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Tuesday, 18 Jul 2006
Ok, in regards to those pictures again, this is what happened:
I sent the link to Lisa immedietly, asking for some sort of explanation on how this could've happened. Lisa, outraged, decided to find the Photographer and ask him herself what happend. After she got the story, she confirmed it again with another Journalist who was there. The following are her words, copied and pasted from a Gmail chat. Make your own conclusions:
Lisa: okay
got the whole story
i have to write about it, but it will be very difficult
it is not at all what it looks like
not at all
shit shit shit
you wanna hear?
Sent at
me: say
Lisa: okay
it's a long story
me: short
and sweet version
Lisa: kids were in
bomb shelters for days. city is a ghost town.only poor people stayed
a new army unit arrived, kids were bored, went out with
parents to lookthere were TWELVE photographers there
and they egged the kids on
the kids are low class, not educated, have never met a
Lebanese, just want to live their lives, don't understand why Lebanon
attacked their home, etc.the photographers told them "hey, your cousins in america
will see you!"mostly foreign photographers
so the kids, who were bored and restless and had been cooped
up in bomb shelters for 5 days, took the felt markers and drew messages to
nasrallahthere were no cries of hatred toward lebanese
and a big problem is that the israeli tv does not show dead
lebanese. it shows destroyed buildings, but not dead bodies. so no one has a
face of the dead in their minds. too aware of our own suffering, etc.make sense?
She will post on this later on today.
July 18th, 2006 at 12:58 pm
you and your friends, so the problem is the “low class, not educated” children
July 18th, 2006 at 1:00 pm
SM, you’re more sane than I am today. I think I’m going to shut up for a while.
July 18th, 2006 at 1:03 pm
This makes more sense. We don’t teach our children to hate.
The AP, AFP, and the vast majority of the world media just loves to get Israelis and Jews in pictures that are completely out of context, so as to forward their own lefty agenda. Seen this for more than a quarter century, been happening far longer than that from what I understand.
July 18th, 2006 at 1:05 pm
sorry as the denial continues i will have to past same comments on this thread as well
Having the Zionists under heat will soon reveal their ugly face that is not much different from that of Hamas. If you like to add more balanced posts i can send you a photo i found on the BBC of a 7 years old settler in Hebron holding and learning to fire an M16, then we can speak about the whole essence of incarcerating 120,000 natives in a maze of check points and security fences so that 400 settlers can enjoy being close to their religious sites on a stolen land.
I read an interview with one refusniks in Israel, the cousin of Benjamin Netanyahu, few days ago. Among other things he said that it is a habitual practice in Israel to take school children to visit military sites and have a close experience with tanks, arms and even fighter jets. Perhaps the Israelis start military training at a very early age. Building the brave fighter who will drop a 500 lb bomb on a residential area needs a lot of psychological training in his/her childhood I guess, otherwise the human part in him/her might wake up and makes the mission of burning children difficult.
July 18th, 2006 at 1:09 pm
“This makes more sense. We don’t teach our children to hate.”
Of course not. Israeli kids would never do this. There must be other explanations!
July 18th, 2006 at 1:10 pm
At the start of WW I, the British inflated stories of German atrocities to fire up the public in righteous indignation. Largely faked stories of German troops raping and pillaging their way across poor defenceless Belgium had crowds in the streets destroying shops with Germanic names, the British Royal family changed their name from Battenburg to Windsor and even the breed of German Shepherd dogs were renamed Alsatians after the hatred had been properly stoked by time and death.
How easy are people’s minds manipulated. You can’t blame the kids, the parents or the troops unless you see them all standing around laughing and pointing at the event. These things are often twisted to the most salesworthy and newsworthy story, by people whose families live in a part of the world where this will have no influence. People like Murdoch have a lot to answer for.
July 18th, 2006 at 1:12 pm
Amgad -
We are not “Zionists,” okay? We are human beings. And if you are judging an entire people based on what you see on a sensationalistic television news segment then you are guilty of the worst kind of intellectual laziness. And, I am sorry to say, but this time I just cannot hold back - you are really ignorant.
July 18th, 2006 at 1:14 pm
The explanation doesn’t surprise me. The media wants lurid headlines and shocking imagery to drive ratings. They don’t care how they get it and they don’t care if the decontextualize the truth to manufacture a reaction. In fact, its their modus operandi these days. Egging the kids on would be in character.
At the same time: I think “low class,” is a polemic designed to play to extant prejudices and diminish the potential harm done to Israel by the photos - and is somewhat bigoted as well. Children of all classes are easily led, love being the center of attention, and look up to adults. And by definition, all children are uneducated. It takes two decades (more for some people) to make a full grown human being capable of making responsible choices. Some people never get there.
Maybe the parents are low-class and uneducted, but there’s no way to be certain of that. After all, 2/3 rds of the population in the affected areas stayed put. It would be disingenious to classify 2/3 rds of the population of the north as being “low class,” even though doing so is an expedient way to dismiss the photos out of hand. Not to mention that some of these kids are writing in English. At that age most Israeli kids can’t do that, which would indicate Anglo parents (who tend to be better educated and more affluent than the national average).
The problem is the photographers lack of ethics and the parents lack of sense, but then, wisdom is seldom conventional and sense is far from common.
July 18th, 2006 at 1:14 pm
“The AP, AFP, and the vast majority of the world media just loves to get Israelis and Jews in pictures that are completely out of context, so as to forward their own lefty agenda.”
Conspiracy against Israel? Ofcourse!
July 18th, 2006 at 1:14 pm
They are Israeli under age terrorists that are fed on hate. When the arabs cry loud and say that extremists are uneducated they tell us off!
Those kids are the core values of Israel. What goes around comes around you know!
July 18th, 2006 at 1:22 pm
Re. “low class” i regret that statement intensely. I wrote it in the heat of the moment and I wish I could take it back.
The Hebrew expression I quoted is children of the peripheral towns (peripheria) and it is not a nice thing to say because it implies (falsely) that one’s provenance dictates one’s intelligence.
The reporter with whom I spoke prefaced that remark with the words, “Look, it’s a generalization but I’m using it as a kind of shorthand.” It was totally wrong of me to translate that expression. My point is that these are kids who did not understand what they were doing. And that they do not and did not intend to express hatred toward Lebanese.
I really hope that that message will penetrate a few thick skulls, but I doubt it.
July 18th, 2006 at 1:23 pm
This is how much Lisa is willing to protect the image of her country SM learn from her!!!!!
July 18th, 2006 at 1:26 pm
to lisa
If you don not believe in the legitimacy of transferring millions of natives from your “promised land” and that inflecting any death and destruction to bring about this project is justified. Then you are not a Zionist, and therefore should not be offended of me describing them. Please do not reefer me to some wikipedia page explaining the sublime essence of the Zionist project, i already read many similar thing. this project boils done to death, destruction and transfer.
July 18th, 2006 at 1:27 pm
Amgad -
You really need to read George Orwell’s 1984 and then consider your own perceptions and mental habits within its context. The polemics you are regurgitating are a wonderful example of the state-run media’s Goodthink at its finest. Not to mention to labelling of large classes of people that serves to truncate thought and limit critical thinking (Newspeak).
Help yourself. In doing so you’ll also help the rest of us.
July 18th, 2006 at 1:27 pm
Erm,.. it’s not Jewish to show dead people, really.
July 18th, 2006 at 1:28 pm
I agree with Israel guy: “The problem is the photographers lack of ethics and the parents lack of sense, but then, wisdom is seldom conventional and sense is far from common.”
July 18th, 2006 at 1:32 pm
So the trips of the school children to the efficient killing machines of the IOF are for mere recreational purposes and they happen just occasionally. You better sue the nephew of you former prime Minster for claiming the it is a habitual practice the encompasses all Israeli children from all areas and “classes”
July 18th, 2006 at 1:32 pm
Lisa - to say things we reget in the heat of the moment is human.
July 18th, 2006 at 1:32 pm
There is only one explanation:
This pictures were fake. AP is lying and doctored photos to harm Israel’s image abroad. Israel never does anything inhumane.
Why is everyone harassing Israel these days? She is the only one sticking up for civilization in the midst of chaos.
July 18th, 2006 at 1:37 pm
To mis-state things in the heat of the moment is human….bombing children is not.
July 18th, 2006 at 1:41 pm
Israeli Guy
Would you please explain to me what the perceptions and mental habits that i have and need to be changed to help myself and everybody else? After all this is another noble mission of the Zionists: to teach the barbarians around how to be civilized
July 18th, 2006 at 1:45 pm
Although I think these pictures are disgraceful given they are children and putting the entire ” low class etc as an excuse ” issue asside,one wonders how any parent would allow their child to approach such a vicious weapon no matter who it was intended for. However, if LISA is telling it like it and these messages were to nasrallah, then, while again not excusing it, I can understand. If the messages were not to the Lebanese people, then why the uproar.
These pictures have raised an interesting issue though. I hear certain of Middle Eastern persuasion, on this board, spew fury at these photos as a justification for their actions against Israel but when it is their side that is screaming ” death to Israel ” en mass ( mass gatherings of hate ), this is acceptable.
This is hypocracy at it’s pinnacle. You cannot condemn the other side for spewing hate and excuse your own side for the same. It is all inexcusable.
July 18th, 2006 at 1:55 pm
“This pictures were fake. AP is lying and doctored photos to harm Israel’s image abroad. Israel never does anything inhumane.”
The same old story of the Zionism, DENIAL and manipulation of world events.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:00 pm
Ok, I don’t think the pictures are fake but I do think they are taken out of context and twisted to suit whatever point people want to make.
If you take them from the point of view of the children I see smiling faces (probably because it’s the first bit of fun they’ve had in days) and not hate filled eagerness to kill. Which is more likely from young children?
The photographers and parents do not help matters but they might not realise how it will look from some angles. You’ve got to look at this rationally.
People who are determined to make this into a confrontation and negative image are just pathetic things who enjoy creating strife and hate. They need to get a life!!!
July 18th, 2006 at 2:05 pm
Point 1: The only visible message in the photos posted appears to read “To Nassrallah with Love.” It does not read “Death to Lebanon,” or “Die Islam Die.” If these kids are in artillery range of Lebanon, they are in rocket range from Lebanon, and the leader of the forces that are firing rockets at them is Nassrallah. Hell, if I was there I’d be writing on shells too.
Point 2: According to Lisa’s update, she tracked down the photojournalist who took the pictures and got the actual context of the shot from him, AND coroborated that story with another journalist who was there. The photographer instigated this episode. If ya’ll want to be pissed off at somebody, be pissed off at a news photographer who posed a picture designed to inflame hatred and outrage. I am willing to bet cash money that they stage photos of Palestinian and Lebanese kids in militant context as well.
The media has become jackals, the carrion crows of warfare.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:05 pm
Low class, not educated? What, they haven’t finished their BA yet? That’s what happens when you try to compare life in the US with life in Israel.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:07 pm
While I am sorry to see such pictures that are an insult to humanity, I am a bit pleased that it found its way to the media cause in the past we have seen much focus on Palestinian children holding weapons.
It helped forming a bad image about Arabs around the world back then. Now, people around the world would learn that we are not the only ones who have some savage minds who use childrens, Israel has those kind of people as well.
If a low class and poverty excuse works for them, it most definatly works for us as well….
July 18th, 2006 at 2:09 pm
Amgad - even though you’re a bigot and will probably ignore anything that doesn’t fit your sick and hateful worldview… I’ll try to give you some information.
The “children being shown the efficient killing machines of the IOF” are people who’re about to finish school and be drafted. The State does week-long familiarization programs with the military so that the kids will be better prepared for what they are about to enter, and so that they can make better choices for their military careers. Israel has compulsory military service because scum like you tried to pull an Auschwitz on us a number of times since the creation of this state, and are not showing are lack of desire to continue trying.
Keep on lying, keep on hating - it will not help you. We’ve returned to our homeland and we’ve returned for good.
Twosret - I am again disappointed with you. You failed to answer my question, you ignore anything that challenges your twisted perception. How does it feel, to be in the camp of eee and Amgad?
July 18th, 2006 at 2:09 pm
@Amgad, Sandmonkey is a good example of how you can try to make the world a better place. Instead of spreading hatred throughout blogs.
Love from an alleged zionist
July 18th, 2006 at 2:09 pm
For children to hate a TERRORIST MASTERMIND - Nasrallah - it’s not a moral loss to the Israelis. However, I’ve read arab books for schoolchildren which demonise our entire nation. How can you equate?
On another note, I’ve noted several commentators hate SM because he shows a different point of view from the mainstream Arab party line. A different point of view is going to be your first step into democracy.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:15 pm
I am probably more ancient than most of you and was bombed considerably during WW2.
Magnesium incendiaries were the preferred item in those days and many failed to ignite. As kids we played with them - paying lip service to the adults who told us it was dangerous. Many carried hand written messages which did not wish us well, some in English and some in German (which mostly remained obscure). Neither we nor our parents considered those messages to be even in bad taste, they were just a curious part of the scene.
The whole killing business, military or terrorist, is vastly unpleasant but there seems something almost absurd about the way the followers of every phase of every conflict, are turning over the shrapnel looking for irrefutable evidence of evil intent. Is this a part of proving one’s own innocence perhaps ?
July 18th, 2006 at 2:22 pm
Amgad- Twosret-
Zionist! Zionist! Zionist!……..Seems to be a recurring theme with you two. The bloody record stuck?.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:24 pm
It’s quite interesting to read all the comments and form immediate opinions as to who is able to make reasonable, rational, objective opinions about such a subjective event and who i can easily imagine as foaming at the mouth while they type, rabid fundamentalists from either side who cannot see an interpretation without wanting to rant about the obvious truth of their subjective opinion.
Is a forum of discussion such as this not a place for a meeting of minds and exchange of opinions rather than a display of cant?
And Uchuck, when haven’t the media been the first to plunder the bodies and sell souvenirs? There are exceptions.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:25 pm
As someone who’s neutral and has spent a fair amount of time with working photojournalists…
Lisa’s explanation isn’t kosher. Photographers can be manipulative as hell, but “hey, go draw on the bomb” seems beyond the realm of possibilities.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:27 pm
Give me a link to your question Raccoon, too many posts by SM and tried to look this morning for it and was lost in the hundreds of posts.
Awaiting…..
July 18th, 2006 at 2:28 pm
to the Racoon
People like me would never try to pull death and destruction on anybody. I deplore the attack on the humans by the same degree regardless of the identity tag of the victim. Therefore, I believe seriously that the Zionist state is as criminal as Hamas and Hizobllah. Both sides are killing innocents for tactical and ideological purposes
July 18th, 2006 at 2:32 pm
Raccoon,
My views were out there long before eee and Amgad showed up so grouping people together is a bad idea Raccoony, I thought you are more mature than this, I am not intimidated or threatened by your words. I didn’t twist or change any of my opinions. I have been a blogger for years and non of what I said changed through the years.
This is an untolerable banality of evil!
July 18th, 2006 at 2:33 pm
Amgad,
Well Said thank you!
July 18th, 2006 at 2:36 pm
Why was the writing in english? Kids that age in israel can’t write that much in english I don’t think - from experience with my husband’s relatives kids. I can understand if the soldiers wrote those messages, that makes a lot of sense to me.
the parents who took their children there need to have their heads examined. They are in the bomb shelters while sirens go off, the sirens stop and they come out and go to the nearest army position? presumably a target? where it is impossible to get to any good shelter in one minute? Something is f#$#ed up there.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:38 pm
Yeah, well, I am a Zionist. You can call me a Zionist all day long as far as I am concerned. First of all, although I find Lisa interesting, her liberal class bias slipped through just then. Lower class? Mizrachi maybe? Sorry but that’s just bogus, lisa.
Secondly, I am not surprized by this photo, as no one is an angel here on earth. My experiences in Northern Ireland have tought me that photographers can be the scum of the earth when it comes to encouraging the base instincts to get a “sensational” photo.
Yes it’s disgusting, but is it really all that shocking?
July 18th, 2006 at 2:38 pm
Wishbone,
Did the Zionist ideology die and we didn’t hear about it?
July 18th, 2006 at 2:45 pm
I dare say Uchuck in comment #25 said it well. This really isn’t as complicated as the comments here are making it. What’s so complex about the fact that these kids who have been hiding from Hizbollah rockets want to see an end to Nasrallah? Maybe kids shouldn’t be writing on artillery. Whatever. That’s their parents; business, no one else’s. And Lisa spoke with the journalists and gave us the info. Case closed.
For cryin’ out friggin’ loud, people!!!!!
July 18th, 2006 at 2:48 pm
Amgad - ah yes, moral equivalence. The person who’s killing civilians on purpose and the person who’s killing civlians by mistake while acting in self-defense are, of course, the same. Kind of like a cop that downs a psychotic murderer when being shot at is exactly the same as the psychotic murderer. How could I forget this?
Twosret - “non of what I said changed through the years.” Exactly. I am a Zionist. I am a proud Zionist, in fact, more than happy to be able to reclaim and rebuild my homeland - and to defend myself from attacks. Guess I am evil, then.
The question was:
a) What will happen if right now all the Israelis become utter and complete pacifists - to the point that we will not do ANYTHING to defend ourself?
b) What will happen if Palestinians become utter and complete pacifists - to the point that they will not do ANYTHING to defend themselves? You can substitute Palestinians for Arabs if you want.
And be truthful, please… if you indeed answer.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:51 pm
Deathway - the real problem is that someone allowed children near a military position. I presume that the commander of that position will be punished - this is illegal, immoral and dangerous.
All the rest is an attempt to make an elephant from a fly.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:54 pm
Raccoon,
Go to hell. Your country is filled with baby-killers.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:54 pm
Wow! A few kids write on bombs to be used in the war against the fanatics who would eterminate them and all of their families, and some of the “enlightened” absolutely lose their minds.
I was shocked upon viewing these photos too. But my shock was at, in a time when the nation of thise children is at war for its and its people’s survival, how relatively benign these pictures are.
The photos are interesting though in that through their publication they have helped to pull the mask of numerous commentators, revealing the true bigotry and hatred lurking beneath
July 18th, 2006 at 2:56 pm
th cop is not shooting the psychotic murder, the cop is dropping a 500 lb of TNT on a residential area where the murder might be.
i just imagine if serial killers in US, some of them has more victims than many hamas militants, were pursued in the same way. I guess most the US cities will be in rubble as US air forces will have to open hell on wherever an informant thinks/guesses/tells the psychotic murderer might be.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:58 pm
Raccoon,
Noted!
Marvin,
Thank you for your intelligent and relevant comment.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:59 pm
Amgad,
If that mass murderer was leading an army of his ilk through residential areas and using that as his base of operations…yeah, innocents would likely get hurt and killed in the process.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:00 pm
@Marvin, that happens when you hide in between them.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:03 pm
Amgad - more disinformation and false presumptions. IAF is using pinpoint precision strikes against bloody-handed terrorists who are swarming in PA and intentionally using the civilian population as a meatshield. If Israel would do what you say it does, there would be no PA left. Moreover, a ground operation usually entails many more casualties because the terrorists get a kick out of boobytrapping the areas they are in (see the Jenin “massacre”).
But, wait… sorry. I am confusing you with facts.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:08 pm
Sorry! When I see Israeli teenagers strap on suicide bomb belts and detonate themselves or use children as human shields, then you can say that the Israelis are no different than Hamas. Until then, don’t be stupid. There is no moral equivalence that can seriously be drawn. I don’t approve of this, and hope the commander of the unit that allowed the kids near the rounds will be punished, but there is a world of difference between the Israelis and the Hamastinians.
Israelis say that the offensive could last for weeks:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060718/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_israel_189;_ylt=Aontkr4P7×5X3DCTDV8oUTgUvioA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl
Is the peace process in need of a paradigm shift:
http://www.israpundit.com/2006/?p=1044
July 18th, 2006 at 3:10 pm
“Twosret - “non of what I said changed through the years.” Exactly. I am a Zionist. I am a proud Zionist, in fact, more than happy to be able to reclaim and rebuild my homeland - and to defend myself from attacks. Guess I am evil, then.”
I’m against the concept of Zionism that justifies the killing of other nation based on a religious belief.
Let’s see after 50 something years of oppression, invasion, brutality, I expect that the Palestinians/Arabs will riot and take the land back a la mafia style the same way Zionists did.
To answer the second question check out reality and what the Israeli Occupation forces are doing to Palestinians. The attacks of Palestinians are a joke anyway, they have no army, no weapons nothing. Few radical suicide bombers brain washed to protect their country.
Hope that staisfy you as an answer and next time shoot the message not the messenger.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:14 pm
I really do not see the difference from the point of view of a maimed toddler if the shrapnel that destroyed his life came from a high tech US made laser guided missile or from an improvised explosive devise. I do not think that it makes a difference for a mother of a killed child if he was killed in an operation aiming to make the people in Haifa or in Gaza feel secure and potent.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:15 pm
Twosret - no, this is not an answer. Why is it so difficult for you to answer me? It is a simple hypothetical situation… and I would really appreciate a honest and direct answer. Please?
And “killing of other nations based on a religious belief” - yes, Hamas and Hizballah are evil, I couldn’t agree more.
A little reminder - Zionism is a secular movement. Israel is a secular state. Why is it so difficult to digest?
July 18th, 2006 at 3:18 pm
Amgad - so you’re saying intent doesn’t count? Most judges in the sane world would disagree with you.
And so do I.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:22 pm
On the topic of journalistic manipulation, there is a fantastic Billy Wilder movie from 1951 called “Ace in the Hole.” A man is trapped in a cave in New Mexico, and a hardboiled newspaper writer played by Kirk Douglas decides to cover the story. Only the writer needs more time for the story to really blow up and get him money and attention, so he convinces the rescuers to take a week to drill down to the man, rather than the 16 hours it would take to just shore up the cave walls. He also takes posed pictures, and makes up sympathetic lies about the trapped man’s family.
Is it cynical? Yes. But does it ring true? Absolutely. There are a lot of vultures out there, and they take advantage of children on all sides of the conflict. Disgusting.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:24 pm
Intent, does count. However, you will have serious trouble convincing any judge that 500 lb of TNT dropped from air intend to kill ONE and only one man.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:30 pm
Amgad - right. So, enlighten me… what do YOU think the intent is?
A little suggestion - read the IDF reports on operations (availiable online). But wait… am I again bringing about them nasty, nasty facts? Sorry.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:35 pm
How can there be a secular Jewish state? It is by definition of “Jewish.” To be Jewish is to be defined by a culture/ethnicity rather than by a religion (as opposed to being Christian or Muslim). So if I say I am Christian, it means that I hold to the basic set of beliefs that define the faith of Christianity. If one says he is Jewish, he can be atheist, Hasid, New Age, Orthodox or even Christian in belief.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:38 pm
Raccoony,
Israelis have a problem, their country is founded on injustice and Until you fix the core of the problem there will be no peace.
No peace without Justice. Lord! How more honest and fair would I be?
“Most judges in the sane world would disagree with you.”
Which Judges are you refering to? the Judges that rules against the Israelis and you don’t give a damn about them?
July 18th, 2006 at 3:38 pm
Deathway - you forgot Discordian
July 18th, 2006 at 3:41 pm
Raccoon,
:-0 I never claimed to be an expert! I’m just a lowly goy!
July 18th, 2006 at 3:44 pm
Twosret -
And still you evade my question. Why is it so difficult for you to answer? This is about the 5th time you’re doing so.
We have discussed justice before. Justice for all. And the fact that justice comes after peace.
I am having similar conversations on other blogs, and here’s a little answer I left to Osaid about various demands to refute baseless lies about Israel:
“Imagine if I would say that you, Osaid, are a pedophile. When you’d protest I’d demand proof, while spreading the word that you are a pedophile. It’s not something you can really disprove, is it? In the meanwhile I’ll convince people that you are indeed a pedophile, start a movement to have you tried, convince people that know you and have them testify their suspicions… and you, knowing that you are NOT a pedophile, will have tremendous difficulty disproving it - and your stuttering and indignation would be turned against you. Add to this a conspiracy theory against you that claims that anything you say in your defense is lie because you’re a pedophile and are trying to cover up for yourself…”
This is the position you, Twosret, and others with similar tendencies, are putting Israel in.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:44 pm
Do you mean that IOF are idiots and that they use 500 lb of TNT to kill one man and that the collateral damages are absolutely bad surprises for them. I have/will never come close to a gun but I can tell that 500 lb of TNT is enough to below a whole building with so many randomly hit people that only an idiot would say: sorry, I meant to hit only one man.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:46 pm
Deathway - lol
You are hereby cleansed of the sin of not being an expert by Eris Discordia Herself (with yours truly as her Prophit)
July 18th, 2006 at 3:46 pm
Amgad - you, too, are evading simple questions. Why?
July 18th, 2006 at 3:48 pm
Twosret says:
The attacks of Palestinians are a joke anyway,
Yeah. They are just a joke, Twosret. It is real funny when you are scraping up pieces of your friends or relatives dead bodies off the cement from a Palestinian suicide bomber/professional comedian. Tons of laughs. Rolling on the floor laughing maniacally like my name was eee kind of laughs.
News/views:
Speak of kids and missles, mother in Lebanon names her kid after long-range Hezbollah missle:
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2006/07/nasrallah-rallies-terror-leader-finds.html
July 18th, 2006 at 3:52 pm
Here’s a little story about the evil ways of the evil, evil “IOF”:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1150886035223&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
BTW, Amgad… just a notice. I know you don’t care, but if you’ll call the people who’re dying to defend me and mine “IOF” again I will ignore your subsequent posts.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:53 pm
yeah um… if that is a child’s handwriting somebody please call MENSA we have some geniuses there. from what i saw the kids did the drawings… and not very good ones. writing was prolly done by someone else.
July 18th, 2006 at 3:55 pm
Tommy,
Bravo!
“Tonight, on Live at the Improv, our newest comic, Hamasi, will strap explosives to his belt and dive into the audience!”
I just don’t think it will draw the crowds.
Twosret’s argument is the same nonsnsical tit-for-tat diatribe. “All we did is have on elittle suicide bomber, who only killed 3 people. And the Qassams hardly kill anyone. [Is there such thing as "a little bit dead?"] So why the massive assault? You should only kill as many terrorists as we killed of your civilians.” WTF?
July 18th, 2006 at 4:03 pm
Raccoon
I am sorry if I hurt your feelings, but the Zionist army operates and have bases in many places whose people are not Israeli. What can we call this?
July 18th, 2006 at 4:09 pm
I couldn’t even continue to read these comments, some of them are so maddening. The Israelis have to be more careful because a p.r. war is also being fought. The world is used to seeing Palestinian children behaving like terrorists in training, not Israelis. Israelis have the moral high ground and they need to be careful and hold on to it. Don’t try to explain the pictures. Just make sure they don’t happen again.
Twosret….When an Israeli strap one of their children to one of those missiles then you can scream what goes around comes around.
July 18th, 2006 at 4:10 pm
Amgad - we do what we have to do in order to survive. By “many places” I presume you mean the West Bank? Read the history on why they are there. Try to discover what they actually DO there.
The IDF is Israel Defense Force - and that is what they do. They defend Israel. And if this means maintaining a base in a territory which habitually produces terrorists and the people of which are indoctrinated to believe that suicide while killing Jews is the highest virtue… well, then that’s what we must do.
Although I personally believe that this is less effective than other options, this is the one the bigshots chose.
July 18th, 2006 at 4:11 pm
Is it just me, or do you see a possible family resemblance:
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7050/620/1600/germany.0.jpg
http://ilovetheworld.co.uk/images/goonies.jpg
(If you cannot view these pictures by clicking on the urls, copy and paste them to your address bar.)
News/views:
http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2006/07/disproportionat.php
G8 Wants UN to strengthen role in combatting terrorism. (Good luck given the fact that they cannot even come up with a working definition of terrorism and Kofi Annan pals around with the likes of Nasrallah.)
http://counterterrorismblog.org/2006/07/g8_wants_the_un_to_strengthen.php
July 18th, 2006 at 4:12 pm
There is soooo much that can be said about certain peoples response to this issue. What it reveals is that some people are unable to see fault in their own and that is true on both sides of the fence but today is a little unique.
July 18th, 2006 at 4:20 pm
typical left wing media ploy.
July 18th, 2006 at 4:21 pm
Yet another example of the MSM making up the news. Between fake polls with questions like “when did you stop beating your wife” or “since so and so is an idiot and did XY&Z, will you _____ or _____?” and photos that are staged such as this, no wonder they are being called the dinosaur media. Everyday they get close and closer to disappearing. Just too bad so many guliable people still read newspapers/watch TV and believe the sh!t they are being spoonfed.
July 18th, 2006 at 4:22 pm
“Yeah. They are just a joke, Twosret. It is real funny when you are scraping up pieces of your friends or relatives dead bodies off the cement from a Palestinian suicide bomber/professional comedian. Tons of laughs. Rolling on the floor laughing maniacally like my name was eee kind of laughs.”
look who is twisting my words and comming up with a radical post that I personally attacked before and was told to kick back and take it easy laughter is the relief when it comes to crisis.
Amazing how you are capable of taking words out of context. The Joke was in reference to the military power not to the death of innocents.
Karen,
Different ways of terrorism doesn’t mean it is not terrorism. The CONSTANT attacks of the IOF on innocent Palestinian children and murdering them is not any different than the side you claim terrorists.
July 18th, 2006 at 4:26 pm
Twosret - I have just been over this with Amgad.
And you are still not willing to answer me…
Pity.
July 18th, 2006 at 4:29 pm
Once the Americans are evacuated later today I think we will see the escalation. I fear what is to come for those living in the ME right now. Stay safe everyone.
July 18th, 2006 at 4:30 pm
Hold on Raccoony, Deathway what gebbrish are you trying to say here?!
“Twosret’s argument is the same nonsnsical tit-for-tat diatribe. “All we did is have on elittle suicide bomber, who only killed 3 people. And the Qassams hardly kill anyone. [Is there such thing as “a little bit dead?”] So why the massive assault? You should only kill as many terrorists as we killed of your civilians.” WTF?”
July 18th, 2006 at 4:31 pm
It’s too bad those shells have killed mostly innocents instead of Nasrallah. It’s also too bad that Arabs don’t seem to care as much when a fundie Muslim Arab loads up a group of Shia in his explosives-rigged van and detonates it.
July 18th, 2006 at 4:44 pm
Perhaps we all could use some mind-clearing, Dr. Seuss style:
http://www.k-state.edu/english/nelp/childlit/seuss/20610.html
July 18th, 2006 at 4:56 pm
This pictures are are disguisting, but not because what they show, but bacause what these kids are doing were encoureged by the photograph. Another proof, that the photography is the least credible medium…
But despite all above, this pictures are still disturbing.
July 18th, 2006 at 4:59 pm
Twosret
The IDF has been out of Gaza for about 1 year. They have been out of Lebanon for several. The terrorist with whom you sympathize had no reason to kidnap Israeli soldiers, period. If they had wanted to negotiate the release of their “innocent” prisoners in Israeli jails they could have. Hamas and Hezbollah are Jew haters who do not believe that Israel should exist. They are like you. You hold the same beliefs as them and you support them. The Jews are home and aren’t leaving. Any solution to the m.e. problem has to deal with that. Unfortunaley H. and H. can not accept that fact. So there won’t be peace. And as for terrorism, your fighters hide among civillians, store their missiles amongs civillians and attack Israeli civillian populations from civillian areas. They are to blame for their civillian deaths! They are
July 18th, 2006 at 5:06 pm
“The terrorist with whom you sympathize ”
Karen, show me one post where I sympathized with any terrorists…..stop your false statements and I will not continue to read your post.
July 18th, 2006 at 5:10 pm
“Hamas and Hezbollah are Jew haters who do not believe that Israel should exist. They are like you.”
You resort to lies in your anger and become hysterical, I have never asked once in any of my posts to the destruction of Israel. Hamas and HezboAllah has never been my piece of cake and I have never encouraged any violence.
Get yourself some blue pills and chill.
July 18th, 2006 at 5:12 pm
The terrorists that you encourage the IOF are the ones killing 200 Lebanese civilians to recover two of it’s soldiers. The terrorists that you belong to are the ones who are destroying the Lebanese and Palestinian infrastructure.
July 18th, 2006 at 5:14 pm
*sigh*
Twosret - you continue to ignore evidence, opinions and facts which do not fit with your firmly fixed worldview. Why?
July 18th, 2006 at 5:16 pm
http://freesyria.wordpress.com/2006/07/18/lebanon-deaths-devastate-canadian-lebanese-family/
July 18th, 2006 at 5:17 pm
It the same style of intimidating anyone who disagrees with the Zionist state and condemns its atrocities. He/she must be Jews hater and a terrorist sympathises. The Zionists can not go on in an argument without accusing the others of these two things.
July 18th, 2006 at 5:18 pm
Raccoony,
I answered your questions, you don’t like them tough luck live with it! your facts are not mine and your evidence are not either. As long as our historical stories are not matching, our two truths are different and our two evidence are completely opposite, there will be no middle ground.
Not that I expected that there is one anyway.
July 18th, 2006 at 5:20 pm
Exactly Amgad, it is catch 22. They roar to save their image and defend their country and when we do, we are the terrorists.
They can’t itimidate me though I have met so many and know enough not to fall into this trap.
July 18th, 2006 at 5:20 pm
These accusations are not false, but I am not going to go back and read over everything you have said previously to point it out to you. Keep posting though, because it is you who gets hysterical and says the most ridiculous things. I will bring them to your attention in the future.
And it is the IDF not IOF, if you want to be accurate. I also recall you demanding a one state solution and for the return of all the Palestinian refugees (and their descendents I presume) to Israel proper. THIS is calling for the destruction of Israel Twosret. The only difference between you and the Islamic radicals is that you are kind enough to allow the Jews to stay.
July 18th, 2006 at 5:26 pm
The Zionists are Jews, Amgad. You can say Jews. The two words mean the same thing.
July 18th, 2006 at 5:26 pm
Karen,
I’m waiting for your evidence that I support HizoAllah or Hamas. I’m awaiting for your evidence of me supporting the destruction of Israel. I never mentioned the return of the Palestinian refugees in any of my posts and presuming the descendents is your little addition for sure.
IOF Israel occupying forces is the new name of IDF You missed on that one.
July 18th, 2006 at 5:27 pm
Not all Jews are Zionists false statement again Karen.
July 18th, 2006 at 5:28 pm
“I am not going to go back and read over everything you have said previously to point it out to you”
So I would highly recommend you shut your big mouth up and not accuse people falsely.
Capito?!
July 18th, 2006 at 5:34 pm
First off: Uchuck, post #25 was well said, thank you.
Secondly: No one I know, and I’m sorry if this offends anyone in the business, has much respect for the MSM anymore. This is one reason why blogs have become popular. People want the truth, not agendas. Even our little “local-hometown” newspaper has printed bogus things and presented them as fact, grrrrrr.
And Third: I am AMAZED at how people are so easily manipulated by a picture. WAKE UP FOLKS, don’t immediately TRUST what you SEE in the MSM. For your own sakes, PLEASE READ this article. Your future sanity may depend upon it: “LYING WITH PIXELS-can you trust what you see with your own eyes?”
http://www.technologyreview.com/read_article.aspx?id=12115&ch=infotech
July 18th, 2006 at 5:36 pm
Sorry Twosret, but all Jews are Zionists. The nonpractising, self hating (like Chomsky), assimilated may not be, but they are not Jews and don’t count.
And it is IDF. IOF is the term used by the stupid. Are you now one of them?
And I’ll shut up when you do. Capice?
July 18th, 2006 at 5:43 pm
Karen and Twosret - please, chill… this is pointless.
Twosret, I am unhappy with your answer because it doesn’t answer my question. It’s a politician’s answer.
Karen - not all Zionists are Jews, and not all Jews are Zionists. Bob Dylan, for instance, was a Zionist. And the absolutely overwhelming majority of Jews are Zionists. Chomsky and his ilk are indeed Jews - they are Jewish kapos.
July 18th, 2006 at 5:55 pm
Bob Dylan also went back to Judaism. And yes I am well aware of Christian Zionists and thank God for them. Please, Chomsky is a Jew by birth and that is about all. He is a traitor as are other Jews like him.
July 18th, 2006 at 5:57 pm
I have been following these pictures around the blogosphere and how they have been put to [unfortunately] effective propaganda purposes against the IDF. After reading through the responses to SM’s post (most of which are one way or another tangential and irrelevant, I have to agree with Raccoon, “the real problem is that someone allowed children near a military position. I presume that the commander of that position will be punished - this is illegal, immoral and dangerous. All the rest is an attempt to make an elephant from a fly.”
Don’t blame the children; they are children.
Don’t blame the journalsts; they are simply doing their job whether distasteful or not. Sensationalism sells.
However, whoever was in charge of this cache of ammunition should be court martialled for stupidity.
Arnie from NYC
July 18th, 2006 at 6:09 pm
Twosret-
“Did the Zionist ideology die and we didn’t hear about it? ”
The point is that “Zionist” just seems to be a catch all term for anyone you seem to disagree with. You got problems with any specifics of ideology then BE specific. I read here to get a balanced view. All I hear from you is vitriol and insults and the essence of your arguments seem to be down to one singular explanation…..it’s all because of Zionism.
I admit I don’t know as much as I should about the “ideology” of Zionism as I should, but with a will to knowledge I can correct that. But so far as I can tell, even I’m a Zionist and I don’t even know what one is!.
I’d love n