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Monday, 7 Aug 2006
I open yahoo news and I see this item: " Chavez accuses Israel of 'New Holocaust' ", and it made me wonder about something:
Seriously now, why is it that whenever someone talks negatively about the Israeli actions, they use Nazi speak? Don't they see anything wrong about this at all?
Don't get me wrong, I am not belitteling the deaths caused by the IDF or the numerous questionable actiosn the Israeli government took over the years (The whole Netenyaho as PM period, what was THAT about?), however, don't you think that nazi comparisons are a little, I dunno, too much?
I am not arguing against them from a sensitivity point of view either, altough it is kinda fucked up to keep calling them nazis (That's kinda like calling the Pleastinians zionists if you don't get why that is insensitive, and its really funny that we call for their annihilation, and sell Mein Kampf on the streets of Cairo, but call them Nazis). Nope, not worried about their self-esteem. They got thick skin. They can take it. I am simply arguing against it from an accuracy point of view, because I honestly think that using such comparisons belittle what the Nazis have done.
Think about it. Calling what's going on in Lebanon a new Holocaust is an offense to the Holocaust itself. The Holcaust was massive. Millions and Millions died in it, and died deliberatly in a massacare of ruthless prussian efficiency. The Nazis line itemd genocide. They treated it like a product. It was organized, orderly, efficient and massive in its scope. If you would try to describe the Israeli bombing of Lebanon, would you use any of those adjectives?
The Nazis wanted to kill all the Jews, and they nearly succeeded. They took no prisoners, didn't give a damn what anyone thought and drowned europe in a pool of blood. That was the Holocaust. What Israel is doing to Hezbollah? Not even comparable. They themselves said that they can't even kill them all. They ask people to evacuate before they bomb the area they are. Hezbollah is unleashing everything they have, and they are killing whomever they can kill. Can You honestly say that the Israelis are doing the same in Lebanon? Even the comparison using the palestinians isn't valid, because if Israel is really committing genocide against the Pleastinians for the past 50 years, they are doing a really horrible job at it. The Palestinian population in west bank and Gaza in 48? 500,000. The Palestinian population after 50 years under the "Nazi" zionist regime and their "holocaust"? 8 million. That's a 1600% increase. Jews must be really inefficient at that whole ethnic cleansing thing.
Listen, the only thing that the Nazi regime and the Zionist regime have in common is that they are both RACIST REGIMES. The Nazis thought the aryans were the master race, and the zionist call their Jews the chosen people, and they both favored their race above all others. But Racism ≠ Nazi-ism, and even this racist mentality isn't exclusive to the Nazi or the Zionist governments. Check Saudi with the christians, and Turkey with the Kurds if you doubt what I am saying. So yes, call them racist. Call them ruthless in their retaliation. But don't call them Nazis. You will just make yourself look stupid.
In other news, more people died in Darfur last week than this war and the Israeli occupation of southern Lebanon COMBINED. Do you care? Of course not. Bunch of black monkeys killing eachother, right? I mean, they are arabs, and muslims, but they are darkies, and we just don't care about those muslims. And make no mistake, what's happening there is closer to Genocide than anything Israel has ever done. But who cares about dead black babies anyway? Right?
August 7th, 2006 at 12:57 pm
“Check Saudi with the christians”
How can a Saudi that discriminates against Christians be a racist for discriminating someone of a diferent RELIGION?
The Saudis discriminate Christians not basing their prejudices on race. They are religiously intolerant, and to be honest this intolerance is widespread in most of the Muslim world - why are Iraqi Christians fleeing? Why are Zoroastrian Persians virtual prisoners in their own country? How about Pakistani Christians? Why is it that I can get three years in prison if I read a Bible in a Moroccan street? Why can’t Copts repair their own churches without a government permission?
Why was the “racist” and religiously intolerant Turkish film “Valley of the Wolves” (a film that portrays Jewish doctors harvesting human organs in Abu Graib) a big hit in Turkey? Why is it that the number1 2005 best seller in Turkey was Mein Kampf?
Zionists are not the ones obsessed with the Nazis. Chavez is a complete clown, and Muslims and complete hypocrites. If a non Muslim kills a Muslim, all hell breaks lose, when a Muslim kills a non Muslim, you people either don’t give a fuck, or you go to the streets to celebrate… what the fuck is that all about? When the Asian Tsunami hit, most of the money came from westerners when most of the victims were Muslim…when was the last time that a Muslim gave money to a non-Muslim charity (when dawa is not involved)?
And then you wonder why you are hated (or in the very least feared) by most westerners, which is the first step to be discriminated when you come to our countries…
To complete this “I’m up to my neck with this permanent Middle Eastern bullshit”, let me just say that if my country had received 10% of what yours has received in economic aid from America since 1973, we would have altars to worship the “great Satan”.
I am not Jewish and I am not American, I don’t even know any Jews. I am one of those Europeans from the fed up silent majority, one of the few that doesn’t fall for all the propaganda (did you know that several of the tragic Reuters photos from Qana were doctored with photoshop? Check LGF for news). I support Israel, and you know why? Because they are sane, they just want to go on with their lives while their neighbours want to continue being drama queens.
With the exception of dates, raisins, cheap rugs and hashish (oil production not included) you guys don’t produce ANYTHING. Your own country is keeping Ethiopia dry because you don’t let them use the Nile… you simply don’t give shit about their droughts… And your biggest concern in the world is that JOOOS are opressing Palestinians (an ethnicity that doesn’t even exist - before 1967 they were Gazans were Egyptian and West Bankers were Jordanian), and an ethnicity that you don’t give a fuck about (otherwise why is it that most Arab countries don’t allow them to settle permanently and insist in keeping them as refugees?
You guys are all hypocrites. This is all a VERY BAD MOVIE and I am fed up with this shit. Up to my neck.
August 7th, 2006 at 1:15 pm
…and we have another suicide bomber
August 7th, 2006 at 1:17 pm
why is it that whenever someone talks negatively about the Israeli actions, they use Nazi speak?
Because they are trying to:
a) hurt and shame Israelis and they think calling them Nazis (to the people who know the most about the Nazis, btw) will do that - and some idiot Israelis (Ilan Pappe, for example) assist them with this;
b) because if they scream it loud enough, they think the world will come around to their position and help stop the 4th Reich
c) because they lack the sufficient mental capacity and patience to make a proper, effective analogy.
The irony: in the part of the world that now is the leading proponent of Holocaust denial, they are also the first to use the “Nazi” epithet.
SM: “Listen, the only thing that the Nazi regime and the Zionist regime have in common is that they are both RACIST REGIMES.”
RE: that thought.
SM, your country is formally called the “Arab Republic of Egypt.”
That’s pretty racist too, right?
August 7th, 2006 at 1:18 pm
It isn’t Zionists that call Jews the chosen people; it’s the Bible, starting with Genesis. It’s not racist; Judaism is a NATIONAL religion. One can be Jewish by birth or by conversion, just as one can be American by birth or by naturalization.
August 7th, 2006 at 1:33 pm
Well SM, another fine posting. I have little to add, except for the widely accepted theory that by Nazi-fying the Jews/Israel/Zionists, nations the world over (esp in Europe) are then able to feel better about having done nothing to help the Jews during the Holocaust……
Regarding Darfur: a fine point, one that I bring up often but that interests nobody. How many black African muslims have been slaughtered in the past year? certainly far more than have ever died in Israel or Palestine, or all Israel’s wars combined since 1948. But like you say, who cares if Muslims kill Muslims - its only when the hook-nosed Nazis join the fight that suddenly the Arab world bands together and condemn the “agressor”. do something concrete or help their so-called brothers? nah. why pick the injured kid up when you can photograph him instead!
August 7th, 2006 at 1:35 pm
Follow up to Ben F and to put it bluntly: becoming jewish is like naturalising to a citizenship of some country, e.g. france.
August 7th, 2006 at 1:35 pm
In Brazil:
“A synagogue in a Sao Paulo suburb was vandalized over the weekend by unidentified men throwing rocks and Molotov cocktails, O Globo reported Sunday.
Brazilian authorities said outside the Jewish house of worship, spray painted on the sidewalk, were the words: “Lebanon, the true Holocaust.”
http://washingtontimes.com/upi/20060806-051447-4828r.htm
So we have, in one incident:
a) Holocaust denial;
b) Vandalism;
b) The notion that less than a thousand Lebanese dying (which is incredibly tragic and awful) in a war started by Hizballah is more of a Holocaust than 6 million Jews systematically slaughtered in concentration camps.
This kind of stuff rhetoric does have a populist appeal, and it does even sway some of the elites in Europe like the Greta van Duisenberg’s of the world - but the responsible adults - even the ones that tend to not like Israel - know exactly what’s going on here.
August 7th, 2006 at 1:35 pm
Actually Sandmonkey, all national movements are racists by your definition.Zionism doesn’t state Arabs are inferior/bad/whatever- actually in Hertzel’s “Altnoiland” he envisioned Jews and Arabs living peacefully side by side.The premise of Zionism can be worded thus:
“The Jewish people should have their own state, so that they may defend themselves better against persecution.”
The shoice of then Palestine(currently Israel) was mostly because of the strong emotional ties between Jews and that land,it is so strong that the only time Hertzel lost a vote in the Zionist Federation Congress was when he tried to push for Uganda in one of the first Zionist Congresses.
August 7th, 2006 at 1:36 pm
Heh.
Siniora:
“”This is the 26th day of the Lebanese holocaust. Israel is committing state terror,” he stated, stressing that Lebanon’s aim was to reach an immediate ceasefire based on the “Seven Points Plan.”"
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3287703,00.html
August 7th, 2006 at 1:41 pm
ouch, much as it pains me to say this, this blog is becoming a must read for views on current events in the ME.
You’re right about everything. The nazi thing is used because the ‘arab’ world is a sadist bunch who know how it must hurt to keep bringing this thing up of the holocaust again and again.
And the Darfur situation, again very true. Middle easterners (can’t use arabs as egyptians aren’t arabs) are perhaps one of the most racist people groups- ‘habibi’ to the white man and this to the black man:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4571606.stm
Alex, yes i totally agree with you. In the month of July an average of 100 Iraqi muslims were killed each day by fellow muslims….yes that’s everyday. But because they weren’t killed by the Jooz noone makes a fuss. And yes you’re right, the whole of the arab world is a bunch of hypocrites and you’re not the only one to have had it up to here with the whole ME situation. Unfortunately I do not think this will ever end so we better get used to it.
correction: we produce the world’s softest cotton sheets and towels- a steal at 30euros a sheet- i know! Also we are the only country to come up with a really yummy soup with the same consistency as snot called molokhia
August 7th, 2006 at 1:45 pm
In addition, I have just seen the utterly pathetic spectacle of PM Sinoira sobbing like a child in front of the Arab League. Its about time he cried, having destroyed the country he was charged to lead, having dragged his people down with him into the gutter and yet he is unable to criticise the terrorist organisation that took him along for the ride. Snivelling Sinoira, if you are not prepared to defend your freedom, then you do not deserve it. So said a 21 year old IDF officer as he led his 19 yr old soldiers into battle……
August 7th, 2006 at 2:39 pm
Alex,
Everything you said is true. But it is not just Israel that is the target - it’s the whole of western society. The leadership of Muslim nations, religious and political, seems to be comprised almost totally of stark, raving lunatics.
The sensible voices of people like Sandmonkey are are buried beneath an avalanche of hate. Read the what Hassan Nasrallah the other day. Unbelievably, it is part of a speech asking Arab leaders to press for a truce on Hizbollah’s behalf.
But his insults are mild compared to the mullahs in Saudi Arabia and Iran.
Hassan Nasrallah: “I want to say to our Lebanese people, the peoples of our nation, and the world, and to be very clear: What has happened since the first day of this war, and is still happening, even today - the killing, massacres, destruction, brutality, and barbarism - the ones responsible for all this are, first and foremost, Bush and his American administration. In our opinion, [Israeli Prime Minister Ehud] Olmert and his government are no more than tools in this war.
“I’d like to stress this by saying that the blood of the women and children in Qana and the blood of all the elderly and the innocent civilians that has been spilled in Lebanon stains the faces of Bush, Condoleezza Rice, Rumsfeld, and Cheney. This is the murderous, criminal, aggressive, and blood-shedding administration which continues to prevent the cessation of the aggression, by making conditions and trying to dictate them.
For the rest, and many other transcripts on the rantings of lunatic Muslim political and religious leaders, go here:
http://www.memri.org/
or here:
http://www.memritv.org/
It would be laughable, except they are all deadly serious and most Muslims believe them.
August 7th, 2006 at 2:42 pm
Obviously it’s intended to be as offensive as possible but I also think that people who call this and that a holocaust or compare the war on terror to WWII are lucky enough to have no concept of how bad the second world war really was.
The raw death toll is just too big to comprehend. To try to give some perspective, here are just a few individual statistics.
300,000 Chinese civilians killed by Japanese troops in six weeks in Nanjing
1 million Russian civilians died of starvation during the siege of Leningrad
13,000 tons of explosives dropped on London in two months during the Blitz
Over 140,000 Japanese civilians killed by the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Over 100,000 killed in the firebombing of Tokyo
and 5-6 million Jews killed during the Holocaust
August 7th, 2006 at 2:46 pm
Hey SM, kinda let me down with that whole “the only thing that the Nazi regime and the Zionist regime have in common is that they are both RACIST REGIMES”. Zionism isn’t a regime, it’s a philosophy based on the idea that the Jews deserve a homeland. If you disagree with the way it is implemented, you could make an argument for that idea. Otherwise, I would have to point out the same things to you I have to eee (and I shudder at the comparison) that there are Druze who serve in the IDF, that Christians live in Israel, and so there may be tension with certain groups but it would be false and lazy to categorize that as “racist”; it’s more complicated than that.
Furthermore, as far as the whole “Chosen People” is concerned, it’s not about being chosen ’cause we’re so fabu, as I understand it. It’s about being chosen because Jews are just like everyone else, and if they can live by G-Ds laws, then we can set an example. Kind of like those Jenny Craig commercials: “If I can lose 127 pounds (and keep shabbat), then ANYONE can.” I realize that may not be how it was presented to you (from what I understand, your early education on Jews was pretty much: “They suck”) but that’s how it was meant. Take it from a daughter of a biblical archeologist.
August 7th, 2006 at 3:02 pm
SM,
Wow. It looks like you touched a nerve.
And Hannah’s right. “Chosen-ness” doesn’t mean “we rock, you suck.” It means “G-d told me to tell you this,” with all the attendant blaming of the messenger (us Jews). Chosen is by no means necessarily a good thing. Which is why we figure you’re nuts if you want to convert into Judaism.
Hannah, What’s up with comparing SM to eee, even in jest?
August 7th, 2006 at 3:24 pm
I think SM was referring to the following when he meant that there was some racism in the embedded mentality of Zionism: (however, this by no means- means that all Jews or Zionists do think this way, but it cannot deny that a large majority do…..) (Secondly, HezboAlla has often used the tit for tat method with Israel in regards to POW’s….never has it suddenly led to an all out war….a true failure on behalf of Olmert in my opinion.)
“The late Israeli academic and human rights advocate, Israel Shahak, traced the roots of Israeli public justification for killing Palestinians, for instance, to similar readings of the tenets of Halakhah. While the murder of a Jew is considered a capital offence in Jewish law, the murder of a Gentile is treated quite differently. “A Jew who murders a Gentile,” Shahak reveals, “is guilty only of a sin against the laws of heaven, not punishable by court.” Indirectly, but intentionally, causing the death of a Gentile is “no sin at all.”[6] A booklet published in 1973 by the Central Region Command of the Israeli army subscribes to this same doctrine. In it, the Command’s Chief Chaplain writes:
“When our forces come across civilians during a war or in hot pursuit or in a raid, so long as there is no certainty that those civilians are incapable of harming our forces, then according to the Halakhah they may and even should be killed … Under no circumstances should an Arab be trusted, even if he makes an impression of being civilized … In war, when our forces storm the enemy, they are allowed and even enjoined by the Halakhah to kill even good civilians, that is, civilians who are ostensibly good.[7]“
August 7th, 2006 at 3:44 pm
SM, I think the irony or hypocracy of calling Israeli actions a holocaust is clearly intentional. I think those who do it, Arabs, Chavez, “Jews Against Zionism”, do it to say, “look what happend to you, and now look what your doing to others” obviously the numbers arent comparible but there are endless examples of mass genocides in history, the reason why the term Holocaust is used is because the Jewish Holocaust is the only one anyone knows or cares about. Dont forget the genocides in Angola or The Armenians, the Assyrians, the Naitive American Indians, the 12 million Russians killed by Stalin, most of which being Clergy and lay people. No one cares about that however. Darfur is a good example, but people do care, I’m proud to say I have many family and friends in Egypt actively rescuing people from Darfur. So why do people use the term Holocaust, because its the only Genocide the world knows about, it has become a buzz word.
August 7th, 2006 at 3:50 pm
Im sorry, but where, except for a few of the extreme religious zionists did “chosesn peoplehood” come into the equation.
You need to remember that Zionism was founded by people who were not especially religious and that Zionism is a textbook case of nationalism. The only difference is that it is nationalism in a group that had been exciled from thier physical nation for milenia. Now if Zionism is racism, than every single national movement and national pride is racism as well.
The only racism that might have crept into israel is simply the after effect of getting attacked constantly and continuously by the same group of people for decades, a group that has made it their goal to eliminate you and your nation from the face of the earth and for whom every statment is positivly soaked in the kind of racist language that should cause that worl to shun them
let me quote from acticle 7 of the Hamas Charter:
“The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews.” (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).
But thats not racist…thats just ….resistance?
August 7th, 2006 at 3:56 pm
In the circles I run in when anyone throws out the Nazi comparison it is a sign that you have won the arguement because it means they have run out of sonstructive things to say. Along with throwing out insulting words both are a substitute for real intellegience. Try just smirking the next time some looney tune says something like that in front of you. It drives them crazy and they tend towards meltdown mode. Noting like shrieking moonbats for free entertainment!
August 7th, 2006 at 4:11 pm
I found your Darfur comment to be interesting- the only group of people that I see making a big stink about Darfur happen to be the Jews. Very few people seem to care, except for us.
That said, we also need to realize that in comparison to other conflicts, Arab-Israeli conflicts are minor when one looks at the total number of deaths and destruction. However, the Arab-Israeli conflicts tend to be overly hyped and publicized in comparison to Rwanada or Darfur. If one Israeli or Arab gets killed it’s front page news, but if 2,000 Sudanese get massacred a brief article might appear on page 23 of the New York Times.
And people misuse the term genocide all of the time- genocide denotes calculated, planned extermination of a people or peoples. I wonder if any of these people claiming genocide actually looked at the population statistics of those peoples under so-called Israeli occupation- you’ll see a net increase in population, with far more deaths from vehicle accidents and cancer than any Israeli “aggression.”
August 7th, 2006 at 4:21 pm
I think we are all screwed; Arabs, Muslims, Christians, Westerners, Easterners… All of us.
Living in North America, I see it as looking out over the ocean and seeing a slow moving black cloud coming my way. It is already raining hard in Europe; it is a devestating tsunami in the middle east, it is starting to drizzle in North America. Some people stand out in the storm unaware that lightening might strike at any moment. After all, they have things they need to do.
August 7th, 2006 at 4:38 pm
Chavez just does his best to please his allies (Iran, most notably) by condemning Israel as harshly as possibly. It does not matter that his comparisons are beyond any reason — they are just meant to be extreme and loud, not anywhere close to truth. Political exaggeration, you may say.
August 7th, 2006 at 4:53 pm
Dr. Guy
“the only group of people that I see making a big stink about Darfur happen to be the Jews.”
Hmmm thats interesting here is the official Save Darfur Website which is a collection of over 100 faith based organizations. I’m sorry to burst your bubble but there are alot of people reguardless of race or religion who are trying to do something. I personally met and worked with a group of humanitarians serving on the international council to save Darfur. None in that group of 100 spanning 32 differnt countries and from various religious backgrounds happend to be Jewish, so dont go around touting your self-rightous rhetoric, that no one cares but the jews.
http://www.savedarfur.org/
August 7th, 2006 at 4:54 pm
Racism is very difficult to attribute to the nowaday Israel. It is enough to walk into a street in Israel — you see a multi-colored mixture of “traditional races”, and most of them Jews. European, Ethyopean, Indian, Iranian, …. — Jews.
And even Arabs, while a traditinal enemy for 85 years at least — live and profit among those “racist” Jews, participate in the Parlament. Though there is a certain tension between Jews and Arabs in Israel (understandably), the co-existence clearly denies any thought of racism, to my mind. There is much more tension between nations/religions in Lebanon.
The mere fact that it needs deep thinking and “tracing the roots” to find “racism” of the Jews, demonstrates that this idea is very-very-very artificial.
August 7th, 2006 at 5:02 pm
Zionism is nationalism, just like Arabism, Baathism, Nazism, etc. and can be racist. Nationalism are inherently exclusionary and lead to bigotry in heavy doses. Not all Zionists are racists though, just like not all Arabists are. When you do things in the name of Zionism or Arabism, especially in military or political contexts, you’re usually going to end up looking like a racist. If you displace Arabs because you want a more Jewish patch of land or if you chase Jews into the Med. because you don’t want them in Gaza city or wherever, or take away the citizenship of Jews (like in Egypt), you’re a racist, I don’t care whether or not Zionism or Arab nationalism says its ok. Everybody is a little bit racist (I won’t lie, I have my own prejudices against “real” Middle Easterners, caucasians, etc as I’m sure others do), and every national ideal is too. The difference is how that is expressed, if at all. When Arabs stop having Arab Republics, taking citizenship away from Jews and Kurds, pretending that Berbers are just Arabs with funny accents, stop pretending that Persians and Shias have tails, and allow blacks and South/Southeast Asians to be equal in the Gulf then they can talk about how racist and evil the Zionists are with respect to their national idea. That would be an ideal situation, but obviously the world is not ideal and people are ignorant and want to push their political aims. So its not nice to call Zionists Nazis because it hurts their feelings, but it is not nice for hardline Zionists to call Arabs cockroaches and try to displace them from their lands illegally. But it’s also not nice to exile people because they’re Jewish, or to gas them because they’re Kurdish. Both sides behave and shout at eachother poorly I think. But the Nazi accusations will not stop.
BTW the Baath Party and pretty much all the other forms of pan-Arab nationalism, including the whole “you speak Arabic, you’re an Arab, bitch!” mentality, arose because some loser that didn’t even speak Arabic wanted Arabs to be like Germans and east Europeans and have a chauvanistic linguistic and racialist identity. It’s all basedoff the same ideas and philosophy that Nazism is and the Baath Party is nothing but a mixture of Nazism and Stalinism and some traditional Levantine anti-Semitism/Perso-Kurd bigotry. What do you expect from a region whose collective identity is based off of this?
August 7th, 2006 at 5:07 pm
Hey Clear -
I love Molokhaia and it’s snotty consistency! It’s delicious with farakh. And we do make some bad ass cotton!!
Alex - You were spot on! It’s nice to hear that perspective from a European. And I think you’re right, Europeans are slowly but surely waking up to what’s going on. It will take Islamo-fascism’s continuing rise…but eventually the whole of Europe will wake up to WWIV.
August 7th, 2006 at 5:10 pm
Nouri, I think I love you, well said!
August 7th, 2006 at 5:14 pm
Quoting yonatan bryant quoting Hamas Charter (article 7):
“Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews.”
LOL - what’s that about? One of the trees of the Jews? I didn’t know we had a tree … Who’s responsible for writing the bit in the charter about the trees? What were they smoking at the time? And do they have any to spare?
Apart from that, I have to say, it cracks me up sideways every time I see the word “JOOOZ”. Even writing it just now made me chuckle.
August 7th, 2006 at 5:17 pm
Oh thanks Egypeter for the inspiration and here I am thinking what to cook for dinner Molokhia with Farakh yummmy
Shobrawy, want to come over for dinner ? 
August 7th, 2006 at 5:32 pm
They Godwin’d themselves: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_Law
August 7th, 2006 at 5:37 pm
Definately would be interested in some Molohia and Farakh, and maybe some fettah. mmmmmm
August 7th, 2006 at 5:47 pm
I think the reason for continually misusing the words “Nazi” and “holocaust” is to make the words meaningless, so that they cannot be used to describe organisations like Hezb’allah and their plans for the Jews.
I have no doubt that they plan, if they possibly can, to kill every Israeli, and then go on to kill any Jews that live in other countries. It is so easy to stir up anti-Semitism, even in Britain or the US, that they may well succeed. Racial hatred is truly evil.
August 7th, 2006 at 6:02 pm
Yemenite chilbe is snotty in consistency too.
August 7th, 2006 at 6:08 pm
as long as you don’t bring your uncle Shobrawy lol
I will make all the dishes you want 
August 7th, 2006 at 6:21 pm
Wow monkey, you the man!!
As for the CHOSEN part. Quite simply, it means that Jews were chosen for special tasks (or burdens). These are known as the commandments.
Also, Jews were not the first people that G-d asked to accept the commandments. The first few groups refused. Would you want 613 commandments controlling how you lived your life? Get over the chosen thing will ya.
August 7th, 2006 at 6:29 pm
I’m having more and more trouble reading blog-news now… every piece contains an element of that which is horrible and that which I as an American can do nothing about.
Israel and the USA have doubtlessly erred and fallen short of righteousness, but that’s not what is at stake here. Constant hatred and wickedness must be stopped. I was not alive then, but we as Americans had to and are still atoning for our destruction of the American Indian and our treatment of the Africans that we imported as slaves. 620,000 American lives were lost in the War Between The States (the US civil war) and no doubt the blood was partly our atonement for our grevious errors. Even into the 60’s we had to combat hate and racism within our own borders– belief that our black brothers and sisters were somehow inferior. As a man with a strong relationship with God, I find that failures and losses of American lives in various places have been the result of our earlier errors. Sometimes, you can’t atone for something by saying you’re sorry. Sometimes God decides the punishment, and leaves it to you to figure out why. I see that the lives lost in Iraq are a sort of payment we delivered in blood for supporting Saddam back in the day. Sadly, we may have had no better choice. Just because we didn’t have a better choice didn’t make our choice any less bad.
To me this all stems from the old line: “The tree of liberty is watered with the blood of patriots.” This is why I feel the greatest respect for our armed men and women, because it seems they often pay the price in blood for that which we as the common people were unwilling to.
Back to the subject at hand (I’ll bring this thing together here) the evil committed and propagated by a lot of these Arab states makes the USA, Britain, Israel et al nowadays look like blushing schoolgirls. The Saudis– supposedly our freinds– a freindship no doubt that we will recieve recompense for in our own blood– have textbooks that make our anti-negro propaganda from back in the day look mild. But that’s not even the point. You can’t justify an evil by comparing it to another evil. It would be like Jeffrey Dahmer saying that this person and that person had committed murder, as a way to defend himself in court. That’s called– well, it doesn’t have a name, because it simply isn’t even a fallacy, its just not a justification at all.
This whole Nazi referencing is just a bloody crock of crap. They just want to hurt the Jews and specifically the Israelis in any way they can. Hate, hate, hate… welcome to Hate inc, exports: Katyushas. imports: corpses for propaganda photos. Only U.S. dollars accepted…
How do you make your enemy kill civilians? Trap them in their own houses, and then be the first on the scene to doctor the photographs to make sure it looks the way you want it to. Your colluders? The blatant and obvious Reuters and their Islamist freelancers. Oh, and the U.N. This isn’t conspiracy theorizing, its stuff that we get hit with so much we become completely numb to it.. kind of like the evils of the Cuba regime. I asked my roommate about it, and he was so callous to it, that the only thing he could say about Castro’s 4 private hospitals was: “Its good to be king…”
Mainstream Media is probably dying because, it is a form of media that is like a monarchy or oligarchy– too easily controlled by the few.
Partly the Islamists understand that if they spew hate enough people will become numb to it… like the boy crying wolf. So when they really want to act on their desires, nobody will see it coming. Why? Not because there weren’t any signs, but because there were too many.
To paraphrase the words of Jesus: “If you hate your brother in your heart then you have already murdered him.”
August 7th, 2006 at 6:31 pm
Shobrawy,
Sorry you don’t know any Jews fighting against the genocide of black Muslims and Christians (by Arabs) in Darfur. Where I live the Jewish schools, my synagogue, the Jewish Federation, and the Jewish students at the local University have have all had fundraisers for Darfur. And that is just a fraction of what is happening in my community. So what you don’t know just proves you are not aware of what we are doing and not that we are doing nothing, dude.
August 7th, 2006 at 6:34 pm
Once again, a great post and great debate.
August 7th, 2006 at 6:37 pm
In my college fellowship, Intervarsity Christian Fellowship, there was a big push (and involvement) in the Darfur Freedom Walk.
Our fellowship however was and has been poisoned by a level of multiculturalism… but at least they still have eyes to see evil.
August 7th, 2006 at 6:49 pm
Karen
Keep your panties on I didnt suggest that NO jews are working for Darfur, I clearly said that “there are alot of people reguardless of race or religion who are trying to do something” in Darfur. The fact that I met many relief workers and none were jewish is to outline the point that clearly Dr.Guys comment “the only group of people that I see making a big stink about Darfur happen to be the Jews.” is simply untrue. Apparently that went over your head or you barely read my comment.
“Shobrawy your so clever”
August 7th, 2006 at 6:58 pm
River.
“To paraphrase the words of Jesus: “If you hate your brother in your heart then you have already murdered him.””
This is the most sick part of your post, you are actually bringing Jesus into this? you want to paraphrase your nonsense talk to make it a Jesus talk.
August 7th, 2006 at 7:06 pm
My panties are on doof, and I read your whole comment. Darfur is a big issue in my community. Whether you have met any Jews working on the cause or not is irrelevant.
And how would you know a Jew if you met one unless they told you they were Jewish? We come in all colours and shapes and sizes.
August 7th, 2006 at 7:10 pm
“We come in all colours and shapes and sizes.”
I was wondering how you look like karen
btw I got in touch with Raccoony he is halarious as usual. Can you imagine each of us with a picture shouting in SM blog. I wonder when we will see a video blogging feature 
that will be interesting 
August 7th, 2006 at 7:13 pm
*hilarious
August 7th, 2006 at 7:21 pm
Egypeter,
“Also we are the only country to come up with a really yummy soup”
dude, i was in no way dissing molokhia, it is afterall our only real national dish, well along with koshari and fool.
Twosret,
it is actually quite rude in our culture to talk about molokhia under our noses and not invite us round.
Sorry for reducing this discussion to one about molokhia- so easy to digress when it comes to food though
August 7th, 2006 at 7:30 pm
Clear,
Paleeze I would never turn an Egyptian or Non-Egyptian down when it comes to my Molokhia and Fetta
I promise a royal one with perfect rice 
The discussion needs some Molokhia with Farakh, I can challange any Rabbi (local from the US or imported from Israel) for inspection of my Molokhia to prove that it is not Kosher lol
August 7th, 2006 at 7:33 pm
Hi Twosret,
I’m glad to contacted Raccoon and I’m glad he is well. A video blogging feature? Doesn’t sound too good to me. People aren’t their most attractive when they are angry. Anyways, I’m going out. Catch you later.
What is molokhia etc.? Will check your response when I come back.
August 7th, 2006 at 8:08 pm
I must protest the implyment that zionism is a racist regime. first of all, as someone mentioned befor, it’s not a regime at all. it’s a movement. and even if some modern zionists (like the “settlers”) are abit racsit at times, they are only one branch of zionism, and by no way the majority (as proven in the withdrawl from gaza).
if you ment that israel, as a country, is racist, I have to protest that too. I admit we’re not an utopic state where arabs are treated exactly like jews, and women don’t usually earn as much as men, but compared to other western countries, we’re not doing that bad. it’s a far-far way from being “racist”.
but I really liked the idea of calling phalestinians “zionists”…
August 7th, 2006 at 8:20 pm
oh, and speaking of darfur. how come every year, when the UN notes slavery day, africans accuse european and americans for the slave trade, and neglect to mention that it were arabs who ventured deep into africa, captured the natives and sold them to the white slave traders? there’s enough blame to go around, if you ask me. but, as we all know, it’s all politics.
August 7th, 2006 at 8:27 pm
Nadav, Your forgot to say “I protest ” on post #49
August 7th, 2006 at 8:39 pm
It’s amazing to me that your self evident comments about the Nazi epithet get such an outpouring. That said, it was well stated.
Your Darfour remark however, chilled me, so true, so true.
August 7th, 2006 at 8:44 pm
Twosret-
“Molokhia with Farakh”
You know what mate?….That’s just not fair!. And that goes for the rest of you lot too!….Look at you all….Going on about “Molokhia” and “Farakh”. I can just imagine you all sitting there with your eyes all glazed over, mouths watering at the thought of it. I had to go and look up the recipes and meanings of what you were saying and I say again: That’s just not fair!.
I know most Brits’ culinary adventures never usually go farther than a curry but my stomach and I will never forgive any of you for keeping that one quiet. Do you know what it’s like to read some of those recipes and then sit there pretending the pizza you’re munching on is anything other than junk fare?.
I’m sulking now……
Ps: Nice to know you’ve heard from Raccoon and that he’s ok, Twosret. I thought you were going to have a breakdown when he disappeared from here
August 7th, 2006 at 8:54 pm
“I know most Brits’ culinary adventures never usually go farther than a curry”
Speak for yourself! I’ve had some quite scary culinary adventures. I tried chicken’s feet for the first time this year. Probably for the last time too mind.
August 7th, 2006 at 9:02 pm
To me this all stems from the old line: “The tree of liberty is watered with the blood of patriots.”
That was written by Thomas Jefferson: “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants.”
/carry on
August 7th, 2006 at 9:09 pm
#53 Stephen
Hehehe……..Chickens feet?……. You have only yourself to blame for that mate
August 7th, 2006 at 9:13 pm
I agree with everything SM says except the point at which he describes the Zionist regime as racist. That there are racist Zionists out there is undoubtedly true, but there are also racist Palestinian nationalists out there.
First of all, the Zionists didn’t call Jews the Chosen People. Many–make that most–Zionists were secular nationalists and were motivated by a desire for sovereignty and a sense of roots, tradition, and what they considered to be history, not by religious doctrine. The notion of the “Chosen People” was a religious one, with no racial notion attached to it. It simply meant that the Jews had a covenant with God. Many Christians think that they have inherited this convenant, and Muslims think that they were the carriers of God’s final message. All religions think that they’re the true one, even if they preach tolerance of others. It’s only natural.
Secondly, Zionism is nationalist–not racist–in its philosophy. The Nazis preached racism as such. They believed in races as the organizing principle for relations among the peoples of the world, historically and in their own times. And they maintained that the “Aryans” were inherently superior to all other races. Zionism did not preach that races matter above all else, or at all; nor did they maintain that any races were above any others. They only preached that their group deserved their own national home. The founding principles of Zionism contained nothing about other nations or races or religions being inferior to their own. They were self-centered because they were consumed with their own history, but they weren’t after putting down anyone else. That doesn’t mean that Zionists cannot be racist or that there haven’t been plenty of racist policies on the part of Israel. But this is more of a reactive racism: hostility towards an enemy against which they’ve been at constant war– and the dehumanization that results. The same could be said for the Arabs in their views of Israelis, and of Jews in general. The same could be said for many nations at war; you need only look at how Americans regarded the Vietnamese, or see US anti-Japan or anti-German propaganda from WW2.
As for the original views of Zionism, I remember reading one of the earliest tracts of the Zionist movement, I think it was a novel called Altneuland. The idealized view the novel showed was that of a Jewish homeland with Jews living at peace among other groups, and no one minding about boundaries.. Note that this was a fundamental text in the founding of the Zionist movement.
This doesn’t mean that the early Zionists were free of racist instincts. The very fact that they could ignore the Arabs in their midst shows a deep-seated insensitivity, a cognitive dissonance, that they more than likely shared with many Europeans.
Thirdly, any nationalism is bound to be somewhat exclusivist, if only by implication. Please don’t tell me that anyone takes that “secular, democratic state of Palestine” line seriously. Of course, Palestinian nationalism has no real place for Jews either. When they’re not being frank about wanting all the Jews out, they skirt the topic. Or imply that Jews whose antecedents had arrived before a certain date would be allowed to stay, and then they get cagey about what date that would be (1918? 1880? the Stone Age?). Jews, in reality would be tolerated as a tiny, humbled minority. If at all!.
But my point is that all nationalisms, even those sanctified by the left, are necessarily exclusivist to a certain degree, even if they don’t aim to be. Algeria was for the Algerians, not for the French or other Europeans whose families had been living there for generations. Polish anti-Nazi nationalism explicitely excluded the Jews in their midst. Does this mean that nationalism by definition equals racism? No. It just means that nationalism can be racist, under the right circumstances. It also means that nations busy fighting for their existence or their own right to national expression may not want to exist in a multi-cultural format like Canada’s or Australia’s (both very new in their histories, by the way). Even if they explicitely promote tolerance of minorities within their midst (as committed Zionists have done), their real concern is the fate of their own people (ditto with those committed Zionists). People read accounts of Irish nationalism with sympathy, but that’s because they didn’t have minorities among them; and they certainly still have little place for Protestants in their scheme of things (vice verse too, I’m afraid).
Zionism is Israeli nationalism, or a form of Jewish nationalism, pure and simple. It wants for the Jews what the Arabs or Vietnamese or the Irish or whoever want for themselves: self determination. That the Zionists wanted self-determination in a land claimed by Arabs is their tragic misfortune. Not to mention the tragic misfortune of the Arabs! But that is not to say that Zionism is inherently a racist philosophy, any more than Arab nationalism is fundamentally or philisophically racist.
By the way, note that I said that Zionism is a form of Jewish nationalism. That was not a typo. There was another sort of Jewish nationalism: the Ashkenazi Jewish nationalism represented by the left-wing Jewish Bund. They favored a Yiddish-language Jewish nationalism based in Europe, with no country but with a strong cultural autonomy. But they were opposed by the Communists (among whom they sought allies) and by everyone else. Not surprisingly, they were eventually stamped out by the Stalinists and by the Nazis (and by the Poles and the Ukrainians, and so on).
Some may say that Zionism is inherently racist because it is based on the taking of someone else’s land. But that gets into a whole other issue that I don’t feel qualified to even touch. My point simply is that Zionism is not a racist philosophy.
August 7th, 2006 at 9:28 pm
“None in that group of 100 spanning 32 differnt countries and from various religious backgrounds happend to be Jewish”
I’m not into pointing fingers about who’s concerned with Darfur — people from across race and faith backgrounds in the US are clearly involved in Save Darfur efforts — but this sentence calls for a correction. On the list of 100 organizations mentioned in that comment, there are quite a few Jewish orgs listed, including the first one on the list. http://www.savedarfur.org/about/signatories
In fact, the Save Darfur coalition began at a summit put together by the US Holocaust Memorial Museum and the American Jewish World Service.
August 7th, 2006 at 9:34 pm
Good post SM. Articulates most of what really annoys me coming out of the Arab world. The “drama-queens” of the desert have made it hard for many to take anything they say seriously.
Case in point:
Interesting Sinoria was crying to the Arab foreign ministers. Saying amongst other standard Arab “words” this: “”A terrible massacre took place at the village of Houla where more than 40 people were killed as a result of an Israeli bombardment,” the PM declared.”
Funny that it really turned out to be all untrue. Only 1 person actually died.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/07/AR2006080700254.html
Has the man no shame. Was not using all the old Arab lines not enough that he now has to make stuff up? Oh riiiiight. It was only a mistake. How convientent, and coincidental, your falsehood happened on the eve of the meeting and the correction, after.
August 7th, 2006 at 9:37 pm
Dear house nigger,
> Listen, the only thing that the Nazi regime and the Zionist regime have in common
> is that they are both RACIST REGIMES. The Nazis thought the aryans were the master
> race, and the zionist call their Jews the chosen people, and they both favored their
> race above all others.
what went wrong?
Don’t ya know, that a house nigger NEVER EVER reveals the truth about his filthy
masters?
Still can’t believe to see that insubordination…
August 7th, 2006 at 9:48 pm
On Darfur. What the point is, that I see anyways, is not that there are no Arabs nor Jews or anyone else doing anything humanitarian wise. But rather, where are the street protests, where are the demands for instant cease-fires, truces, or cessations of violence. Why no emergency meetings of the OIC or security council convening to deal with it in similar timeframe as what is demanded of Israel-Hezbollah conflict. Where is Jan Egland denouncing the Egyptian handling of Sudanese refugees. In short, where is the daily barage of media reports, numbering in the thousands, updating every single last detail?
August 7th, 2006 at 10:13 pm
Wishbone,
Raccoony is my fav. zionist Jew of all times look at him
http://www.loomcom.com/raccoons/gallery/jpegs/raccoon1.jpg
Even Haifa Wehbe is trying to copy his looks and style but no success, with her glassy eyes she looks like she was dead thirty years before they took this picture of her.
http://www.haifa-wehbe.ws/
Wishbone, if you handle Jason and his physco remarks I promise you an authentic Molokhia and fetta
he is the runaway bride from a famous mental hospital in Toronto
August 7th, 2006 at 11:43 pm
Twosret - I swear it next time I come to Egypt I’m sitting down for one of your Egyptian feasts. All this “chicken” and “Green Soup(?)” and “fetta” talk has got me starvin…all I’ve got is Stouffers Frozen food
I bet your dishes are delicious
You know that famous Egyptian saying “Eklaha zay shaklaha”…um, rough translation, “her food is like her looks”
Dad taught me that one.
August 7th, 2006 at 11:52 pm
Well Egypeter you might be able to eat my food without traveling that far. I live in the US
all what it takes is a bloggers get together and an arabic store 
August 8th, 2006 at 12:11 am
That’s right Twosret .. resort to cheapshots .. makes you real “manly”
And if I truly were the “runaway bride from a famous mental hospital you might have something to worry about no? please. If that’s the best you can do .. i’d suggest giving it up. I’m expecting you to invoke Godwins Law soon enough.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_Law
Seriously. If you have a logic arguement to my posts then, by all means, bring them up. If you chose to throw around various names and labels as in most of your responses to others that I’ve noticed. Then expect to get the same in return and have anything valid you may have to say to get tossed out with the trash (where your favourite “zionist” Racoony likes to hang out)
The fact that you can actually put more than 2 sentences into a post makes your attitude one more noxious than eee’s hate filled rants.
Just to make sure you haven’t missed the “love” today. You are an “intellectual” bigot. You can go wack off to whatever death porn you find most ameniable to your perverted desires. That time would actually be better spent than your lame attempts at slander me or insulting my honour.
*note: If you think you insults make me “mad” or “upset”, really all your doing is giving me a laugh.*
August 8th, 2006 at 12:14 am
Karen,
Molokhia is a national Egyptian dish, it is made of chicken broth and Jews mellow (now that is a plant not an insult to Jews lol) the scientific name Corchorus olitorius. It grows in the ground and looks like stems with leaves slightly bigger than mint. You mince it and cook it in a home made chicken broth so it looks like green soup.
You need some authentic tips about how to make Molokhia, it is very yummy and delicious despite the slimy texture. I’m not sure about the nutrition value of Molokhia but it is so delicious that I don’t care:) the protein is there in the broth anyway. Farakh is chicken and the Molokhia broth is made with different kinds of meat poultry and even fish: chicken, meat, pigeons (yes the savage Arabs eat pigeons), duck , rabbit (yes we join the savage French and eat bunnies)or even fish broth. Most people eat it with either rabbit or chicken broth.
Fetta is a very festive dish in Egypt, ingredients are simple, rice, pita bread, and chicken broth or meat broth with garlic sauce with white vinegar. As simple as it sounds it is one of the most delicious.
If ever interested in recipes I have written some and saved them for family and friends, I can e-mail you a matzo ball soup recipe too that my Jewish friends complement me on
August 8th, 2006 at 12:16 am
Ok Jason I take back the runaway bride you are the little mermaid of the arabs
http://www.haifa-wehbe.ws/haifa-wehbe-photos/view.php?gid=1&phid=4
August 8th, 2006 at 12:39 am
Twosret-
There’s really nothing to handle where Jason’s concerned mate. I respect his right to express his opinion, no less than I respect your right to do the same. The problem is that a lot of the arguments presented (by many, not just Jason) are becoming cyclic in nature: They don’t seem to be discussions as such; Rather battles of words with many and various news pieces and blog reports being presented as the be all and end all of proof of who’s right and who’s wrong.
I have my own views on this conflict, but I don’t see any point in expressing them here too strongly. From reading these threads I know for sure you’d disagree with me just as strongly, so I prefer to preemptively agree to disagree with you. Knowing how you feel, I’d be no better than the trolls if I tried to rub your nose in my opinion. Worse, it would be arrogant of me to presume, no matter how eloquent my argument, or no matter how many links I provided as proof, or whatever, that you would suddenly and miraculously be converted to my point of view.
I’d much rather, on the whole, that the fighting stopped now for the sake of both Israel and Lebanon and apportion blame later if need be.
No matter whether I disagree with you or not, you fight your corner passionately and I’ve seen you attacked for it and even told to be quiet if you didn’t like it before today. I will express a strong opinion about that
Besides that…….like the stray mutt that I am, I’ll wag my tail and fight the world for anyone that offers me a meal
August 8th, 2006 at 12:51 am
wishbone,
Thanks for your comments, Jason always jumps his gun without even understanding what he is refering to.
“Then expect to get the same in return and have anything valid you may have to say to get tossed out with the trash (where your favourite “zionist” Racoony likes to hang out)”
He is even dragging Raccoony in it without knowing who Raccoony is or what I’m refering to. To add insult to death he is calling me “manly”
“You can go wack off to whatever death porn you find most ameniable to your perverted desires. ” Jason must be anorexic for sure 
and hates food 
I’m just messing with him nothing serious wishbone, one day he will come back to his senses.
“hat time would actually be better spent than your lame attempts at slander me or insulting my honour.”
Geeeeee Jason are you sure you are not mad, lighten up dude
slander you and insulting your honour do you know how many people wish to be Haifa Wehbe I bet I’m the only one who doesn’t in this world lol 