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Friday, 11 Aug 2006
*This conversation took place today between me and my grandmother*
Me: Hey Granny, I have a question for you.
GM: Yes, sweetie, what is it?
Me: Well, ok. Do you remember if the Newspapers used to show the pictures of egyptians who died on the hands of Israel in the 50's and 60's?
GM: What?
Me: Like, you know how when you open the newspapers you always see those pictrues of israeli casulaties. Did we used to do that when they killed our people?
GM: No. Now that you mention it, we never did that. We would have thousands who died on their hands in Sinai and they would never publish a single charred or bloody body. Why do you ask that?
Me:Well, ok. Do you rememebr the Qana massacare. You know the building that the israelis bombed and killed all of those babies in? And they had this guy, with the green hemlet carying the little dead girl and crying and stuff?
GM: Yeah. That was awful.
Me: Well, for the past week or two american and israeli websites have been focusing on that guy. The reason for it was that there is a number of photographs of him carrying that little dead girl, and they are all taken by different photographers with different time stamps. One at 10 am, one at 12 pm, one at 1 pm, one at 4 pm.
GM: Of the same girl? Howcome?
Me: Well, there are 2 explanations of that: One is that the different photographers had different time settings on their cameras. The other explanation is that he was using the little dead girl as a prop while posing for the cameras?
GM: Oh God. Like fake acting with the child?
Me: Yes. something like that. But I chose to believe the first explanation at first. That this is nothing but a misunderstanding with digital timers, until I saw this video this morning.
GM: Why? What was in it?
Me: Well, the video showed that guy putting the little girl on a stretcher inside the ambulance, and then looks at the camera and points to the guy to continue filming. He then comes back, wears his green helmet, they pull the girl out of the ambulence..
GM: No…
Me: and he then moves her to another stretcher, tells everybody to back out of the shot and shows the dead girl's face for the camera.
GM (grief stricken): Oh No..
Me: And watching that made me wonder. Don't we have, in our culture, in our religion, the concept of the sanctity of the dead (7ormat el Mowt)? I mean, I udnerstand that those were killed by isarelis and that those people just want to show the world what the isarelis do, but don't we have respect for the dead? Don't we make sure, when someone dies and we wash them up, that no one, but those who wash him/her, get to see the body?
GM: No, you are right. You are a hundred percet right. The dead have sanctity. They always did. We never showed the dead bodies of our people like that back in the 60's and 50's. It wasn't even a question.
Me: Then what happend? When did this become Ok?
GM: I don't know. It's the media. This new media. That's what they like. That's what makes them happy.
Me: But their media doesn't do that. The Israeli media never shows pictures of their or our dead. Neither do the western media in general. Remember 9/11?
GM: Yes.
Me:Rememebr how they kept repeating the footage of the plane hitting the building, and of the peoplejumping from the building. But they never showed them hitting the ground and dying, did they?
GM: No. No, they never did!
Me:And they never did show a single body of thsoe 3000 americans who died, out of respect to their death. Or how about the british media at 7/7, when they had those bombs go off at their subway and buses? Always showed a picture of the Destroyed Bus or the subway station, but never the dead bodies.
GM: That's true.
Me: But when Qana happend, what did our media do? What did Al Jazeera do? They showed the video of the dead babies every 20 seconds. Over and over again. I counted.
GM: Yes, yes don't remind me. I remember.
Me: You know what was thw worst part of that Video I saw today was? When they showed you the baby, they made sure to cover her face digitally. That hurt. That was a slap on the face. The video showing us exploiting our dead and the german media respecting them.
GM: the German media did the right thing. It's not right to show them like that.
Me: IT's wrong. Its pornographic. It's like they are going: Dead babies, dead babies , who wants to see dead babies? We have dead babies and children and we always love to show them to you at every chance we get.
GM: (silently whimpers)
Me: You know, I have a friend I was spekaing to today. He works in investment. His job entails reading the egyptian newspapers at work. He tells me that he can no longer do his job, because his desk is now coverd by newspaper showing pictures of dead babies. That's what he has to see everyday.
GM: Ya 7aram yabny. (That poor kid)
Me: But its never enough. They always have to show them to you, at every opprutunity. It's pornographic. It's obscene! How come people don't say something abou this? Why don't they tell the media to stop? That this is wrong? That the dead should be respected, not exploited? Howcome no one says anything? What happend to 7ormat el Mowt? What happend to us?
GM (looks at me sadly): Al Donia Bazet. (The world has gone wrong!)
sigh…
August 11th, 2006 at 2:44 pm
When you have photographer coming from all over the planet, it’s possible that they use different time settings.
August 11th, 2006 at 2:47 pm
SM,
You are following an Israeli conspiracy theory, very typical of an Egyptian
August 11th, 2006 at 2:52 pm
Twosret, READ THE POST AGAIN!
August 11th, 2006 at 2:52 pm
Right! It’s an Israeli conspiracy to photograph the dead and post them all over the internet. Arabs do no wrong - they are always the ones who are wronged.
Bin Laden is just part of the CIA conspiracy. The “muslims” didn’t commit the terrorist act on 9/11. Poor poor Muslims!
Precisely why my Muslim husband never wants to return to the ME..
August 11th, 2006 at 3:01 pm
http://www.zombietime.com/reuters_photo_fraud...
http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110008...
Jan
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N073...
http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.pl ?
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/184206.php
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L063...
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/005687.htm
August 11th, 2006 at 3:02 pm
Wow, you’re a brave desert bipedal hominid.
The reason this story is important is that allowing anyone to use dead children as props and propaganda encourages more dead children. Not that your point on the sanctity of the dead is invalid or anything, just that any such scam (if it is one) means dead kids provide a military advantage. The EU, UN, and almost the entire world reacted so quickly, without thinking, that it was successful beyond imagination. Most people will never know any different. The media never follows up with the intensity it originally reports unless it’s, say, pictures of Iraqis wearing leashes. Which, by the way, is called art in New York and Los Angeles. Context, context.
August 11th, 2006 at 3:05 pm
And will Al-Jazeera have the guts to show this video?
August 11th, 2006 at 3:07 pm
The tragedy that the Issies created at Qana is not forrgivable by a simple “Oh whoops sorry folks!.
But what we see here is an exploitation of that tragedy. I think that is what our host is saying here.
Really this blog would be much more interesting if people would go back commenting on the Sandmonkey’s original post instead of commenting on the comments. So forget my opinion. Please do not comment on it.
August 11th, 2006 at 3:27 pm
What does it change if some guy decided to exploit the tragedy for some PR?
Does it make the Israeli act more jutifiable? Does it exhonerate them from the responsibility?
Its not like the guy killed the babies and is puting the blame on the Israelis, he is just showing the world what they did. Maybe its not very appropriate, but judging from the world’s reaction and the 48 hrs cease fire that resulted from the international outrage, I say this guy has indirectly helped save the life of 60 innocent Lebanese civilians ( 30 being the average number of civilian casualties per day).
August 11th, 2006 at 3:35 pm
I donnow, on one hand it is despicable and disrespectful to the dead.
But if that will mean less people will die if those picture are published and shown, if this disrespect is making the world say no to the war and save the lives of other people then I think the sanctity of life is much more important than the sanctity of death.
Yes shame on him for holding that dead child and parading him in front of the camera, but if that act has helped end the war and spared the live of a another child then my I donnow if it is still wrong.
Also did you really tell your grandma “pornographic” ?
August 11th, 2006 at 3:36 pm
before the flames start pouring, about my previous post, I am not saying it is ok, I am saying if it did contribute to ending the war it might be ok.
August 11th, 2006 at 3:37 pm
Yeah dude, she is cool like that.
August 11th, 2006 at 3:40 pm
Anonymous Leb, one more thing. I get your point, but I am just wondering if we have reached this stage where our values- and respect for the dead always was a big one of our values- have become so compromised, you know? I mean, where are we ethically, religiously or spiritirually, if we become ok with parading the dead around just because it might save a life or two?
August 11th, 2006 at 3:41 pm
Dead kids as propaganda. The more photogenic, the better.
Problem is that people get insensitized after a while. No shock value anymore.
August 11th, 2006 at 3:59 pm
Anonymous Leb:
Another thing to question here: is the purpose of exploiting the dead children really defensive in purpose, or are they being used as a weapon? In other words: are these videos intended to end the war, or to recruit more fighters?
August 11th, 2006 at 4:00 pm
I’m very glad you wrote this post, because as a Jewish Israeli I did not want to touch the subject with the proverbial 10 foot pole.
I have stopped reading most of the Arab blogs because of those photos - those pornographic images of death. I have seen enough mutilated bodies in real life, at the sites of suicide bombings in Israel. I’ve smelled them, too. I don’t need to be reminded of that and I certainly cannot stand the idea that some cynical, heartless people are using the bodies of children to make a political point.
One of the things that makes me particularly ill about this war is the “who’s suffering more contest.” As my sister said, I wonder what the prize for that is?
August 11th, 2006 at 4:00 pm
I beleive this is the only thing a hopeless nation can do. We have nothing in our hands to do, we are desperate for help. They are seeking support by any means possible.
So as not to be misunderstood, I totally support Hezb Allah. What I meant was, we have no political influence whatsoever in the world, so we beg for compassion.
August 11th, 2006 at 4:08 pm
A conscious human being is never completely helpless: at the very least he or she always has the choice of how to respond. Viktor Frankl said it, not me.
August 11th, 2006 at 4:19 pm
Stan
Its not like the guy killed the babies and is puting the blame on the Israelis
One, how do we know that? “Martyrdom” is their sales pitch.
Two, why evacuate civilians if dead civilians are your best weapon both in the news and on the battlefield? The Israelis give multiple heads up to Hizballah before every attack to avoid civilian casualties. They actually try to distinguish non-uniformed “soldiers” from “civilians.” But the fact is, non-uniformed soldiers are illegal combatants and could be executed on the spot per the Geneva Conventions. Hiding among civilians does not give anyone protection or everyone will hide among civilians.
Should Israel put Lebanese kids on the front of their tanks?
August 11th, 2006 at 4:23 pm
Yes, it is pornographic. I pointed this out to my ex-friend over at “The Truth Shall Set You Free.” I called her a pornographer.
The reason for this, is that they are happy when children die. They won’t admit it, but they are. Because it furthers their propogandistic purposes. That is the sad and brutal truth of it all. When Israelis die, it is a cause for celebration. But it is equally true that they cry crocodile tears when one of theirs die. They don’t really care about their children, because if they did, they wouldn’t tell them that Shahid is the most honorable thing in the world. They wouldn’t preach hatred in the way they do. That is the worst form of child abuse one can inflict.
If they really were upset when someone dies from an Israeli attack, they would show it by respecting the dead, and respecting life, and not using it for cynical propoganda.
August 11th, 2006 at 4:29 pm
Oh, and my grandma had a degree in sexual psychotherapy. You would be surprised what some grandmas are like. Damn I miss her.
August 11th, 2006 at 4:38 pm
Chip, I will ignore your cliche-like answer.
As for your question:
“Should Israel put Lebanese kids on the front of their tanks?”
Apparently they do.
Here is a small paragraph from B’tselem report on IDF incident in Beit Hanun:
After seizing control of the buildings, the soldiers held six residents, two of them minors, on the staircases of the two buildings, at the entrance to rooms in which the soldiers positioned themselves, for some twelve hours. During this time, there were intense exchanges of gunfire between the soldiers and armed Palestinians. The soldiers also demanded that one of the occupants walk in front of them during a search of all the apartments in one of the buildings, after which they released her.
Full report is found here:
http://www.btselem.org/english/Human_Shields/20060720_Human_Shields_in_Beit_Hanun.asp
I I know that Amnesty and HRW are anti-semitic Islamo fascist organizations. So I hope that B’tselem is reliable enough for you.
August 11th, 2006 at 4:39 pm
I wonder how many lives would have been saved if hezbollah could not use dead children and “civilians” as propaganda material. Their fighting tactics would have to be completely different.
How many lives would have been saved if the world media refused to act as a willing propaganda helper?
And how many lives would have been saved if UN diplomats would not act because of propaganda images, but because of reasonable political considerations?
August 11th, 2006 at 4:42 pm
What I want to know is, how did those children whose corpses were being used as photographic props at Qana actually die? What did they really die of?
Did you see the story of the child in Gaza who died from falling off a swing, and was then photographed in somebody’s arms as a victim of an Israeli attack?
Did any children at all die at Qana?
How many civilians have really died in Lebanon? How many Hezb’allah fighters have died?
Throughout history, the numbers of warriors dying in battles have always been greatly exaggerated.
August 11th, 2006 at 4:42 pm
Is this why some people call Islam the death cult? Just asking.
August 11th, 2006 at 4:45 pm
“So as not to be misunderstood, I totally support Hezb Allah. What I meant was, we have no political influence whatsoever in the world, so we beg for compassion”
Maybe the next bomb will land on your head:)
If you want compassion you should stop attacking other countries and act like a civilized human being.
August 11th, 2006 at 4:46 pm
“I beleive this is the only thing a hopeless nation can do. We have nothing in our hands to do, we are desperate for help.”
But Hezb’allah and Iran are not “hopeless nations”. They are very well equipped and formidable fighting forces.
August 11th, 2006 at 4:47 pm
#22 Some guy using my name
Chip, I will ignore your cliche-like answer.
I’ll ignore you completely. That’s the answer of someone who can’t answer.
August 11th, 2006 at 4:56 pm
So, in order to get the international world opinion behind your case, you just go to a childrens hospital,.. open the fridges… get out the corpses,… put them in rubble,… let the press make pictures of them,… no matter to exploit and abuse the bodies of the little children,.. it’s for the greater cause, no? And,.. wooopppah,.. the international community is outrageous at your enemy,.. how dare you to kill children just like that?
What I wrote above is a [b]hypothetical[/b] situation, but not unthinkable. The media should be REALLY careful and investigate what has going on before they just send pictures and stories for the public. The media is there to show reality, not propaganda. Especially in times of war the media should be more careful.
It is good that the bloggers and the German press (no Israeli conspiracy here) found out about the exploitation of dead bodies “green helmet” - but what is next,.. the whole scene had been staged? Qana II never happened? Who knows now what is real and what is not? How can we be so sure that what we see is real? It is scary that these questions come up, but I can’t help it.
To be honest,.. all this manipulation and staging stuff makes every news item coming from Lebanon less sincere, and I trust those news reports less.
Is that what those propagandists want?
August 11th, 2006 at 4:58 pm
I wonder:
1. It’s expoloitation of the dead. Wonder how much these photographers and film crews were paid?
2. No doubt false intelligence was to blame for the tragedy. I wonder who provided the intelligence that HA was hiding in the building?
3. It is well known that HA has an extensive network of bunkers and tunnels, some of which are air-conditioned. I wonder, why aren’t civilians using the bomb-shelters while HA is fighting? Why is it the wrong way around?
August 11th, 2006 at 5:00 pm
Sandmonkey,
Beautiful, moving writing. I had tears and I chose not to view the photographs. Respect for the dead - indeed, yes.
And I love your grandmother!
Speaking of Hezbollah - has anyone heard about Iran’s threat(?) of a final answer regarding their nuclear program coming up on August 22nd? Isn’t this why this whole war started in the first place? (To cover up Iran’s refusal to comply with the UN) Remember?
“Should the United States and Israel be on high alert? Two weeks from today, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has implied that he will give his final answer to the U.S. about his country’s nuclear program by August 22nd.
Now, August 22nd also has great significance on the Islamic calendar. It’s a day when Muslims believe that Prophet Muhammad road a winged horse, first to Jerusalem and then to Heaven and back.”
August 11th, 2006 at 5:04 pm
Hmmmm?
August 11th, 2006 at 5:07 pm
“I wonder how many lives would have been saved if hezbollah could not use dead children and “civilians” as propaganda material. Their fighting tactics would have to be completely different.
How many lives would have been saved if the world media refused to act as a willing propaganda helper?
And how many lives would have been saved if UN diplomats would not act because of propaganda images, but because of reasonable political considerations?”
Along a similar vein Chris - How many lives would have been saved if Hizb Allah had been disarmed in accordance with UNR 1559? Oh that’s right - over 1000.
August 11th, 2006 at 5:11 pm
@Bec, the ironic thing is that Jerusalem is not mentioned in the Quran, nor that it was any important; untill it became politically. A mosque was built where the jewish temple was, and it was called the furthest mosque; referring to a passage in the Quran:
[17:1] Most glorified is the One who summoned His servant (Muhammad) during the night, from the Sacred Masjid (of Mecca) to the farthest place of prostration, whose surroundings we have blessed, in order to show him some of our signs. He is the Hearer, the Seer.
August 11th, 2006 at 5:14 pm
@Chip, i dont think it is a bad thing to call for an investigation into this matter.
August 11th, 2006 at 5:16 pm
Anyway, whatever had happened and however those children found their death - I just hope these children have found their eventually rest. I feel sorry for them. Not only to have died at this young age, but also being abused this way.
August 11th, 2006 at 5:31 pm
If it was my children or nieces or nephews, I would mourn their deaths and wouldn’t have any time to show their corpse to the media. I would be selfish. I would hold them close and not show them to anyone.
http://peatbog.net/wp-content/uploads/2005/12/In%20His%20Arms.jpg
August 11th, 2006 at 5:34 pm
#35 Suzanne
If you mean the Isreali incident, of course there will be an exhaustive investigation with countless media reports detailing every rumor and innuendo. If Hizballah kills civilians on purpose that’s just what they do.
August 11th, 2006 at 5:34 pm
Why do the e and a in Israel switch seemingly on their own?
August 11th, 2006 at 5:40 pm
@Bec, the ironic thing is that Jerusalem is not mentioned in the Quran
Is this accurate? I have a lot to learn!
Although the Koran does not mention the name “Jerusalem”, Islamic tradition holds that it was from Jerusalem that the Prophet Muhammad ascended to heaven in the Night Journey, or Isra. The city was one of the Arab empire’s first conquests in 638 AD; according to Arab historians of the time, the Caliph Umar ibn al-Khattab personally went to the city to receive its submission, cleaning out and praying at the Temple Mount in the process. Sixty years later, the Dome of the Rock was built, a structure in which there lies the stone where Muhammad is said to have tethered his mount Buraq during the Isra. This is also reputed to be the place where Abraham went to sacrifice his son (Isaac in the Jewish tradition, Ishmael in the Muslim one.) Note that the octagonal and gold-sheeted Dome is not the same thing as the Al-Aqsa Mosque beside it, which was built more than three centuries later.
August 11th, 2006 at 5:44 pm
Oh noooo. I hope I didn’t just create an attack of the italics! Sorry!
August 11th, 2006 at 5:46 pm
Qana is the tip of the iceberg by the way.
The wire services are faking so much news it’s almost hard to believe, almost. I’ve seen it for years, but I have a nose for this sort of thing.
August 11th, 2006 at 6:20 pm
Arab media shows more dead people than the American media. I think it’s all part of the spin. “Look at the evil baby killers!” And then say the report is objective. They don’t show dead Israeli babies or dead Americans like they do dead Arabs. It envokes sympathy. It makes the report emotionally moving for the readers, they get a personal connection and say “that is somebody like my little girl/brother/etc” and want to read more and see more of the conflict because it is relatable to them. It’s very sad, I don’t like seeing those pictures, it brings back memories from when I was younger of things like that. They should at least have a policy like in the US where you don’t show faces of dead bodies. I think it is very disrespectful, especially if you falsify or misrepresent the context (like little Mohammed ad-Dura). It just makes people angry and/or sad. That is war, but that doesn’t make it right to use little people to get ratings or just to piss people off for them.
August 11th, 2006 at 6:21 pm
Sand Monkey,
Basically…
well done.
Great post. Great points.
If we scream so much about how this war is about “dignity” and “honour”, the pornographic use of corpses strips us of any hope of honour and dignity.
August 11th, 2006 at 6:22 pm
@Bec, http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/TOPICI.HTM
August 11th, 2006 at 6:30 pm
Suzanne -
I see what you mean. There’s no topic for “Jerusalem”! And 111 lines for “Night Journey” which I couldn’t make out. Yikes.
August 11th, 2006 at 6:38 pm
@Bec, to make it more odd: it is highly doubtfull there was a mosque during Mohammeds life.
August 11th, 2006 at 6:38 pm
Haga Tikrif!! The Israeli PM gave a speech and mentioned this stuff in it, and actually used the Arab media’s stupidity to his advatage….Wallahey we are the biggest Himir….Som3itna zay elzift everywhere!!
if you wanna see the ISraeli PM’s speech where he plays on the arab medias gruesome pictures, go here
http://www.modernpharaoh.blogspot.com
August 11th, 2006 at 6:39 pm
In Jerusalem I mean
August 11th, 2006 at 6:41 pm
ask yourself this…
(if HB and the rest of the World’s media is in a frenzy to show the faces of dead childred and we’re being told at least 30 children died at Qana:)
How come all the recent Qana photos are of the same 3-5 dead children? Doesnt that make you wonder?
August 11th, 2006 at 6:52 pm
This is probably the best summary, updated frequently.
August 11th, 2006 at 6:55 pm
Modern Pharaoh,
Thanks for the video very good one indeed on your blog. Keep blogging.
August 11th, 2006 at 6:55 pm
“So as not to be misunderstood, I totally support Hezb Allah. What I meant was, we have no political influence whatsoever in the world, so we beg for compassion.”
Oh really? Was it compasion that led Samir Kuntar to bash in the head of a 4 yr old girl? He is one of the “resistance” fighters that HizbAllah want’s released. There are some HizbAllah supporters that claim the Hanan’s (the father and daughter that were killed) were legitimate targets and that Kuntar is a political prisoner. Tell me, how exactly is a 4 year old a ‘legitimate target’?
August 11th, 2006 at 7:07 pm
Thanks for the video of that giant idiot, Modern Pharaoh. I guess that guy thinks that Samir Kuntar is a war hero.
August 11th, 2006 at 7:13 pm
#48 Modern Pharoah
You need a new propaganda film. Israel has withdrawn from “territories” occupied in 1967. If you knew anything about 242 you’d know that Israel’s legitimate security interest in not getting overwhelmed by its violent and giant Arab neighbors were a factor to many of the nations which drafted the resolution. It was never an all-or-nothing resolution.
By the way, when will Cristendom get back the 2/3’s conquered by Muslims in the Seventh and Eighth Centuries? Just a rhetorical question.
But, hey, Arab-Muslims once conqured Israel so you should fight until the end of time to get it back. That’s what the books and beards say. Good thing the British don’t have your attitude, cuz the way the world is going I’d probably try to join their army.
August 11th, 2006 at 7:28 pm
“By the way, when will Cristendom get back the 2/3’s conquered by Muslims in the Seventh and Eighth Centuries?”
.. or Greece get back Turkey and Persia (Iran)?
.. or Mexico get back Texas?
.. or the US get back Cuba and the Philippines?
.. or the Iroquoi get back New England and upstate New York?
.. or the Aztecs get back Mexico?
.. or the Inca’s get back Ecuador, Bolivia, Argentina, Peru and Columbia?
.. or Spain get back most of the above?
….
August 11th, 2006 at 7:29 pm
This stuff never ends.
It’s so obvious because the toys are right out of the bag on piles of rubble filled with dust. In the future they’ll smear the toys with dust.
August 11th, 2006 at 7:33 pm
That moved me to tears. Thankyou, thankyou
August 11th, 2006 at 7:52 pm
Dan Irving #56
Watch out. My first post here made this very point and I was immediately clobbered for it and accused of hiding the Native American Holocaust. After which I told said person that I was Native American myself and then he told me I was brainwashed… Hmm. Come to think of it, I believe that was Cadavre. Nevermind…
Modern Pharoah - that MySpace blog you linked to was a nut! Of course it was all in red with tiny black print, so maybe I was missing something???
August 11th, 2006 at 7:53 pm
“post” sorry! “comment”
August 11th, 2006 at 7:57 pm
That’s disgusting. It’s disgusting that it happened at all, and it’s disgusting to pose the bodies for the camera like that.
But one thing about the western media not showing bodies - I think that that’s as much done for the sake of propaganda as out of respect. I think it’s done to get people to support the ‘war on terrorism’, as we might realize that dead people look like dead people and not OMG ISLAMIC FASCISTS!!!1
From experience, American news (and history classes, etc.) is all very sanitized.
August 11th, 2006 at 8:00 pm
Bec,
Heh - I was trolled by Cadavre my first post here also. For a corpse he/she/it sure is pretty animated.
August 11th, 2006 at 8:00 pm
> And watching that made me wonder. Don’t we have, in our culture, in our
> religion, the concept of the sanctity of the dead (7ormat el Mowt)?
Brilliant.
Really an interesting attempt - oh my dear house nigger - to blame
the death - murdered by the brethren of the zionazi crowd here - and
the survivors for exposing their nazi-ethics.
When the jews are showing and posing with their death - slaugh-
tered in the 40’s - 365 days per year, that’s a must!
But to show the ones, that these jews slaughtered yesterday -
that’s a violation of your - well - what?
You’re not only an average house nigger - you’re a filthy hyena.
August 11th, 2006 at 8:03 pm
SM,
The problem extends far beyond the painful issue of treatment of the dead. It extends to the very credibility of these war reports.. They now lack an inherent trustworthiness.
August 11th, 2006 at 8:10 pm
Kyla,
The lack of corpses on TV in America didn’t start with the “War on Terror”. It is a long standing standard to respect the dead, who cannot give their consent to be shown on TV.
Imagine if you were the mother of a child morbidly displayed for others’ viewing “pleasure”. Imagine if that were your loved one goulishly held up for public display like that. You wouldn’t want it. And so, American media doesn’t show corpses for that reason too - respect for the living.
It would be nice if Arab media respected Arabs as well.
August 11th, 2006 at 8:28 pm
Dan Irving -
(Claps hand over mouth) Oh, shoot. I think I just brought eee into this. I think he/she and Cadavre might be related. Shhh.
August 11th, 2006 at 8:56 pm
Klya stated:
“But one thing about the western media not showing bodies - I think that that’s as much done for the sake of propaganda as out of respect. I think it’s done to get people to support the ‘war on terrorism’, as we might realize that dead people look like dead people and not OMG ISLAMIC FASCISTS!!!1
From experience, American news (and history classes, etc.) is all very sanitized.”
Yes, it is, but as anonon in #65 pointed out, not because of propaganda. Years ago between undergrad and grad schools, I worked for a bit over a year as a newspaper wire-editor and proofer. One of the cardinal rules at our publishing house was no photos of the dead. Ever. I nearly got fired early on because I let a photo of a private plane crash run that still had the body of the passenger in the plane. You could barely see it, and what you could see was hard to identify as human remains, but it was there. I had a LONG chewing out by the editor in chief over this, and only kept the job because of my lack of experience as a mitigating circumstance.
August 11th, 2006 at 9:07 pm
Arab criticism of Hizballah has mostly been silenced by the endless loop of staged horror-fests. These pornographic scenes are katyusha rockets fired point blank at the rationality and realism of Arab moderates in an attempt to destroy that rationality. Western media are exploited as a reliable, believable vehicle for these scenes.
Nobody can watch this stuff without becoming enraged and full of hate, and therefore easy for Hizballah and others to manipulate. After a few loops of this, people are ready to accept any action Hizballah takes as “resistance”, even if it is deliberately targeting a hospital in Haifa.
Whether in peace or in wartime, showing such carnage (and even showing it to kids!) is intensely destructive, leading to intense hatred and rage, even among people not directly involved in the conflict. One of the worst impacts is that it achieves what the extremists most want: the people who do not need to pay the price of the conflict adopt extremist, hate-filled positions that perpetuate the conflict and therefore perpetuate the power of the extremists.
Iran, Syria and Hizballah are declaring victory. Let’s not make any mistake here. They ARE winning — because their REAL enemy, the one that they are actually defeating, is the sanity of the Muslim world.
You’re not going to see the Israelis exploit the Arab mother and son who died the other day in this way, and if (Gd forbid) my Israeli Jewish cousins in Haifa die, you won’t see Israel exploit them like this. The truth is that the Israeli way of war tries wherever possible to minimize total casualties, period, but doesn’t always succeed. In contrast, the Iranian way of war (Remember how Iran fought Iraq? Remember the hundreds of thousands of Iranian civilians sent into the Iraqi mine fields? Remember Rafsanjani’s comment that a nuclear war with Israel would be acceptable because the Muslim world would survive the loss of several million Iranians? Now consider from which military Hizballah leaders learned warfare) is indiscriminate bloodshed coupled with media manipulation.
Sophisticated extremists have identified some weak points in the way news is reported in the modern world, and are exploiting these weaknesses in order to control the perceptions of billions of people.
I concur with your grandmother’s assessment at the end of your post.
August 11th, 2006 at 9:13 pm
Don Cox et all, 1800 murdered people were delivered to morgues in Baghdad
last month.That is in ONE MONTH !!
How many people have been killed in Lebanon during a war? sofar? both sides
added together? Talk about proportionality.
August 11th, 2006 at 9:14 pm
Howard, well said. Uchuck, thanks for the background. It’s one of those things U.S. citizens take for granted. We forget that others might not understand this respect. Uchuck, any idea when this first became media policy? I remember graphic pictures from the Old West and Civil War. Not much from WWI or II, though.
August 11th, 2006 at 9:21 pm
What about the sanctity of killing?
Has the ‘world gone wrong’ by the killed? This doesn’t make sense SM.
August 11th, 2006 at 9:22 pm
this blog is full of bigots, but when the author is himself a bigot, what else can we expect?
August 11th, 2006 at 9:27 pm
SM,
You quote your grandma? She’s probably too tired to carry a conversation on for much longer.
I mean, ‘the world has gone wrong’ is a statement we say in our societies to wrap up a conversation we are too tired to go on with.
August 11th, 2006 at 9:38 pm
Elwad Belya - you support a genocidal terrorist organization of raving barbarians bent on world domination and you demand compassion ?
How about a bullet in the head, instead?
Cheeky terrorist.
August 11th, 2006 at 9:40 pm
Who gives a shit if this was rehearsed so that people could get a better view. It’s important for the world to see the carnage being caused. Israeli media has no problem repeating footage of the aftermaths of suicide bombs in Israel do they? What’s the difference? The point is the same. There were still dozens of innocent civilians, mostly children, barbarically murdered by the IDF at Qana. These children are dead, they don’t care if they’re being used for the cameras. And honestly, it doesn’t make a difference.
August 11th, 2006 at 10:10 pm
@Mideastbeast, you don’t see dead people after a suicide bombing on telly in Israel.
And the way you put it is like if the IDF went there and killed every kid with a knife by cutting its throat.
Might be as well that these kids were human shield or even that the whole scene has been staged and that these kids died in some other way. Who is to blame? Who knows what Hezbollah’s PR men are up to?
But go ahead. Put your blindfold on. Continu believing that no pictures had been manipulated, no staging had been done even though more and more proof of this is available every day and that corpses of children have been exploited and abused.
August 11th, 2006 at 10:13 pm
“But one thing about the western media not showing bodies - I think that that’s as much done for the sake of propaganda as out of respect. I think it’s done to get people to support the ‘war on terrorism’, as we might realize that dead people look like dead people and not OMG ISLAMIC FASCISTS!!!”
That makes a lot of sense, considering how strongly the editorial pages of every major newspaper and folks like Dan Rather (CBS), Peter Jennings and Ted Koppel (ABC) and others have been supporting George W. Bush.
Wait, can’t really put my finger on it, but I think there may be something wrong with that last paragraph. Anyone care to pinpoint it for me?
August 11th, 2006 at 10:31 pm
mideastbeast you are absolutely incorrect! You may see pictures of the damage done to the building and the streets but you will NOT see bodies. If you know of a place that shows them please tell me where. Actually, never mind, my bullshit detector went off and I had to post.
August 11th, 2006 at 10:34 pm
Akiva,
LOL . Can we now add Mike Wallace to that distinguished list?
August 11th, 2006 at 10:56 pm
Mideastbeast,
I agree. It doesn’t matter that the families who lived in that building were reputed to have left, and that the women and children who were killed were told to go there by HA, who then proceeded to fire missles at Israeli civilian targets from that location in order to cynically provoke a response. It doesn’t matter that one of the photographers on the scene has been demonstrated to be a fraud, or that one of the principal rescuers has been caught on videotape manipulating bodies to maximize the propaganda value of the photos. It doesn’t matter that there are obvious inconsistencies between the appearances of the victims and the story of the building collapse.
The only thing that matters is that the Jews are evil zionazis bent on destroying all vestiges of Arab life (or is it Muslim life?) to maximize the profits of BushHitlerburtonChimpy and Wolfowitz’s Jew-infiltrated World Bank.
And anyone who can’t see this is a bigotted Zionist pig (or perhaps just a witless Crusader who has been brainwashed by the American Jew-controlled media).
I’m with you, Mideastbeast, every step of the way. Shoulder-to-shoulder.
Where’s that eee? I love that guy!
August 11th, 2006 at 11:10 pm
> It doesn’t matter that one of the photographers on the scene has been demonstrated to be a fraud …
Demonstrated to be a fraud?
Tell me - filthy asshole - how that was demonstrated?
And the zionazis owe their simplest and cheapest hasbara-
trick - repeat the same lie again and again - to?
Yes - Goebbels.
August 11th, 2006 at 11:18 pm
eee,… go filthy some other blog and let people discuss here in an adult way.
August 11th, 2006 at 11:19 pm
Suzanna, does it matter how these kids died? We know they were hit by IDF missiles. This was a shelter for two families. It was destroyed by the IDF. That is a death. The death was perpetrated by the IDF. The Israeli gov’t admitted it, which is why they called a 48 hour pause in airstrikes in the wake of it. Would they have done so had they not been responsible?
Watch CNN or FOX News cover suicide bombs and you definitely see people being wheeled into ambulances and women running around with blood all over their faces. What’s wrong with TV viewers being subject to reality- the horrors of war? I know its in your best interest to keep believing that war is beautiful and that the 600 dead Lebanese children either don’t exist or suffered painless deaths. Give me a break. Start living in the real world.
Brooklyn Jon, don’t insult my intelligence. This was no an act perpetrated by HA and it obviously was not an IDF attack on HA BECAUSE NOT A SINGLE HEZBOLLAH MEMBER WAS KILLED. If HA was hiding among these civilians and using them as human shields, you’d think at least one HA member would be among the dead. They’re not. So don’t give your bullshit propaganda that absolves Israel of any involvement in the bombs it drops.
August 11th, 2006 at 11:19 pm
Suzanne, if eee leaves so should 80% of the other commenters who filth up this blog with their own sick-minded denial propaganda. That goes for people on both sides.
August 11th, 2006 at 11:28 pm
[...] The controversy surrounding Qana Sandmonkey covers it [...]
August 11th, 2006 at 11:38 pm
ME beast,
And I know that there were no HA killed because…
Israel paused to investigate, stated that their intelligence was that there were no civilians in th building, and expressed regret for the deaths of civilians.
Like you, I grieve for the deaths of innocents. But to deny HA’s role in this, is to be blind, frankly. And to accept at face value the reports of fraudulent photojournalists is to be willfully blind.
August 11th, 2006 at 11:40 pm
> and let people discuss here in an adult way.
I am really Um Khalil!
August 11th, 2006 at 11:46 pm
And we know Adnan Hajj’s photos to be a fraud because Reuters was forced to admit it.
As for Reuters’ manipulation of photographic evidence, I refer you here: http://www.zombietime.com/reuters_photo_fraud/
As for “rescue workers” manipulating the scenes of carnage for optimal propaganda, I refer you here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vPAkc5CLgc
This doesn’t discount from the suffering of innocent Lebanese. Like all people of good will, I grieve for the suffering innocents on both sides. I feel terrible for the displacement and destruction on both sides.
But if my unwillingness to suspend my disbelief makes me a “filthy asshole,” so be it.
August 11th, 2006 at 11:52 pm
Mideastbeast: no-one can beat eeee
furthermore: it does not matter how many have been killed as each one of them is one too many. But it DOES matter HOW they have been killed. You are so sure the IDF is to blame for this whole scene, but how can you explain that the building collapsed about at least 7 hours after the bombing next to the building?
The staging of some people there in front of the photographers (of which there is video proof) makes the whole scene not thrustworthy. I am sorry.
Furthermore, I thought we were talking about Israeli press. I do not receive Fox News, by the way.
And last but not least: using civilians as human shields does not mean that you will become a victim yourself: after all,.. those civilians are your shields, no?
You hide near a building with your mobile rocket launchers, shoot some kathushas and off you go,.. hiding in some safe place. IDF bombs there where the shooting came from and woops,.. civillians deaths. That is what is meant with human shields.
August 11th, 2006 at 11:56 pm
“NOT A SINGLE HEZBOLLAH MEMBER WAS KILLED”
… and why is that? Oh that’s right - they were in the bomb shelters that should have been used to secure the women and children. They fire their missles, drive the launcher into the apartment where they know women and children are being housed, then scamper away like they nutless assmunchers that they are.
August 11th, 2006 at 11:59 pm
Well said, Suzanne!
The UN just passed its Resolution!
August 12th, 2006 at 12:02 am
Oh come on Dan, you have no basis for such an accusation.
August 12th, 2006 at 12:13 am
If you want to criticize news coverage and propoganda, there is plenty of examples from both sides. There has been 800+ lebanese killed of which 1/3 are children. There has been 100+ israelis killed most have been soldiers.
I don’t agree with disrespecting the dead. I don’t agree with shelling civilians (with Katyushias or with smart bombs) be it by Israel or Hizbollah. I think what both are doing is dispicable. But did it occur to your that the world needs to see what is going on? It is really easy to dismiss a war that is taking place if all you see is the rubble or the number of the dead. It is entirely different when you see the face of those who are dying. It is one thing to hear about children dying, and another feeling that overcomes you when you see their lifeless bodies. For those who are doubting how these people/kids died, I think you might want to look at what you are seeing closely. They are digging their bodies from under the rubble, not pulling them out of a morgue. (The person that made this claim is denying the truth in order to shield their conscience and justify their bigoted views)
I also recall seeing the body of an Israeli man killed by a rocket who’s wife was calling him on the cell phone, and his wife hysterical. They also showed the bloodied body of an dead israeli man on a stretcher.
I will give you an example that I hope you might understand:
In the period of 1915-1923, 1.5 million armenians were slaughtered by the turks (see http://www.armenian-genocide.org/). Worldwide, hardly anyone knows about it. Why? Because their pictures and stories were not published for the whole world to see. But the whole world knows about the Holocaust because the story of the victims was told and continues to be told. The pictures of bodies piled in graves were shown for all to see. Once you see the pictures, they are embedded in your conscience. You can’t deny it happened.
That is why I think it is important to see the pictures, to see the face of those being killed so that the conscience of the world can’t dismiss it. If you don’t agree with how the picture was taken - fine. Just don’t dismiss the content of the picture.
It is the killing that breeds hatred on both sides not the pictures that tell the story.
August 12th, 2006 at 12:14 am
eee,
Here’s a reference to HA using the UN as human shilelds: http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=37278180-a261-421d-84a9-7f94d5fc6d50
although, you can more authoritatively get it from the UN themselves, if you want. I believe I posted about this some time ago.
Here’s Jan Egeland talking about Hezbollah’s “cowardly blending”. From Al Jazeera. Jew-Controlled Media?
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/46DACF37-AD07-4D14-A4EA-9F9B1909DE5D.htm
As for whether there were rockets fired from Qana prompting the Israeli response, the IDF provides this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aur_DmTIw70. Local Lebanese volunteers have said no. Who to believe? I suppose that depends on ones own preconceived notions of believability. But after the Reuters photojournalism fiasco, I certainly wouldn’t give them any greater credence than the IDF.
August 12th, 2006 at 12:15 am
Not for that single event no .. but I can point to numerous reports of Hizb’Allah launching attacks from within cities, next to civilians, next to UN outposts, etc. I can point to reports of HA shooting civilians trying to leave the combat zones. I can point to reports of HA shooting at UNFIL.
I can point to sources ad nauseum. Will it matter?