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Monday, 28 Aug 2006
Ayten Ahmet is a 16 year old girl in Australia who wanted to enroll in the Miss teen Australia Beauty Pageant. No news there , right? Wrong, she is muslim, and some of the islamist fuckheads decided to make a big stink about it, claiming that the girl blemishes Islam by participating in such a contest. Nice, huh?
Ayten Ahmet, 16, advanced to the top 26 of Miss Teen Australia
yesterday despite an outcry from some of Victoria's senior Muslims.The year 11 student said she entered the pageant to fulfil her modelling ambition, and was surprised by the objections.
Parents
Salih and Sarah Ahmet said their daughter was a typical teenager, and
her faith was irrelevant to the contest. Ms Ahmet, from Craigieburn,
beat hundreds of hopefuls at an open casting session at Federation
Square.A spokesman for Melbourne cleric Sheik Mohammed Omran
this week branded the competition, which involves swimsuit parades, as
a "slur on Islam".And Victorian Islamic leader Yasser Soliman said the contest did not conform with the teachings of the Koran.
Imagine being 16 and told that you are sluring an entire religion by wearing a swimsuit, the same swimsuit millions of muslim women wear on beaches in muslim countries anyway, by 2 old men who decided that what you do in your spare time is their fuckin business. How do you respond to that exactly?
Go Ayet. I hope you win, just because it would piss those assholes off.
August 28th, 2006 at 12:12 am
SM,
I think you are wasting your time, what is the big deal of some idiot saying stuff like that? why do you make a big deal out of some extremists when you said in your post that millions of muslims and arab women wear swimsuits every day on the beach.
The same goes with your Ramses post, two or three ignorant people including a cab driver make a comment and off you go on a long post. You know very well that MOST Egyptians appreciate their Pharaonic history, you are giving a very wrong image and very biased to our country. These days you seem negative and out of control I don’t know why.
Easy does it man! try to be balanced in your views a bit. Mesh Maa’ola kedda really zawdataha awy!
August 28th, 2006 at 12:22 am
Twosret,
“You know very well that MOST Egyptians appreciate their Pharaonic history, you are giving a very wrong image and very biased to our country. These days you seem negative and out of control I don’t know why.”
Where? Welnaby fein? You should’ve pointed them out to me that night. It was everywhere, and I wasn’t the only one who heard such shit if you need other refrences. Wait, I forgot, you haven’t been down here for how long now? I have been begging you to come back for a year so you can see for yourself what I am talking about. Please do before you tell me what is true about egyptians today and what isn’t. And don’t make it sound like I looked for the 3 negative egyptians in the entire crowd and decided enny ashana3 3ala masr when you were not there ya gameel.
August 28th, 2006 at 12:40 am
Yeah right you heard that from 50 million or let us say 30 million oh let me drop it down to 20 million or maybe 10 oh no let me drop the number 1 million.
What you heard was from 50 people 100 people?! let us add the others that heard this event like you to 500 people ok I will say 1 million.
Last I heard Egypt is 75 million right? When you say everywhere, where exactly is everywhere?. Seriously comm’on!!!!!!
The fact that I’m not in Egypt doesn’t mean I’m disconnected that much, I have many friends and relatives and they are very surprised at the way you report the news, and from what you have been writing lately I can tell you are giving a very negative, emotional image, extreme and you speak on behalf of ALL. I agree with you that the Gov of Egypt is fucked up big time but when it comes to the EGYPTIANS please take a deep breath and then write.
How many accidents happen around the world? and when it does what do people do? support, help or decide to make their country look bad. Take it easy shewia enta kedda metganan khales we mezwadaha awy.
Big difference between loving your country and generalizing and making sure that every event has to bring shame to Egyptians. If I didn’t know that your intentions are good I wouldn’t have raised a point.
August 28th, 2006 at 12:45 am
Twosret, I don’t know what your problem is; this girl IS getting a hard time from some Muslim clerics. I think that makes Sandmonkey’s post quite relevant. In Australia we have many Muslims who want to be treated, and to enjoy life, just like other Australians be they Catholic, Protestant, Buddhist, Hindu or whatever. Unfortunately we have other members of the Muslim community who are trying to force them into living live separate from those around them.
After reading the article I reckon she is a great example for all Australians as she is quite intelligent, shows a lot of respect and presents Australia, both Muslim and non Muslim, in a very good light. Besides that she is definitely alright on the eyes.
August 28th, 2006 at 12:50 am
Peter I have no problem. I’m making a point directed at Sandmonkey in regards to many posts. I’m directing my posts to SM and only SM. If you don’t like what I’m posting please scroll down.
August 28th, 2006 at 12:50 am
“What you heard was from 50 people 100 people?! l”
I don’t know the composition of the group you two talked to, but if those 50 or 100 people were a reasonably valid cross-section of Egyptian society, then it does say something about Egyptian society.
That is how statistics works.
(Granted, to be fair, an actual professional pollster would interview many more people, but nowhere near a million - a few thousand, maybe a few tens of thousands, at best. They would do that only to get a more accurate result and pin it down to a reasonable margin of error.)
SM isn’t a professional pollster. Neither are you, Twosret, yet I’m sure you make judgements about the moods, opinions, and feelings of populations at times. Indeed your comment that SM’s characterization of Egyptian society is invalid and that a large number of people feel differently has no apparent statistical backing itself. You have to make inferences from anecdotal evidence at times.
August 28th, 2006 at 12:57 am
If anybodys a little jumpy it’s you, twosret, after all, whose blog is this? does SM have to clear his posts with the local Imam?
why does some self-important religious leader have to insert himself into a young lady’s choice to participate in a silly competition? has a big leader in the faith nothing better to occupy his time?
August 28th, 2006 at 12:59 am
New post
You cannot teach a donkey to play the piano!
August 28th, 2006 at 1:12 am
tommy,
50 to 100 people out of 70 million is a good representative? hmmmm
kraussm,
Yeah it is his blog and he does have a comment section open for public and I made an observation and I’m free to do so. No Imams is involved in this process and if you know how to read you will read above that I called the opposers of the girls idiots.
August 28th, 2006 at 1:14 am
Cool blog, viarecta. I’ve bookmarked it.
August 28th, 2006 at 1:17 am
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAA!!!
Everytime Twosret sets her fingers to the keyboard she talks in circles. Not minutes after he tells Peter - Australia to shove it because she claims to be in control of the Sandmonkey’s comment section and doesn’t want anyone else to chime in, she then says the comment section is open to the public. This is Twosret at her finest.
August 28th, 2006 at 1:21 am
SM, I hope she (Ayten) wins. More power to her. More power to those who want to think for themselves, and do for themselves.
One of the most important things I learned growing up was not to sweat the small stuff. The little things. No religion I know of would be damaged by this young lady wearing a relatively common outfit; though if a religion were damaged by it, it cannot be much of a religion. Her father does not appear to be troubled by her actions. He has the wisdom and sense to understand what is important, including the happyiness of his daughter, and that there is no defamation of religion in this process.
The only blemishes upon religions that I see are when people abuse their power to attempt to coerce thought and conformity. This is independent of religion, sadly you can find such nitwits in all religions. You are right for exposing this for what it is, regardless of what your detractors whine about.
Good job, keep up the good work.
August 28th, 2006 at 1:23 am
There’s nothing wrong with believing that participating in a contest like this is shameful. Go right ahead and think that, BUT MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. It’s her life to screw up, right guys (offended Muslim clerics)?
Twosret, we know there are great Muslims out there. You, Sam, and many others who participate here and on other blogs are evidence of that. I believe the vast majority of Muslims are wonderful, decent people simply trying to do the right things in life. Sam doesn’t change my opinion one whit by pointing out these problems. But you must admit, these are real problems and they are growing in size, number, and frequency all the time. We shouldn’t turn a blind eye to them. That’s what this blog is about. Clearly, it’s very frustrating to him. It’s real.
And yes, there is hypocrisy and prejudice found rampant among Christians and everyone else. It upsets me when I see the same kind of ignorance and pride among fellow Christians, but I would rather point out those kinds of unchristian attributes and DISSOCIATE MYSELF FROM THOSE PEOPLE than try to ignore or cover for them. Recognizing these problems does not reflect poorly on you, sweetie! Really.
August 28th, 2006 at 1:24 am
LOL
August 28th, 2006 at 1:35 am
Jen,
Thanks for your post, I’m actually not muslim, I’m Christian but I do know many muslims that are by no means as stupid as those clerics, I am not denying their existance and not underestimating as you said the problems in Egypt.
I’m only pointing out that the exaggeration on SM part and generalization is not acceptable. It is only my view that I don’t share with many here as you can see. Egyptians are not all about extremism and accidents and terrorism there is so much more about Egypt more than Mubarak regime that is corrupt and makes our country so dysfunctional to the point that we can’t rescue people dying. More sadly America that supports the Mubarak regime and consider it moderate and democratic is in every way pathetic.
August 28th, 2006 at 1:54 am
Sandmonkey isn’t exaggerating. It only takes a few “extremists” to cause the deaths of thousands of innocent people. To shrug it off and say that they only represent a small minority of Muslims when you should condemn them for their evil makes you look passively complicit
When Muslim extremists start telling others how to live there lives, they seem to mean it. Until Islam, along with the rest of the world, rejects these people instead of shrugging indifferently, Muslims will never be trusted in the West.
If it weren’t for people like Sandmonkey, I would have given up on the Muslim world a long time ago.
August 28th, 2006 at 2:02 am
Twosret, you seem to have met the only anglos in America who are completely different from me and every other anlo-saxon American I’ve ever known, which is a number in the hundreds if not thousands, and you slam SM for making generlizations?
It wouldn’t be so bad if you didn’t use these fictitious anglo-Americans to claim I don’t know anything about my own people, but you do. Perhaps you should follow your own advice, eh? I find it a bit strange that you (incorrectly) pretend to be such an expert on the American public, and at the same launch these constant tirades about stereotypes of Egypt, Islam, teh Middle-East, Arabs, etc. Get over yourself.
August 28th, 2006 at 2:21 am
*puts her finger in her mouth and ready to puke*
August 28th, 2006 at 2:31 am
Twosret, SM…
Allow me to make a point. Some jerk offs decided to make a point about this girl not simply because she is Muslim but because she is a Muslim living abroad in what is technically a Western nation. The same guys who are gawking at Haifa Wahbi and Ruby on Mazzika and Melody (arabic music video channels) are the same guys who are criticizing this girl. Lets not also forget the Beauty pagent contestants from other Muslim countries. These guys are just taking pot shots wherever they can find something “News worthy” in order to further their cause. Is it unique, no but does it reflect the problem in the middle east? Certainly!
August 28th, 2006 at 2:34 am
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/1054303131.3489800261.jpg
Here she is Miss Egypt one of very many and people in Egypt voted for her. So what is the big deal of one cleric opposing this?
http://www.lemonrose.co.za/h/wallpaper/miss_universe_2005/1024/miss_egypt.jpg
Another one in 2005 whether she is muslim, copt or whatever religion the competition takes place despite all the craziness.
Enjoy the Egyptian beauties and chill people
August 28th, 2006 at 2:42 am
D.B.,
You opened a bit topic here about Ruby and Haifa(winks @ya) but I have different opinion about them, but the main idea here that they exist and have big base of fans, there are so many contradictions in the Egyptian and Lebanese society, the poor and the rich and so on, it only shows that there are many naked women out there performing soft porn in the M.E. and they are not wearing burka LOL!
August 28th, 2006 at 3:52 am
The whole issue is CONTROL! Assholes, be they oppressed Islamic cleric or rethuglican fear mongerers use it to oppress those they are afraid of. Insecure leaders fear losing power to an educated, invigorated uncontrolable mass of peoples. Hence propaganda, oppressive policies and sadly death for innocents. I applaud the girl and her parents for having the kahunas to defy a fear driven sniveling old fart (who probably has a whole collection of Hustler’s under his bed) and pursuing a dream. I only pray that the backlash is not harmful (physically) and this girl can go on to live a full and satisfying life.
August 28th, 2006 at 4:21 am
OK, let the shit start. Australia isn’t just technically a western nation, it is a western nation. A mate asked me why all these arseholes come here (Aus.) to escape the shit back where they came from and then complain about the way we live. I have to say that I’m coming to the opinion that some (not all) are only coming here to spread their own twisted brand of crap into another country to make it is fucked-up as where they came from. Good on her and I hope she wins too. Unfortunately there is always some cretin who doesn’t understand the simplicity of ‘live and let live’. I think that is was Sheik Abdul Voltaire who said “I may not agree with what you say, so if you say it again I will issue a fatwah against you.”
August 28th, 2006 at 5:42 am
She is smart and cute. I hope she does well. Australia (where I live, by the way) would do well to get some cross-culture such as this. She does not have to do bikini shoots if she does not want to. I doubt that would affect her chances of winning.
Muslims can be demonised in Australia. (Yes, probably plenty of reasons why - I do not care). It is refreshing to see her get up and have a go.
Good luck Ayten !
August 28th, 2006 at 6:36 am
This is so stupid. Dumb clerics. How can they ever expect to be respected in Australian society if they carry on like this?
August 28th, 2006 at 6:46 am
Scooter, 23,
“I think that is was Sheik Abdul Voltaire who said ‘I may not agree with what you say, so if you say it again I will issue a fatwah against you.’”
LOL. (Fortunately, I am alone in the house, so I was spared some embarrassment.)
August 28th, 2006 at 6:49 am
Twosret - we all get to hear about such idiots whether SM tells us about it or not. As you point out, they do their utmost to make sure they get heard. What people see when they visit this blog that they rarely see in the mainstream media is muslims and other people from the ME who also think these people are idiots - a few vocal people from the silent majority.
August 28th, 2006 at 6:54 am
Twosret, 50-100 people can be indicative of a trend(at the very least).The reason most scientific research tries to sample at least 30 people is that above 30 the size of the sample matters much less- and that’s has been established mathematically.So unless the crowd in that street contained an improbably small cross section of the population(only 1-2 small socio-economic groups, for example) then what he heard is indicative of a trend of mind among Egyptians.Add in that he lives in Egypt and interacts with (non-expatriated)Egyptians every day and he probably has a better idea about the society then you, who by your own addmission live in the US, have.
August 28th, 2006 at 7:59 am
Post: It’s normal for People to dress and act as they want. It’s normal for 2 old men to disagree with how a teenager (or others) live their life(s)
It’s not right for those 2 men to stand-up and denounce that teenager publicly for her actions. What that says to the non mulsim world is that Islam is very different from their culture. Pathetic.
SM. At the end of the day, this is your blog. and you don’t need permission or a 2/3 majority vote to have a view of how you see things. I Like your blog as it does seem fairly even in opinion. I have visited Egypt a few times for work and like it especially Maardi and Alexandria. I think that your love of Egypt does come across in your posts. and that is one reason I read them.
August 28th, 2006 at 8:11 am
Dear twosret, have a cuppa tea and a liedown, pleaaase.
August 28th, 2006 at 8:37 am
I said it before, and I will say it again, SM is a MOSAD agent living amongst you, wake up Egyptian, there is just no other way to explain it. When the majority of your posts are against your religion, your race, and your country, something is not right. When a Jew refused to eat pork and insist on eating Kosher meat, it’s his rights, but when a Moslem shun the idea of his daughter parading herself in public in a bikini, he is backward, oppressive, and even a terrorist, funny world we live in.
August 28th, 2006 at 8:56 am
31. # Optical_Illusion Says:
“When a Jew refused to eat pork and insist on eating Kosher meat, it’s his rights, but when a Moslem shun the idea of his daughter parading herself in public in a bikini, he is backward, oppressive, and even a terrorist,”
Exactly (except for the terrorist thing)! Those two are completely different things and should be treated as such!
The jew would be practising his freedom of choice. He wouldn’t get much understanding from non-religious people (how can a pig, created by god, be unclean?!) but as long as he doesn’t demand that others do as him, fine… (I would object to the kosher meat due to cruelty to animals, but that’s another story…)
A religious leader publically demanding that someone restrict her behaviour to conform to his view on life is something else entirely. He is free to feel that she is behaving inappropriately, but since he is living in a free society, he can keep his opinion to himself. Speaking out publically can only result in distancing the muslim community from the rest of society - not a desirable result.
Her father seems like a very sensible man, which is nice to see, since standing up against oppresive religious beliefs is an all to rare occurence in muslim communities in the west, not to mention the ME.
August 28th, 2006 at 8:59 am
Optical_Illusion:
1. Using your example, the Jew doesn’t berrate you for eating pork! he may say “not for me but do as you please”
2. The Girl’s father / family seemed quite happy about the competition.
3. I personnally don’t like such competitions, but who am I to tell them that they should stop becuase of my opinions.
August 28th, 2006 at 9:43 am
Well, the story is not that easy. We are talking Victoria, right? They recently prosecuted a Christian priest for quoting Quaran unfavorably (for the cost of $2,000,000 tot he public), and let al-Quaeda member go. So I wouldn’t be surprised if those two “old men” win.
Something strange is brewing on the Left, I cannot fully understand the thing. Something like Community-ism, where multiple communities share the same country, yet operate different legal systems etc. Naturally, the young people with Muslim background will be among loosers from that arrangement. Not as bad as Jews though, so for those who are happy to be anally raped by authorities daily as soon as Jews are persecuted, the Heaven on Earth is coming.
August 28th, 2006 at 9:57 am
I’m afraid I dont agree with you SM when you say that millions of muslim women wear swimsuits on beaches in muslim countries. I went to one of the supposedly nice beaches in Egypt this summer and over a week, I hardly saw any women in swimsuits (apart from my wife and daughter). Alot of Egyptian women I know are telling me that they dont feel comfortable wearing swimsuits on beaches anymore because of the kind of looks they get. Do you know that there are private beaches for women only in Egypt now? It’s scary man. We’re turning into something very nasty and we’re almost there.
August 28th, 2006 at 10:09 am
” I have to say that I’m coming to the opinion that some (not all) are only coming here to spread their own twisted brand of crap into another country to make it is fucked-up as where they came from.”
I think they are like the Christian missionaries who went around the tropics in the 19th C bullying people into wearing “modest” costumes and generally forcing Calvinist views and the fear of Hell on everyone. These Muslims are planning to convert Australia to a fundamentalist sect of Islam.
They will do it by ratcheting up their demands. Every time the locals in Victoria (or wherever) give them a little of what they want, they will demand more. Soon there will be public executions for adultery, and all the rest of that medieval thuggery.
And it works. 150 years later, there are still Christians all over the world as a result of those missionary campaigns. The penalties for apostacy in Islam make it even harder for people to escape, once they have been captured by the organisation.
August 28th, 2006 at 10:22 am
Many feminist groups, and Christian fundamentalists have always opposed this type of competition in the States, they even tried to stop it in court. Saying it’s degrading to women, especially the swimsuit part of the show. Not much is mentioned about it, no bloggers went ballistic, no headlines blaring, “Christian fundamentalists trying to ban Teen Beauty pageant” granted it’s for a different reasons, but still the same.
August 28th, 2006 at 10:39 am
37. Optical_Illusion Says:
True (I suspect you are reffering to the US - we don’t see alot of that stuff over here in Europe), but they seldom make as much fuzz about ‘their rights being violated’ or ‘racist campaigns’ against them…
Besides, for what it’s worth, they are a part of our societies and have been for as long as our countires have existed. Muslim communities are a recent addition and usually do their best NOT to become part of the surrounding society. As such, they are still viewed as guests in our countries and, for many of them, a bunch of badly behaved guests at that…
August 28th, 2006 at 10:58 am
Bah this topic is old news. Couple years ago they held a Miss Pakistani-Canada pagent. The deprived old religous farts were all in a tizzy. Tried to get it shut down. Almost succeded. But failed.
Twosret, face it, people coming here are much more likely to believe SM knows much more than you, about the “mindset” of the Egyptian “street”. All you do is sound like an idiot. An idiot of smaller caliber like the 2 clerics in the article.
But I know you won’t.
Oh if you don’t like this. Then please, no need to reply, feel free to keep scrolling down.
August 28th, 2006 at 11:05 am
Beauty Queen Under Attack
Nutcases like the Sheik need to get a life! Muhammad certainly never even heard of a cell phone or a TV, but I bet the Sheik has both.
August 28th, 2006 at 11:48 am
I won’t lie, that chick is kind of beat. That’s why they should oppose her entering; not because she’s Muslim.
August 28th, 2006 at 11:51 am
I remember what happened when Miss Indonesia paraded in a swimsuit not so long ago. What kind of a religion Islam is if a chick in a swimming suit can “blemish” it?? Is it so weak that the morals of people will be swayed and the beliefs will tumble if she goes on to participate in the contest?
I am speechless.
August 28th, 2006 at 12:19 pm
I love you too Jason
thank you sweetie.
August 28th, 2006 at 12:29 pm
Personally, I think beauty pageant thingies are stupid and just put even more emphasis on superficial things like looks as being “all-important.” But everybody has the right to be stupid and superficial. So that said, Goooooooo Ayten!
August 28th, 2006 at 12:42 pm
#34 If I remember correctly the Christian priest was taken to court by a muslim council for inciting hatred towards Islam. And the way he incited this hatred was he read the koran in a public place. I mean, he read it out loud to some people.
That was truely a very strange case. If Australia was a muslim country then I doubt reading passages from the koran would get him in court. And by taking him to court it got passages of the koran plastered in the newspapers, so an even wider audience got to see what the christian priest had been reading - and what the muslims were complaining about.
Taking someone to court for reading your own holy book was quite a WTF moment for me and many others.
There was a another silly case (that was thrown out of court) where christians wanted the koran banned altogether. People seriously need to take life a little less seriously.
August 28th, 2006 at 12:48 pm
“Personally, I think beauty pageant thingies are stupid and just put even more emphasis on superficial things like looks as being “all-important.” But everybody has the right to be stupid and superficial”
well said and if you ask a Priest , Rabbi they will probably disagree with it too. Ayten won’t be any worse than many singers and belly dancers in the M.E. that have exposed more flesh and amazingly enough they are not killed by muslim clerics.
August 28th, 2006 at 12:55 pm
#45 "
Do you have any links to this story, it sounds crazy enough that one should read about it more.
August 28th, 2006 at 1:04 pm
Yup. I was going to say that way back when I was young like this woman, beauty pageants were frowned upon by the new and growing feminest movement. A woman’s beauty and her body have always been exploited by people with a cause. If she ain’t barefoot and pregnant or powerful and roaring she can be used as political fodder. I would say best wishes to her and I hope she enjoys the journey.
As far as the old fart who passed judgment on her is concerned, these types scare me cause in their culture there is a “violence against women is okay” mentality that is still very strong among some elements. There used to be the same thing in the West, but we would stop short of sanctioning the killing her. Not so in some places in the Middle East. So, I hope she also remains safe.
Oh, and Sandmonkey, you keep blogging and telling it how it is. Miss Double Standard Twosret is usually a scroll by for me.
August 28th, 2006 at 1:25 pm
You know, when I see a photo of a young woman who is that pretty, I think she may indeed need to cover up, if only to protect herself from the uncontrollable urges of uncivilized men. I once met a girl who claimed to put on make-up to make herself look ugly! She said she couldn’t teach high school otherwise.
August 28th, 2006 at 2:00 pm
Twosret, sorry I assumed you were a Muslim! That is a bit funny. Anyway, you can just replace where I said “Muslim” with the words “Arab”, “Egyptian”, or “Palestinian”, or whatever. It works just as well.
My point is that I’ve never taken SM’s observations to be a blanket generalization of all Arabs or Muslims; just exaperation with certain elements among them. You know I adore y’all, right? I always have, but since finding SM’s blog and many other Arab blogs, I like you even more. It’s because they are great critical thinkers. It’s a good thing.
If anything, these blogs only make Arabs look BETTER in the eyes others. It is truly wonderful feeling to find Arabs and Muslims who will talk to you about this stuff and not act like you are out of line or out of your mind for noticing it.
August 28th, 2006 at 2:33 pm
Nouri, come on man the gurl is cute…
I don’t know but check this. If those Islamic clerics wanted to advice people in general to stay modest and not wear bakinis or whatever crap, then fine no problem. However to pick on this girl and throw all those nasty things at her is just plain wrong. Forced morality is NOT true morality. I say let Allah be her judge.
I hope she wins…
August 28th, 2006 at 3:18 pm
I have to agree with Jen in one of her earlier posts: you don’t like it, don’t look. If these guys think it’s shameful, good, they’ve said their peace; now they’re done. I would wonder why they don’t like it, what about it threatens them (or arouses them) but frankly I could have done my dissertation on *that* psychological battelfield. The point is, what she’s doing has nothing to do with the Koran. She happens to be very pretty; mazal tov to her and I hope she does well.
August 28th, 2006 at 4:48 pm
Do I really have to point out that Muslim clerics expressing their anger can lead to murder? I mean, really, how big does the clue bat have to be before people understand the difference between a Christian-Jew saying “tut-tut” and Muslims following a cleric saying “BLAM-BLAM!” with a gun.
It’s not the opinion that’s the problem. It’s the ENFORCEMENT BY VIOLENCE of the opinion. Salmon Rushdie should have been the West’s defining moment of realization, but there’s no limit to stupidity.
August 28th, 2006 at 5:04 pm
I’m not sure if she’s “broke,” maybe a bit portly but definitely not broke. The fact that she’s got guts to tell these IGNORANT Imams to go f-off actually makes her gorgeous to me!
And Two, I have to be honest with you dear. I couldn’t disagree more with your first post.
“You know very well that MOST Egyptians appreciate their Pharaonic history, you are giving a very wrong image and very biased to our country.”
No, I don’t think most Egyptians appreciate their Pharaonic history. Absolutely not. I think most Egyptians are completely stupid to their history. Not you or Sandmonkey but most Egyptians don’t know shit about their history and the fact that 40% of Egyptians can’t read just validates it. And also that some dumb-asses (not all) were screaming “Allahu Akbar” when that evil “false idol” was being moved because it was a victory for Islam makes me nauseous to my core. That says a lot to me two, a lot. SM’s FIRST HAND accounts are gold! And since I try and visit Egypt every couple of years I get a “snap-shot’ in time on how the country is changing. And it’s changing radically.
And I also don’t think SM is giving a wrong or biased image of Egypt. Not at all, quite the contrary. I think he is showing a truthful and accurate depiction of what Egypt is turning into and the rising Islamism that is turning our country into Saudi Arabia. And there is no denying that. You seem to be more concerned in preserving Egypt’s image to the world/bloggers. This is something that Muburak and his cronies seem to be more concerned with. I no longer give a shit about Egypt’s image. It’s down the toilet. Once Egypt and Egyptians acknowleges that, maybe they can begin repairing it. We are starting to see a great divide between fundementalists and non-fundementalists.. And it’s not just Egypt, it’s the entire region and it even extends now as far away as Australia. And for some reason, since Egypt is the epicenter of the Arab/Muslim world, even though Egyptians AREN’T Arabs, Egypt has become a bellwether.
Ya know, I could go to any other of the Egyptian blogs out there who praise and thank Allah for the rising Islamic zeal in the country but I choose not to. I choose to visit and comment on this blog because of SM’s rationality and sanity. And it also gives a tiny sliver of hope for my parent’s country.
August 28th, 2006 at 6:14 pm
Good on ye, Ayet. Win big and smack the hypocritical asshats with your trophy. Get an education and really snap their little pea brains while you are at it.
August 28th, 2006 at 6:20 pm
I just love it when old fahrts have the nerve to criticize Almighty God. We are not supposed to look at, or appreciate the Great Creator’s best works, we are to look at cloth, and not even very nice cloth, made by human hands.
Of course, the real point is, like Chip says, the threat of deadly violence that is being made, here. The current Miss Iraq is under a death threat.
http://www.waleg.com/archives/004793.html
August 28th, 2006 at 7:31 pm
S/M;
I too am a Mossad agent, but this infidel can only say Ayten Akbar!!!
August 29th, 2006 at 12:55 am
# 47 Twosret…sorry, I should have provided links…
The way it all panned out, from a strong muslim perspective -
http://forums.muslimvillage.net/index.php?showtopic=3321&st=0
The way the christian priests see it -
http://www.catchthefire.com.au/blog/
The way the Australian media reported it -
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,20240491-5006029,00.html
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/pastors-vow-to-go-to-jail-on-hate-case/2005/06/22/1119321792033.html
This particular law is pretty silly. Muslim clerics are often shouting their intolerance and self-rightousness fom wherever they can be heard in Australia but the christians do not take them to court. These people just strengthen the belief that muslims are children, and outrageous verbal behaviour is just ignored, generally.
And I guess the Cronulla riots show that, while muslims are free to say what they like in Australia, when they perform an action which is outrageous (aka lewd comments to women on a beach followed by assaulting beach life-guards) then the general non-muslim public can be quick and cruel to exact vengance.
August 29th, 2006 at 12:57 am
I usually avoid Twosret’s idiotic comments but I made the mistake of clicking on her name, and got her blog. It’s truly horrible. She links to a horrible article by Alex. Cockburn about Israel on some leftwing conspiracy site, with this howler:
” Israel’s generals paraded on tv in resplendent uniforms …”
Tell me Twosret, how much Israeli tv does Cockburn watch? How would he know what kind of uniforms they wear? Do Israeli generals wear resplendent uniforms?
You are a fake, like the entire pseudo-Palestinian “nation” is a fake.
Fake, phony, fraud.
August 29th, 2006 at 1:29 am
Sophia,
Please repeat the same mistake my new entry is even better
August 29th, 2006 at 1:31 am
Uragan,
Thanks for the links, I will read it and reply to you and Egypeter.
August 29th, 2006 at 1:37 am
Sophia
Don’t go there. Its not worth your time. Look at it like 20 seconds of your life that you will never get back. Now you know better than to waste it in any Quixotic statements.
Haters hate, and you have to accept that there are many of them, in all shapes, sizes, religions, genders.
August 29th, 2006 at 1:48 am
Big group hug Ahhhhhhh!
August 29th, 2006 at 1:50 am
“Please repeat the same mistake my new entry is even better”
Thank you no. I don’t read porn, except for research purposes.
What a pathetic coward Twosret is, in addition to belonging to a fictitous nationhood that never existed, and never will. Running away from the truth about the state of the Arabs, which is ruled by Islamic fanaticism. I don’t care whether Twosret is a Christian or not. The Arab Christians have been so raped by Islam for so long that they can’t stop dripping shit and they can no longer stand up straight.
August 29th, 2006 at 1:58 am
Reply to # 64
“Haters hate, and you have to accept that there are many of them, in all shapes, sizes, religions, genders.”
I know reality hurts it is okay sophia, keep ranting
August 29th, 2006 at 1:59 am
Sophia remember, dhimmitude and Stockholm syndrome. This explains many things.
August 29th, 2006 at 2:03 am
sure sophia try this one too
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial
August 29th, 2006 at 2:04 am
The poor muslim teen beauty queen topic will be burried under the Jihadi Rabbi’s group comments.
Alors Alors Jihadi Rabbi club members Jihad Jihad screem we can hear you!
August 29th, 2006 at 2:17 am
http://www.jewishconscience.blogspot.com/
August 29th, 2006 at 2:41 am
See how mad I got Twosret?
When was there ever a Palestine, Twozee? When did Palestine ever exist?
August 29th, 2006 at 3:14 am
Sophia in Egypt we say to people like you “teezek hamra” sorry SM no offense man
August 29th, 2006 at 4:03 am
Sophia, google and read the Balfour Declaration. The British referred to that region as Palestine, as did many others. That is one of the pivotal documents underscoring the entire Israeli/Palestinian conflict. To suggest there was never such a place is nonsense.
August 29th, 2006 at 4:12 am
You might as well the read Wikipedia entry about historic Palestine, too.
August 29th, 2006 at 6:14 am
Twosret wrote:
50 to 100 people out of 70 million is a good representative? hmmmm
Well, if it isn’t, I suppose we will also have to throw out a lot of other results - such as Bush’s approval ratings. Lol.
As you can see below, these sort of polls typically involve between 1,000-2,000 people (out of a population of nearly 300,000,000).
http://pollingreport.com/BushJob1.htm
August 29th, 2006 at 9:18 am
Louise:
Because a region is known under a certain name (by it’s foreign occupying force, no less!!!) doesn’t mean that it has existed as a nation.
Wikipedia is essentially user comments/opinions - good for general information, but not reliable in the long run, especially when it comes to debatable issues…
August 29th, 2006 at 11:35 am
I think a good point to make here is that there is injustice, bullying, prejudice and innapropriate force in most any country and society in the world, Israelis in Gaza, Hezbollah in Lebanon, US in Iraq, British in every country they could be in, you name it it’s been done by one side to the other.
Some people see injustice and support it, some create more and some people choose to do something about it. Some intelligent people see injustice everywhere and realise that there is little they can do in the big picture, but they can influence things in small ways and hope that this action makes a difference.
Then there are those whose emotional problems will not allow them to see that they do not have the moral highground, that there are two sides to every issue and that there is usually some right to both sides.
The more i see of the Islamic Jihadi’s arguments the more often this refusal to accept even some blame occurs. To be seen to back down to a position of compromise, to have to explain their increasingly irrational arguments to anyone, the preponderance of the wailing of their victimisation in an attempt to ward off scrutiny of logic and facts and history, the constant reliance on an understanding of their particular culture and religion that obviously us philistines and infidels can’t even begin to understand what’s going on from their point of view. All this means that they offer less and less of a cogent discussion without changing the rules constantly to avoid being pinned down on facts and chronology, arguing from both sides at once, contradicting themselves and then denying their stance when it’s untenable.
It’s the the debating abilitites, discernment and arguments of children, and it’s children with guns. God/Allah/G*d help us all.
Twosret i’ve tried repeatedly to see your point of view in the belief that it would allow me to perceive some truths that were obscured from me, in the hope that i would develop a better understanding of your points and therefore another cultural viewpoint. It’s in vain. I KNOW that there is illtreatment and injustice being performed on the Palestinians as we speak. Your utter refusal to admit to any wrongdoing by any Arab/Palestinian anywhere shows you to be as blind to the failings of your own chosen side as you are resistant to any attempt to not personalise arguments with your constant insults to people’s intelligence and logic.
You are a forum troll. I can’t believe it took me this long to see it. Oh and if you don’t like Sam’s view of his country, why not follow your advice and scroll past the link in your favourites bar. Either that or please please give us cogent reasoned arguments that make a good case, the world needs two sides to an argument. Everyone needs more than “ignorance is better than criticism” arguments.
August 29th, 2006 at 12:29 pm
Nobody used the word “nation”, Adam. Moreover, the word “nation” has more than one meaning. It can simply mean a tribe and the concept of a nation state is a relatively recent construct. Truth be told the “nation” of Israel did exist before 1948 either, so to allow this debate to hinge upon that concept is a losing strategy. The place was called Palestine, long before it became Israel. Read Lord Palmerston’s 1840 letter to British Ambassador in Constantinople, for an example.
The fact remains, there have always been people living there and a population, which, throughout history have been referred to as Palestinians or Filistines, in Arabic, and other variant spellings. Throughout history, others have always referred to them as such and they experienced considerable dislocation in the years immediately before and after the establishment of the state of Israel. That is the truth.
It does not mean that the Pals have been the good guys, because they certainly haven’t, most especially under the “leadership” of Yasser Arafat. Nor does it mean they continue to have a just cause, because IMHO they squandered that a very long time ago, having repeatedly passed up opportunities for peace and having allowed their strategies to become hideously grotesque. Personally, I think they have long since forgotten their original goal.
Shit happens in history. The Pals should get over it and get on with becoming human again. I’m simply saying it is incorrect to suggest there never was a place called Palestine nor Arabs living in that place. Why would the word be mentioned in the British letters, if such a place did not exist?
August 29th, 2006 at 12:32 pm
Sorry. Typo. Should be “the nation of Israel did not exist before 1948 either”
August 29th, 2006 at 12:35 pm
Three cheers, Canicula! You’ve made my point better than I did.
August 29th, 2006 at 1:35 pm
77. Louise:
“belonging to a fictitous nationhood that never existed, and never will”
That’s what I figured you were reffering to/commenting on - sure looks like ‘nation’ to me, but if I have misunderstood you, i apologize.
However, I do feel that without the concept of a nation in one way or another, the whole conflict is moot… Which it is, if you disregard religion!
The place has also been called Judea since before recorded history, so why shouldn’t we respect this as well?
The problem is, different groups of people - call them tribes if you will - have lived in a mixed society with no clear borders and changing leaders. The jews have an ancient and god-given claim to the land, an arguement that non-jews and most modern people have a hard time taking seriously. The Palestines claim that jews invaded their land of Palestine, despite the fact that English/Syrian/Tyrkish governments had been in control right up to the founding of Israel and hundreds of years back in history.
What baffles us in the west is why these people cannot live together in a secular democracy where everyone can practice their own religion to their hearts content, and it appears to us that the Palestinians are the biggest obstacle toward this end…
August 29th, 2006 at 1:37 pm
“Three cheers, Canicula! You’ve made my point better than I did.”
Yes, I pretty much agree with him too. None of us are saints, after all…
August 29th, 2006 at 2:00 pm
Seriously,
Who follows/watches these pageants anymore?
We have internet now
August 29th, 2006 at 2:27 pm
About the Muslim reaction to the young girl in the beauty contest- You know what- that’s what Muslims are like here in Australia. Everytime you meet a Muslim here they try to make out they are more Muslim than the last Muslim you met. It really gets to me. I know Yasser Soliman (one of the so called “Islamic leaders” referred to in the papers) and he is generally a cool guy- but everytime one of our “leaders” here in Australia gets a microphone shoved in HIS face (yes they are almost all men) he says something to reinforce the negative stereotype that we Muslims in Australia have to deal with everyday of our lives. The media loves it- so they keep going back to the “leaders” who will give them exactly what they want- more fodder to feed the ignorant masses craving for anything that reinforces the idea that Muslims are an alien , incompatible, out of place ‘other’ in Australia. The problem is that everytime a Muslim “leader” expresses his opinion or view or talks about the “Muslim community” in Australia, he speaks through a very narrow lense of Islam. Muslims here are defined ONLY by their reigious identity- which denies us political citizenship. What we need is for the real Australian Muslims to use the common currency of political language in the public space and to start talking about Muslims as social, political and economic citizens of Australia instead of taking the moral highground and talking about Muslims and Islam as if we are different, separate, ‘better’ and incapable of living in a liberal democracy. Will the real Muslim Australians please stand up!
August 29th, 2006 at 3:03 pm
Anne, a very good point and one that needs to be made in every country.
In Britain, the vocal minority are heard spouting extremist religious tat over and over again, which makes good copy for the media, sells newspapers and brings viewers who rave at the bloody foriegners, but is generally not representative of people who work and have aspirations and concerns like everyone else and just get on with life.
As was once said by G.K.Chesterton “The real American is all right; it is the ideal American who is all wrong”. The same could be said for the ideal Muslim, from a clerics view of ideal anyway.
August 29th, 2006 at 10:38 pm
[...] Australian Muslim teen is a slur on Islam - Miss Australia contestant being hounded by imams. I’m with Sandmonkey on this one. [...]
August 29th, 2006 at 11:24 pm
“Because a region is known under a certain name (by it’s foreign occupying force, no less!!!) doesn’t mean that it has existed as a nation.”
“Nobody used the word “nation”, Adam.”
I did.
“called Palestine, long before it became Israel. Read Lord Palmerston’s 1840 letter to British Ambassador in Constantinople, for an example.”
Bull-fucking-shit, Louise. Palestine as an entity did not exist under the Ottomans.
“The fact remains, there have always been people living there and a population, which, throughout history have been referred to as Palestinians or Filistines, in Arabic, and other variant spellings. ”
More bullshit.
“Throughout history, others have always referred to them as such and they experienced considerable dislocation in the years immediately before and after the establishment of the state of Israel. That is the truth. ”
No it’s not Louise. This is simply false, and you have no idea what you are talking about.
There was never a “Palestinian” nation. Arabs, when the entity was called the Palestine Mandate, were called Arabs, and the Jews were called….Palestinians.
August 30th, 2006 at 3:24 am
Yea, and when the Palestinians started settling the region, it was nothing but desert and marshes. The few Arabs that were in the region, had nothing but the clothes on their backs and the tents that they slept in and a few goats.
The land was worthless, less than worthless, it was a bleak dangerous place to try to live.
Yet the Palestinians (the Jews) made the deserts bloom and drained the marshes.
Now, the Arabs want what was never theirs back.
I wonder if they would want it if it was in it’s original state?
Oh, yea, I forgot it is not about land, it is about religion.
Islam over all.
Papa Ray
West Texas
USA
August 31st, 2006 at 2:03 pm
i think the point twosret was trying to make is that sm is makign a point of singling out idiotic motherfuckers in an attempt to fruther discredit outisde views of islam, as if those are mainstream views. he also blows things way outta proportion.
it’s just irresponsible for someone with his readership to do this. it’s deceptive, in a way. also, are u guys aware that he rarely reads the comments because there are so many nutjobs of every stripe here?
September 1st, 2006 at 4:16 am
“I don’t know but check this. If those Islamic clerics wanted to advice people in general to stay modest and not wear bakinis or whatever crap, then fine no problem. However to pick on this girl and throw all those nasty things at her is just plain wrong. Forced morality is NOT true morality. I say let Allah be her judge. ”
True, that is what too many Muslims do not get; you cannot force your morality on someone and then expect it to be real. Forced morality is just as good as no morality at all. I don’t like pageants, but I’m not going to call her a slur/slut and boycott her. Let her do as she wishes. She’s an individual like the rest of us.
I still think the girl is sort of well, gross. Maybe its the complexion or the meat, but she’s not hot. And she’s around my age too. Like, I would not approach her for a date or the like if she were one of my peers. Not my type, that’s all I’m saying.
November 4th, 2006 at 3:15 am
Can I just get my head round this one…?
The swimsuit girl is a slur on her religion, my Algerian friend is certain that her sister will go to Hell for not wearing hijab , but if you strap on a belt of dynamite and take out a falafel stand complete with clientele it’s a paradise-worthy act.
Some things seem a bit cockeyed to me…..
November 26th, 2006 at 9:57 pm
Doesn’t seem to matter now, the judging was rigged and Ema Masters got ripped off. She was the winner as she had the most votes.
September 15th, 2007 at 6:44 am
Talk about Egypt, if you are not muslim you are treated like shit there I was there last year and saw and experienced it 1st hand if you are a woman and dressed like normal women do you cop shit every where you must wear the tent outfit or else you are uncovered meat, that idiot from lakemba only spouted out the shit they live and believe in in egypt. I had egyptian friend with me and his Dutch wife and every where they went they had trouble, we could not even go for a swim at the beach in Alexandria, the beach was packed women dressed like walking tent and their retard blokes leering at our women in T-shirts and shorts and their women sat next to them, when my girlfriend took off her t-shirt and short to swim the whole beach stood up to look … it was like they never saw women before. It must be the reason why their women are so covered up due to being butt ugly or somethin
March 31st, 2008 at 10:13 pm
The point about this isn’t to not follow your dream. Infact I admire Ayet for doing this, and having a dream of her own to follow.
It’s just that she is Muslim, and in Islam, it’s against the rules to go and wear a swimsuit that’s half nude. And I’m just saying that if she really believed in her religion, she wouldn’t have done it. And the fact that I am Muslim and love my religion doesn’t mean I would want to wear a bikini or something, Muslim women aren’t butt ugly, they just don’t walk around half naked.
March 31st, 2008 at 10:14 pm
wouldn’t want, sorry my mistake on the spelling
September 13th, 2008 at 8:45 pm
Here is an answer to the islamic fanatics!!!
They are always lashing at people for “insulting islam and their Muhammad.” Yet they are the ones who are prophesizing the intolerance of a different point of lifestyle, teaching and religion.
For those two idiots, I would like to say the following personally:
Would you like to reply to the fact that 8 years old children are getting married with the 26 or even 49 years old men (adults anyways.) Is that the propper teaching of islam as a religion?
Wow.
This young 11 years old girl is putting a mud on her faith, islam, because she is parading in a swim suit as a normal teenager, and yet, you idiots are setting up marriages with even YOUNGER CHILDREN. DOESN’T ANYONE IN YOUR COUNTRY SEE ANYTHING A TAD BIT WRONG ABOUT THAT?
I understand that islam allows sexual intercourse between A HUSBAND AND A WIFE alone. You are such hypocrits and idiots that it is even funny to make a comment on. It is so unnecessary to point out your irregularities with the common sense.
Let’s put it in Layman’s terms.
According to islamic preachers, IT IS O.K. for an 8 years old girl to marry an adult and have sex, yet it is VERY BAD and CONTRARY to islam way of life for an eleven years old girl to enter a beauty contest.
Wow. You guys blow me away!
You are idiots for denying this girl to show her beautiful face in a beautiful, yet proper way, certainly not in the way like you perverts are setting up “arranged marriages.”
Are your men pussies enough or too afraid to ask a girl of their own age, adult, on a propper date, so that is the reason you would like to enslave an 8 years old girl to a marriage that she does not have an understanding of an adult? I guess stealing an innocence of an 8 years old girl is a way of life in islam, having a wish to compete in a beauty contest is against the way of life that is preached by islam.
YOU ARE SICK!
September 13th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
Sorry, 16 years old teenager.
Which makes my point even firmer!!!
August 23rd, 2009 at 1:03 pm
Islam has no place in Australia and the modern world
Muhammad was a kiddy fiddler and so are most clerics.
Sick and perverted no place here, ban it now.