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Sunday, 13 Aug 2006
Samir Kuntar, in case you didn't know, is the main guy that Hezbollah kidnapped the 2 israeli soldiers to get back. This is how Hezbollah sees it:
Lebanese
media refer to Kuntar as the "dean" of Lebanese prisoners in Israel. He
has been in prison for 28 years, and Hizballah wants him out.Although
Kuntar was jailed for an attack launched by a Lebanon-based Palestinian
terrorist group before Hizballah was even established, Hizballah
depicts itself as the vanguard of the Islamic campaign against Israel
and regards winning freedom for the prisoners a "sacred duty."
What was he jailed for exactly?
In
the coastal town of Nahariya, the terrorists shot dead a policeman and
forced their way into an apartment building, where they captured Danny
Haran and his daughter, Einat, 4.While the terrorists rampaged
through the apartment, firing weapons and detonating grenades, Haran's
wife Smadar hid in a crawlspace above the couple's bedroom together
with their other daughter, two-year-old Yael, and a neighbor.In
an effort to prevent Yael from crying out and alerting the terrorists
to their whereabouts, Smadar kept her hand over the child's mouth, and
accidentally smothered her to death.Meanwhile Kuntar and his group took Danny and Einat Haran to the beach.
"There,
according to eyewitnesses, one of them shot Danny in front of Einat so
that his death would be the last sight she would ever see," Smadar
wrote later."Then he smashed my little girl's skull in against a rock with his rifle butt. That terrorist was Samir Kuntar."
Or you could read the account left by the only member of that family left, Danny's wife:
It had been a peaceful Sabbath day. My husband,
Danny, and I had picnicked with our little girls, Einat, 4, and Yael,
2, on the beach not far from our home in Nahariya, a city on the
northern coast of Israel, about six miles south of the Lebanese border.
Around midnight, we were asleep in our apartment when four terrorists,
sent by Abu Abbas from Lebanon, landed in a rubber boat on the beach
two blocks away. Gunfire and exploding grenades awakened us as the
terrorists burst into our building. They had already killed a police
officer. As they charged up to the floor above ours, I opened the door
to our apartment. In the moment before the hall light went off, they
turned and saw me. As they moved on, our neighbor from the upper floor
came running down the stairs. I grabbed her and pushed her inside our
apartment and slammed the door.Outside, we could hear the men storming about.
Desperately, we sought to hide. Danny helped our neighbor climb into a
crawl space above our bedroom; I went in behind her with Yael in my
arms. Then Danny grabbed Einat and was dashing out the front door to
take refuge in an underground shelter when the terrorists came crashing
into our flat. They held Danny and Einat while they searched for me and
Yael, knowing there were more people in the apartment. I will never
forget the joy and the hatred in their voices as they swaggered about
hunting for us, firing their guns and throwing grenades. I knew that if
Yael cried out, the terrorists would toss a grenade into the crawl
space and we would be killed. So I kept my hand over her mouth, hoping
she could breathe. As I lay there, I remembered my mother telling me
how she had hidden from the Nazis during the Holocaust. "This is just
like what happened to my mother," I thought.As police began to arrive, the terrorists took Danny
and Einat down to the beach. There, according to eyewitnesses, one of
them shot Danny in front of Einat so that his death would be the last
sight she would ever see. Then he smashed my little girl's skull in
against a rock with his rifle butt. That terrorist was Samir Kuntar.By the time we were rescued from the crawl space,
hours later, Yael, too, was dead. In trying to save all our lives, I
had smothered her.The next day, Abu Abbas announced from Beirut that the terrorist attack
in Nahariya had been carried out "to protest the signing of the
Egyptian-Israeli peace treaty" at Camp David the previous year.
This is the guy that Hezbollah did all of this for. And you know what sucks? He will get out, because Olmert now will negotiate to get the 2 prisoners back, which Hezbollah will release only in exchange for Kuntar. This guy, this child-killer will walk free and will be greeted as a Hero when he goes back to Lebanon.
Lebanese people who support Hezbollah, I hope he is worth it!
August 13th, 2006 at 11:06 pm
Hmmm. I have 3 practically simultanious reactions.
Rational: Olmert should be pretty worried about public opinion in Israel right now. I don’t for a moment think they would let him get away with releasing that monster. He has to know this. I don’t think it will happen.
Vindictive: If they do release him, beforehand they should secretly infect him with AIDS or something equally horrible. Syphilis, perhaps.
Zen: No matter what happens, he can’t live forever. In jail or as a free man, death will find him. And when it does, I’m sure god (or whomever) will have interesting plans for him.
August 13th, 2006 at 11:17 pm
A quick search on Samir Kuntar came up with the following:-
http://www.samirkuntar.org/files/About_Samir_Kuntar.htm
So between SM Israeli side of the story and this bio, we can conclude something in-between maybe?
August 13th, 2006 at 11:28 pm
Samir Kuntar dot org? lol
August 13th, 2006 at 11:40 pm
Twosret’s response–given 2 versions, “we can conclude something in between maybe” illustrates the unfortunate trend we Westerners have taken in the past generation. To Twosret, It simply can’t be the case that SM is telling the truth, because someone else has a different “narrative” (as they say). Truth doesn’t mean what it used to. Oprah can pronounce a book as “true,” even after the author himself admits he made things up, and to placate the Palestinians, France can record “Jerusalem” as Arafat’s true birthplace (on his death certificate) even though his birth had been duly recorded in Egypt at the time he was born.
In traditional, premodern cultures, “truth” can contradict fact. We are slipping into that mindset.
August 14th, 2006 at 12:00 am
The Historian,
So much of distrust of truth and facts between both sides that one has to dig more into what he is told.
Same happened with Golda Meir (the Israeli beast) when she claimed that “there are no Palestinians” never mind the FACT is there were 700,000 of them.
Oh well!
August 14th, 2006 at 12:11 am
Ariya,
Yes Menahem Begin the biggest terrorist does have a site doesn’t he? So why not Kuntar
and they are both .org lol
August 14th, 2006 at 12:52 am
A quote that’s always resonated with me:
“For a brief time I served in a small parish in England, and every Sunday after mass, I would see a young boy waiting at the back of the church. And then one day the boy confessed to me that he had beaten his dog to death with a shovel. He said the dog had bitten his baby sister on the cheek and he needed to protect her. And he wanted to know whether he would go to hell for this. I told him that god would understand, that he would be forgiven, as long as he was sorry. But the boy did not care about forgiveness. He was only afraid that if he did go to hell, that dog would be there waiting for him.”
August 14th, 2006 at 12:53 am
A bit of news:
Lebanon falters over truce detail
I would check the other news services, the BBC is biased against the west and anything good about it.
It’s Arab owned you know.
Papa Ray
West Texas
USA
August 14th, 2006 at 12:54 am
Poor old innocent Samir Kuntar.
I suppose Twos thinks the Israelis have been paying taxes to keep his ass alive and in their prisons for the past 28 years just to “stick it” to the Lebanese. Yup.
Also,
9/11 was concocted by Bush himself to go to war with Islam
Osama Bin Laden doesn’t really exist (but is still an Arab hero)
The latest “liquids” plot just uncovered in Britain was a Bush political strategy
Egyptair was shot down off the Coast of the US - it didn’t go down because a pilot lost his mind because (we all know) Egyptians don’t commit suicide because they are Muslims and Muslims don’t do that.
No….that last one was probably true. Muslims usually wait for their governments to kill them or countrymen from another. Usually the wait is not that long. It’s okay though, at least they get to be shoohede.
August 14th, 2006 at 12:54 am
My god… twosret you have no shame. Kuntar is a child murderer and you try to dissimulate? I thought you were a parent.
Kuntar "was tried and convicted for the murders of Danny and Einat Haran. He has also admitted his complicity many times and expressed pride about the killings. Still, he has many supporters in Lebanon who maintain that he is innocent. These supporters also, alternately, claim that the Harans were legitimate targets and considers Kuntar to be a political prisoner."
A political prisoner. Einat Haran, a 9 year old little defenseless child watched her father slain in front of her by Kuntar. Then he smashed her head in.
And he bragged about it.
Perhaps Tali Hatuel, a pregnant mother of 4, with her 4 little kids in a car were also "legitimate targets"? What about these kids? Who were killed by "palis"?
There is far more than this. Just a sample of what your "blameless" bretheren do to children. Happily.
You disgust me Twosret.
August 14th, 2006 at 1:11 am
Enough of this blather!!!! WTF kind of name is “SandMonkey anyways already?” Fer Christs sake, its got two capitals! Let it be known: Henceforth your name is ….
Essmo
!!!
August 14th, 2006 at 1:56 am
On the “bright” side. Now they can assasinate him.
August 14th, 2006 at 1:57 am
It is obvious Kuntar committed this terrible crime, and he should not be released. The captured Israeli soldiers should be released unconditionally; Israel should demand it and the international community and UN that created the UN resolution should support their return. Hezbollah says that it treats prisioners well. . . ok, let’s see these IDF troops returned in good shape.
Ah, Hezbollah still has a lot of missles!!! Do you think that they will disarm and leave Lebanon? What a mess!
SandMonkey, your site is one of my very favorites. Best regards from Texas, lynne
August 14th, 2006 at 2:10 am
Samir Kuntar operation was targeting an Israeli nuclear scientist.
I would call it a pre emptive strike, just like what Israel did to Iraq. The only difference is the means.
As for the dead child, well as Israeli generally refer to Lebanese casualties, her death was the result of collateral damage.
August 14th, 2006 at 2:18 am
They should release the guy, but first they need to put a GPS tracking tag under his skin like a mangy fucking dog while having him sedated so he doesn’t realize what has occurred.
Then, as soon as they release him and get their two soldiers back, they can track him and a helicopter gunship can finish him off.
2 freed Israeli soldiers + 1 dead terrorist. Sounds like a bargain.
August 14th, 2006 at 2:19 am
“was the result of collateral damage.”
Aww..more moral equivocation from the left. The left never seems to understand the difference between intentional and unintentional killings - it is a concept too subtle for the Marxist mind.
August 14th, 2006 at 2:20 am
Excellent satire, Stan. You’ve brilliantly captured the mindset of someone twisted enough to rationalize cold-blooded murder. Brava!
August 14th, 2006 at 2:22 am
Kranky,
Where did I say that I defend him? I merely posted what I found about him. I never voiced my opinion. I posted his side of the story, I didn’t hear of him until SM posted his topic, his site says the story different, I didn’t see him posting anything related to any child killings, on the other hand the mother admitted that she put her hand on her child mouth and she died on the hands of her mother. The rest of the story of the mother wasn’t clear to me that is why I did google to find other sources.
Now in any case my point of view is, no innocent should be dragged into military fights, that is exactly why I oppose war on Lebanon and the innocent being killed. I’m examining both sides of the stories.
Now http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page is a site that can be edited.
Usually I ignore trolls like you but for this statement of yours “If you were here in the US then maybe we could get the CPS folks to protect your offspring from you.”
Your slander statement about my family and children and your threats I will not take lightly. I caution you to be very careful and not address me again.
August 14th, 2006 at 2:33 am
“As for the dead child, well as Israeli generally refer to Lebanese casualties, her death was the result of collateral damage.”
If we are against Israel for it’s wrong doings of killing innocent children and womenin Palestine and Lebanon, then we should not justify killing another innocent on the hand of military/resistance group.
People who usually suffer from injustice should never do the same. That is why I can never comprehend how can Israelis claim suffering from nazi camps when Palestinians are living under the same conditions.
August 14th, 2006 at 2:35 am
“I suppose Twos thinks the”
Were you talking to me anonon?
August 14th, 2006 at 2:41 am
Oooh, Kranky! You have been CAUTIONED! Tworset takes this not LIGHTLy!
Shiver!
Ya’Allah, Tworset! You give Muslims and Middle Easterners a bad name Your attitude precisely reflects why the region is going down the crapper.
There was not one Jew I spoke to when baruch Goldstein massacred the Arabs in the mosque in 1994 who did not say it was foul and disgusting. Not one! There was no equivocation. There was no, “Sure we condemn targeting civillians, BUT you have to understand…” There was no tit-for-tat moral calculations of which civillians it’s ok to murder INTENTIONALLY. Nothing! Just condemnation. Unequivocal.
Sure, I could have found some nutter Jewish right wingers or fundamentalists, but they are not usual, and I wouldn’t normally come into contact with them…
AND THAT IS THE POINT…
YOU, Tworset, are supposedly part of Islam’s and the Middle East’s moderate camp. I can’t picture you as mujahib - you present yourself as “modern.” So while “modern” Jews are able to condemn WITHOUT EQUIVOCATION bestial acts, why the hell can’t you? Why look for the revisionist history of this foul man?
So much of what is fucked up in the Middle East is due to matters of the people unable to make self criticism or to criticise a “brother,” when an “outsider” is involved, no matter how repulsively the brother acts. This is tribalism, not reasoned thinking.
If we want modern, free states in the middle east, we cannot use tribalism as the default moral compass.
As or moral equivalence morons like Stan. Jesus Christ. I hope they don’t live in the West, because as far as I know, every single western penal code distinguishes between crimes on the basis of intent. It’s the difference between manslaughter and murder, murder and self defence, etc. So I just see all these moral equivalence types ringing their hands just as much for the man shot to death by the woman he was raping as they would for the child killed by abusive parents. No moral distinction is necessary. How do such stupid people even work out how to turn on the computer?
August 14th, 2006 at 2:51 am
Lala,
“YOU, Tworset, are supposedly part of Islam’s and the Middle East’s moderate camp. I can’t picture you as mujahib - you present yourself as “modern.” So while “modern” Jews are able to condemn WITHOUT EQUIVOCATION bestial acts, why the hell can’t you? Why look for the revisionist history of this foul man?”
1- When you learn to shoot the message not the messenger you can be considered a mature adult above the age of 18 that is cable of conversing.
2- You are so wrong about many things but this one is a masterpiece. It only shows your ignorance and racism without me even replying with one word.
3- I always check after SM references because it has been clear that he posts some or many views biased to Israel.
4- Everyone has the right to practice critical thinking and dig into facts and history and information so for you to utter your nonsense is another proof of who you are.
August 14th, 2006 at 3:01 am
“Why look for the revisionist history of this foul man?””
I look it up because I want to learn all sides of the story and what happened in an attempt to use my mind unlike you, jump on the internet and shout at people who might differ or try to look up other sources. So reading about Hitler is a crime these days? checking out the history of the holocaust is a crime?
So many people wrote about Hitler should we call 1-800- police for them and threaten them to take their children away from them because Hitler killed many children.
Everyday people write in the News about Olmert, Bibi, Sharon (at a veggie state in the hospital) and their crimes against humanity. Should we shoot them.
You must come from an oppressed background for sure.
August 14th, 2006 at 3:07 am
“Ya’Allah, Tworset! You give Muslims and Middle Easterners a bad name Your attitude precisely reflects why the region is going down the crapper.”
Really? how so? please explain further as you didn’t impress me yet.
“So much of what is fucked up in the Middle East is due to matters of the people unable to make self criticism or to criticise a “brother,” when an “outsider” is involved, no matter how repulsively the brother acts. This is tribalism, not reasoned thinking.”
M.E. hmmmm your ignorance still impress me NOT. Brothers? huh?! tribalism? who?
“How do such stupid people even work out how to turn on the computer?”
if you can do it I can do it.
August 14th, 2006 at 3:09 am
Huh?
Cut down on the coffee ya-okhti. You’ll pop a vessel.
“1- When you learn to shoot the message not the messenger you can be considered a mature adult above the age of 18 that is cable of conversing.”
Yeah yeah.. capable of conversing… above age of 18… Very stern, my good lady. Also, nice use of utterly irrelevant cliche. How are you the messenger (or Messenger (PBUH))?! You post on a message board. You post opinions that seek to justify the murder of innocents. That’s a message that I would love to “shoot,” should this message ever be made corporeal - or am I missing a deeper point?
“2- You are so wrong about many things but this one is a masterpiece. It only shows your ignorance and racism without me even replying with one word.”
What am I wrong about? Are you not modern? Are you indeed hijabi? If so, I apologise. On the blogs, this is not how you come across. You come across as a bit of a fractured soul.
As for accusations of racism - genius!!!
Cry racism when you have no argument!!!
But, my dear lady… if there were such a thing as race, which any good ethnographer, ethnogeneticist, anthropologist, biologist,etc will tell you there is not, then… wait for it… WE ARE OF THE SAME RACE. Try same religion or ethicity. We’re that as well, dear sister. How idiotic!
“3- I always check after SM references because it has been clear that he posts some or many views biased to Israel.”
You went to the Myspace Page of the terrorist himself!
Name: Samir
Music: Fairuz
Films: Anything with Mel Gibson
Passions: bashing mini-Zionists in the head after forcing them to watch their fathers’ executions.
“4- Everyone has the right to practice critical thinking and dig into facts and history and information so for you to utter your nonsense is another proof of who you are.”
Critical thinking? Is that what the kids a calling it these days? Here’s an exercise: What is the Arab/Muslim world suffering from that can not be blamed on US or Israel?
Digging into facts and history? I assume you are not academically trained if by facts and history you mean samirkuntarishotstuff.myspace.com.
Proof of who I am?
?
Go on…
August 14th, 2006 at 3:09 am
“Sure, I could have found some nutter Jewish right wingers or fundamentalists, but they are not usual, and I wouldn’t normally come into contact with them…”
so looking up information on the internet is comming in contact with the person LOL what grade are you in lala seriously?
August 14th, 2006 at 3:12 am
Eeeeeef! The rest of Tworset’s reply came after I posted my last.
Tworset, mabrouk on the certainty of your worldview. I hope it is a comfort to you at least.
Why get hysterial at a meaningless threat to call welfare on you? Too stupid. And it was made by Kranky not me. I only find it funny because of your reaction - so silly!
Answering you further is time that will be lost forever, so I will cut my losses here.
August 14th, 2006 at 3:13 am
“You post opinions that seek to justify the murder of innocents. ”
Now I will cut the chase short, show me one post where I did justify the murder of innocents.
Awaiting.
Hint Hint post #19 ya habla
August 14th, 2006 at 3:16 am
“Excellent satire, Stan. You’ve brilliantly captured the mindset of someone twisted enough to rationalize cold-blooded murder. Bravo!”
I am just applying what I learned from some Israelis I encountered on the blogosphere over the past few weeks. When it comes to rationalizing cold blooded murder, you gotta admit: Israelis are the best in the game.
Its fun, give it a try
August 14th, 2006 at 3:19 am
“Why get hysterial at a meaningless threat to call welfare on you? ”
This is my business not yours. I’m glad your are cutting your posts short.
August 14th, 2006 at 3:27 am
“You come across as a bit of a fractured soul.”
Lala habibiti you calm down shewiya you make me laugh wallahi. Coffee eih we vessel eih we fractured soul eih? Eih el hebab elly betektebeih dah we enti mosh fahma haga khales kedda
I honor you a phd in psychology of an internet diagnosis provider
August 14th, 2006 at 3:53 am
Hi Stan,
I was composing a bitingly clever (if I may say so myself :)) reply, when I realized that my last comment can still perfectly function as a stay to your last comment. Henceforth: ” ”
But in terms of good ol’ human dencency, I’d like you to clarify something for me. Do you really think that the murder of Danny and Einat Haran was a justafiable act? Was your comment a roundabout (albiet, shockingly bloodthirsty) way of lamenting both Lebanese and Isreali civilian deaths? Or was it truely a condonement of Kuntar and his gang’s deeds?
August 14th, 2006 at 4:05 am
Daphne,
I’m not sure if you are new to SM or not but thanks for your reasonable post. I totally agree with you, in the meantime I would like to see the same logic applied to innocent Palestinian and Lebanese families.
It will be nice to see more comments like yours addressed to the Israelis.
Danny and Einat………Mohamed and Leila
Kuntar………….Beign or Sharon
August 14th, 2006 at 4:13 am
Holy sh*t, do you ever have a talent for making friends….:)
August 14th, 2006 at 4:24 am
Twosret,
Why engage with trolls?
KiKi darling, when I visit BC Vancouver I will come and see you in person, you can e-mail Raccoon to come and join us, threesome sounds great
Being a bully is not hard you know.
August 14th, 2006 at 4:26 am
You would know wouldn’t you as you are the #1 most fouled mouth bully.
August 14th, 2006 at 4:28 am
I love you darling, was having dreams about you the other night…ohhh you were so delicious. Just remember I’m Watching You!
August 14th, 2006 at 4:48 am
“I am just applying what I learned from some Israelis I encountered on the blogosphere over the past few weeks. When it comes to rationalizing cold blooded murder, you gotta admit: Israelis are the best in the game.
Its fun, give it a try”
I’ll decline on your offer of giving it a try, clearly you are far more experienced in such ventures than I am, but I must disagree with your assesment that Israelis are the best in the game when it comes to absurd moral comparisons and cold-blooded murder. Clearly, that honor belongs to Liberal/Marxist axis like yourself. They’ve killed tens of millions over the years and they still attempt to portray themselves as “peace activists.” Won’t they ever learn?
In fact, I think I saw Stan at a recent rally in the Bay Area:
http://www.zombietime.com/stop_the_us_israeli_war_8_12_2006/
August 14th, 2006 at 4:58 am
On my first comment on the war on Lebanon I would like to present to the pussies in Israel this checklist.
http://www.indybay.org/uploads/2006/08/12/2_israels_checklist.jpg
August 14th, 2006 at 5:08 am
Tommy,
You look great too
http://www.dropdeadugly.com/dp/1-75.htm
August 14th, 2006 at 5:21 am
Twosret,
To paraphrase Marge Simpson, “long time lurker, first time poster.” SM’s blog has been on my daily round of blogs for a while, but this is the first time I’ve every had the courage to post.
And to your point, I agree with you. Everyone is this conflict has at least a little blood on their hands. In an ideal world, each side would be dealing with their own sour elements. For instance, Israel would have held Sharon accountable for what he allowed the SLA to do in Lebanon. The Palestinians would be the loudest condemers of suicide bombers. And Kuntar would be rotting away in a Lebanese prison.
I think everyone wants to the other side to admit their wrongs first. Naturally, this system won’t get anyone anywhere, since it has a built in catch 22. Which is sad, because I think that just as the first step towards sobriety in the 12-Step program is admitting you have a mistake, the first step towards peace between Israel and her neighbors is for everyone to acknowledge their mistakes and wrong doings.
August 14th, 2006 at 5:25 am
I am going to sleep now Mo Mo, but tomorrow I will be investigating my options about your VERY PUBLIC threat to come pay me a visit.
August 14th, 2006 at 5:49 am
Don’t be a hothead, Mo:
http://tammybruce.com/archives/TurbanBomb.jpg
August 14th, 2006 at 6:06 am
Excuse me while I hurl.
Ariel Sharon should wake up, grab Olmert’s collar, and give him a sound trashing. Talk about rewarding an extremism.
August 14th, 2006 at 7:35 am
Wow, some sick stuff here. But, uh, just for the record, neither Twoshit nor anyone else (but me) actually read the page that twoshit sends us to. Nowhere on that page does Kuntar deny the killing of the Haran family, he just doesn’t boast of it (in English at least). In fact the page clearly says:
“The operation lasted from 2:00 to 5:00 a.m. Kuntar and his colleagues reached the seashore of Naharya where, in addition to the military base, there were also a police military academy, the coastal guards and artillery the naval alarm network, and the headquarters for the Israeli warship group.
Kuntar and his colleagues fought, at first, with a police patrol where an Israeli sergeant was killed. The group burst into a high building (number 61) in Jabootinski where they parted into two groups.
The battle that ended the operation took place when Kuntar tried to get closer to his boat at the seashore. Abdel Majeed got killed and Mhanna was seriously wounded in the head and later died. Kuntar had five bullets all over his body (a fact he mentioned in one of his letters). He was under fire from all directions after Kuntar fell to the ground, he was unable to move. The Israelis imprisoned Kuntar and his colleague Ahmed Al Abrass (who was later released in 1985 in a prisoners exchange operation).
The result of the operation was the death of 2 of the commandos group members, and the imprisonment of Kuntar and Al Abrass . On the Israeli’s side, 5 were killed and 12 others wounded.”
You do the math.
August 14th, 2006 at 7:35 am
It is absolutely insane that Israel doesn’t sentence people like that to death. They have at least a few dosen pre-meditated child murderers in jail - ie people who intentionally and specifically targeted children, with full knowledge and no real or perceived threat. Let me repeat for a couple of morons very active on this site: murder of children, intentional, pre-meditated, in full knowledge, with no immediate threat associated with them. Of any race or religion. Death sentence. Anyone objects?
August 14th, 2006 at 8:05 am
Dude,
Quntar may be a monster a child molester a beast, whatever.
But if releasing him means less Israeli and Lebanese children will die then what kind of justice is it we insist that he stays in jail EVEN if that means more children will die ?
Why is the child he killed more important that all the children who died because he has to face justice ?
Damn it if you don’t want to release him kill him and get it over with. That’ll be 1117 Lebanese dead instead of 1116
here a funny thought when Hizballah kidnapped the two soldiers Israel should have responded by immediately killing quntar and the other 4 or five Lebanese prisoners they have.
Hezbollah would have been pissed as hell and killed the two soldiers they have.
A few casualties form both sides Hizballah would have learned kidnapping will not get them what they want no civilian Israelis killed no civilian Lebanese killed 80 Israeli soldiers lives spared and hizballah learns a lesson.
But noooooo how can I suggest Israel kills the prisoners! That’s murder, they can always have a nice little war where they kill hundreds of innocents in clear conscience.
As stupid as this may seem what Israel did is ten times stupider.
Just ranting.
August 14th, 2006 at 8:16 am
Twosret, you just lost the little respect you salvaged from me along the month.Samir Kuntar is a child-murderer and a monster, he should rot in jail for his whole life as a warning that those who intentionally target children *never* get out.
As to the site you liked to, if you read hebrew, would you consider this to be unbiased site?And what about this one?The first is a Kahana Khai webpage glorifying him and, the second a forum disscussion where it is claimed it is all an Arab conspiracy andhe killed nobody.Personaly both make me want to puke.Both are on about the same level of bias as the webpage you linked to.
August 14th, 2006 at 8:18 am
ps.on the scond paragraph “him” refers to Baruch Goldstein, of course.Sorry for the possible confusion.
August 14th, 2006 at 9:21 am
Anonymous Leb, your rant was actually quite lucid. In the cold calculus of war, having lost two soldiers would have been better than 100, and one child-killer far better than hundreds of children. Many have accused Israel of having motives beyond the release of their soldiers, and I think that’s true. Israel’s war was about meeting the challenge of provocation and reminding Lebanon that, despite their bluster and chest-thumping, Hezbollah fighters CANNOT defend the nation.
August 14th, 2006 at 10:17 am
It seems to me judging from some of the comments here, that some people can’t be reached. For some crushing the skull of a little gilr is equivelant to israeli airstrikes. Some people just live in a different reality.
Of course they would say the same thing about me. The interesting thing is that all muslim countries are failures. both the ones supported by western governments and the ones opposed to western governments.
It seems logical to me that people who are no capable of grasping reality would have a hard time running a modern country.
August 14th, 2006 at 11:09 am
Pretty shocking reading, to be quite honest…
The fact that (seemingly) sane people can find it in themselves to do anything but unconditionally condemn the likes of Quntar is beyond me. The mere fact that so many arabs can support Hizbollah, when their agenda features the release of of a child-murderer is equally mindboggling.
People… There is a HUGE difference between ‘legitimate’ acts of war and criminal actions. War, while not pretty and certainly not desirable, is a conflict between nations, where casualties are a sad fact of life. Crushing the skull of a child is a henious crime, no matter what circumstances lay behind, and should find sympathy from noone, regardless of their position in the conflict.
As for the idea that you can actually compensate one death for several others in cold rationale, this is completely absurd. The guilty must meet their punishment regardless of the consequences, lest the public’s sense of justice be completely lost. The alternative would quite certainly be much worse, ie. thousands of Quntar-copies all over the arab world, when it becomes evident that it is without consequence to smash the head of a 4-year old girl with a rifle butt!
August 14th, 2006 at 11:22 am
Hizballah Wants Israel to Free Child-Killer
You can’t win the war against Islamic fascism and prevent them from obtaining their global caliphate that they seek, by loosing everytime you have the opportunity to win. This, and still no consequences for Iran and Syria’s role in this war.
August 14th, 2006 at 11:24 am
Maybe the day we realise that the horror of state sponsored murder (by Israel, Lebanon, US, HB, Ba’ath or any-damn-body) is no more excusable than the foul and disgusting murder of that little girl, that will be the day we realise that people in power of religious or secular organisations only use force when they are too stupid to use brains to achieve their ends.
August 14th, 2006 at 11:33 am
Adam B., well said. I agree. There is no comparison between accidential acts of war and criminal actions. Smashing the head in of a small defenseless child is a cowardly, shameful act. No one should defend that action no matter what.
Loyalty to one’s cause is admirable but not when it blinds a person to truth and justice.
I am 100% Pro-Israel, and I am also 100% Pro-Arab—there is no contradiction here. It would be nice if everyone could put aside differences, accept their diversity, and live in peace. This antagonism between groups is crazy. It does not serve the best interests of either group. It is insane.
August 14th, 2006 at 12:03 pm
Isdor ,Adam B: save your breath. You cannot try to use common sense when dealing with middle eastern honor and revenge mindset. You can smash a childs head open if the country she was born in is your enemy. Kuntar knew back in school he would be a martyr,not a doctor saving lives, not a chemist developing cures for diseases, a jihadi, a killer, lofty goals indeed. The undying admiration of many of his people, his tribe just one of the benefits. Apparently SM doesn’t buy into this horseshit code so he gets flamed by Twosret, eee, and others. Then you get Mohamid, say something he doesn’t agree with and he threatens a visit. Common sense, not with this mindset.
August 14th, 2006 at 12:09 pm
number 5 tworet
indeed golda was right . there are no palestinians. there are arabs who were prevented from going back to their homelands by the arab league. the only palestiniasn pre 1948 were those people who had palestinian passports. these were people who had legally immigrated to the British mandate and were mainly jews. the arabs who doubled their number post 1922 were mostly illegal immigrants coming to get jobs. Most the arabs in the British Mandate had moved therer within the last few years to get jobs. they were not born there and they did not get there legally. But post war, teh UN had a problem. the arab league prevented any refugee from repatriating to his respective homeland. And UNwra was designed to keep these people hostage. they defined “refugee” as anybody who could claim, not prove, that they had been in British Plaestine for a year or two, no longer. If you claimed that, you got free food and shelter and health care.
Zionist propaganda?: hardly. its all at the UN and at the avalon project. Start reading the british mandate reports from British palestine and the Security Council reports from 1947 onward. the UN has redacted some of them to make them more pro arab. certain pappers are left out of the library for public viewing ( thye were present pre 2000) . Still, the data for the most part is there.
There is no mention of palestinians in the 1948 UN agreement, it is between arabs and jews. and there is no mention in the world until after the 73 war. At that time UN242 was passed, which called for an agreement between warring states. In order to implement 242 a new state had to be fabricated because Jordan had no legal title to the land and would likely sign a peace treaty with Israel and legally cede the disputed land of the west bank to Israel. The term palestinian is a propaganda construct
to invent a state that could be “occupied” and could be negotiated with. UN242 was fulfilled with Jordan and Egypt legally and fully. Lebanon still has not signed a peace treaty with Israel
August 14th, 2006 at 12:21 pm
So whats new in this entire rigmorole! Wasn’t it clear from day one of this entire mess that unless and until the Israelis were willing to risk a full-scale military invasion of Lebanon and Syria, and crush the Hizbollah machinery to crumbs, that some sort of ‘negotiated settlement’ (Terrrorist Turd out to wallow in the muck yards of Lebanon & bring the boys back home; I’ve got an election coming right after this!) would have been the only solution, unless of course, the Israelis were willing to let the lost soldiers remain a statistic.
Kuntar may well be released and so will be a few of his ‘Pali’ brethren and the only real war he may fight ever again will be with some underaged sex slave in one of those brothels that Beirut is famous for. And then the Hizbollah might make him a hero out of him, as a prized trophy of it’s campaign that might only have left Lebanon with a $ 11 Bn. deficit( so who cares! Didn’t Allah’s Party win the war?) And then no matter what they say they will end up gaining more seats in the next Lebanese elections which can take place anytime between now and 2 years hence.
The Net Result:
The Winnner: Round One to Hizbollah in a knock out!
Hassan Nassrallah !
He got what he wanted and some more, what with all the gory pictures coming out courtsey Reuters, AP, AFP et al., I just can imagine the so called Arab street brimming with enthusiastic recruits for the next round. (” Dad! When I grow up I will be martyr and kill as many infidels as possible. That way I get to have a go at 72 ‘pristine pieces’ for the rest of my ‘eternal life’”)
Basshar al-Assad: So our knock-knee soldier gets to win a war. It feels really good! When was the last time that Syria won a war? No! I am not talking about the Assyrians. Problem is, he will find it hard to motor along once the Euphoria runs dry and then the ‘Shia brethren’ of the ‘brave resistance’ will start asking for a larger share of the pie. (” Maybe I should have stuck to the cushy job in London”)
The Casualties:
Ehud Olmert: Sharon’s successor couldn’t live up to his mentor. To all of those aspiring politicians (including Guiliani, who I am told has a mind to run for the primaries come November next, the fact that you can get your sanitation workers to do a decent job DOES NOT mean that you can run a country) Do I see another Ehud (Who?) Barak in the making?
Amir Peretz: The ‘joker’ from Histadrut made a mockery of his job and will be the first casualty amongst the heavy-weights. (”That woman ‘Condy’ Rice was mighty mad that I kept her in the dark about what happened in Qana, during our meeting, but you gotta admit something, after all there is only so much that a guy can do at a time! Besides, I was only trying to break this gently to her in my own way.”) But then being one amongst the ‘toilers’ he will find his way back to the Knesset to insult the institution of Parliament, atleast till he is given an ‘honorable’ retirement
Tzipi Livni: Ah! That woman would have been the only thing worth seeing in an Israeli cabinet meeting! Incompetence is a crime, only when commited by balding men and greying women , so our ‘fair lady’ gets to live another day , but not for a long time( atleast not as Foreign Minister) . You dont belong to one of those dynasties in Israeli politics for nothing.
The Israelis:
142 deaths in a months time and they might be wondering as to what the most well equipped army in the middle east was doing all this time and perhaps it will upset the leftist applecart in Israel for the better part of the next decade.
IDF: One incompetent bungling after another! I think this was Israels war to lose. The IDF’s reputation will take a lot of battering and so will its policies on the ground. So much for leaflets and radio announcements. And maybe they will get a media manager with atleast an ounce of grey matter where it matters.
Peace NOW!: Haven’t heard from them for a long time. Last week some moonbats did a protest outside the Israeli Army Command in Negev( What’s wrong in looking for a safe place to protest?) It will be a while before they get an audience outside ‘liberal’ European Universities and Gaypride/ WSF festivals.
The Losers:
The Lebanese People: Although the majority of the ‘civilians’ killed were either the ‘friendly-neighbourhood-resistance-fighters’ and their kith and kin( maybe they should ask the Lebanese Government to pay for Underground Family Bunkers for the next round) the destruction of the infrastructure will set them back by many years and atleast take them 3 years to rebuild ( if the Hizbollah doesn’t start round 2 that is)
…………………..That about sums it up I guess, Oh No! How could I forget?
The News Agencies: The next time you see all those dramatic pictures, just remember to take it with a pinch of salt! The world is swarming with Adnan Hajjs and Salam Dahers and Kathleen Carrolls, not to mention ‘objective journalists’ like Kathy Gannon. So the next time you see the pictures of a dead baby or hear about ‘massacres’ wait for atleast a couple of months to see whether or not there is any dispute or retraction of the figures. If not you can safely conclude that the half the number mentioned in the figures might have died and maybe, just maybe the child is really dead.
August 14th, 2006 at 12:22 pm
I am sure all you SM lot would accuse me of defending Quntar…I am not, and I hope he rots in jail, and then goes to hell and get his skull crushed every ten seconds for eternity…but what many of you are saying is that if you crush a childs skull with a cluster bomb dropped from an F-16 then that’s completely kosher, but if you do it with a rifle butt then you’re a child-murderer? I guess the cluster bomb was aimed at the whole apartment block not at the child…
I guess if you don’t see the child dying it’s easier not to feel guilty about it…
August 14th, 2006 at 12:27 pm
Historian…do you make up history to suit you as you go along? or do you choose one source that agrees with your ideology most?
another case of selective amnesia accompanied by national pride syndrome…most Arabs have that disease as well–it’s highly contagious…
August 14th, 2006 at 12:40 pm
Iranian president got a blog,
check it here, but you may get in trouble :
http://ws.giyus.org/points/point?id=129
August 14th, 2006 at 12:47 pm
Yes, Twos, I was talking to you!!!
Here’s the thing: Kuntar BRAGGED about the killings. He’s PROUD of smashing a little girl’s head in. SM’s account IS Kuntar’s side of the story by his own admission.
The fact that you accuse the mother of killing the other child is a travesty - especially for a mother! You should be ashamed of yourself. The mother hid with her youngest child and accidentally smothered her while trying to keep her quiet so that Kuntar wouldn’t discover them. As a mother, I would hope you would try to protect your child if a blood thirsty maniac broke into your home. And if you should accidentally kill that child in the attempt, I would hope I would sympathize with you instead of accusing you. Really, Twos, your comment was just shameful!
Israeli bombs kill children and that’s tragic. But the Israelis (and for that matter, sane Arabs) don’t actually TARGET children. Kuntar did. Frankly, I don’t know why Lebanon would want him back. If I were Lebanese I’d be afraid that he would go all Wahabi on my ass and start killing people who weren’t “Muslim enough”. This asshole is a psycopath and not worth HA endangering a SINGLE Lebanese life for. See what I’m saying?
My sarcastic response results from Arabs NEVER admitting anything. You fell into that in your post. “An Arab did that? IMPOSSIBLE! MUST be a conspiracy.” A few years ago an Egyptian guy by the name of Hesham lost his mind in LAX and sprayed people with bullets. The incident was investigated and it turned out that Hesham was not a terrorist but a run of the mill loony. However, even though there were about 100 eye-witnesses and footage from several security cameras, his wife - upon seeing the videotapes - said that he didn’t do what he did and that the very accusation was a Western conspiracy against Islam. So her crazy, loony husband now represents all of Islam. Yadi el neelah!?!?! Magnoon Giden!!
August 14th, 2006 at 1:00 pm
Anonymous Leb - although I have a principle problem with the idea of releasing any convicted murderer and an even greater problem with any deals with terrorist (or for that matter plain criminal) hostage-takers, I can follow your logic. But unfortunately for both of us your basic premise does not hold.
If it did we could have had a peace deal signed years ago. We would have said “here you take the Sheba Farms and deal with the Syrians and here is Kutub - you can release him or have him serve out his natural life in your jails” and you would have responded “we’ve just signed a peace deal and you want to screw us with Sheba Farms, the Syrians and sickos like Kutub”.
The reality is that HB doesn’t give a sh*t for the Sheba Farms or Kutub and if they didn’t exist it would be something else. Their stated agenda is clearly the liberation of el Kuds, the destruction of the Zionist entity and the hastening of the relevation of the Mahdi. And we are not likely to agree to any of those. I don’t think it would be wise for you to agree either, if only because we have no intention of going quietly.
So that leaves you with the quandry of whether you are willing to be their playground or not. And it is a real quandry.
August 14th, 2006 at 1:01 pm
Alaa,
“I am sure all you SM lot would accuse me of defending Quntar…”
No, I wouldn’t.
“but what many of you are saying is that if you crush a childs skull with a cluster bomb dropped from an F-16 then that’s completely kosher, but if you do it with a rifle butt then you’re a child-murderer? I guess the cluster bomb was aimed at the whole apartment block not at the child…”
I can only speak for myself but here’s what I think on that subject:
When you crush a child’s skull, you kill the child on purpose. When You are blowing up military objectives and a child you didn’t know was there gets killed, you did not do it on purpose. It takes a special beast to kill a child by crushing their skull with your own hands (holding a weapon, of course). THAT is the difference between the two.
Let’s be clear on my personal position here: The death of a child is TRAGIC. Always. No matter whose fault it is. No question. No argument.
But this is what I wonder about (maybe you can help me with the answer): Part of the reason Israeli casualties are so much lower is because Israel builds bomb shelters for their population.
In the 6 years that HA has been digging its tunnels under civilian structures - like rats - all over Southern Lebanon, they have built NOT ONE bomb shelter for the civilians it means to endanger in its attempt to “liberate Palestine”. You would think that HA is responsible for protecting their OWN civilians. Why aren’t they? More to the point - why isn’t the Arab Street holding them responsible for that? And wy isn’t the Arab street crying over Israeli children killed by HA’s Katyusha rockets? Aren’t all children precious?
August 14th, 2006 at 1:02 pm
Sorry, Kuntar not Kutub
August 14th, 2006 at 1:07 pm
So Alaa, you looked up the UN files Historian referred us to and he was wrong? Tell us please what is in the UN files. Don’t just say he’s wrong and then stop. As to your prior post, on the one hand Israeli pilot in a war, following orders. On the other hand a terrorist killing a little girls father in front of her and then crushing her head, killing her. If Danny and his daughter had known Kuntar was coming, had gotten a leaflet telling him so and waited around for it to happen it would be almost identical. Except for that personal Kuntar touch and the 20 minutes of abject terror leading up to her final seconds. People are dying and that is horrific. Period. Peace will come when the Arabs love their children more than they hate us. Golda Meir.
August 14th, 2006 at 1:09 pm
*sighs*
Alaa and others, you don’t seem to get a very obvious point.
Samir Quntar drags an unarmed man out of his apartment and shoots him in cold blood in front of his young daughter, then bashes his head in with a rock.
Hizballah stores rockets in a mosque and a hospital and launches them at Israeli cities from the closest possible point to a Lebanese Sunni village so as to draw Israeli return fire.
Israel calls villagers by phone and warns them to get out, then a day later bombs the village from which HA continues to fire rockets at Israeli cities.
Rather than sending the local civilians into its bunkers to keep them seafe, HA hides its own people there. Israeli return fire unintentionally kills the local civilians.
Is that the same thing as Quntar’s action? Of course not. One side is deliberately targeting civilians. The other side is trying its damndest not to, and USUALLY succeeding but sometimes failing.
Yes, this example has been “cleaned up” because I’m explaining the difference between deliberate massacres and accidental massacres. Get the point please.
August 14th, 2006 at 1:21 pm
Twosret, I know that you won’t read this, but I just can’t help myself: you are completely INSANE!
Sandmonkey posts about the widelyknown barbarities of “someone” that smashed the brain of a 4 year old girl with the butt of his rifle… and you want to compromise on THAT? To listen to the other side of the story? What part of “we can’t trust anything that the other side says because they lie through their teeth” didn’t you get? What part of “Hizballah says that relief trucks can’t get to hit areas because of Israeli destruction”, but for some reason journalists - led by Hizballah members - can, and Hizballah can even move wreckage from the original sites?
What part of “We can’t trust people” that violate the sanctity of a dead child’s remains to distort reality by producing propaganda? http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=22092_AP_Circles_the_Wagons_Around_Green_Helmet_Guy&only
And Golda Meir was right: there are no Palestinians. That people never existed. There are Egyptian and Jordanian refugees (for the most part, late XIX and XX century immigrants) who were taught (brainwashed) to believe that they were Palestinians. There are no Palestinians, but there is a thriving Palestinian film industry. (Watch the documentary CBS 60 minutes documentary “PALLYWOOD” about the extent of Palestinian propaganda) http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=22061&only
Shaskespeare said it: the world is a stage, and we are all mere actors - but some take this more seriously than others. Keep living in lala land.
August 14th, 2006 at 1:24 pm
Howard,
It’s useless. The dominant explanation for everything in the ME is a conspiracy theory.
The premise of everything is that “we” can attack with the stated purpose of anahilation but “they” have no right to shoot back. Any wrong against us is unforgivable for eternity. We, on the other hand are never wrong. If one accepts that as “logic”, then one is a lost cause.
August 14th, 2006 at 1:30 pm
I agree with Stan and Alaa completely!
Obviously, the little girl, and the Lebanese children, are both accidental victims of war. On the one hand, you have Lebanese children, forced by terrorist scum to live in and around Hezbollah rocket launchers, arms depots, firing positions, etc, so that when an Israeli pilot attempts to destroy a rocket launcher, he might hit the kids. On the other hand, the little girl might very well have been concealing an Israeli commando squad in her ear canal, which was clearly the target when the terrorist bashed her head in. Now, you may argue that the little girl was already a prisoner, under their control, but remember, this was an ISRAELI little girl, and therefore a Hezbollah man, even an adult, combat trained terrorist, is always outmatched, so we can never consider the little girl a prisoner. You might also answer, this is all stupid, we all know that Hezbollah will keep weapons in civilian homes, but a little girl can’t hide weapons! But remember, this is true, but only obvious to you and I. Hezbollah types and their supporters, and people like Twosret and Alaa, are not that intelligent, and can’t understand the relative difficulty of hiding a stockpile of weapons on a little girl vs hiding a stockpile of weapons in an apartment building. I mean, can’t you see? Bombing a building because rockets are coming out of it, beating on a little girl because… because she’s got an Israeli artillery firing position set up in her hair, same thing, right? Do not besmirch the thinking of Hezbollah supporters, merely because they have a very limited understanding of reality, it is racist.
Ben
August 14th, 2006 at 1:31 pm
“The fact that you accuse the mother of killing the other child is a travesty - especially for a mother! You should be ashamed of yourself.”
I accused the mother ? where did I do that? I only said that the girl died before the beach incident.
WHERE IN SM POST did he refer to Kuntar BRAGGING about it? WHERE DID IT SAY IN KUNTAR story that he is proud of smashing a skull?.
“Twos, your comment was just shameful!”
And you have a major comprehension problem that needs to addressed and a serious attitude that is fueld by low IQ.
Before your very idiotic sarcastic response, I have posted nothing but a post by his family or him to tell the story only tell the story.
“9/11 was concocted by Bush himself to go to war with Islam”
No Ya Roh Omek it was Bin Laden, the Bin Laden that Saudi Arabia kicked out and took away the Saudi nationality from him (wink wink at your hubby) and we the Americans ga