utter and absolute bullshit I have seen lately - and I have seen a LOT.
Oh well. The ancient anti-semitic propaganda machine keeps creaking. Luckily, we have nukes now.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:08 am
As for Richard Cohen, David Horowitz offers an excellent rebuttal:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/blog/index.asp
The American Thinker asks if Richard Cohen should be fired. I’d say no, but they disagree and they do have a point about double standards:
http://americanthinker.com/comments.php?comments_id=5600
News/Views:
Israeli ground troops reportedly enter Lebanon:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060719/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_israel
Good news, Sharqawi is being released:
http://www.bigpharaoh.com/2006/07/18/sharqawi-to-be-released/
July 19th, 2006 at 4:16 am
I am growing tired of this game. Maybe we should all break out the nukes and the Ebola… this is where this whole shit is heading, anyway. This is where it has been heading for thousands of years, with the pace increasing geometrically in the past few centuries.
Blah blah blah, hate hate hate, lies lies lies. You humans get instant communication, tools that have the capabiity of making your species as one… and lo! It’s, of course, being used for the same degenerate ape purposes.
Die, humans. Die.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:56 am
Thanks Ahmed for confiming that Martyrdom rewards are a fiction only in the imagination of Muslims like Allah exists only in their imagination.
Muslims start conflict and then beg, they only know to cry and as for handout from the west. They’re involved in almost every conflict around the world.
July 19th, 2006 at 6:34 am
The “faked news” site is a great idea. We all can agree that not only is it done, and for reasons of political agenda, but it is a betrayal of the public the press so haughtily claims to serve.
It will be interesting to see what kind of guidelines are set. Because I think more harm is done when an article is not fake, but the facts are picked over, and facts not supporting the agenda of the news organization are ignored. It is harmful when pieces are framed in distorted ways.
Most of us are probably here because we gave up on the MSM. But so many people don’t recognize the framing and the omissions, and are thus propagandized. Not everyone has the time, facilities, ability, and desire to chase down information online until they find enough information to judge reasonably.
July 19th, 2006 at 7:15 am
looooool, what a lame explanation.
Get some stupid minds to believe this:D
July 19th, 2006 at 7:18 am
ahmad
they will be in hell by then wishing to die but they won’t
they will scream YES YES WE DO …
PEACE! Did you really mean “peace” ? Doesn’t sound like it.
So your lil’ ‘ol god is not into mercy and the like ?
the floors are made of Gems infinite green fields, palaces of gold
Heavy on the consumer durables though.
Sounds as though your god is a simple reflection of your own greed and your desire to inflict pain on your enemies.
I have to agree with The Raccoon … the many like you Ahmad, will ensure a bleak future for the ME
July 19th, 2006 at 7:20 am
I havn’t read all the comments but I have to say that I had a feeling that something isn’t right with those pictures when I saw the 1st post. Is it just me who noticed that these kids wrote in ENGLISH and not Hebrew?
These kids are what, 8-10 years old? They start teaching English in schools just around that age (10).
Lisa’s explination that came afterward makes a little bit sens about the reason.
July 19th, 2006 at 7:25 am
Along with Allah SWT Mercy there is His justice.
It’s foolish to think Peace is for the good and the bad in the same time.
His mercy tells us if you repent then you go to heaven.
His justice tells us that each will get a reward or punishment for his deeds.
PEACE!
BTW what greed u’re talking about, there is no money in heaven, it’s just Gold because of it’s beauty, if you want anything in Heaven u just wish for it
July 19th, 2006 at 7:26 am
Jadetoad, you can what guidlines I’m suggesting by visiting my blog (click my name).
By the way, Lisa above has posted a correction. This is getting murkier. This particular story maybe misleading, but not really a media setup.
July 19th, 2006 at 7:28 am
infidel,
the more you mock me , the more i receive rewards from Allah SWT
July 19th, 2006 at 7:33 am
ahmad
I see you have a private deal
July 19th, 2006 at 7:34 am
jodetoad and Josh Scholar
The “faked news” site is a great idea.
It will be interesting to see what kind of guidelines are set.
Well you said it.
For many people, David Horowitz, Michelle Malkin et al in the States are in the same bucket as the news benders on the other side.
Set the veracity
July 19th, 2006 at 7:35 am
and it should say …
Set the veracity limits to exclude AlJazeera on one hand and FoxNews on the other and there wouldn’t be a great deal left.
July 19th, 2006 at 7:40 am
Sean read my guidelines.
I’ve decided that open collaborative sites fail when they’re allowed to become partisan - and that objective facts are more convincing than arguement anyway.
So I’m proposing a database of articles that are shown to be factually flawed, and that the site should avoid subjective arguements.
That’s close the the approach that seems to have allowed wikipedia to stay head and shoulders above sinking cesspits of partisanship (pick your horror story).
July 19th, 2006 at 7:55 am
Josh
Ain’t nothing wrong with the pursuit of truth but …
Despite notions (and claims) of impartiality, most newshounds are ferociously partisan. Were they not, they would probably not venture into hellholes like Baghdad in search of their stuff.
Most eyewitnesses to military situations are by definition on one side or the other and appropriately partisan.
There is probably never any such thing as a news item which is “entirely right” or vice versa.
It is essential to read all and attempt to sift, analyse and decide roughly where the balance lies. If you ever let anybody else do that for you, you will be prey to their prejudice.
Look around this blog and see how 99% of the hot air that is vented, is nothing more than two rival versions of the same story.
Mostly people do not seek “the truth”, they seek that which reinforces their own belief.
But good luck with your enterprise - can’t go wrong with a good Danish product like PHP.
July 19th, 2006 at 8:23 am
All news is tilted. But there’s a difference between putting a spin on a story, and saying things that are just plain untrue. Al Jazeera reports things that are not true. So does the BBC. So does CNN. So does CBS. I haven’t caught FOX at it yet, but they may well do the same. There’s no excuse for running a story that can easliy be fact checked and found to be false. No excuse.
July 19th, 2006 at 8:34 am
Craig
That’s just because you are a FOX partisan !
You’re a programmer (like your mum) - go to your Information Theory book page four million and ten or wherever it deals with Shannon and nonuniform sampling. You’ll find that to create (let alone test) the requisite categories for ALJ BBC CNN CBS FOX and the number of “things” that are throughput will tend to infinity … viz it is quite impossible to do that.
All one can do, which you obviously do to your own satisfaction, is pick the one you like - which you have done.
Be sure though that you have not “tested” anything, just expressed what you like. Truth in that sense is NOT identifiable.
July 19th, 2006 at 8:49 am
I think the most usefull application of Information theory to News is in noting that a signal that’s totally predicable must have no information content.
The more you can predict what’s going to be said before hand, the less information is being transmitted.
July 19th, 2006 at 8:58 am
But since that (100% prediction) never happens that’s not an issue!
The issue is usually of the “extending the particular to the general” form as in the proverb “one swallow doesn’t make a summer”.
any of m=n I can test by sampling with size dependent precision (possible but useless).
none of m=n requires checking ALL values of m (ie all items in every news story every day/hour/min) clearly impossible.
The point was well made by the indefatigable Raccoon
#64 The Raccoon The paedophile argument (his logic is impeccable though his spelling is not)
July 19th, 2006 at 8:59 am
“Al Jazeera reports things that are not true. So does the BBC. So does CNN. So does CBS. I haven’t caught FOX at it yet”
Then your an idiot.
July 19th, 2006 at 9:02 am
Oh well there are more about children…
http://www.pmw.org.il/tv%20part1.html
http://www.pmw.org.il/tv%20part3.html
So who exactly teaches their children bad things ?
July 19th, 2006 at 10:00 am
I support “To Nazralla with Love” on arty shells. Rockets and bombs too.
If the Lebanese identify with Nazralla that is their problem. Perhaps that support has earned them what they are getting.
If the Islamic world identifies with Nazralla then they should get some Israeli love as well.
Funny that so many can’t figure out that it is Nazralla who invited the misery on Lebanon. Let him give back the two soldiers and Leave Lebanon South and North. Syria or Iran can provide him with a home. It is Nazralla who is using the Israelis to destroy Lebanon.
And yes I’m one of the despised Zionists. Deal with it.
July 19th, 2006 at 10:23 am
Josh
The problem of reporting bias has been looked at by many people. There is an interesting Israeli site at honestreportingDOTcom which seeks to overcome what it sees as anti-Israeli bias. Of course it becomes partisan in the process but still, is seeking to redress “bad” standards.
I think another important point is would you really want to eliminate partisan reporting ? I wouldn’t (if only folks would not treat it all as gospel) for the simple reason that the only detailed stuff comes from committed people. Attempts by originators to produce “unbiased” work usually result in bland and boring.
It’s often a useful safeguard to have people with different agendas reporting the same story. Hence the value of public service broadcasting - individual contributors grind their own axe irrespective of government policy and you’ll find many different opinions on the same channel. That is incidentally why the BBC is so frequently quoted - and hated.
The countries with “official” media outlets are usually consistent but reveal nothing of value.
Wikipedia ? Seems to me, since anybody can post anything, to have become a most unreliable source with rival propagandists leapfrogging each other.
July 19th, 2006 at 10:28 am
What is happening in Lebanon is an example of the Prime Directive:
Don’t Fuck with the Jews.
To avoid such problems in the future:
Don’t Fuck with the Jews.
You can hate them to your heart’s content. You can build a religion around such hatred. Just Don’t Fuck with the Jews.
Could be hazardous to your health and the health of your friends and neighbors.
My advice to my muslim friends: kill each other until you are sufficiently spiritually purified. No one will give a shit.
Don’t Fuck with the Jews.
Don’t get in a fist fight with a grizzly bear. Don’t antagonize rattle snakes.
Don’t Fuck with the Jews.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:06 pm
Sean - I am a Raccoon… the fact that I can make some sort of sense at all in a human language is an unprecedented achievement. You want me to spell correctly, too?
You’ll need some angelic moderators for that wiki, methinks…
M. Simon - LOL
As I have repeatedly stated, messing with the Jews is a good way to ensure being remembered for all eternity. Same thing with helping the Jews. Aman and Koresh are two excellent examples… and the former has a day dedicated to deriding him. We may forgive, we never forget.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:08 pm
No Lisa,
doesn’t make sense. It’s fucked up.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:19 pm
Raccoon
I find your grasp of multilingualhumanspeak without parallel.
I will send you the trailer for my new (extremely short) movie “Sean Shalor Does it in Hewbrew”.
I’m changing my agent.
July 19th, 2006 at 12:20 pm
… because he can’t even spell Hebrew.
Damn!
July 19th, 2006 at 1:00 pm
So, just to be clear, your saying they shouldn’t fuck with the Jews?
July 19th, 2006 at 1:03 pm
Naw, avoid the bear and put your money on the rattlesnake
July 19th, 2006 at 1:03 pm
Ok. If one accept the story of the Israeli children being coerced into this by the photographer/journalist, then surely you must accept to an extent that some of the children that appear on Palestinian channels - which act as propaganda to their cause - are also coerced into saying the things they say e.g. that they like death, its the greatest honour etc. If you can accept that Israeli children can do these things to please the photographer then surely you can accept that the palestinian children, who probably have a greater pressure on them to declare publicly this hatred for their neighbours also to some extent (I’m not tlking abotu suicide bombers here - that’s a whle different keetle of fish) bow under this pressure.
Whether its done by the Palestinians or the Israelis it is disgusting full stop and just goes to show that violence breeds hatred.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:11 pm
British Agent
Compare like with like.
Arab kids waving guns and such is visibly promoted and encouraged by the parents and generally applauded by their peers. You can argue about the ethic there, but it is not a minority activity and it fits squarely in the frame of acceptable public behaviour - in its native context.
The issue talked abouy here did not represent something with such a pedigree and is/was therefore viewed with suspicion. I don’t think that is a value judgement, it is a plausibility question.
July 19th, 2006 at 1:39 pm
And when Lisa wrote “shit shit shit” - was it because she was mortified that the photographer made innocent girls look like bloodthirsty when they weren’t? Or because here you had found evidence of bloodthirsty Israeli girls, and it turned out that yet again Israelis hold that darned moral high ground…?
July 19th, 2006 at 1:53 pm
I guess Lisa knows what her thoughts were. The evidence suggests that what appeared to be a valid characterisation, was possibly contrived for some particular effect; so that the picture was in a limited sense “faked”.
Morality ? That depends where you are standing and what your threshold is.
To claim the moral high ground over somebody else, you first need their agreement about what the “moral high ground” is; that does not usually happen.
Thus - comparisons become mere yahboo politics. If you’re in politics or newspapers that’s very important of course. Otherwise it’s b*ll*cks.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:35 pm
I know - she just seemed really pissed that the pic was faked. Just curious at the source of the upset
especially when SM was so happy to find “evidence” that Israeli kids also glorified violence in the same gun-toting way you see in all those Hamas/Islamic Jihad / Fatah etc etc etc pics - which turns out not to be true. BTW, I was quoting SM’s own previous post “Hey, Israel, losing the Moral Highground quickly , are we?”
I just thought it was a sort of ugly over-the-top response, to be (what seemed like) angry to find out that Israeli kids genuinely might not have been taught to harbor the same hatred Palestinian kids do, just when you finally lucked onto it… curses, foiled again!
Hope I’m wrong, of course.
July 19th, 2006 at 2:39 pm
So it was ok for children to write on the bombs directed to kill civilians in lebanon because there was no hateful outcry while they did it.
As if the act was not filled with hate as it is..
July 19th, 2006 at 2:55 pm
Michelle and Mainhoffen
Propaganda is used by all sides in war because they deem it necessary and each protagonist feels that the other may steal a march on him. It is not designed to reveal the unvarnished truth, but to deliver a message disguised as news. To react with either outrage or triumph merely shows where your sympathies lie.
War is always a disaster for lots of people though sometimes unavoidable. Turning items of the fallout into icons of hate and evil is to miss the big picture - and incidentally, to demonstrate to your chosen adversary, how easily you can be manipulated.
If you believe that you have a clear notion of what was “right” and “wrong” before this all started, why complicate and obscure the issue. Plenty more bad thingswill happen.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:03 pm
Don’t f*** with jews?………..Damn!…….’Cos there’s this gorgeous Israeli girl down at the local University hall of residence and…..um………yeah …ok……..Moving on……..
July 19th, 2006 at 3:05 pm
Courage Wishbone - there’s life after war and many better things. GO
July 19th, 2006 at 3:22 pm
Hehe…….My Dad works in security at one of the residences, looking after the students welfare, making sure they don’t get to boisterous and whatknot. Given that the students are a pretty wide representation of Middle Eastern and Asian nationalities and religions, they all seem to have a marvellous capacity for getting along together.
The only mission they seem to be on is having a good time while at the same time drinking the city centre dry. Even I find it hard to be cynical when I’m anywhere near that lot
.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:26 pm
Sounds like good news in a bad world Do your bit for international relations.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:35 pm
LOL Sean…..”Do my bit for international relations”
My lady friend would assuredly say “Is that what they call it these days?”.
July 19th, 2006 at 3:48 pm
No on reflection that might not be a smart move. I’m sure you’ll think of something.
July 19th, 2006 at 4:12 pm
LOL
As an international student Down Under, I mostly hung out with Egyptians, Colombians and a European mutt crew. Conclusion - we all smoke the same weed
July 19th, 2006 at 4:25 pm
LOL Raccoon
Ah Levity!……..There’s hope yet
July 19th, 2006 at 5:08 pm
Whats wrong with the Israeli girls sending somelove messages to Nasrallah. As a kid i would do the same in a similar situation. And i really wish that this love will find its target.
July 19th, 2006 at 5:27 pm
Amgad, I can’t believe your stupid comment about Jewish “settlers” stealing land from Arabs so they can be near their 3,000 year old religious sites — our religious sites were there before the Arabs settled there, so who stole land from whom?
Notice also, that the girls are merely writing on the bombs, not wearing them! And since the Arabs can’t bear to have Jews, who are indigneous to the Middle East by the way, (unless Mohammed was actually talking about the Jews of Poland in the Koran!) on a piece of land the size of New Jersey (one of the smaller US states), military service and the need to feel familar and safe with it will have to be necessary part of the lives of children in Israel.
Thanks for your concern.
July 19th, 2006 at 6:03 pm
Sean Shalor, it seems that you didn’t understand the context of what I said about partisanship.
My point was that partisanship destroys internet communities, not that it’s bad journalism.
SO my decision was that my wiki will avoid partisan and subjective subjects and focus on facts and only facts.
July 19th, 2006 at 6:57 pm
BTW, on evening news in Israel:
IDF artillerymen signing shells “With love to Nasrallah”
Oh, those evil, evil Zionists, wishing death and destruction upon the innocent Lebanese civilians! Prithee, t’is surely genocide?
And the reasonable, usual conclusion: mass demonstations of assorted Muslims and Lefties chanting “DEATH TO ISRAEL”, with favorable coverage from all networks.
July 19th, 2006 at 8:40 pm
> is surely genocide?
The lebanese should bomb you and your family in your car on
the road. And - of course I would strongly reject to see any ob-
sceneties written on these bombs - except for “with love from
Ter Hafra” of course.
July 19th, 2006 at 10:33 pm
But when families of September 11th in America wrote similar messages of hate - unprompted, mind you - on bombs being sent to Afghanistan, it was ok…? Am I reading these replies correctly?
And what is with “leftist” being used as a derogatory term? Oh no! Please, keep those hippies who only want love, peace, and unity away from me! They might steal my gun and turn it into a floral arrangement!!
If we can risk nuclear war, then we can risk disarming.
July 19th, 2006 at 10:34 pm
Sandmonkey, you’re my bloody HERO.
July 20th, 2006 at 4:04 am
a relatively minor point:
>a big problem is that the israeli tv does not show dead
lebanese.
In general, Israeli media avoids showing dead bodies - period. Lebanese, Israelis, or otherwise. It’s a different style…
July 20th, 2006 at 5:01 am
Thanks for telling the story behind the photo. I was shocked when I saw this shot this afternoon, but I am glad that this was just a press staging. No group should teach their children to hate another. Hate is just not something that should be taught.
Stories like this remind me of what I take for granted each day: Free speech.
July 20th, 2006 at 7:08 am
No Sale
These kids are savages, inculcated with savagry from savage parents. Those kids writing hate is just a concise image of what is the greater problem known as israel.
July 20th, 2006 at 7:39 am
Gromit
If you are/were correct, how do you feel about those vastly more numerous images of proud parents and small Arab kids doing the same stuff with guns and suicide bombers vests ?
July 20th, 2006 at 8:10 am
#213 Josh
> my wiki will avoid partisan and subjective subjects
> and focus on facts and only facts
Josh,
Facts, are not news.
News is ALWAYS partisan and subjective.
News is always about CHANGE.
The change affects people, and the EFFECT on the people IS their experience.
Their partisan report of their experience IS the news.
(For instance) Watching a subatomic particle decay, is an event invoving describable facts. It is not news since you cannot even conjecture any possible consequence that would affect you, the observer. If however that occurred during the detonation of a nuclear weapon, the case would clearly be different.
This is not a question of scale, it is a question of involvement.
> My point was that partisanship destroys internet communities.
I believe that the blogs (such as this) where there is much evidence of partisanship and hostile exchanges, demonstrate the opposite of your contention. There is an untypically large following here.
I think you are making a judgement that because things appear inharmonious, they risk destruction. Now there’s an interesting feeling that you harbour !
There is great pain in absorbing “the news” and in observing or participating in the strife - but that’s the price of the ticket - the cost of cognisance. No strife, no life.
July 20th, 2006 at 9:27 am
TO LISA - is THIS the group of 12 photographers??
http://foto.rompres.ro/public/watermark.php?imgid=912035
TSK TSK TSK!!! (spin spin spin) TSK TSK TSK!!!!
you relay the shameless words of Shelly Paz that “[s]he was quite shocked to learn how badly the photo had been misinterpreted and misrepresented” as if some positive spin on this situation could possibly exist!!!!
fyi, scribbling ‘messages of love’ with sharpie markers on artillery is not like using sidewalk chalk — this is not photos of kids creating art, its hatred in its rawest and ugliest form bubbling to the surface (as a proud mom is seen looking on and smiling in at least one background).
oh look, one of those “photographers” is “praying” to the same artillery autographed by the kids… how sweet.
http://foto.rompres.ro/public/watermark.php?imgid=911012
(in a state of numbness, the definition of the word ‘humane’ erased from his vocabluary)
Truth is always the best defense…. a photo is worth a thousand words… please try not to eat too many of those words just to cover up the truth.
July 20th, 2006 at 9:58 am
dvl
Why do you want to start yet another war of lurid photographs ? You must be aware that for every one of the atrocity pictures that appeal to you, showing your preferred enemy in a bad light … there are at least as many with the opposite slant !
If you genuinely deplore violence, give a lead. At the moment you just display the hostility that causes the stuff you are complaining about.
You are not a crusader for truth dvl - just another eager foot-soldier in a war you can’t live without.
July 20th, 2006 at 10:26 am
So what? I think the message to the terrorist is appropriate. Some people are just all too PC.
July 20th, 2006 at 10:37 am
PC has nothing to do with it.
Trying to restart the same old fight based on propaganda material doesn’t convince anybody of anything. Sure your friends applaud when you scream “Terrorist” at your designated enemy. So he screams “Terrorist” back.
Brillaint strategy !
The end of the conflict is now in sight.
July 20th, 2006 at 10:43 am
“Trying to restart the same old fight based on propaganda material doesn’t convince anybody of anything.”
Fully agreed. It did nothing to convince me of anything at any rate.
July 20th, 2006 at 11:30 am
[...] Source: Rantings of a Sandmonkey Participate! Leave your comment. [...]
July 20th, 2006 at 12:13 pm
@sean shalor
the pictures first posted as well as those linked in my comment are all from the exact same photo set taken by Sebastian Scheiner, an established photographer/photojournalist based in Haifa: http://www.saponews.com/contact.asp
your cleverly articulated comment attempting to condemn me personally for the existence of these photos is completely misguided and without merit. i write this comment from the comfort of a california home, sad for the loss of any civilian lives due to political issues regardless of race/religion/creed, and dismayed that my tax dollars fund any war or pay for the aftermath.
“this is not a question of scale, it is a question of involvement” — falsely labeling the photographs as “propaganda material” to detract from their imact and meaning is laughable. it is evident that you harbor some regret for either the actual content of the photos, or your regret is that Scheiner submitted them for worldwide circulation and publication via AP/AFP; whatever the reason, you cannot deny that seeing is believing - to tell us not to look at the photos does not mean that the photos (or the graphic scenes the capture) will simply cease to exist.
on an unrelated matter you once said “it is very important not to fuel the notion that if people make enough noise, they can deny others their rights”… you will not likely be able to make enough noise to deny the dischord emanating from these photographs, though surely it will not be from lack of trying.
July 20th, 2006 at 1:12 pm
dvl
“your cleverly articulated comment attempting to condemn me personally for the existence of these photos “
A bit of paranoia there I think.
First, you need to get yourself up to date with the various “developments” in that sad and silly story. Things are likely not quite as you believe them to be - often the case with “war” photos.
You extract my comment from a post to Josh Scholar dealing with an entirely different subject (a proposed news Wiki)
“this is not a question of scale, it is a question of involvement”
claiming that I am falsely labelling the photographs. You fabricated that connection.
You say …
“on an unrelated matter you once said “it is very important not to fuel the notion that if people make enough noise, they can deny others their rights”
I think you are quoting someone else.
Please clarify what you mean
July 20th, 2006 at 1:26 pm
hopefully clearing a tag
July 20th, 2006 at 2:52 pm
dvl–
Taking a picture out of context is a bad thing. Taking pictures that have nothing to do with the discussion at hand and completely fabricating a context for them is a dumb thing. You have done a dumb thing.
“TO LISA - is THIS the group of 12 photographers??
http://foto.rompres.ro/public/watermark.php?imgid=912035”
Nope. It is the crew of the Israeli artillery piece in the background, not photographers (a big hint on that one is that they are all in uniform and none of them have a camera). They are doing what a lot of soldiers do in a battle zone. They are praying. This photo was filed on July 18 2006.
“oh look, one of those “photographers” is “praying” to the same artillery autographed by the kids… how sweet.
http://foto.rompres.ro/public/watermark.php?imgid=911012”
Nope. For one thing, that’s not the same artillery shell marked up by the kids in the Scheiner photo. Those shells had green fuse caps and red marker bands. These shells have black fuse caps and yellow marker bands. For another thing, the soldier (not photographer) is not praying. He is setting the fuse of the artillery shell. This photo was filed on July 17 2006.
The only conclusions I can come to from the manner in which you presented these photos as evidence of Israeli evil are that you are either an idiot who cannot tell the difference between a reporter and a soldier or between one type of shell or another, or that you are engaging in a little free-lance propaganda of your very own, willfully misrepresenting the content of a photo to advance your position.
As you say, “Truth is always the best defense…. a photo is worth a thousand words…” Here’s the truth you neglected to include in your photo essay: the actual captions that went with them as posted on Rompres.
For Photo #1: “Israeli soldiers pray at an artillery position near Kiryat Shmona, northern Israel, next to the Lebanese border, Tuesday July 18, 2006. Israeli forces are trying to curtail Hezbollah’s ability to fire rockets into Israel, the army’s deputy chief of staff said Tuesday, adding that a ground invasion into Lebanon had not been ruled out.” (AP Photo/Sebastian Scheiner)
For Photo #2: “An Israeli gunner eyes a shell at a heavy artillery position near Kiryat Shmona, in northern Israel, next to the Lebanese border, Monday, July 17, 2006. Diplomatic efforts to end Israeli-Hezbollah fighting gained traction Monday, with Israeli officials saying the country would agree to halt fighting if its two captured soldiers were returned and Islamic guerrillas withdrew from the border.” (AP Photo/Sebastian Scheiner)
July 20th, 2006 at 3:04 pm
Uchuck the Tuchuck
Thanks for turning up those references.
Like you, I get exasperated by all that pseudo stuff … especially when there are ample supplies of the real bad !
Dvl is certainly dumb - let’s hope s/he’s not malicious
July 20th, 2006 at 4:32 pm
Everybody likes to think of themselves as the victim, but I’m pretty sure we all know that Israel’s state-sponsored brand of terrorism and everybody else with their inhumane desire to hurt or wipe out others (Hezbollah, Hamas, Al-Quada included in case you can’t tell) are to blame and should own up to their antiquated thinking that destroying the homes and lives of innocent people is somehow ok. We’ve come too far in a moral and technological sense to not have developed a better way.
July 20th, 2006 at 4:42 pm
The explanation doesn’t make much sense, either.
The same parents who kept their kids safely underground for five days decided to let them go out and play with the bombs?
July 20th, 2006 at 4:46 pm
Same old…same old. It really does not matter what the actual explanation of the photos are - the point is the way that they’re being used/exploited.
Its time for everyone on all sides to step back and dust off the old Bullshit Detectors.
As to Gromit: “These kids are savages…”
Even if the unfortunate girls in the pic were malevolent in intent, its not that different from the “Shut Up and Support Our Troops” idiocy that currently pervades the USA. Kids, being kids, are not generally known for critical thought.
Considering the immensity of events, Sean Shalor describes this story the best: “sad and silly”.
July 20th, 2006 at 5:41 pm
Intresting reading…
And intresting that Lisa said “the kids are low class, not educated”. Still they know how to write… uneducated for a small kid? :)) Other thing… they know how to write ENGLISH (some writings are in english) wow, that’s pretty uneducated… to know foreign language in writing…
July 20th, 2006 at 7:16 pm
If you look carefully at the pictures you will see that the girls is writing from right to left. Hebrew is written from right to left. It is likely that someone else wrote the English.
July 20th, 2006 at 8:16 pm
Here is part of my comment from the original thread.
The media is the friggin enemy. And while much of the AP and Reuters reporters actively ignore and report from Territories as if they’re part of Hamas or the PLO, take propped up phoney pictures (shown/proven regularly) they also now apprently gode Israeli kids into positions that fit this agenda as well. So like I said in my initial comment to Sam’s overreaction.
http://www.sandmonkey.org/2006/07/18/this-is-fucked-up/#comment-31318
Mike
July 20th, 2006 at 8:18 pm
I THINK THAT SAYS IT PRETTY CLEARLY.
Mike
July 20th, 2006 at 10:11 pm
[...] http://www.sandmonkey.org/2006/07/18/the-fucked-up-pictures-explained/ Lisa: okay got the whole story i have to write about it, but it will be very difficult it is not at all what it looks like not at all shit shit shit you wanna hear? [...]
July 20th, 2006 at 10:53 pm
i heard and saw a lot of crap in my life , I will add this story to it as well.
happy x mas.
July 21st, 2006 at 2:31 am
Hey - does anyone find it weird that the kids were writing messages *in english* and not Hebrew?????? This makes sense if the point is that the photos are staged and *meant* for consumption by the press. IF the kids meant it to be read by Hezbollah (theoretically, as the bomb would go off first) then it would be in *Arabic*. If it was a morale booster for the people in the bomb shelter it would be in *Hebrew*. Conclusion then: either 1) the kids are not Israeli, as they wrote the message in their native tongue, English 2) Someone else wrote the message for the kids and then posed them there for the photo (again, most Israelis speak hebrew natively, guys so why write it in English?)
The photo is fishy to me. It reminds me of all the signs the Palestinians hold up during their demonstrations - they are all in English, meaning that they aren’t meant for local consumption (Arabic or Hebrew) but are completely staged so that the journalists can get good copy and photos for their overseas stories.
Incidentally, it’s no big deal to write messages on ordnance before using it. I remember pictures of bombs with messages scrawled to Hitler or Tojo from WWII photos. Note that they were all in English - native tongue of the people writing them.
Michael
July 21st, 2006 at 4:19 am
Seriously, the kids love Lebanon & can’t wait to live in other people’s home in other’s people’s land.
They don’t care who got killed in the process.
It’s that easy.
Please don’t tell me that they’re sympathetic towards the Lebanese cause or the Lebanese children.
I wish they realize that many many years ago someone did the same thing to their grandparents.
July 21st, 2006 at 7:41 am
[...] The Fucked-up pictures explained Ok, in regards to those pictures again, this is what happened: [...]
July 22nd, 2006 at 10:53 am
[...] Browsing around some Wordpress.com pages last night I hit upon a page called African-American Political Pundit, which posted some photos of Israeli children writing messages on some ordnance. (For the full story see here and more especially here.) But the writer had coupled these photos with others showing dead children and others from the Lebanese side. [...]
July 22nd, 2006 at 1:15 pm
[...] Hintergrundinformationen gibt es hier, hier, hier und hier. [...]
July 22nd, 2006 at 1:51 pm
OK, correct me where I go wrong. These Israely kids werde holed up in their bombshelters for fivel days, because they were being bombed constantly. The bombing stops for a while, they come out and find an open air arsenal which is were Israelies normally store bombs in areas that are under heavy fire? Is that right?
It is not so much that Im being lied to that makes me raving mad, it is the fact that the lier thinks me so stupid he cant be bothered to invent a believable story.
July 22nd, 2006 at 8:23 pm
‘Hey - does anyone find it weird that the kids were writing messages *in english* and not Hebrew?????? This makes sense if the point is that the photos are staged and *meant* for consumption by the press. IF the kids meant it to be read by Hezbollah (theoretically, as the bomb would go off first) then it would be in *Arabic*. If it was a morale booster for the people in the bomb shelter it would be in *Hebrew*.’
Mmm …
S’pose that maybe they didn’t write it in Hebrew because they didn’t think Hezbollah members would understand it, and didn’t write in Arabic because they don’t speak it? English being an international ‘common denominator’ language?
July 22nd, 2006 at 11:15 pm
I think that it is important to understand that the Israelis are victims as well as the Lebanese. It is just that it is hard to imagine what really happens there. International TV is not showing what is really going on in Lebanon or in Israel, too. A part of my family lives in Israel, I have friends there who told me that over 80 missiles landed in one of the cities at ONE day. They really have to stay in bombshelters for days and what should they do? Nothing? Should Israel not protect itself? There are the Hezbollah bombing at this country, and they are bombing from Lebanon, and - yeah, well, what about Lebanon? Why are they asking for help against Israel and not against the Hezbollah?
Somehow I could even understand the girls’ reaction. As a kind of protest.
July 23rd, 2006 at 3:00 am
thanks for sharing the real story. These events are always made for news TV, so having photographers “egging” on the kids to do this only makes sense. However -they tell their editors - Look at what they are doing!
Vintage Press - sucks! But how damaging to the Israelis (although I am sure they stage the same stuff with the Lebanese and Palestinians).
Who pulls the strings? The press of course ):
http://www.what-a-world.com
July 23rd, 2006 at 3:28 pm
Ladies and gentlemen, it is that simple - hatred begets hatred. This is cyclic. This is two-way. This is what has to stop.
Yes, I am Israeli, if you were in doubt.
August 1st, 2006 at 12:42 am
This article is nonsense.
The AP photographer responsible for these pictures is Sebastian Scheiner who is Israeli himself.
September 3rd, 2006 at 7:18 pm
This is the most idiotic thing I ever heard of. WHO CARES WHAT THESE KIDS WRITE ON THE FREAKIN’ MISSLES? If you were in a warzone and your town was being attacked with hundreds of missles all planned by a leader of a terrorist group and you were a 10 year old kid and you happened to get near some missles you would write messages on them to the leader of the terrorist group raining missles on your town. AND YOU KNOW IT! All they are writing on the missles is “to nasralla with love”. Nasralla is a piece of shit and should be killed, so what’s wrong with writing that on the missles?
The lebanese govt. is at fault for letting the shitty HAZEVELA collect all their armaments and become an ARMY no more and no less. The people of Lebanon live under that govt. and they do nothing about it so they are at fault as well. If you live in a place and your streets are overrun with militants and you go about your business, you know that the shit is gonna hit the fan sooner or later.
Imagine this imaginary scenario. There is an armed drug-growing gang in Mexico, and they are unhappy that they are not allowed to freely bring drugs into Texas. So they collect arms for years and store them in buildings, houses, etc. all over mexico. The Mexican govt. doesn’t care and does nothing about it. The people of mexico don’t care and let this group just run around storing their arms in their houses, building, and some even help them do this since the drug group is really good to them, gives them money, candy, pays their bills.
One day, the drug gang feels pretty strong and they start operations in Texas, killing and kidnapping border guards and launch missles on towns in Texas. Duh, the U.S. govt. has to respond, so they fire back at what they think the positions of the launchers are. But the drug gang is smart–they keep moving positions and fire the missles remotely, so they keep firing as much as they can, and the U.S. is unable to stop the missles from falling down on Texas. Texas residents are forced to leave their towns. The U.S. keeps firing, hoping to kill as much of the drug group as possible. They even dump flyers on mexico warning residens what areas will be targeted next. Some Mexicans leave, some start claiming that the U.S. wants to take over mexico and refuse to leave. Meanwhile, as is bound to happen, some innocent mexicans are hit. The Mexican media to make the U.S. look bad even stage some killings and show the same kid, etc. over and over again in different pictures to show how many were killed. The drug gang sees what his happening but they absolutely refuse to stop firing missles because they want to show how strong they are and that they can last and last. They don’t care that Mexico is being destroyed. The mexican govt. is ineffective and some in the drug gang are in the govt. itself anyway, so they don’t do anything. They all blame the U.S. for killing innocents and the drug gang keeps saying that very few of their men are killed all for the image.
This is about what happened in Israel. These bastard terrorist keep firing missles on Israeli towns constantly and Israel does almost nothing about it. This is why the HAZEVELLA was able to gather so much armaments with the help of syria and iran. Israel destroyed the bridges and all pathways that could be used to re-arm the HAZEVELLA. (BTW. ZEVEL means garbage in hebrew
) That’s exactly what the HAZEVELLA is….
The U.S. is figthing a war in Iraq and there, you don’t have maybe 100 casualties, but hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have been killed and over 3000 american troops. The whole reason for the war is very questionable since there was no evidence of any direct threat from Iraq. It would have been OK to try to bomb the govt. structures, military installations, to get rid of saddam, but a ground invasion was insane as we can see. Arabs there kill other arabs daily. Arabs can’t even get along with one another. They passionately hate Israel. Arabs cheer whenever Israel is damaged by militant groups. Israel tries to protect its citizens. All Israel wants is to live in peace.
The so called “palestinians” were never allowed to integrate into the surrounding countries because the surrounding countries want to create pressure to get rid of israel. They don’t give a crap about the palestinians whatsoever. The palestinians have had territories for a long time and they have their own govt. and can build their town, but instead all the want is to reclaim all of Israel and keep supporting terrorists who believe that eventually they will drive all Israelis out or will get the right of return and overrun Israel.
Every person with a balanced mind and open eyes knows this is the truth. But of course Arabs will never admit it. (Except a select few). All these comments about how evil Israel is are all written by Arabs or Arab lovers. I don’t hear any complaints about how evil Arab countries are.
One of the arguments are that if Israel is a democratic country, then it shouldn’t behave in ways similar to the terrorists. But the U.S. is a democratic country, and is considered 100% legitimate and is fighting wars in countries which are not even at her borders with the idea that terrorism is dangerous no matter where it is, and I don’t hear the disgust and hatred that is directed against Israel which is fighting for its survival every day.
Nobody complains that the palestinians raise their kids to be martyrs and palestinian mothers are happy when their kids blow themselves up. The Arab muslims have a shitty religion and culture and it’s not surprising in consideration.
Those of you speaking against Israel are either clueless or just evil Arab lovers and YOU KNOW IT. SHUT YOUR IDIOTIC MOUTHS UP ONCE AND FOR ALL–NOBODY WANTS TO HEAR YOUR DRIVEL. GO LIVE IN SOME ARAB COUNTRY AND ENJOY THE FRIENDLY HUMAN-LOVING ATMOSPHERE.
Meanwhile I hope Israel assasinates Nasralla and that the missles have messages to him written on them. If a few Israeli children write some messages on missles, that’s no big deal–it’s actually funny. Nothing wrong with it. What is funny is that in this day and age you’ve got all these crazy Arabs trying to ruin the world. Now that is what’s really funny. WAKE UP AND SMELL THE ARABS. (The bad ones that is–kudos to the Arabs that know what’s right and what’s wrong and want to live in peace. What they need to do is speak out more loudly, and get rid of the nutty haters.)
November 16th, 2006 at 2:11 am
hellow people
November 16th, 2006 at 2:13 am
well you people are pritty boring soo that is lol i dont know hi again, what im i talking about? okie dokie then bye bye mates.
December 22nd, 2006 at 6:35 am
As usual, when caught in the act there is always some explaination. A picture is a thousand words. Israel concentrates on their “propaganda team” to put out fires that leaked through the cracks. You can not cover up the truth forever.
April 2nd, 2007 at 2:59 pm
what am i supposed to say to this but…wait for one day justice will be done
i see people talking about reclaiming their homland forever and so..i believe they think this piles of sweet killin weapons for terrorising and killin the natives will succeed for ever..this mithodes and lies shall work for ever
we shall see..as i said before…..
Wait for one day justice will be Done.
April 2nd, 2007 at 3:12 pm
there’s a psychological factor why peace shall never have a place in the promised stolen land. Despite all the propaganda manipulating the world by the zionists..despite their screaming around its our land..deep inside
THEY KNOW THEY ARE LYING..THEY KNOW its a stolen land..THEY KNOW their crimes..THEY KNOW they are mass murderers…THE PSYCHOLOGICAL FACTOR OF GUILT will always keep them in a distorted state of insecurity feelings..THEY SHALL ALWAYS be afraid expecting the punishment
April 2nd, 2007 at 3:15 pm
there’s a psychological factor why peace shall never have a place in the promised stolen land. Despite all the propaganda manipulating the world by the zionists..despite their screaming around its our land..deep inside THEY KNOW THEY ARE LYING..THEY KNOW its a stolen land..THEY KNOW their crimes..THEY KNOW they are mass murderers…THE PSYCHOLOGICAL FACTOR OF GUILT will always keep them in a distorted state of insecurity feelings..THEY SHALL ALWAYS be afraid expecting the punishment
You can not cover up the truth forever.
May 15th, 2008 at 10:17 pm
i mother fuckers you [eople r real ass holes and id like to say fuck you and the wriyer of this blog u suck monkey ballls so fuck u because you r a peace of wrotten shit bye bye mother fucks………
ps this sucks, bitch
ps anyone hwo goes on this is a fucking loser!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:45 pm
[...] I received a couple of comments from Kath, who is one of the friends I’ve never met, author of In Training. Kath is an American engaged to a British Royal Marine, so she knows what its like to be in a relationship in 2 different countries, as I am. We don’t share many of the same views on war or politics, but I read her blog and find it interesting what she has to say, occasionally finding some common ground! It’s always good to hear a viewpoint different from what you believe so I never take offence, and I’m pretty certain Kath doesn’t either. The comment that Kath made is as a follows: “I wonder if you’d heard the actual background of those photographs with children. Might want to check out this site to get the story: http://www.sandmonkey.org/2006/07/18/the-fucked-up-pictures-explained [...]