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- The sandmonkey question
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- 1) The 7 rules of the APU
- 2) Religious Tolerance in Egypt
- 3) No wonder
- 4) Story of the Protest part1 and
- part 2
- 5) What do we actually want from the west
- 6) Rocking it with Ayman Nour
- 7) A small government is a beautiful thing
- 8) To be or not to be NDP
- 9) 10 things I love about Egypt
- 10) It wasn’t about the Oil stupid
- 11) My explanation for the Iraq War
- 12) Religious Tolerance in Egypt Responses
- 13) Koran Desecration and other forms of Hypocrisy
- 14) The Sandmonkey airport incident part 1 and
- part 2
- 15) The numbers tell the story
- Jyland Posten
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- Honorable Non-mention
August 10th, 2006 at 10:56 pm
The first and greatest commandment is “You shall love God with your whole heart, and mind and soul. And the second is like it: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
I feel really strange being so far away, and being addressed in loving tones by people who clearly do not love their neighbor right across the border.
August 10th, 2006 at 10:59 pm
Israel should stop the occupation of lebanon. Only then will muslims stop gangraping 12 year old girls while videotaping it in Europe and Australia.
August 10th, 2006 at 11:18 pm
It’s a nice bit of heartfelt propaganda. I wish the Israelis were as good at it. How about a video that acknowledges that the Lebanese wholesale support of terrorists pupeteered by Iran and Syria brought this on their heads!
I have never seen Arab concern over harm to Israelis or Jews - ever.
August 10th, 2006 at 11:19 pm
Touching to creeps.
August 11th, 2006 at 12:34 am
To those it may concern.
Whenever there is a sad, touching post on here, no matters whose interest it is in, I can always count on someone on here trying to pervert it, to skew the reality of someone elses suffering. I, like anyone else who watches this video, is completely ignorant of the political opinions of the people featured here. They deserve the benefit of doubt from I and everyone else, that they are as they have been presented, as unfortunate people whose lives have been disrupted by war.
To cast your own bias on these people as “terrorists” or supporters of, is ignorant bigotry. Its an unfair and cruel stereotype equivilant to calling all Jews coniving zionists or calling all Arabs jihadist terrorists. All I ask is that we show some respect and love for human beings instead of bigotry and contempt. As far as the word “terrorist” your excessive and repeated misuse of it has caused it to become a cliche cry of wolf.
D.B. Shobrawy
August 11th, 2006 at 12:38 am
Nonsense. If they’d cast their plea as mercy for all the people affected by this miserable mess, it would bring an entirely different reaction.
August 11th, 2006 at 1:02 am
Dumb equation Shobrawy. Most Jews are Zionists and it is not an insult, like the “Arabs=terrorists cliche”. But it does seem as though quite a few Arabs are supporters of terrorist groups and Jihad.
August 11th, 2006 at 1:02 am
D.B. Shobrawy
Hezbulla is a foriegn occupying power hostile to both Lebanon and Israel.
You sir, are either a full supporter of that POS organization or you are one of those useful idiots that can not see your way through a problem to a solution that is not drowned in a bunch of juvenile idiocy and feelgoodisms.
Either way, you and those you represent are as much the enemy to peace and peace loving peoples as the Hezbulls themselves. You are either a supporter of those that preach hate and slaughter or you are an enabler of those that preach hate and slaughter.
Lebanon is not being randomly bombed and Beruit is not being destroyed. That’s propaganda bullshit. There are bombs falling but with as much percision and as much care to keep them on Hezbull targets as possible. The same can not be said for the rockets that have been flying out of Lebanon into Israel.
Oh, and about that “cry of wolf” thing. Watch out now. If you dumbasses manage to get the herd overhere really awoken and angery, you’ll see the kind of stampede that aint been seen since our last full “kill em all and screw the rest” war was fought.
You very well might live long enough to see the entire Arab world turned to ash.
Keep it up smart guy. There’s nothing less competent in this entire planet than Arabs at war.
August 11th, 2006 at 1:20 am
Karen, Grimmy.
You need a hug, come on, gimmie a hug.
August 11th, 2006 at 1:34 am
Grimmy, I will tell you sincerely from my heart what my comment means. It means that I feel bad for the lebanese people who are a victim of this compaign. Though I do not believe Hezbollahs existence is good for Lebanon, I do not believe this conflict is succeeding in turning the people against terrorism I think the people are turning to them because while Israel is killing more civilians than hezbollah terrorists, Hezbollah is the only one fighting the people who threaten their lives. This is a big foul up which you agree with only because you have contempt and hate for all Arabs. The majority of the Lebanese people WERE against Hezbollah but they arent now because they have been pushed in that direction. The same observation has been made on this site as well as BigPharaoh and others, so dont act like its a new revelation.
August 11th, 2006 at 1:39 am
Valerie said it best in #6
Right on!
Of course they will never frame this conflict in terms of any harm done by Lebanese or Hezbollah to the Israelis.
And sorry D.B. it is not “bias” to objectively determine when persons or groups support terrorism - which CAN be defined. Please don’t give me that “one person’s terrorist is another person’s freedom fighter” crap!
August 11th, 2006 at 1:50 am
Amir Taheri on the conflict:
http://www.asharq-e.com/news.asp?section=2&id=5951
August 11th, 2006 at 2:02 am
There it is again, mid-way through the film. The words “pride” and “dignity”. It never fails to astound me that “pride” and “dignity” are always front and center. What pride? What dignity, my young Arab friends? Lebanon was taken over and corrupted by religious zealots who brought this disaster upon you through their own foolish behaviour. You have been nothing but doormats for a very, very long time. What pride and dignity is there in being a doormat? What pride and dignity is there in openly demonstrating that you are persist in denying half of the story? What pride and dignity is there is pretending you are a victim only of Israeli agression and not also of the dimwitted thugs that forced you on to the mat? When your minds open up to the whole truth, not just to the half that can be used to portray you as victims of Israeli agression, then, maybe, you will begin to taste real pride and real dignity.
August 11th, 2006 at 2:06 am
Shobrawy,
Don’t worry about it they won’t understand.
August 11th, 2006 at 2:09 am
Why are the 300 civilians killed considered martyrs in this video? Does that suggest they believed in Hezbulla’s cause? That being the total destruction of Israel and the death to all Jews. If so, they’re combatants. If not, then don’t call them martyrs. Lastly, why were the Lebanese people so blind to the build up of massive amounts of weaponry? Thousands of missiles trucked into the southern towns and nobody paid attention? Nobody thought to build a bomb shelter or two to protect the innocent? Oh… Hezbulla wouldn’t allow it? How sad the Lebanese people have allowed their government to accept such a poison into their country. A long hard look into a mirror is recommended.
August 11th, 2006 at 2:16 am
*snoring*
August 11th, 2006 at 2:22 am
Oh I see Twosret - the truth puts you to sleep!
August 11th, 2006 at 2:34 am
“Hezbollah is the only one fighting the people who threaten their lives.”
It is Hezbollah who is threatening Lebanese lives. How many times can they fire rockets at Israel and kidnap their soldiers before Israel is going to fight back. They are the problem and they are the ones responsible for bringing Israel to Lebanon.
Hezbollah placing their rocket launchers on apartment balconies also threatens the Lebanese. You think it’s o.k. for them to kill Israeli civillians while hiding behind their human shields.
Blame Israel for the growing Arab hatred against them. As if you loved them before. Stupido!!
August 11th, 2006 at 2:37 am
Go hug eee, Shobrawy. I think he’s more your type. Just don’t lick him. A previous poster, no longer here
said it could give you cancer!!
August 11th, 2006 at 2:45 am
It’s Propaganda, although touching…
One can ask only why dont they oppose Hezbollah & their rocket attacks ’cause thats the way to stop Israel from bombing..? Im european and i understand Israel’s need to retaliate with force..
August 11th, 2006 at 2:51 am
Why does everyone expect these poor Lebanese to HAVE to express sorrow over the israelis as well in order for it to be legitimate? When an israeli mother cries do you chastise her for not crying about the 600 newly orphaned Lebanese? There is nothing in there to suggest that these people are Hezbollah sympathizers, and even if they are, that’s no different from being an IDF supporter. Both are sick in the head. Oh, and another thing, Lebanese civilians have absolutely no part in this conflict other than dying. They did not fuel this conflict, they did not start it, and they certainly did not take it to the degree Israel has. Watch the galloway video.
August 11th, 2006 at 3:01 am
Israeli Arrogance and Bush latest Trick
Breaking the cycle of violence
August 11th, 2006 at 3:38 am
Mideastbeast, the “poor lebanese” don’t have to give a shit about Israeli mothers. What I want to hear from them, but expect I never will, is that they allowed Hezbollah to set up shop and turned a blind eye to, and are in total denial regarding what that organization did to start this war and to orchestrate the maximum loss of Lebanese lives. I guess that when you are forced to suck the teat of bunch of backward goons, funded by Iran, who have a vested interest in keeping you under their control, you might not want to face that reality, because it really is a humiliating and undignified position to be in. Facing and admitting that reality would not allow one to claim they have their “pride” and “dignity” intact.
August 11th, 2006 at 3:48 am
Well Mideastbeast - it certainly didn’t take very long for that old chestnut - “no difference between Hezbollah and the IDF ” to emerge. THERE IS NO PARITY!!!!!!!! IDF is a legitimate force and Hezbollah is terrorist. Thats it.
And……as to your comment about Israeli mothers not crying over orphaned Lebanese. Let’s engage in some honesty - There are countless of examples of Israelis who lament the deaths of their Arab counterparts - even as they must defend themselves. There are countless examples of Israelis participating in peace demonstrations that address the casualties on all sides. There is scant evidence of any meaningful Arab concern on the other side (of course there are exceptions - our thoughtful blog host included)
Also - are you kidding me about Israelis not being chastised for any perceived lack of concern about Arab welfare. Are you that disingenuous or that unwell read? And really, the way you phrase your “why should they have to express sorrow” is very telling in and of itself. The perception of many is that most Arabs and Muslims really don’t feel for or value people outside their own culture.
August 11th, 2006 at 3:50 am
Mideastbeast, it is the echoing lack of genuine concern for anybody, not just the Israelis. The Iraqis have noticed it, as well as the Jordanians. I am sure there are many Lebanese who are unimpressed with the love that Hezbollah has shown for them.
The Israelis do mourn for others. And the Christians also have the ability to recognize the natural right of other people to exist. But recent events have shown that there are real questions about the Muslims on this point.
This sad situation could be stopped very quickly. I doubt that it will be. But once it grinds to a halt, it will be time to recognize that Jews have a right to life just like other people.
From Michel Aoun, former prme minister of Lebanon, currently a deputy in the Lebanese parliament.
http://www.tayyar.org/tayyar/articles.php?article_id=16171&type=GMA
excerpt:
” I ask, will other Arab countries and leaders have the courage to acknowledge that Israeli life is equal to Arab life? Will Israel have the courage as well to acknowledge that Lebanese life is equal to Israeli life, and that all life is priceless? I believe that most Israeli and Arab citizens would answer in the affirmative. Can we get their governments and their leaders to do the same?”
I do not think that will happen. The Israelis would do it in a heartbeat, and gladly. Most Americans and Europeans would wonder why anyone would bother stating the obvious. But I would be deeply surprised if the other Arab countries, or for example the Organization of Islamic Conference, will do so. I would love to be proven worng, because if it did happen, the entire Middle East would bloom. I wish all the peoples of the Middle East prosperity and happiness and peace. I do not see that they are willing to grant themselves those things.
August 11th, 2006 at 3:57 am
“Why does everyone expect these poor Lebanese to HAVE to express sorrow over the israelis as well in order for it to be legitimate?”
Well despite smaller numbers of Jews and/or Israelis, hell add them both together they’re still smaller, you tend to find more that express sympathy and sorrow for the plight of their “enemies”. That’s the kicker you see. That’s what in the end upsets and frustrates “westerners”. You want MY sypmathy? What the heck have you done to make me want to sympathize with you? Hmm?
As for “there’s more than ever that hate you” Well isn’t that nice. So now there’s only 2 that like us. After the whole cartoon thing I’m surprised there’s that many left.
August 11th, 2006 at 4:08 am
I am still waiting for a Lebanese person to say something like “hold your fire, and we’ll make sure Hezbollah will not use it to re-supply its missiles. We will block the roads, we will stop and search cars, we will fight if we have to, but you will not be loosing more of your lives to Hezbollah because of your ceasefire, we promise”. That’s how we expect men to speak. I doubt I will ever read this. All this touching cry has “please let us/them kill you” weaved into it
August 11th, 2006 at 4:09 am
“The perception of many is that most Arabs and Muslims really don’t feel for or value people outside their own culture. ”
Hell, Nicole, most of them don’t even value their own people. A dead Arab only has value if he is killed by Israel or the US. All the millions of Arabs killed by their own governments are completely irrelevant. They can’t be used to sustain pride and dignity, afterall.
August 11th, 2006 at 4:12 am
Boy Louise, that sure is sadly true. And once they are dead they can be counted as “martyrs” - A term that has taken on a completely different meaning from that I was raised with.
August 11th, 2006 at 4:19 am
D.B, Twosret,
I get what you’re saying. Honestly, I do. I admit that when I watched the video I felt it was a bit overly “dramatic,” as though they were play-acting. I tried to image what an Israeli bomb shelter “scene” would look like and pictured stoic, resigned, distressed expressions. Something more Western and stiff upper lip. I’ve always noticed how like the British, the Israelis are.
However, I reminded myself that the Lebanese were not in a bomb shelter. Also, this may have been a cultural difference even though, to Western eyes, it seemed to be slightly propagandistic.
As to who is to blame, I wouldn’t presume to say that those persons in particular were at fault, any more than I would be if my leaders led the country astray. I have no idea how I would act in their places, but I probably would have been huddled and crying. Perhaps it was only bravado we were seeing.
Personally, I feel very conflicted by this whole situation. I have always worried for Israel. I think it’s gotten a bum deal from the International Community and its first responsibility is to protect its people in the best way it can. I don’t trust Hezbollah or the Iranian leadership that influences it.
On the other hand, I can’t fault so many of the Lebanese citizens for falling into this trap.
Just some rambling thoughts…
August 11th, 2006 at 4:23 am
Fares: from your first link.. after ranting about how “Beautiful Lebanon is gone and converted to ghost towns” and “the shinning star of the Arab world lost its life: you actually contradict yourself and say what most westerners say when they stuff like that .. “But arabs will survive, Lebanon will survive, Iraq will survive, the Palestinian will survive, Syria will survive, Jordan will Survice, Egypt will survive, the rest of the arab world will survice…” hmm so even you realize that what your saying is loaded with bs and hyperbole
Hey I don’t begrudge you your hatred in war but your willingness to shackle yourself intellectually with emotions leaves your judgements impaired.
Oh and btw don’t go on about escalating military activities, when 1st, Hezbollah is trying to do the same with the infamous shadowy leader and 2nd it’s a diplomatic manouver that will only happen IF diplomacy fails
August 11th, 2006 at 4:27 am
There is scant evidence of any meaningful Arab concern on the other side (of course there are exceptions - our thoughtful blog host included)
Well if you listen to half the Arab posters, he isn’t arab
August 11th, 2006 at 4:33 am
Hey Jason, I gotta believe there’s a few.
August 11th, 2006 at 4:35 am
I meant to add - our Egyptian host included
August 11th, 2006 at 4:43 am
Wow, too many bigots here. Shabrawy and Tworset, dont bother try, they are a$$holes. I mean, when they tell you Lebanon is occupied by Hizballah, lol. I assume the West Bank is also occupied by Palestinians too?
August 11th, 2006 at 4:44 am
One more rambling thought I forgot to include was that although many Israeli’s are inside bomb shelters, there is a lot of worrying going on about a loved one or two who is out fighting for Israel’s right to exist. (Unless you think Nasrallah is just pulling our legs) Most of Israel’s young men and women are on the line - as well as it’s “regular” folks who are all on reserve. I don’t know of another country like it.
August 11th, 2006 at 4:46 am
SM,
Jason from Toronto: “our thoughtful blog host included”
Coming from a Zionist, that’s an insult rather than praise.
August 11th, 2006 at 4:50 am
Raed, if you could read (and write) more carefully you might have noted that Jason is not the author of that sentence - I am. I would say the content of your posting demonstrates a little bigotry. n’est pas?
August 11th, 2006 at 4:55 am
The Middle East needs a referee. The Middle East needs a counselor. The Middle East needs a hug.
August 11th, 2006 at 5:11 am
Much of this discussion, and in fact much of all the rumination about this latest conflict, brings me back jarringly to my youth. As the youngest in the family, I was perpetually being blamed for things I didn’t do, suckered by my clever and manipulative older sisters. My reaction to that was that, if I was going to be blamed anyway, I might as well have the pleasure of actually doing it.
In the current hostilities, I see the IDF being manipulated by the clever Hezbollah tactics into attacking targets that are either civilian or semi-civilian. I see them using precision weapons to hit only targets that they are trying to hit. I see them trying to destroy the Hezbollah infrastructure, and the infrastructure that they share with the civilian population, while leaving intact the rest of the country surrounding their targets. I see the IDF sending in their ground troops - at great risk to themselves - rather than bombing the crap - I mean REALLY bombing the crap, NATO style - out of Lebanon. And I see them doing all this, not perfectly, but admirably.
In return, I see them getting blamed for being thuggish brutes. I see the Lebanese people - rather disingenuously - say that they couldn’t disarm Hezbollah for the past six years, but they suddenly can now. And that they’re not responsible for the actions of Hezbollah, even though the voted for them, and included them in the government. I hear all the claims of genocide and massacres, as though the evil IDF is going out of its way to depopulate Lebanon,and has meant to do this all along.
What is obvious to me is that at some point Israel will say, “Hey, if I’m going to be blamed for a genocidal massacre anyway, WTF! Why bother to send in the infantry? Let’s just carpet bomb the place, and let G-d sort them all out. We’ll get blamed for genocide anyway, but at least this way we’ll be sure to have eliminated HA once and for all. And as for just making more terrorists? Ha!”
It will be a sad day indeed if that ever happens, for both sides. But it would be an entirely rational response on Israel’s part, if all the hyperbole and vitriol continues, IMHO.
Don’t get me wrong, I feel very bad for the average Lebanese guy sufferring through this. But frankly they picked their enemies well. Had they been fighting the Russians, by now there would have been no one left to produce propaganda like this.
August 11th, 2006 at 5:17 am
Raed,
Are you saying that Hizballah represents lebanon?
since Hizballah is on record saying that it wants to kill all israelis and even all jews. and that they target civilians. can the lebanese really complain?
August 11th, 2006 at 5:22 am
Raed,
I’ll engage.
Is your point that Hezbollah is not an occupying force, but an agent of the Lebanese government? So then the Lebanese government bears the responsibility for instigating this war? That seems to work out poorly for the people of Lebanon, sympathy-wise.
August 11th, 2006 at 5:23 am
Isdor,
Sorry, I didn’t see your post before posting mine.
What you said.
August 11th, 2006 at 5:27 am
Nicole,
Read post #
Post #32 (Jason): “our thoughtful blog host included”
Post #34 (yours) : “our Egyptian host included”
Post #37 (me) : “Jason from Toronto: “our thoughtful blog host included””
Clear I quoted Jason, not you. But I think bigots are too blind to first check the truth. Can you F-off now please, bigot?
August 11th, 2006 at 5:30 am
BrooklynJon,
Very well said. I was having similar thoughts. Israel is doing everything they can to be restrained and the world seems to buy the “Altered Reuters” version of events.
And of course there is no question that should Israel bring the full brunt of its military capability on Lebanon - Lebanon is gone. ANd no decent person should want either Lebanon or Israel to suffer that fate.
August 11th, 2006 at 5:31 am
I wish the voices of opinion were more balanced on here I really do because unfortunately anyone who disagrees with the politics of a country (Israel) is attacked with aqusations of Anti-semite. And even if the word Anti-semite isnt used its something to that effect. I mean Karen, you compared me to eee. Unbelievable. I’ll be back at Whisper of Madness where I can express my freedom of speech.
August 11th, 2006 at 5:32 am
BrooklynJon,
“Is your point that Hezbollah is not an occupying force, but an agent of the Lebanese government?”
Hizballah is a resistance force my smart friend.
You dont think Israel is an occupation force in Palestine, and now in Lebanon?
August 11th, 2006 at 5:34 am
Raed,
You are just making a fool of yourself. Your rude language toward others who may not share your view speaks volumes.
August 11th, 2006 at 5:34 am
Shobrawy,
All the people here are Zionist bigots who are cheering because they found a sympathetic Arab - like Nazeer Mjalli in the Likud Party. They dont like the Azmi Bshara type because he exposes them.
This is not a place to debate because a lot of the people are Zionist bigots from NY or Toronto or Israel (hint hint?).
August 11th, 2006 at 5:35 am
Nicole,
I exposed your bigotry so you are upset?
August 11th, 2006 at 5:37 am
Raed,
LOL at how ridiculous you are. You know nothing.
August 11th, 2006 at 5:39 am
Nicole,
“You are just making a fool of yourself”
Am I? How? By forgetting what I posted 2sec ago? lol
August 11th, 2006 at 5:41 am
Nicole,
“You know nothing.”
I already know that. But I wonder: how come I know nothing if in fact I ALREADY know that I know nothing? I doubt you got that, given your demonstrated intellect.
August 11th, 2006 at 5:43 am
Raed,
so Hizballah is a resistance force to the invasion that they themselves provoked.
With logic like that it is no wonder that muslims lead the world in science and inovation.
August 11th, 2006 at 5:43 am
Raed,
Calling all the people here “zionist bigots” is absurd. Thoughtful disagreement is welcome but your ad hominen attacks are not.
August 11th, 2006 at 5:45 am
Nicol,
You dont like Zionists to be called by their name?
August 11th, 2006 at 5:46 am
Raed,
and by the way - matching wits with someone who does not have any (that being yourself) would be futile.
August 11th, 2006 at 5:46 am
isdor,
“Hizballah is a resistance force to the invasion that they themselves provoked”
Did they teach you that history started on July 12th 2006?
“no wonder that muslims lead the world in science and inovation.”
Racist. Thanks for showing your colour to us all.
August 11th, 2006 at 5:47 am
Nicole,
Are you 15? You sound like a high school girl going through teenage years.
August 11th, 2006 at 5:51 am
D.B. I did not compare you to eee. You appear to be a little more sane and somewhat likeable. He is neither. However, I think that you and he may have more to agree on than you and I. Thus, the he’s more your type comment (as opposed to me). Plus, I think he need your hugs way more than I do
August 11th, 2006 at 5:51 am
racist? sorry islam is not a race.
Lets assume israeli is the aggressor. lets say they are full of bigots. Then why give it an excuse to invade lebanon? wouldn’t Hizballah care enough about lebanese citizens to not give an excuse to the zionist monster to invade? surely they must care more about the children than about old scores.
August 11th, 2006 at 5:51 am
Hizballah is the culprit of Muslims’ agony. Allah willing, the shia will pay.
August 11th, 2006 at 5:52 am
Raed,
Gee, I’m sure you meant that in the nicest way.
August 11th, 2006 at 5:53 am
isdor,
Judaism is a race?
August 11th, 2006 at 5:55 am
doctor IJ,
“Hizballah is the culprit of Muslims’ agony”
Explain how that is please.
August 11th, 2006 at 5:58 am
isodor,
“why give it an excuse to invade lebanon”
I assume even a 10 year old throwing a stone classifies for the IDF as an excuse to shoot him. Dont hide behind your finger.
August 11th, 2006 at 6:02 am
no. what’s your point?
Being a jew refers to both a race and a religion though.
you are not racist for disagreeing with the teachings of judaism.
I didn’t accuse you of being racist. even hating israelis doesn’t make you racist.
I said “With logic like that it is no wonder that muslims lead the world in science and inovation. ”
I was being sarcastic of course. but do you disagree?
It seems to me that muslims do not contribute to science or advancement.
Seems like the most famous muslims in the world are the one who murder women and children.
August 11th, 2006 at 6:03 am
I am almost proud, This post was almost completely devoid of conversation until my comment #5. But the resulting conversation is not much i want to be apart of.
August 11th, 2006 at 6:07 am
If that was true I don’t think there would be very many children throwing stones at israeli soldiers. Like I said logic is not your strong point.
by the way I am curious about something.
Why all the attention about Israel?
More muslims die in Sudan every day than in lebanon, gaza, west bank combined.
just curious…
August 11th, 2006 at 6:11 am
I think more Christians die in Sudan than anything, the streets of Cairo are filled with refugees from Darfur
August 11th, 2006 at 6:15 am
“More muslims die in Sudan every day than in lebanon, gaza, west bank combined.”
And even more Sunnis are killed by Shia in Iraq. The Shia are apostates. Sunnis are the only true Muslims.
August 11th, 2006 at 6:16 am
isdor,
Jews are a race and a religion? Israel is a Jewish-state, so Israel is a state for a race? Racist in other words? Dont tell me about Arab Israelis, please. Logic isn’t your strong point.
“Why all the attention about Israel?”
Because that shitty little state has caused more trouble that it is worth maintaining. Cost-benefit considerations.
“muslims do not contribute to science or advancement”
Really? Sweeping generalization here? That is is a fallacy equivalent to saying Jews own all the banks in the world. Again, logic isn’t your best friend.
August 11th, 2006 at 6:16 am
well the muslims already killed two million african christians and animaists in sudan. But they also killed a 100,000 muslims in Darfur. give or take 10,000. And the killing hasn’t stopped.
Not sure why they killed them. Some say because they are dark skinned africans. Or maybe because they are not muslim enough…
Or maybe killing is just what muslims do…
August 11th, 2006 at 6:17 am
doctor IJ,
I repeat my question in case you overlooked it:
“Hizballah is the culprit of Muslims’ agony”
Explain how that is please.
August 11th, 2006 at 6:20 am
isdor,
“killing is just what muslims do”
lol, I am muslim but I dont do that. how can you explain this anomaly?
I doubt you see what I’m saying: I am trying to say that you’re a bigot and you are pretty comfortable with generalizations, stereotyping, and proofs are a sort of luxury for you.
August 11th, 2006 at 6:22 am
Raed. You are assuming I am not open minded. but I am open to correction.
by the way, why are you trying to argue the Israel is racist? I was only correcting when you accused me of being racist when I talked about Islam. I said Islam is not a race. You could just admit that you are wrong.
Racism is the belief that one race is inferior to another.
Now if Sweden decided to stop all imigration. Because they wanted only swedes in their country would that make them racist? A country for a race.
Still haven’t answered my question about Sudan. why no protests?
August 11th, 2006 at 6:23 am
>“Hizballah is the culprit of Muslims’ agony”
>Explain how that is please.
Because they’re Shia cowards who use human shields and hide between civilans including women and children.
August 11th, 2006 at 6:26 am
I think tempers are a little hot here right now. Not much sense… Sandmonkey, where are you?
Did SM want you to see this to make a bridge between the two sides? It seems to have hit a sore spot, though. Insults are flying and it’s pointless.
August 11th, 2006 at 6:28 am
Raed. everyone uses generalizations. You call israelis zionists bigots.
I do not object.
I am not saying that all individual muslims kill people.
I am saying that any significant population of muslims will be violent. A small percentage will do the killing and raping. and most of the rest will make excuses.
You may be one of the peaceful ones, but I can’t deny what I see.
I am not saying this is because of ideology. I just see it everywhere. Thailand, Phillipines, Sudan, Nigeria, Europe…, Russia, and worst of all the countries where muslims are the majority. When it comes to level of violence Israel is at the bottom of the list.
August 11th, 2006 at 6:34 am
Whoa!
Judaism is a religion. The Jewish people is a nation. Not a race.
The Jewish nation has an associated religion, Judaism. You can be a member of the Jewish people, yet be an atheist. You can naturalize into the Jewish people by conversion. Zionism is the nationalist movement of the Jewish people. Like all nationalist movements, it is inherently exclusionary. It is not racist. There are Jews of all races. And you don’t have to be a Jew to be an Israeli, in any event. For that matter, you don’t have to be a Jew to believe that the Jews should have their own country, and hence be a Zionist. I believe the Kurds should have their own soverign country, yet I am not a Kurd.
Bigotry means that what one is saying is right because G-d said so. People who say that homosexuality is a sin are presumably saying that they speak for G-d. That is bigotry (right or wrong). In fact, the word “bigot” is a contraction of “By G-d”. So a bigot feels that since G-d agrees with them, there is no need for further justification of their views.
There are, of course, bigots of all shapes, sizes, and creeds. I don’t think I’ve heard any bigotry here, ‘cept maybe for eee, if he has, in fact, advanced a coherent argument at some point. But I’m interested if anyone has used G-d as a sole reference source for their belief. In this community, that would of course be silly, since we tend to more or less divide by religion, and frankly Jesus’s utterences (for example) are unlikely to motivate a non-Christian to change their mind.
Raed, I’m willing to entertain your point of view, if you’re willing to state it coherently. However, if your goal is to convince me that you’re right, then telling me that I’m evil or stupid or bigoted (which I perceive to be an insult though others might not) isn’t going to help. I’m listening. Talk to me.
August 11th, 2006 at 6:40 am
Come to think of it, it’s late, and I’m going to sleep. Good night, all.
August 11th, 2006 at 6:42 am
Bec - this is the usual situation. You can’t build bridges between universes.
August 11th, 2006 at 7:40 am
This is one of the few blogs on the huge Internet where Muslim, Christian and Jews seem to engage in an open yet civilised conversation. Political correctness is crap, yet precision is a virtue. It is absolutely unacceptable to say “Muslim kill people” even if you are over-over-negative re teaching of Muhhamad or his actions, or the atmosphere in the Muslim communities in Europe etc. I believe that the harsh truth should be said about Arabs, Muslim in general, Catholic Church, Anglicans, French, Jews, Palestinians, Russians, intellectuals, farmers, homosexuals, heterosexuals, and any other group that has some similarity, yet one should be careful to add “from my observations,generally, en-masse ” etc
August 11th, 2006 at 7:47 am
I will keep all of these innocent Lebanese people in my prayers.
God bless them. Amen.
August 11th, 2006 at 7:55 am
It would be fair to say though that Western society in general developed some practically universal unacceptance of killing, that is rather unique (correct me if I am wrong), and that can be easily destroyed by abuse and attacks ( I will write more about that over weekend in my blog). At this time, just imagine - US+EU technology with Iran or Hezbollah attitude. Do we have another planet to live on???
August 11th, 2006 at 10:04 am
I am sorry, but most of it is so much bull-shit. No one heard of the Lebanese displaced? Give me a break.
Massacre? Proof it!
Especially the comments at the you tube thingy makes me angry; like this one:
“Unfortunatley, Israel has world support, they are master manipulators of the MEDIA everywhere!!”
Sure, if the Jews control everything and are master manipulators; how come that most of the public in Europe; many in the US and almost all in the Arab world are against Israel - and/or Jews? Perhaps they are not so good at it? Or perhaps they just dont control it?
This really pisses me off.
Nevertheless it is nicely done with the one minute of silence. And the woman sings nice
August 11th, 2006 at 10:04 am
I am sorry, but most of it is so much bull-shit. No one heard of the Lebanese displaced? Give me a break.
Massacre? Proof it!
Especially the comments at the you tube thingy makes me angry; like this one:
“Unfortunatley, Israel has world support, they are master manipulators of the MEDIA everywhere!!”
Sure, if the Jews control everything and are master manipulators; how come that most of the public in Europe; many in the US and almost all in the Arab world are against Israel - and/or Jews? Perhaps they are not so good at it? Or perhaps they just dont control it?
This really pisses me off.
Nevertheless it is nicely done with the one minute of silence. And the woman sings nice
(my connection is not good. Sorry if this is a double post)
August 11th, 2006 at 10:11 am
Raed: “SM,
Jason from Toronto: “our thoughtful blog host included”
Coming from a Zionist, that’s an insult rather than praise.”
Oh you didn’t. Zionist? Moi? Really? I’m so speshul then eh. So guess your an Islamofacist pig. F***ing puto.
Don’t need to read anymore of your posts. Hope you die a “martyrs” death at the hands of your heros.
August 11th, 2006 at 10:19 am
“I wish the voices of opinion were more balanced on here I really do because unfortunately anyone who disagrees with the politics of a country (Israel) is attacked with aqusations of Anti-semite. And even if the word Anti-semite isnt used its something to that effect. I mean Karen, you compared me to eee. Unbelievable. I’ll be back at Whisper of Madness where I can express my freedom of speech.”
Oh I concur. Though in the reverse. Anyone that doesn’t agree that Lebanon is a poor leper child that did nothing to deserve even a cold shoulder is a Zionist.
So maybe we should all separate and hang with people that only echo our opinions. *wheres the blog that says nuke them all damnit so we can get back to latest celebrity gossip* (sarcasm intended for those to dumb to get it, Raed) That should help in bridging the chasms between us.
August 11th, 2006 at 10:23 am
“Hizballah is a resistance force my smart friend.
You dont think Israel is an occupation force in Palestine, and now in Lebanon? ”
Yeah I for some reason kept reading your posts. Don’t let it go to your head.
A resistance that lacked an occupier. Now it has one. Are you happy now?
Riiiiiiiiight Palestine. So back to that are we. Okay. Hope you like Israeli occupation cuz if THAT has to be settled, Israel will be in for the long haul. Shit go sort out your own house before demanding perfection from your neighbour.
Calling me a bigot cuz I said “half the arabs don’t think SM is arab” is just wacko jacko mumbo jumbo. You HAVE seen the “I know where you live” posts right? Stupid puto. Your neck is as red as mine my friend.
August 11th, 2006 at 10:34 am
Bah your all Islamofasict Zionist Soup Nazis From Hell and I need to go to work so
to all and all a good 
August 11th, 2006 at 10:43 am
I love Seinfeld
August 11th, 2006 at 12:34 pm
Egyptians are not arabs! They just came and invaded Egypt and forced us to speak their language. Our original language is copt which some die hards still speak. Politically speaking we’re always grouped as arabs but that is politically speaking, post Nasser i think and his tragic idealogies. When we get arabs from the gulf holidaying in Egypt (as they always do because we’re so cool)- we’re always like “oh those arabs are everywhere”.
August 11th, 2006 at 12:35 pm
People really shouldn’t feed the trolls. But that makes me a bigot I suppose - I don’t much like trolls. *sigh*
August 11th, 2006 at 12:47 pm
trolls is that code word for what i think it is
August 11th, 2006 at 1:33 pm
Clear,
Do you suffer from the Coptic Orthodox Syndrome?
August 11th, 2006 at 1:35 pm
Suzanne,
Denial is your worst enemy, we should work on people who deny Qana to go to Jail like their cousins who deny the holocaust.
August 11th, 2006 at 2:18 pm
Jason darling,
“Hope you like Israeli occupation cuz if THAT has to be settled, Israel will be in for the long haul. Shit go sort out your own house before demanding perfection from your neighbour.”
When you kick out 700,000 Palestinians from their homes and you are an occupying force, you are will not be liked for it right? So I guess following your logic Israel needs to gain the fruits of it’s deeds.
On the other hand if Israel chose peace and Justice (real peace and Justice not the faked one) then you will have better luck with ALL your neighbors. Stop the aggression, occupation, and warmonger attitude and only then you will be respected by others.
August 11th, 2006 at 2:36 pm
Returning to the topic, the video is propaganda, either moving or revolting depending on one’s point of view. Either way, to my way of thinking the makers of the video are not innocents; they are combatants.
All the talk of massacres. With one exception, that of Sabra and Shatila, it consists entirely of Arabs complaining of being bloodied by Jews/Israelis in the context of conflicts that the Arabs started. (Unless one adopts the Arab narrative, which holds that the return of the Jews to a homeland that was briefly held by Arab conquerors for a period following what is conventionally dated as the death of Muhammad constitutes an illegitimate “occupation.” I’ve never heard a satisfactory explanation of why the descendants of those Arab conquerors aren’t themselves occupiers.)
Sabra and Shatila, of course, is where Lebanese militiamen allegedly slaughered innocent Palestinian Arabs who in turn proceeded to blame Israel, just as Arabs today blame the U.S. and the U.K. for the Arab-on-Arab violence now raging in Iraq, where far more “civilians” are dying than have been stricken in Lebanon. Israel, ironically (or not), held General Sharon indirectly responsible for the Sabra/Shatila massacre on account of his failure to foresee that one group of Arabs would masscre another, and thus for failing to prevent it. One might argue that General Sharon’s error was repeated by Bush and Rumsfeld, on a much grander scale, in Iraq.
The moral: never underestimate the pathology of contemporary Arab culture. (And it’s not racist to speak of a culture. Culture is not destiny at an individual level; there are non-Arabs who have adopted Arab culture, just as there are Arabs who have rejected it.)
August 11th, 2006 at 2:56 pm
Ben F -
“(And it’s not racist to speak of a culture. Culture is not destiny at an individual level; there are non-Arabs who have adopted Arab culture, just as there are Arabs who have rejected it.)”
Well stated!
There is also the fact that Jews and Arabs are genetic brothers.
August 11th, 2006 at 3:22 pm
mideastbeast wrote:
“Why does everyone expect these poor Lebanese to HAVE to express sorrow over the israelis as well in order for it to be legitimate? When an israeli mother cries do you chastise her for not crying about the 600 newly orphaned Lebanese? There is nothing in there to suggest that these people are Hezbollah sympathizers, and even if they are, that’s no different from being an IDF supporter. Both are sick in the head. Oh, and another thing, Lebanese civilians have absolutely no part in this conflict other than dying. They did not fuel this conflict, they did not start it, and they certainly did not take it to the degree Israel has. Watch the galloway video.”
I watched the Galloway video. He is a Hezballah sympathizer. I say that not to disparage the man; he himself proclaims it with pride. By your definition, he’s “sick in the head.” Why, then, would you direct others to watch it.
August 11th, 2006 at 3:24 pm
karen, nicole n those who are following these ppl that are brainwashed………………..i just really wish and hope deep inside me that u experience one of these innocent victims lives and then let us hear what u have to say about this war, u ignorant ppl only care if u have dinner coming on ur table n as long as those Israeli bastards arnt bombing ur house then nothing is ur business.
Propaganda??? u call all these innocent victims (most of children, women and elderly) killed just a propaganda?? so why isnt one or two Israelis injured not propaganda? so wot u lot are trying to say is that just because Hezbollah is fighting back, defending its country, then its ok to kill all these innocent civilians? then you must really have a cold heart…….
August 11th, 2006 at 3:25 pm
karen, nicole n those who are following these ppl that are brainwashed………………..i just really wish and hope deep inside me that u experience one of these innocent victims lives and then let us hear what u have to say about this war, u ignorant ppl only care if u have dinner coming on ur table n as long as those Israeli bastards arnt bombing ur house then nothing is ur business.
Propaganda??? u call all these innocent victims (most of children, women and elderly) killed just a propaganda?? so why isnt one or two Israelis injured not propaganda? so wot u lot are trying to say is that just because Hezbollah is fighting back, defending its country, then its ok to kill all these innocent civilians? then you must really have a cold heart…….
August 11th, 2006 at 5:17 pm
@Tsworset, the holocaust had not so many pecularities.
August 11th, 2006 at 6:31 pm
Touching, evocative, and propaganda.
Was I the only one who noticed in this little film about “4 Million People”, the Lebanese, how they slipped in a reference to Deir Yassin? What does Deir yassin have to do with the Lebanese conflict.
[the following is adressed to some of the commenters here, not SM]
I know, it all started when the big bad Jews hit you back.
The 69 mostly elderly non-Zionist Jews that were slaughtered in Hebron in 1929 were no doubt paying for the sins of the 1967 occupation.
Like Aesop said, any excuse will serve a tyrant.
Don’t whine about Jews expelling “palestinians” until you are ready to acknowledge the 750,000 Jews expelled from Arab countries and the persecution of Jews and other dhimmis in the Muslim world.
August 11th, 2006 at 7:15 pm
“If only the Israel chose peace and justice…they would have better luck with their neighbors”. Sorry Twosret, there are too many G-d damned radicals in the Arab/Muslim world to make that possible. Ahmadinejad, Osama, Hamas, Nasrallah don’t say to Israel that they would make peace with Israel IF ONLY ISRAEL WILL…. Peace is not possible with them. They want Israel wiped off the map and that is all.
And they have millions and millions of supporters willing to die for that cause. And we are only the beginning. It just starts with the Jews but doesn’t end with them. All over the globe there are muslim/christian muslim/hindu muslim/bahai muslim/jewish muslim/muslim conflicts. What is the common denominator?!
August 11th, 2006 at 7:44 pm
Gurl
That was a rather inarticulate rant. Hezbollah has no country - only terrorist sponsors - therefore it only can defend itself as the parasite it is.
August 11th, 2006 at 9:10 pm
To gurl,
I wouldn’t dare suggest that the deaths of innocents are anything less than tragic. But please understand that, for some of us, blaming “those Israeli bastards” alone is simplistic and naive at best, disingenuous and cynical at worst.
If you disagree…if you regard Israelis as–at least morally–inferior to others (notably Arabs), then you are likely to be deeply touched by the video in question and untroubled by its subtext. You’re also likely to see violence against Israelis as defensive and violence by Israelis as aggresive. You’re also likely to deem massacres commited by Israeli-sponsored Arab militias against Arab civilians (Sabra and Shatila) as heinous while regarding massacres by Syrian-backed Arab militias against Arab civilians (Karantina and Tel al-Zaatar) and massacres by Palestinian militias against Arab civilians (Damour) as forgettable. You might further absolve the Phalangists of their trigger-pulling at Sabra but not extend forgiveness to the Israelis for their support.
You might think that its understandable to falsely report the number killed by Israeli airstrikes (Qana); to clone smoke, to digitally add flares to photographs and call them missiles (Reuters); to recycle images while changing dates and captions (AP, BBC); to bring in reporters to film six empty ambulances racing from one end of a street to another, then park the ambulances, wait for a fresh batch of reports, repeat, and call it news (according to CNN), to parade around the same dead body for hours–perhaps even days–and call it live footage (Mr. Green Helmet).
You might feel that the relatively few deaths among Israeli civilians demonstrates Hezbollah’s great care in choosing targets and deep respect for the preservation of innocent life. And you might suspect that the accusations of Hezbollah members firing rockets from civilian areas, not wearing uniforms, employing human shields, and threatening Lebanese ideological rivals with violence are spurious. Maybe you don’t find al-Menar’s programming unduly Judeophobic. Maybe you can justify inciting children to kill themselves and others in the name of God or glorifying those that do so. Maybe you see no reason why Israel should be concerned about a group calling for its complete destruction, simultaneously amassing an arsenal of weapons along its border, simultaneously receiving training, funding, and rhetorical support from a theocratic country unabashedly commited to wiping it off the map and insisting on pursuing dual-use nuclear technology for civil power needs. Maybe you think that Israel ought to be wiped off the map and that whoever manages to achieve that will have done the world a favor.
Perhaps when you look at the list of nations of the Eastern Mediterranean and Arabian Peninsula–or even the whole world–you don’t see any regimes as repressive as Israel’s, and you see no irony in the fact that so many denunciations of Israel come from places chock-full of political prisoners, extrajudicial killings, and oppressive subjugation of women and minorities as well as rampant corruption, totalitarian dictators, mass starvation, even slavery. Maybe you feel that Rwanda, Zimbabwe, Congo, Sudan, Chechnya, the Balkans didn’t deserve the attention that Israel does. Maybe you suspect the Mossad of plotting and executing attacks on civilians in Casablanca, Madrid, London, Kuta, Karachi, New York, Nairobi, Dar es Saalam, Riyadh, Taba, Luxor, Bombay, Moscow, Beslan, Amman, and Istanbul. Maybe you don’t blame the Mossad at all, but you see the attacks as legitimate targets considering the presence or proximity of Israelis…or at least Jews…or at least Americans…or at least citizens of countries whose governments are sufficiently friendly with America or Israel or the Zionist/Crusader conspiracy…or at least Christians, or Hindus, or Russians, or some sort of infidels, please…or embassy of countries with offensive cartoonists, or insensitive newspaper editors, or embassies that share the building with embassies of countries with offensive cartoonists and insensitive newspaper editors…or at least Muslims from a different sect or rival faction, or one’s own sister who disgraced one’s family’s honor by having sex before marriage.
Of course, I don’t know what you think. Maybe I’ve read you all wrong. Maybe that’s not you that I’m describing. Maybe you empathize with all of my critique, or most, or even just some of it, but still feel that too many innocent people are dying in Lebanon, and I’d agree with you. But maybe you’d be willing to reexamine why some might find the video in question here–however painful–somewhat exploitive of this sad conflict and dismissive of the plight of those across the border. And maybe…just maybe…you’ll consider the possibility that complicity in the horrible war extends beyond just Israel.
August 11th, 2006 at 9:42 pm
Sn,
Very well said!!!
August 11th, 2006 at 10:22 pm
Wow, sn. My compliments. Impressive comment.
August 11th, 2006 at 10:44 pm
Gurl, you really made me laugh with your rant.
Attacking another country, taking hostages (note: that is a war crime) is by no means defending one’s country.
Furthermore, you seem to forget that Hezbollah is not the Lebanese government. If anything, they are foreign occupiers, which isn’t a strange point of view since they are supported by another former occupyer of Lebanon, namely the Syrian regime. (which I would remind, also violates human rights on a massive scale)
So what does the other side do when you murder 8 of their people, take two hostages and fire rockets at their cities?
They shoot back as hard as they can. Now Israël is doing it, and it hurts.
If you want someone to blame for all those dead, blame Hezbollah, they started this agression after over five years of relative peace.
August 11th, 2006 at 11:59 pm
Suzanne: “Nevertheless it is nicely done with the one minute of silence. And the woman sings nice”
Actually it was the tune and the voice that gave me the creeps. All that martyr and massacre and helpless victims talk does not really reach me anymore. I have heard it so often in such abstruse arguments that the words got trite. With the tune and the voice it is different. They make me wish that there were no reason for such a song, neither in Lebanon nor in Israel nor elsewhere. The bad thing is that there will be plenty of reasons as long as people do not turn down those who use the martyr-massacre-dignity-stuff as a war cry. Double creeps.
August 12th, 2006 at 1:57 am
doctor IJ, It’s the Sunni animals who are apostates. We show you who’s side Allah is on.
August 12th, 2006 at 10:18 am
Zaki, you just made his argument for him.