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Wednesday, 9 Aug 2006
The "Party of God" has an ideology deeply rooted in religious beliefs.
Hezbollah fighters fight for God, for Islam - not for a country, a
nation or an independence. The fact that all Hezbollah fighters are
firm believers eases the task of their leaders - mostly muslim clerics.
The likes of Hassan Nasrallah, Naim Kassem or Nabil Kaouk are
considered by their followers as spiritual, political and military
leaders. The power of any of those leaders has a divine dimension.
Their recommendations are orders, and any attack or criticism of their
persons is an anti-islam violation. We still all remember how Hezbollah
partisans invaded the Christian districts of Beirut (Ashrafieh - Ain el
Remmaneh - Sodeco) and attacked everything around them while cursing
Samir Geagea, the Lebanese Forces, the Lebanese Broadcasting
Corporation (LBC), but most importantly - they did not mind cursing
Christian Holy Saints and even Jesus Christ. All this happened because
Hassan Nasrallah was imitated in Bassmet el Watan show on LBC. For
their leaders, Hezbollah followers are ready to attack co-citizens, to
break cars and shops… and to burn a country.Hassan Nasrallah
and local Hezbollah leaders are not the only personalities with whom
shia Lebanese fighters identify. The commitment of Hezbollah fighters
goes beyond the Lebanese boundaries: Shia spiritual leaders in both
Iraq and Iran are also people admired and followed by the Lebanese
Shias - the majority of whom have either Iraqi or Irani origins (Hassan
Nasrallah himself is Iraqi by origin).
Muqtada el Sader, Ali el
Sistani or Ali Khamenei have surely more influence on Hezbollah
fighters than any non-Shia Lebanese official. That is what shows that
the war of Hezbollah is a religious one - not a patriotic one.If
serving the Shia Islam interest requires attacking Israel, then
Hezbollah would do that. Even if all Lebanon would be burned because of
those attacks, Hezbollah would not stop them; because Lebanon is not
the "end product" that Hezbollah wants to defend - The Shia Islam is.It
would not matter if Siniora's government looses: it will be another
loss for democracy, another loss for the West, another loss for the US
in their fight against Teheran. Hezbollah is fighting for Iran against
the US on Lebanese soil.
This War really won't end well!
August 9th, 2006 at 9:06 am
The Real Fight of Hezbollah
Scary!!!
August 9th, 2006 at 9:20 am
so it’s a good thing there’s no end in sight, eh?
August 9th, 2006 at 10:34 am
weren’t some of the Hezbollah suicide bombers back in the 80s Christian? guess we need to wait for the international force to arrive to see that again…
August 9th, 2006 at 11:08 am
.. my knee-jerk reaction to the extract above was it’s another sign Lebanon is heading into civil war, with sectarian boundaries hardening, but the blog article in full counters that impression..
..the writer is setting out to challenge the ’street view’ that ‘we’re all Hezbollah now’, trying to put Lebanon above factions, and many of the commentators agree. Whatever u think on the ‘is Hezbollah acting on nationalist instincts or as Iranian-puppet’ debate (see comments on lebop), it actually offers hope that a re-run of the 1980s is not inevitable
August 9th, 2006 at 12:55 pm
> challenge the ’street view’ that ‘we’re all Hezbollah now’
C.G (the writer of the article) is a Lebanese Forces sympathizer.
So the street view of the Lebanese Forces that he can try to challenge, if he wants to challenge anything, is “We are all Israelis now and we want to kill all the arabs because we are Christian Phonecians and those Muslim and arabs are nothign but plague”
Or as they commonly say on the street ” El 3arab jarab w ne7na fini’yeh ”
Last time too (in 1982) they not only cheered but helped the Israeli invasion, maybe a rerun is inevitable but things are heading in the same direction so far.
Minus the amount of arms in the hands of non Hezbollah militias , which imho is the only good thing about the whole issue.
August 9th, 2006 at 3:08 pm
Anonymous Leb - I’m pretty sure this time the IDF will not be welcomed with rice and flowers… unless they are somehow ment to cause severe constipation.
August 9th, 2006 at 3:10 pm
It is quite clear that the hezboolah terrorists are merely lackeys/servants of iran, and are fighting a war against israel on their behalf.
The only positive outcome to this conflict would be for iran and syria’s criminal dictatorships to be de-capitated, either by israel, or by it and others.
I strenuously favor a widening of this war to include these paramount, existential goals, as there will never, ever be peace in the middle east so long as these 2 criminal dictatorships of thugs and murderers are in place.
August 9th, 2006 at 4:44 pm
The problem of Lebanon is that there is sense of Nationality. To be Lebanese does not come first. First you have your clan/family, then your religious sub-group/group, then your political affiliation then and only then LEBANON. So how can you create a sense of national pride where there is no Nation. Sorry my friends but that is the sad truth. If you add the demagogy of the “arab” street to all this, then you end up with something very … very sad…
August 9th, 2006 at 4:44 pm
[...] Here is another excellent piece on The real fight of hezbollah, with another tip of the hat to the Sandmonkey. [...]
August 9th, 2006 at 5:09 pm
Its really easy to claim Iran and syria are fighting the U.S on Lebanese soil and you can easily argue it but its unfortunately far from the truth. The truth is all Hizbollah fighters are pure lebanese, they’re all from the south, and they are all part of a southern lebanese population that has endured deaths, torture and all other kinda shit from the Isreali’s over 25 years. Thats why when u see people saying they are ready to die for Nasrallah its not cuz they’re not as educated as u guys, or havent gone to an American highschool, but its because he is the only person that gives them the dignity to stand up to the people that killed their children and family. Isreal and America have an arrogance problem. The stupid bush mentality of lets kill those damn terrorists will never solve shit. A resistance (even if they are an evil force using the identity of a resistance as a pretext to destroy all jews) can never be kicked out. Its not like they’re Taliban fighters that are gonna pick up their guns and go back to wherever the fuck they came from. All Isreal has to do is give back the occupied land ( which is nothing) the damn Lebanese inmates and that would be a much more effective weapon. Too bad this fantasy of defeating Iran has dragged Isreal into a situation where the resistence might probably go on forever.
August 9th, 2006 at 6:27 pm
Well yes Born the average Hezbollah fighter is Lebanese, but they certainly didn’t get all those rockets in their inheritances…. so unless they’re all fighting with sticks and stones I highly doubt you’ll ever convince anyone that there is no ‘ulterior’ collaborator with the Hezbollah leadership.
August 9th, 2006 at 6:29 pm
And anyone that claims beating the snot out of anyone won’t/can’t change their beliefs? Worked in Japan. Worked in Germany.
August 9th, 2006 at 6:39 pm
Born, The problem with sitting meekly while Hezb’Allah attacks is that this “paper tiger” image leads to further attacks. The Marines pulling out of Lebanon in the 1980’s and the US pulling out of Mogadishu in the 90’s have both been sited by terrorists as reasons they feel free to attack.
Unfortunately, that part of the world has more respect for strong men than for honourable men. Until that changes, the region is doomed.
It is unfortunate that Arabs get all their dignity from endlessly fighting Israel. How far the Arabs have fallen from their 7th century renaissance. It’s pathetic.
August 9th, 2006 at 7:20 pm
anonon…
i dont have an arab ideology or one that loves fighting..but listen to urself..u have no idea wat ur talking bout. Hizbullah isnt attacking the helpless, weak and opressed Isreali nation. This whole situation didnt start 4 weeks ago, its started more than 20 years ago wen Isreal decided to invade lebanon. Its like sayin that wen the US invaded Vietnam the vietnamese guerillas were terrorists and they are to blame for “Attacking” the americans while they were being occupied. You have to understand who the true aggressor is. If Isreal fucks off trust me..lebanese people are not vengeful and dont wanna kill the jews of the world. Best way to destroy a resistance is to end the occupation. (a true end not a UN blue line that means nothing)
August 9th, 2006 at 7:46 pm
I’ve been reading reports that the Lebanese army has been “waving through” munitions being sent in from Iran via Syria. Makes the whole “poor Lebanese are innocents trapped between two powerful armies” meme a lot harder to assimilate.
I wish Israel would bomb Syria - nothing devastating, just take out the air force and then ask Assad if he’d like to parley. The air campaign has been detrimental to Israel’s efforts in Lebanon, but I think it could do some serious work in Syria. And until they push Syria, nothing will change. Wars of attrition are the worst kind.
And Born? That’d make a whole lot more sense if Israel had actually been occupying Lebanon one month ago. And don’t tell me “Sheba Farms” cos I have a headache and it hurts to laugh.
August 9th, 2006 at 7:48 pm
Born: You say this didn’t start 4 weeks ago .. but back in 82 .. Did Israel invade then for absolutely no reason? Did it? Or are you just going to conviently forget the “why” of that? Also there were precursors of Islamic groups before Hezbollah was formally established. Jordan did the right thing when the PLO threatened it’s stability (disregarding any commentary on the Jordanian government). Lebanon was either unwilling or unable to do anything about the PLO leading to Israels invasion then. Kinda similar to now don’t ya think.
August 9th, 2006 at 8:20 pm
Born-as-a-SHI3I - you actually make a good point. infact this is the first time I hear a good point from the other side of the border in 5 weeks. but….
first of all, about the shiba farms, for some reason they are shown as a syrian territories on the maps (I understand this is due to some british error while making the borders between lebanon and syria, but the syrian seem to like it). it’s impossible for israel to return syrian territory to lebanon - they should work out things with syria first.
secondly, there are only 3 lebanonesse prisoners in israel now, most notably, samir kuntar. the only way to release them is if ron arad is happen to be alive and well. no ron arad - no samir kuntar. it’s actually pretty fair.
I personly think hizballa was not at all intrested in this war right now. it wanted achivments to strenghten itself in the inner lebanonesse areana. if he had managed to bring the release of samir kuntar and the return of the shiba farms, by next ellections in lebanon nasralla would be priminster, and the shiei revolution would take over lebanon.
yes, hizballa was created by the israeli occupation of south lebanon, but we had good reasons to go in back in 82. it took us too long to get out, but once we did, we have no intention to tolerate any violation of our border.
to conclusion: while I agree the release of lebanonesse prisoners and the return of shiba farms are legitimate causes, they should be handled by the lebanonesse goverment, not hizballa, and certainly not by kidnaping soldiers and then shooting missiles on third of israel. if hizballa offered ron arad, it would get samir kuntar. if the goverment offered a peace agreement and the removal of hizballa from the south - they would have got shiba farms.
instead we got 100 israelis dead, a million more in shelters, a 1000 lebanonesse dead and their country riped apart.
August 9th, 2006 at 8:30 pm
Nadav,
Good points all.
one thing to add: in kidnapping the two soldiers, Hezb killed several others. that is an internationally accepted act of war - in this case, against Israel.
I was all for Hezb (sorry, I choke on the “Allah” part) when they were “freedom fighters” in occupied Lebanon. But Lebanon is no longer occupied. And Hezb has shifted its aim (or at least the militia has) to the irradication of Israel for the “dignity” of Islamofascists. Hezb brings no dignity at all.
I still have no problem with Hezb as a pol party - not an armed militia. If Lebanon has a problem, it is up to the government to solve it - not a random, half crazed militia.
August 9th, 2006 at 8:52 pm
“some british error ” no some french error - syria and lebanon were cut out of the french mandate
on samir kuntar, maybe some kinda deal that would see him remain in a lebanese jail? is that possible?
August 9th, 2006 at 9:19 pm
“some british error ” no some french error - syria and lebanon were cut out of the french mandate
Ahh…..the usual culprits! I think Hezb should attack france next. It’ll be fun to watch them surrender.
August 9th, 2006 at 9:21 pm
well really.. it’s all the ottomans fault.. if only they’d sided with the british/french and not the germans in WWI …
August 9th, 2006 at 9:21 pm
PS knowing the french… HA would win
August 9th, 2006 at 9:24 pm
This is hillarious, check it out:
http://www.mahjoob.com/en/friends/sendtofriends.php?cartoonid=1882
The rocket launchers are Katyusha rocket launchers, and the soldier is the great Shamshon
August 9th, 2006 at 9:28 pm
Born-as-a-SHI3I,
The USA/Israel have put themselves in a corner by labeling everyone against them as a terrorist. Doing so of course justifies killing the ‘terrorist’, but it also FORCES the governments to kill ‘terrorists’ when the governments would rather be doing something else.
It is a pretty stupid nomenclature to call Hizballah a terrorist organization. It is a commando-gurreilla army that is a by-product of occupation.
August 9th, 2006 at 9:29 pm
Yup, Jason, that was my point. At least the “irradication of France” would be an achievable objective.
>
Yeah, I notice that it’s a regional habit to always blame someone else for your problems. It’s always someone else’s fault. It’s never the fault of the Arabs - they are always the poor and the oppressed. Thus, I guess the Arabs are calling themselves morons? Too stupid to take control of their own destiny? Waiting for America to stop backing their dictators - can’t do it themselves? I think people like Sandmonkey just don’t buy into that stupidity. Wish there were more of them.
Take the current conflict: no killed and kidnapped soldiers, no crushing of Lebanon. Simple. Simple, that is, if you don’t live in the ME.
August 9th, 2006 at 9:32 pm
Nadav
Yea i agree with u..
and even though Im from the south I do not want Hizbollah to be armed..we’ve had enough wars.
BUT
Isreal and the States cant deal with everything by their usual cowboy lets kill em all routine. Defeating hizbollah now and through force will not eliminate them. But this just gives Isreal a couple of years break before another resistance forms again. End this once and for all..kill the root of the problem
If Isreal pulls out of the Shabaa farms…lebanese, syrian sweedish who gives a fuck..just pull out (why keep it as an excuse for Hizbolla’s legitimacy)…and release the 3 leb guys (even though Samir Kontar isnt a POW but a convicted murderer) ALL of Lebanon including the shiites would turn against the Hizb having weopons. After all the deaths and destruction, dont u think any Isreali would release Kountar if it would result in lasting peace.
Isreal must take the initiative…and if then anyone, IRAN Syria or anyone wants to fight Isreal through lebanon…the World, AND ALL the LEBANESE will fight that war with Isreal.
Pulling out of occupied land is not a defeat..releasing the prisoners and giving back the map of mines is not a defeat for Isreal. Cuz peace is a victory. But unfortunately we are dealing with arrogance, and as long as the US feels instability in the ME is victory for Isreal there will never be peace.
August 9th, 2006 at 9:45 pm
does running away count as surrender? :p
August 9th, 2006 at 9:49 pm
Isreal and the States cant deal with everything by their usual cowboy lets kill em all routine. Defeating hizbollah now and through force will not eliminate them.
Well if the end result of this IS the disarming of HA don’t you think that makes you wrong and not their tactics? How do you know this whole thing wasn’t to “force” “reasonable” (french reasonable lololololol) people to take action to make that goal come about?
If the US truly thought an Iraq thing was the answer why didn’t they just up and invade Lebanon themselves? Heck I think Rhode Island itself coulda done the job.
August 9th, 2006 at 9:50 pm
“If Isreal pulls out of the Shabaa farms…lebanese, syrian sweedish who gives a fuck..just pull out (why keep it as an excuse for Hizbolla’s legitimacy)…and release the 3 leb guys (even though Samir Kontar isnt a POW but a convicted murderer) ALL of Lebanon including the shiites would turn against the Hizb having weopons. After all the deaths and destruction, dont u think any Isreali would release Kountar if it would result in lasting peace.”
Born, that is so naive I just don’t know what to say.
Hezb has set its sights on irradicating Israel - as it has publicly stated.. Even if Israel does all those things, Hezb will find something else that is offending its “dignity”.
Do you honestly think that Arabs (or more to the point, Muslims) will suddenly start fighting on Israel’s behalf? It is you who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
August 9th, 2006 at 9:57 pm
well u tell me…wat would be better
disarming Hizbolla by Isreal taking the initiative and creating good relations with lebanon…US effect internally would also grow
OR
kill more than a thousand, more than a million displaced and homeless…more than three thousand injured..and a whole lotta people that dont like the US and Isreal too much.
and plus..if an international force comes in to disarm Hizbolla a civil war would break out in Lebanon, and thats why it wouldnt happen. The only way to disarm them has to be internally.
Everyone keeps thinkin Hizbolla is just a militant group. More than a million Lebanese are Hizbolla..
U can nuke us..that would solve the problem once and for all
August 9th, 2006 at 10:03 pm
born .. this whole we don’t like you thing.. how many didn’t like us after the cartoons? hmm? after iraq invasion? hmm? it’s not like everyone was all lovey dovey beforehand either.
what exactly is so bad with an international force? one lacking the presense especially of americans and that does have the presence of muslim countries (at least one, turkey)?? Please explain the hostility there.
Also Lebanon at the beginning of all this was “whining” that they were just not powerful enough to do anything more than talk with hezbollah. What exactly has changed there? You can’t expect your enemy to just unilaterally trust you, AGAIN. (even if only in their eyes). Give some thing concrete, not just “give us everything” and trust us.
There is a reason over here that we say “Famous last words: “Trust Me”"
August 9th, 2006 at 10:04 pm
Hey don’t tempt “us” with that nuke thing .. there are many who would be quite satisfied with that happening.
August 9th, 2006 at 10:05 pm
Jason man, this is no way to discuss things. You are not really putting a strong argument together, you are ranting.
Put your thoughts together in a comprehensive framework, dont give us snipets of your genius that, when put together, make no sense.
August 9th, 2006 at 10:05 pm
Also don’t you think that if the army was to attempt to disarm HA that a civil war would break out too?
Of course most likely is that they wouldn’t even attempt it for that fear exactly.
August 9th, 2006 at 10:08 pm
“Its really easy to claim Iran and syria are fighting the U.S on Lebanese soil and you can easily argue it but its unfortunately far from the truth.”
Its a known fact. Most if not all of Hez were trained, paid for, suplied with, and driven to war, by iran.
“The truth is all Hizbollah fighters are pure lebanese, they’re all from the south, and they are all part of a southern lebanese population that has endured deaths, torture and all other kinda shit from the Isreali’s over 25 years.”
When Arafat’s PLO were killing shitloads of shia, and setting up roadblocks in southern lebanon, collecting taxes and fees from the shia, did you rise up against THEM?
‘Thats why when u see people saying they are ready to die for Nasrallah its not cuz they’re not as educated as u guys, ”
Thats exactly why, because they are too stupid to know how badly they are being used.
“If Isreal pulls out of the Shabaa farms…lebanese, syrian sweedish”
Cmon already with this nonsense.
We all know how dictatorships/fascists manufacture excuses. Next it will be the 7 towns in the North Hezz claims as part of lebanon that israel would have to vacate, then it would be something else after that, etc. etc.
And how come the shia, so enraged over 3 prisoners held in israel, give a total and complete pass to Syria - who has fucking THOUSANDS of leabanese - including shia - prisoners in ITS jails?
August 9th, 2006 at 10:13 pm
The truth is all Hizbollah fighters are pure lebanese
Many of whom are from Iran, trained by the IRGA, and travel to Iran. But, yes, they are now Lebanese citizens.
August 9th, 2006 at 10:15 pm
Isreal and the States cant deal with everything by their usual cowboy lets kill em all routine.
We haven’t actually tried that one yet. You should be careful with fantasy belief systems because they can come back to haunt you.
August 9th, 2006 at 10:22 pm
So what have we here, a little crack in the perfect US/Israel monolith ?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060809/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_mideast
August 9th, 2006 at 10:25 pm
hehe..
come on now..many palestinians buy their guns and weopons from Isrealis and thats a known fact..does that make em Isreali fighters or do we then consider it Isreal’s conspiracy against Isreal.
anyway..i give up..i feel like im gettin gangbanged over here
but just a final word..i live in the states (Im currently VACATIONING in lebanon)..but Im officially from Khiam.
And let me tell u people dont hate for no reason or cuz theyre ignorant. Wen Isreal invaded it was cuz of PLO true, but u have no idea wat went on in those villages and wat they let the Southern Lebanese Army do. I have family that was locked up in the Khiam prison that were locked up for 17 years and more. People were kicked out of their homes, mass killings took place, masacres and all that shit..
That means nothin now, and people move on. Its war I understand.
but even though arabs will never get anywhere cuz all they care about is their stomach, money and gettin ass…that doesnt mean that Isreal is a victim and to us it will never be.
but watever…gotta go eat and masterbate (sorry we dont have any electricity to invite my gf over)
anyway..no more..i love u all children of god (or some shit like that)
August 9th, 2006 at 10:43 pm
Born-as-a-SHI3I,
if the arab world could unite and speak with one voice, we could reach some sort of agreement in the line of what the saudis suggested a few years back; an independete phalestinian state and israeli withdral from all occupied territories in exchange for normalization with all arab countries. this is the best, and only, solution for all the problems in our middle east.
unfortuenly, there are a few problems with this arangment:
1. obviously we can’t decide on the borders of the new phalestine… 67`, 48` or something in between? not too mention there is no solution in sight for the refugees problem.
2. the arab world cannot speak with one, united voice. but maybe, if we make them a good enough deal, we can get the syrians to drift away from iran in the direction of egypt and saudi arabia. but…
3. unlike the shiba farms, that don’t have any strategic importence and are kept mainly as a negotiation card, the golan hights are extremely influential on israel’s security. I can’t imagine us giving it back to syria, especially in light of what hizballa is doing to us now. we don’t trust bashar asad, or the stability of his reign, so getting syria on the boat of this agreement will be very hard. and if syria won’t play along, they’ll make sure lebanon dosn’t either.
4. and then there’s iran, with which we have no direct conflict, and we really have nothing to give or negotiate with them. they are definitly not gonna sit idely by and watch us make peace with our neighbores. another dead end.
5. and finally, our good friends al-quaida, or any other extremist group for that matter. I know most arabs want peace just like we do, but it only takes a crazed minority to send everything down in spirals. a few well placed, well timed mega explosions, and we’re back in square one.
well, things don’t look too promising, do they… it takes alot more guts and courage to make peace than to wage war. it’s funny; as israelis we are tought from age 0 that peace is the most wonderful thing, the ultimate victory, and we must strive to achive it no matter what. we tell our kids “by the time you grow up there won’t be wars and there won’t be an army”, but then they turn 18 and enlist, and every 10 years we find ourselves fighthing a new war, wondering how the hell did it happen to us, again. 6 years ago we were on top of the world, leaving cursed (sorry..) lebanon once and for all, and now look at us.
I do belive israel is mostly right in it’s actions along the years, but apperently, we’re not very smart.
(p.s please excuse any typos and spelling mistakes, as I am half asleep)
August 9th, 2006 at 10:52 pm
i love that mosh pit bit
August 9th, 2006 at 10:58 pm
maybe we can all unite, arabs and jews (and possibly even persians) and kick some french bootie.
August 9th, 2006 at 11:17 pm
Just read this in The Australian:
“MEMBERS of Iran’s Revolutionary Guard have been found among Hezbollah guerrillas slain by Israeli forces in southern Lebanon”
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20078951-1702,00.html
I’m waiting for more information for accuracy but this seems to destroy anyones belief that Iran isn’t involved. Also stating the Hezbollah are purely Lebanese protecting Lebanon looks a bit shaky with this information.
August 9th, 2006 at 11:20 pm
Coming from the Israelis it will be dismissed by all but the pro-Israel crowd
August 9th, 2006 at 11:29 pm
Here is some information on how Hezbollah was able to source is rockets; Lebanese Armed Forces don’t get a good rap in this article:
“TWELVE trucks crossed the Syrian border into Lebanon and rumbled south. When they were stopped at a checkpoint a few days later, the Lebanese Armed Forces found the trucks were brimming with ammunition and weapons, including Katyusha rockets that have been raining down on Israel since July 12.
What happened next, in this little-reported incident in late January, goes to the heart of the conflict between Israel and Lebanon. The convoy was waved on and travelled unhindered to its final destination: Hezbollah terrorists in southern Lebanon.”
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20876,20074368-28737,00.html
August 9th, 2006 at 11:31 pm
yea..
hehe…lets not get too excited..even though i did meet Isrealis wen i went to Cyprus..nice people..pretty girls
thats not the point
the point is…lebanon has its first pro-US government..and for some reason that got us in a worst position than a syrian run one..
no one wants the syrians back..but there is a major problem in the US foreign policy..first day bush asks Isreal to get rid of HIzbollah but not weaken the government..wat kinda retarded shit is that..how can u attack half a nation and then claim that u support the government. cuz of that the government is losin credebility and nasrallah is gainin followers.
This war has achieved nothing. Not even one of Isreal’s primary goals has been accomplished and its been a month of devestation. Its pointless.
And Im living here…and i promise u..the way things are goin hizbollah doesnt seem to be goin anywhere anytime soon
August 9th, 2006 at 11:31 pm
yea..
hehe…lets not get too excited..even though i did meet Isrealis wen i went to Cyprus..nice people..pretty girls
thats not the point
the point is…lebanon has its first pro-US government..and for some reason that got us in a worst position than a syrian run one..
no one wants the syrians back..but there is a major problem in the US foreign policy..first day bush asks Isreal to get rid of HIzbollah but not weaken the government..wat kinda retarded shit is that..how can u attack half a nation and then claim that u support the government. cuz of that the government is losin credebility and nasrallah is gainin followers.
This war has achieved nothing. Not even one of Isreal’s primary goals has been accomplished and its been a month of devestation. Its pointless.
There has to be a change in the approach to these problems
August 9th, 2006 at 11:46 pm
Born,
What would be better for Israel is if Hezb is at least weakened.
What would be better for the Arabs is if they give up the Nazi-style talk of killing the Jews where they find them, the blood curse, and killing the “sons of Apes and Pigs”, etc. That just rots the Arabs and hardens America’s and Irael’s position. Plus…it’s bull and it makes Arabs look like a**holes.
What would be better for the Lebanese supporters of Hezb is to disarm them and concentrate on building a strong Lebanese army and government. As I said, Hezb as a political group is fine.
Only then can we get around to solving the bigger issue - the Palestinians. These poor people deserve a state and a permanent home by now!! They are always the ones getting screwed.
That’s what I think would be better.
I don’t think that will happen because if you solve Lebanon and Palestine, then the Arab public will turn to their REAL problems - the autocrats who run their lives and choke the life out of them. With the Israel problem solved, the American government will likely turn to pressuring these other Arab governments to become democracies. Democracies are more stable and, thus, better for the US (wars are expensive and time consuming). Mubarak can’t have THAT now can he?
August 9th, 2006 at 11:49 pm
#24
Kuntar killed a 10 year old girl by smashing her skull in with a rifle butt, after shooting her father in front of her in cold blood.
Maybe one of the arabs/islamists here can tell me exactly how allah condoned this murder of innocents.
I am all for releasing pieces of kuntar. A liver today, a heart tomorrow. Let his organs be harvested to help save lives as a way for him to pay for his grisely crimes. Give all the organs to arabs for all I care.
But releasing Kuntar alive and in one piece? Never. He is a criminal, a murderer. Anyone rejoicing in his crimes is as despicable as he is.
It is a shame that Israel does not have a death penalty. This is one animal who desparately needs to be put down. It is a crime that jews pay taxes to feed this slime.
August 10th, 2006 at 12:03 am
anonon..
ur completely right. i understand. but that still does not justify destroying half a country..9/11 was two buildings and i dont wanna even though death is always ugly this is half a nation…just like with Iraq, no one was against the fact that he’s a dick and a dictator..but the approach is always wrong..im not a politician but there are always other methods..anyway
goodnight guys
goin to the states tomorow..and im leaving through syria
so if y’all see a masacre in the news and they claim it was a bus full of hizbollah militants…remember that by that they are claimin that all lebanese citizens from the south are hezbollah..
ciao
August 10th, 2006 at 12:32 am
> Hezbollah is fighting for Iran against the US on Lebanese soil.
Bullshit.
Israel kills and and fights Iran for the US on Lebanese soil.
August 10th, 2006 at 12:42 am
how, eee? By kidnapping Hezb “soldiers” from across the boarder?
Oh….no…wait…..that was Hezb.
August 10th, 2006 at 12:42 am
Born don’t even go there. Those 2 buildings comprise a hell of a lot more real estate than that entire beirut neighbourhood. the next worth of damage to all of Lebanon is pegged at 2.1$ billion (by Siniora) those 2 buildings were valued how much? i’d take a guess at being about the same
Look at how much whining there has been out of Lebanon over less than 1000 civilian deaths and around 1000 total dead
3000+ dead in just those 2 buildings plus the planes etc…
That article posted by Peter-Australia shows just how much a ‘Friend” of the USA, Lebanon really is. Your casual dismissal, kinda like the palis dancin in the streets, of just 2 buildings, and you wonder WHY exactly your not getting much sympathy? And when you REALLY think about it.. those 2 buildings enabled Iraq and Afghanistan .. and hell Lebanon. So don’t be so blaise as to think well it was only 2 buildings…
*this from a canadian .. imagine what an american would say to you
August 10th, 2006 at 12:44 am
“This is one animal who desparately needs to be put down. It is a crime that jews pay taxes to feed this slime.”
Kranky, it’s a crime that ANYONE should pay taxes to keep this animal alive.
He’s just a run of the mill blood thirsty murderer. I’m amazed anyone wants him back so that he can do that to another family.
But then….we ARE talking about Hezbollah!!
August 10th, 2006 at 12:51 am
Born,
I live in Manhattan and those were not just 2 buildings. It was all of lower Manhattan. Incidentally, at least large four buildings went down and all of the smaller buildings surrounding the twin towers on the plaza.
Scraping out the likes of Saddam Insane was always going to involve bloodshed - whether it was done by Arabs or by Americans. But more blood has been spilled by Arab on Arab fighting than the Americans ever inflicted in Iraq.
Afghanistan is a nightmare from start to finish. The Taliban had to come down for the good of Afghanistan.
You have a very idealistic view of the world: If only we can talk sense into these Saddams and Bin Ladens and Ahmad Jihad, then they would stop. They are not like you, Born. They are crazy. And they hide among civilians, so to fight them you have to fight in civilian quarters. But that means that THEY are killing civilians - not the Israelis and not the Americans.
When will the Arab Street rise up against these militias hiding in their basements? When will the Arabs demand that they take the fight out of their living room?
Have a safe trip.
August 10th, 2006 at 12:56 am
eh…I left out that there was no military stuff in the towers. It was purely an assault on civilians.
Also, if they weren’t expecting the full force of retaliation by the United States then they simply miscalculated. The US is no paper tiger. If you go looking for war, you’ll generally find it.
If you (universal “you”) chose and unachievable objective, don’t come crying to mommy when you get your ass handed to you.
Hezb brought THIS war to its own country. The Arabs need to realize that and Hezb needs to be held responsible. If that doesn’t happen, don’t even bother rebuilding Lebanon. Unfortunately, another war will break out.
August 10th, 2006 at 1:18 am
There wasn’t even one Lebanese national of the 9/11 hijackers what are you guys talking about here ?!
I love the way you group people to make a point (very bad one)!
August 10th, 2006 at 1:24 am
nadav,
maybe we can all unite, arabs and jews (and possibly even persians) and kick some french bootie.
Great food, scenery, and the girls are spectacular. I’m on board. Start in Germany and go through Belgium and the Ardennes. It works every time.
August 10th, 2006 at 1:28 am
Do we control Israel or does Israel control us?
I can’t keep that straight.
August 10th, 2006 at 1:45 am
http://news.sky.com/skynews/video/videoplayer/0,,31200-galloway_060806,00.html
August 10th, 2006 at 1:54 am
see the truth: if you think that’s the truth i got some amazing land in florida i’d like to sell you at a steal of a price
August 10th, 2006 at 1:57 am
Twosret, Born as a shiite brought it up, dissing 3000 dead while bemoaning 1000 dead in Lebanon .. anything he gets is well deserved now
August 10th, 2006 at 1:58 am
“When will the Arab Street rise up against these militias hiding in their basements?”
maybe when they learn the cost not do so outweighs the cost to do so
August 10th, 2006 at 3:34 am
“Hezb brought THIS war to its own country. The Arabs need to realize that and Hezb needs to be held responsible. If that doesn’t happen, don’t even bother rebuilding Lebanon. Unfortunately, another war will break out.”
I strenuously disagree.
This war has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with lebanon; its syria and iran fighting israel - and moving the int’l community’s attention off of syria for the hariri murder and iran’s nuclear weapons program.
August 10th, 2006 at 6:21 am
I wouldn’t say it has absolutely nothing to do with Lebanon.
I might agree that it has nothing to do with the non-shiite Lebanese.
I would agree that it is not in Lebanon’s long-term interest to keep provoking its neighbor to the south.
But its been said many times here that the Hesbollah fighters are largely Lebanese, and get a fair amount of support (whether active or tacit) from the surrounding community of shiites.
FWIW, they are also part of the Lebanese government.
So while I’ll grant that it’s not in Lebanon’s interest to keep fighting, they are not exactly blameless. Maybe they are being used by the Iranians and the Syrians, but not entirely without their consent.
Incidentally, and somewhat OT, the very same people at work who had told me that the Iraqis could have overthrown Saddam if they wanted to, are now saying that the Lebanese cannot be blamed for Hezbollah’s actions because they COULDN’T POSSIBLY disarm them. LOL!
August 10th, 2006 at 6:24 am
anonon Says:
August 10th, 2006 at 12:42 am
how, eee? By kidnapping Hezb “soldiers” from across the boarder?
Oh….no…wait…..that was Hezb
Never let the facts interfere with a good argument!
August 10th, 2006 at 7:11 am
I have a gun somebody gave me for the purpose of shooting Mr. Foo. From inside a group of unarmed “friends”, I shoot and inflict a minor injury on Mr. Foo, who I know is armed with a better gun than mine. Mr. Foo shoots back and injures me worse, and also injures or kills some of my “friends”.
My “friends” decide I’m their hero, and hang upon my words. Not only am I their hero, they are really mad at Mr. Foo for shooting back. The whole neighborhood is in an uproar because Mr. Foo shot back.
It seems the above scenario makes sense to somebody, but not me. Even if Mr. Foo and I have some really bad history, what makes sense is to let the past be the past, ignore him, and get a life. Especially if it’s obvious Mr. Foo doesn’t really want to fight with me, has tried to make reparations, and is more interested in other things.
If I were one of the “friends”, I know who I’d be pi**ed off at.
August 10th, 2006 at 8:40 am
Born-as-a-SHI3I Says –
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/09/AR2006080901474.html
“Members of Iran’s Revolutionary Guard have been found among Hizbollah guerrillas slain by Israeli forces in southern Lebanon, Israel’s Channel 10 television reported on Wednesday citing diplomatic sources.
It said the Iranians were identified by documents found on their bodies, but gave no further details on how many were discovered or when. Neither the Israeli military nor Hizbollah representatives in Beirut had immediate comment on the report.”
Is this report lying, then?
August 10th, 2006 at 8:43 am
From a foreign point of view, it looks like a never ending story. Such a complex puzzle. 20 years old revenge, religious divisions, foreign interest interference, honor, territory claims, prisonners, kidnapped soldiers, God armies, treasons, murders, political murders, xenophoby, orpheans, invasions and the list goes on.
When you look at all these keywords, the result is chaos.
The future of Lebanon is in the hands of these pragmatic and hardworkers people. They should take the power back as fast as they can. These lost souls are devastating their lives.
August 10th, 2006 at 12:09 pm
”
U can nuke us..that would solve the problem once and for all”
A fascinating proposal… and an almost inevitable one, in the long run (with “us” defined somewhat differently). The other solution is total reform of the Islamic world, which is about as likely as aliens coming about in little flying saucers and creating peace on Earth with weird rays of Bodhisatwa energy.
Merry Nuclear Holocaust, everyone!
August 10th, 2006 at 1:25 pm
born as a shiei,
“so if y’all see a masacre in the news and they claim it was a bus full of hizbollah militants…remember that by that they are claimin that all lebanese citizens from the south are hezbollah..”
I seem to remember that a few comments ago you yourself said that hizballa is not just a few hundred fighters, but the entire south.
the south shall rise again…
BTW, speaking of 9\11 - the rummor is hizballa was really upset at al-quaida for that, because they brought attention to the whole “sleeping cells” thing, that hizballa invested alot in creating. I guess al-quaida would be upset too if hizballa was the first to act.
August 10th, 2006 at 2:46 pm
Bottom line is this….
If Hezb behaves like a political party, the US will pour endless money into rebuilding Lebanon. It’s in the interest of the US that Lebanon has a democracy, a free market and rule of law and it’s in Israel’s interest. The biggest beneficiary of this would be Lebanon.
if only that could happen….
August 10th, 2006 at 8:42 pm
nadav anomon chip, cheap theories
maybe we can all unite, arabs and jews (and possibly even persians) and kick some french bootie.
Great food, scenery, and the girls are spectacular. I’m on board. Start in Germany and go through Belgium and the Ardennes. It works every time.
great neocon scenario as usual ! anyways you are too con for issuing any good, every state in the world have the opportunity to watch your poor achievement
August 11th, 2006 at 12:48 am
Zionism is a disease, which transforms jews in perfect liare.
> By kidnapping Hezb “soldiers” from across the boarder?
Perfect?
www_dailystar_com_lb/article.asp?edition_id=1&categ_id=2&article_id=21930
No need for a nation of beggars, thieves and murderers.
August 11th, 2006 at 2:50 am
eee- Pure evil. Being full of hate and blinded by it. Poisonous, harmful and extemely unpleasant. Can iduce cancer if licked by it. Vile. Belonging to another era. Nazi.