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Monday, 30 Oct 2006
I didn't want to write about this.
Hell, I didn't even want to know about it.
I remember the first time I heard of it while I was in Amman. Eblis sent me an e-mail titled "Behold the revolution in Egypt" with a link to malek's post on it and I stupidly clicked on it and was presented with a reality that I didn't want or desire to confront.
The story is as follows for the those of you who didn't hear about it: It was the first day of Eid, and a new film was opening downtown. Mobs of males gatherd trying to get in, but when the show was sold out, they decided they will destroy the box office. After accomplishing that, they went on what can only be described as a sexual frenxy: They ran around grabbing any and every girl in sight, whether a niqabi, a Hijabi or uncoverd. Whether egyptian or foreigner. Even pregnant ones. They grabbed them, molested them, tried to rip their cloths off and rape them, all in front of the police, who didn't do shit. The good people of downtown tried their best to protect the girls. Shop owners would let the girls in and lock the doors, while the mobs tried to break in. Taxi drivers put the girls in the cars while the mobs were trying to break the glass and grab the girls out. It was a disgusting pandamonium of sexual assaults that lasted for 5 houres from 7:30 PM to 12:30 am, and it truns my stomach just to think about it.
I called my father when I heard of that happening, and he informed me that he didn't hear of it at all. They watched Al Jazeerah, CNN, flipped through opposition newspapers, and nothing. Nada. Nobody mentioned it. As if it didn't happen.
But it did.
The bloggers available downtown documented the whole thing, and provided pictures of it as well. Reading their accounts I can't help by feel my heart being torn on what the people of the country has turned to. The one that broke my heart the most was Sharqawi's account (remember, he is the guy who got sexually assaulted by the police during interrogation ) and how it suddenly danwed at him that what happend to him wasn;t an isolated incident. That The Police forces didn;t came from another planet, that they were born and raised egyptians, amongst the egyptian people, the same egyptian people who have produced those mobs who found it in their right to attack girls in middle of crowded downtown for 5 houres under the police's watchdul eyes. The ones who approached the police asking them to do something were told : "what do you want us to do? It's Eid. Happy Eid to you too!" The same response was given to women who went to the police stations to report the incidents. The police refused to do their jobs and take a report, because it would probably reflect badly on their downtown peers. Some people were surprised at the Police's reaction, but the majoirty of us weren't. Those are the same police officers who facilitated the assaults on women last year during the referendum. This is business as usual for them.
What was unusual was the silence of the press. Nobody was mentioning it. Nobody was bringing it up. It seemed like there was some consensus of just not reporting it and maybe it will just go away. What at first seemed like a conspiracy got later on confirmed by my sources in the news media. Al Jazeera had taped the incidents but were forbidden to air it at the request of the egyptian authorities. The editor at a leading newspaper refused to touch it with a 6 foot pole. This was going to be one of those incidents that only the blogsphere would talk about, while the mainstream media ignored.
Until Nawarah Negm blew the whole thing wide open on live television on the Dream Channel.
She was brought in as a writer to be part of a fluffy segment on Mona Al Shazly show talking about the Ramadan TV shows, and the girl's first response to the question was: "What Television shows do you want to discuss, when egyptian girls are assaulted on the streets of Cairo while the police watched and did nothing?" When Mona counterd that she never heard of it before, Nawarah told her all about it, in details and how it's all over the internet.
All of Egypt saw that. The cat was out of the bag. A cover-up was no longer feasiable.
When I spoke to the brilliant Nawarah yesterday, she told me that she was debating talking about it or not on television, that was until she was faced with the camera and found herself on the air, and just couldn't hold herself back. She went for it, and god bless her for having the guts to do that.
The next day, Mona Al Shazly went and did a segment on the incident and interviewed the people on the street. The video of the segment is here (arabic, sorry). She even contacted the Ministery of Interior for a statement. You know what their response was?
"We didn't hear of anything. This didn't happen. Things were just crowded in downtown that day, but no girls were assaulted, because no police reports were filed in that regard!"
FUCKERS!
I am not one of those people who claims to be above hate. I do hate, and I hate quite passionately, the same way when I love I love passionately. But I have to say that I have never hated anyone or group as much as I hate the egyptian police at this moment. It's a hate of unequaled proportions. I really wouldn't mind them all dying horrible deaths right now. A police force that doesn't protect its citizens, especially its women, has no business being on the streets. They become nothing more than an organized armed gang now in my opinion, even lower, because they are shaming everyone who wore theat uniform before and did his job. THEY DESERVE TO DIE!
Anyway, the TV show brought it up, and now Egypt's leading newspaper, Al Masry Al youm, featured two columns on the incident. More is bound to come and this national shame will be exposed and confronted.
Now, the egyptian blogsphere has been abuzz in debate over the incident. Some are writing posts on why it happend, possible causes, what it means, the social and political factors that could possibly lead to this behavior, and quite honestly, I can't be botherd. I don't care why it happend. Rape is not up for debate. I just care that it happend. What we should discuss right now isn't what caused it, but what kind of horrible punishment that should be enacted on any egyptian male who thinks that it is well into his right to sexually harass a female on the street. That's it. Pure and simple.
I am often told that I am too westernized or too liberal by people I know, and they are not wrong or inaccurate. My values are for the most part western values. However, there are two middle-eastern traits in me that I can never give up: The first is my stupid insistince on always paying for the bill when I am with a girl I am dating, and the second is my protectiveness of women. I have no tolerance for those who assault women sexually in any way, and that almost got me kicked out of my school in Boston when I broke the leg of one of my roommates who raped a friend of mine. The incident only resulted in him getting a broken leg because people stoped me before I killed him. And I had the full intention of killing him. Rapists do not deserve to live. And that's how I feel towards every single one of those pieces of shit that attacked women on the streets of cairo the other day.
People can debate solutions based on dialogue, education, or whatever and that's their right. My solution is far simpler: Any egyptian man whose mother raised him right should beat the living crap of any man he sees on the street that assaults or harasses a female. Think of them as your sisters, and act accordingly. The Police isn't interested in protecting the women, and that's fine, but that means that we should take this job as our own. Those who insist on acting like animals will be treated as such, and deserve no sympathy or mercy from us. I assure you, if we did this, if we undertook this as part of our national duty, there will no longer be a problem on our streets.
That is all!
October 30th, 2006 at 2:11 pm
Words like this are a huge comfort in light of how many men in the Middle East share the ‘women are meat on the street’ ideaology.
Women can raise awareness but it won’t stop until men speak to one another as you have.
October 30th, 2006 at 2:23 pm
I’ve never heard of anything like this. This is sheer madness. People are becoming more religious but their behaviors are getting worse.
October 30th, 2006 at 2:29 pm
This is horrific. Echos of ‘cats and meat’ here … how disgusting.
Wake up, Egypt. Wake up, please!
October 30th, 2006 at 2:37 pm
It is so sad to see what is happening to egypt and egyptians
October 30th, 2006 at 2:58 pm
Thanks for posting it, Monkey. Hats off and all respect to you.
October 30th, 2006 at 3:07 pm
omg this is totally insane…how can anybody just let such things happen? in texas, somebody would have stopped these idiots with a shotgun! most likely the women!
October 30th, 2006 at 3:13 pm
You are amazing. Not many men care about women the same as you.
What happened in your country is horrifying and even more horrifying ãre the cover-ups.
October 30th, 2006 at 3:29 pm
One of those rare times that I find myself in complete agreement with you. They do deserve to die. Every last one of those sons of bitches.
October 30th, 2006 at 3:44 pm
Reminds me of the “wilding” incident in NY central park. A bunch of blacks decided to start harassing and assaulting white women in the park, and cops stood back and did nothing because they didn’t want to “make things worse”.
In both cases, a good guy with an M-16 and immunity from prosecution would have been a good thing.
October 30th, 2006 at 4:21 pm
Sam, this is fucked up, the more I read, the more disgusted I was. As much as this doesn’t make sense now, but Egypt is on it’s way to anarchy. The freakin’ asshole who is watching his people suffer, will soon go down.
Egypt was never like this..
And we all know who to blame.
I can’t believe the police just watched, as men acted like mad animals.
This is really sad.
October 30th, 2006 at 4:29 pm
I can’t express how disgusted I am by this shameful behavior.
October 30th, 2006 at 4:47 pm
Why is this unacceptable? There’s nothing out of the ordinary here! Why does it surprise anyone that knows anything about Egypt that women are publically raped while the cops watch. Sounds about par for the course.
One day, SM, one day rapes commited on the streets of Egypt in front of the watchful eyes of the police, who are supposed to protect you, will soon be commonplace and a normal occurrence. Hopefully you won’t be so bothered next time….
It ALL comes back to the “women are cat meat” theory/ideology. This mentality has infected huge portions of our country. Until Egyptians stop following these ignorant narrow-minded views shit like this will continue to happen.
Screw Egypt and the mess that it has become. I’m sick of reading about it. I’m sick of Egypt. I’m sick of Egyptians in Egypt who are hopelessly powerless to do anything.
I don’t know, maybe it’s the whole being raped in public while cops watch that has thrown me over the edge…
October 30th, 2006 at 4:48 pm
Sam, just let me know wha tyou need and I will try to help
October 30th, 2006 at 4:55 pm
i’ll raise my every hat i ever got or going to have..
SM.. m3 eni delwa2ti 7azena for different “other” news, just heard.. bas your words made me happy … God bless you yabni,,,
October 30th, 2006 at 5:01 pm
Well done, SM. I admire your attitude and your eloquence in expressing it.
My hope is that egyptian women now become part of the solution. Not by wearing hijabs! - not least because that didn’t help in the current instance. But by grouping together to change society.
At least - that’s what led to women’s relatively good treatment in the west. (Yes, I know about the central park incident. We’ll never live in a perfect world. But, on the whole, they’ve come a long way baby.)
On balance, society becomes much better when women force it to include them as a powerful voice whose opinions must be heard and included. For example, some female cops - especially female senior cops - would have helped in the recent disgrace.
Of course - it’s the emancipation of women that’s given us presidents like carter and clinton, restrictions on smoking, and all the other pestilences of a feminized society. Still and all, we’re better off with them included than we were when they were excluded. I hope they will soon become equally forceful in egypt.
October 30th, 2006 at 5:46 pm
Like smarty says, we had an incident in New York similar to this, some years ago. All the video and photos of the perps was in the news, and the police were asking for help identifying the perps. They were then arrested and prosecuted (a lot fo them, anyway) and there hasn’t been an incident since. Maybe that would work in EGypt, too. The public humiliation of both the perps and their family/friends would go a long way in Egypt, I’m guessing, even if the prison sentences didn’t.
But the conduct of the cops…. unforgiveable.
October 30th, 2006 at 5:53 pm
Amino Says:”As much as this doesn’t make sense now, but Egypt is on it’s way to anarchy. The freakin’ asshole who is watching his people suffer, will soon go down. Egypt was never like this.. And we all know who to blame.
I can’t believe the police just watched, as men acted like mad animals.
This is really sad.”
What makes you think Egypt was never like this? This is a country where over 80 percent of the women suffer FGM. What has happened is that the entire rural population has moved to Cairo. Presumably the countryside was *always* like this, it was just the European-influenced cities that were different. Even then, do you think that in the 50s the satellite suburbs were any different? I agree that some things have changed. Polygamy is more common. Rich Arabs from Gulf push the price of young women up and so delay marriage for young Egyptian men. But when young boys one generation from the country do this, of course the young boys one generation from the country in uniform do nothing. That is not what they are there for. People like Sheik Hilali don’t come from nowhere. Their views are not new. Hilali quoted al-Rafi’i, for crying out loud, arguing that even in cases of forcible rape the female victim ought to be jailed for life. They asked for it you see.
October 30th, 2006 at 6:11 pm
“People like Sheik Hilali don’t come from nowhere. Their views are not new. Hilali quoted al-Rafi’i, for crying out loud, arguing that even in cases of forcible rape the female victim ought to be jailed for life. They asked for it you see.”
The only true solution is to destroy Islam. Egypt is the home of the Pharaohs and a noble and ancient society - ruined by the Arab invasion of the seventh century.
Anything those Arabs touched was desecrated. Now is the time to fight back before the rest of the world is similarly desecrated.
October 30th, 2006 at 6:12 pm
Any ideas when the mass media might get around to deciding to cover this?
October 30th, 2006 at 6:25 pm
“The only true solution is to destroy Islam. Egypt is the home of the Pharaohs and a noble and ancient society - ruined by the Arab invasion of the seventh century.”
YES YES Abu Kufr. You are right in one regard.
But a more pragmatic solution is required since I don’t think the “destruction of Islam” will obviously ever happen. Islam should be reformed so that Shukh Hilali is not the mouthpiece of the religion. I just don’t have the slightest clue on how this reformation should take place…
October 30th, 2006 at 7:03 pm
I hope the news of this spreads throughout the world and produces some action, such as a boycott of Egypt as a tourist destination. I also hope that in every mosque in the Western world where the ideology of hatred is preached by the resident Iman, he will be exposed and rooted out. This is outrageous. It must stop.
October 30th, 2006 at 7:05 pm
No, there’s no need to destroy Islam. There’s an urgent need to destroy Islamism, though.
I know very decent Muslims to whom I would confide my daughter any time. What’s happening here is something different. Islam is taken over and abused. This is not the Islam I know. And I’ll never let anyone destroy the decent Muslims I know.
October 30th, 2006 at 7:12 pm
K, it’s end of ramadan. These men weren’t allowed to have any sexual thoughts or even doing it. Have u ever seen 40 days and 40 nights? Yeah, you’ll know what I mean. Men go crazy.
Arab men who weren’t raised properly and learned from madrassa schools simply don’t know. Put them in a civilized society, and then they’ll learn that they’re gonna have to be equal to the women.
Egypt? I don’t know.
October 30th, 2006 at 7:15 pm
I still read ur blog sometimes. Western values are one thing, but the rage and disgust that follows reading about something like this is something else. I totally agree with u this time if this really happened, and it sounds like it did sadly enough. But these people seems like they in fact are the same kind of thugs that the police uses to do their dirty work. So I’m actually not that surprised that the police stood there and did nothing. Lets hope their sisters get the same treatment one day.
October 30th, 2006 at 7:16 pm
U broke your roommate’s leg? Man, that’s painful enough. Good job, u did the right thing.
We gotta stop all those arab rapists who rape non muslims and muslims. Women should be the leaders of their countries. not men.
October 30th, 2006 at 7:17 pm
Maybe I am too influenced by a Napoleonic legal system and maybe I am more full of hate than the SM, but my brain tells me death is too harsh a punishment for this assholes, and my soul is convinced death doesn’t quite cut it, that they deserve worse, much worse. I say beat them, but not to death, but within an inch of their lives. Beat them so that they never again have proper use of their arms, legs and obviously underdeveloped penises. Beat them until they are confined for the rest of their lives to a dirty spot in the floor drooling, unable to remember who they are, soiling themselves, and this hardly is enough punishment for rapists (and child molesters, for that case).
October 30th, 2006 at 7:23 pm
^^^^^^^^^^^^
and faggots
October 30th, 2006 at 7:49 pm
Enrique: “beat them, but not to death, but within an inch of their lives. Beat them so that they never again have proper use of their arms, legs and obviously underdeveloped penises”
How about castration?
Less work for the prison authorities. And fits the crime.
F**ing h**. You’ve got me thinking like a saudi!
October 30th, 2006 at 8:27 pm
“Lets hope their sisters get the same treatment one day.” Hany - no, no, no! What kind of wish is this! Hey!
Has anyone heard anything at all from the young women involved? Probably too ashamed and frightened, right? Probably think it was their fault for being out in public during this time, poor things.
Sandmonkey, I think you are doing the best you can. You’ve described the incident in a way that makes people feel the injustice and inhumanity of it all. I don’t know if Islam is truly at fault. I personally have many conflicted feelings about it, but I’ve known many decent, civilized Muslims and I know they must be appalled. What a horrific mess. There are so many elements to it that seem to have conspired into one big witches brew.
October 30th, 2006 at 8:51 pm
Bec,
Ok, U’re right. Lets hope they get raped themselves then.
October 30th, 2006 at 9:29 pm
SM - a disgusting story indeed and one to make any decent man feel ashamed. But from your account, the degenerate behaviour was not universal and you should be proud of the shopkeepers and taxi-drivers who tried to protect the women under attack, no doubt putting themselves and their property at risk. True, it is no more than you would hope for from civilised men, but it should give hope that all is not lost.
However, woe on a society whose appointed guardians stand by and let the lawless run loose. The police are required to put themselves in harms way to protect the weak and the innocent, but this bunch of scum vermin are a disgrace to their uniform and the society that they are supposed to be protecting. Perhaps an Israeli smart bomb on the local police barracks might not be a totally bad thing.
Good luck Egypt - you are going to need it, by all accounts.
October 30th, 2006 at 9:32 pm
Egypter: “I just don’t have the slightest clue on how this reformation should take place…”
I just don’t have the slighest clue how this took place, but it did; and things can change for the better. We just need to keep picking away at the problem, eventually cracks will form in the rock.
October 30th, 2006 at 9:33 pm
It is not just Egypt but the entire Eastern Hemisphere, extending from parts of Eastern Europe to Japan that suffers from the ailment called misogyny. Culture, Tradition, Religion and some old fashioned male chauvinism have all played a part in this. It is not as if the Western world is completely free of this scourge, however the success of women in various fields of life and their empowerment has reduced it to a large extend over the past century, or thereabouts. The other major factor which always encourages such wanton rapacious behaviour is the stigma associated with the rape victim. Religion and culture often dictate the ostracisation of the victim and the trauma of reliving the entire episode many times over dissuade them from coming out in the open.
The reluctance of the Police in restraining the mob was in itself a crime, and would amount to being accessories to it. However, the disgraceful attempts made by the Police in brushing the entire incident under the carpet is more so. A friend of mine who worked for an NGO aiding rape victim told me once that the actual act of rape is only the first in a series of rapes the victim is subjected to- the rest of the events that follow, from filing the complaint to the trial to the often helplessness she feels as a result of lack of support, amount to nothing short than rape.
I am no fan of the Shariah law, but in this instance I am ready for a compromise, let the perpetrator’s of this horrible crime be tried in the regular courts and if, found guilty, be subjected to the punishment for rape under the Shariah. That, I think will be the best that you can give these women, who have already been through so much this Eid.
October 30th, 2006 at 9:40 pm
[...] Le reste de l’article est trop long à traduire, et il renvoie sur d’autres Blogs qui en parlent, même sur une vidéo qui relate l’événement. Je vous invite à le consulter ici (en anglais). [...]
October 30th, 2006 at 9:51 pm
“the degenerate behaviour was not universal and you should be proud of the shopkeepers and taxi-drivers who tried to protect the women under attack”
The true heroes of the story!! Thanks for the reminder, charlie 316! I wish we could give these folks more praise and public attention.
October 30th, 2006 at 10:03 pm
There’s definitely a way of dealing with future assaults and lesser shows of disrespect. Volunteers, patrol the streets with cameras or cellphones and take snapshots of these incidents! If they are as frequent as you say, soon you’ll have a photo-library of the perpetrators AND the cops who let it happen. Note the place and time of these incidents, interview the victims if possible. Set up a website and publish the photos. Invite the public, the Ministry of Interior and the police to view the website. Add new material every day and watch things happen. Simple enough, isn’t it?
On the matter of hijab, niqab and whatnot: Egypt is not the only sad example of Islamic sexual anarchy. Many European girls suffer the same or worse. In Norway alone, every year an average of 400 girls (predominantly white) are raped by young Muslim men. It has gone so far that a silly government official recommended that Norwegian women who live or work near the areas where these assaults happen should wear hijab for protection. The events in Egypt confirm that the veil is no protection whatsoever.
October 30th, 2006 at 10:06 pm
Eva: “Many European girls suffer the same or worse. In Norway alone, every year an average of 400 girls (predominantly white) are raped by young Muslim men. It has gone so far that a silly government official recommended that Norwegian women who live or work near the areas where these assaults happen should wear hijab for protection. The events in Egypt confirm that the veil is no protection whatsoever.”
Yep, it is just capitulation to sick bastards.
October 30th, 2006 at 10:33 pm
I am no fan of the Shariah law, but in this instance I am ready for a compromise, let the perpetrator’s of this horrible crime be tried in the regular courts and if, found guilty, be subjected to the punishment for rape under the Shariah. That, I think will be the best that you can give these women, who have already been through so much this Eid.
I disagree. I despise Shariah Law in all it’s forms. If the rapists are found guilty, let the secular laws punish him. Give him the death penalty. Shariah Law is not the only law system with the death penalty, you know.
October 30th, 2006 at 10:35 pm
Arab men need to have “group think” removed from their heads.
Mobs are the ultimate form of group think, and thoughtless mobs are just what radical islam needs to fester.
If this sort of thing were to start in Boise, Idaho, where I live, there would be 20 armed white boys shooting the bad guys down like dog. And we would probably all sleep in our own beds that night after being interviewed by the cops.
October 30th, 2006 at 11:30 pm
On my last trip to Egypt, I felt free to walk the streets of downtown Cairo by myself in the daytime to explore, despite protestations by my family, and went with a friend twice during the evening. I can’t really imagine something like that happening considering that most people I dealt with (before and during Ramadan) were considerate. I did leave the country feeling sad over many other things that are steadily deteriorating on the other hand. I disagree with the comment that Egypt was like that 50 years ago; neither in the cities nor in the countryside. Just about everyone I’ve spoken to or read for who lived during that time can attest to the change.
That said, this incident did immediately remind me of the 2000 Central Park riot. In the US, the police was also accused of watching and doing nothing while the women were being assaulted. The perpetrators were eventually convicted and several lawsuits were brought against the NYC police. One year later, several women were practically raped by a group of young men at a Seattle Mardis Gras. There are problems like these in the US; but they’re harder to sweep under the rug like the authorities do in Egypt.
October 30th, 2006 at 11:45 pm
25 years ago, my friend was almost raped while visiting the Pyramids with her mother. Luckily, she got away.
A second friend was at a resort about 12 years ago, and a man followed her into a bathroom. When she screamed, the police came and basically planted a gun on her, then arrested her. Fortunately, her dad was a bigwig who pulled some strings to get her out of jail.
Another female friend was travelling on an Egyptian train about 10 years ago when a man whipped it out and started masturbating in front of her.
Sorry, but I’ve always though of Egyptian men as pervs.
October 30th, 2006 at 11:56 pm
But on a related topic, here’s a question: Why don’t societies that prohibit extra-marital sex but have an oversupply of poor young males just promote homosexuality as a solution?
The men would get plenty of sex, the women wouldn’t be harassed, and everyone would be better off. The taboo against gay sex is screwing up supply and demand.
Discuss amongst yourselves!
October 31st, 2006 at 12:42 am
I’m a woman, I have daughters and I am not “above” hate either. I’m feeling so much of it right now.
I don’t have any other words except I am so sorry.
October 31st, 2006 at 12:56 am
Dear G-d.
* The perpetrators should be locked up.
* The police who let this happen should be fired and locked up.
* The shopkeepers who protected women against the mob should be honored.
* The mainstream media should be ashamed of itself.
October 31st, 2006 at 1:31 am
“The bloggers available downtown documented the whole thing”The POWER of the blogosphere! Fuck the MSM! Thank you SM, I would of course also never heard of this if not for you.
October 31st, 2006 at 1:57 am
Forcing yourself on a lady is just wrong. There does not need to be laws about it - it should just be common sense.
“Any egyptian man whose mother raised him right … ”
Agreed. What would your mothers think of you, those that particpated in this outrage?
October 31st, 2006 at 2:02 am
Smarty said: If this sort of thing were to start in Boise, Idaho, where I live, there would be 20 armed white boys shooting the bad guys down like dog. And we would probably all sleep in our own beds that night after being interviewed by the cops.
Unfortunately, I get the feeling that those “20 armed” boys would have been the ones treated as criminals in this situation.
October 31st, 2006 at 2:17 am
Frenzy is right Sam. This whole horrible thing is CAUSED by sexual repression.
Uh, how can you say that protectiveness towards women is a Middle Eastern quality??
It’s quite the opposite. Protectiveness towards women is a Western quality. Women in the ME are just tissues to be used up and thrown away.
October 31st, 2006 at 2:57 am
Sandmonkey,
Paying a woman’s way on a date is not just a Middle-Eastern trait, nor is being protective of women. It’s also American.
Or it used to be, back in the old days, when I was a youngster…
Thanks for this post.
October 31st, 2006 at 3:08 am
Rapists do not deserve to live.
What if the meat is uncovered? I mean, how are those good Islamic boys going to control themselves around uncovered meat? It could be prime rib, or a ribeye fergoodnessake!
October 31st, 2006 at 3:11 am
[...] Australian Imam Al-Halimi’s despicable remarks that Western women’s dress invites rape, would seem to suggest that in an Islamic country women are highly respected and protected, precisely because of the fact that are dressed more modestly by far than their Western sisters. Imagine my surprise and disgust therefore when I found the following on Rantings of a Sandmonkey The Sandmonkey is an Egyptian Muslim superblogger and here is what he writes: The Eid sexual harassment incident [...]
October 31st, 2006 at 3:19 am
Thank you for exposing this terrible incident, SM. It seems to be a universal problem, but perhaps not as crazy and done so openly as the incident in Egypt.. . . but just as bad. The US has a huge problem with violent crime–crimes against women, children, and innocent people. Rape is about violence, violating someone’s rights and body, and it has little or nothing to do with the clothing or attractiveness of the victim. I live in Austin, Texas, and a few years ago in a small town near here, an 85 year old woman was raped and murdered in the house she had lived in for fifty years. She rarely went out and was attacked in her little kitchen. An important question to ask is why the violent ideation in Egypt? Why the creation of violent sexual perpetrators in the US? When I took a course on criminality a few years ago, I read stats that one out of every 19 males in the US was a sociopath. I teach school in a tiny Texas town, and you cannot imagine the horrible situations that so many of my students live in and the violence in their homes and daily lives.
Sophia, I think that you are right when you say that this issue is caused by societal forces, but I don’t think repression. I would say more a lack of respect and value for women and others in general in the Egyptian society at this time. Not a problem unique to Egypt though.
It is sickening. I am extremely worried about the future of my country when I see the terrible problems daily in the school setting. Many of the students express violence, act on violence, are desperate for attention, and live in chaotic or cold, unwelcoming homes. They are not well-adjusted, and they are very prone to violence. I had students that laughed themselves sick when viewing the early reports of 9/11; they thought it was hilarious to see people dying. All of us who post do our parts by sharing our thoughts, feelings and ideas. We reach others and we can do our part to share the values of kindness and respect. I teach my students, yes, but my main goal is to be an example of calm and kindness at all times for my students and to try to influence them in a positive way. We can all do what we can. As for the so-called “news”. I get my news from the blogosphere. I do not want to read biased, fradulent reporting like you get from the BBC, Reuters, and most mainstream media. I am more interested in hearing what you all say in the comments section that some biased crap couched in “objective language” from some biased news reporter. I’ve have said far more than I meant to. I think that part of the answer is to promote values of kindness and respect, and I feel frustrated that there seems to be so little that I can actually accomplish. But perhaps collectively we can all make a difference. . . Shalom, lynne
October 31st, 2006 at 3:56 am
I’m dumbfounded; stunned - almost speechless. I saw BP’s little “rape” rant a few days ago but put it aside to “not understanding culture/humor” … I realize how wrong I was now.
This is indeed terrible. I see that “our” western media reports about the school bombing in Pakistan and how the clerics calls for uprisings against both the US and the Pakistan government because of it. NO mention of this tragedy anywhere. No reaction from religious leaders - I guess after all, it’s “just” women??
What kind of skewed mentality is this? Why does Islam seem so sex-fixated to us westerners? From Europe and Australia we see reports of gangs of young Muslim men raping white women, characterizing them as whores - this can’t be what Islam is about?? Why wouldn’t religious leaders step up and protect the most valuable thing we have in society - our women?
However, SM - it does scare me that you fall this easy to hatred. In the end, you would easily do the same thing as those you hate?? Why is that any better?
October 31st, 2006 at 4:46 am
I have never heard a better reason for riot police to run in with batons swinging but they just stood and watched? Excuse me while I throw up.
Australia was condemned for the Cronulla riots a while back but our police went in bravely, against in some instances overwhelming odds because to let innocent people be attacked was wrong. The police who let these rapes and assault continue without even trying to stop it are not men in my opinion. I can’t see how any man could stand by while this is happening; in this way I totally agree with SM. What Egypt needs is not this pretend respect that some of these Islamists are pushing but the true old time respect where women were respected and men had enough respect for themselves not to act worse than animals. I know a few old time cops who would have shown these rapists the errors of their ways and the would never be able to forget it.
This incident shows a society that has truly become sick and if people aren’t prepared to fix it then your country is heading straight to hell; be that in the religious sense of afterlife or the now sense of a place not worth living in.
October 31st, 2006 at 4:55 am
Kate in NYC
“But on a related topic, here’s a question: Why don’t societies that prohibit extra-marital sex but have an oversupply of poor young males just promote homosexuality as a solution?
The men would get plenty of sex, the women wouldn’t be harassed, and everyone would be better off. The taboo against gay sex is screwing up supply and demand.”
Are you trying to suggest that if men aren’t having sex then they are just going to go around raping? After SM post today I find it hard to defend men but from my own perspective no sex does not mean I need to go out and rape someone. I have more respect for women and myself to do such a sick and disgusting thing. What needs to be promoted is the old ideas of respect for women and yourself. Yes, I know I’m socially and religiously conservative and supposed this is what the Islamist blaming women for rape are but the men I know who follow their beliefs truly would never do what these animals have done nor could they stand by and let it happen.
October 31st, 2006 at 5:05 am
I hate to say this, but the true misogynists won’t be happy until women are completely annihilated. They’re not content to violate, rape and oppress us, I think they really want us dead.
October 31st, 2006 at 5:35 am
Please give me some perspective on this. I’m a 54 year old American Christian. Reading this I come away with the impression it’s tied into Islam (women/uncovered meat) and it’s treatment of women as second class citizens. I’m not one to reflexively jump on the, “Islam is an evil religion” bandwagon but it’s difficult not to see a connection here. I’d appreciate some feedback. Thank you.
October 31st, 2006 at 5:39 am
First I have to applaud Nawarah for being brave enough to bring it up on national TV and breach the silence in the media. Open discussion about this and hopefully outright disgust in all of Egypt is the only way to possibly prevent this in the future. I wouldn’t expect the police to change. We’ve all seen them and we all know they are worthless, but it is possible that public discussion about this and public outrage at the behavior of the men involved in the riots will lead to a type of social sanctioning against this behavior. And in the future more men will fight the mob mentally and stand up for what is right. Many of the other comments state that women should come together. No! It is the men that have to make this change. It is the men who need to talk about this to one another and agree that protection of women is not limited to their immediate family. Every single one of those men has a mother, a sister, an aunt and you know that had some other man assault their family member that they would fucking kill that guy. And if men can agree that these act are reprehensible then other men won’t do it.
The sad thing is, that I don’t have to see pictures to imagine what took place. I know the people that did this. I have seen them and that look in their eyes. I have the worthless fucking police on every corner. And what gives me hope is that I have seen the true men that are protective and respectiveful of women and the look in their eyes. The men that carry you to safety and are filled with embarisment of their fellow countryman. They are the ones who give me hope for Egypt.
You said that you were surprised by the silence of the media. Really? It seems par for the course. How much reporting came after the Dahab bombing? Other newspapers were reporting on the lack of response in the Egyptian press. Which is a shame because that bombing and the ones that preceeded it did more harm to Egypt and Islam than any fucking cartoon ever could and yet what do people really get worked up about. The people of Egypt will continue shrug off these damning events unless the media makes them face them for what they are worth.
Keep the discussion alive and the press honest. Nawarah, you are hero to all those that suffered that night!
October 31st, 2006 at 5:55 am
this is terrible, i cannot understand the culture who thinks women are nothing. i visited Egpt last year, we did have young men, serving the mandatory after school term, area with us, and they were armed, we never felt as if they would actually be needed though, the men we dealt with were very human and nice and respectable, every single one. The ony time i was a bit overwhelmed was the first day at the Bazzar, i can, now my picture of that day is mared with the vision of how it was on this day. i pray for the victims.
October 31st, 2006 at 6:09 am
Lynne @45 - Good heavens. What’s going on in your neck of the woods in Texas? Episodes like those you describe don’t happen anywhere near where I live on the West Coast, but I know there many pockets of this awful violence in parts of the inner city not far away. It’s a human problem, though, I do agree. Perhaps it’s best to focus on the “Human” aspect of it and less on the Man vs Woman. Laws, fairness, opportunity, striving for human kindness - basically, the Golden Rule, prevalent throughout all the best civilizations whether they be Chinese, Indian, Christian or Muslim. No hope, otherwise, for our sorry species.
October 31st, 2006 at 6:34 am
SM, I share your anger. These animals are the scum of the earth, but I dont agree with you on urging people to take the law into their own hands. The police MUST do their jobs. Also, I dont think anybody deserves to die. They are the lowest of the low, but what they deserve is to be behind bars, turning big rocks into small rocks.
October 31st, 2006 at 6:35 am
this story is made up.
October 31st, 2006 at 6:52 am
Okay I’m in class right now and I’m fasting but I couldn’t get my eyes to unglue themselves from the screen.
Dude this is FUCKED UP. Period! I’m speechless and I don’t know which is worse. Those horny bastards or the filthy fucked up police. Castrate them ALL OF THEM. No you know what. STONE THEM to DEATH!!!
Lynne @ 45 “I live in Austin, Texas, and a few years ago in a small town near here, an 85 year old woman was raped and murdered in the house she had lived in for fifty years.”
85 years old???!!! WTF!!? Are you serious!!! No wait excuse me for my language but ARE YOU REALLY SERIOUS??!!
I’m sick to my stomach and I swear to God if Australia doesn’t deport that asshole “cat meat” shithead then the all members of the Australian government should be castrated too. As for Egypt, Lord have mercy!! Sigh! VERY BIG Sigh!!
October 31st, 2006 at 6:56 am
The role of the MSM has been nothing short of shameless in this entire episode. I am yet to hear from any of the MSM even alluding to these “alleged atrocities”, going by their lingo. It is perhaps an instance of “Respect” that Galloway talks about.
Nawarah Negm needs to be praised for her courage in bringing this matter before the world and so should be Mona Al Shazly .
However, there is one question that goes unanswered in all this melee, does anybody, other than the victims and their relatives, even care to remember these events after the ‘novelty factor’ is exhausted. Several cases of sexual assault are forgotten after the initial outcry, only to return to prominence during the trial and the media frenzy that follows, to be forgotten once again.
Yesterday, the High Court in Delhi, India condemned a murderer and a rapist, after the trial court had acquitted him for lack of evidence. The story of the father of the victim is one of courage and I think would serve as a reminder to us all, that a responsible media makes the descend into complete anarchy, hopefully a distant dream.
Read more about the story here:-
http://expressindia.com/mattoo/
and read more about the conviction and sentencing here:-
http://www.ndtv.com/template/template.asp?template=mattoo
October 31st, 2006 at 6:58 am
The whole world is in a tailspin. This is an exceptional example but I could list dozens. Girl children are sold to tourists all over asia. Millions in the US waste their lives with drugs and the profits flow to al Queda and mafia kingpins. And on and on and on. Surely these are the Last Days. But most will not believe or see it. Finally in the end they will hide in caves and call the very rocks to fall on them and bury them. This earth will be wiped away and the meek shall inherit a new earth and a new heaven. When you see all these things … know that The Lord is indeed God of all and His Messiah shall reign over all. I know I know you scoff. Wait and see. If you live through the carnage to see it. You probably won’t.
October 31st, 2006 at 7:01 am
One more thing…
You know what sickens me the most SM and I think you’ve thought about it too. When people demonstrate peacefully, PEACEFULLY all police comes to beat the shit out of them but when something like this happens they stand and do NOTHING.
Ya7leelil Masr illi kunna binool 3aleha ummil dunia. Kulu min zibalat Mubarak wamsalhum ili3indina fil Sudan bardo… Allah yestor o yihawin yakhi… Di 7aga faswa o A7777a gidan ya3ni.
October 31st, 2006 at 7:48 am
Hey, “Sandmonkey”,
Youve certainly attracted quite a bunch of wackos here on this ‘matter’ in your comments. Now and then some of them even make some sense. But not often. I assume you’re used to airhead Westerners commenting on that which they do not understand, feminist ranters (ditto), religious nuts (ditto) and etc.
Just keep up the good work, and thank you. G]
October 31st, 2006 at 7:52 am
[...] This just made me sick! SICK! You know what’s absolutely disgusting though? You know what? I mean I can’t even comprehend it. When people protest peacefully PEACEFULLY, the police beats the shit out of them and breaks up their protest but when innocent women get attacked and sexually harrassed the police does NOTHING!! What kind of utter bullshit is this?! They’re disgusting animals that should be castrated and then stoned to death! Ya7leelik ya Masr. Akalooki o kharribooki. Matistahleesh abadan walahi! [...]
October 31st, 2006 at 8:15 am
Why not give us your excellent insights into what’s really going on, Gerry? You seem to be the only one on the blogosphere who understands it
October 31st, 2006 at 11:55 am
This is hirhaba.
We have gangs of young men wandering around in the street, looking for targets. We have policemen who know what’s going on, and know they are outnumbered. We have a government that does not want the tourism industry to be affected. —-
So why are the gangs there?
This could be a dress rehearsal, similar to the events leading up to Krystallnacht. This could be a threat, to Westerners, to the Egyptian government, to the uppity women (well, then it spread, predictably, to anything female, covered or not) and to the anti-jihady Neo-con American Right-wing Zionist Christian Imperialist Conspiracy in the Middle-east.
Who incited these riots? What was the source of this outpouring of anger and bitterness, especially toward women? There are names associated with the speeches, and specific locations. What we need is published translations or recordings of what’s being said in the local mosques. The mufsidoon can’t get away with this, if their words are exposed.
October 31st, 2006 at 11:55 am
C’mon Al jazeera, let’s hear from ye.
October 31st, 2006 at 12:01 pm
Drima, rape is more about violence than sex. The case of the 85 year old woman is not unique, as I have heard of many older women being raped. Just in the news last week in Austin, Texas, an 18 year old student ( a registered sex offender) tried to rape his unsuspecting 54 year old teacher in the classroom after school. (The state officials “forgot” to tell school officials that he was newly released from a juvenile facility and was dangerous.)
Men who commit these crimes are not “sex starved”; they are violent. Many are married and have girl friends and a steady supply of sex. It’s about violence.
In my opinion, this is not a men vs. women problem.
Most men are not violent or disrespectful or potential rapists! It is about atttitudes that develop due to forces in society. In the US, I feel sure that the absence of authentic role models, the influence of violence in the media, and other societal factors are creating the problem.
Bec, I have taught in several school settings in Austin. The incident of the glee and laughter about 9/11 occurred in a magnet school ( a mix of very bright kids and very poor, deprived inner city kids). It was the inner city poor kids, steeped in violence themselves, who thought the deaths in 9/11 to be so entertaining and funny. I am teaching now in a rural setting near Austin. Just last week one of the first graders was crying at school because his father killed his puppy in the backyard with a butcher knife because it vomitted in the house. Yesterday, one of my students talked about his mother’s death due to drug abuse. The kids see far too much violence. I see kids unsupervised, parents too focused on obtaining money and with little understanding of what children need in terms of a healthy home life, and children lacking basic parenting completely in some cases. In a way, I am surprised that it’s not worse here given the potential.
Bec, I do agree that the values of kindness, respect for human life, and the avoidance of violence should be emphasized everywhere, but that is unfortunately not the case. It seems that violence is actually encouraged by many, either directly as a solution or indirectly (through violent entertainment, for example).
SM, Drima, the police should have stopped this. For them to do nothing, is absolutely sickening.
October 31st, 2006 at 12:08 pm
Oh, I forgot to say:
Valerie, I think that you are on to something here. The media and the government do suppress news that might decrease tourism or create a bad impression. It seems that it is getting out of control.
October 31st, 2006 at 12:55 pm