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Friday, 22 Sep 2006
Ahmeddinjad, who under his rule gays get hanged for, you know, being gay, hugging and kissing his ally and friend, the known to be really gay President of Lebanon, Emile Lahoud.
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September 22nd, 2006 at 6:36 pm
not related to this post but i figure you’re online now cuz you just posted…
how could you not commemorate Fouad el mohandes? You commemorated Steve Irwin - legend that he was. 3ammo fouad is a legend to all those who know him
RIP 3ammo fouad
September 22nd, 2006 at 6:38 pm
Oh, god, that picture makes me wanna puke. What is wrong with you, Sam? You won’t give us a pic of Carmen yet here you are posting this gay duo who look like they’re about to make out?
September 22nd, 2006 at 6:43 pm
I think the picture is kinda sexy, actually.
September 22nd, 2006 at 6:56 pm
egypeter, what you on man…me thinks you just got mesmerised by his kindersurprise yellow ring.
how do we say this nicely, ahmed is not actually a looker now is he
September 22nd, 2006 at 7:39 pm
Disgusting!!!
But on the subject of that traitor Lahoud, a Lebanese joke:
One day a fourth-grade teacher asked the children what their fathers did for a living. All the typical answers came up — mechanic, businessman, salesman, doctor, lawyer, and so forth.
But little Elie was being uncharacteristically quiet, so when the teacher prodded him about his father, he replied, “My father’s an exotic dancer in cabarets and takes off all his clothes in front of other men and they put money in his underwear. Sometimes, if the offer is really good, he will go home with some guy and make love with him for money.”
The teacher, obviously shaken by this statement, hurriedly set the other children to work on some exercises and then took little Elie aside to ask him, “Is that really true about your father?”
“No,” the boy said, “He works at the presidential palace in Baabda and helped re-elect Emile Lahoud , but I was too embarrassed to say that in front of the other kids.”
September 22nd, 2006 at 7:46 pm
since we’re all posting off the topic: why can’t middle eastern dictators look more like the finnish prime minister. It would make reading the news a bit easier:
http://www.valtioneuvosto.fi/ajankohtaista/kuvapankki/kuvalistaus.jsp?language=en&oid=4658&locale=en
September 22nd, 2006 at 8:04 pm
Lahoud thought Ahmad’s name was “I’madonkeydong”. He liked the sound of that.
Explains everything.
September 22nd, 2006 at 8:05 pm
On a post like this one, how could I not encourage everyone to take a peak at another manly Arab Hero, acting all manly:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v90dngVoBs0
September 22nd, 2006 at 8:30 pm
Is Lahoud really gay???? With a name like Emile though I would not be surprised…mind you, a stallion like Ahmad would be enough to turn anyone
September 22nd, 2006 at 8:46 pm
think it’s time for an enterprising designer to bring out an Ahmadinejad range of suits (no ties obviously) and jackets!
September 22nd, 2006 at 9:27 pm
As a matter of fact, I’ve always had this sneaking suspician that Ahmadinejad was, well, you know.
clear - that was a lovely tribute to Fouad on Twosret’s blog. A nice introduction for those of us who didn’t have the pleasure of knowing him before.
dOOd - that was unbelievable :0
September 22nd, 2006 at 9:34 pm
If there were a lethal virus transmissible only by authoritarian politico inter-male kissing, one would be able to wipe out all the members of the “little dictators’ club” with a single strategic smooch!
September 22nd, 2006 at 10:22 pm
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArtVty.jhtml?sw=cluster&itemNo=761781
IDF commander: We fired more than a million cluster bombs in Lebanon
By Meron Rappaport Last Update: 12/09/2006 14:20
“What we did was insane and monstrous, we covered entire towns in cluster bombs,” the head of an IDF rocket unit in Lebanon said regarding the use of cluster bombs and phosphorous shells during the war.
Quoting his battalion commander, the rocket unit head stated that the IDF fired around 1,800 cluster bombs, containing over 1.2 million cluster bomblets.
In addition, soldiers in IDF artillery units testified that the army used phosphorous shells during the war, widely forbidden by international law. According to their claims, the vast majority of said explosive ordinance was fired in the final 10 days of the war.
The rocket unit commander stated that Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS) platforms were heavily used in spite of the fact that they were known to be highly inaccurate.
MLRS is a track or tire carried mobile rocket launching platform, capable of firing a very high volume of mostly unguided munitions. The basic rocket fired by the platform is unguided and imprecise, with a range of about 32 kilometers. The rockets are designed to burst into sub-munitions at a planned altitude in order to blanket enemy army and personnel on the ground with smaller explosive rounds.
The use of such weaponry is controversial mainly due to its inaccuracy and ability to wreak great havoc against indeterminate targets over large areas of territory, with a margin of error of as much as 1,200 meters from the intended target to the area hit.
The cluster rounds which don’t detonate on impact, believed by the United Nations to be around 40% of those fired by the IDF in Lebanon, remain on the ground as unexploded munitions, effectively littering the landscape with thousands of land mines which will continue to claim victims long after the war has ended.
Because of their high level of failure to detonate, it is believed that there are around 500,000 unexploded munitions on the ground in Lebanon. To date 12 Lebanese civilians have been killed by these mines since the end of the war.
According to the commander, in order to compensate for the inaccuracy of the rockets and the inability to strike individual targets precisely, units would “flood” the battlefield with munitions, accounting for the littered and explosive landscape of post-war Lebanon.
When his reserve duty came to a close, the commander in question sent a letter to Defense Minister Amir Peretz outlining the use of cluster munitions, a letter which has remained unanswered.
‘Excessive injury and unnecessary suffering’
It has come to light that IDF soldiers fired phosphorous rounds in order to cause fires in Lebanon. An artillery commander has admitted to seeing trucks loaded with phosphorous rounds on their way to artillery crews in the north of Israel.
A direct hit from a phosphorous shell typically causes severe burns and a slow, painful death.
International law forbids the use of weapons that cause “excessive injury and unnecessary suffering”, and many experts are of the opinion that phosphorous rounds fall directly in that category.
The International Red Cross has determined that international law forbids the use of phosphorous and other types of flammable rounds against personnel, both civilian and military.
IDF: No violation of international law
In response, the IDF Spokesman’s Office stated that “International law does not include a sweeping prohibition of the use of cluster bombs. The convention on conventional weaponry does not declare a prohibition on [phosphorous weapons], rather, on principles regulating the use of such weapons.
“For understandable operational reasons, the IDF does not respond to [accounts of] details of weaponry in its possession.
“The IDF makes use only of methods and weaponry which are permissible under international law. Artillery fire in general, including MLRS fire, were used in response solely to firing on the state of Israel.”
The Defense Minister’s office said it had not received messages regarding cluster bomb fire.
September 22nd, 2006 at 11:36 pm
Yes Pepper the Israelis staged a military offense into Lebanon, by its nature a violent act. The Lebanese fired thousands of rockets into Israel. The Israeli cluster bombs did the job, the Iranian supplied, Lebanese Katyushas did not. Maybe the next time Iran should give hezballah cluster bombs instead. As for using cluster bombs, dead is dead no matter what kind of weapon is used. You are just as dead if someone saws your head off as you are if hit by a cluster bomb or tramples on you at Mecca. besides you are not all bent out of shape over the Muslims blowing innocent people to bits in Iraq. The Israelis lost a few soldiers and some Israeli Arabs and the Lebanese lost a horrific number of civilians and children. Can we all move on now and not keep up the “You killed 500 of my people so I will hate you forever and kill your people now, crap. It only gets more Arabs than anyone else killed.
September 22nd, 2006 at 11:37 pm
Yes Pepper the Israelis staged a military offense into Lebanon, by its nature a violent act. The Lebanese fired thousands of rockets into Israel. The Israeli cluster bombs did the job, the Iranian supplied, Lebanese Katyushas did not. Maybe the next time Iran should give hezballah cluster bombs instead. As for using cluster bombs, dead is dead no matter what kind of weapon is used. You are just as dead if someone saws your head off as you are if hit by a cluster bomb or trampled on at Mecca. besides you are not all bent out of shape over the Muslims blowing innocent people to bits in Iraq. The Israelis lost a few soldiers and some Israeli Arabs and the Lebanese lost a horrific number of civilians and children. Can we all move on now and not keep up the “You killed 500 of my people so I will hate you forever and kill your people now, crap. It only gets more Arabs than anyone else killed.
September 22nd, 2006 at 11:45 pm
Clear, you like how he looks? When does he turn into superman? Major geeky.
September 22nd, 2006 at 11:49 pm
A direct hit from a phosphorous shell typically causes severe burns and a slow, painful death.
Yes. You have any idea how rare a direct hit on a man sized target with a mortar or artillery shell is? I’ve only seen it once after witnessing tens of thousands of rounds hit the ground. And that wasn’t evena direct hit on a person, it was a direct hit on a bison. But it was a gruseome and hideous sight, I’ll admit.
International law forbids the use of weapons that cause “excessive injury and unnecessary suffering”
Very true. Weapons of cruelty include such things as flame throwers, glass shrapnel, etc. Napalm is also banned for use against human targets due to this clause in the Hague Conventions.
and many experts are of the opinion that phosphorous rounds fall directly in that category.
That’s a completely false statement. White Phosphorous has been used by every military in the world in just about every battle ever fought in the last 100 years. It’s widely known as “smoke”
I really wish this tired old false charge of war crimes would be put to bed once and for all. It’s a lie. Those so-called experts, are liars. Lets start charging the people who make false allegations of war crimes with some sort of crime themselves? There has got to be a law against making a baseless accusation of such a magnitude.
September 22nd, 2006 at 11:54 pm
“the head of an IDF rocket unit in Lebanon” is being quoted here.
It’s not Mohamed, Ahmed, or Omar speaking. What MORE do you want?
I mean seriously give me a freaking break… Do you even have a conscience?
September 22nd, 2006 at 11:58 pm
It’s cute that the Israelis are being charged with the same so-called war crimes that the US was at Falluja, though. I expect we’ll be seeing fake war crimes charges every time there is a battle, from now on. It’s the new normal.
September 23rd, 2006 at 12:01 am
“the head of an IDF rocket unit in Lebanon” is being quoted here.
So? That means I have to give him credit for being an expert in international law, or what?
It’s not Mohamed, Ahmed, or Omar speaking. What MORE do you want?
And it wasn’t an Arab who made those charges against American troops either! It was an Italian documentary maker! And the charges were repeated in the BBC long before Al Jazeera got ahold of the story! Are you saying that somebody must be telling theb truth if they aren’t arab? Liars come in all colors.
I mean seriously give me a freaking break… Do you even have a conscience?
Do you? The penalty for war crimes is death. The charges you are repeating so carelessly are false charges that carry a potential death penalty. Why are you questioning MY morality?
September 23rd, 2006 at 12:15 am
No, just your humanity.
September 23rd, 2006 at 12:20 am
Yeah. Whatever. You’re a real humanitarian, trying to get people executed on false charges. Good thing the innocent have a champion like you on their side.
September 23rd, 2006 at 12:21 am
And Qana was what Craig?
September 23rd, 2006 at 12:22 am
Your version of compassionate humanitarianism? Good thing the slain innocent Lebanese children don’t have you as their spokesperson.
September 23rd, 2006 at 12:28 am
Pepper, you made quite specific charges, that are false. I challenged them. I’m not interested in arguing the big picture with you, or any other events, other than the charges you made.
Actaully, I’m not really interested in discussing anything at all with you, since you basically called me an evil human being for having the audacity to point out the allegations you wrer making were baseless.
This is tiresome. It’s a re-peat of all the baseless charges against the US a year ago, or two years ago. Stick with the truth. You’ll serve everyone better. I’m sure the Israelis have done some wrong things in Lebanon, just as the US has done in Iraq. Stay with the things they have REALLY done wrong, and back it off on the bullshit.
September 23rd, 2006 at 12:57 am
And Qana was what Craig?
A well-exploited tragedy, Pepperhead.
September 23rd, 2006 at 1:27 am
Is it just me or does it look like Ahmeddinjad is going to go the tongue?
Viewing this picture I can’t get the music from the Blue Oyster Bar in Police Academy out of my head. http://youtube.com/watch?v=tTJMerul33E
Actually Ahmeddinjad looks a bit like he could be one of those gay bikies.
September 23rd, 2006 at 8:43 am
yeah, nice to make fun on gays, It just shows that you are frustated boys !
and the “kiss ” here quoted, reminds rather Juda’s kiss to Jesus
September 23rd, 2006 at 10:32 am
Good thing the slain innocent Lebanese children don’t have you as their spokesperson.
No, Pepper Greg, instead they have a political movement in Lebanon which thrives and makes capital out of those innocent children you talk about.
What’s a bit of loss of life when it’s all in aid of the long term goal of defeating the Zionist entity, eh?
September 23rd, 2006 at 10:35 am
yeah, nice to make fun on gays, It just shows that you are frustated boys !
I don’t think anyone is making fun of gays, rather it’s the open display of male affection from the leader of a country where homosexuality is punishable by death
September 23rd, 2006 at 12:18 pm
it’s the open display of male affection from the leader of a country where homosexuality is punishable by death
how about these two :
http://www.hermes-press.com/bush_kiss.jpg
http://freethemarket.com/images/apr05/bushandprince2.jpg
September 23rd, 2006 at 12:24 pm
“yeah, nice to make fun on gays, It just shows that you are frustated boys !”
What we’re making fun of is closet gay homophobes.
September 23rd, 2006 at 1:52 pm
Well, Whats with this Remark on Hanging gays in Iran? yeah bad and everything but what about “Kill a Gay for Christ” signs in the US?
September 23rd, 2006 at 2:40 pm
Your first example is of violence conducted by the state of Iran. Your second is of violence that will be prosecuted by the state in the US. I hope you see the difference?
Agreed that there are religious nuts in the US, but they don’t run the country. The majority of US population is moderate concerning gays (as I’m sure it is in Iran!)
September 23rd, 2006 at 2:55 pm
Abdullah,
It’s not exactly official policy. And to do so in many states would get the gay-killer the death penalty.
September 23rd, 2006 at 3:12 pm
Abdullah, WTH are you on about? Unless you are by chance talking about the Westboro Baptist Church - a bunch of homophobic loons with absolutely no affiliation to any government body that no one with any sense pays any attention to who go around desecrating soldiers graves because there are ‘gays in the military’ and telling anyone who doesn’t agree with them ‘God hates you’ - in which case you would be essentially judging a country’s policy on something comparable the statements of a madman raving in the street…
Yep - definately just as bad as the Iranian government…
September 23rd, 2006 at 3:34 pm
Pepper Greg: Your concerns are reasonable, and these are concerns that were raised by IDF soldiers who share your concerns. I hope that this will be carefully investigated. The truth is that war is just violence, and I don’t have answers for how to deal with these issues. Rockets, bombs, guns—these are all painful and deadly and these are used in all armed, military conflicts.
September 23rd, 2006 at 4:12 pm
Actually, there are persistent rumours in Lebanon that Lahoud is gay - not that there is anything wrong with that. Lahoud is a military (=gay), wears speedo at the pool (I saw him myself) and my ex-girlfriend has a gay friend who says that he had sex with Lahoud. Tolerance to homexuality in Lebanon has been greater under Lahoud than under any president.
September 23rd, 2006 at 4:46 pm
Wow, the irony is coming from Christians, who practive one of the most tollerant religions in the world when it comes to Homosexuality!
George Bush’s flavor of Christianity as per Leviticus 18:22 clearly states that homosexuality is an abomination punishable by death!
Still think Muslims are the only barbarians? Consider this:
1. Leviticus 25:44 states that one may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations.
2. You can sell you daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7.
3. A man is not allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanness - Lev.15:19-24.
4. Christianity permits you to burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, as it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9.
5. Exodus 35:2. clearly states he who works on the Sabath should be put to death.
6. Eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev.11:10.
7. Lev.21:20 states that one may not approach the altar of God if one have a defect in their sight.
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die?
9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
10. Violating Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, and wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend), cursing and blaspheming are all punishable by getting the whole town together to the offenders according to Lev.24:10-16.
11. As for people who sleep with their in-laws, the should be burned to death at a private family affair (Lev.20:14).
Now shall I cite some highlights from Judaism, or have you heard them all before?
September 23rd, 2006 at 4:50 pm
Point 10 abovbe the punishment is group stoning, sorry for they typo.
But to continue:
Judaism is based on a history of tradition and revelation. The revelation of God is recorded in the Torah, or the Old Testament of the Bible as it is known by Christians. The traditions are based on a history of interpretation of this revelation, and on customs that were never written down into the Bible.
The Bible is turned to, to find God’s commandments on matters of living your daily life, including laws governing people’s sexuality. There are several passages of the Hebrew scriptures (which will be quoted from Today’s English Version of the Bible) that have been used against homosexuality, these are:
* Leviticus 18:22-No man is to have sexual relations with another man, God hates that.
* Leviticus 20:13-If a man has sexual relations with another man, they have done a disgusting thing, and both shall be put to death. They are responsible for their own death.
* Deuteronomy 23:17-No Israelite, man or woman, is to become a temple prostitute.
September 23rd, 2006 at 4:51 pm
The conclusion: If you live in a glass house don’t throw stones. And also, if you are gay, Christianity proper and Judaism effectively sanction your death. Islam does not do that, believe it or not.
Read Sand Monkey’s informative posting on the topic.
September 23rd, 2006 at 4:52 pm
Lynne:
I agree with you entirely. War is terrible on all counts. Why can’t we all become like Costa Rica? A country that unilaterlally abolished its own army in the 1940s and has been prospering since!
September 23rd, 2006 at 4:55 pm
And here you go, the score is settled!
http://www.randomperspective.com/images/blairbushsnog.jpg
September 23rd, 2006 at 5:19 pm
Pepper Greg,
Why can’t we all become like Costa Rica?
The United States is vilified for having a huge military. But how many nations basically piggyback their national defense on the United States? Canada, Mexico, even Costa Rica knows we’ll be there - good or bad - to intervene if anyone trys to attack them. Europe has lived under the umbrella for 60 years, and hated us for it the entire time. Of course “protection” sometimes includes attacking when they choose, or are taken over by hostile governments. It’s a mixed bag, for sure. Even Castro’s Cuba can be sure we’ll intervene if, say, Spain reasserts their claim. America has, by default as much as anything, certainly not a desire to, become “the world’s policeman.”
But thanks, Canada, for all the hard fighting in Afghanistan.
September 23rd, 2006 at 5:25 pm
gotta love that photoshop!
September 23rd, 2006 at 5:35 pm
PG wow your list of commandments are amazing I hadn’t read that much from Leviticus in years! It made me really think and your right… … well you would be if people is the US or another similar country actually punished people for what the leviticus commands. You see the Bible is allowed to be discussed and interprited in a manor that would allow for it not to be taken literally and thus allow change and progression of culture. Additionally the state and religion are separate so a commandment does not have to be a law. But thanks for your interest.
September 23rd, 2006 at 5:52 pm
Peter Australia–
The music from the Blue Oyster Bar! That’s EXACTLY what that photo needed. Thanks for providing the right mental soundtrack!
September 23rd, 2006 at 6:06 pm
Pepper Greg # 37–
“Now shall I cite some highlights from Judaism, or have you heard them all before?”
In point of fact everything you cited in post #37 were highlights from Judaism. Christianity is not bound by Levitical law, although some of the more conservative ministers love to quote the wrath of the Old Testament God against a variety of abominations. While Christianity does look to the Old Testament for moral guidance, the whole point of Christianity is a New Covenant, a new realtionship with God. It is my BELIEF (please note, belief, I can’t prove it, I don’t demand that you accept it as fact, and you are welcome to deride me as a deranged and superstitious peasant) that Christ’s purpose was to give fuller meaning to the spirit of the Law, not blind adherence to the letter of the Law.
September 23rd, 2006 at 6:14 pm
Well, Whats with this Remark on Hanging gays in Iran? yeah bad and everything but what about “Kill a Gay for Christ” signs in the US?
Displaying a “kill a gay for christ” sign is certainly deplorable. But actually killing gays for Allah is even more deplorable. I recommend watching this film:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHqnSe3EqpA
As you can see, they not only execute gays in Iran, but girls who have been subjected to rape or statutory rape. Praise Allah!
September 23rd, 2006 at 6:20 pm
Pepper Greg:
George Bush’s flavor of Christianity as per Leviticus 18:22 clearly states that homosexuality is an abomination punishable by death!
Wow. That’s some serious misunderstanding of Christianity. There is one guy, a Democrat, who actually believes that crap. He gets loads of PR to make Christians look terrible: Fred Phelps.
I’m not a Christian, btw. Well, I grew up in the Christian tradition, but if I am one I’m a heretic. Even secular non-joiners know your take on GWB is bunk.
September 23rd, 2006 at 6:39 pm
Pepper Greg,
Wow, the irony is coming from Christians, who practive one of the most tollerant religions in the world when it comes to Homosexuality!
We do, actually. Show me a non-Christian country that has anywhere near the tolerance for homosexuality that virtually EVERY Christian country does. I await your list eagerly.
It’s interesting you launched such a scathing indictment of Christians without providing a single quote from the New Testament. Quite a feat.
Nomad, is this style of “tolerance” acceptable to you? I consider Pepper Greg’s tirade to be an example of religious bigotry. What do you think?
September 23rd, 2006 at 6:39 pm
Yes, look at how terrible things are in Iran.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/middle_east/5367892.stm
September 23rd, 2006 at 6:42 pm
As you can see, they not only execute gays in Iran, but girls who have been subjected to rape or statutory rape. Praise Allah!
If it is true its deplorable. But this is a film on You Tube, and I just love the obligatory “Some scenere were constructed using actors”, which basically means this is potentially bull shit propaganda.
September 23rd, 2006 at 6:59 pm
Italics off.
Pepperhead,
The film on YouTube is a BBC production. Of course there are actors involved, there were no cameras around to film the life of Atifeh prior to her execution. Scenes must be recreated.
As for your article on Iranian Jews: anyone who knows their situation knows that they cannot speak out forcefully against the regime. They are not allowed to emigrate and they must attend “Jewish” schools who’s principals are Muslims. These schools are even kept open on the Jewish Sabbath - so much for respecting their religious beliefs. The situation of Iranian Jews is tenuous. Iran’s Jewish population was much greater before the Iranian Revolution than it is today. Most Iranian Jews have fled the country. There are good reasons for this.
September 23rd, 2006 at 7:00 pm
Italics off.
September 23rd, 2006 at 7:02 pm
#48
Nomad, is this style of “tolerance” acceptable to you? I consider Pepper Greg’s tirade to be an example of religious bigotry. What do you think?
#31, my post
it’s the open display of male affection from the leader of a country where homosexuality is punishable by death
how about these two :
http://freethemarket.com/images/apr05/bushandprince2.jpg
apparently, my post are invisible till god’s foot give a kick !
well, Craig, as I said , it is easy to fool homosexuals,
religion has nothing to do, it is in culture !
and could be western or oriental civilisations, men want to show off,
really, as a feminine, I find this behaviour so silly
my male dogs are fighting the same way,
who is going to rule, the weacker must be homo, nah ?
hey, ask God, to undo my moderation plan !
shit !
September 23rd, 2006 at 7:04 pm
“Now shall I cite some highlights from Judaism, or have you heard them all before?”
Actually, that is what you did.
The Old Testament IS Judaism. Christians don’t follow the laws of Moses. The New Testament is Christianity.
September 23rd, 2006 at 7:19 pm
Pepper, you pointed out recently that most religions have many contradictions, and they do. Dr. Laura Schlesinger is a US radio personality who give advice to people who call in to her radio show. A few years ago, she said that according to Leviticus 18:22, homosexuality is an abomination and cannot be condoned under any circumstances. Here are some excepts from an open letter written to her in response (an 82 year old relative gave it to me; he found it online):
“Dear Dr. Laura, thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend homosexuality, for example, I simply remind them that Lev. 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them.
1. When I burn a bull on the alter as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim that the order is not pleasing to them. Should I smile them?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exoduc 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a good price for her?
. . . (4)Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?
(5) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. (Exodus 35:3) clearly states that she should be put to death. I am orally obligated to kill him myself?. . .
(9) I know from Lev. ll:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves? . . .
I thought the response letter was humorous. Literal interpretations of the Bible or any other religious material that comes down to us from so long ago seems risky to me. However, there is much inspiration in all religions when kindness, tolerance, and love are the values which are emphasized. No passage in any religious text can convince me to harm or mistreat others. Would I kill someone in self-defense? I hope so, though I have had many dreams where I would just freeze, unable to even move. I hope that I could defend myself.
September 23rd, 2006 at 10:10 pm
Pepper Greg,
You can never get those people to think no matter what you tell them, these are basically fundamentalists at hart. We know fundamentalists don’t think. They are indoctrinated. That man puts up a worthless YouTube video and tells me Iran executes homosexuals and little girls who have been raped etc. He would totally ignore the bbc link you provided while he would believe anything that suits his propaganda indoctrinated mind set! On the other hand that Craig goes on with pointless defense that uses 2% of my brain power to simply refute. They talk talk talk and just talk! They hardly think. Few days ago I was speaking with this German guy who lived for 2 years in Maine US. He suddenly put up a very strange comment. He said He doesn’t want to live in the US because most americans are very “Superficial” people. I just laughed! and he continued to give examples….
The world is so full of blubbering vaginas…u know
September 23rd, 2006 at 10:33 pm
Abdullah,
I read the BBC article from Pepper Greg. I thought it was more than a little dishonest. For instance, they fail to point out in the article that while Iranian Jews in the past few years have been able to travel to Israel, they usually are prevented from bringing their entire families, lest they seek to remain in Israel.
I read the article. Stop the scurrilous attacks.
The simple fact is that wherever you go in the world. If Islam is there, religious fanaticism is there. It doesn’t matter whether it is Nigeria, Morocco, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Indonesia, or Europe. Where Islam goes, trouble follows. That doesn’t mean that all Muslims are bad, but wherever Muslims are you are also bound to find fanatics.
Take a look at the lists of terrorist attacks associated with Islam since 9/11:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
No other religion comes remotely close to this level of violence.
September 23rd, 2006 at 10:39 pm
Abdullah, we are all indoctrinated to a degree, socialized and educated within our own societies. It is difficult to accept what is unfamiliar and uncomfortable to us. . . that is our challenge. In some cases, it seems like mission impossible. How to break out of the “us and them” mentality? How to actually accept others who are different from us? I believe that we should all reject any actions or ideas which may harm others. Is it possible to promote those values that we —all diverse groups—have in common? The guy in Maine—hmmmm, I think that I can understand his point of view. He may be frustrated with the people around him who are intolerant and small-minded. I think he may be given some credit for being dissatisfied with that and for hoping for something better. The US is a huge country though, with many different points of view and a variety of people from all over the world. It is hard for me to say that they are all “superficial” though undoubtedly some are. All Americans superficial? I can’t agree there.
I love SM’s blog because there are opinions from all over, and even when we do not agree, we at least can share our ideas. For me, this leads to greater understanding.
September 23rd, 2006 at 11:12 pm
hey, ask God, to undo my moderation plan !
shit !
That’s why I love you Nomad, no matter what you say
Abdullah and Pepper Greg, you guys are both just plain wrong. And you’re bigots to boot. When you make unfounded attacks on somebody’s religious beliefs, that’s bigotry. You can either educate yourselves on Christianity enough that you can make well reasoned criticisms, or you can continue to be bigots. Up to you.
Lynne, are you aware that “Doctor Laura” is Jewish? I’m not clear in what way her statements have a bearing on Christianity, am I missing something? Did she convert?
September 23rd, 2006 at 11:50 pm
Greg and Abdullah,
Gays are hanged in Iran. That’s a fact. It doesn’t take much effort to look for such stories. They’re all over the internet. Here are 2 examples:
http://atheism.about.com/b/a/187568.htm
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/7/21/1879/65145
Second link even has pictures. Just google for the phrase “iran gays hanging.”
September 23rd, 2006 at 11:55 pm
Also, more pictures here:
http://direland.typepad.com/direland/images/iran_hanging_outrage_2.jpg
http://vwt.d2g.com:8081/gay_hanging_iran.jpg
http://images.google.com/images?q=Iran%20gays%20hanging&hl=en&lr=&sa=N&tab=wi
Don’t click the first link if you have weak stomachs.
September 23rd, 2006 at 11:55 pm
Craig, oh, yes, you are right; she is Jewish. My post was in reference to Pepper’s
post #39. But, I am from the deep South in the US, and many Christians refer to both the Old Testament and the New Testament. Being from the South, I have seen both great tolerance and respect for homosexuals as well as hatred and violence toward them. There are all kinds of people who call themselves Christians–the KKK calls themselves Christians. Personally, the people that I know who are Christian are among the kindest, most tolerant people I know. I certainly do not mean to attack anyone’s religious beliefs.
September 24th, 2006 at 12:30 am
sandmonkey, u are arab right? kissing and hugging is a formal greeting, however, no one does it in the west because of the fear of gays that have not come out of their closet.
September 24th, 2006 at 12:37 am
Pepper Greg -
About Israel’s war with Hizballah (are you one or just a fellow traveler?):
This is war. Hizballah has used every civilian installation for military purposes (a war crime, BTW), and it fights without uniforms so that it can use real civilians as shields (two seperate war crimes). Israel has warned civilians in South Lebanon to leave, repeatedly and constantly. War is not meant to be proportional - it’s meant to be won.
Accordingly, after Lebanese civilians have been sufficiently warned, South Lebanon should have been glassed. And guess what - it would have been just fucking dandy according to international law. We should have systematically scorched ALL of South Lebanon, every millimeter of it, sent in the land-drones (they are in final experimental stages just now, should have been good for future wars) and then mined the whole area to make it uninhabitable for the next century or so.
And guess what? That would also have been harmonious with the godsdamn international law.
The commander of MLRS unit is a moron who’s trying to gain some publicity - MLRS in IDF is a minor unit with no importance or funding… and he’s just a fuck that had to be stuffed somewhere where his superiors thought he’d be harmless.
I sure hope that in the next, inevitable, war, IDF will use 100% and not 3% as they in this one. This will make the war after the inevitable one that much less likely.
PS
Bleeding-heart psychotic leftie fellow-travelers are killing people by encouraging the enemy. You, PG, are a murderer.
September 24th, 2006 at 12:56 am
Pepper Greg’s comments about the Jewish perspective on homosexuality are factually incorrect. You clearly are not real familiar with the situation. No Jewish person refers to the old testament.
September 24th, 2006 at 1:27 am
Raccoon, I agree that Israel did just about every possible thing to warn civilians out of the areas that were to be hit. And, Hezbollah did start this aggression. He gave no warnings to civilians; he deliberately targeted them. That is indefensible. Hezbollah hid among the civilian population and fired rockets and missles, which drew fire onto the civilians. That is indefensible. Now Nasrallah is again saying that he will destroy Israel, which does not bode well for the future. When I read about those phosphorous bombs on YNET, it seemed that these were things that should not be used. I looked them up a moment ago, and though the explanation was technical, it seems that these are used to provide cover? Is that correct?
I think that we all agree that we do not like war, but sometimes this is not our decision. It is forced on us, whether we like it or not. If Nasrallah says that he is going to destroy Israel, if he tries again, then Israel will have to respond with a military action. I believe in diplomacy, but both sides must want the same thing: to compromise and find a way to peace. I cannot imagine why Hezbollah, Syria, and Iran would not choose peace. I cannot understand it at all.
I am alarmed, very frightened by the increase in violent rhetoric and increase in violent actions. No one in his or her right mind can defend terrorism. It is simply wrong. It cannot be justified.
September 24th, 2006 at 1:29 am
Raccoon, I agree that Israel did just about every possible thing to warn civilians out of the areas that were to be hit. And, Hezbollah did start this aggression. Hezbollah gave no warnings to civilians;they deliberately targeted them. That is indefensible. Hezbollah hid among the civilian population and fired rockets and missles, which drew fire onto the civilians. That is indefensible. Now Nasrallah is again saying that he will destroy Israel, which does not bode well for the future.
What are those bombs? When I read about those phosphorous bombs on YNET, it seemed that these were things that should not be used. I looked them up a moment ago, and though the explanation was technical, it seems that these are used to provide cover? Is that correct?
I think that we all agree that we do not like war, but sometimes this is not our decision. It is forced on us, whether we like it or not. If Nasrallah says that he is going to destroy Israel, if he tries again, then Israel will have to respond with a military action. I believe in diplomacy, but both sides must want the same thing: to compromise and find a way to peace. I cannot imagine why Hezbollah, Syria, and Iran would not choose peace. I cannot understand it at all.
I am alarmed, very frightened by the increase in violent rhetoric and increase in violent actions. No one in his or her right mind can defend terrorism. It is simply wrong. It cannot be justified. It is not only making things terrible in the Middle East, it is ruining the entire world.
September 24th, 2006 at 1:31 am
Oops, went back to edit and accidently sent off the same post twice! Damn!
September 24th, 2006 at 2:09 am
White phosphorus is used mainly for cover, yes. Its also good for setting things on fire (we would remove the parachutes from mortar shells to turn them into incindiaries. The high command didn’t like it, but it did the trick better than magensium shells).
The smoke is fairly unpleasant to run through (and it stinks, too). Not as bad as tear gas, though, IIRC
It can also cause nasty burns if you’re right on it. Anyway, as a weapon it’s pretty useless.
And about why these people don’t want peace… I think it’s fairly simple. If you’re a dictator, you need to keep the people distracted. Nothing distracts a nation from its sorry state of affairs like a good war. And the terrorist organizations? It’s an easy and fun way to get respect, power and sex. So when you have a terrorist dictator, peace is pretty ruinous for you.
ME has started to change a while ago - a middle class appeared, with all that comes with it… the middle class is the dictator’s worst nightmare.
September 24th, 2006 at 2:56 am
Raccoon, thanks! I hope that there is some possibility for peace in the Middle East though it looks very discouraging right now. There are two Austin companies (high tech) that were adding engineering/high tech units in the Middle East. This would have provided many jobs for both technically educated and support personnel. One company was to have located in India. My friend and co-teacher from India, told me last week that she thought that the change had occurred due to that “Hitler Cafe” in India and the political instability there. She said that her husband, who works for one of the companies here, said that the company felt that the political climate was not right for this investment and that the unit would be located in the US, in Tennessee. I imagine that the other company had second thoughts about the stability of the entire region and those engineering jobs will be located in the US as well. The unrest and radical behaviors are taking jobs and opportunities from the people in the region, which is unfortunate.
September 24th, 2006 at 3:03 am
Raccoon, I wanted to say that I think that Pepper just hates war period. Many people read about the phosphorous bombs and were greatly alarmed. I was upset to think that people might step on them or pick them up and be harmed. I hope that this is not the case. Actually, there is no way around it: war is deadly. What I really wish is that people from within the Middle East and outside of the Middle East would demand that peaceful means be found to resolve any differences and that violence would not be acceptable. No more terrorism and no hate rhetoric!
September 24th, 2006 at 4:19 am
Lynne,
Interesting comments.
Personally, I hate war, and come from a long line of pacifists. However, I am alarmed at what I see war becoming. In the past, war was a hell that people wanted to avoid. Lately, we seem to think we can legislate war to reduce its horror, which inevitably has the effect of making it more possible.
This most recent fighting between HA and Israel settled nothing, and ensured nothing other than continued fighting. Wars that end in surrender - unpleasant as they may be - are much more likely to result in peace than wars that end in a cease-fire or an armistice. History is littered with examples, and I won’t bore everyone with a recitation of them. But getting one’s clock cleaned seems to motivate a people to do what’s necessary to keep it from happening again. A war that has a termination imposed on it from outside, and that has both sides declaring victory, is not likely to result in a lasting peace.
This is why, though I dislike war, I prefer wars to be allowed to run to their conclusion.
September 24th, 2006 at 4:25 am
And Peppy, your recitation of bible quotes totally misses the point. And while Dr. Laura may be intolerant and bigotted, one merely has to turn her show off, and she can no longer harm you at all.
September 24th, 2006 at 4:52 am
[...] [...]
September 24th, 2006 at 5:08 am
An ex-girlfriend of mine was the daughter of a contractor who worked in Saudi. One time she went to Egypt with her family and rode on a bus. She said she could see the bus driver getting a hand job from another guy while driving the bus(!) and when they both noticed she was looking, she said they just smiled at her.
September 24th, 2006 at 5:18 am
Brooklyn Jon: Thank you for your generosity regarding my comments. You are right about the conflict between Hezbollah and Israel. The fact that both sides were forced from the outside to end the conflict has created a bigger problem than before. Hezbollah was certainly not ready or willing to talk about resolustion by peaceful means. It is better when both sides are ready to put down their weapons and start talking. There is no doubt that there will not be a peaceful outcome. Nasrallah just yesterday (or the day before) stated in a fiery speech that he will attack Israel again “and destroy Israel”, and he called for a change in the government of Lebanon—and none of this is good news. He also claims that he has more weapons than before and more supporters. I always hope for diplomatic means to resolve conflicts, but it seems that Nasrallah has no interest in talking about peace with Israel. His only stated goal is the destruction of Israel, so there is no hope for a diplomatic solution until that changes. It seems that the voices are louder for hatred and violence, while the voices of reason are not heard much at all. I believe that the media sources are making things worse, polarizing and fueling hatred. Just when I think things cannot get much worse, they do! I am discouraged.
September 24th, 2006 at 5:19 am
BrooklynJon
But getting one’s clock cleaned seems to motivate a people to do what’s necessary to keep it from happening again.
Here’s a good example. The United States started the War of 1812. Things went from bad to worse for the United States. Eventually the British burned Washington DC to the ground. Well, after that Americans quit talking about invading Canada.
Most of us anyway.
OPERATION GREAT WHITE NORTH / H-HOUR 0530 / GOLF OSCAR
September 24th, 2006 at 6:10 am
…”What Would War Look Like?
A flurry of military maneuvers in the Middle East increases speculation that conflict with Iran is no longer quite so unthinkable. Here’s how the U.S. would fight such a war–and the huge price it would have to pay to win it
By MICHAEL DUFFY
Posted Sunday, Sep. 17, 2006
The first message was routine enough: a “Prepare to Deploy” order sent through naval communications channels to a submarine, an Aegis-class cruiser, two minesweepers and two mine hunters. The orders didn’t actually command the ships out of port; they just said to be ready to move by Oct. 1. But inside the Navy those messages generated more buzz than usual last week when a second request, from the Chief of Naval Operations (CNO), asked for fresh eyes on long-standing U.S. plans to blockade two Iranian oil ports on the Persian Gulf. The CNO had asked for a rundown on how a blockade of those strategic targets might work. When he didn’t like the analysis he received, he ordered his troops to work the lash up once again.
What’s going on? The two orders offered tantalizing clues. There are only a few places in the world where minesweepers top the list of U.S. naval requirements. And every sailor, petroleum engineer and hedge-fund manager knows the name of the most important: the Strait of Hormuz, the 20-mile-wide bottleneck in the Persian Gulf through which roughly 40% of the world’s oil needs to pass each day. Coupled with the CNO’s request for a blockade review, a deployment of minesweepers to the west coast of Iran would seem to suggest that a much discussed–but until now largely theoretical–prospect has become real: that the U.S. may be preparing for war with Iran.
No one knows whether–let alone when–a military confrontation with Tehran will come to pass. The fact that admirals are reviewing plans for blockades is hardly proof of their intentions. The U.S. military routinely makes plans for scores of scenarios, the vast majority of which will never be put into practice. “Planners always plan,” says a Pentagon official. Asked about the orders, a second official said only that the Navy is stepping up its “listening and learning” in the Persian Gulf but nothing more–a prudent step, he added, after Iran tested surface-to-ship missiles there in August during a two-week military exercise. And yet from the State Department to the White House to the highest reaches of the military command, there is a growing sense that a showdown with Iran–over its suspected quest for nuclear weapons, its threats against Israel and its bid for dominance of the world’s richest oil region–may be impossible to avoid. The chief of the U.S. Central Command (Centcom), General John Abizaid, has called a commanders conference for later this month in the Persian Gulf–sessions he holds at least quarterly–and Iran is on the agenda…”
http://time-proxy.yaga.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1535817,00%20.html
be happy, you’ll have your total war, prepare to die !
September 24th, 2006 at 8:03 am
That’s why I love you Nomad, no matter what you say
euh, be careful, you are not ment to !
September 24th, 2006 at 8:08 am
Lynne,
It would not be very likley that a White Phosphorous round would be unexploded and on the ground to cause a future hazard. Dud artillery and mortar rounds are exceedingly rare in the US military, and I assume in the Israeli military as well. I think you may be confusing the WP shells with the cluster bombs. Those blow apart above the ground and scatter hundreds of boblets over a wide area. They are supposed to explode on impact (the bomblets) but there are always some that do not. The unexploded ones are not much different than a small mine at that point. The US military has been trying to limit use of Cluster Bombs until the problems with unexploded bomblets are resolved, but we still use them. Cluster Bombs were developed in the early 80s to replace Napalm, because the use of Napalm was so controversial (actaully it was illegal but used anyway due to a commonly used loophole in law).
It’s an unfortunate fact that conventional bombs are not very effective against widely dispersed troops in the open. Cluster Bombs (and Napalm) are. I was in the Marines when we used both. I’ve been in close proximity when both Napalm and Cluster Bombs were dropped, and I think if I was on the recieving end, I’d vote for being hit with Cluster Bombs. Napalm is nasty stuff. . SO I support the use of Cluster Bombs until something better is found. As dangerous as the unexploded bomblets are.
Raccoon, one of the news channels I was watching had a reporter with an artillery battery, and every time they cut to him, the guns were firing single rounds, and not even from the whole battery. And in the Gaza beach incident I just couldn’t believe that 6 individual rounds had been fired at 6 different targets - one round each target.
That’s not the way the US does it at all! We’re all about 8 guns, 20 rounds each gun, HE and WP, fire for effect. 160 rounds headed downrange in a minute flat.
I’m not sure whetehr to applaud Israeli controlled-fire or condemn it. But anybody who thinks Israel was going all out doesn’t know what they are talking about.
September 24th, 2006 at 8:56 am
a complete off topic but..
For sergant Pepper, and other people who in desperate need to learn some history:
http://www.imninalu.net/myths-pals.htm
too bad twosret is not here… (:
September 24th, 2006 at 9:37 am
Is Emile Lahoud gay??!!
September 24th, 2006 at 11:26 am
Brooklyn Jon - spot on about wars.
Craig - IDF normally fires the older ammunition in low-intensity conflicts (like this war in Lebanon). Since it doesn’t officially count as a war, the emergency supplies are not opened. So there were quite a few duds being fired both at the fields near Gaza and at SL. Some batteries had as many as 20%. The AIF also used their oldest ammunition, and there are quite a few dud Hellfires in SL now, I presume.
And yeah… this whole precision strike capability is top priority currently, sometimes becoming more important than the lives of our troops. I think that what you normally saw on TV was fire on open territory - sometimes arty will land a shell once every minute or so on a hill, just to discourage HA from going up on it. Massive battery barrages are done seldom and in some very, very specific cases… I am not sure whether we did them at all in this conflict.
And I, for one, absolutely condemn the suicidal holding back. What do we have an army for if we can’t even use it against an openly genocidal enemy?
September 24th, 2006 at 11:44 am
err
right, going back to whimsy, bec thankyou yes i saw the posting on two’s blog- it was great, it’s just a shame that he wasn’t commemorated here. I loved his progs as a kid.
karen- i think Mr. Vanhanen is rather handsome for a politician- i think the glasses finish the look to make him look classy.
miss carnivorous- #15 great post missy- please apply for your local congress/parliament
Pepper greg- ooh evil evil IDF. Not so long ago and probably still ongoing, US and UK was using White Phosphorus (metal that combusts when exposed to oxygen and can burn through skin and bone producing an agonising death) against civilians as a WEAPON to flush out the enemy.
Although it is perfectly fine to use WP in legal combat, it is only supposed to be as a SMOKESCREEN to cover troops while they move and not to kill of civilians and army combatants. Protocol III of the UN’s 1980 Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons expressly forbids the use of white phosphorus against civilian targets or military targets in civilian areas- to which the UK is signed up to but not the US. The chemical Weapons convention 1997 to which US and UK are signatories of “forbids the use of any substance to kill or harm either soldiers or civilians if it is being used mostly for its toxicity.”
interesting, no?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4440664.stm
September 24th, 2006 at 12:01 pm
testing testing
September 24th, 2006 at 12:17 pm
Ugg. The cries of “white phosphorus war crimes” again. Anybody who knows anything about white phosophorus can tell you that employing it as a weapon for just about anything is a joke.
White phosphorus is an incendiary that is great for destroying enemy equipment and such, but it makes a crummy weapon. Yes, of course, if you make contact with WP it can hurt or kill you, but it is still a lousy weapon.
September 24th, 2006 at 12:20 pm
ach, finally it’s working…i tried to post something but it got spewed outta the system
back to whimsy
bec- thanks, yeah i saw it but shame that not commemorated here- i loved watching his progs.
karen- I think mr. vanhanen looks terribly handsome for a politician and the glasses give him a classy edge! Geek chic is uber cool donchaknow!
miss carnivorous- touche, touche, #15 great post- pleas apply for your local congress/parliament
pepper greg- evil evil IDF. Hmm, not so long ago the US and British armies were using White phosphorus (metal which combusts with O2 to give a gas that can burn through skin and bone resulting in an agonising death) as a WEAPON to flush out enemy combatants in Iraq.
Although WP use is permitted in war, it’s use is only supposed to be as a smokescreen for troops as they are moving and not to kill people in this horrendous way. This is according to the Chemical Weapons Convention 1997,which forbids the use of any substance to kill or harm either soldiers or civilians if it is being used mostly for its toxicity- to which both the US and UK are signed up to. ooh yeah, i know. Furthermore: “Protocol III of the UN’s 1980 Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons expressly forbids the use of white phosphorus against civilian targets or military targets in civilian areas.” to which the UK is signed up to.
interesting, no?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4441822.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4442156.stm
September 24th, 2006 at 1:34 pm
Read the entire Wikipedia article on white phosphorus. There is one good use of the weapon in an offensive capability: the “shake and bake” technique where the incendiary and smokescreen properties of the WP can be used to drive out an insurgent from a sheltered position where conventional explosions might be ineffective.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus
“Protocol III of the UN’s 1980 Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons expressly forbids the use of white phosphorus against civilian targets or military targets in civilian areas.
Not applicable to those forces which do not fight according to Geneva Convention standards. Insurgents are not covered.
September 24th, 2006 at 2:22 pm
I wonder if there are specific, concrete steps that each of us on this blog could take to make the situation better. It seems that most of us agree that military action must be used if it is forced on us, but we would all prefer peace and diplomacy. I am always thinking to myself, “What can one person do? It’s so hopeless.” But I wonder if that is true. There is a family of ranchers in a small, dusty Texas town that raises dairy goats. Water is a constant concern in the dry summer months, and they rely on their deep water well to sustain their way of life. There is no water provided by the “town” –just a handful of people all living on ranches. This family was considering their dependence on their well for fresh water, and it occurred to them that all over the world there were people who suffered for lack of clean, safe water to use. This family used their own resources to go to Mexico to dig the first of the many wells that they provide worldwide. They accept no donations, and earn the money for their little charity. I am sure that they build good will wherever they go, unlike the bungling, stupid efforts of most governments. I wonder if there is something we could each do to promote peace? Sending school supplies, just a nice box of them, to a school in Lebanon or Israel or another country that needs them? Sending medical supplies like gauze, bandaids, etc. to a hospital? Simply being the voice of reason when others are spewing hateful remarks? Contacting our representatives and government and religion leaders and asking for helping promoting peace? I just don’t feel that our governments are going to solve this situation—and it is getting so much worse every day.
September 24th, 2006 at 3:30 pm
except WP wasn’t just used against ‘insurgents’ now was it. It was used in Falujah which had a high number of civilians. IF im not mistaken, it was american soldiers who claimed that they had seen the bodies of women and children burnt
change the definition of your enemy to ‘insurgent’ and you get carte blanche- oooh that’s goood. No I am not aware of what the Geneva convention says regarding insurgents but please do enlighten me.
why is there continued use of WP and not other incendiary devices that don’t produce toxic effects?
Finally, why was the use of WP denied by US army officials? Don’t they know what’s going on on the ground? - yeah that sounds bout right.
are you their spokesperson by any chance?- you’re gooood
September 24th, 2006 at 3:36 pm
Lynne,
I appreciate your good thoughts on how to alleviate the suffering of those around the globe. Here is an example of one person making a difference.
Hes a kid named Ryan Hreljac. There are many individuals like him who step in and try to make a difference. (Check out the other stories below Hreljac’s, as well.)
Governments seem always to be slow on the uptake with this stuff, with the exception of the old Peace Corps, maybe. Unfortunately, bureaucracies are slow ships to sail, other than giving money, but individuals can make a huge difference.
September 24th, 2006 at 3:39 pm
Just to add, I don’t think that a kid like Ryan would even think about going into places like Darfur. Sad. Ultimately, it comes down to peace or violence, doesn’t it?
Say, Lynne. You didn’t used to comment on the Mahablog, did you?
September 24th, 2006 at 3:41 pm
Protocol III of the UN’s 1980 Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons expressly forbids the use of white phosphorus against civilian targets or military targets in civilian areas- to which the UK is signed up to but not the US.
No it doesn’t. Protocol III refers to incendiary weapons, and Protocol III specifically EXCLUDES smoke munitions form being considered incendiary weapons, clear. SPECIFICALLY. In anticipation of people like you. Read the goddamned thing, why don’t you?
The chemical Weapons convention 1997 to which US and UK are signatories of “forbids the use of any substance to kill or harm either soldiers or civilians if it is being used mostly for its toxicity.”
White Phosphorous does not kill due to toxicity, when it kills at all, it killls due to direct burning. First you incorrectly call it an incendiary weapon, nor you incorrectly call it a chemical weapon.
Good on you for bringing up false charges that were withdrawn 6 months ago, clear.
Read the fucking conventions man. You don’t have to be a rocket scientist.
September 24th, 2006 at 3:45 pm
Lynne,
You have some interesting and certainly nice ideas. My problem is that I don’t know if winning “hearts and minds” in this fashion really translates into anything on a large scale.
It seems to me that it isn’t the average Jane or Joe anywhere in the world that has a problem with anybody else. Like I always say, wherever you in the world most people are pretty much the same. They try and take care of themselves and their families as best they can and they don’t harbor any great ill will towards anyone else in their position wherever they may be elsewhere in the world. It doesn’t matter what their religious or cultural background is.
I think the problem comes from two sources: authority figures and the ideologies they promote. Giving some school supplies to a Shiite school in south Lebanon is nice but I’m not sure if it can even begin to counteract the influence of Hezbollah among the students of that school. I honestly think that Hezbollah’s power in south Lebanon will probably be broken, not by trying to befriend the south Lebanese, but by internal divisions and disatisfaction with Hezbollah in Lebanon. Already we see that some Shiites that have been angered by Hezbollah are drifting to the more moderate Amal movement. Powerful organizations and leaders are generally broken, not by nice gestures, but instead by similarly powerful forces.
That is not to say that the ideas your promoting might not be worth a shot. I think they might be worth attempting. I think every friend counts. But I think their influence will be limited.
September 24th, 2006 at 3:53 pm
except WP wasn’t just used against ‘insurgents’ now was it. It was used in Falujah which had a high number of civilians. IF im not mistaken, it was american soldiers who claimed that they had seen the bodies of women and children burnt
They should have and could have left. They were given over a week to evacuate Falluja. Why didn’t they?
And just because somebody is a woman or a child doesn’t make them innocent. And even if they were innocent, it doesn’t constitute any criminal activity on the part of the US unless you or somebody else can prove they were targetted deliberately, and that there were no INSURGENTS standing next to them SHOOTING AT OR OTHERWISE ATTACKING American forces, clear.
change the definition of your enemy to ‘insurgent’ and you get carte blanche- oooh that’s goood. No I am not aware of what the Geneva convention says regarding insurgents but please do enlighten me.
Why not? Why are you even opening your fucking mouth and making claims if you don’t actually know anything about the Laws of War, clear?
Why?
In 4 or 5 commenst I haven’t seen you say a single true thing? DO you enjoy being wrong? Do you enjoy making false accusations?
why is there continued use of WP and not other incendiary devices that don’t produce toxic effects?
Another incorrect claim. White Phosphorous is a smoke munition used fro screening and signalling, and it’s been in use for that purpose since before World War I, and it will continue to be in use until somebody finds something that works better.
Finally, why was the use of WP denied by US army officials? Don’t they know what’s going on on the ground? - yeah that sounds bout right.
Because an idiot JUST LIKE YOU asked a low level STATE DEPARTMENT spokesman about use of White Phosphorous at a press conference. This had to have been deliberate, because even somebody like you knows that when you want to ask about specific combat operations you ask THE DEFENSE DEPARTMENT. Right?
are you their spokesperson by any chance?- you’re gooood
Who are you the spokeman of? “False Charges Anonymous” !?
September 24th, 2006 at 3:55 pm
except WP wasn’t just used against ‘insurgents’ now was it. It was used in Falujah which had a high number of civilians.
Ever heard of collateral damage. Nothing unusual there.
September 24th, 2006 at 4:03 pm
change the definition of your enemy to ‘insurgent’ and you get carte blanche- oooh that’s goood. No I am not aware of what the Geneva convention says regarding insurgents but please do enlighten me.
I’ll be happy to. Among other requirements, individuals who fight in a war without wearing a standardized uniform and who do not display their rank and insignia are not considered legitimate combatants in a war. This is just one of several requirements that Geneva makes of combatants - none of which are generally followed by insurgents. That being the case, insurgents are in the same category as spies during wartime: they can be summarily executed and have no specified rights under Geneva.
September 24th, 2006 at 4:14 pm
Nomad,
(this is off topic to nomad so anyone else please skip
)
I’ve been trying to answer your e-mail and it bounced back with the failure message I’ll paste at the bottom. Same thing happned when I tried to reply to an e-mail you sent a while back. I don’t know whay, do you?
As far as you being “moderated” here on SMs blog, I doubt that is the case. There seems to be an intermittent bug of some kind with this blogging software. I had to complain to SM once when I couldn’t get my comments to show up too. Not sure if he fixed it or if it just went away on it’s own? And I know Highlander has problems commenting too, she even made a blog post about not being able to comment on Sandmonkey’s blog. And I know he isn’t filtering her, because he has her on his blog roll
Anyway, here is the failure message on the e-mail (replace your address with xxxxx):
Mail Delivery Subsystem
to me
More options 9:05 am (1 minute ago)
This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification
Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently:
xxxxxxx@orange.fr
Technical details of permanent failure:
PERM_FAILURE: SMTP Error (state 9): 550 : Recipient address rejected: User unknown
September 24th, 2006 at 7:26 pm
Tommy: I know that you are right and that bigger changes are needed than the little individual efforts that we all could make. Perhaps anything that we could all do would help as an aggregate effect. By “we” I mean all of us on this forum, even though we disagree in so many respects, I believe that we do all agree that friendships among nations are worth cultivating and peace worth pursuing. I’m a teacher in a small—no, tiny, Texas town that does not even have a grocery store:) I teach elementary school and work with the at-risk children. I have decided that I will put together my little box of school supplies and will send them to Lebanon. My cose friend, Luba, is Lebanese, and she can help me get the little box where it needs to go. It is not much, just a tiny gesture, but what if we all do something tiny?
No, I am new to blogging. I don’t even know how to do italiacs!
Bec: Thanks for the information on Ryan
September 24th, 2006 at 7:50 pm
I’ll be happy to. Among other requirements, individuals who fight in a war without wearing a standardized uniform and who do not display their rank and insignia are not considered legitimate combatants in a war. This is just one of several requirements that Geneva makes of combatants - none of which are generally followed by insurgents. That being the case, insurgents are in the same category as spies during wartime: they can be summarily executed and have no specified rights under Geneva.
if so, Resistnce in France would have been only armed with spies, and yes nazies executed them !
your definition is relative, depends on which side you stand !
September 24th, 2006 at 8:04 pm
Lynne, I really like your attitude and your willingness to reach out. When I was in the Marines I saw too many times, in too many places, the kind of “gratitude” that humantiarian efforts from countries that are hostile to the sender are met with to have much hope, but perhaps if there is somebody on the other side with the same attitude you have, some good can be done
About the “shake & bake” use of White Phosphorous that Tommy mentioned, I can shed some light on that since I spent several years in a mortar platoon and that was one of our standard fire missions.
This is an “immediate suppression” fire mission. The purpose is to pin down enemy forces and prevent them from attacking in an effective manner. And also to kill as many enemy personnel as possible in the process. An immediate suppression fire mission can be called either to prep an enemy position for a close assault (offensive) or to hamper an enemy’s attack (defensive).
This is by far the most common sort of fire mission for artillery and mortars. It’s not in any way rare, nor is it in any way a new idea. It’s been standard ground combat tactics since World War I. The slang term “shake & bake” is the only thing that is new.
What it IS, is a heavy bombardment of a mixture of white phosphorous and high explosive rounds. The US uses a 50/50 mix of HE and WP for these missions, alternating between the two. 1 round HE, 1 round WP, 1 round HE, 1 round WP, etc until the fire mission is complete. As fast as the guns can fire. If the enemy is moving and not stationary it may be a “search and traverse” fire mission in which case the deflection and.or elevation of the gun is changed and the gun is re-laid between each round. That’s is to dynamically adjust the fall of the rounds. Usually done when the direction of flight of enemy trooops from the barrage can be logically predicted. Troops caught in the open with no cover will almost always run towards the nearest cover rather than lay down in the dirt and pray.
The effect of a WP/HE mix is that a huge and impenetrable cloud of dense white smoke forms on the target. Nobody can see into it, and nobody can see out of it. Any enemies in the cloud who are attempting to attack will be doing so without being able to see their own weapons, let alone what’s going on outside of the cloud.
It’s a frightening sight, and that’s probably why they started calling it “shake & bake” - not because of any kind of incendiary effect, but because of the visual appearance. Even in broad daylight, the burning phosphorous causes the whole cloud to glow. And then there are the high explosive rounds going off non-stop, which light up the cloud like a lightning strike. It’s not the white phosphorous that kills, though. It’s the high explosive fragmentary rounds. A big enough streamer of phosphorous could kill somebody and it wouldn’t be an easy death, but it’d take some really bad luck to get hit by such a streamer. They typically just fly up in the air in big slow moving gouts. They don’t fly far and they don’t fly fast.
As Raccoon pointed out, the phosphorous smoke is not “toxic” - a fire mission like I just described that was done to prep for an assault would be followed up by infantryman enterring the cloud on foor to close with and destroy the enemy while he is still realing from the bombardment, under ideal circumstances. Millions of people, including me, have walked through phosphorous clouds without any protective gear on. There isn’t ONE recorded health problem associated with exposure to white phosphorous smoke. Not one.
September 24th, 2006 at 8:11 pm
i can cut and paste too!
“First you incorrectly call it an incendiary weapon”
dude i didn’t call it an incendiary weapon- someone from the oh so great defense department did:
“Yes, it (WP)was used as an incendiary weapon against enemy combatants.” Lieutenant-Colonel Barry Venable, Dept. of Defense spokesman
I do admit that though that protocol 3 doesn’t define WP as an incedinary weapon so hands up- i was wrong. but hey, i managed to fool tommy and that’s good enough for me
“White Phosphorous does not kill due to toxicity,”
really and where does it say that? Just because it’s not classed by some convention that it is a chemical weapon doesn’t mean that it doesn’t kill people by its toxic properties. However, please do cite your sources that it does not kill by toxicity.
“They should have and could have left. They were given over a week to evacuate Falluja. Why didn’t they?”
leave their homes and go where exactly Craig- to the refugee camps set up for them next door or to the next village to wait for american troops to kill them there instead.
“do you enjoy being wrong?”
no not really. Well that question would only really be justified if after correcting someone they persisted in doing the error, no?
“why is there continued use of WP and not other incendiary devices that don’t produce toxic effects?”
was actually a question to tommy and not a claim- read the question, why don’t you
also craig- anger management dude- this is only a comments section on a blog- hardly world politics. you scared tommy off from replying. thanks tommy for telling me about the geneva convention- i am sure i will get round to reading it
September 24th, 2006 at 8:22 pm
I do admit that though that protocol 3 doesn’t define WP as an incedinary weapon so hands up- i was wrong. but hey, i managed to fool tommy and that’s good enough for me
I answered your question arbitrarily. I know for a fact that no Geneva-related protocols apply to unlawful combatants.
I had no particular idea what this one specifically stated, just that those particular set of statutes are related to Geneva and thus do not have any applicability to unlawful combatants, regardless of what they state.
September 24th, 2006 at 8:24 pm
#97, Craig
thanks for caring, I confess, you are a good man, I’ll just forget your discourses ! (some times !)
I guess, I’ll have to be patient, till my connections problems are over,
anyway, I’ll remain a trouble maker till I am really banned !
September 24th, 2006 at 8:25 pm
“White Phosphorous does not kill due to toxicity,”
To clarify this point. White phosphorus doesn’t kill by mere ingestion (you would be burned if you tried to injest it) or nearby exposure. However, phosphorus burns can leach phosphorus into the body. Phosphorus can be picked up by bodily tissues and be distributed to major organs in the human body - especially the heart and liver. So phosphorus burns can have some secondary toxicity.
September 24th, 2006 at 8:32 pm
i can cut and paste too!
You think I’m copy-pasting? With all these typos!? I need to steal my opinions from better sources
“White Phosphorous does not kill due to toxicity,”
really and where does it say that? Just because it’s not classed by some convention that it is a chemical weapon doesn’t mean that it doesn’t kill people by its toxic properties. However, please do cite your sources that it does not kill by toxicity.
Ok. I hereby cite my continued existance on this earth as a source. I was first exposed to mass quantities of white phosphoros smoke over 20 years ago. No ill effects here, man
Thanks for the concern though!
September 24th, 2006 at 8:35 pm
“why is there continued use of WP and not other incendiary devices that don’t produce toxic effects?”
White phosphorus is ideally suited for dense smokescreen and incendiary purposes. There simply aren’t that many substitutes available. Red phosphorus can be used for smokescreens but red phosophorus is just an allotropic variant of the same element. Red P doesn’t burn like white P and so cannot be used for incendiary purposes - at least not in its raw state. If you injest red phosophorus you will suffer the same toxicity as if you suffered white phosphorus. There is no real advantage. Besides, most red phosphorus is made industrially by processing white phosphorus.
To clarify my above remark about the toxicity of phosphorus: the body is well suited to utilizing phosphorus taken in orally. It is an essentially nutrient, in fact. (Most people, in salt-laden western society could actually use more phosophorus in their diets.) The small amounts you might pick up in a smokescreen would almost certainly be harmless. However, injecting significant quantities of phosphorus salts into the body (such as is done during lethal injection executions) can be dangerous as you are circumventing critical areas of the body that process phosphorus into a form safe and utilizable by humans.
September 24th, 2006 at 8:36 pm
I’m bowing out of this one today, I’m tired guys. I can barely type coherently. Have a good one.
September 24th, 2006 at 8:40 pm
tommy your street cred is perfectly intact dude, no explanations need be given.
September 24th, 2006 at 8:54 pm
Oops! That is a sign of how tired I am. I confused phosphorus with potassium. They use potassium salts in execution - the potassium-to-salt ratio is important in the human diet. Forget what I said.
Good night!
September 24th, 2006 at 9:04 pm
“White Phosphorous does not kill due to toxicity,”
Below is the toxicological profile which i haven’t had time to read surprisingly at 138 pages. But from a skim read, one study by Ward, 1928 indicates that two workers who died from WP could have been due to its toxic effects- no i don’t know the exposure time.They can’t differentiate the mode of action of WP such as in the Ward, 1928 study where two women died, and they couldn’t decide whether it was inhalation or absorption. Also if you read on it says that the toxicokinetics of WP are unknown. If i had the time, im sure i can kick your ass over this one craig but i won’t because well you’re quite scary. At one point i did almost see your fist coming at me from the screen.
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp103-c2.pdf WP toxicological profile by the agent for toxic substances and disease registry.
however, i am happy to be able to say that you cannot categorically say that WP does not kill by toxic effect because according to that report. so unless you find a source other than yourself- remember 3 results in any experiment! then i win this one, no? I am glad to hear that you walked through clouds of noxious gas and are fit and well though.
One last thing, you keep thinking i’m a man- do you enjoy being wrong?? ehy ehy , you wanna fight ehy ehy. Ahem, i’m not a man- i don’t know quite how to take that.
September 24th, 2006 at 9:13 pm
thankyou for answering the question tommy and your correction and good night. Have you been driving for 7 hours by any chance?
g’nite folks, i gotta sign out too
September 24th, 2006 at 9:53 pm
clear,
craig but i won’t because well you’re quite scary. At one point i did almost see your fist coming at me from the screen.
Well, that’s your own imagination then, because I haven’t even been angry during the course of this discussion. Did I not use enough smiley faces for you?
In regards to your comment about what an officer in the pentagon said, you have to understand something about the US military. There are two different types of people in the military. Leaf-eaters and meat-eaters. Most of the people who work at the pentagon are pretty much like the people who work at Microsoft or at any other big company in the world. They just wear uniforms. You ask them questions about what the meat-eaters are up to and you get the kind of nonsense that gentleman said. And you can’t ask the carnivores, because… well… they try to keep the scary monsters as far away from normal human beings as they can. Perhaps with good reason, based on your reaction to me. I just told you the truth. If you don’t like it, go talk to the desk jockeys and hear what they have to say, instead. Fine by me. At least they won’t scare you. Wouldn’t want that.
however, i am happy to be able to say that you cannot categorically say that WP does not kill by toxic effect because according to that report. so unless you find a source other than yourself- remember 3 results in any experiment! then i win this one, no? I am glad to hear that you walked through clouds of noxious gas and are fit and well though.
No, you lose this one, because as I’ve laready stated, there are millions of people who have walked through phosphorous smoke clouds, and there isn’t a single reported case of phosphorous induced adverse health effects. I am but one of the many millions.
Put that up against your study that indicates 3 people MAY have died from ingesting phosphorous in 1928, and what do you get?
There is no basis for a claim that white phosphorous is can be considered a chemical weapon. People *have* died as a result of exposure to tear gas… are the police who use tear gas to disperse rioting crowds guilty of using a banned weapon of mass destruction? This would be a much easier case to make than the claim about WP (which is absurd on it’s face) but do as you please. There isn’t a country on this earth that has gone to war in the last 100 years that hasn’t used white phosphorous, so you’ve got your work cut out for you.
One last thing, you keep thinking i’m a man- do you enjoy being wrong??
My bad, clear, I guess you got me on this one. I never saw you state one way or the other what your sex was, and your name is no indication of that either. What should I call people under these circumstances? It?
ehy ehy , you wanna fight ehy ehy. Ahem, i’m not a man- i don’t know quite how to take that.
No idea what you’re driving at here, did I say something that lead you to believe I wanted to fight you or something? I try to speak to women in the same way I’d speak to a man on these kinds of issues. You would prefer I was more of a gentleman? Should I condescend to you now that i know you are female? OK, OK, I admit I probably wouldn’t have been as aggressive in my tone if I knew you were a woman. Happy now?
Tommy, lead is pretty toxic to human physiology last I checked too. I suppose we should start making bullets out of steel, eh? Well, it’s only 3 PM here so I’m not going to bed yet, but g’night to you two
September 24th, 2006 at 10:18 pm
clear, I knew you were a gal!
Lynne, it’s great to have you here!
Here’s a helpful site for the HTML stuff: Davesite. Study this and you’ll become a real expert blogger.
Basically, though, these thingies are what do it all. If you want italics around the word, “no,” you would type no
All with no spaces, though! (If I did it the correct way, the tag markers would disappear and all you would see would be no.) The last “/” is vitally important, or else you’ll make everyone’s post become italicized. I’m sure you’ve seen that situation! Easy to forget - I’ve done it myself.
(”b” for bold)
And once you get really fancy, here’s how you can embed links:
type a name or title or “here” (close). There are no spaces in any of this EXCEPT for between the first “a” and “href”
Hope this comes out right. Good luck!
September 24th, 2006 at 10:24 pm
Lynne, wow, did I learn something new! The spaces don’t matter at all!
This “” is what I was referring to. Closed by “”
(Does that work?)
Maybe you’d better stick to Davesite! Sorry about that!
September 24th, 2006 at 10:25 pm
Aargh! It’s the two symbols above the comma and the period!!!
September 24th, 2006 at 10:46 pm
Bec: Thanks for the help! I’ll check out Davesite.
Craig: Thanks for the information on the weapons! Sad that we have to use weapons or even think about using them, but as long as other people use them against us or each other, we are forced in to thinking about them–and using them in defense. Unfortunately.
Signing off for today, best regards to all, lynne
September 24th, 2006 at 10:56 pm
LOL
Clear - the interesting bit here is your continued attempt to prove a slanderous conspiracy theory in the face of overwhelming evidence. A conspiracy theory that only helps the people that’d have you dead or enslaved.
What is it that pushes you to try and harm the people who’re protecting you and to help the people trying to kill you? Are you suicidal? Or… what?
Craig - mortar platoon ? 188mm? Never heard of mortar platoons before. Which war was it in?
September 24th, 2006 at 11:14 pm
Craig -
81mm, that is.
Bleah. Stoned Raccoon
September 24th, 2006 at 11:39 pm
Craig - mortar platoon ? 188mm? Never heard of mortar platoons before. Which war was it in?
Yep, 81’s.
Every Infantry Batallion in the US Marines has a Weapons Company, 3 Rifle Companies, and a Headquarters and Services Company.
Snpers, Intel and all the fancy shit are in the H&S company.
Rifle Company’s have rifles, light/medium machine guns, 60mm mortars, anti-tank rockets, greande launchers and such
Weapons Companies have the heavy weapons. 50 Caliber Macine guns (tripod mounted or vehicle mounted), Javelin ATGMs (was Dragons when Iwas in), Automatic Grenade Launchers (didn’t have those in my day) and 81mm Mortars. 1 platoon of each.
So, short story long, every infantry batallion in the USMC has an 81mm Mortar Platoon. Now, when I was in, and going all the way back to probably the late 19th century. Some of the other toys have changed but the 81s have always been an integral part of any Marine Infantry Batallion.
September 24th, 2006 at 11:54 pm
# Pepper Greg Says:
September 23rd, 2006 at 4:46 pm
Wow, the irony is coming from Christians, who practive one of the most tollerant religions in the world when it comes to Homosexuality!
George Bush’s flavor of Christianity as per Leviticus 18:22 clearly states that homosexuality is an abomination punishable by death!
Not all of us are christians. Some of us are eeeeevvvvviiiiiilllllll zionists. Jooooooooos too.
Punishment for homosexuality? That they should enjoy the same legal crap we non-homosexuals get. Punishable by death? Maybe in an out of control and insane theocracy, but not here.
PG, if you kill someone here, you will be held to account. In a fair number of states in the US, murder can be a capital crime, you can have your life legally taken from you in a specific set of circumstances.
Still think Muslims are the only barbarians? Consider this:
No, I think that there are barbarians of every religion. I have had to deal with overbearing and overzealous christians, wild islamists, an mad cultists in my life. They all have a right to speak their mind. I am thankful that I have as much right to ignore their insane rantings, and live my life in relative peace. That is until one of these groups does something incredibly stupid.
1. Leviticus 25:44 states that one may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations.
Nice. So we should buy some Canadians or some Mexicans?
2. You can sell you daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7.
She is actually quite pissed that we give her chores to do every day. Builds character, you know. Slavery? Well if you ask her, it probably is. If you are like me, and reflecting upon your own childhood of 35+ years ago, realizing that your parents taught you the same lessons in the same way, in a way you are now thankful for … you might know a little better than they do.
3. A man is not allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanness - Lev.15:19-24.
Define “contact”. If a women is “unclean” during this time, there are modern aides and contrivences that will do a reasonable job of making this time sanitary, and clean.
Some contact during this time is, well, nasty.
4. Christianity permits you to burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, as it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9.
I have to remember this for the next time I am near an altar, with a bull, and no PETA people are around.
Seriously, you can get your ass handed to you these days for being cruel to animals. You will go to jail, at least here in the US.
5. Exodus 35:2. clearly states he who works on the Sabath should be put to death.
Yes, makes sense. I am working myself to death. Worst form of death. Shabbat is a good idea, and many more of us need to take advantage of it to take a break from what we do, to remind our selves of why we do it.
6. Eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev.11:10.
Depends upon the recipe. Some of them are really crappy and are abominations.
Did you ever get the sense reading this book, or others derived from it, that there isn’t really a well defined reason for this? That there may in fact be some arbitraryness in there? That one of the big-important people must have had a multi-color yawn, hugged the toilet bowl, or whatever passed for one, and decreed that shellfish are an abomination … ?
I see lots of this spiteful stuff in religions evolved from others, or borrowing others traditions when it is obvious that the founder didn’t get his/her way.
7. Lev.21:20 states that one may not approach the altar of God if one have a defect in their sight.
Yeah, you could get hurt if you cant see the nice shiny spear pointed at you. This is good advice …
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die?
Old age?
9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
Yeah, though you can always wash after the game to regain your cleanliness. I would advise such a thing regardless of pig or no pig.
10. Violating Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, and wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend), cursing and blaspheming are all punishable by getting the whole town together to the offenders according to Lev.24:10-16.
Mixing Calvin Klein and Armani is a mortal sin. I agree.
11. As for people who sleep with their in-laws, the should be burned to death at a private family affair (Lev.20:14).
I would prefer castration mixed in there, but this doesn’t work that well for women. And its illegal.
Now shall I cite some highlights from Judaism, or have you heard them all before?
Most of the christian ones were derived from the ones in Judaism. Remember that christianity started off as a splinter sect of judaism, with a priest who insisted on something the jewish leadership could not support. The rest, as they say, is history.
Some of the Islamic laws appear to be quite similar to those in christianity. Not all of them. Christianity is supposed to be about love and peace and all that. While christians claim it has always been this way, my relatives fleeing Europe over the last 100 years may have a somewhat different view of the application of christian “love”.
The major difference of these, which seems to escape you is that there are no christian or jewish theocracies ruling countries on this planet that take the literal word of their holy book as their only law. That means that these laws are not absolute, are not involiable. Yes, there are a few nutjobs in Christianity and Judaism who believe in “the literal word”. Luckily they have no political power or control. The christians demonstrated quite clearly before the 1700’s why they should never have political power coupled with their religious authority. Such mixtures were uniformly bad new for their citizens and even worse for any minority not of the same religious sect held by the powerful religious-political rulers.
Now lets turn to Islam. Sharia is interpreted to be the involiable law of the umma, unchangable, not subject to interpretation. Where sharia takes seed and flourishes, society slips backwards. The taliban were the poster-boys for sharia. Look how `advanced’ they were.
Let me ask you PG, do you want to live under Sharia? Or under a code of laws which respect you as an individual, respects your inalienable rights, and provides protection for you against those who may wish to do evil to you? Including in that list, possibly your own government?
September 25th, 2006 at 12:15 am
Note that the PG response was with tongue firmly planted in cheek, for the humor impaired.
September 25th, 2006 at 1:57 am
Nomad,
I guess, I’ll have to be patient, till my connections problems are over
It’s so strange. I noticed it this time. Your comment #97 wasn’t teher earlier but now it is! Must be very frustrating! Hope you get it settled soon, I always like your input even when I totally disagree with what you say
September 25th, 2006 at 2:02 am
Kranky, thank you for taking the time to respond to Pepper and Gut Yontev (shannah tova) to you. The great thing about Judaism is that it has many different branches. There is Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, Reconstructionist, Secular, Traditional, Modern Orthodox and more. And these different branches represent the different interpretations of our Laws. Judaism, unlike some other religions, is changeable and there is a place for everyone (gay, straight, atheist, intermarried). What you believe and how you want to live your Jewish life would determine which niche you would fit in to.
September 25th, 2006 at 3:10 am
Gut Yountuv to you as well Karen.
September 25th, 2006 at 4:56 am
Shana Tova, y’all.
I wonder when the last death penalty for violating the sabbath was executed? I’d be willing to bet it predated Islam.
The Orthodox Jews in my neighborhood don’t seem to get too riled up when I get in my car Saturday morning. Instead, they wave hello.
OT, the people who think “Laws of War” is NOT an oxymoron, have obviously never been to the prom dress sale at Filene’s Basement. Frenzied high school seniors, beautful gowns, unbeatable prices, no fitting rooms.
September 25th, 2006 at 6:47 am
Is Emile Lahoud really gay?
September 25th, 2006 at 6:56 am
#126 Craig ,
Recognize it : you want yo u to start a women collection,
fucking Casanova
September 25th, 2006 at 7:08 am
nomad Says: #81
September 24th, 2006 at 6:10 am
…”What Would War Look Like?
A flurry of military maneuvers in the Middle East increases speculation that conflict with Iran is no longer quite so unthinkable. Here’s how the U.S. would fight such a war–and the huge price it would have to pay to win it
By MICHAEL DUFFY
Posted Sunday, Sep. 17, 2006
The first message was routine enough: a “Prepare to Deploy” order sent through naval communications channels to a submarine, an Aegis-class cruiser, two minesweepers and two mine hunters. The orders didn’t actually command the ships out of port; they just said to be ready to move by Oct. 1. But inside the Navy those messages generated more buzz than usual last week when a second request, from the Chief of Naval Operations (CNO), asked for fresh eyes on long-standing U.S. plans to blockade two Iranian oil ports on the Persian Gulf. The CNO had asked for a rundown on how a blockade of those strategic targets might work. When he didn’t like the analysis he received, he ordered his troops to work the lash up once again.
What’s going on? The two orders offered tantalizing clues. There are only a few places in the world where minesweepers top the list of U.S. naval requirements. And every sailor, petroleum engineer and hedge-fund manager knows the name of the most important: the Strait of Hormuz, the 20-mile-wide bottleneck in the Persian Gulf through which roughly 40% of the world’s oil needs to pass each day. Coupled with the CNO’s request for a blockade review, a deployment of minesweepers to the west coast of Iran would seem to suggest that a much discussed–but until now largely theoretical–prospect has become real: that the U.S. may be preparing for war with Iran.
No one knows whether–let alone when–a military confrontation with Tehran will come to pass. The fact that admirals are reviewing plans for blockades is hardly proof of their intentions. The U.S. military routinely makes plans for scores of scenarios, the vast majority of which will never be put into practice. “Planners always plan,” says a Pentagon official. Asked about the orders, a second official said only that the Navy is stepping up its “listening and learning” in the Persian Gulf but nothing more–a prudent step, he added, after Iran tested surface-to-ship missiles there in August during a two-week military exercise. And yet from the State Department to the White House to the highest reaches of the military command, there is a growing sense that a showdown with Iran–over its suspected quest for nuclear weapons, its threats against Israel and its bid for dominance of the world’s richest oil region–may be impossible to avoid. The chief of the U.S. Central Command (Centcom), General John Abizaid, has called a commanders conference for later this month in the Persian Gulf–sessions he holds at least quarterly–and Iran is on the agenda…”
http://time-proxy.yaga.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1535817,00%20.html
in case, I give you some more to debate,
happy ramadan you said …
September 25th, 2006 at 10:42 am
racoon joins in the fun
“slanderous conspiracy theory in the face of overwhelming evidence”
if it is a slanderous conspiracy theory then why did the US military deny using WP and then when pushed by testimonies from soldiers change their story? The excuse that noone knows whats going on in the military is just pathetic.I haven’t heard that this ’slanderous conspiracy theory’ has been withdrawn, but do inform me if you too have been hangin out with the top meat eaters of the food chain and they gave you tit bits from the top table.
Craig- Millions of you walked through it but it didn’t kill you- from that you could infer that because you walked throught it and it didn’t kill you or harm you that WP has no effect on humans at all…doesn’t work now does it. There is no proof that WP doesn’t act via toxic qualities otherwise toxicologists wouldn’t be arguing for its redefinition. regarding the tear gas- there are lots of substances that can harm by a chemical reaction but just because they use that mode does not mean that they are necessarily lethal.
WP was used against civilians and it shouldn’t have been, well a lot of things have been done to iraqi civilians and they shouldn’t have been but that’s for another day ehy
“A conspiracy theory that only helps the people that’d have you dead or enslaved.”
really that would be the civilians in falujah who got wiped out by the american military. right, and who’s saving me from these horrid people. Oh, it’s the american liberators ofcourse who don’t have any conspiracy theories about weapons of mass destruction.
“You would prefer I was more of a gentleman? Should I condescend to you now that i know you are female? ”
you don’t have a lot of female company do you
One last thing, you keep thinking i’m a man- do you enjoy being wrong??ehy ehy , you wanna fight ehy ehy-
was actually a parody- i wasn’t being serious
“it must be your imagination”
my bad, i guess i come from a different world, where people don’t feel the need to use expletives in every sentence to express themselves.
September 25th, 2006 at 12:21 pm
Clear - all your questions have been answered. All your slanderous allegations were disproved. Since you appear to simply ignore everything that counters your own version of reality (in which USA can do no right and its enemies can do no wrong), I must conclude that you are either mentally challenged or bigoted. Since you write with clarity, I am forced to conclude the latter.
You, dear, are a bigot. Good luck with that. Try listening to people who disagree with you sometimes, especially on a subject they know a whole lot more than you - it can be an enlightening experience.
Craig -
OK, I see. IDF configuration is slightly different, but goes along the same lines. I never fought on batallion level, though, except for drills (thank God for that). In the low-intensity conflicts we have now, it’s mostly squad-level 51mm - it’s good for urban environment and very light. When we needed cover or whatever in Lebanon we’d call arty in
September 25th, 2006 at 3:06 pm
“Since you appear to simply ignore everything that counters your own version of reality (in which USA can do no right and its enemies can do no wrong).”
racoon, you’re so anti anything outside your america zone, that anyone who disagrees with you or your country’s trigger happy tactics must be a flag burning, sword yielding american hater.. hmm you’re beginning to sound just like the people you hate.
” Try listening to people who disagree with you sometimes”
take craig’s advice and try reading the posts before you make accusations.
” all your questions have been answered”
you mean sidestepped and they’re not MY questions- do a quick google search and you’ll find a lot of people in a lot of countries are asking the same things.
what are the meat eaters doing on their computers all day- why aren’t you throwing your weight about on the battle field? oops better not go there, in case you come and raid my country for oil too, oops i mean bring democracy.
It is interesting that your posts have been wholly personal attacks instead of reasoned arguments.
September 25th, 2006 at 4:50 pm
Clear -
You have asked questions - or, to be more specific, made slanderous allegations. These have been answered and/or refuted, not sidestepped.
I am not American. I’ve never even been to the USA.
I threw my weight around battlefields until I got FUBAR. Hopefully medicine will manage to fix my fried nerves and then I’ll come back to the battlefield. In the meanwhile I do what I can.
And yes, there are many people who hate USA/Israel/UK/West out there. Most of them are inventing lies in an attempt to destroy that which they hate. It is good to know that you openly identify yourself with these people - Al-Qaeda, Hizballah, Hamas, Hizb ut-Tahrir, Islamic Jihad…
“Tell me who your friends are and I’ll tell you who you are”.
September 25th, 2006 at 4:52 pm
PS
Since you ignore reasoned arguments, I reckon I can go ad hominem
September 25th, 2006 at 7:18 pm
Well I am sorry to hear that raccoon- i hope that you are able to recover soon.
“It is good to know that you openly identify yourself with these people - Al-Qaeda, Hizballah, Hamas, Hizb ut-Tahrir, Islamic Jihad…”
that’s great you can reel off so many but it’s funny how far off the mark you are.
“And yes, there are many people who hate USA/Israel/UK/West out there. Most of them are inventing lies ”
I don’t understand why you keep saying that but i’ll just keep repeating the same thing in response. It was actually american soldiers who said that they had used WP in fallujah not me! Also US/Uk war crimes were first recorded in the Western press. Do they hate themselves then? Sheesh, even one british daily tried to fake photos of prisoner abuse by british soldiers.
September 25th, 2006 at 10:14 pm
Clear -
Weren’t you reading the replies? Of course they were using WP. Every army uses WP, it’s perfectly legal and it’s an excellent smoke screen. It’s also bloody useless as a “chemical weapon” - it would be more effective to use rat poison than WP to kill people, for Gods’ sake.
“Also US/Uk war crimes were first recorded in the Western press. Do they hate themselves then?”
Absolutely and utterly. Overwhelming majority of the Western press is rabidly anti-West and pro-anybody-who’s-against-the-West. They fake photos all the time, they fake events, they put misleading headlines, they invent lies and do anything they can to destroy the system which enables them to exist. I have no idea why they are so suicidal, but you humans are a very peculiar breed.
Most of their lies, though, originate from the organizations I have listed and many more. See MEMRI for much more and Second Draft for in-depth analysis of some specific cases.
September 26th, 2006 at 6:32 pm
How do you get the italics to stop?
There is a whole debate over the Western press and faked photos in the recent Israel v. Hezbollah fuss. There is an extensive discussion at that notorious Islamophobe site: http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/
And a thorough demolition job at http://www.zombietime.com/
Clearly a lot of people in the Western media do hate the West and hate Israel even more. Of course the real question is whether or not AP actually employed a member of the Iraqi “resistance” who was physically present when they murdered people.
September 26th, 2006 at 9:34 pm
HeiGou,
Close the italics tag. I can’t write the tag without having to actually put in all sorts of funky /uxxx type unicode characters. You use ”. No spaces in-between.
September 26th, 2006 at 9:40 pm
Oops! See I can’t even write it without it all disappearing! All the stuff I put in between the tags just disappearing completely. Ug. Let me dig out the ANSI/Unicode characters and see if I can manually input it that way:
</i>
September 26th, 2006 at 9:43 pm
Damn it. I haven’t done this in forever. I cannot even recall exactly how to do it and I don’t know if it will even display write in this comment system.
Close the tag by writing the ‘less than’ sign and then a backslach (’/') and then an ‘i’ and then a ‘greater than’ sign. No spaces in-between.
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