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Thursday, 19 Oct 2006
*UPDATED*
I received this article of news in my e-mail, and it's detailing the strange tale of Bahaa El Din Al Akkad, a 57 year old egyptian, ex-muslim sheikh who converted to christianity more than a year ago, and was therefore arrested by State Security and thrown in Jail. No real charges, except "Blasphemy against Islam", which is a bullshit charge anyway as any of you may imagine.
At first I was skeptic about the story, considering that the source isn't exactly credible or unbiased. However, 2 things made me reconsider: 1) The redicilous amount of detailed information that the report included, and 2) While not every christian convert is likely to be arested and thrown in jail, it would make sense for State Secuirty to arrest this guy: He used to be in Tabligh and Daawa (which is the movemnet to spread the word of Islam and convert people) and he used to preach in a Mosque. If word of his conversion came out, it could cause a huge ruckus in Egypt and inflame lots of different people. Hell, he would get killed, and that would spark the debate on why muslims can't convert to christianity to begin with, the christians would get up in arms, the islamists would one-up them in violence and voila, you get yourself a nice case of secterian strife and conflict. So, instead of addressing the situation or try to remedy the problem, SSI decided to employ their usually quick and dirty solution and jail that guy. Silencing him would be far easier and less work for them to actually confront this very real issue.
But still, this didn't mean that the story is true. So I decided to check it for myself.
After contacating a couple of people who are involved in such cases in terms of human rights, the word came back that this story is actually true, that they have known about it for a while now, and have been in contact with this guy's lawyer and plan on coming out to the public with it soon enough, with their own statements. So I figured I would tell you guys first. This is for real. The guy got arrested for converting to christinaity and have been rotting in prison for the past 18 months for it. I don't think I need to tell you how much of a violation to his rights this is, but then again, this is Egypt, and we really have no rights to speak of.
But yeah, go read his story and spread the word, and maybe we can create enough pressure on them to get this guy out.
Update:
I got his pictures, here is how he looks like:
October 19th, 2006 at 1:39 pm
This is the usual in Egypt and is supported by all kind of authorities …
Fantomass
October 19th, 2006 at 1:44 pm
And on the other hands minors and sometimes children are being allowed and even welcomed to convert to Islam which is clearly against the law.
October 19th, 2006 at 2:22 pm
Was he arrested for converting to Christianity or for leaving Islam?
October 19th, 2006 at 2:26 pm
No compulsion in religion?
October 19th, 2006 at 2:32 pm
Thanks for the exposure, sandmonkey. We’ll pray for him
October 19th, 2006 at 2:47 pm
What would be the attitude towards “converting” to atheism I wonder?
October 19th, 2006 at 3:24 pm
It’s sounds like time for the Islamic Inquisition in Egypt…that would bring it up to the European fifteenth century. Is this progress?
October 19th, 2006 at 3:46 pm
Yea, kinzi, let’s all pray for him! And while we’re at it, we might as well pray for peace in Middle East. And, hey, why not pray that American government starts hating war and loving pretty pink flowers? I mean, if we pray real hard, on our knees, and, like, try our very best, pray like we’ve never prayed before, give our 100 % to the prayer, then surely, without a sliver of a slightest doubt, this guy will be freed, peace and prosperity will spread the world over, Americans get rid of xenophobic elements in their top administration, cure for cancer magically appears, and I win the lottery. Those who are atheists can, instead of praying, wish for these things real hard, close their eyes and wish ’till they get an earbleed. That should do it. Now, people, get on with it.
October 19th, 2006 at 4:02 pm
Evon, I don’t pray and I, too, get annoyed by people who say “the doctors killed’im” when someone dies and “St Someoneorother saved him” when someone lives and I still do not see the reason for such animosity against Kinzi. It’s not as if s/he is in a position to be of real help and is wasting time and breath. Expressing a wish for a stop to this violation of human rights by praying is not a bad thing in any case.
October 19th, 2006 at 4:08 pm
good lord, they sent him to a high security prison where the majority of inmates are Egyptian Islamists!
I’ve googled the mail-adis of the Prime Minister and the Minister of Justice:
Prime Minister Dr. Ahmed Mahmoud Mohammed Nazif
Mail: primemin@idsc.gov.eg
Minister of Justice:
Counselor/ Mamdoh Mohie E-din Marie
Mail: mojeb@idsc.gov.eg
Can any of the English- and Arab-mothertongue speakers here do me a big favour and draft a letter to them that we can all copy? If ever you need a German translation I will recompensate your efforts
It should include:
- Salutation: Dear (Prime-)Minister
- statement who we are (I am a xx citizen)
- that we are deeply concerned about the situation of Bahaa el-Din Ahmed Hussein el-Akkad
- we’ve learned from (not SM) http://www.persecution.org that the 57-year-old is being kept in prison for 18 months now.
- we are aware that he is Christian and was trasfered to a prison where the majority of inmates are Islamists and this fact puts him in a dangerous situation.
- his attorney says he didn’t receive any response from a petition he filed in more than a month ago.
- we call for the immediate and unconditional release of El-Akkad as a
prisoner of conscience, jailed solely for the legitimate and peaceful
expression of his beliefs
———————
Call me cold-blooded, but I think the argument of him being transfered into a prison filled with Islamists will bring the most pressure upon them. More than his health situation which can always be disputed.
October 19th, 2006 at 4:27 pm
Big deal. Jesus said people would be thrown in prisons, beaten, and persecuted because they believe in Him. This is just par for the course. But I’m glad to know that this former muslim sensed that something was missing and wanted to know God in a more personal level. That’s when his hardship began.
—-
But he became disillusioned, and five years ago the sheikh said he began to pray that he could somehow know God personally.
October 19th, 2006 at 4:28 pm
Big deal. Jesus said people would be thrown in prisons, beaten, and persecuted because they believe in Him. This is just par for the course. But I’m glad to know that this former muslim sensed that something was missing and wanted to know God in a more personal level. That’s when his hardship began.
———
But he became disillusioned, and five years ago the sheikh said he began to pray that he could somehow know God personally.
October 19th, 2006 at 4:47 pm
Evon, my comment must have struck a nerve. If it means anything to you, I usually pray for most of the things you listed as well already! Except the pretty pink flowers. I don’t squeeze my eyes shut, they are normally filled with tears.
Why do I say pray? A man like a son-in-law was just released from prison in another such country on the same charge. We saw amazing, specific answers to prayer, so it gives me hope.
Thanks Olive Picker.
October 19th, 2006 at 4:56 pm
This is so wrong but hey I’m not surprised… Let’s hope he gets released. Sigh!
October 19th, 2006 at 5:06 pm
Meanwhile in Paris, capital of Eurabia:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061019/wl_nm/france_mideast_libel_dc
How long until people will be jailed in Eurabia for insulting Islam?
Oh, wait, that’s yesteryear’s snow, innit? Lucky for Oriana Fallaci that she died before they convicted her.
Let’s rephrase that:
How long until people will be jailed in Eurabia for converting from Islam to anything else?
I give it 3 to 5 years, top. 10 until it’s a capital crime. 20 until there are no free non-Muslims in Eurabia.
October 19th, 2006 at 5:24 pm
This is an ugly event.
This is an amazing website…
I was always a pretty liberal open-minded Jew. OVer the years I have gradually steered more to the Right…but pretty much an independent thinker.
One thing I always used to argue with both my way Right and way Left pals is about the Muslim Left or Center. I have always said that human nature demands such elements exist…but those of us from places like the USA or Israel…were only very rarely exposed to it…both through media AND personal contact.
This year I discovered blogs like this one and several others. My reaction has been a mix of some surprise…but more of a “I knew it had to be”.
Of course I realize there are minimal rights of free expression in almost all Muslim countries…but little by little…y’all are reaching folks like me…and it opens this little glimmer of hope that TRUTH, in all its painful and unclear complexity, can start be shared.
I fear for Egypt…somebody here spoke about the irony of your dictator saving you from war…but it is true…Egypt could easily become the next Iran in my opinon..and as bad as it is today…Cariostan would be an utter nightmare and bring horrific suffering to the entire region.
As for this man? Prayers, petitions whatever…but I have already started sending this message around the world. That is the beginning of saving him.
October 19th, 2006 at 5:25 pm
Oh God what an aweful story!
It’s hard to believe. My soul cries out for this poor fellow and the others that are like him that are wallowing away in dank prisons in Egypt for their convictions. And my anger and frustration continue to rise at the shithole that Egypt has become.
How brave is this man? And how shameful is our filthy government and their SSI/Gestapo? I hope you can affect change SM.
He has my prayers.
October 19th, 2006 at 5:27 pm
kinzi, maybe it struck a nerve, maybe it struck something else entirely. As you can see from your own post, you were not describing merely personal actions you were about to take. You say “We’ll pray for him”, and without precise indication of the reference of the pronoun, you’re putting words into other people’s mouths or keyboards and giving the impression of puppeteering them according to your wishes.
I’m quite sure there is a distinct possibility that it is only innocent gullibility on your part, but in that case it is almost my duty to point out the manipulative effort inherent in your statement. This might be invisible to you yourself, or perhaps interwoven into your personal rhetoric, in which case it might be difficult to see and feel how the phrase is easily interpreted as an attempt at fabricating the mind-set of the audience.
Including the reader, with first person plural, in the act of making a reverent petition to God, god or gods, presupposes that others shall do the way you say they do and attempts to predetermine the thoughts of others. And that, my friend, is how the masses are brainwashed into accepting spins as truths – the scale may be different, but the resulting effect is the same in a fractal way. It starts small, but these things have the tendency of accumulating; sometimes we need to be reminded of the deceitful power of harmless-looking words.
And I am thankful that, in your personal prayers, you have included my winning the lottery in the list of worthy causes. It will up my chances from zero to zero plus one prayer. Maybe I need to clear some space for all the digits in my bank account. Perhaps by going on a mad shopping spree, bying vowels left, right and centre.
I’m quite glad for you that you get relief from pressure by praying. That is very nice, and I can only wish you happy and successful praying (do the lottery-bit for me extra hard, and I’ll return the favour by thinking positive thoughts for you and your loved ones, promise).
October 19th, 2006 at 5:49 pm
UNtil ISlam worldwide takes action to stop the evil ones they quietly support, Islam in my opinion is areligion of evil and from the fucking devil.
UNtil Islam modernizes and stops blaking everyone esle for their own self inflicted ills and stopps supporting terrorism I support the abject overthrow of every islamic govt and madrassa and everything islam
Islam as exists in the 21st century is evil and needs to be eliminated.
Either moslems that are for peace take action or the rest of the world needs to shut islam down
There will NEVER be a worldwide caliphate, I say if the islamist love death so much then lets make them happy
October 19th, 2006 at 5:52 pm
PH woke up in an awfully bad mood today.
October 19th, 2006 at 6:03 pm
“UNtil ISlam worldwide takes action”
Mmmm, a religion can’t take action. Only the practitioners of a religion can take action.
You need some Xanax and Prozac pills. They help chill down the Islamophobia. Thank God the West invented such pills huh?
October 19th, 2006 at 6:09 pm
What if he had converted to Judaism instead of Christianity? Could he have expected the same generously protective treatment?
October 19th, 2006 at 6:53 pm
Peace to all,
Islam and Christianity, which one is the truth? Please visit–> http://thejourney2islam-team.blogspot.com/
October 19th, 2006 at 7:04 pm
Evon, “we” was my family, what you wrote hasn’t ever entered my mind! There is a lot of intent imputed there for a simple sentence.
I also missed the lottery request, but you caught me there. I’m not going to pray that for you, as it seems many lottery winners end up bankrupt and worse off. But, I will pray that Jesus reaches in and blesses you in the area you are most hungry for goodness. I’ll pray the same for Bahaa Al Akkad, and we’ll compare notes in six months. How’s that?
October 19th, 2006 at 7:19 pm
Way to go, number 23, publishing a link to a hate site in a discussion about a man being persecuted for following his own conscience
Drima, no Xanax recomendation for that guy? How’s about some lithium then?
October 19th, 2006 at 7:30 pm
I think the difference between Islam & Christianity is that when Jesus went into the desert & was tempted by Satan with wordly power, etc, he rejected it & came back to be crucified. When Mohammed went into the desert & got tempted by Satan he came back w/ the Quran.
October 19th, 2006 at 7:36 pm
I’m just saying….the Christian Lent(40days/nights in the desert) story & the Ramadan(a month in a desert) story are both central events in the religion. To me, from what I’ve heard, the Ramadan story is a bit derivative.
October 19th, 2006 at 8:00 pm
#10 Katrin
…”good lord, they sent him to a high security prison where the majority of inmates are Egyptian Islamists!”……
Wouldn’t that be wonderful if he converted everyone in prison to Christianity? No more violence, no more hate, love your brother as yourself, turn the other cheek.
/just dreaming
October 19th, 2006 at 8:08 pm
#15 raccoon
After reading that article, it reminds me of the question always in mind as it pertains to palestinians shooting it out with Israelis. Why do the pales always have their children out on the streets during a gun fight? You don’t see Israeli children crouching next to Israeli soldiers or throwing rocks at palestinian gunman. It isn’t like the pales are out for a stroll and then get fired on out of nowhere. Even if it were the case, why go for a stroll with your children if the area is dangerous?
October 19th, 2006 at 8:09 pm
Yeah deprived, because there is NO violence in Christianity, right? Because all Christians turn the other cheek. Because Christians don’t kill in the name of religion.
You guys are nothing but weasels who are looking for any excuse to vilify Islam. All religions have fucked people up. All of them have created monsters. Converting to Christianity from Islam does not mean that Islam is wrong. It simply means that this man found more comfort in Christianity, the way other people find comfort in Islam and end up converting. The real story here is the fucked up way the Egyptian government is organized, not which religion is the devil’s sandbox.
Forsooth was right…Sandmonkey, your readership are nothing but ass lickers.
October 19th, 2006 at 8:12 pm
In my humble view, Christianity and Islam are both slow acting toxins in the body Of Egypt. I just pray for the speedy take over of Egypt by Islamists and get it over and done with. A quick death is better than a slow death in my view. Maybe after that, we As Egyptians will wake up and realise that religion doesn’t mean shit in real life and that we all are the same people.
October 19th, 2006 at 8:50 pm
Me,
I have not licked an ass. Certainly not recently. At least not to the best of my recollections.
In any event, as a ‘neither of the above’, I think the prospects for a pleasant existance as much better in a Christian-majority country than in a Muslim-majority country. Which is why I live in one. Other than annoying Chrismas music on the radio in November and December, no one is coercing me into doing or not doing anything. And I can turn the radio off, if I want.
October 19th, 2006 at 8:59 pm
“Sandmonkey, your readership are nothing but ass lickers.”
Me,
I guess that makes you an ass licker too huh? I mean hey, you’re reading aren’t you?
So, please tell us. How does Sandmonkey’s ass taste like? Let me know. I’ll probably bring along some peanut butter and jelly… for you of course. =p
October 19th, 2006 at 9:04 pm
Forcing people to believe doesn’t make them true believers. I would prefer to see this man a happy Christian than a hypocrite unhappy Muslim who’s still a Muslim just because he’s forced to stay a Muslim.
Some dickheads will never understand the concept of freedom of religion and freedom of thought.
October 19th, 2006 at 9:35 pm
#30 Me:
“Yeah deprived, because there is NO violence in Christianity, right? Because all Christians turn the other cheek. Because Christians don’t kill in the name of religion.”
*******
If Egypt needs help dealing with their Christian converts, they should call Janet Reno. She’ll burn them alive on national television like she did to those evil Christians in Waco, Texas. And she won’t give a rat’s ass if there are women and children there, either.
October 19th, 2006 at 9:51 pm
[...] Egyptian blogger Sandmonkey reports about Bahaa El Din Al Akkad (photo), an Egyptian Muslim, member of Tabligh and Daawa -organization to spread Islam-, who converted to Chistianity afterwards, has been imprisoned 18 months now under the charge of “blasphemy against Islam”. He writes: After contacting a couple of people who are involved in such cases in terms of human rights, the word came back that this story is actually true, that they have known about it for a while now, and have been in contact with this guy’s lawyer and plan on coming out to the public with it soon enough, with their own statements. So I figured I would tell you guys first. This is for real. The guy got arrested for converting to christinaity and have been rotting in prison for the past 18 months for it. I don’t think I need to tell you how much of a violation to his rights this is, but then again, this is Egypt, and we really have no rights to speak of. [...]
October 19th, 2006 at 10:06 pm
Gosh
I like the discussion but would someone write this letter Katrin was talking about. My mother-tongue is neither english nor arabic so Craig or others, why don’t you help.
Prayers will certainly help but the letter will help too.
tks
October 19th, 2006 at 10:17 pm
Please keep us updated on this Sandmonkey.
It doesn’t sound like this poor man’s health will withstand the desert prison he’s being sent to…and that’s if the Islamists in there don’t get to him first. He’s already been beaten.
Hey, the blogosphere was instrumental in getting that Afgani Abdul Rahman spared from the gallows…maybe it can happen again.
Drima, you make good points man. I just wish you could explain it to Muburak and his Gestapo.
October 19th, 2006 at 10:17 pm
racoon, don’t you know This TV chain is biased,
kidding me ?
October 19th, 2006 at 10:24 pm
and I appreciate your worrying about our situation
October 19th, 2006 at 10:30 pm
my god this is going to be one hell of a case , mostly because of contradictory articles in our constitution . shariaa is the primary source of law
and the freedom of religon, expression etc. article .
we really should do something
October 19th, 2006 at 10:46 pm
38 leading Muslim religious scholars and leaders including Shaykh Ali Jumu‘ah (the Grand Mufti of Egypt), Shakyh Abdullah bin Bayyah (former Vice President of Mauritania, and leading religious scholar), and Shaykh Sa‘id Ramadan Al-Buti (from Syria), in addition to the Grand Muftis of Russia, Bosnia, Croatia, Kosovo, Slovenia, Istanbul, Uzbekistan, and Oman, as well as leading figures from the Shi‘a community such as Ayatollah Muhammad Ali Taskhiri of Iran; also HRH Prince Ghazi bin Muhammad bin Talal of Jordan, Muslim scholars in the West such as Shaykh Hamza Yusuf from California, Professor Seyyed Hossein Nasr of George Washington University in Washington, D.C., and Professor Tim Winter of the University of Cambridge signed a letter to the Catholic Pope that said:
…faith in the One God is not the property of any one religious community. According to Islamic belief, all the true prophets preached the same truth to different people at different times. The laws may be different, but the truth is unchanging.
They acknowledged the two great Commandments: ….”and the second commandment is like it: Thou shalt love they neighbour as thyself.” citing Mark 12:29-31 and Matthew 22:37-40
It seems to me that Muslims should demand that this man be released in the name of Islam.
http://www.islamicamagazine.com/online-analysis/open-letter-to-his-holiness-pope-benedict-xvi.html
October 20th, 2006 at 12:45 am
Me #30 (and Forsooth) -
Sandmonkey’s come up in the world. When eee and Cadavre were around, they thought it was “dance monkey dance.” Hooray for Sandmonkey!
October 20th, 2006 at 1:39 am
Good point, Bec
Ella, I’d be happy to write such a letter but my diplomacy skills are…. not so good
If somebody else does, I’ll print it out and sign my name on it and mail it, though!
October 20th, 2006 at 2:17 am
Valerie,
thank God you said what you said. Believe me gurl. Islam is not the problem. The problem is how people twist it to justify all the bullshit they wanna do. That letter was written by Islamic theological heavyweights. They’re the real deal and not the retards you hear screaming in Mosques during Friday sermons demanding the death of infidels. BUT again… The problem is whether people actually follow that stuff. Many sadly don’t.
October 20th, 2006 at 3:43 am
This is repulsive. Can we even pretend to be a modern, remotely open society after things like this happen? This is unbelievable and intolerable. That this man be punished for becoming a Christian wile thousands of Christians are actively encouraged to convert to Islam (an Egyptian priest familiar with the church in Egypt once told me that 20,000 Christians a year convert to Islam. This couple with lower birthrates for Christians and their higher rates of emigration make it virtually impossible for Christians in Egypt to sustain a significant minority status. Soon, i fear, the day shall come when Christians will make up only 5-6% of the Egyptian population, down from 10% today.
We must end this now. Please try and end this SM, and if you need help/support/more letters etc. I’m sure we who read this blog will be glad to help.
October 20th, 2006 at 5:15 am
my diplomacy skills are…. not so good
sure, we passed the pigs bay
October 20th, 2006 at 5:57 am
Drima #34: I agree 100%.
Renee #35: You know that the Branch Davidians’ compound was attacked as a result of their stockpiling of weapons and their molestation of kids, NOT because of their minority religious status. There are plenty of minority religious groups in the USA who have grown quite peacefully and are not attacked. These include all manner of Christian, Jewish and Muslim sects; Wicca and pagan religions; Hinduism; Buddhism; Baha’ism; and so on. As long as they aren’t hurting people around them and breaking the law, there are no issues. The Branch Davidians were a very different cult.
October 20th, 2006 at 6:21 am
I visited http://www.persecution.org, the site that deals with the persecution of Christians. Some of the abuses are truly horrible. My question is, Where does Vatican stand on this issue? Instead of wasting time with philosophical rhetorics, shouldn’t the pope protest loudly and seek justice?
I looked up the Vatican website but they provide no contact. Does anyone here know how to reach the pope?
October 20th, 2006 at 7:16 am
Eva, I am with you !
October 20th, 2006 at 10:58 am
You are right. Petitions and letters would be right. To believe or disbelieve is human’s right not duty. If someone believes because fear of the law or because of fear to leave ummah, Church or other community is he a true believer?
-> Eva, I suppose Vatican will comment on this matter in similar way like with Rahman’s case.
October 20th, 2006 at 11:20 am
I know this comment doesn’t really flow from the conversation, but look at the ex-sheik’s eyes.
Something about them seems.. soft. I don’t know, he’s missing the same kind of wild eyed stare that Nasrallah has.
Make of that as you will.
October 20th, 2006 at 2:13 pm
#52 Ethan,
I noticed it, too. He seems genuinely peaceful.
October 20th, 2006 at 2:30 pm
Drima #45,
Islam can certainly be a force for good, but there are certain aspects of it that are problematic.
Any religion that
1) teaches that all other forms of worship are wrong (e.g. offensive to G-d)
2) teaches that people can be compelled to convert, or to not convert, and that
3) teaches that there will be a benefit in the afterlife for those who commit acts of violence in the current world
is going to inevitably encourage violence directed at nonbelievers.
I don’t mean to say that Islam has exclusive rights throughout history in these beliefs. Yes, yes, Crusades, Inquisition, etc., etc. But Islam is the only religion continuing to promote these three beliefs (to the best of my knowledge). So while I’m not going to bash individual Muslims (I’m pretty well immersed in the Muslim community here). And I’m not going to deny that Islam can be a force for good and a source of spiritual uplift. But there can be some changes with regard to Islam’s place in the marketplace of ideas.
There’s a reason why Buddhist suicide bombers are few and far between, why Confucianists are not rioting in the suburbs of major cities, why you can insult Jesus in a work of art and not go into hiding, why Jews have never intentionally blown up a school bus full of children. Think about it.
October 20th, 2006 at 2:45 pm
#54 BrooklynJon-
I don’t know how anybody can argue with your point. Islam does not have the market cornered on bad behavior however, I do think “they” have become the standout badguys of the new century.
We have had the Nazis (and not all Germans were Nazis) and Communists (not all Russians blah blah), and Inquistion and blah and blah and a given group that seemed to fill this constant vacum in the world of somebody wanting to push some idea in a very violent and chauvinistic manner.
Islam seems to have stepped into the void left by the fall of the Soviet Union as the next group that is going to “take over the world” for the sake of and idea or belef system (sure…and pushed by people that just want the goodies that go with it, power, money, revenge blah blah).
When I bring this up…I get the standard…well the Israelis this and America that, England that, …blah blah. Well…yes both have done bad things…but there is no salient POLICY of conquest, use of terror, denial of rights.
Let’s face it…I think Islam has taken over that other “I” word that was so dirty to the developing world for 4 hundred years or so…Imperialism. Iran, as much as they hated England and America are doing or attempting to do just what was done to them…only much worse.
Most people on this blog seem to be freedom lovers and seekers of truth.
Good for y’all.
October 20th, 2006 at 3:23 pm
#30 Me
…”Yeah deprived, because there is NO violence in Christianity, right? Because all Christians turn the other cheek. Because Christians don’t kill in the name of religion.”…
Link me to any stories of Christians, in the name of God, are blowing themselves up, forcing conversion on others, killing, burning embassies, hiding their women in bags due to uncontrollable male lust, or even killing them to preserve some sort of family honor. Show me verses in the New Testament where it says to kill infidels if they don’t convert or calls anyone the sons of apes and pigs? When Christians are violent, much of the Christian world condemns them. Can you, say the same?
Didn’t think you could. Assbag.
October 20th, 2006 at 3:30 pm
#54 brooklynjon
…”I don’t mean to say that Islam has exclusive rights throughout history in these beliefs. Yes, yes, Crusades, Inquisition, etc., etc.”….
Everyone likes to bring up the Crusades. If islam was not spread by the sword, the Christians would not have gone and kicked their butts back to where they were coming. Much of the Ottoman Empire was Christian before islam spread it’s imperialism and violence. The crusades stopped them from taking over Europe. (since many like to throw imperialism in the wests face, I can throw it back.)
October 20th, 2006 at 3:53 pm
That face! Those eyes! He used to be a forceful, even angry man, but now he is at peace, and feels wiser than he was before.
October 20th, 2006 at 4:01 pm
Deprived,
Note - The Ottoman Empire was created on the blood and ruin of the Christian Byzantine empire, which had been slowly hacked away by Turkish Muslims.
“Istanbul was Constantinople / now it’s Istanbul not Constantinople / been a long time gone, Constantinople / now it’s Turkish Delight on a moonlit night.” - TMBG
October 20th, 2006 at 4:16 pm
Ethan @52 -
He’s missing the fierce stare. Instead, he’s showing a kindly sense of humor. Self-deprecating, even. How refreshing. I’ve known some very saintly people who have had that expression.
Just did a little research. He has an autistic son who depends on him for understanding and a wife who is struggling to make ends meet: Open Door USA. And some Egyptian bodybuilder tried to beat him up in prison.
October 20th, 2006 at 6:31 pm
Arrrgh, another thread in Italics. And no draft. OK, dearies, I don’t want Sandmonkey to become a Saint. He might loose his sarcasm, but his security is even worrying me more than that. You know Amnesty has a strict rule: no one should write who’s living in the country concerned with the case. Imagine why.
So if tomorrow morning (that’s about eight hours from now) you don’t show up with a draft - diplomatic language doesn’t matter, it should just not contain any pitfalls of misunderstanding - I’ll google and copy and paste. The overhanging copyright suit will be passed on to you.
My warmest greetings in Italics,
Katrin *wave*
October 20th, 2006 at 7:53 pm
I want to be stoned to death
I want to be beheaded on television
I want to eat battery acid and spit toxic mud in the eyes of all haters–pious or otherwise…
OK. OK. I’m lying about #2.
October 20th, 2006 at 8:59 pm
59 Bec-
Send him to the USA…funny I am a specialist with autisitic people…I would hook him up…poor guy…now I really feel for him.
What the fuck is with the bodybuilder kicking his ass? What kind of piece of shit of a human is that?
October 20th, 2006 at 9:08 pm
#52
Ethan, OMG!!!! I thought exactly the same thing when I looked at the photo. I saw the photo before I read the post too.
Brooklyn jon,
Now how can you dislike Christmas music? It’s so festive and the city is so pretty when it’s decorated!
Deprived,
Thing is, the Christians in the Crusades didn’t restrict themselves to Muslims. They were killing tons of other Christians too (and…well…anything in their path, really). This unity among Christians is a new invention, coming after the Peace of Westphalia which ended the 30 years war in October of 1648. And…well…christianity was also spread by the sword. However, the Christians abandoned the “by the sword” technique and Islam hasn’t, as a general rule. This is a big problem.
Drima,
Your posts are always a pleasure. Here and on Big Pharaoh’s blog.
October 21st, 2006 at 1:44 am
Man, he looks like a nice guy.
He looks like he should be sitting on a throne with little kids in his lap telling him what they want for Christmas.
Isn’t it funny what different countries find threatening?
BTW, the “bad boys of the 20th Century” were governments that tried to take the place of God.
October 21st, 2006 at 1:55 am
Methinks,
Each Christmas song is okay to hear three or four times each Christmas season. The trouble is, that’s all you hear for about a month.
And “Feliz Navidad” is really stupid.
I do like Bruce Springsteen’s “Santa Claus is Coming to Town”. And of course, they won’t play that on the radio except for Christmastime.
The city does look very nice when decorated. I agree.
Deprived,
I’m not addressing the ethical merit of the Crusades. I’m just noting that it was violence inspired by a particular belief in G-d’s wishes. And yes, the Crusaders converted people by the sword. And they believed they would get well treated in the next world for their violent acts in this one. And, it must be said, applied a great deal of whoop-ass to any Jews they came across along the way.
And I’m cutting short the argument that goes like “The Christians of Europe were schmucks 600 years ago, so we get to do the same thing now,” as though civilizational ethics could be reduced to the “get out of jail free” card in Monopoly’s “Chance” deck.
October 21st, 2006 at 2:02 am
Brooklyn Jon,
Oi! Feliz Navidad! Now that one sticks in your head. It’s like torture.
HEY! That’s an idea - play Feliz Navidad until the enemy combatants confess all they know (about 15 minutes).
October 21st, 2006 at 4:31 am
#23
Genghis Khan had a larger empire than the Islamic conquests, acquired in less time. Best of all, he didn’t take Islamic raiding of his caravans and killing his ambassadors lightly. I guess that means I should worship KHAN!
Your propaganda website needs work, dude.
October 21st, 2006 at 4:40 am
Methinks,
Surely the Geneva Convention would have something to say about that, um, interrogation technique.
But seriously, I wanna wish you a Merry Christmas from the bottom of my heart.
Muahahahahaha!
October 21st, 2006 at 6:52 am
Hmmm deprived…I guess you didn’t hear about the Irish fighting and blowing up each other. But that was just politics, right? Or how about the crazy Christian fundies blowing up abortion clinics because women who choose abortions are murderers? You heard of them? And I wonder what the Bible says about homosexuals? I think we’re supposed to smite them, no?
And hmmm…let’s see what the Bible says about the status of women…if a woman gives birth to a boy, she is unclean for seven days. But if she gives birth to a girl, she’s unclean for two weeks. Yeah, women are really valued in Christianity.
The apostle Peter devalued all religious faith groups other than his own, so basically anyone who’s not Christian is going to hell. Religious tolerance?
My point here is not to put down Christianity but to get people to fucking acknowledge that it’s not religion that’s a problem. If Christians were to follow the Bible literally, we’d have the same problems with them as we do with the Islamists. Stop being so blind and thinking that if we just convert those damn Muslims the world will be nice and peaceful. Learn and understand the politics of what’s happening in the world and stop whitewashing Christianity assbag.
Drima, I’m not insulting SM here so kill the attempt at sarcastic humor. SM’s readers have a tendency to raise their hands up in the air and “Praise The Lord” Al Sharpton style everytime he exposes some dirty laundry that’s often taken out of context. I read his blog because I’m his friend and often disagree with practically 99% of what he’s saying.
Will that keep me from reading his work? No, because that’s what friends do. My issue of contention is the way the jerks creep out of the woodworks to demonize Islam and Muslims based on the overexposure of some nutcases.
October 21st, 2006 at 7:29 am
Me,
1) Christians follow the 2 laws of Jesus. Jews follow the numerous laws of the Old Testament. The 2 laws that Christians ought to follow are: 1) Love the Lord your God and 2) Love your neighbor as yourself.
2) Jesus never taught anything violent. He did not tell christians to kill people who harm the unborn. When some christians bomb abortion clinics, they do so of their own free will and due to their twisted views that cannot be substantiated by anything Jesus taught. And there are plenty of christians who will gladly turn in anyone they suspect of planning to bomb an abortion clinic.
3) Christians are not commanded to harm homosexuals because there were no christians in the Old Testament. Christians follow christ’s teachings, and He said to love thy neighbors as thyself. Homosexuals are included in that love. This is ignorance on your part.
4) The issue about women being unclean after birth has nothing to do with their status or righteousness as you falsely claimed. It has to do with menstruation. Men should not go near women while they menstruate, not because the women are sinful or anything, but because the men would suffer from the mood swings. =)
5) The apostle Peter and all other apostles believed that anyone who do not believe in Jesus are not guaranteed salvation, but they never advocated shoving christianity down anyone’s throat. They never advocated violence. They believed in their heart but did not encouraged negative actions against anyone.
If Christians were to follow the Bible literally, we’d have the same problems with them as we do with the Islamists.
Wrong. Christians were birthed by the teachings of Christ so if they followed His teachings, the crusades, inquisitions, etc would most probably not have happened. It’s because they failed to follow Jesus’ teachings that they lost their ways. When christians returned to Jesus teachings, the dark ages of christendom came to an end. Do you see any chrstian beheading people in the name of god today? You’re twisting things here due to your ignorance of christianity.
October 21st, 2006 at 7:53 am
Anon, christian religion was a means to unify states at that time, and the pope hat a great temporal power, he could revocate any king out of the chosens or decided another state to make war with the disobedient, religion has always been a temporal power and the opium plebe, even now see how Bush talks in the name of God !
October 21st, 2006 at 8:00 am
Nomad,
Yes, I understand the pope has great influence but what does that have to do with the teachings of Jesus?
You say bush talks in the name of God? What did he say in the name of God?
BTW, are you the same Nomad at faithfreedom?
October 21st, 2006 at 8:16 am
faithfreedom ? I am not acting there
Didn’t Bush said he had the revelation and the duty to bring democraty in ME ?
That would have been a good issue with someone more genuine !
October 21st, 2006 at 8:20 am
Didn’t Bush said he had the revelation and the duty to bring democraty in ME ?
I don’t know. That doesn’t sound like something he would say, from what I know of him.
That would have been a good issue with someone more genuine !
What do you mean by this?
October 21st, 2006 at 8:30 am
“Drima, I’m not insulting SM here so kill the attempt at sarcastic humor. SM’s readers have a tendency to raise their hands up in the air and “Praise The Lord” Al Sharpton style everytime he exposes some dirty laundry that’s often taken out of context. I read his blog because I’m his friend and often disagree with practically 99% of what he’s saying.”
Ops my bad =)
“My issue of contention is the way the jerks creep out of the woodworks to demonize Islam and Muslims based on the overexposure of some nutcases.”
You defintely have a solid point there. I agree. Cheers mate!
October 21st, 2006 at 8:39 am
Anon, if Bush has had a better IQ, things might have been otherwise
October 21st, 2006 at 8:51 am
Me,
Drima, I’m not insulting SM here so kill the attempt at sarcastic humor.
No, you’re not insulting SM… just his readers, right? Why don’t you tell us who you really are, Me? So that we can insult you back, all prope like
SM’s readers have a tendency to raise their hands up in the air and “Praise The Lord” Al Sharpton style everytime he exposes some dirty laundry that’s often taken out of context.
Really? And who the fuck are you?
I read his blog because I’m his friend and often disagree with practically 99% of what he’s saying.
Yeah, you disagree with 99% of what he says and you think his readers are reactionary ass-lickers who probably deserve to be taken out and shot, for the crime of agreeing wiuth the 99% of the stuff that your great “friend” Sandmonkey writes, that you don’t agree with.
Will that keep me from reading his work? No, because that’s what friends do.
Yeah. That’s what “friends” do, isn’t it? They go around insulting the friends of their friend
My issue of contention is the way the jerks creep out of the woodworks to demonize Islam and Muslims based on the overexposure of some nutcases.
Didn’t you just repeatedly insult Christianity and Christians for… well… nothing at all?
You wouldn’t happen to be one of those nutcases, would you?
October 21st, 2006 at 8:52 am
Hah… I pwned the italics!
Now I just have to remember what I did
October 21st, 2006 at 11:25 am
I have not seen a single USEFUL Comment so far. I only read comments by idiots insulting Islam with no valid reason and therefore falsely trying to prove that they are logical.
My comment is just to contribute to the “idiocy” that is prevailing here. Here is a fact: 90% of Muslims in France do not practice Islam (except for Ramadan) and when a law that bans Muslim women from covering their hair is applied, you see these 90% of Muslims enraged leading to unecessary violence. BUT WHY???? Since you don’t practice Islam, what the hell do you care abt this law???????????
In the other side, when you see a Westerner, born as a Christian, converting to Islam willingly, we truly see how peaceful this person is. I am not saying that if he were a Christian he wouldn’t be peaceful. My point is that Islam was assigned to the wrong people, people who only think abt power, sex and beating up their women and pretending that this was dictated by Islam.
So before insulting Islam, try to learn more about the people who practice Islam. This way you would be able to differentiate between the violent culture of these people and between Islam which tried to convert these people into becoming peaceful but failed.
Adios amigos
October 21st, 2006 at 1:31 pm
ZUZU Says:”Here is a fact: 90% of Muslims in France do not practice Islam (except for Ramadan) and when a law that bans Muslim women from covering their hair is applied, you see these 90% of Muslims enraged leading to unecessary violence. BUT WHY???? Since you don’t practice Islam, what the hell do you care abt this law???????????”
Maybe because those French Muslims are raised in a culture that teaches them to hate non-Muslims and feel their “honor” is affronted every time a kafir doesn’t behave like a dhimmi and give in to their every demand? Why do you think they were so angry?
ZUZU Says:”In the other side, when you see a Westerner, born as a Christian, converting to Islam willingly, we truly see how peaceful this person is.”
Really? Tell me what happened to Malcolm X again and how “peaceful” Islam made his killers?
ZUZU Says:”My point is that Islam was assigned to the wrong people, people who only think abt power, sex and beating up their women and pretending that this was dictated by Islam.”
Why do you think it isn’t when the Quran specifically tells men to beat their wives and goes on about power a sex a lot?
ZUZU Says:”This way you would be able to differentiate between the violent culture of these people and between Islam which tried to convert these people into becoming peaceful but failed.”
What makes you think that the religion makes them peaceful much less that the religion even tries to make them peaceful? Islam is not a religion of peace. Muslims do not turn the other cheek. They also inflict an amazing amount of violence on each other and any weaker communities pretty much everywhere they can. You can call that bigotry but before you do would you mind pointing me to a Muslim community outside the West that would prove me wrong?
October 21st, 2006 at 2:04 pm
Hehehehe, Craig you must be in a hyper mood. Ah let’s just give Me a break shall we. I’m sure he just had a bad day. Right Me?
BTW Me, fine maybe you’re not insulting SM but you did insult us and yourself too you know. You read this blog and that makes you an asslicker too.
Yaaay to Rantings of a Sandmonkey (The blog of asslickers!)
SM, change the name of your blog to Asslicker Central hehehehe
October 21st, 2006 at 3:26 pm
Drima
October 21st, 2006 at 4:55 pm
“Me” is a woman who is staying anonymous so you can insult me HERE and not on my blog. I don’t want you crazies coming to visit me and contaminating my blog with your shit. So go ahead with the insults. It don’t bother me too much.
Twisting Christianity? I went to Catholic school for 12 years. I know more about Christianity than most of you. I DID NOT insult Christianity. I was asked to point out where I can find violence in Christianity and I did. You will find sexism and violence in all of the monotheistic religions IF YOU WANT TO. And most of you seem to want to find this only in the Koran but you conveniently want to pass on the Bible because it simply suits your agenda. Fine, good for you. But don’t expect, then, for me to sit back and not challenge your bullshit.
And Craig, friends don’t always have to agree with each other. And they don’t have to agree with the friends of their friends. And hells yeah I can easily insult the friends of my friends if they’re nothing but a bunch of reactionary shitheads who think that their “truth” trumps all.
And Drima, reading SM’s blog does not make one an ass licker. What the hell is wrong with you? An ass licker is a person who does not challenge or question, but simply praises everything you say.
SM’s post had nothing to do with which religion is better or which religion offers more comfort or which religion is less violent. He was telling us about a HUGE injustice that is happening in Egypt. His readers used it as an excuse to start ranting about how shitty Islam and Muslims are and how the world would be a better place if they all just converted. They all praise the Sandmonkey for exposing a story that’ll allow them to jump on a rally against Islam bandwagon.
October 21st, 2006 at 6:00 pm
Me,
Twisting Christianity? I went to Catholic school for 12 years. I know more about Christianity than most of you. I DID NOT insult Christianity.
Yes, you did. And your claimed knowledge about Christianity is no immunity form being a religious bigot, Me.
And Craig, friends don’t always have to agree with each other.
That may be, but I’ve never claimed somebody was a “friend” and then gone on to say that I diagree with 99% of their opinions.
And in the case of an abusive person such as yourself, I don’t think I would *want* you for a friend if you disagreed with me that much. What a fucking nightmare that would be. All that “in your face” confrontation and nasty commentary, what fun
October 21st, 2006 at 6:48 pm
http://www.islameyat.com http://www.alkenaa.com http://www.islam-christianity.net These are sites from the programs being broadcasted from Al-Hayah Tv(Anti-Islamic Faith Channel) for all who think that Islam is the religious og God check’em out.
October 21st, 2006 at 7:11 pm
Craig are you not the same guy who on that diasporic blog commented that there are tenets in Christianity that don’t fit your belief system? People misquote things from scripture all the time in Islam and Christianity. You cannot deny that there are problematic verses in the Bible as are in the Koran. That’s the point of my comments. It’s not to vilify either religion. What we end up doing with those verses is up to us. Is it true that Muslims twist things around to suit their own agenda? Yeah. But so do Christians.
it’s a good thing we’re not friends Craig. You seem to be the kind of person who wants all your friends to agree with you.
October 21st, 2006 at 7:13 pm
Another thing Craig. Why are you so okay with the bigots who hate Islam but suddenly attack me for pointing out that some things in Christianity may be problematic? Why aren’t you calling them bigots?
October 21st, 2006 at 8:58 pm
it’s a good thing we’re not friends Craig. You seem to be the kind of person who wants all your friends to agree with you.
No, that would be pretty dull! But I certainly don’t want to be around somebody who disputes every single word I ever say either… especially if that person was as contentious as you.
Another thing Craig. Why are you so okay with the bigots who hate Islam but suddenly attack me for pointing out that some things in Christianity may be problematic? Why aren’t you calling them bigots?
You realize that the most outspoken against Islam are mostly atheists (or maybe agnostics), right? They only complain about Islam today because it seems to be the problem, today. They were compalining about Christians ten years ago, and they will be again, I’m sure.
But you didn’t attack them for their religious intolerance. You decided to attack my religion, for things other people said about yours. That’s kinda like fighting racism with racism… not a sound plan
October 22nd, 2006 at 12:19 am
Me,
Two? Is that you?
In any event, as always, the issue isn’t what’s written in the holy book, but how much that’s subject to interpretation, and what does that make people do.
Yes, yes, most Muslims love peace, as do most Christians, Jews, Buddhists, blah, blah.
But quite a very large number of Muslims are xenophobic. To the point that they will riot if someone advocates opeining diplomatic relations with Israel. To the point that they will burn down embassies if someone draws a stick figure and sticks the prophet’s name under it as a label. To the point that they will exclusively give money to charities that exclusively give money to Muslim causes. To the point that they will try to convert me, but wil kill their daughters if they want out of Islam. To the point that they approve of flying jets into office buildings (which, bizarrely, they also insist was not done by Muslims, because Islam is a religion of peace, after all).
If Islam 1) got rid of the xenophobia 2) got rid of the belief that they are the only true religion 3) got rid of the whole 72 virgins thing, then who the hell would care about the other particulars of the religion. Eat what you want. Cover what you want. Just don’t blow me up, and don’t kill your kids if they want to work at McDonalds or whatever. It’s really that easy.
October 22nd, 2006 at 4:26 am
Thank you for posting this sad yet predictable story about this dear man in prison…
The FACT is for anyone that has even a basic understanding of Islam is that these cases like this former Sheik are completely normal…
ISLAM teaches the death of unrepentant converts to other faiths…that is a FACT….and has been practiced for 1400 years…
The only reason that Afghani convert is living now in safety in Italy is because of the uproar raised in the West…..we have to do the same for this Egyptian!!
But to those that think the problem doesn’t reside in Islam, you are fooling yourselves….this has everything to do with Islam and it brutal inherent nature!!
Thank goodness hundreds of millions of muslims do not adhere to every brutal teaching of Muhammed in the Quran and Sunnah!!
October 23rd, 2006 at 4:27 pm
[...] EGYPTIAN SANDMONKEY: “I received this article of news in my e-mail, and it’s detailing the strange tale of Bahaa El Din Al Akkad, a 57 year old egyptian, ex-muslim sheikh who converted to Christianity more than a year ago, and was therefore arrested by State Security and thrown in Jail. No real charges, except “Blasphemy against Islam“, which is a bullsh*t charge anyway as any of you may imagine”; here’s our Abdul Rahman coverage from back in March. Notes Malkin: “They still want to kill Abdul Rahman”; Challenges of Christian Converts From Islam …. (Various) [...]
October 24th, 2006 at 1:34 am
Great story. I added it to my blog and credited you. Thanks for posting this.
October 28th, 2006 at 6:26 am
shut the fuck up fucking christians, that’s the law in egypt, i think u call for law applying all over the universe. BITCHES
November 10th, 2006 at 11:28 pm
Albertadude said:
Thank you for posting this sad yet predictable story about this dear man in prison…
The FACT is for anyone that has even a basic understanding of Islam is that these cases like this former Sheik are completely normal…
ISLAM teaches the death of unrepentant converts to other faiths…that is a FACT….and has been practiced for 1400 years…
The only reason that Afghani convert is living now in safety in Italy is because of the uproar raised in the West…..we have to do the same for this Egyptian!!
But to those that think the problem doesn’t reside in Islam, you are fooling yourselves….this has everything to do with Islam and it brutal inherent nature!!
Thank goodness hundreds of millions of muslims do not adhere to every brutal teaching of Muhammed in the Quran and Sunnah!!
November 20th, 2006 at 4:06 am
Well ppl are converting to islam every single day, infact ppl leave and join religions this has been happening forever. Anyways according to facts and numbers, Islam has been the largest growing religion for quite some time, which would mean thats more people convert to islam, rather than leaving it/convert to any other religion.
We couldn’t care less anyways, its all about freedom of choice, infact islam tells people to think, not to follow, and example of people who just follow thier parent’s religion:
“Kalo ena na3bod ma kan ya3bod aba2ona, Kol awalaw kan abahom mo7`te2oon” (I am not copy and pasting, so I don’t exactly know which surah)
Anyways loose translation “They say we worship what our parents worhsiped, but what if there parents were wrong?”, so it is pretty much about choice.
Now, I will tell u what the EGYTPIAN christian response when some1 converts to islam:
# Phase 1, Denial: NO, THEY DIDN’T CONVERT HE/SHE WAS KIDNAPPED, (altho the police says otherwise), and they start protesting “CONSPIRACY AGAINST THE CROSS”, and other dellusions.
# Phase 2, Murder: According to egyptian christians, (and some even are my friends) when a christian converts to islam he is killed by his/her family, which is an incident that happens quite often, yet censorship remains to not cause trouble, much like censorship on this shiekh converting.
For example the priest’s wife, who against the constitution was brought to a christian only hearing, and till now we don’t know what happened to her.
Another important issue, if the comments here, and perhabs the blog poster is trying to give the impression that the police is siding with muslims and opressing christians, PLEASE NOTE:
# People who grew beard are often arested for no charge.
# Shieks are being arrested and put in prison for no charge or trial.
# Shieks are banned from giving lessons at mosques.
So it has nothing to do with him converting to Islam, this is egypt for you, injustice for all, censorship on everything, and throw everybody in jail.
As for islam conversion law (7ad El Reddah), fristly the person must’ve chosen islam out of his own personal free mature will, and if he did so, when he converts he is executed (yes he is). But if he hadn’t chosen the religion, or hadn’t decided on islam, he is free to do whatever he wants, its only after he makes that choice! and since countries don’t apply that (which I am against) no one chooses what religion to follow, muslims follow islam because of thier parents, and egyptian christians continue to follow there never ending hate for muslims, and completely ignoring Jesus’ (PBUH) teachings. If the Redah law were to be trully applied properly, only those who really want the religion will choose to follow it, which is something I’d like to see, as for those not sure, they should continue to seek knowledge about all religions and decide in the end what to follow or belive in.
Peaceout..
May 25th, 2007 at 5:13 am
[...] Christian news website is reporting that Bahaa Eddin el-Akkad, the detained convert was finally released last month… In a surprise gesture, Egyptian [...]