![](”http://static.flickr.com/44/116364022_14e11279b9_o.jpg")
Trackbacks and Pings
Hyscience trackbacked with Remembering Where We Were on 9/11 - What Matters Next Is Where We Go From Here
Freedoms Zone trackbacked with Remembering Where We Were on 9/11 - What Matters Next Is Where We Go From Here
Freedom » Blog Archive » Only shadows remain… pinged this post.
September 11th, 2006 at 4:14 pm
nice pitchures !
September 11th, 2006 at 5:25 pm
I hadn’t seen the footage of the buildings collapsing for a long time. Watching a replay of the coverage on TV today really hits home.
Thanks, SM. I appreciate this more than you know; even more so after watching the replays the Palestinians prancing around in the streets and passing out candy on September 11, 2001. It is nice to see a completely different vibe in that part of the world.
September 11th, 2006 at 5:44 pm
Remembering Where We Were on 9/11 - What Matters Next Is Where We Go From Here
… instead of even thinking about joining hands in warm embrace and singing Kumbaya with our enemies, let’s join together with each other as Americans all - Buddhists, Christians, Jews, Hindus, etc… etc… , and go kick the s**t out of those that …
September 11th, 2006 at 5:57 pm
Worth a read:
http://hotair.com/archives/2006/09/11/five-years-on/
September 11th, 2006 at 6:05 pm
Remembering Where We Were on 9/11 - What Matters Next Is Where We Go From Here
instead of even thinking about joining hands in warm embrace and singing Kumbaya with our enemies, as some on the Left would have us do, we need to join together with each other as Americans all - Buddhists, Christians, Jews, Hindus, etc… etc… , a…
September 11th, 2006 at 7:50 pm
Thank you, Sandmonkey.
I do a lot of business by fax, and on that day, the first two “are you ok?” faxes came from — Russia and Taiwan. It was a day when the adults in this world used their faxes and phones to check up on one another, to offer condolences and good will. I could almost feel that gossamer safety net holding the whole world together — because we did not know what the next day would bring.
I don’t know if this old world is safer, yet. But I have seen many people decide that they would do what they could to make it better. So, my thanks to all of them, including the ones who do not agree with me on what to do next.
September 11th, 2006 at 8:10 pm
I’ll never forget this day… never ever!
September 11th, 2006 at 9:30 pm
Thank you for the pictures and for your excellent blog.
I hope we all can meet someday in a happier world.
September 11th, 2006 at 9:54 pm
Sorry, but it didn´t change the world !
It was spectacular nothing else. A great show that changed nothing…
September 11th, 2006 at 9:57 pm
BTW, the top picture is great.
September 11th, 2006 at 11:06 pm
Nice.
Thanks.
September 11th, 2006 at 11:19 pm
Let’s see here:
If 9-11 never happened, the Afghanis would probably still be enjoying life with the Taliban. The Iraqis would probably still have Saddam to revere. Al Zarqawi would still be operating, probably in Jordan. The Iran situation would be very different.
The Europeans would probably have had more bad terrorism, because all governments stepped up prevention and security after 9-11. We in the US would still be asleep at the switch, thinking it didn’t matter because nobody hit us hard yet.
Maybe from the terrorists’ point of view they should have waited until they took over Europe before hitting us. But you can’t expect good planning out of people who say they are acting for Islam and then kill more Muslims than anybody else. If there is one thing they are good at, it’s killing Muslims.
It would be interesting to look at figures worldwide over the years since 9-11. Even counting 9-11, 7-7, the Spanish and Indian atrocities, etc., I’ll bet the count on Muslims is way higher than any other group of murderees. Iraq alone just about guarantees that. Do we get to add in the 800-900 Lebanese that Hezbollah’s great decision cost? Most of them were surely Muslim.
Not only are terrorists egomaniac criminal thugs, they are idiots.
September 11th, 2006 at 11:36 pm
I’ll never forget that horrible day.
Al-Qaeda must be destroyed, and extremists need to be excised from Muslim society completely.
September 12th, 2006 at 2:11 am
They will never stop until they have destroyed the western world. Thanks to liberal immigration laws in the west and multiculturalism in Canada specifically, they can infiltrate and destroy from within.
We will never be the same after 9/11 The western libs dont have the guts to do what needs to be done.
September 12th, 2006 at 3:44 am
SM. Thanks for remembering.
September 12th, 2006 at 6:35 am
Nice pictures bro…
Down with al-Qaeda and every single person who thinks like them or even supports them.
September 12th, 2006 at 9:14 am
…and so the circle goes on and on…
September 12th, 2006 at 9:47 am
it’s been going on since time began, the difference is that in the old days it was: you have fields and food, we take them.
When people realised that there was only so much greed the world would tolerate, it moved on to: You think differently to us and we will kill you for it.
I can’t think of any occasion including either world war, when mankind looked at itself and realised that it didn’t actually have to follow this path.
September 12th, 2006 at 10:05 am
[...] As seen on Rantings of a SandmonkeyWhy do only shadows remain? [...]
September 12th, 2006 at 12:07 pm
Still can’t get over the power of the images in seeing the first plane hit then the second a time later, people jumping off the buildings from incredible heights to their deaths, then the eventual but strangely steady collapse of the building into dust; the clouds of black and gey smoke devouring manhattan in gradual billowing wafts. Its something I will never forget.
jodetoad,
“he Europeans would probably have had more bad terrorism, because all governments stepped up prevention and security after 9-11.”
No. Its anglo-american war in Iraq which has increased terrorism. I’m neutral on the matter myself because i know i can’t do a thing about it and people will find an exucse to kill eachother anyway… but seriously, you gotta be crazy not to link the cohesion of radical anti-western islam with the war in iraq, desbutes in the ME prior to iraq, and the failed and senseless fighting in the lebanon…
September 12th, 2006 at 1:02 pm
You need something else SM…like an alert post. Tried to E you re something hours ago (Syria) but appears that there are problems. E is shite. Because of time lines we have a com problem. Op Perth at 2255 kilo…6 SASR injured
September 12th, 2006 at 1:05 pm
what that last one left out was 200 + were toasted…whose filter is running this ?
September 12th, 2006 at 1:06 pm
what that last one left out was 200 + Talib were toasted…whose filter is running this ?
September 12th, 2006 at 2:42 pm
Lebanon only has 3.5 million current inhabitants (and about 400,000 Palestinian refugees). It is a very small country and yet…
1. It has 18 religious (Christiand and Muslim) communities
2. It has 40 daily newspapers
3. It has 42 universities
4. It has over 100 banks (that is banks and not branches)
5. 70% of the students are in private schools
6. 40% of the population are Christians (the highest
percentage of all the Arab countries)
7. There’s 1 doctor per 10 people in Lebanon (In Europe & America,
there’s 1 doctor per 100 people)
8. The name LEBANON appears 75 times in the Old Testament
9. The name CEDAR (the national tree) appears 75 times in the Old
Testament
10. Beirut was destroyed and rebuilt 7 times (this is why it’s compared
to The Phoenix).
11. 3.5 million Lebanese live in Lebanon
12. 10 million Lebanese live outside Lebanon
13. Throughout history Lebanon was occupied by over 16 invading forces and countries: The Pharaonic Egyptians, the Hittites, the Assyrians, the Babylonians, the Persians, Alexander the Great, the Roman Empire, the Byzantines, the Muslim Arabs, the Crusaders, the Ottomans, Britain, France, Israel and Syria.
14. Byblos (city in Lebanon) is one of the oldest, continuously inhabited city in the world.
15. Lebanon’s name has been around for 4,000 yrs non- stop (it’s one of the
oldest country names in the world!)
16. Lebanon is the only Asian/African country that doesn’t have a desert.
17. There are 15 rivers in Lebanon (all of them from its own mountains)
18. Lebanon has the highest archeological site density in the world.
19. The first alphabet was created in Byblos (a city in Lebanon)
20. The only remaining temple of Jupiter (the Roman god) is in
Baalbeck, Lebanon (The City of the Sun)
21. The name of BYBLOS is related to the Bible.
22. According to Christianity Jesus Christ performed his 1st miracle in
Lebanon, in Qana (The miracle of turning water into wine).
23. One of the first Roman law schools in the world was built in Lebanon, in current day Beirut.
24. There is a saying that Lebanon’s cedars were planted by God’s own hands (This is why they’re sometimes called “The Cedars of God”, and Lebanon “God’s Country on Earth.”)
25. Lebanon has mountains (with snow in winter), sunkissed beaches and flat fertile valleys… and produces some wonderful wine in the Bekaa valley!
September 12th, 2006 at 2:44 pm
Dom_inNZ:
Not really. The war in Iraq and Afghanistan has caused the terrorists to be more active because they are threatened.
The war in Lebanon was initiated by Hizballah: they, too, use every means possible to increase their power.
Basically, the twisted pro-terrorist media coverage is the best weapon the terrorists have.
It is amusing that you seem to believe that inaction would have been somehow better.
September 12th, 2006 at 2:52 pm
An Israeli lands in Norway right after the way. The immigration officer looks at his passport and says “Occupation?”
The Israeli answers: “No, just tourism.”
September 12th, 2006 at 3:26 pm
What goes around comes around remember Japan 140,000 dead in Hiroshima and 74000 in Nagasaki, please dont tell me that this even compares.
September 12th, 2006 at 3:42 pm
brill pics, how did they do those i wonder
cool facts about lebanon did you know. Stop making us jealous ok ok! WE occupied you guys? our bad our bad… elet zo2 sahi7. apologies, at least you can take comfort in the fact that for the next 4000 years or so we were occupied by every other civilisation under the sun until blessed Nasser came along (im not nasserite by the way i just respect the guy because he freed us from foreign rule which plagued us since the pharaohs.
September 12th, 2006 at 3:46 pm
interesting….photo essay of how americans are remembering 9/11
photo 2 is especially
http://www.time.com/time/photoessays/2006/911_folk_art_multimedia/
September 12th, 2006 at 4:28 pm
What goes around comes around remember Japan 140,000 dead in Hiroshima and 74000 in Nagasaki, please dont tell me that this even compares.
STFU. The Japanese were a party to war. You are right though, what goes around does come around; remember Nanking?
September 12th, 2006 at 5:31 pm
SM, this might interest you
http://www.sudanesethinker.com/2006/09/12/whos-worse-us-or-them/
September 12th, 2006 at 5:40 pm
Tommy,
And Bataan. Interestingly, after the humiliating ass-whooping the Japanese and Germans received, they have become two of the USA’s best buddies.
OT, here’s an interesting op-ed from today’s NY Post:
http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/one_arabs_apology_opedcolumnists_emilio_karim_dabul.htm
September 12th, 2006 at 6:25 pm
Hey its true every dog has his dog, karma is a bitch
September 12th, 2006 at 6:59 pm
Moose, if you say there is no real moral difference between Nagasaki and 9/11, you are living up to your moniker, mentally anyway. Read some history, and come back and report how many lives would have been lost if we had not gone nulcear.
And unless you are a coward, striking back is not as bad as striking first. Striking back is a requirement of not being buried.
September 12th, 2006 at 7:41 pm
Moose - Seriously you can compare the two events? No wonder there is so much radicalism in the world if people can not appreciate the not so subtle difference.
You know what this world needs. Education, a source of truth and the ability to understand it.
September 12th, 2006 at 9:03 pm
as far as Hiroshima and Nagasaki :
“American intelligence data, revealed in the 1980s, shows that a large-scale US invasion (planned for no sooner than November 1, 1945) would have been unnecessary. Japan was working on peace negotiations with the Allies through its Moscow ambassador in July of 1945. Truman knew of these developments, the US having broken the Japanese code years earlier, and all of Japan’s military and diplomatic messages were being intercepted. On July 13, 1945, Foreign Minister Togo said: “Unconditional surrender (giving up all sovereignty) is the only obstacle to peace.” Truman knew this, and the war could have ended by simply conceding a post-war figurehead position for the emperor – a leader regarded as a deity in Japan. That concession was refused by the US, the Japanese continued negotiating for peace, and the bombs were dropped. And after the war, the emperor remained in place. So what were the real reasons for 1) the refusal to accept Japan’s offer of surrender and 2) the decision to proceed with the bombings?
Shortly after WWII, military analyst Hanson Baldwin wrote: “The Japanese, in a military sense, were in a hopeless strategic situation by the time the Potsdam demand for unconditional surrender was made on July 26, 1945.” Admiral William Leahy, top military aide to President Truman, said in his war memoirs, I Was There: “It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons. My own feeling is that in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages.” And General Dwight Eisenhower agreed.
Truman proceeded with the plans to use the bombs, but he never officially ordered the Nagasaki bomb that followed Hiroshima only three days later. There are a number of factors that helped Truman make his decision.
The US had made a huge investment in time, mind and money ($2,000,000,000 in 1940 dollars) to produce the bombs, and there was no inclination – and no guts – to stop the momentum.
The US military – as did its citizens – had a bloodthirsty appetite for revenge because of Pearl Harbor. Mercy wasn’t the mind-set of these professed Christians, and the missions were accomplished – with glee.
The Nagasaki bomb was a plutonium bomb and Hiroshima’s was uranium. Scientific curiosity certainly was a major factor for the mass slaughter of the Nagasaki community. The decision to use both bombs had obviously been made well in advance. The three day interval was unconscionably inadequate – Japan being in shambles in its communications and transportation capabilities – and besides, no one, not even the Japanese high command, fully understood what had happened at Hiroshima.
The Russians had proclaimed their intent to enter the war with Japan 90 days after V- Day, which would have been Aug. 8, two days after Hiroshima. Indeed, Russia did declare war on August 8 and was marching across Manchuria when Nagasaki was incinerated. The US didn’t want Japan surrendering to anybody else, especially a future enemy, so the first nuclear “messages” of the infantile Cold War were sent. Russia indeed received less of the spoils of war, and the two superpowers were mired in mutual moral bankruptcy and economic near-bankruptcy for the rest of the century.
An estimated 80,000 innocent civilians – plus 20,000 young essentially weaponless Japanese conscripts – died instantly in the Hiroshima bombing. Hundreds of thousands suffered agonizing burns, leukemia and infections for the rest of their shortened lives, and generations of the survivor’s progeny inherited horrible radiation-induced illnesses, cancers and premature death. What has been covered up is the fact that 12 American Navy pilots, their existence well known to the US command, were incinerated in the Hiroshima jail on Aug. 6.
The 75,000 Nagasaki victims were virtually all innocent civilians, except for the inhabitants of an allied POW camp near Nagasaki’s ground zero. They were incinerated, carbonized, then evaporated, by a scientific experiment carried out by obedient, unaware soldiers. The War Dept. knew of the existence of the POWs but, when informed, simply replied: “Targets previously assigned for Centerboard (atomic bomb mission code name) remain unchanged.”
So the end of the war in the Pacific was just one more myth in a long list of myths Americans have been fed by our military and civilian leaders, war being glorified in the process. A short list of some of the others includes the censored-out military invasions of (and usually CIA-orchestrated atrocities in) Korea, Viet Nam, Laos, Cambodia, Granada, Panama, Iraq, the Philippines, Chile, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Guatemala, Haiti, Colombia, etc, etc. But somehow we still hang on to our shaky “my country right or wrong” patriotism, desperately wanting to believe that our nation only works for peace, justice and democracy and not mainly for capitalism. While it is true that the US military has faced down a few despots, with natural heroism and sacrifice from the dead and now dying American soldiers, more often than not our methods of rationalizing the atrocities of war are identical to those of the “godless communists” or “evil empire” on the other side of the battle line. August 6 and 9, 1945 are just two more examples of the brutalization of innocent civilians in “total war,” whether it is called “regretful collateral damage” or “friendly fire.”
September 12th, 2006 at 11:46 pm
Please enlighten us at to the difference between the atomic bomb and 9/11.
“Did you KNow?” It is absolutely not possible for there to be 1 Lebanese doctor for every ten people. That just can’t sustain itself. A doctor can’t make a living with ten clients. Doctor/population ratios usually number around 2-4 doctors per 1000 population. Lebanon is probably around there.
September 13th, 2006 at 2:05 am
nomad,
You twerp! Do your homework before blurting out such ridiculous nonsense, will you?
There was no unified agreement on surrendering among the fractured leadership of the Japanese government. The reality is that while many Japanese diplomats favored surrender, the Japanese military largely did not (and importantly the Japanese military generally had the last word in Japanese society in that era). In fact, many of Japan’s military leaders felt that fighting a few more nasty battles with the Americans would get them better terms if they were to surrender. Furthermore, many of those Japanese who wanted surrender would have only consented on the condition that Japan not be occupied and there be no war crimes trials. In other words, they were not prepared to surrender unconditionally. The Japanese surrender proposal would have been as worthless as Himmler’s offer of a conditional surrender to the Allies.
The Japanese and the Germans are not like the French. They are much, much tougher breeds when it comes to war.
September 13th, 2006 at 2:11 am
Thank you, SM, for remembering 9/11 and for your very excellent blog. Lynne
September 13th, 2006 at 2:12 am
I rather be on the side of the butt of a rifle then the barrel, whether its right, wrong, moral or immoral.
I choose to live and do not want terrorists to decide for me or anyone else.
You can Monday quarterback history all you want when its said and done you maybe alive today because our grandfathers made the decisions they did.
And if we don’t make the right decisions today those same weapons could be used against us.
September 13th, 2006 at 2:15 am
My previous comment was in response to #36
September 13th, 2006 at 2:48 am
2 comments:
- for moose: anata wa baka chisai chitsu. sorekara anato wa zenzen shirimasen. if you think you know what you are talking about when it comes to japan, dont.
- nomad: dont waste the boards time with this revisionist garbage. The imperial circle refused to surrender after the first bombing, and refused to surrender after the second. it was only the intervention of the emperor that ended the war. to believe that truman didnt order personally both bombings is hysterical.
I know more about japan - and more japanese than this board put together, so stop posting horseshit like that. go ask a japanese person what who is in their mid 50s or so, whose parents would have raised them under the shadow of the bombings; they would also tell you there was no other way. Revisionist “historians” are not worth the toilet paper they write on…
September 13th, 2006 at 6:14 am
Sigh- methinks it really really sad that you all think that there is no other option to killing thousands of innocent people. Listen to yourselves, do you hear yourselves? What hope does this world have when you all are buying the crap of both the jihadis and Bush brigade about force being necessary and war being the only option?
There is never ever any justification for killing thousands of innocents- never! What are you guys telling your kids (if you have any) “yeah we bombed the shit out of Japan and killed lots of people son, but there was no other way because they were never going to surrender and the Japanese are a much tougher breed in war. But don’t you ever worry, m’boy, because you belong to the land of the free and the home of the brave”
September 13th, 2006 at 7:00 am
Nomad, it makes my head hurt to read this kind of crap.
September 13th, 2006 at 7:35 am
Anne,
Japan had plans to mobilize its civilians against Americans. The Japanese fought fanatically for the entire duration of the war. I wonder if you fully understand how fanatical the Japanese were. Maybe you should do a little reading about some of the ferocious battles fought in the Pacific between U.S. Marines and Japanese guerrillas. Attempting to use conventional bombing to get the Japanese to submit would have costed vastly more lives than two nukes - look at the death toll that was inflicted by the conventional bombing of Germany. A direct assault on Japan would have been very bloody also.
Despite nomad’s weak claims, both Hiroshima and Nagasaki were of substantial industrial and military importance. Also, nomad raises the fact that Nagasaki was home to an Allied POW camp. What she fails to point out is that Hiroshima was the only major city in Japan without such a camp. Which is one of the reasons Hiroshima was selected over other cities.
Also, nomad makes it sound as if the nuclear bombings of these two cities had something to do with the Russians. It had absolutely nothing to do with the Russians. Hiroshima had already been bombed a few days prior to the Russian declaration of war against Japan. Furthermore, the United States had already warned Japan that another attack would be coming if they did not surrender before any Russian declaration of war. In short, nomad’s claims are nonsense. It has already been pointed out by Joe that Truman was fully involved.
Nomad is engaging in typical anti-American French hyperventilation; the same sort of spin we saw from French conspiracy theorists after 9/11: light on facts, heavy on baseless accusations. What else can you expect from the same culture that brought you such insipid pseudointellectual garbage as Sartrian existentialism, Elsa Triolet-flavored Marxism, and Derrida-style deconstructionism in a vain attempt to appear to have some sort of relevancy in the world?
In conclusion, the bombings Hiroshima and Nagasaki were devastating and tragic, it couldn’t have been otherwise, but it almost certainly saved many more lives than it took - both Japanese and American. I believe we basically did the right thing.
September 13th, 2006 at 8:13 am
You twerp! Do your homework before blurting out such ridiculous nonsense, will you?
my dear Tommy (and consorts),
my home work consists on reading and searching historical facts, not your military propaganda
you said once, you have an uncle in CIA (?)
he did not indeed acknoledge you of the secret compagny businesses
Japan atom bombing was not a military decision, but rather an achievment of scientific experiences
and a demonstration of strengh in front of URSS, for your secret services knew that the Russians were preparing such a bomb (even the japaneses)
and all sort of joyoseties like biologic deseases, (antrax…)
but US were not in rest
Gordon Thomas : ” CIA, secret arms”, 2006
The Japanese and the Germans are not like the French. They are much, much tougher breeds when it comes to war
might be, but our angl-saxons allies betrayed us in Dunkerque, they run away back to UK without fighting too !
and if you do your homework too, then you should know that Germany was over armed with tanks, France had only a few, and because of speed way of moving germans could encercle our army
De Gaulle was one of the only remained fighters,
yea, I agree some of our Generals were dumasses, instead of Maginot line they should have manufactured tanks
but people in France took the relief with resistance
and thanks to your grand-fathers for helping us to finish the job
but you should aknowlege a book about their comportment in occupation written by Robert Lilly too
September 13th, 2006 at 9:56 am
“pseudointellectual garbage as Sartrian existentialism”
Maybe so but if it was for descartes where would extreme right or extreme left blogs sites be in a world of persistent political/media manipulation? If it was nt for descartes sceptical suppositions relating to apparently known facts we would still be in the dark ages on many levels. The french taught us how to doubt!…logically and with validation.
September 13th, 2006 at 10:30 am
Okay, I want an Israeli here to share with us some little known facts about Israel. We all know Israeli tendencies to occupy, pillage, and kill innoncent civilizans, but maybe is you share with us some kinder facts it would be a welcome change…
September 13th, 2006 at 11:40 am
Tommy
I don’t know about Sartrian existentialism, Elsa whowhatsoeva, and Derrida watchutalkinboutwillis. And i may be an idealist but I do realise that in the real world- wars will be fought.
But I hope for a better world- that’s all. A world where, if wars do have to happen, then they are between armies and soldiers and do not have to involve the deaths of innocent children.
Any side can draw on some kind of logic to make themselves think they did the right thing- I’m sure that Bin Laden and co can come up with a million reasons why the September 11 attacks were “the right thing”. But I believe in power to the people (yes, I guess I am an idealist) to never ever accept that killing is the right thing.
Am sad now… will go and eat chocolate!
September 13th, 2006 at 11:47 am
I don’t now wether the atombombs were necessary or not, but they sure weren’t only meant for the Japanease. It was also to show the Soviets what the US had in its arsenal. The cold war was already knocking on the door. The US, Great Britain and the Soviets were aware of what the next conflict was gonna be about after Nazi-Germany and Imperial Japan were beaten. The race to take the defeated country’s was evident in Europe, where the Soviets beat the other allies to Berlin. Why would’nt this race be on in Japan?
September 13th, 2006 at 12:41 pm
If all of the pro-deterrent theories of nuclear weapons are right (as i am sure tommy believes) then actually using the atomic bomb was the wrong, the morally indefensible thing to do. Its that simple.
September 13th, 2006 at 2:30 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Yq32vR7K6U
I am giving an argument to Tommy with this cartoon
September 13th, 2006 at 3:57 pm
So its ok to kill them and because there was not other way. What are you god now can you tell the future. Two wrongs don’t make a right you can say all you want but the trurth remains the US is the only contry to ever use an atomic weapon. Dead is dead , so try and tell me the what is the difference and you call me radical. Now I can accept that we had to do it mentaility, you had to choose between the lesser of two evils it was them or us ,but dont say “they were party to war” or ” a japanese person what who is in their mid 50s or so, whose parents would have raised them under the shadow of the bombings; they would also tell you there was no other way.” what kind of bullshit is this. Oh they had it comming please admit its war and war is not thing that you can put a set of rules around. Kill or be killed. To those piloting those planes that crashed in the tower in ther mind its the same mentality. So when I drop a bomb an atomic bomb I should know the full consequences of what I am doing. Its not simply some collateral damage. Do you understand what 80,000 people dead instantly is. I want you to think of that. Stop trying to be so high and mighty. You did what ever you had to to win and its not the first time Countries have done it but now you try to justify it. “Seriously you can compare the two events? No wonder there is so much radicalism in the world if people can not appreciate the not so subtle difference” from the people perspective of people fighting these wars it was a justify able act.
September 13th, 2006 at 3:58 pm
my home work consists on reading and searching historical facts, not your military propaganda
Fact-free facts apparently.
you said once, you have an uncle in CIA (?)
OMG! I’m part of the conspiracy also! I didn’t even know it. Actually I have an uncle in the FBI, not the CIA. If I had a relative, other than an immediate family member, in the CIA then I probably wouldn’t know about it.
Japan atom bombing was not a military decision, but rather an achievment of scientific experiences
Huh? What nonsense. Derrida would be proud.
might be, but our angl-saxons allies betrayed us in Dunkerque, they run away back to UK without fighting too !
That was the strategically smart thing to do, nomad! The BEF would have been doomed if they had stuck around and been at the receiving end of the German onslaught. The Germans were overrunning France and the BEF would have had no way to resupply. In fact, some believe that if the BEF had failed to evacuate, the British would have seen their own country overrun or their leaders anxious to strike compromise with the Nazis. The idea of the British sticking around and jeopardizing their own national existence to save the French is ludicrous. I guess you French people still haven’t learned that it is up to the French to fight for France. Besides, the BEF saved France’s ass plenty enough back in the First World War. Later on, those forces that were evacuated became the core of the British assault on the Third Reich.
and a demonstration of strengh in front of URSS, for your secret services knew that the Russians were preparing such a bomb (even the japaneses)
and all sort of joyoseties like biologic deseases, (antrax…)
joyoseties. I lke that one!
In any event, the Soviets didn’t have any nuclear weapons until 1949: four years after the cessation of hostilies. They obtained their nuclear weapons partially by spying on the US nuclear program. Given that fact, they couldn’t have beaten us to the bomb.
and if you do your homework too, then you should know that Germany was over armed with tanks, France had only a few, and because of speed way of moving germans could encercle our army
That is because foolish France, in spite of having an army substantially larger than Germany’s prior to the Munich Agreement, decided to put all its military resources into static defenses like the Maginot Line. The Germans wisely invested their resources in enhancing their dynamic and offensive capabilities.
De Gaulle was one of the only remained fighters,
Roosvelt had the right idea about De Gaulle: make him governor of Madagascar.
yea, I agree some of our Generals were dumasses, instead of Maginot line they should have manufactured tanks
Glad to see you agree.
and thanks to your grand-fathers for helping us to finish the job
Hey. How you know my grandfather was a World War II vet who fought on the European front?
but you should aknowlege a book about their comportment in occupation written by Robert Lilly too
Unfortunately, I don’t think Robert Lilly’s book is available in the English language. If it basically says that American GIs committed a fair share of rapes during the liberation of Europe, I have heard that before. I don’t doubt it may be true. Perhaps not coincidentally, the Americans were practically the only army around that didn’t supply their troops with prostitutes.
September 13th, 2006 at 4:19 pm
Moose,
So its ok to kill them and because there was not other way. What are you god now can you tell the future.
It is OK to kill them because that is war and this decision saved more lives than its costed and yes there was no other way that would have been less bloody. How about that?
Dead is dead , so try and tell me the what is the difference and you call me radical.
More dead is worse than less dead.
but dont say “they were party to war” or ” a japanese person what who is in their mid 50s or so, whose parents would have raised them under the shadow of the bombings;
That bullshit, as you call it, is what we call the truth. The Japanese were a party to war and the Japanese people of that era were prepared to defend their homeland fanatically.
I want you to consider the following. Here are the figures for the dead and missing at the Battle of Okinawa - and Okinawa is just a group of tiny islands: Americans lost about 12,500 people. The Japanese lost about 110,000 people.
You can see that it doesn’t take too many battles like that to push us well up and over the casualty figures for Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The slaughter would have been far worse if it had been poorly trained Japanese civilians who had tried to challenge U.S. Marines: exactly the sort of scenario that might have played out if Japan had been invaded.
Do you understand what 80,000 people dead instantly is.
Do you unerstand what hundreds of thousands not-so-instantly dead is?
To those piloting those planes that crashed in the tower in ther mind its the same mentality.
No. The mentality of the 9/11 hijackers was more like that of a fanatical kamikaze attacking Pearl Harbor.
September 13th, 2006 at 4:34 pm
I am giving an argument to Tommy with this cartoon
You sank my battleship.
September 13th, 2006 at 4:59 pm
iOMG! I’m part of the conspiracy also!
hey aren’t you pretending your fully aware !
by the ways, was Derida a part of your home work ?
The idea of the British sticking around and jeopardizing their own national existence to save the French is ludicrous
uhe, of course, they made a good job to sink our ships in Algeria,
nice, indeed !
In any event, the Soviets didn’t have any nuclear weapons until 1949: four years after the cessation of hostilies. They obtained their nuclear weapons partially by spying on the US nuclear program.
that is what your saying !
Roosvelt had the right idea about De Gaulle: make him governor of Madagascar.
hehe because he kick your ass !
Hey. How you know my grandfather was a World War II vet who fought on the European front?
yea, he was german, nah ?
Perhaps not coincidentally, the Americans were practically the only army around that didn’t supply their troops with prostitutes.
no need for them, they thought they were wellcome to take whatever they wanted
September 13th, 2006 at 5:04 pm
You sank my battleship.
but I am not should of that :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjJvZjUvYyM
September 13th, 2006 at 6:46 pm
We don’t know what would have happened if the invasion took place in Japan, and the fact that you are saying its like you were doing them a favor let me liquidate a few thousand of you so I can spare the rest of you. I guess its all fair in Love and War. If it helps bring about a means to an end then its justify able. Both sides justify what they want on wants to end the war with as few casulaties as possible the other wants to win by any means necessary both are wrong so who gets squeezed in the middle, the civilians. whats the difference between some guy crunching numbers in an office and another selling some stuff in a shop and suddenly they get killed by something falling out of the sky.
September 13th, 2006 at 7:54 pm
Moose writes:
We don’t know what would have happened if the invasion took place in Japan, and the fact that you are saying its like you were doing them a favor let me liquidate a few thousand of you so I can spare the rest of you.
War planners have to make judgements on what they think will likely occur. We cannot conduct war (or any other event in human society) without making predictions based off of the evidence we have at hand. It doesn’t take a genius to see that. I think most people realize the possibility that the Japanese would have fought up ferociously is much more likely than the possibility they would have showered roses and warm welcomes upon the invading GIs.
nomad writes:
hehe because he kick your ass !
More like, De Gaulle could lick my ass.
yea, he was german, nah ?
Actually, my grandfather was German: German-American, that is. He was a tough cookie too. He rarely talked about the war, except with his sister who was a nurse during WWII and perhaps could relate more to his experiences than others in the family. Apparently he won a Silver Star and Purple Heart during the war. He brought back a pair of German Mausers from officers he had killed along with a pair of swords that were carried by high-ranking officers. I still have those pistols and swords. He also witnessed one of the concentration camps: Dachau, I believe. One of the most interesting pictures I have of him is when he is standing outside of a village in Thuringia next to a sign with the village’s name. The name is rather unusual and it just happens share its name with our family surname even though my grandfather’s family traces its origins, as far as I can tell, to the Berlin area rather than Thuringia.
September 13th, 2006 at 8:37 pm
More like, De Gaulle could lick my ass.
baby, too big for you,
but Eisenhower , Kenedy, Nixon… did not mind to shake hands with him
try real history instead of Bush ancyclopeadia !
September 13th, 2006 at 8:43 pm
I found that funny GI boocklet edit in 1945 in understanding the frenchs, the european extraterrestes :
http://pasta.e-rcps.com/gripes/
did your government give your soldiers one for iraki ?
September 13th, 2006 at 9:43 pm
War planners have to make judgements on what they think will likely occur
The same war planers are they same ones they used in planning vietnam and Iraq people can be wrong I guess back then so many were dying a few thousand dead to further their cause was not an issue. There were others issues at stake. Even the maker of the bomb Ophenimer could not escape karma what they branded him a communist and all that.
September 13th, 2006 at 10:34 pm
nomad
“and thanks to your grand-fathers for helping us to finish the job”
Finish the Job? how many times do other countries have to help your country “finish the job”
Or did you mean the job of getting invaded?
Its real easy accept the events of WW2. I’ll show you:
How to end the war?
1. Invade
2. Bomb
Select 2 = War over
That’s it. When engaged in a war battling parties have to make decisions that go beyond civilian casualties no matter how wrong or immoral.
No matter how much you dislike history you can’t rewrite it, you can only brainwash yourself.
September 14th, 2006 at 5:52 am
yeah, and your a specialist , fuck you !
September 14th, 2006 at 10:46 pm
It doesn’t take a specialist to understand the choice.
It just takes individuals that have the balls to do what it takes to get the job done.
I don’t expect you or people like you to understand nor agree with this mentality.
September 15th, 2006 at 2:17 am
The same war planers are they same ones they used in planning vietnam and Iraq people can be wrong
Those same war planners have planned wars of all sorts, successful or otherwise. People executed plans during the American Civil War, the War of 1812, the Korean War, fuck even the Greco-Persian Wars hundreds of years before the birth of Christ involved planning (the Greeks planned better and ultimately won). So what? Are you a pacifist?
I guess back then so many were dying a few thousand dead to further their cause was not an issue
Sort of. The death toll worldwide for WWII was something on the order of 60 million. Sobbing anti-American lefties don’t even want to take a hard look at the countless people killed in Manchuria by the Japanese. The Japanese were utterly merciless. Bataan would be a shining of example of Japanese cruelty.
Here is an overview: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes
Even in retrospect, bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki looks like a wise decision.
September 15th, 2006 at 2:50 am
Italics off.
September 15th, 2006 at 7:30 am
s says,
easy to tell bullshits behind a computer,
by the ways, what are you doing at the moment , finish the job ?
Tommy, sometimes you are very sensitive, sometimes you want to act as a rambo man, are you still looking for your real personnality ?
Guess which one I enjoy the most ?
September 15th, 2006 at 7:24 pm
LMAO. You seem like a “First Blood” kinda girl, nomad. You like the Rambo character, right?
September 15th, 2006 at 9:59 pm
yes, only the Clint Eastwood’ ones, , this man knows how to talk romantic without words
I loved his last moovie with the boxing girl, in a way I found a bit myself in her comprtment
I like fighting sports, my elderly son used to be a Karate champion
September 15th, 2006 at 10:11 pm
nomad
“s says,
easy to tell bullshits behind a computer,”
I never said that.
“by the ways, what are you doing at the moment , finish the job ?”
I’m not sure exactly to what you are referring but if your referring to Iraq then my response is: You can lead a horse to water you just can’t make him drink.
September 15th, 2006 at 10:20 pm
S,
for sure GI jo
why would you that horse drink when he is,just pissed off ,
September 16th, 2006 at 2:24 pm
lol, true…..maybe because he’s thirsty?
September 16th, 2006 at 5:21 pm
nomad,
I like fighting sports, my elderly son used to be a Karate champion
Why not Savate (or Boxe Francais), instead? More French.
I loved his last moovie with the boxing girl, in a way I found a bit myself in her comprtment
Million Dollar Baby? Yeah. That wasn’t too bad. My favorite western movie is Clint Eastwood’s “Unforgiven.” I don’t like many westerns, but I do like some of the Eastwood flicks.
September 17th, 2006 at 2:54 am
Anne:
Is that you, Mrs. B?
(If so you really shouldn’t sigh so much….!)
September 17th, 2006 at 9:58 am
My favorite western movie is Clint Eastwood’s “Unforgiven.” I don’t like many westerns, but I do like some of the Eastwood flicks.
me too, even Sergio Leone’ones for their esthetic view angles, and a kind of humor in the actors’ reparties
September 24th, 2006 at 3:48 pm
the lights look better than the twin towers.