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Monday, 18 Dec 2006
An excerpt of the court's press release on the Baha'is verdict (translated):
"As for Baha'ism, it is not one of the recognized heavenly religions, and who over follows it from the muslims will be considerd an apostate since its principles stand in opposion with the principles of the Islamic religion, plus the other heavenly religions. Furthermore, its believers have totally and utterly forbidden the islamic sharia sanctioned Jihad, for they wish to get the islamic nations to hand its neck to their executioners without any resistance, using idelaistic and romantic speeches to get everybody to agree to one global government, which is the one true aim of the Baha'i religion, and the secretive reason why they are supported by the imperialistic powers- old and new- which shelters them and defends their rights…"
I would like to point out again, for the record, in case this isn't clear, this is not the rambeling of some nutty conspiracy theorist, but rather the egyptian High court's LEGAL opinion and reasoning for rejecting the case the Baha'is filed for the recognition of their religion in the religion category on their ID's. This is what the judiciary, a branch of this "secular government" had to say about that.
Don't you just feel secure and comforted regarding the future of this country after reading that? It filled me up with all kinds of warm fuzzy feelings, let me tell ya!
December 18th, 2006 at 1:00 pm
Scary stuff!!!
“its believers have totally and utterly forbidden the islamic sharia sanctioned Jihad”
Hmmm, I think that goes for all other religions as well…
I wonder which “imperialistic powers” this court is reffering to…?!?!
The best thing, however, is this…
“to get everybody to agree to one global government, which is the one true aim of the Baha’i religion”
Oh, how horrible! Islam would never strive towards such a goal, no sir!!!
December 18th, 2006 at 1:26 pm
i find it strange that the jihadis would prefer that bahaais are labelled as muslims as opposed to them having a seperate category that they can be discriminated against based on! it’s pretty counterintuitive! u’d expect the MB to say ” these people don’t believe in jihad, therefore we will not tranish teh name of islam by giving it to them. let them be labelled like teh infidels they are!”
December 18th, 2006 at 1:35 pm
The baha’is are not asking for the Egyp+tian Government to recongnize their religion. They just ask for the same civil rights as any other Egyptian citizens.
There are ways the Egyptian Government can solve that without recognizing the Baha’i Faith.
December 18th, 2006 at 3:36 pm
I’m a Christian,but religious people make me want to puke. Religion is between a man and his maker. People that wear it on their sleeve have issues imo.
December 18th, 2006 at 3:59 pm
So um kahlil, in addition to being “educated” in California, is also a judge on the Egyptian high court?
December 18th, 2006 at 4:01 pm
“Religion is between a man and his maker. People that wear it on their sleeve have issues imo.”
And people who wear funny hats to show how religious they are have even more issues.
Never trust anyone who wears a funny hat or speaks in a strange voice.
December 18th, 2006 at 4:12 pm
Foolishness on earth. Heavenly religions???
Religion is a human thing. Allah/God has no use for it.
Fools on earth strutting around crowing their ignorance.
May they all meet their judgement soon.
December 18th, 2006 at 4:38 pm
Two words for you, Sandmonkey: Get out!
Uneducated, irrational extremists are inches away from power (if they’re not there yet). If you wait to leave, you might not be able to take your property with you. Make the plans now, because the establishment of the Islamic government will happen suddenly, and then it will be too late.
December 18th, 2006 at 4:40 pm
p.s. I make the same plea to any other rationalists stuck in the region - get out while you can.
December 18th, 2006 at 5:14 pm
Since it has been established by an ISLAMIC court that Bahai’i’s are “against” jihad and are obviously APOSTATES who are aiding the worldwide Zionist movement against Arabs…
We should round up the 2000 Bahai’is left in Egypt and KILL THEM!! Every single one of them - and their children!! That would solve the problem, wouldn’t it?
“Bahai’i is not one of the three Heavenly religions..”
LOL.
In FANATIC Egypt, there is only ONE “heavenly” religion. Guess what it is? Let’s not bull shit ourselves here!
F**K Egypt!! Really. It’s getting out of control!
December 18th, 2006 at 5:34 pm
Uh, exqueeze me. Why is there a “religion” section on ID cards?
Religion contributes to a person’s unique identity?
What color is the sky in Egypt?
December 18th, 2006 at 8:15 pm
Islam are the most intolerant religion in the world an will always be !!
December 18th, 2006 at 8:18 pm
To kate, the one telling people to get out!! Kate what do you know? you live there? NO. plus extremist religious people will have a very hard time taking power in Egypt…thats who the goverment fights against all the time.
December 18th, 2006 at 8:19 pm
Jews as Depicted in the Qur’an
Dear Sheikh! As-Salam `Alaykum. What, according to the Qur’an, are the main characteristics and qualities of Jews?
Answer:
In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
All thanks and praise are due to Allah and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.
Dear questioner, we are really pleased to have your question and we pray to Allah to make our humble efforts, exerted solely for His Sake, come up to your expectation.
As regards the question you posed, the following is the fatwa issued by Sheikh `Atiyyah Saqr, former Head of Al-Azhar Fatwa Committee, in which he states the following:
“The Qur’an has specified a considerable deal of its verses to talking about Jews, their personal qualities and characteristics. The Qur’anic description of Jews is quite impartial; praising them in some occasions where they deserve praise and condemning them in other occasions where they practice blameworthy acts. Yet, the latter occasions outnumbered the former, due to their bad qualities and the heinous acts they used to commit.
The Qur’an praises them on the verse that reads: “ And verily We gave the Children of Israel the Scripture and the Command and the Prophethood, and provided them with good things and favored them above (all) peoples.” (Al-Jathiyah:16) i.e. the peoples of their time.
Among the bad qualities they were characterized with are the following:
1. They used to fabricate things and falsely ascribe them to Allah. Allah Almighty says: “ That is because they say: We have no duty to the Gentiles. They speak a lie concerning Allah knowingly.” (Al-`Imran:75) Also: “The Jews say: Allah’s hand is fettered. Their hands are fettered and they are accursed for saying so. Nay, but both His hands are spread out wide in bounty. He bestoweth as He will.” (Al-Ma`idah:64)
In another verse Almighty Allah says: “Verily Allah heard the saying of those who said, (when asked for contributions to the war): “Allah, forsooth, is poor, and we are rich! We shall record their saying with their slaying of the Prophets wrongfully and We shall say: Taste ye the punishment of burning!” (Al-`Imran:181)
2. They love to listen to lies. Concerning this Allah says: “and of the Jews: listeners for the sake of falsehood, listeners on behalf of other folk” (Al-Ma’idah: 41)
3. Disobeying Almighty Allah and never observing His commands. Allah says: “And because of their breaking their covenant, We have cursed them and made hard their hearts.” (Al-Ma’idah: 13)
4. Disputing and quarreling. This is clear in the verse that reads: “Their Prophet said unto them: Lo! Allah hath raised up Saul to be a king for you. They said: How can he have kingdom over us when we are more deserving of the kingdom than he is, since he hath not been given wealth enough?” (Al-Baqarah: 247)
5. Hiding the truth and standing for misleading. This can be understood from the verse that reads: “…distort the Scripture with their tongues, that ye may think that what they say is from the Scripture, when it is not from the Scripture.” (Al-`Imran: 78)
6. Staging rebellion against the Prophets and rejecting their guidance. This is clear in the verse: “And when ye said: O Moses! We will not believe in thee till we see Allah plainly.” (Al-Baqarah: 55)
7. Hypocrisy. In a verse, we read: “And when they fall in with those who believe, they say: We believe; but when they go apart to their devils they declare: Lo! we are with you; verily we did but mock.” (Al-Baqarah: 14) In another verse, we read: “Enjoin ye righteousness upon mankind while ye yourselves forget (to practice it)? And ye are readers of the Scripture! Have ye then no sense?” (Al-Baqarah: 44)
8. Giving preference to their own interests over the rulings of religion and the dictates of truth. Allah says: “…when there cometh unto you a messenger (from Allah) with that which ye yourselves desire not, ye grow arrogant, and some ye disbelieve and some ye slay?” (Al-Baqarah: 87)
9. Wishing evil for people and trying to mislead them. This is clear in the verse that reads: “Many of the People of the Scripture long to make you disbelievers after your belief, through envy on their own account, after the truth hath become manifest unto them.” (Al-Baqarah: 109)
10. They feel pain to see others in happiness and are gleeful when others are afflicted with a calamity. This is clear in the verse that reads: “If a lucky chance befall you, it is evil unto them, and if disaster strike you they rejoice thereat.” (Al-`Imran:120)
11. They are known of their arrogance and haughtiness. They claimed to be the sons and of Allah and His beloved ones. Allah tells us about this in the verse that reads: “The Jews and Christians say: We are sons of Allah and His loved ones.” (Al-Ma’idah: 18)
12. Utilitarianism and opportunism are among their innate traits. This is clear in the verse that reads: “And of their taking usury when they were forbidden it, and of their devouring people’s wealth by false pretences.” (An-Nisa’: 161)
13. Their impoliteness and indecent way of speech is beyond description. Referring to this, the Qur’anic verse reads: “Some of those who are Jews change words from their context and say: “We hear and disobey; hear thou as one who heareth not” and “Listen to us!” distorting with their tongues and slandering religion. If they had said: “We hear and we obey; hear thou, and look at us” it had been better for them, and more upright. But Allah hath cursed them for their disbelief, so they believe not, save a few.” (An-Nisa’:46)
14. It is easy for them to slay people and kill innocents. Nothing in the world is dear to their hearts than shedding blood and murdering human beings. They never give up this trait even with the Messengers and the Prophets. Allah says: “…and slew the prophets wrongfully.” (Al-Baqarah: 61)
15. They are merciless and heartless. In this meaning, the Qur’anic verse explains: “Then, even after that, your hearts were hardened and became as rocks, or worse than rocks, for hardness.” (Al-Baqarah: 74)
16. They never keep their promises or fulfill their words. Almighty Allah says: “Is it ever so that when ye make a covenant a party of you set it aside? The truth is, most of them believe not.” (Al-Baqarah: 100)
17. They rush hurriedly to sins and compete in transgression. Allah says: “They restrained not one another from the wickedness they did. Verily evil was that they used to do!” (Al-MA’idah:79)
18. Cowardice and their love for this worldly life are their undisputable traits. To this, the Qur’an refers when saying: “Ye are more awful as a fear in their bosoms than Allah. That is because they are a folk who understand not. They will not fight against you in a body save in fortified villages or from behind walls. Their adversity among themselves is very great. Ye think of them as a whole whereas their hearts are divers.” (Al-Hashr:13-14) Allah Almighty also says: “And thou wilt find them greediest of mankind for life and (greedier) than the idolaters.” (Al-Baqarah:96)
19. Miserliness runs deep in their hearts. Describing this, the Qur’an states: “Or have they even a share in the Sovereignty? Then in that case, they would not give mankind even the speck on a date stone.” (An-Nisa’:53)
20. Distorting Divine Revelation and Allah’s Sacred Books. Allah says in this regard: “Therefore woe be unto those who write the Scripture with their hands anthem say, “This is from Allah,” that they may purchase a small gain therewith. Woe unto them for that their hands have written, and woe unto them for that they earn thereby.” (Al-Baqara: 79)
After this clear explanation, we would like to note that these are but some of the most famous traits of the Jews as described in the Qur’an. They have revolted against the Divine ordinances, distorted what has been revealed to them and invented new teachings which, they claimed, were much more better than what has been recorded in the Torah. It was for these traits that they found no warm reception in all countries where they tried to reside. Rather, they would either be driven out or live in isolation. It was Almighty Allah who placed on them His Wrath and made them den of humiliation due to their transgression. Almighty Allah told us that He’d send to them people who’d pour on them rain of severe punishment that would last till the Day of Resurrection. All this gives us glad tidings of the coming victory of Muslims over them once Muslims stick to strong faith and belief in Allah and adopt the modern means of technology.”
from Islam online
———–
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/12/17/nislam117.xml
December 18th, 2006 at 8:25 pm
There is only one god worth dying for and thats me. so shove it.
December 18th, 2006 at 8:32 pm
Your site used to click about every 30 seconds. I’m talking about the audible “refresh” type of click.
Now it’s every 4 seconds. It’s making your site unreadable. Did someone hack your page? It’s clicking away as I type. Anyone else seeing this?
December 18th, 2006 at 8:37 pm
Instead of going through all that crap, I would go for the opinion that encourages the taking out of the “religion” tag in Egyptian ID’s, that would solve the problem not only for Baha’is, but for Egyptian Buddhists, Athiests, Seikhs, Jews, Taoists, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, and any other Egyptian who wishes to convert from whatever religion s/he was born into to whatever other religion they like… I still didn’t get my national ID, and I don’t want Muslim written on it when I get it cuz my faith is none of the government’s business and just in case I ever decide to change my mind and adopt Tantra as a religion I would be able to without the government giving me all sorts of crap…
December 18th, 2006 at 8:37 pm
GOD. Good Orderly Direction. That’s not original but works for me. it’s like we all profess to believe in GOD…. Why can’t we agree to behave like the brothers and sisters we are? Oh well. If we all descended from Adam and Eve…well you know what happens when relatives procreate! Perhaps that’s humanity’s problem. I keep thinking one day we’ll wake up with some profound evolutionary insight and come together so we can have a really cool travel anywhere / meet everyone sort of fun time. Alas, it looks like it’s going to revolve around some major nuke blowing half the world away…then perhaps the remainder of humans will experience the “come together to survive” leap of evolution. Oh well. Gonna go play now, just in case that nuke’s sooner than later.
December 18th, 2006 at 9:06 pm
Brian the sailor, I don’t get any clicking on my computer.
December 18th, 2006 at 9:35 pm
Welcome to Egypt.
Good luck getting out when it becomes Islamo-land, SM.
December 18th, 2006 at 11:19 pm
A brief look at Baabism and Baha’ism
Question:
I would like to ask about Baabism and Baha’ism – what are their beliefs? And are they Muslims?.
Answer:
Praise be to Allaah.
Shaykh Ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) wrote a brief description of Baabism and Baha’ism, which we will quote here. He (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:
This is a brief description of Baabism and Baha’ism.
In their view, the word al-Baab (lit. “the Door”) refers to an ignorant Iranian individual who claimed to be a Sufi. His name was ‘Ali ibn Muhammad al-Shiraazi. He claimed that he was the door to Baha’-Allaah Mirza Husayn ‘Ali, and that he was the messenger to whom revelation came from Baha’.
The Baabis are named after him. Every time he was put under pressure and asked to repent, he repented from Baabism and claimed to be a Ja’fari, one of the Ithna-‘Ashari Shi’ah.
The Baabis held a conference one year in the desert of Dasht to announce their views and proclaim glad tidings of the awaited imam whom they claimed had appeared.
The Baabis are not all the same in their beliefs and view of the Baab, as is stated on p. 97 of the book al-Baha’iyyah Tareekhuha wa ‘Aqeedatuha wa Sillatuha bi’l-Baatiniyyah wa’l-Suhyooniyyah (Baha’ism, its History and Beliefs and its Connection with Esotericism and Zionism), by the head of the Ansaar al-Sunnah al-Muhammadiyyah organization in Egypt, Shaykh ‘Abd al-Rahmaan al-Wakeel (may Allaah have mercy on him).
In their conference there were two groups of Baabis, one of which was led by al-Bashroo’i and al-Quddoos, and the other by al-Baha’ and Qurrat al-‘Ayn, as it says on p. 98 of this book. Their gatherings were also of two types, one just for the imams (leaders) of Baabism and another for the common folk. The topic of discussion in gatherings of the leaders was Baabism’s abrogation of Islamic sharee’ah. Their ultimate view was that the Baab was greater and higher in status than all the Messengers, and that what was revealed to him of religion was more complete and more perfect than any previous revelation or religion.
As it says in pp. 99-100 of the book mentioned, Qurrat al-‘Ayn delivered a reprehensible speech in this conference when al-Bashroo’i and al-Quddoos were not present. Al-Baha’ was also absent, claiming that he was ill. He was worried about the consequences of her speech and waited to see the reaction of the delegates and whether they would reject her ideas or not. In her speech she clearly stated that the religion of Muhammad was completely abrogated by the new religion (Baha’ism) which had come to the ummah via the Baab, even though only a little of it had come so far and they were now in an interval. The ruling of Islamic sharee’ah no longer applied and it was permissible for the people – indeed prescribed for them – to share their wealth and women.
Al-Wakeel said that this was what was clearly stated by the Baha’i historian in his book al-Kawaakib al-Durriyyah (p. 180, 210). And she clearly stated in her speech that she did not believe in the resurrection.
This Qurrat al-‘Ayn was a strong proponent of their views. She issued a fatwa before she got in touch with al-Baha’, then when she got in touch with al-Baha’ she submitted to him and attributed the fatwa to him.
The Baabis carried out an armed terrorist movement in which they shed a great deal of blood and killed hundreds of people. The Iranian state opposed them and recruited troops to put an end to them, and they achieved that; they killed Baab al-Baab al-Bashroo’i and his companion al-Qudoos in 1265 AH, as stated in the book mentioned – the book of al-Wakeel – then the Shia’h scholars issued a fatwa stating that the Baab was a kaafir and an apostate, and deserved to be executed. The government ordered that he be executed and he was killed in front of the people; before that he was imprisoned in the citadel.
The Shi’ah scholars debated with him several times, and he was exposed and his ignorance and confusion were clearly demonstrated. Among the cleverest questions that were put to him was when he was asked about the defects in Islamic sharee’ah and about the perfection of that which he had brought, and he could not offer any answer, rather he could not even say a word. He was asked to deliver a speech and he delivered a worthless speech that did not deserve to be listened to. Hence the scholars ruled that he was a kaafir and should be executed, and he was executed.
Note: We stated above that the Baab in whom the Baha’is believe was the harbinger of al-Baha’ and he is the one who received revelation and conveyed it. So he is like a messenger for al-Baha’. The Baabis believe in al-Baab, who is ‘Ali ibn Muhammad al-Shiraazi, the ignorant Sufi who claimed that he was the most perfect human vessel in which the divine reality manifested itself, and that he was the one who created everything by his word. See p. 117. They also quoted him as saying: “On the day of Nooh, I was Nooh; on the day of Ibraaheem, I was Ibraaheem; on the day of Moosa, I was Moosa; on the day of ‘Eesa, I was ‘Eesa; on the day of Muhammad, I was Muhammad; and on the day of ‘Ali, I was ‘Ali … on the day when Allaah causes someone to prevail, I will be the one whom Allaah causes to prevail. I am the last one after whom there will be no one else and I am the first one before whom there was no one else. I am the manifestation of Allaah’s proof against the worlds.”
How ridiculous are these words that no wise person would utter. (Shar’at al-Baab, p. 119).
The Baab abolished the five daily prayers, Jumu’ah prayer and prayer in congregation, except in the case of the funeral prayer. He stated that purification from janaabah was not obligatory, and that the qiblah was the house in which he was born in Shiraaz, or the place where he was imprisoned, or the houses in which he and his followers lived. These are the places to which his followers were required to go on pilgrimage.
With regard to fasting, it was to be observed from sunrise to sunset, for one Baabi month which lasts for nineteen days. As for zakaah, it was one-fifth of one’s property, to be taken at the end of the year and handed over to the Baabi council. There are other ridiculous rulings which you can see on p. 120 of al-Wakeel’s book.
Baha’ism
As for al-Baha’, who is known as Baha’ al-Deen, he was Mirza Husayn ibn ‘Ali ibn al-Mirza ‘Abbaas Bazrak al-Maazandrani al-Noori al-Iraani. He was born in Tehran in 1233 AH and he was involved in Sufism all his life. He took his myths and stories from his Shaykhs. Then he moved to Baghdad from Tehran as a visitor or in exile, then he moved frequently from Baghdad to other places, then he moved to ‘Akka for political reasons and ulterior motives, and because of the many disputes between his Baabi followers and the followers of his brother, Yahya ibn ‘Ali ibn Mirza. After all of that and after many developments, al-Baha’ made the following claims (see p. 143 of al-Wakeel’s book). At first al-Baha’ claimed that he was the successor (khaleefah) of the Baab, or the last successor of al-qaa’im (i.e., the hidden Imam); then he claimed that he was the qaa’im himself. Then he claimed to be a Prophet, then he claimed to be divine and that the divine reality only existed in its most perfect form when embodied in him.
Death of al-Baha’
When he was in the prime of his strength and his call was at its strongest, Allaah caused him to develop a fever, from which he died when he was believing in his false claims and ridiculous myths. He died in Dhu’l-Qa’dah 1309 AH. See p. 144 of the essay and footnotes of Abu’l-Fadaa’il. Abu’l-Fadaa’il was one of the propagators of the false sect of al-Baha’.
Al-Baha’s methods of propagating his views
He was a Sufi who relied on allusions, symbols and jargon. See p. 147 of al-Wakeel’s book.
His books
The most famous of them are al-Ayqaan and al-Aqdas. He wrote the former in Baghdad; it deals with proving that the Baab was the Mahdi and al-qaa’im. It refers to the claims of al-Baha’. He wrote this book in response to questions about the Baab. In this book al-Baha’ acknowledged that he was sinning by writing this book. How strange are the actions and evil deeds of this criminal. Glory be to Allaah, how great He is: He insisted that these criminals and liars should fail in their words and deeds. To Allaah be praise for the clarity of the truth and the failure of falsehood. See p. 150 of al-Wakeel’s book.
Baha’is hatred towards Muslims
Al-Mirza did not hate any community as much as he hated the ummah of the Final Messenger. It is sufficient for you to know that he accused the earlier and later generations of not having understood anything of the Qur’aan, and he said: “One thousand, two hundred and eight years have passed since the Qur’aan appeared and all these riffraff recite it every morning and until now they have not understood a single letter of its meaning.” Then al-Baha’ says: “The one who does not drink from our sealed nectar, the seal of which we have broken with our name al-qayyoom has not grasped the light of Tawheed, and he does not know the meaning of the Books of Allaah, and he is one of the mushrikeen.”
Note:
In this summary about the Baabis and Baha’is, I have not seen any words that you cannot find in the book of al-Wakeel. It should be noted that some of it comes from the book of Dr Muhammad Mahdi Khaan al-Irani al- Tabreezi, who lived in Egypt, which is called Miftaah Baab al-Abwaab. Some of it was taken from articles written by Muhibb al-Deen al-Khateeb about Baabism and Baha’ism, and some of it is my own words. And Allaah is the Source of strength. May Allaah send blessings and peace upon our Prophet Muhammad and his family and companions. End quote.
Majmoo’ Fataawa al-Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Baaz (7/407-412).
Shaykh Ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) also issued another fatwa stating that the Baha’is are kaafirs. He was asked about the views of Baha’-Allaah who claimed to be a Prophet, and also claimed that Allaah was incarnated in him. Is it permissible for the Muslims to bury these kaafirs in the Muslim graveyards?
He replied:
If the beliefs of the Baha’is are as you say, then undoubtedly they are kaafirs and it is not permissible to bury them in the Muslim graveyards, because anyone who claims to be a Prophet after our Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is a liar and a disbeliever according to the texts of sharee’ah and the consensus of the Muslims, and because this is disbelief in the words of Allaah (interpretation of the meaning):
“Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Messenger of Allaah and the last (end) of the Prophets”
[al-Ahzaab 33:40]
And because there are mutawaatir reports from the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) stating that he is the Seal of the Prophets and there is no Prophet after him. Similarly the one who claims that Allaah is incarnated in him or in any other creature is a kaafir according to the consensus of the Muslims, because Allaah, may He be glorified, is not incarnated in any of His creatures; rather He is greater and mightier than that. Whoever believes that is a kaafir according to the consensus of the Muslims, and he is denying the verses and ahaadeeth that say that Allaah is above the Throne, and He is above all His creation. He, may He be glorified, is the Most High, the Great and there is none like unto Him or comparable to Him. He described Himself to His slaves as follows (interpretation of the meaning):
“Indeed, your Lord is Allaah, Who created the heavens and the earth in Six Days, and then He rose over (Istawa) the Throne (really in a manner that suits His Majesty)”
[al-A’raaf 7:54]
End quote.
Majmoo’ Fataawa al-Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Baaz (13/169).
Islam Q&A
December 19th, 2006 at 12:10 am
What are supposed to be the heavenly religions? I know that throughout history there have been those who claimed to have been to heaven. Most, if not all, were nut cases and one even claimed that the world was flat. I would think that a heavenly view of earth would show that it was not flat. Thus that man was nothing but another bull shiter.
December 19th, 2006 at 12:52 am
Please explain to me why the Egyptian government needs to know a person’s religion. What the hell does that have to do with anything? I don’t understand it. I agree with the previous poster. This should not be about about recognizing an other religion, but instead demanding to know why people must be categorized in the first place. How does a person’s faith impact the rights of the citizen to services, taxation, and representation from the government?
I read earlier this year that Pakistan considered dropping the religion category from their passports. The Islamic fanatics over there went ape shit over such a blasphemous idea.
December 19th, 2006 at 1:33 am
I think all normal people should quit Egypt if you can, see you are so close to the situation you can not see past your nose how close they are, in turning your land upside down and inside out and smash up all the pyramids sphinxes and statues.
Ancient stuff like that belongs to the world we own it every man woman child, when the Muslims start smashing up the place expect the world to be pissed, I imagine we nasty west would drop a few big ones on the mongrels when they start, that’s why you should get out.
I still haven forgiven the taliban in Afghanistan for blowing up that huge budda, many men much time blood and love to carve out and the mugs blew it up, all human achievement will be destroyed by Muslims.
Just remember Britton signed a peace treaty with Germany and promised not to do war with each other, a week or so later the Germans invaded Poland.
Hitler was great mates with the Muslim brother hood, who are responsible for all the Islamic mess, a hang over from Hitler who never went away.
Islam knows it has to destroy our past in order to be our future, and if you don’t get out get organised, blessed be.
Thankfully we are not a tolerant population of Ignorant infidels, we jump up and down at the slightest hint of Islamic happenings in my country, our 2% wont achieve much here.
The radicals try to have a go, but we just laugh in their faces with great pleasure.
My be you should have look at what destruction the Indonesian Muslims have achieved with the demolition of ancient buildings, usually non indos do this, the Indonesian population is suppose to be Muslim, many pretend to be Muslim because they like living. http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20726085-2703,00.html
I will never vote for any Muslim for any party for anything in the world, even if the Muslim means well, he can and will be manipulated by Muftis and radicals, he is a risk I will never take and many Australians are the same N,S,E,W. of my sun burnt land. All Muslims have achieved in Australia is turning the lazy couch potato in to a political man, who will stand and defend what we built!.
The other thing I have noticed racism is dying, as people see we have a lot in common because we are westernised. its an us & them thing now.
I don’t trust Muslims as far as I can throw them and would not be very far. I would trust a rattle snake before trusting them. Our Nasty little Mufti is Egyptian and noooooooo one but the radicals like him.
He is in Egypt now probably getting off on all this.
And can any one tell me how did he get away with stealing from Egypt? he was arrested, he took off back here, the charges where dropped, bit shifty in my books love to know the real truth about who he paid off.
December 19th, 2006 at 2:09 am
Actually, the constant clicking is quite audible and enervating. Anyone else has the same problem?
December 19th, 2006 at 2:35 am
“I would like to point out again, for the record, in case this isn’t clear, this is not the rambeling of some nutty conspiracy theorist, but rather the egyptian High court’s LEGAL opinion and reasoning ”
I feel your pain. It’s ugly when insane people get to be in charge. I don’t think this is a “Muslim” problem, it’s a “stupid humans” problem. Same trouble more or less in my hometown (in the US) and few or no Muslims here so can’t blame them, eh?
Eva: no, I don’t get the clicking.
December 19th, 2006 at 2:39 am
Isis, I agree with your reasonable and spirited comment!
December 19th, 2006 at 2:48 am
idelaistic and romantic speeches to get everybody to agree to one global government
Islam don’t like American left wing moonbats ;->
December 19th, 2006 at 3:02 am
“[F]or they wish to get the islamic nations to hand its neck to their executioners without any resistance, using idelaistic and romantic speeches to get everybody to agree to one global government…”
Replace “islamic” with “non-Muslim” in the above text, and you get an accurate summary of Islam’s apologists.
December 19th, 2006 at 7:26 am
Well in order to say something positive… I was pleased that the court rejected a “global government”, because I think that the rest of the world is up to their eyeballs in crazies, whereas my country is only up to their knees.
December 19th, 2006 at 7:55 am
In March of this year, four White Christian British youth from Worcestershire, England tortured, burned, and physically assaulted a young woman for four hours in an apartment.
The victim, who had learning disabilities was “battered with a chair and foot-rest….forced to drink a glass containing urine and cigarette butts and made to eat chilli powde….Her hair and head were burnt when two aerosols were converted into “flame-throwers”.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/hereford/worcs/6191437.stm
Several months before, a video was being dessimated on the Web showing Iraqi children being beaten by British soldiers:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5866432585690527292&q=beating+british
This violence didn’t emerge out of a vacuum.
December 19th, 2006 at 9:37 am
|–using idelaistic and romantic speeches to get everybody to agree to one global |–government, which is the one true aim of the Baha’i religion
Well, when you put it THAT way it really does sound ominous.
December 19th, 2006 at 12:53 pm
Furthermore, its believers have totally and utterly forbidden the islamic sharia sanctioned Jihad, for they wish to get the islamic nations to hand its neck to their executioners without any resistance, using idelaistic and romantic speeches to get everybody to agree to one global government, which is the one true aim of the
Baha’i religionLions Club, and the secretive reason why they are supported by the imperialistic powers- old and new- which shelters them and defends their rights…”December 19th, 2006 at 3:32 pm
This comment comes in response to ahmad’s comment (comment 21).
First of all, allow me to congratulate you on having here quoted those materials – it shows dedication.
I thought of what things I could say to try and establish the non-factuality of some of the things quoted in your comment. It soon became clear to me that quoting from the Bahá’í Scriptures or from Bahá’í authors would not be valid, since you most rightfully believe them to be false. While proving to be somewhat of a challenge to me, I will try to reply using what one may consider to be “historical facts”. I will not address every single subject referred to in your post – for I lack the knowledge and time to do so.
-You quoted:
“The Baabis are named after [the Báb]. Every time he was put under pressure and asked to repent, he repented from Baabism and claimed to be a Ja’fari, one of the Ithna-‘Ashari Shi’ah.”
The execution of the Báb in itself came as a result of His lack of denial of being a Prophet of God. How could He have even been executed if He was someone who would’ve “repented from Baabism and claimed to be a Ja’fari”? Indeed, isn’t execution the greatest form of being “put under pressure”?
-You quoted:
“The Baabis carried out an armed terrorist movement in which they shed a great deal of blood and killed hundreds of people.”
In the Answers.com encyclopaedia (topic: Bábism) one can read:
“[Former Professor of Islamic Studies Denis] MacEoin has pointed out that the Bábís did arm themselves, upon the Báb’s instructions, but that they did so only in a defensive manner, and not an offensive jihad.”
-Your comment includes:
«They also quoted him [Báb] as saying: “On the day of Nooh, I was Nooh; on the day of Ibraaheem, I was Ibraaheem; on the day of Moosa, I was Moosa; on the day of ‘Eesa, I was ‘Eesa; on the day of Muhammad, I was Muhammad; and on the day of ‘Ali, I was ‘Ali … on the day when Allaah causes someone to prevail, I will be the one whom Allaah causes to prevail. I am the last one after whom there will be no one else and I am the first one before whom there was no one else. I am the manifestation of Allaah’s proof against the worlds.”»
This is wholly incorrect. Below is the authenticated quote, this one indeed by the Báb:
“In the time of the First Manifestation the Primal Will appeared in Adam; in the day of Noah It became known in Noah; in the day of Abraham in Him; and so in the day of Moses; the day of Jesus; the day of Muhammad, the Apostle of God; the day of the ‘Point of the Bayan’ [Báb]; the day of Him Whom God shall make manifest [Bahá’u’lláh]; and the day of the One Who will appear after Him Whom God shall make manifest. Hence the inner meaning of the words uttered by the Apostle of God [Muhammad], ‘I am all the Prophets’, inasmuch as what shineth resplendent in each one of Them hath been and will ever remain the one and the same sun.”
-You quoted:
“(…) he [Bahá’u’lláh] moved to ‘Akka for political reasons and ulterior motives”
In the Answers.com encyclopaedia (topic: Bahá’u’lláh) one can read:
“Although not a formal prisoner yet, the forced exile from Baghdad was the beginning of a long process which would gradually move him [Bahá’u’lláh] into further exiles and eventually the penal colony of Akka.”
-You quoted:
“he [Bahá’u’lláh] claimed to be divine and that the divine reality only existed in its most perfect form when embodied in him.”
Bahá’u’lláh has written much on what one can deem to be the “dual station” of the Messengers of God. Muhammad Himself, the Apostle of God, has also written on this subject:
“Manifold are Our relationships with God. At one time, We are He Himself, and He is We Ourself. At another He is that He is, and We are that We are.” (Muslim tradition)
To quote only one instance of Bahá’u’lláh’s Writings on this subject:
“When I contemplate, O my God, the relationship that bindeth me to Thee, I am moved to proclaim to all created things ‘verily I am God!’; and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!”
For more on the subject of the dual nature of the Manifestations of God, see Vol I. of Taherzadeh, The Revelation of Bahá’u’lláh.
-Regarding the passing from this world of Bahá’u’lláh, you quoted that this happened when “he was in the prime of his strength”. In response to this I would like to add that His passing came when He had lived 75 years of persecution, exile, and imprisonment.
-You quoted:
“Al-Mirza did not hate any community as much as he hated the ummah of the Final Messenger.”
The demonstration of the falseness of this statement can be no other than the immensity of the beautiful and moving texts Bahá’u’lláh has written in praise and glorification of Muhammad. If I may add to this, there is a famous event during which one of the followers of Bahá’u’lláh so ably establishes the truth of Muhammad to a Christian missionary that this missionary asks him to stop, saying “we will never submit to Muhammad!”
To finish this long comment, dear ahmad, if I may, I would like to suggest you would yourself investigate the claims you have quoted, and the Bahá’í principles. If you come to recognize validity in them, surely Allah knows what is in your heart. If such an investigation does nothing but intensify your opinion that the Bahá’í religion is a false one, surely Allah knows what is in your heart.
I am available to continue similar debates (as long as they are respectful and englightening) via email
December 19th, 2006 at 10:25 pm
Actually, the constant clicking is quite audible and enervating. Anyone else has the same problem?
Yup, quite annoing when multiple browserwindows are open. Just turn your volume down to zero, thats what I do.
December 19th, 2006 at 10:26 pm
The first two lines of the above post were supposed to be a quotation, don’t know what happened.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:18 am
Remove the god damn religion category off the national ID card. Whats the point in having it there in the first place other than to be able to discriminate and reverse discriminate against one another? Does someone’s releigious belieft help identify one person from another for any good reason other than the one i mentioned?
July 26th, 2007 at 6:20 am
Hi ! all,
I really feel very bad bcoz people are making so confusion to a simple concept. Those peopie who try proove that thier religion is superior than others religions, they forget that the region of god is for all mankind not for a perticular group or continent. The source of all rligion is one true god.
” The religion of god is for love and unity, don’t make it the cause of Enmity and Discord.”
I think now in the world the main problem is religious conflict, where as the aim of the religion is some thing else. So its better to live peacefully with out religion.