Hillary vs. Obama

It is getting ugly!

0 comment on Hillary vs. Obama

  1. HeiGou
    January 20, 2007 at 2:15 pm

    It is also looking deceitful. Since when does a “predominantly” Muslim school equal a madrassa? All schools in Indonesia, outside Bali and bits of the Molukus, are predominantly Muslim. That is because the population is. State schools are. What does “predominantly” mean? Let’s say 80 percent. Who made up the other 20 percent? Well obviously non-Muslims. How many madrassa have any percentage of non-Muslim students? If his school wasn’t 100 percent Muslim, it was not a madrassa. It was a state-run school and presumably secular. I bet Sandmonkey went to a predominantly Muslim school.

    Doesn’t follow he is an Islamist.

    Reply
  2. James F. Trumm
    January 20, 2007 at 2:34 pm

    Republican Senator (and Presidential hopeful) Sam Brownback’s membership in a secretive group of Hitler-loving theocrats is considerably scarier than where Obama went to first grade.

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  3. Twosret
    January 20, 2007 at 3:55 pm

    Hillary as a former first lady didn’t learn in the White house anything about the constitution. Whether Obama went to muslim school or not this doesn’t deprive him the opportunity to be a president. Plus,what kind of a job Obama is applying for?

    I thought the war was on Terror not Islam. Obama converted to Christianity a long time ago so what is the big deal? Obviously the racism in America will never stop as it is well rooted.

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  4. lynne
    January 20, 2007 at 4:04 pm

    I do not know much about Obama yet, but he seems to be a very decent person. Also, Islam does NOT equal terrorist!

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  5. HeiGou
    January 20, 2007 at 4:12 pm

    Twosret Says:”Hillary as a former first lady didn’t learn in the White house anything about the constitution. Whether Obama went to muslim school or not this doesn’t deprive him the opportunity to be a president. Plus,what kind of a job Obama is applying for?”

    In law, no. But it will sure as hell influence the voters and that is entirely constitutional and right.

    Twosret Says:”I thought the war was on Terror not Islam.”

    Oh go on. You don’t believe that.

    Twosret Says:”Obama converted to Christianity a long time ago so what is the big deal? Obviously the racism in America will never stop as it is well rooted.”

    What racism? Islam is not a race.

    lynne Says:”I do not know much about Obama yet, but he seems to be a very decent person. Also, Islam does NOT equal terrorist!”

    No but these days pretty much terrorist equals Muslim. If there were no Muslims in the world, there’d be next to no terrorism. Or honour killings.

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  6. Perry
    January 20, 2007 at 5:16 pm

    Bottom line….Nobody named Hussein,or Yitzak for that matter, will ever be elected President.

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  7. Drima @ The SudaneseThinker
    January 20, 2007 at 5:20 pm

    “No but these days pretty much terrorist equals Muslim. If there were no Muslims in the world, there’d be next to no terrorism. Or honour killings.”

    Mmmm… honour killings?!

    A lot of honour killings happen in many non-Muslim Asian cultures too you know.

    Anyways, let’s not make this whole Hillary VS Obama thingy complicated.

    They’re politicians. Hillary feels threatened in my opinion and the dirt digging has already started. That’s what opponents do when it comes to elections. So… what’s the big deal?

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  8. Andrea
    January 20, 2007 at 5:38 pm

    Sadly I have to leave sleepy Canada next month for a six-month consulting gig in the United States. I hate the ridiculous mud-slinging that passes for political discourse down there. Its like a circus sideshow freak display of ignorance. Obama has spent his life fighting for the poor and oppressed, which from my reading of the Bible is what Christians were asked to do by Jesus. I have spent my life on my career – wish I was more like Obama. Who am I to question his integrity? I think he is a role model and wish there were more people who were willing to speak for the poor and downtrodden of the world. Obama’s foreign policy would focus on Darfur, the AIDS epidemic, third-world debt relief and hopefully less on protecting America’s strategic economic interests. I would think that an Obama presidency would see an quick and dramatic drop in the rise of Islamic fundamentalism.

    Its impossible to fight a war on terror. Better to win the hearts of those who are vulnerable to the pull of terrorism.

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  9. Drima @ The SudaneseThinker
    January 20, 2007 at 5:55 pm

    “Its impossible to fight a war on terror. Better to win the hearts of those who are vulnerable to the pull of terrorism.”

    I understand your views well Andrea but why not do both? We can’t just put down our weapons… I say fight and try to win vulnerable hearts at the same time as difficult as that maybe.

    =)

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  10. Perry
    January 20, 2007 at 5:58 pm

    “Better to win the hearts of those who are vulnerable to the pull of terrorism.”

    5% of the worlds population are sociopaths. No moral qualms whatsoever. Many will be drawn to ideologies like wahhabism,like Richard Ramirez was drawn to Satanism. For someone like Zarqawi,terrorizing as many as possible was a wet dream come true. Countries like Canada can duck until it’s all over. Others,like the U.S. and Britain,can make their soldiers prominent targets. Or,we could all get together and pressure Saudi Arabia to modify its ideology,which has only gotten more viscious since Abdullah came to power.

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  11. D.B Shobrawy
    January 20, 2007 at 6:00 pm

    This is shameless specifically because its an attemt to use American bigotry and ignorance as a weapon against the competition.

    I’ve always been confused by the use of the word Madrassa in the Media, specifically because in arabic any school before college is called a madrassa, it simply means school! Would any arabs who went to a “madrassa” as a child please raise your hands? Wow, I see alot of hands.

    Ignorance is a bitch!

    P.S. What I also find shameful is the lack of clarification by the media reporting to say what a madrassa is as well as not clarifying that Barak Obama is a Christian, lol. However with a middle name like Hussein I would be confused too, lol

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  12. Andrea
    January 20, 2007 at 6:10 pm

    Drima…
    I am quite European in outlook, but yet my Canadian side comes out in that I always think that pluralism and multicultural understanding and fighting for justice will triumph over evil :) But I know that evil does exist and must be fought. My grandparents lived under Nazi occupation in The Netherlands. I certainly haven’t figured it all out yet.

    I do know that wars that are sold as a fight for freedom but are really about preserving western strategic interests have no chance of accomplishing anything.

    Perry – We Canucks are starting to pull our own weight in Afghanistan, you know. We have good soldiers but a pretty anemic military infrastructure. I support attempts to help the Afghani people.

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  13. mike
    January 20, 2007 at 6:30 pm

    Obama is going to get crushed by the Clintons. Get ready for the Chicago issues to start showing up in right-wing magazines.

    “So are you a muslim or a christian or what?”

    “Do you still use cocaine?”

    “What, besides the audacity of your hope, would lead you to believe that you are even qualified for the job?”

    Reply
  14. Perry
    January 20, 2007 at 6:37 pm

    Neither of the above. But,it will be a democrat. Edwards maybe..

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  15. Twosret
    January 20, 2007 at 7:18 pm

    “No but these days pretty much terrorist equals Muslim. If there were no Muslims in the world, there’d be next to no terrorism. Or honour killings.”

    I will not reply to all your quotes but this one is a masterpiece and it shows clearly how you look at Muslims and Islam. Ignorance is a bitch! right on D.B Shobrawy.

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  16. Twosret
    January 20, 2007 at 7:20 pm

    “Obama is going to get crushed by the Clintons.”

    And may I ask where Clinton got his millions from?

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  17. ella
    January 20, 2007 at 7:28 pm

    HeiGou

    If as the article says “Mr. Obama, 45, spent at least four years in a so-called Madrassa, or Muslim seminary, in Indonesia.” and if it is true that he later converted to christianity, then in my view he should be commended for courage and his opponents will get mud in their face. On the other hand if he went to madrassa (not to mixed christian-muslim school) than he is in trouble. I prefer to wait and see before I can made my opinion on this piece of news.

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  18. ella
    January 20, 2007 at 7:31 pm

    ups. read “if he went to madrassa (not to mixed christian-muslim school) being nominaly a christian than he is in trouble”

    Reply
  19. Craig
    January 20, 2007 at 7:36 pm

    HeiGou,

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madrasah

    The word “madrasah” also exists in many Arabic-influenced languages such as Urdu, Hindi, Persian, Turkish, Kurdish, Indonesian, Malaysian and Bosnian. In the Arabic language, the word مدرسة implies no sense other than that which the word school represents in the English language, such as private, public or parochial school, as well as for any primary or secondary school whether Muslim, non-Muslim or secular.

    Madrasah is the appropriate word. If you want to argue that the school was only “predominantly muslim” and didn’t have an Islamic curriculum of any kind, you’ll have to present some evidence of that. Or maybe Obama himself will. I personally am not willing to accept his characterization about this, anymore. I’d like to see some actual evidence. Maybe he wasn’t raised Muslim, but was just born Muslim, as he says. But it’s not looking that way, to me.

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  20. Craig
    January 20, 2007 at 7:41 pm

    Twosret,

    Hillary as a former first lady didn’t learn in the White house anything about the constitution. Whether Obama went to muslim school or not this doesn’t deprive him the opportunity to be a president.

    You are accusing Hillary of violating his constitutional rights, now?

    Seems Hillary is not the one with no understanding of the US Constitution.

    Plus,what kind of a job Obama is applying for?

    Most powerful person in the world. The one who makes life and death decisions involving millions of people.

    I thought the war was on Terror not Islam. Obama converted to Christianity a long time ago so what is the big deal?

    The big deal is that according to him, he never converted, because he was never Muslim.

    Obviously the racism in America will never stop as it is well rooted.

    So says the racist.

    Reply
  21. ella
    January 20, 2007 at 7:51 pm

    Craig

    I do not follow closely what US politicians say but if what you wrote is true i.e. “he says he never converted, because he was never Muslim.” it seems that something may stink here.
    Nevertheless it is better to wait and see. US politics is quite vicious so it is better to wait for details.

    Reply
  22. Craig
    January 20, 2007 at 7:51 pm

    Andrea, you keep saying you don’t stereotype people and that you aren’t anti-American, or anti-anything else, and how open minded you are and blah blah blah, and then you come out with crap like this:

    I hate the ridiculous mud-slinging that passes for political discourse down there. Its like a circus sideshow freak display of ignorance.

    What’s your deal? Are you really that intellectually dishonest? Or are you deliberately talking out of both sides of your mouth? You’ve incorrectly stereotyped me, personally, 4 or 5 times on this blog. I have no idea how often you’ve done it to others, but I’m guessing it’s not a rare thing with you, at all. Pretty shitty behavior from somebody who claims to be a champion of the people. What people? All people? Or only people that need your patronage?

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  23. Craig
    January 20, 2007 at 7:53 pm

    ella,

    Nevertheless it is better to wait and see. US politics is quite vicious so it is better to wait for details.

    Yes. I agree. I spent several hours Googling Obama yesterday and ended up with nothing but a lot of questions. I’m waiting to see what his response will be.

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  24. Stephen
    January 20, 2007 at 9:01 pm

    According to the article Obama returned to the US at the age of 10, so if he did go to a madrassa in Indonesia it was until that age at most. And that means he was a Muslim? At that age I expect I believed in Santa Claus.

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  25. Dominic
    January 20, 2007 at 9:19 pm

    lynne Says:
    January 20th, 2007 at 4:04 pm
    I do not know much about Obama yet, but he seems to be a very decent person. Also, Islam does NOT equal terrorist!

    Well Lynne, Islam does equal terrorism to me, 89% of the world’s conflicts involve Islam and muslims,I can’t think of one country that is muslim that boarders a non-muslim country and lives in peace

    Reply
  26. Roman Kalik
    January 20, 2007 at 9:27 pm

    Politicians lie to get votes, politicians sling mud to get votes, Twosret goes into Total Bias mode…

    So what *else* is new?

    Reply
  27. Twosret
    January 20, 2007 at 9:32 pm

    Heigou,

    Every single school in Egypt or the Middle East is called Madrassa it simply means school in Arabic. Even the British school I attended in Egypt is called Madrassa. By law every school even the British, French, private or public ones has to have a religion curriculum for both Christians and Muslims (I’m not sure about the German school but SM can clarify that since he attended one)

    The word Madrassa used in Indonesia, Pakistan, Thailand and non-speaking arabic Islamic world is different. It is to educate children to become clerics it is a seminary. Most of the Madrassas of that kind is supported by mainly Saudi Arabia and they adopt the wahabi faith which is a rigid Islam.

    To understand Madrassa practice you need to understand that there are many factors that plays role in their teachings and behaviors. The war in Afghanistan influenced the practice of Madrassas to a more extreme Islam. Saudi Arabia is a big supporter to those Madrassas that unfortunately turned into a hub of extremism and not under the control of Sheiks or Imams and doesn’t follow the basic knowledge of Islam, some of them are taught hate and violence.

    Did Obama attend any of those Madrassa’s? we don’t know was he taught in a extreme wahabi one? I don’t think so. Simply because you don’t go out of these Madrassa’s adopting Christianity. He was very young and I don’t think he was taught any violence or hate. He also attended Catholic schools so I really believe that this is a dirty tactic from Clinton and yes she is racist too.

    Reply
  28. Lydia Sizer
    January 20, 2007 at 9:33 pm

    Hello, my name is Lydia Sizer and I am working on a thesis through Brown University in the United States looking at blogs. I am looking at how blogs affect mutual understanding among people of different ethnic backgrounds and I was wondering if you would be willing to take a survey I have prepared for my research. This research would give you a voice in determining whether blogs would be useful in aiding global security and counteracting racism. If you are interested, don’t hesitate to email me at Lydia_Sizer@brown.edu. Thank you so much for your time. For convenience, please enter “thesis survey” as the subject of your email as I will not know who is writing to me. Thanks again! In addition, you will receive an email later from lscello@aol.com. This is because my school email is routed through my home email. Thanks!

    –Lydia Sizer

    Reply
  29. Twosret
    January 20, 2007 at 9:38 pm

    Roman Kalik,

    stop your childish behavior, my opinion and sentiment were shared by other posters who posted before and after me. Both Obama and Clinton are democrats, I will have to vote for one of them and it will not be Clinton for sure, this is just the start of the election and there will be more to evaluate in the next two years.

    I never said I will vote for Obama, I oppose the racial, religious discrimination period! so don’t single me out and give us more of your political insight instead of personal attacks.

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  30. Twosret
    January 20, 2007 at 9:41 pm

    As for the people who are saying that Islam=Terrorism. I would like to point out that in America every 3 minutes a woman is sexually assaulted. America most common faith is Christianity so if we follow your “logic” then Christianity=Sexual assaults.

    How ridiculous that is!

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  31. nomad
    January 20, 2007 at 10:02 pm

    Twosret,
    you made an error : in France only private schools can provide a religious knoledge, in public or state, all religion signs are forbiden

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  32. Twosret
    January 20, 2007 at 10:03 pm

    Nomad,

    I was referring to french schools in Egypt not in France. I Know for sure that french schools in Egypt will have to provide religion classes by law Muslim and Christian.

    Reply
  33. Roman Kalik
    January 20, 2007 at 10:56 pm

    Twosret,

    The problem with Obama is not him being a Muslim or not in the past, but rather the possibility that he lied about it. I myself like Obama more than Hillary, but I also expect at least a semblance of honesty from politicians.

    As for my assessment of your reaction, perhaps it was overtly based on previous cases where you allowed emotion to cloud your judgement, rather than on the matter at hand. I apologize.

    Reply
  34. Andrea
    January 21, 2007 at 12:06 am

    Craig -

    Sorry if you feel I am not giving your ideas due respect and consideration and that I am unfairly labelling you. Your ideas do seem somewhat cliched sometimes, but I did make a vow to listen to others more in 2007. Maybe I’ll practise by actually listening to you.

    Overall I am somewhat annoying, it cannot be denied. Sometimes I annoy myself several times before breakfast.

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  35. Chip
    January 21, 2007 at 12:42 am

    Well this would be a great chance for Obama to come to the defense of Muslims who are facing death for apostasy, but it will probably become just another mud-slinging cluster fuck.

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  36. Louise
    January 21, 2007 at 2:14 am

    Andrea: “Sadly I have to leave sleepy Canada next month for a six-month consulting gig in the United States. I hate the ridiculous mud-slinging that passes for political discourse down there. Its like a circus sideshow freak display of ignorance.”

    Oh dear. You have been sleeping. Haven’t you been hearing the truckloads of mud-slinging coming from the left against Stephen Harper and the Conservatives. They (the left) are positively hysterical.

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  37. ella
    January 21, 2007 at 2:30 am

    Louise

    Andrea probably voted for the Right-to-Rule party i.e Liberals (as you so well named them on the other egyptian blog) and may think that mud slinging should only be done by the libs and anyway it is not a mud slinging but “telling the truth about your opponent” ;-)

    Reply
  38. ella
    January 21, 2007 at 2:38 am

    p.s. the above does not mean that the other parties did not do some “telling the truth” themselves.(I count also one party which does not count i.e. NDP)

    Reply
  39. Louise
    January 21, 2007 at 2:44 am

    I suspect you’re right ella. There is a certain aire of self-righteousness among the supporters of Canada’s Natural Governing Party that simply cannot be suppressed, no matter how excruciatingly hard they try.

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  40. Perry
    January 21, 2007 at 2:52 am

    He converted from Islam and lived to talk about it? Yeah,right…

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  41. Twosret
    January 21, 2007 at 4:22 am

    “but rather the possibility that he lied about it”

    Where did he lie about it? if you google Obama you will find people calling him drug addict and having an affair with an intern and blah blah blah. All what I know that he might have not mentioned it in his memoir or something in that affect. I’m sure he will reply to the accusations.

    The American people wanted to impeach Clinton and they didn’t because he lied about Monica. The American people are not impeaching Bush despite the fact that he LIED big time. There is no honesty in Politics.

    I mean seriously man Clinton the wife of Bill is talking about lies :)

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  42. deprived
    January 21, 2007 at 4:38 am

    …”And may I ask where Clinton got his millions from?”…

    Big donations from the likes of saudis.

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  43. deprived
    January 21, 2007 at 4:40 am

    He gets a quarter mill to a half mill for each speech he makes to slam his own president, people, and country.
    And Hollywood. And his book that said nothing.

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  44. deprived
    January 21, 2007 at 4:46 am

    It is only going to get uglier with Hillary behind the dirt digging. It was Hillary that was behind digging the dirt on each woman Bubba either had an affair with or fondled.
    And the media gives her a pass. From studying Marxism for six years to Whitewater to travelgate to claiming no knowledge of fraud her 2000 campaign manager went to prison over. I hope she missteps in her derailing of Obama and that he gets the nomination.

    Reply
  45. deprived
    January 21, 2007 at 5:05 am

    #8 Andrea said
    …..”Obama has spent his life fighting for the poor and oppressed, which from my reading of the Bible is what Christians were asked to do by Jesus. I have spent my life on my career – wish I was more like Obama”….

    Can you please back that statement up with fact? Where has he done any such thing? Point to one piece of legislation he has authored?

    ….”I think he is a role model and wish there were more people who were willing to speak for the poor and downtrodden of the world.”…

    What about the little babies that survive abortion that he voted against getting any medical help for? You really need to reach a little higher for a hero.

    ….”Obama’s foreign policy would focus on Darfur, the AIDS epidemic, third-world debt relief and hopefully less on protecting America’s strategic economic interests. “….

    Why doesn’t the rest of the world help fix Darfur? Why did Clinton and everyone else look the other way in Rwanda? We are already in the forefront in AIDS and debt relief and third world aid. How much does Canada give or any other appeaseniks…oh wait…they have too much invested in entitlement programs for themselves that are collapsing. When will you learn communism never works. And why would a president of any country compromise his own country’s interests? Are you smoking crack?

    …”I would think that an Obama presidency would see an quick and dramatic drop in the rise of Islamic fundamentalism.”…

    Honey, you are completely nuts. You need to read the koran, then the history of mohammed, then the history of the middle east and then pay attention to the news other than your government lefty controlled airways. Islamic radicalism is everywhere. Do you think if Obama is elected, the Saudis will allow any churches to be built or let the people they import to do their dirty work to worship with each other? Will the copts in Egypt be accepted and treated humanely? How about the Christians in Lebanon? How about Indonesia? What about Chechnya? Is the US responsible for all of that? Or you just pissed that they lifted the rock off of the nasty stuff and made the world have a look. Because if you see, you might have to do something about it.

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  46. BrooklynJon
    January 21, 2007 at 5:28 am

    Andrea
    “Sadly I have to leave sleepy Canada next month for a six-month consulting gig in the United States.”

    Yeah, we’re not so thrilled about it either down here.

    Two,

    Clinton wasn’t impeached because he lied. He was impeached because he committed purgery. Lying is clearly not considered a “High Crime and Misdemeanor” in politics, and never has been. Purgery, OTOH, is generally considered far worse by fair minded people. And, to head the vitriol off at the pass, I speak as someone who voted for Bill twice. BTW, how the hell are you doing, Two. I miss struggling to keep my cool as I disagree vehemently (but respectfully) with you.

    bj

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  47. Cut snake
    January 21, 2007 at 5:44 am

    It is an indisputable fact Twosret , these days , most acts of terrorism are performed by psycho Muslims.

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  48. Jason
    January 21, 2007 at 6:01 am

    “How much does Canada give or any other appeaseniks…oh wait…they have too much invested in entitlement programs for themselves that are collapsing.
    When will you learn communism never works.”

    Riiiiiiiiiiiight. Canada is Communism. Doh. All my life, born and raised, and until this very SECOND, never knew. Stop smoking that crack ignoramus.

    This would all be moot, if only Oprah would toss her hat in. Can’t beat both the black AND the woman cards. Just think, Dr Phil could be VP. LOL

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  49. Twosret
    January 21, 2007 at 6:02 am

    “Big donations from the likes of saudis.”

    Bush’s last name is Saudi what are you talking about? :)

    BJ

    let me explain, What I was trying to say that the American people wanted to impeach Clinton for lying about Monica, I think he should have been punished for using public office for ummmm for lack of better words screwing around :). He did a good Job in general and I will vote for him too but he disrespected and dishonored his presidency by doing what he did. If he did it in private it would have been a totally different story.

    Having said that, it is a puzzle for me why people are silent about Bush when he lied about Iraq when 3,000 soldiers died so far. What Bush did is far more damage to the country than Clinton. So back to Obama it is so disgusting to hear someone like Hillary who obviously used all this to her benefit. An opportunist indeed!

    I miss struggling with you too :) real life is keeping me super busy. I have to keep up with my duties. Are you still enjoying your Kosher pizza in Brooklyn ;)

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  50. John D K
    January 21, 2007 at 6:08 am

    *Get* ugly? Heck fire, didn’t you ever see that picture of Hillary in a bathing suit?

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  51. Chip
    January 21, 2007 at 6:13 am

    Obama’s foreign policy would focus on Darfur

    Oh, that’s rich. I missed that.

    Obama is going to stand up to the Chinese and put troops in a Saudi-backed Islamist nation? Can’t wait to see that. Oh, no troops? Then nothing will get done. It’s like trying to “Free Tibet” on the weight of all the bumper stickers.

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  52. Twosret
    January 21, 2007 at 6:18 am

    Oh Perry,

    Last time I saw Bush kissing it was the cheek of the Saudi King. The Saudi’s are here a long time ago check the money markets, you must be new to this.

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  53. BrooklynJon
    January 21, 2007 at 6:20 am

    Two,

    Enjoying it a little too much, I fear.

    I agree with everything you said abt Bill. I was not entirely sure it was worth impeaching a president over, but I also think his hijinks in the Oval Office were an affront to the country.

    I think there has also been no shortage of comment about what Bush said about Iraq. Personally, while it is clear that Bushie has been wrong about a number of things about Iraq, it is less clear to me that he was wrong on purpose. Sure there were no weapons there…but it seems that Saddam’s generals each thought there were. Good chance Saddam thought there were also. In any event, there were clearly plans afoot to reconstitute the WMD programs as soon as sanctions were lifted.

    Whatever…I don’t mean to rekindle the whole argument. I agree that reasonable people could reasonably have been on either side of that war. I just wish it were ending better for both the Iraqi people and for the troops in harm’s way.

    And I’m just not sure what Bill saw in Monica.

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  54. BrooklynJon
    January 21, 2007 at 6:24 am

    Jason,

    Oprah could win if and only if she could convince GM to give a car to every voter. Otherwise she’s stuck being a mega-zillionaire on TV. Poor her.

    Reply
  55. BrooklynJon
    January 21, 2007 at 7:20 am

    Not my type, Two, ovals or no ovals.

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  56. Craig
    January 21, 2007 at 7:27 am

    Twosret,

    let me explain, What I was trying to say that the American people wanted to impeach Clinton for lying about Monica

    Clinton WAS impeached. However, he wasn’t convicted.

    Two U.S. presidents have been impeached: Andrew Johnson, the seventeenth chief executive, and William J. Clinton, the forty-second.

    Still brushing up on US history, I see. Did you even live in the US then? You seem to be associating yourself with America dating back even to before you lived here.

    I think he should have been punished for using public office for ummmm for lack of better words screwing around :) .

    You are right. If I got caught having sex with a subordinate in my office, I’d probably go to prison for it. Especially if I had a history of asking for sexual favors from my subordinates. I guess the normal rules don’t apply to William Jefferson Clinton.

    By the way, of course Hillary and Bill are both racists. They are Anglo-Saxons. Jefferson, Clinton, And Rodham are all Anglo-Saxon surnames. Why bother making a case?

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  57. Drima @ The SudaneseThinker
    January 21, 2007 at 7:32 am

    Dominic,

    “Well Lynne, Islam does equal terrorism to me, 89% of the world’s conflicts involve Islam and muslims,I can’t think of one country that is muslim that boarders a non-muslim country and lives in peace”

    Ya now that’s some real retarded shyte right there! If you want to say most of the terrorism today is caused by Muslim extremists, then fine but to equate it with Islam is utter garbage dude. Blowing up innocent women and children is against the teachings of Islam and against the ethics of the lesser Jihad. Therefore terrorism is NOT equal to Islam.

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  58. HeiGou
    January 21, 2007 at 8:52 am

    Drima @ The SudaneseThinker Says:”Mmmm… honour killings?! A lot of honour killings happen in many non-Muslim Asian cultures too you know.”

    Well no they don’t. They happen, to some extent, in non-Muslim cultures that have been strongly influenced by Islam. This is simply the exception that proves the rule. Honor killings happen in North India, but much less so in South India. The Muslims not getting that far for long.

    Drima @ The SudaneseThinker Says:”Ya now that’s some real retarded shyte right there! If you want to say most of the terrorism today is caused by Muslim extremists, then fine but to equate it with Islam is utter garbage dude. Blowing up innocent women and children is against the teachings of Islam and against the ethics of the lesser Jihad. Therefore terrorism is NOT equal to Islam.”

    Look I don’t buy the Islam=terrorism line, but this is disingenuous at best. You may think that blowing people up is against Islam but the assholes who do it do not think it is. Islam is their motivation, their cause, their reason for doing what they are doing. They do it because they think it is Islamic and they are perfectly capable of producing logical Quranic-based reasons for what they are doing. You may not agree, most Muslims may not agree (although I doubt it), but that is not important. What matters is what the Quran says and what the suicide bombers think the Quran says. Also, of course, almost every non-Muslim country with a Muslim population has a terrorism problem which tends to take the same forms – beheadings, bombings often suicide bombing, kidnappings etc etc. It can’t be a coincidence – or at least at a certain point most people would tend to think it is not a coincidence. Do they all attend Jihadi school together or do they perhaps all read the same text book?

    Reply
  59. HeiGou
    January 21, 2007 at 8:59 am

    Twosret Says:”I will not reply to all your quotes but this one is a masterpiece and it shows clearly how you look at Muslims and Islam. Ignorance is a bitch! right on D.B Shobrawy.”

    More than happy to oblige. But at least I, and no one like me, blows up children in night clubs. That is really a bitch ain’t it?

    ella Says:”If as the article says “Mr. Obama, 45, spent at least four years in a so-called Madrassa, or Muslim seminary, in Indonesia.” and if it is true that he later converted to christianity, then in my view he should be commended for courage and his opponents will get mud in their face. On the other hand if he went to madrassa (not to mixed christian-muslim school) than he is in trouble. I prefer to wait and see before I can made my opinion on this piece of news.”

    Except Obama has only admitted to attending a predominantly Muslim school. The word “madrassa” is being thrown around by the media and, I assume, comes from Hilary’s camp. My point is that you cannot assume that a school in Indonesia with a majority of Muslim students *is* a madrassa. However as a child he was undoubtedly raised to be a Muslim and he is probably now a Christian (or more likely he worships the Baal that is Ambition lkike the rest of them). All I am saying is let’s not leap to judgement on the school issue.

    Craig Says:”Madrasah is the appropriate word.”

    Well not really. If it was just a school then Hillary ought to have translated it as “school” because these days madrassa has all sorts of connotations in English which may not be applicable. What she wants to imply, I assume, is that he went to one of those places that churns out the Taliban.

    Craig Says:”If you want to argue that the school was only “predominantly muslim” and didn’t have an Islamic curriculum of any kind, you’ll have to present some evidence of that. Or maybe Obama himself will.”

    Predominantly Muslim was his phrase I believe. I do not want to argue that his school was secular, I do not want to fall into Hillary’s trap of assuming that because he went to a school, and possibly a secular one at that, in Indonesia he is a Talib. The fact that no one is *naming* the school suggests it was not a madrassa in the Taliban-sense but an ordinary school.

    Reply
  60. Craig
    January 21, 2007 at 10:04 am

    HeiGou,

    What she wants to imply, I assume, is that he went to one of those places that churns out the Taliban.

    That would be a foolish thing to be implying, since those schools didn’t show up til the 1980s. We’re talking about 1962 to 1970, here.

    In any case, I’m not so sure I’m even willing to buy into the idea that there is (or was) such a thing as a secular “predominantly Muslim” school in a country like Indonesia. Indonesia was a hotbed of Islamic unrest in the 1960s when Barak Obama was living there.

    The Renville Agreement marked the low point of republican fortunes. The Dutch, moreover, were not the only threat. In western Java in 1948, an Islamic mystic named Kartosuwirjo, with the support of kyai and others, established a breakaway regime called the Indonesian Islamic State (Negara Islam Indonesia), better known as Darul Islam (from the Arabic, dar-al-Islam, house or country of Islam), a political movement committed to the establishment of a Muslim theocracy. Kartosuwirjo and his followers stirred the cauldron of local unrest in West Java until he was captured and executed in 1962.

    1962. That’s the year 2 year old Barak Obama’s family moved to Indonesia. And that’s only one of many rebel movements in Indonesia in the 1960s.

    Sukarno was named president for life in 1966. He enjoyed mass support for his policies, but a growing power struggle between the military and the PKI loomed over his government. After an attempted military coup was put down by army chief of staff, General Suharto, and officers loyal to him, Suharto’s forces killed hundreds of thousands of suspected Communists in a massive purge aimed at undermining Sukarno’s rule.

    1966. Barak Obama was 6 years old, and just entering his first (?) year in a Madrassa, when that happened. Suharto took over the government a year later, in 1967.

    Sukarno’s advocacy of a unitary, secular state, however, collided with Muslim aspirations. An agreement, known as the Jakarta Charter, was reached in which the state was based on belief in one God and required Muslims to follow the sharia (in Indonesian, syariah–Islamic law; see Glossary).

    Indonesia was under Sharia law the entire time that Barak Obama lived there, HeiGou. And it was a hotbed of political and religious unrest, the whole time, too. Best guess – was Barak Obama’s “predominantly muslim” school ‘secular’ ?

    It’s possible, I suppose… I will be interested to see what his response to these allegations is. I’m still a bit suspicious about the idea that his mother (an atheist) managed to marry not one but TWO muslim men, in three years. In Hawaii. In the the late 50s and early 60s. She must have had the market cornered on Muslim husbands, in Hawaii, in those days. There’s something wrong with that picture.

    But what I really want to know is what Religion Barak Obama was before he converted to Christianity, which seems to have been about 1990. I believe he was almost undoubtedly a Muslim when he was 10 in Indonesia… but what religion was he when he was 25? Or 30?

    And the other question I want answered is why he’s been blowing so much smoke up everyone’s ass about this. He could have said “It’s a personal matter, and it’s nobodies business but mine” or he could have been completely upfront about everything. Either would have been fine with me. But as it is, it looks a lot like he’s trying to hide something, and his past statements (vague and fuzzy as they are) were meant to deceive.

    Reply
  61. nomad
    January 21, 2007 at 10:46 am

    the Clinton’s Monika affair would not had appeared in France, those things are considerate private ; that doesn’t empech someone to conduct politic well :D

    as for Obama, could it be possibly that he converted into christian religious for pursuing a politic carrer ? that makes him a pragmatic in a reputed christian country

    Reply
  62. HeiGou
    January 21, 2007 at 11:47 am

    Craig Says:”That would be a foolish thing to be implying, since those schools didn’t show up til the 1980s. We’re talking about 1962 to 1970, here.”

    Sure but remember Lyndon Johnson saying he wanted his aides to accuse an opponent of f**king a pig? Hillary, presumably, needs the Jewish vote and to look tough on Terror. And smear Obama as well.

    Craig Says:”In any case, I’m not so sure I’m even willing to buy into the idea that there is (or was) such a thing as a secular “predominantly Muslim” school in a country like Indonesia. Indonesia was a hotbed of Islamic unrest in the 1960s when Barak Obama was living there.”

    Well “hotbed”? Really? It was also a time of Communist unrest too. A lot of people were getting upset about a lot of things. Indonesia is more or less a secular country and the school system is secular.

    Craig Says:”1962. That’s the year 2 year old Barak Obama’s family moved to Indonesia. And that’s only one of many rebel movements in Indonesia in the 1960s.”

    But only in West Java. Where did he move to?

    Craig Says:”Sukarno’s advocacy of a unitary, secular state, however, collided with Muslim aspirations. An agreement, known as the Jakarta Charter, was reached in which the state was based on belief in one God and required Muslims to follow the sharia (in Indonesian, syariah–Islamic law; see Glossary).

    Craig Says:”Indonesia was under Sharia law the entire time that Barak Obama lived there, HeiGou. And it was a hotbed of political and religious unrest, the whole time, too. Best guess – was Barak Obama’s “predominantly muslim” school ’secular’ ?”

    Well no. This is the usual “sharia for family law” approach common to most Muslim countries. Sharia is not implemented in Indonesia and even Muslim law is strongly influenced by paganism – which is not being replaced by the Wahabis. So Indonesia has never been under Sharia. Secular nationalists have had to compromise with the Islamists, who exist in moderate (and usually traditional) and extremist form. Genuinely moderate form in the case of Indonesia – not like CAIR. It is a lot more complex than Indonesia being under Sharia. No hand chopping. No stonings. No honour killings even.

    We need to find out more about which school Obama went to.

    Craig Says:”I’m still a bit suspicious about the idea that his mother (an atheist) managed to marry not one but TWO muslim men, in three years. In Hawaii. In the the late 50s and early 60s. She must have had the market cornered on Muslim husbands, in Hawaii, in those days. There’s something wrong with that picture.”

    Well Islam was all the rage in the 60s among ignorant hippies. Anything that wasn’t Protestantism. Look at, say, Frank Herbert’s Dune. She does seem to have had an interest in pissing her parents off doesn’t she?

    Craig Says:”But what I really want to know is what Religion Barak Obama was before he converted to Christianity, which seems to have been about 1990. I believe he was almost undoubtedly a Muslim when he was 10 in Indonesia… but what religion was he when he was 25? Or 30?”

    That is an excellent question. Was he circumcised and if so when? I know that is not your usual question, but Muslims traditionally do it around the onset of puberty – say 12-14. So too early for him to have had it done in Indnoesia. American Christians tend to do it about the same time as Jess – eight days. So when he came back was he circumcised and if not, when did he get it done? I’d pay good money to see someone, preferably older and Jewish and female, ask him that question!

    Reply
  63. Roman Kalik
    January 21, 2007 at 12:35 pm

    “I mean seriously man Clinton the wife of Bill is talking about lies”

    Well yes, she’s a politician Twosret. The purest embodiment of hypocrisy. Politicians have no morals. I’m afraid though, that Obama will not turn out any better.

    Reply
  64. Louise
    January 21, 2007 at 1:07 pm

    18. Perry: “Countries like Canada can duck until it’s all over. ,like the U.S. and Britain,can make their soldiers prominent targets.”

    Hmmmm. Read much, Perry? CNDS bearing brunt of coalition casualties. Or is it just that too much pap from the American MSM has dulled your mind?

    http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1124038789297_40/?hub=TopStories“>Canadian Troops Return to Friendly Fire Site

    Quote: “Earlier this year, the names of the four dead Canadians were engraved in a granite block in Fort Campbell, Ky., part of the 187th Infantry Regiment’s memorial honouring Americans who have died in conflicts dating to the Second World War.”

    This Canadian knows that not all Americans are jerks like you.

    Reply
  65. Louise
    January 21, 2007 at 1:35 pm

    That should be “Others, like the U.S.”

    Screwed up the second link. too. Doesn’t matter, though. Perry is still a jerk.

    Reply
  66. lynne
    January 21, 2007 at 5:34 pm

    Twosret, I agree. There ARE Islamic terrorists, but that does not make all terrorists Islamic. Have people forgotten that right here in the US, Timothy McVeigh blew of up federal building for crazy, misguided reasons—stemming form his horrible childhood no doubt, where he never learned to think normally. Whatever he was, he was NOT a Muslim. There are a lot of crazy people in this world who are a threat to all of us, but is incorrect and unreasonable to blame this on Muslims. I am Jewish, and I assure you that I certainly do not.
    I think that we all agree that violence and terrorism are intolerable. That is the message that I’d like to see go viral over the blogsphere. Be great if people would push the concept of good will and caring for others–in spite of our differences.

    Reply
  67. HeiGou
    January 21, 2007 at 6:07 pm

    lynne Says:”There ARE Islamic terrorists, but that does not make all terrorists Islamic. Have people forgotten that right here in the US, Timothy McVeigh blew of up federal building for crazy, misguided reasons—stemming form his horrible childhood no doubt, where he never learned to think normally. Whatever he was, he was NOT a Muslim. There are a lot of crazy people in this world who are a threat to all of us, but is incorrect and unreasonable to blame this on Muslims. I am Jewish, and I assure you that I certainly do not.
    I think that we all agree that violence and terrorism are intolerable. That is the message that I’d like to see go viral over the blogsphere. Be great if people would push the concept of good will and caring for others–in spite of our differences.”

    Well the McVeigh case is an interesting one, but I tell you what, you add up all the people killed by Christian terrorists in the US over the last, say, 10 years and I’ll add up all the ones killed by Muslims. Which one do you think will not only be greater but probably at leats ten times greater despite Christians making up, what?, 95 percent? of the American population and Muslims about 2. As for Islam=Terrorism, I do not think all Muslims are terrorists. Not by a long shot. But I do think most of the world’s terrorists are Muslims, have been for some time and whats is more they seem to study the same books because they perform similar acts of terror – beheadings for instance.

    You claim we all think terrorism is unacceptable. Well that is nice and I am sure all us Westerners do. However the Pew center keeps turning out studies which show the majority of Muslims in the Middle East have no problems with terrorism. I bet some Muslims here have no problems with terrorism whatever they say in public. If they did, it wouldn’t happen. I am all for good will and caring. However that cannot be, forever, a one-way street.

    Reply
  68. lynne
    January 21, 2007 at 6:36 pm

    HeiGou, I agree that acceptance of terrorism has taken hold of a large group of Muslims the world over, but I see that viewpoint denounced by Muslims, too. We cannot blame all Muslims for the actions of some members of that group. It is not only unfair, but inaccurate to do so.
    Looking at the world problems–everything from disputes to crime–is quite distressing. Something is needed to counteract the violence and hatred that is so prevalent today.
    I teach school, and (from this experience) I will say that I have very serious concerns about the ability of the majority of people in the world to think clearly at all. People need guidance from leaders such as Gandhi and Martin Luther King—from their writings and their examples. We are desperate for examples of goodness and virtue. The problems in the world make me despair.

    Reply
  69. Louise
    January 21, 2007 at 7:02 pm

    # 70 Heigou. Your rebuttal to Lynne is vallient but pointless. Lynne references the standard fallback Timothy McVeigh. This is getting to be very tiresome and it’s time someone enlightened people like her. So, here is something you might want to use the next time someone invokes McVeigh’s name. List of Islamic Terror Attacks for the last 3 months. Get your scroll button lubricated. It’s gonna be a long job. At the bottom of the list are links to periods of time prior to 3 months ago. It’s staggering, mindblowing stark raving madness, but there are still so many sweet young things in the West as well as middle aged witches and opportunist (AKA Democrats and the like) who pretend it isn’t what it so obviously is.

    Oh, and I might as well say it. Timothy McVeigh did not draw upon passages from the Bible, nor did he shout God is Great or any of the other standard trademakes the Islamofacists are wont to do when blowing up innocents. He was not out to conquer the world and turn everyone into either a Christian or a splattered corpse. He did not have a mass following, nor did his choice of methodolgy garner large donations and support from countries headed by theocrats and dictators .

    On the contrary, his motivation was much narrower in focus and he was seen largely as a loner, loser misfit type rather than a heroic martyr. He was caught, tried and convicted. There was no movement that survived him. The analogy is patently stupid and says far more about those who make it than anything possibly could.

    Reply
  70. ella
    January 21, 2007 at 7:31 pm

    HeyGou

    You did not check education in Indonesia.
    It seems that “normal” school in Indonesia is called “sekolah” The islamic schools are called madrasas (Ibtidiyah,Tsanawiyah and Aliyah) some of these islamic schools are also called pesantren and most pesantren provide dormitory for students. The pesantren and madrasas offer formal education curriculum plus study of koran, islamic law and islamic history). Therefore madrassas and pesantren are for people whose religion is Islam and they are not mixed.

    Reply
  71. Michele
    January 21, 2007 at 7:49 pm

    I think that the most interesting part of this story is not what Obama has been accused of (ie. lying about his past) but the fact that he’s had a pretty smooth ride so far. It seems to be a given that he is a valid candidate for president even though he has limited political experience. Much more experienced politicians (ie. Hillary) will challenge him and seeing the gloves come off so early is not exactly a good sign.

    He’s going to have trouble on this issue because he kind of admitted to what school he attended but not completely. People will naturally ask what is he hiding and why is he hiding it. Isn’t it always better to be the one doing the disclosure rather than being on the defensive and responding to a disclosure?

    Reply
  72. lynne
    January 21, 2007 at 7:58 pm

    Louise, your points are well-taken. I agree with much of what you said I just don’t want to blame all Muslims for the actions of others in their group. Muslims are not the first group to employee terrorist tactics and to use (and warp) religious ideology to fit their purpose. There are other fanatical groups now and were in the past. The prevalence of terrorism and justification for it within the Muslim community is quite frightening. I also agree that those who advocate terrorism and hatred should not be placated—it simply won’t work; it emboldens them and makes matters much worse (as in the UK, for example).
    One of my points about Timothy McVeigh is that he was a misfit—and so are others who embrace a philosophy of hatred and violence. Something is wrong with them! They are not right-thinking people. Normal people focus on home, family, and living good lives. Fanatical, hate-filled rhetoric is dangerous and should not be tolerated. Words precede actions, after all. David Duke is a dangerous moron from Louisiana who hates blacks and Jews, and other “nonwhite” people. He has quite a following (and he is not a Muslim). All our problems will not disappear if the Muslims disappear!
    We may disagree on many points, but I believe that we both agree that terrorism is completely unacceptable. I am more than sick of it–I am Republican and I feel that the Democrats do not realize or acknowledge the danger of these radical, hateful ideologies. This does not make me anti-Muslim or anti-Islam–but firmly anti-terrorism.

    Reply
  73. BrooklynJon
    January 21, 2007 at 8:07 pm

    Louise,

    You’re right, but be nice to lynne. She’s a nice person, even if she may be too open-minded for your taste.

    Nomad,

    Bill’s philandering was a private matter precisely until he lied in court under oath about it, in reference to another case in which he allegedly coerced underlings to have sex with him when he was Governor of Arkanses. Which is not a private matter. And which would have ended him up in prison if he were anyone else but himself. And again, I voted for him twice, and thought he was a good enough president. But I also believe he should be cooling his jets in the state penitentiary right now, rather than in a lovely office on 125th Street.

    Reply
  74. BrooklynJon
    January 21, 2007 at 8:11 pm

    lynne,

    You’re right about David Duke, but I suspect if he started advocating widespread violence, he’d lose his following PDQ. Loons exist in every religion, but they tend not to become popular figures among the masses, with the notable exception of Islam. It may be a question of degree (e.g. support by 40% of the people rather than 2%), but it’s an important difference nonetheless.

    bj

    p.s. good to see you back!
    p.p.s you’re a little too open minded for me too, but I still likes ya!

    Reply
  75. nomad
    January 21, 2007 at 8:21 pm

    BJ,

    I did not know about the Arkansas story, seems he is what we say here a “hot rabbit” and harrassing underlings are also punissable of amend or jail, depends on the facts

    Reply
  76. Twosret
    January 21, 2007 at 8:33 pm

    Lynne,

    I couldn’t have said it better. Many people adopt Islam or a cause to Justify terror and hate. If people can’t understand that Christianity has nothing to do with the crusaders and Islam has nothing to do with terrorists then it is a waste of time to even discuss anything with them.

    The people who generalize and hate Muslims and vote for politicians who endorse war are killing innocents too based on a lie.

    Reply
  77. lynne
    January 21, 2007 at 9:02 pm

    BJ, thank you for your kind words. You are right about Duke; in the US the KKK has a very small following, thank goodness! That he has followers at all is worrisome, but it’s a matter of degree :) When hatred and violence gain momentum and become a movement, that is frightening indeed.
    I hate to see a group of people blamed for the actions of some members. As an American, I now worry when I travel. If people do not agree with some of the American policies or actions, I may be held accountable for those actions, even if I myself may disagree with them and have no power over these decisions.
    This is a concern that I feel for any group—I want them to be seen, as much as possible–as individuals and not vilified by the actions of other members of their group. I am most particularly grateful to the Muslims who post here and elsewhere—who are doing what they can to promote understanding and friendliness among us all.
    In Austin, Texas where I live, there is ongoing dialogue among the diverse faiths here, including Jews and Muslims—to increase understanding and to strengthen friendship in the community. I think that we need more of those kinds of efforts, as well as strong words denouncing those who promote violence.
    Twosret, I know that you and I agree that hatred of Muslims or any group is not acceptable. I comment on Good Neighbors, and I notice that all that post or comment there (even though from very different perspectives) are making a very, very strong effort to focus on areas where they do agree and to increase their understanding of others’ perspectives—with the goal of becoming “good neighbors” to each other. I am so grateful to SM, for this blog where I can have an opportunity to improve my understanding of this difficult matters facing us. Twosret, as a young mom, I know that this is a particular concern to you. We all want our kids to have a decent world to live in. The state of the world now is not too comforting. . .

    Reply
  78. Egypeter
    January 21, 2007 at 9:45 pm

    slightly OF:

    Bear Down Chicago Bears!

    Reply
  79. Louise
    January 21, 2007 at 10:20 pm

    “even if she may be too open-minded for your taste.”

    Sorry, BrooklynJon, the line she spouts is closed-minded. There is a corner of reality she does not want to acknowledge. An open-minded person is one who is willing to examine their assumptions and try to understand other perspectives. Now, if she had chosen to cite the kind of terrorism that was common in Northern Ireland and Great Britain some years ago, she might have come closer to an apt comparison, but even those folks had political motivations, not withstanding the fact that one could draw a religious sectarian line between the factions. No IRA radical was shouting God is Great while bombing buildings or sub-way trains.

    Lynne, if you are suggesting that Islamist terrorists are simply misfits you are profoundly missing the point. One does not have to be a misfit to be swept up in a mass movement which has been carefully cultivated by political actors that weild the power of the state. Witness the history of Hitler’s rise to power in Germany. Study the impact his ideology on Hitler. Categorizing this as the behavior of misfits is to grossly (and dangerously) diminish the phenomenon. If you want it to end, you have understand what it is.

    Reply
  80. Louise
    January 21, 2007 at 11:23 pm

    Oops. Should be “impact of his ideology on Hitler Youth.”

    Reply
  81. lynne
    January 21, 2007 at 11:25 pm

    Louise, no, I am not suggesting that Islamic terrorists are “simply” misfits, I am saying that something is drastically wrong with their thinking and their values. I am saying that they have embraced a cause and a willing to die for it or to kill others, which is very poor thinking. I am saying that this kind of behavior is abnormal and unacceptable. Their rhetoric should not be tolerated much less their actions. Often people who join these movements are disaffected, weak-minded individuals–similar to the kind of people who join gangs. They are people who get their identity by identifying with an ideology or a group of people. They are not admirable people at all. Their actions are criminal and they are criminals.
    The followers of Hitler seemed on the surface to be “normal” people, but history has shown us what they did. It has been posted here and elsewhere, and in the news, that many Muslim religious leaders are fueling the hatred toward non-Muslims. This is a serious and dreadful problem.
    You seem to misunderstand me. I am simply saying that not ALL Muslims can be blamed for the hateful philosophy and violence that is prevalent among some Muslims.
    I also think that right-thinking people should never make excuses for or support members of their group who commit evil or hateful acts. Even their silence makes them accomplices.

    Reply
  82. Mark
    January 21, 2007 at 11:30 pm

    People, people lets remember the important things. Like that the Bears just won the NFC championship.

    Reply
  83. Karen
    January 21, 2007 at 11:50 pm

    That’s right Lynne, not all Muslims can be blamed for the violent acts committed by some Muslims. However, if they support these violent Jihadis with money than they are just as much to blame. Likewise, vile hate spewing Imams are imho just as much to blame because while they may have never killed anyone themselves, they nurture the seeds of hate in those losers who have nothing better to live for than killing nonMuslims or nonSunnis or nonShiites.
    Let’s not forget that there are also Ishmaeli Muslims. I have only heard good things about these Muslims. But then again, they are not really considered to be Muslims by other Muslims. Maybe they are to moderate.

    Reply
  84. lynne
    January 22, 2007 at 12:31 am

    Karen, I agree with you completely. A few years ago, I bought a book on ways to promote kindness toward others within oneself. (I bought it for myself) One of the barriers listed was “tribalism” —not in the sense of being proud of one’s hertiage or group, but tribalism in the sense that it can blind one to the faults of the group to which the individual belongs. . . Harper Lee’s theme in To KIll a Mockingbird. Big Pharaoh has an interesting post on this topic today.
    I don’t want to be blind to my own faults, the faults of my “group”–and I want to try to keep my focus on what is right and good. I also don’t want to be taken over by disgust, hatred, or just plain fear to the point that I hate an entire group of people.
    I know that there are good, kind Muslims that are horrified by the hateful words and deeds of the extremists, and they are as fearful as anyone about the future if this continues.
    I am not familiar with Ishmaeli Muslims. I’ll try to find out more about them.
    Thanks for your response to my comment.

    Reply
  85. ella
    January 22, 2007 at 2:26 am

    lynne

    The germans in german army or even the followers of Hitler were normal persons. There was nothing wrong with them psychologically. In a course on psychology we had an example of an experiment done in the 1950s at US university. The students gave a series of electric shocks to a teacher, at the beginnig there were told the shocks are not painful, the later ones they gave were very painfull and could have lead to death of the teacher (or at least they so believed). They were “normal” students, quite normal.
    The problem with people who join “these movements”, is not that they are weak-minded . Many, if not most, of the people who join are not weak-minded, many have good jobs, some are wealthy.,They come from all walks of life. They are dissafected but not neccesserily because they are poor.
    But of course you are right… majority of Muslims are not terrorists and many muslims are not fundamentalists. But if kind Muslims are horrified by the deeds of extremists they really have to do something about it otherwise they may dissapear. They might get killed or get intimidated by the minority who will in time became majority.

    Mark

    You are right, the really important thing is…………………… Canadian Ice Dancing.
    The second place in ice dancing at Canadian Nationals has been won by Virtue and Moir http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yui-AwTWcV8 (free dance was even better) and Jeff Buttle in men competition was fantastic, wasn’t he. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4BTjsnSl6w

    Reply
  86. Craig
    January 22, 2007 at 2:30 am

    Lynne,

    Louise, no, I am not suggesting that Islamic terrorists are “simply” misfits, I am saying that something is drastically wrong with their thinking and their values.

    And is there also something profoundly wrong with the friends, family and other members of the community who are not terrorists, but know about and approve of terrorism?

    I am saying that they have embraced a cause and a willing to die for it or to kill others, which is very poor thinking.

    I personally don’t think that is “poor thinking” – the same could be said of most the people in our military! There was a time when I was willing to kill, or to die, for a cause. I was not, however, willing to victimize the innocent. I think you’ve missed an important distinction there.

    I am saying that this kind of behavior is abnormal and unacceptable.

    I completely agree with you. And when we can get the overwhelming majority of Muslims to believe that, as well, then the war on terror will have been won.

    Reply
  87. lynne
    January 22, 2007 at 3:05 am

    Ella, I agree with what you say. if I were participating in the experiment from the 1950s that you describe, I can promise you that I would NOT be willing to inflict harm on another person. Some people won’t go against their values which are firm and won’t yield to pressure. My son and daughter have always been such an inspiration to me because during their entire lives they have stood firm with their values, refused to join in any mistreatment of other kids at school, and my son, who was very slim and delicate as a child, would physically defend children who were being abused by others at some great risk to himself. They were also so courageous in their support of what was right and the defense of others. Some people—not enough—will not go along with things that are clearly not right.
    I chose certainly the wrong word “normal”—what does that mean really? My error. What I mean is that some people seem ok but they are easily swayed and influenced to commit wrongs–little wrongs and big ones.
    You are right. I did not mean to equate “weak minds” with poverty. And, I should have used the term weak values, not weak minds. Though I think that truly well-adjusted, right-thinking people do not mistreat others.
    Craig, I agree with you on all points. I didn’t express myself well.
    Ella, I agree with both you and Craig and I mention it in previous comments above. It is unacceptable to stand by silent without speaking out against injustices.
    I am here in Austin, Texas which is progressive overall, and efforts are being made to improve understanding between diverse religious groups. But my daughter lives in Israel. I am worried every moment of the day about her. She won’t–and I won’t—let our concerns about the hatred expressed toward Israel blind us to the goodwill and kindness among most Arab people. It’s very hard to cope with the problems facing the neighbors who call the Middle East home, and I try to seize every opportunity to increase my compassion for others and to learn about the perceptions and concerns of others. Perhaps you could check out the Good Neighbors blog. I keep hoping that progress is being made there.

    Reply
  88. Twosret
    January 22, 2007 at 3:59 am

    Lynne,

    I am very glad you are writing on SM blog as you bring some balance to the readers. I will be checking the good neighbors blog and wish your daughter safety.

    Reply
  89. lynne
    January 22, 2007 at 4:39 am

    Twosret, thank you for your kind words and wishes. The Good Neighbors blog is composed of bloggers from a number of ME countries, all committed to increasing their understanding of each other and working for healthy relationships among all the “neighbors”. It seems that the leadership of our countries haven’t come up with any solutions, so the posters and commentors are all working on improving communication, appreciation and respect for each other.

    Reply
  90. Craig
    January 22, 2007 at 6:24 am

    Eh… Lynne… perhaps you should take a look at some of Twosret’s past commentary before inviting her to a blog which is committed to increasing their understanding of each other and working for healthy relationships among all the “neighbors”. But, it’s your call, of course :)

    Reply
  91. Craig
    January 22, 2007 at 6:25 am

    Eh… Lynne… perhaps you should take a look at some of Twosret’s past commentary before inviting her to a blog which is committed to increasing their understanding of each other and working for healthy relationships among all the “neighbors”. But, it’s your call, of course :)

    Reply
  92. kinzi
    January 22, 2007 at 8:07 am

    BEARS WON? Wahoo…I can count on Sandmonkey’s blog to get all the big news first.

    Lynne, Ella, Craig, BrookJan, enjoyed the conversation!

    Reply
  93. Amgad
    January 22, 2007 at 10:09 am

    why do not the Americans ask him about the number of hours of religious education versus the number of hours of secular subjects he had in his primary school, to judge whether it was a madrassa or a seminary. why do not you ask him to show the manuscript of the books he studied, translated into English of course, underlying the points he agreed with, the points he still agrees with and the points he now reject completely. a transcript of the classes given by the teachers will also be helpful. Such an enquiry is necessary in all cases as he occupies a place in the senate which is not a trivial position. I recommend you to hold this enquiry in public, say in Foxnews. To ensure that sincere answers are obtained, for these sensitive national security matters, you can borrow form the European heritage and have him lay on a rack or sit on a Spanish Chair, during the “discussion”.

    Reply
  94. lynne
    January 22, 2007 at 11:18 am

    Craig, I like Twosret. I know that we do not agree on all matters, but we do agree on many (when I have an opportunity, I read her blog.) We probably have many, many more matters on which we do agree than disagree. It seems that on Good Neighbors the focus is on commonality, those things that we can agree on.
    I think that people have the ability to work through most differences and to compromise. It depends on priorities. If the priority is a good relationship, then most people can do a good job maintaining that. My friend Luba (here in Austin) is from Lebanon, and we do not agree on all matters that concern Israel. We have touched on that topic around the edges, and we simply say, “ah, well” and move on to other matters. We agree on 99% of the other things in life, so we say we have somewhat different perspectives, we compromise, we accommodate, and our friendhship is our priority to maintain. We both love people, so it’s not too much of a stretch :)
    Kinzi: The Bears won! :)
    Take care, everyone!

    Reply
  95. Amy
    January 22, 2007 at 11:50 am

    All haters can do is hate. Vote for Obama!

    Reply
  96. Roman Kalik
    January 22, 2007 at 11:56 am

    Amgad, chill out. With any politician lying about their past is bad. It makes one wonder just what it is that he’s trying to cover-up. Again, it is not the possibility of him being previously a Muslim who studied in a religious Muslim school that is the problem, but rather that he may have seen it fit to lie about it.

    Though personally, I think Hillary is grasping at straws here, but that’s just me. We’ll just have to wait and see.

    Reply
  97. HeiGou
    January 22, 2007 at 12:01 pm

    lynne Says:”I agree that acceptance of terrorism has taken hold of a large group of Muslims the world over, but I see that viewpoint denounced by Muslims, too. We cannot blame all Muslims for the actions of some members of that group. It is not only unfair, but inaccurate to do so.”

    I am not trying to blame all Muslims for the actions of some. Although I blame all those who have been silent or passive supporters for being silent or passive supporters. I am slowly coming around to the view that Islam *is* the problem, however I am not there yet. I do not see that veiwpoint denounced at all, or at least, not honestly. Many Muslims and especially Imams are saying one thing to Westerners and another to their own. Until they started bombing SAudi Arabia, no Saudi Alim I know of denounced terrorism. al-Qaradawi supports suicide bombing. I think most Muslims are like Muhammed Atta’s father – when he thought the US would punish him he denoucned his son and denied he was involved. But once the heat was off, he said he was proud and wished he had more sons like Muhammed. Not one single Muslim in Europe has been sacked or reprimanded by their own for involvement in terrorism. Not a single Imam. Not one teacher.

    lynne Says:”Looking at the world problems–everything from disputes to crime–is quite distressing. Something is needed to counteract the violence and hatred that is so prevalent today.”

    Well Islam is not the solution and frankly I think the problem is not enough “just” violence. We let too many criminals and terrorists get away without adequate punishment.

    lynne Says:”People need guidance from leaders such as Gandhi and Martin Luther King—from their writings and their examples. We are desperate for examples of goodness and virtue. The problems in the world make me despair.”

    I reject that claim utterly. Gandhi was the worst thing for India and India has struggled to reject his toxic legacy. Both of them only were successful because they were dealing with peaceful and civilised Western nations. Saint Francis Xavier preached to the Muslims and was not only unable to stop their violence, was lucky to get away with his life. Being a sheep in the face of wolves is asking to be lunch.

    Louise Says:”On the contrary, his motivation was much narrower in focus and he was seen largely as a loner, loser misfit type rather than a heroic martyr. He was caught, tried and convicted. There was no movement that survived him.”

    Not only was there no movement that survived him, but the militia movement died right there. The majority of Americans were disgusted and walked away from anyone associated with his politics. Unlike our Muslim Brothers who put videos of what they do on the internet and recruit vast numbers of friends and followers that way. There is such a vast gulf between the sort of people who join the Jihadis and ordinary Americans that I sometimes think they do not belong to the same species.

    ella Says:”You did not check education in Indonesia.
    It seems that “normal” school in Indonesia is called “sekolah” The islamic schools are called madrasas (Ibtidiyah,Tsanawiyah and Aliyah) some of these islamic schools are also called pesantren and most pesantren provide dormitory for students.”

    Although a pesantren is not usually a madrassa in the Pakistani sense. Their Islam is not Meccan “Santri” Islam, but usually Kebatinan or what the West usually calls abangan – Sufi-influenced, quasi-Hindu Islam.

    And Indonesian has a few words for school.

    ella Says:”The pesantren and madrasas offer formal education curriculum plus study of koran, islamic law and islamic history). Therefore madrassas and pesantren are for people whose religion is Islam and they are not mixed.”

    Which suggests that Obama did not go to one. All his said was that he went to a predominatly Muslim school. Hillary seems to be spinning this as a madrassa in order to smear him.

    Reply
  98. BrooklynJon
    January 22, 2007 at 1:14 pm

    Amy,

    “Vote for Obama! ”

    On the basis of his experience as a state senator? Or because of his dazzling two years in the US Senate? Or because he looks like Tiger Woods?

    His time may well come. In the meantime, vote for Rudy.

    bj

    Reply
  99. Louise
    January 22, 2007 at 1:46 pm

    Lynne @ 84: “The followers of Hitler seemed on the surface to be “normal” people, but history has shown us what they did.”

    I believe you are referring to the inner circle members of his government. What you need to know is that the Nazi Party was extremely popular with the general population as well, whether they knew the full extent of the extermination apparatus or not. I disagree that this kind of “following” is not “normal”. History is filled with examples.

    History is also filled with examples of the utter failure of the “love thy neighbour” approach, which you seem to think will win the day, when dealing with people who have been caught up in this kind of mindset.

    And Craig is right. Read the old threads. Twosret is a hardcore little Nazi herself.

    Reply
  100. Aliandra
    January 22, 2007 at 1:59 pm

    Craig;

    Most powerful person in the world. The one who makes life and death decisions involving millions of people.

    Craig, the US president isn’t the most powerful person in the world. He’s not even the most powerful person the the US. Most of the power in the US is vested in the Congress, not in the executive branch.

    (and if he really were so powerful, dontcha think he could get the Iraqis to behave or the killings to stop in Darfur?)

    Reply
  101. Twosret
    January 22, 2007 at 2:02 pm

    Yeah Lynne, I’m against Zionism and occupation and I don’t vote for Bush, I’m not anglo-saxon so I’m less American, my birth place is Egypt and that makes me the enemy and the terrorist they hate. I don’t Bash Islam as I know good Muslims and I know that many Muslims will disagree with violence and terrorism.

    The problem with many SM commentators here is that they are extreme Zionists or Christian Zionists and they will make sure that they taunt Islam and all Muslims.

    I have few questions about the good neighbors blog, I’m not sure if you are a team member or not but I will either post them there or e-mail you.

    Feel free to check my old threads and blog.

    Reply
  102. Twosret
    January 22, 2007 at 2:06 pm

    Lynne,

    I posted before reading your previous entry, I scroll down when I see Craig’s name so I missed your comment. Thanks for your comment and don’t worry about Craig, I ignore him for long months and he is a little stalker.

    Reply
  103. Aliandra
    January 22, 2007 at 2:07 pm

    Andrea;

    I would think that an Obama presidency would see an quick and dramatic drop in the rise of Islamic fundamentalism.

    Andrea, wake up. The jihadists are killing people not because Obama isn’t the president but because they’re nuts. They are killing Buddhists in Thailand, Christians in Pakistan, Nigeria, and the Philiippines, and Hindus in India. And they are killing Muslims who are the “wrong” kind of Muslims.

    None of the above has anything to do with the US.

    Reply
  104. BrooklynJon
    January 22, 2007 at 2:29 pm

    Nomad,

    The Bears are the football team from Chicago. They just won the game that got them into the Championship, which will be in two weeks against Indianapolis. People from Chicago are very excited because there has been little to celebrate about in Chicago since Michael Jordan retired.

    Here’s Tiger and Barak. Of note, I haven’t seen them together at the same time.
    http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2003/WORLD/europe/11/28/tiger.woods.wedding.reut/vert.tiger.file.ap.jpg

    http://www.law.harvard.edu/news/2005/09/16_obama.php

    Reply
  105. Janjan
    January 22, 2007 at 3:32 pm

    Andrea,

    While your down here, make sure you shoot off your mouth about how ignorant we all are.

    Reply
  106. nomad
    January 22, 2007 at 3:48 pm

    thanks BJ

    this guy should go to Hollywood though and start a carrer as a trade-unionist like the revered Reagan :lol:

    so, bears = Basket :lol:

    Reply
  107. HeiGou
    January 22, 2007 at 5:15 pm

    Aliandra Says:”The jihadists are killing people not because Obama isn’t the president but because they’re nuts. They are killing Buddhists in Thailand, Christians in Pakistan, Nigeria, and the Philiippines, and Hindus in India. And they are killing Muslims who are the “wrong” kind of Muslims. None of the above has anything to do with the US.”

    Oh come on now, we all know it is the Zionists who put the guns in the hands of innocent Muslims and make ‘em, I mean just *force* them, to kill people.

    Nothing to do with Muslims at all.

    In positive news, a friend in Australia sent me a link to a story about Egyptian police. It seems a story has broken thanks to Sandmonkey Down Under:

    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21101989-2703,00.html

    Makin’ a difference one internet scandal at a time. Way to go SM!

    Reply
  108. BrooklynJon
    January 22, 2007 at 7:14 pm

    Two,

    BTW, Being non-Anglo-Saxon does not make you less American, and being Egyptian does not make you the enemy. You are attributing views to your ideological opponents that they themselves do not hold. You do not like it when others do that to you (you know, the cries of “Nazi”, etc), so you shouldn’t do it to others. My $.02.

    bj

    Reply
  109. Craig
    January 22, 2007 at 7:39 pm

    Aliandra,

    Craig, the US president isn’t the most powerful person in the world. He’s not even the most powerful person the the US. Most of the power in the US is vested in the Congress, not in the executive branch.

    A) Congress is not a “person” is it? Pick a person in the US congress who you feel is more important than the President,why don’t you?

    B) The President is in charge of foreign policy, and is Commander in Chief of the US military. The Executive Branch is far more powerful than the Legislative Branch, internationally. It’s not even close. Domestically, the 3 branches of government are pretty well balanced – by design.

    Lynne, Twosret is a hatemonger. Not the kind of person I’d want on a blog dedicated to building bridges between opposing ideologies. You aren’t the first person who had tried to find common ground with Twosret. I wish you more success than others have had. But I’m not betting on it.

    Reply
  110. Aliandra
    January 22, 2007 at 8:02 pm

    Craig;

    Yoru first statement: The Executive Branch is far more powerful than the Legislative Branch

    Your second statenment: Domestically, the 3 branches of government are pretty well balanced – by design

    So which is it?

    Reply
  111. Egypeter
    January 22, 2007 at 8:28 pm

    Well, moving on to significantly more important news besides Obama’s radical upbringing (and another of Craig and Two’s epic cyber battles)…

    DA CHICAGO BEARS ARE GOING TO THE SUPER BOWL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    ————————————————

    BEAR DOWN, CHICAGO BEARS

    Bear Down, Chicago Bears
    Make every play, clear the way to victory!

    Bear Down, Chicago Bears
    Put up a fight with a might so fearlessly!

    We’ll never forget the way you thrilled the nation
    With your T-formation

    Bear Down, Chicago Bears
    And let them know why you’re wearing the crown!

    You’re the pride and joy of Illinois,
    Chicago Bears, Bear Down!!
    :) :)

    Reply
  112. leo
    January 22, 2007 at 9:08 pm

    I doubt I will vote for Obama. He is too liberal for my taste.

    But I would never vote against him just because his middle name is Husein or because he attended state school in Muslim country.

    Reply
  113. Craig
    January 22, 2007 at 9:20 pm

    Aliandra,

    Here is how you misquoated me:

    Yoru first statement: The Executive Branch is far more powerful than the Legislative Branch

    Your second statenment: Domestically, the 3 branches of government are pretty well balanced – by design

    Here is what I actually said:

    The Executive Branch is far more powerful than the Legislative Branch, internationally. It’s not even close. Domestically, the 3 branches of government are pretty well balanced – by design.

    As you can see, I did not say what you claimed I said.

    So which is it?

    I’ll take “Misquotations by Aliandra” for 100, Alex!

    Reply
  114. Twosret
    January 22, 2007 at 10:21 pm

    bj,

    You misunderstood the comment and replied in haste. My comment was in reference to many comments I received by people on this board. They are the ones that needs your message not me. Easy does it ok?

    Egypeter,

    This donkey has been beaten so many times. Ignore this topic and let us move on please. Don’t pay any attention to it. Hopefully this stubborn harasser will stop one day. Just check above and see if I replied to any of his garbage if you are in doubt.

    If you look above your post you will see that I shared the Bear’s super bowl sentiment :)

    Oh and if you don’t show up on Sunday to early mass I will tell Abouna on you :)

    Reply
  115. Twosret
    January 22, 2007 at 10:23 pm

    I mean Sunday Feb 4th of course :)

    Reply
  116. BrooklynJon
    January 22, 2007 at 10:39 pm

    Two,

    Thanks for clarifying. Y’know, there are those of us who disagree with you, but who would go to the mat to preserve your right to express your opinion (Misguided as it may be). And you Egyptians are welcome to “colonize” our country. See, occupation isn’t necessarily all bad! ;-)

    Reply
  117. Craig
    January 22, 2007 at 10:58 pm

    Hopefully this stubborn harasser will stop one day.

    I told you before, I will never stop. You have told malicious lies about me, personally, too many times, for me to ever, ever stop. I do not read your blog. I do not read any blog you are a regular on. Do me the same favor, and we have no problems. I will comment on the things you say every time I see you say something. Every time. We had a “truce’ where we agreed to ignore each other once before. And you betrayed that truce when you made vicious and unprovoked personal attacks on me, on Leilouta’s blog. How stupid would I have to be to ignore you in the future? You have no idea how much harm you did to a relationship I have with somebody who is also (supposedly) a friend of yours. I will never stop, and I will never forgive you, and your dishonest hatemongering. You want hate? You got it, Babe. I hate you more than anyone else on earth.

    Just check above and see if I replied to any of his garbage if you are in doubt.

    Yeah, you only spoke of me in the third person 4 or 5 times. Cheeseball.

    Reply
  118. dick
    January 22, 2007 at 10:59 pm

    Regarding the muslim-ness of terrorism, it seems to me that the important things are these:

    1. There are islamic religious leaders who not only sanction terrorism, they encourage it. Further: they are able to cite koranic references to support their views. Conversely, there are very few other religious leaders who condemn it.

    2. All too many members of the muslim community are inclined to mix condemnation of terrorist activity with “explanations” that, at some level, justify it. Israel, imperialism, victimization, and all that.

    To say that muslim = terrorist is patently absurd: if it were true, we’d all have been goners long ago, there being so many muslims amongst us (including, in my case, in my immediate household). But it’s not too much of a simplification at this point to say that terrorist = muslim. An exaggeration, of course, but a decent approximation to the truth.

    In Hillary’s case, her insinuation is: Obama = muslim? = not to be trusted. Which amounts to Hillary = opportunist = racist bigot when it serves her purposes.

    Reply
  119. Twosret
    January 22, 2007 at 11:22 pm

    BJ

    Misguided or not I respect all your views even if I disagree with them. After a couple of years of blogging you learn and mature and know who you want to debate with. No harm done. I’m very glad to see that you have chosen to respect mine.

    Egyptians Colonize your country?Last I know you are American living in Brooklyn :) you want Egypt to colonize the US? hehehehhee

    Reply
  120. Craig
    January 22, 2007 at 11:33 pm

    You gonna fall for her bullshit, BrooklynJon? Wouldn’t blame you. I fell for it once, too :)

    Reply
  121. Craig
    January 23, 2007 at 12:46 am

    By the way, BrooklynJon, Twosret and her husband threatened to file a lawsuit against me for stating my opinions. Lets see how much she respects yours.

    Reply
  122. Chip
    January 23, 2007 at 1:34 am

    My Muslim heroes.
    Cojones grandes, even the women. You can hover your mouse over the video to jump ahead or backwards to individual speakers.

    Iyad Jamal Al-Din… Wow! He’s an argument for cloning.

    Reply
  123. Jason
    January 23, 2007 at 1:39 am

    Janjan says: Andrea,

    While your down here, make sure you shoot off your mouth about how ignorant we all are.

    Tell ya what. Next time I’m down there I will. Heck 50% of y’all will be to ignorant to know that I’m bashing ya. :P Besides, Canadians don’t need to point it out, when studies done by National Geographic, amongst others, prove it already.

    Reply
  124. Karen
    January 23, 2007 at 1:43 am

    That’s a stupid thing to say, Jason.

    Reply
  125. Craig
    January 23, 2007 at 1:44 am

    Tell ya what. Next time I’m down there I will. Heck 50% of y’all will be to ignorant to know that I’m bashing ya.

    And what will the other 50% do? :P

    Reply
  126. Jason
    January 23, 2007 at 1:50 am

    “The problem with many SM commentators here is that they are extreme Zionists or Christian Zionists and they will make sure that they taunt Islam and all Muslims.”

    You left out Atheist, Agnostic and Wiccan Zionists :P

    Reply
  127. Twosret
    January 23, 2007 at 2:28 am

    Now I’m sure which Jason you are :)

    Reply
  128. Louise
    January 23, 2007 at 2:35 am

    #127 Chip. Thank you for that link to MEMRI. This is the beginning of the reformation in the Middle East and, thank you George Bush, for you provided the catalist.

    Reply
  129. Andrea
    January 23, 2007 at 3:22 am

    Janjan – I don’t ever recall saying all Americans are ignorant ’cause that would make me ignorant and I’m hardly that :) Besides I went to university in the US. .

    I just hate the stupidity of your election campaigns. I also happen to prefer my own country and would rather not leave.

    Reply
  130. Skye
    January 23, 2007 at 3:31 am

    BTW it wasn’t Hillary who made up this story about Obama. It was a right wing newspaper who tried to blame it on her.

    Reply
  131. mike
    January 23, 2007 at 4:13 am

    “By the way, BrooklynJon, Twosret and her husband threatened to file a lawsuit against me for stating my opinions. Lets see how much she respects yours.”

    Lol. Did she threaten to file a lawsuit because of something you said on the net? What a loser:) Go home Two.

    Canadians, please come and visit. As neighbors it’s always fun to listen to pale unpleasent people complain while they complement themselves on their manners.

    Reply
  132. BrooklynJon
    January 23, 2007 at 4:36 am

    Chip,

    Wow.

    Reply
  133. BrooklynJon
    January 23, 2007 at 4:44 am

    Mike,

    You could do a lot worse than having Canada on your border. It’s a country whose entire culture is based on inoffensiveness. And beer and hockey. Not so bad, really.

    Andrea,

    “I also happen to prefer my own country and would rather not leave.”

    Works for us.

    bj

    Reply
  134. Twosret
    January 23, 2007 at 5:38 am

    BJ,

    “It’s a country whose entire culture is based on inoffensiveness. And beer and hockey. ”

    I would take that over a woman is sexually assaulted every three minutes in America in a heart beat :) not to mention domestic abuse, murder etc…..

    Heck, I would take that over the American people voting for Bush twice :)

    Sorry but my Canadian side is ON.

    Reply
  135. Twosret
    January 23, 2007 at 5:44 am

    Andrea,

    Welcome to the US, thank God virtual trolls can’t haunt you in real life. I’m sure you will find nice people and you will have a good time here. I fell in love with Canada from day one and it was very hard to leave too.

    Reply
  136. Craig
    January 23, 2007 at 6:26 am

    I would take that over a woman is sexually assaulted every three minutes in America in a heart beat :) not to mention domestic abuse, murder etc…..

    What’s stopping you? You’re a Canadian national, right? Walk it the way you talk it, Twosret. Send me a postcard from the great white north :)

    Reply
  137. Craig
    January 23, 2007 at 6:30 am

    mike,

    Did she threaten to file a lawsuit because of something you said on the net?

    Yep, she sure did. She threatened me specifically and even made sure to point out she knows where I live.

    She did one better, though. She made a post on her blog threatening to take legal action against anyone who defames her or tells “lies” on her blog, which she seems to think is copyrighted, and she also threatened to take legal action against anyone who insults her on OTHER blogs.

    So, watch out! She has many millions of dollars just waiting in a lawsuit fund too, apparently!

    Reply
  138. mike
    January 23, 2007 at 6:35 am

    “Mike,

    You could do a lot worse than having Canada on your border. It’s a country whose entire culture is based on inoffensiveness. And beer and hockey. Not so bad, really.”

    meh. You haven’t met a canadian if you think their culture is based on inoffensiveness. They are annoying at best. Canada could do a lot worse than having the U.S. on the border, so what?

    2 said: “Sorry but my Canadian side is ON.”

    Please keep it on. Fuck off and go home.

    Reply
  139. Craig
    January 23, 2007 at 6:57 am

    Twosret,

    I’m sure you will find nice people and you will have a good time here.

    Why? Is that what happened to you? I’ve never heard you say anything good about America, or Americans. Either in private or in public. And you certainly don’t seem to be having a “good time here” to me!

    Reply
  140. Louise
    January 23, 2007 at 11:13 am

    OH – MY – GOD!!!!! TWOSRET IS CANADIAN??????? MY APOLOGIES TO THE WORLD.

    Mike, my apologies to you, too. You see a side of Canadian ideology which bugs my ass. We are indeed arrogant and self-rightious. Too damned many years of having the Liberals in power and the CBC as our primary news organization. The CBC depends for their very existance on continued funding from the Federal government so they suck up to the Liberals and spread their propaganda for them. Thanks to their propaganda we have become a nation of zealor anti-Americans.

    But oh my God. Twosret is Canadian. We’ve hit bottom.

    Reply
  141. Louise
    January 23, 2007 at 11:16 am

    make that “zealot”.

    Reply
  142. nomad
    January 23, 2007 at 12:07 pm

    You could do a lot worse than having Canada on your border.

    pour mettre tout le monde d’accord, yes, the frenchs :lol:

    Reply
  143. Sam
    January 23, 2007 at 1:51 pm

    Louise born in 1930 apologizing to mike for being a fucker so what does that make Louise a pimp?

    Reply
  144. Berry
    January 23, 2007 at 2:03 pm

    Sandmonkey,
    I have been to mega blogs before with visitors over 50 million people.They moderate their blog with their team members.You need to hop on board and deal with your comment section,the abuse to some members are clear,it is disgusting and vicious. Twosret and Andrea don’t engage with trolls. Just my 2 cents.

    Reply
  145. Valerie
    January 23, 2007 at 2:41 pm

    Berry,

    You’ve identified the wrong trolls. Go back and read further up.

    Reply
  146. Avidbuff
    January 23, 2007 at 3:25 pm

    Not all Canadians are Jason, not all Americans are Mike. Nor do all Canadians hate Americans.

    People who make sweeping statements about a nations beliefs are simply espousing their own.

    my 2 cents….

    P.S. No evidence has been put forward to link Hillary Clinton with the attempted swift boating of Obama. So condemnations are premature.

    my other 2 cents…

    Reply
  147. Berry
    January 23, 2007 at 4:35 pm

    Valerie,
    I read all comments and I can see that Twosret and Andrea were not trolls by.You are the one who need to read Mike&Craig&Sam.

    Reply
  148. Twosret
    January 23, 2007 at 5:44 pm

    Berry,

    Please don’t worry about it.

    Reply
  149. ella
    January 23, 2007 at 5:49 pm

    Canadians, please come and visit. As neighbors it’s always fun to listen to pale unpleasent people complain while they complement themselves on their manners.
    Mike
    Thank you. As one of these pale, unpleasant people I always wondered who are these dark, loud-voiced people looking down at us. Now I know.

    I would take that over a woman is sexually assaulted every three minutes in America in a heart beat :) not to mention domestic abuse, murder etc…..
    Twosret
    In that case what the hell are you doing in US? Masochistically complaining of being forced to live in that awfull country?

    Louise
    But she claims she is first and foremost Egyptian, doesn’t she. Her Canadian side (if she has any) is coming to the fore only if she can spit on the country she now lives in.

    Reply
  150. Berry
    January 23, 2007 at 6:40 pm

    Twosret,

    Too low for my taste. I agree

    Reply
  151. Louise
    January 23, 2007 at 6:55 pm

    Berry is either a fascist sympatizer (ie. leftie) or she/he hasn’t bothered to look back far enough. I agree that very recently Twosret has toned down her abusive language, but way back a year or two ago, she was as ugly and confrontational as they get and, of course, accused everyone else of the very behaviour which she so glaringly illustrated herself. The oh so typical double standard was her trade mark. She could dish out the most incorrigible insults and accusations but she sure couldn’t take it when it was hurled right back at her.

    And btw, Sandmonkey did have monitoring a while back.

    Reply
  152. Craig
    January 23, 2007 at 7:00 pm

    Berry = Twosret. Twosret, don’t you realize we can spot you by your grammar and word usage? :P

    Reply
  153. Sam
    January 23, 2007 at 7:03 pm

    Louise says “Berry is either a fascist sympatizer (ie. leftie)” so this is how you disagree with someone. Caught in your lies Louise.
    Are you still alive to tell lies about others? why don’t you fuck off like Mike says. You are the most fucking abuser on all Egyptian blogs from bigpharoah to Sandmonkey. I don’t agree with most of what Twosret saying but she is definitely not a troll she only attracts trolls like you. What hypocrisy you are the mother of all hypocrisies.

    And Ella fuck off will ya! show us different statistics than what Twosret posted. She is against sexual assault unlike you who is enjoying it very much.

    Reply
  154. Sam
    January 23, 2007 at 7:05 pm

    And Craig = Ella=Valerie….what a fucking idiot!. we can spot you too twit by your kindergarten fights.

    Reply
  155. Craig
    January 23, 2007 at 7:06 pm

    Isn’t it odd how all these type in names always show up to support Twosret, whenever she comments on this blog? :o

    Reply
  156. Craig
    January 23, 2007 at 7:08 pm

    “Sam” – I’ve been posting comments on dozens of blogs for 2 years. As have these others that you think are all the same people. I argued with Ella pretty severely a few months ago on Healing Iraq. Where have *you* been, and how come you also sound just like Twosret?

    Twosret, you think everyone is stupid, don’t you?

    Reply
  157. Sam
    January 23, 2007 at 7:11 pm

    You are fucked up in the head since Marines Corp. I have been on Sandmonkey forever and watched over your fights with Abu-Sinan, the same kind of fucking fights idiot. I made zibilion comments but you are so dumb and an asshole to remember. Just dying to discredit Twosret. You are the only stupid asshole here

    Reply
  158. Wishbone
    January 23, 2007 at 7:41 pm

    Yeah, Wishbone……..you can fuck off as well you Brit fuck! . Coming in here with your pissy, handbags-at-50-paces attitude and giving shit to the mirror!.

    Ah….Multiple personality disorder…. You know, people say “Don’t beat yourself up about it”. I say that’s where all the fun is. I fucking hate me!.

    On a lighter note, there’s free Prozac on the bar……. Enjoy!.

    Reply
  159. Craig
    January 23, 2007 at 8:10 pm

    You are fucked up in the head since Marines Corp.

    And how does somebody I’ve never even seen on this blog or any other know that I was in teh Marine Corpst?

    I have been on Sandmonkey forever and watched over your fights with Abu-Sinan

    Of course you have, you commented on his first post, Twosret.

    Reply
  160. Craig
    January 23, 2007 at 8:17 pm

    I have been on Sandmonkey forever and watched over your fights with Abu-Sinan

    And by the way, Abu Sinan has never commented on this blog that I’ve seen, and I certainly never ARGUED with him here. Isn’t it interesting that the person “Sam” invokes as an example, is the only legit non-Twosret sock puppet who took Twosret’s side in major flamewar on Leilouta’s? :p

    What happened to the “mohamed” ID? You figured we were onto that one, or what?

    Reply
  161. Cut snake
    January 23, 2007 at 8:25 pm

    Two , check out the vid at Chip #127 , highly recommended .

    Reply
  162. Twosret
    January 23, 2007 at 8:37 pm

    Cut snake,

    I saw Wafaa Sultan before on that famous interview on Al-Jazeerah and I think she is doing exactly what she claims Islam is doing to other religions:) she is condemning Islam herself and crying loud how come Islam condemn other religions. One of the quotes about Islam she mentioned is out of context.The interview posted by Chip is not complete.

    If any Muslim wants to comment on this interview they should feel free to do so. I’m not Muslim so I’m not in a position to respond to her. I’m only against generalization on any religion.

    As for the guy, this is the first time I see this interview and I would like to see the complete interview before I comment. He got me laughing when he said that the Arab world will be nothing without the western civilization. I’m sure that is what the Arabs said back then when there was no western civilization.

    I agree very much with him on the first part of the interview. I respect his style and language much more than the Sultan lady.

    Reply
  163. Craig
    January 23, 2007 at 8:40 pm

    I’m not Muslim so I’m not in a position to respond to her. I’m only against generalization on any religion.

    It’s funny that you didn’t feel that way when you were condemning American Christians for not being sufficiently anti-semitic, though, did you?

    Reply
  164. Twosret
    January 23, 2007 at 10:24 pm

    Cut snake and Chip I forgot to mention that I wrote before about memri and it’s owner Col. Yigal Carmon, an Israeli former military figure who

    “served in the IDF/Intelligence Branch from 1968 to 1988. From 1977 to 1982 he was the Acting Head of Civil Administration in Judea and Samaria and the Advisor on Arab Affairs to the Civil Administration. Following Col. Carmon’s retirement from the IDF he was Advisor to Premiers Shamir and Rabin for Countering Terrorism from 1988 to 1993. In 1991 and 1992 he was a senior member of the Israeli Delegation to peace negotiations with Syria in Madrid and Washington.”

    http://cheztwosret.blogspot.com/2006/11/glenn-beck-and-cnn-exposed.html

    And Brian Whitaker wrote about memri too.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/journalist/story/0,,773258,00.html

    Memri Islamphobic agenda is clear and it might work for you to advertise it among the uninformed, I just laughed how they bundle the two interviews together.

    Reply
  165. BrooklynJon
    January 24, 2007 at 1:39 am

    Two,

    Are you suggesting that the translations that MEMRI gives are incorrect and intentionally so? Or are you suggesting that MEMRI has an interest in convincing the public about its point of view, but that the means it uses are essentially accurate? I don’t speak Arabic, so I’d have to rely on an Arabic speaker like you to vouch for the authenticity of the translations.

    bj

    Reply
  166. Twosret
    January 24, 2007 at 2:02 am

    BJ,

    The translation is very accurate as far as I know, I actually find that they do a great job in translation. Only the way they cut and paste the interviews and put it together. They obviously have an agenda like any news source, if you know what I mean.

    Thank you for asking before yelling at me, I really appreciate it. Always a treat to chat with you.

    If someone find the whole interview with the Syrian poet and care to post the link, I’m very interested to watch it all.

    Twosret

    Reply
  167. lynne
    January 24, 2007 at 2:08 am

    Twosret, wow, I just scrolled down and saw the number of posts here. . . it seems that something about this conversation has struck some nerves and upset everyone. I hope that your feelings are not hurt, and I want to thank you for being so gracious to me even though you know that we are coming from different perspectives in some respects.

    Reply
  168. Craig
    January 24, 2007 at 2:19 am

    Lynne,

    I hope that your feelings are not hurt

    I wouldn’t worry about that too much. She wouldn’t spend so much time trying to hurt others, if she didn’t enjoy the reaction she gets from them, when she does.

    Reply
  169. lynne
    January 24, 2007 at 2:45 am

    Craig, oh, I don’t know what to say. . . these are such emotional issues and it’s difficult at times to be as civil and respectful as we would want or should be. If I am really upset by something, I don’t usually reply at all. If the debate gets too harsh among commentors, I find myself withdrawing for a while–which is probably why recently I have been commenting very lightly or not at all. I wish those who comment here could be more patient with each other.

    Reply
  170. Jason
    January 24, 2007 at 3:36 am

    ‘That’s a stupid thing to say, Jason.’

    Oh really? Can you not detect the sarcasm Karen? Wanna bet how many Americans get the American-bashing in South Park?

    ‘And what will the other 50% do?’

    Well Craig, other than chest-thumping, trash-talking macho-ish innuendos on Egyptian blogs? Watching Springer perhaps? :P

    Great link Chip (127)

    Yes Twosret, I dropped the ‘from Toronto’ tag considering I moved to London.

    “Not all Canadians are Jason, not all Americans are Mike. Nor do all Canadians hate Americans”

    Who hates Americans? I just love pokin them to get them going :p Sheesh
    I could really really really bore y’all with oodles of chat logs from DC++ and MSN to prove this if you or I really gave a fuck…

    Reply
  171. Craig
    January 24, 2007 at 4:14 am

    Lynne,

    I wish those who comment here could be more patient with each other.

    It’s kind of hard to be “patient” with somebody who has a long history of making personal attacks on the other commenters. Wait until she starts making racist comments about you, or starts telling malicious lies about you, and see how it plays. Especially when she has 4 or 5 sock-puppet IDs she logs in under to pile on. It’s fucking annoying, at best. You wait and see what she does to that “Good Neighbors” blog, if she starts commenting there. I give it a week before she has every at each other’s throats. It’s what she does.

    Reply
  172. Twosret
    January 24, 2007 at 4:16 am

    Lynne,

    Thanks for your kind words, as you rightly said before we have more in common than different.

    Jason,

    Hope you are liking London, I agree with you I was poking fun at BJ with a smiley face and there is no hate to America or Americans.

    Reply
  173. Twosret
    January 24, 2007 at 4:27 am

    Back to topic…..

    Obama was interviewed after the most boring State of the Union Address by Bushie and Anderson cooper CNN assured the viewers that correspondence was made officially with the Indonesian Government and Obama only attended public schools not Maddrassa.

    Reply
  174. lynne
    January 24, 2007 at 4:34 am

    The invitation to check out the dialogue between posters and commentors was extended to everyone. The people who post on Good Neighbors are totally committed to civil, rational dialogue, to discussing their everyday lives, hopes and dreams for the future, to commenting on the political situation, but most of all to fostering goodwill and caring among all the “neighbors” who call the Middle East home. The purpose is to HEAR and RESPECT other people’s perspectives and concerns, worries, fears, frustrations—not to push one’s own point or agenda. There is moderation on the site, though I don’t think it has ever been used. Once the spam detector held up a comment, but I don’t think that the moderation has never been needed. The goal of the site is to build good neighbors and to promote the well-being of everyone. Frankly, I cannot even imagine a discussion disintegrating into insults and rudeness.
    These are neighbors in the Middle East who value the idea of being supportive of peace and prosperity in the region.

    Reply
  175. lynne
    January 24, 2007 at 4:40 am

    Twosret, I completely missed the State of the Union Address…too busy with school. I shouldn’t be on the computer at all with everything that I have to have ready by tomorrow, so signing off. With kind regards,

    Reply
  176. Karen
    January 24, 2007 at 4:45 am

    Jason,

    No, I can’t always detect sarcasm when reading a computer screen. However, you and I both know that many Canadians regard themselves as superior to Americans and that bashing Americans is a favourite pastime for many of our fellow Canadians. So excuse me if I read you wrong.

    Reply
  177. Twosret
    January 24, 2007 at 4:53 am

    Lynne,

    Good luck with school and Neighbors blog, I’m happy to know about the Neighbor’s blog and would love to comment there when time permits. I haven’t blogged for almost a month busy with real life.

    Best wishes

    Reply
  178. USpace
    January 24, 2007 at 7:49 am

    Hillary is a mess, God save us…

    absurd thought -
    God of the Universe says
    Democrat corruption OK
    .

    Reply
  179. Berry
    January 24, 2007 at 2:26 pm

    Good news about Obama.

    Reply
  180. BrooklynJon
    January 24, 2007 at 3:07 pm

    Jason,
    “Well Craig, other than chest-thumping, trash-talking macho-ish innuendos on Egyptian blogs? Watching Springer perhaps? ”

    Well, as an intellectual and professional type, I still have to confess that there somehow is a certain mezmerizing effect of Jerry Springer. You don’t want to look at it, but somehow you can’t look away either. Perhaps if I were not a Yank, it would be different. I suppose I can accept that.
    But I think I could quit watching Springer if I wanted to. I just don’t want to.

    Two,

    “Hope you are liking London, I agree with you I was poking fun at BJ with a smiley face and there is no hate to America or Americans. ”

    Poking fun at me is too easy to be sporting. No matter; not only do I take no offense, I don’t even notice it.

    If only the various opposing sides in the ME could get out their aggression at each other by teasing one another on weblogs rather than blowing one another up. Sigh…

    Reply
  181. Twosret
    January 24, 2007 at 3:34 pm

    Yeah make sense BJ and if we can get Olmert on Sandmonkey instead of destroying Lebanon and killing and occupying Palestinians and their land the world will be much better place.

    I’m guessing you won’t take offense of my statement or even notice it :)

    Reply
  182. Twosret
    January 24, 2007 at 3:37 pm

    Berry,

    Yeah but would you think people who taunted him as liar will go away? no way, this wasn’t about which Islamic school he went to, this is about hate for Islam and Muslims. Hussein as a middle name will stay in the mind of the ignorant.

    Reply
  183. Craig
    January 24, 2007 at 4:44 pm

    So, even you admit he went to an Islamic School, Twosret? :P

    I agree with you…. there’s a lot more going on with his background than the questions about where he went to school. Even the CNN journalist who was jumping through hoops trying to prove it’s all just as Obama says seems to have gotten himself confused over how many years Obama lived in Indonesia. Not a good sign.

    Reply
  184. BrooklynJon
    January 24, 2007 at 7:22 pm

    Two,

    Take offense? No. Roll my eyes? Yes.

    So yes, send Olmert here. Please.

    Also, could we send war-provoking and civilian-shield-taking Nasrallah to the blogs? And the pizza bombers of Islamic Jihad? And the Hamas dudes showeing missiles on Sderot? And Holocaust-denying and saber-rattling AJ? And all the nice folk occupying the property in the Arab world that was owned by the Jews who were forced to take refuge in Israel in the last 58 years?

    Send all the occupying Jews AND ARABS, and all the violent Jews AND ARABS, and all the hateful Jews AND ARABS to the blogs.

    See how easy it is to be even-handed?

    bj

    Reply
  185. Twosret
    January 25, 2007 at 3:37 am

    BJ

    You must like Jerry Springer so much that you want to have it live daily on Sandmonkey. I would recommend Glen Bec to be your host :)

    Reply
  186. BrooklynJon
    January 25, 2007 at 4:46 am

    Nah. Springer is just too entertaining. But you’re right – all the hooting and hollering here does become a little Springeresque at times.

    Reply
  187. naomi
    January 25, 2007 at 5:09 am

    …man. venom then kissing & making up. Ain’t life grand and it’s really cool to be breathing today. Obama. Hillary. I voted for Kinky Friedman in our last election (state gov). I knew he wouldn’t win but fantacized how fun it would be if he did. Guess the point is this. Democracy is the best political system to endure, but it is NOT cheap entertainment. We are forced (via taxation, and jail if you don’t pay your taxes) to buy it. I say vote for the most entertainment you are “forced” to pay for, and leave it at that. Someone said “Washington DC is Hollywood for the ugly.” So always vote for the pretty ones — since we’ll have to look at ‘em for a few years. Problem is, there are so few cute ones ever running… Another writer said, “Government is a disease masquerading as it’s own cure.” This is the only thing I really know to be true. Pick a puppet and enjoy the show!

    Reply
  188. Jason
    January 25, 2007 at 5:23 pm

    Karen: “that many Canadians regard themselves as superior to Americans and that bashing Americans is a favourite pastime for many of our fellow Canadians”

    True and true :P There’s many an American who think their superior to us and everyone else in the world as well. Probably a greater ratio. Hell the US government certainly does. Re: NAFTA and the softwood lumber issue. (Which Harper sold us short imho, which is why a ‘mini-Bush’ does not a good PM make.)
    Oh and your excused :P

    BJ: Springer .. yeah, it’s kinda like driving by a car crash isn’t it LOL

    “no way, this wasn’t about which Islamic school he went to, this is about hate for Islam and Muslims. ”

    No, it was all about mud-slinging and ‘dirty’ campaigning. I doubt Obama will come out of this fight smelling pretty and wearing flowers either, Hillary just fired the first volley.

    Reply
  189. Jason
    January 25, 2007 at 5:27 pm

    Naomi are you advocating anarchy?

    Reply
  190. Karen
    January 25, 2007 at 7:13 pm

    Jason,
    “There’s many an American who think their superior to us” True, but they have many more reasons to feel this way, IMHO :) Also, Americans (the ones that I know and they are many) don’t waste their time bashing (putting down) people from other countries. I find negative people have an inferiority complex. They have to constatly put others down to build themselves up. Many Canadians feel inferior to Americans and thus the put downs. That being said, I love living up here in our Nanny State. But if I couldn’t live here the U.S.A. is where I would go.

    Reply
  191. Jason
    January 25, 2007 at 11:45 pm

    Oh do they? Really? You must be one of the types of Canadian that wants to be American then. Think their taxes are so much lower re: better, etc… but would probably maintain your OHIP coverage (or whatever provincial health plan) and get your ‘scripts filled here. {your = this type of Canadian}
    Sure they don’t ‘waste their time “bashing” ppl from other countries. All that France bashing is really done by Anglo-Canadians upset with Quebec. Maybe the reason behind that is that they barely think, let alone, ACKNOWLEDGE, that there is a world that doesn’t revolve around them. I’ll quote {paraphrase} Goldie Hawn from some damn 80s movie I’ve forgotten the name of “I’ve never been outside of the US. Well I’ve been to Canada, but that doesn’t really count.”
    The reason many Canadians put down Americans, other than their overly patriotic machoism begs for it, is that we are so innundated with American culture, with learning so much about the inner workings of their country. And have ‘virtually’ zero say, zero ‘pull’ to affect it. Our own institutions, rather than survive or die on their own, are constantly under comparison to those below us. Where, due mostly to corporate bottom-line profit motives, we get short-changed in many non-government cultural things (can’t think of the proper word). An industry that comes to mind is the magazine industry.
    You’d prefer live in USA than, say, Bahamas?

    Reply
  192. BrooklynJon
    January 26, 2007 at 12:03 am

    Jason,

    I have no idea what your talking about. I subscribe to “Eh?” magazine.

    And we play the Canadian national anthem at NHL games, even when there’s no Canadian team playing.

    BTW, our of curiosity, do they play the Star Spangled Banner when the Canadiens play the Maple Leafs?

    And while I’m at it, why are they called the “Maple Leafs” and not the “Maple Leaves”? Is “Leafs” a word in Canadian English?

    Reply
  193. Karen
    January 26, 2007 at 1:33 am

    No Jason, I am one of those lucky Canadians who has dual citizenship :p

    Anyways, I was already in one furball today over a parking space and don’t want to get into another one, ciao.

    Reply
  194. Jason
    January 26, 2007 at 7:28 am

    BJ wth is ‘Eh?’ magazine? Not as far as I recall do we bother playing US anthem when no US team is playing, of course I haven’t been to a hockey game since before Satan err Bettman became top dawg.
    Because Leaves Nation would just be stupid, silly! :P “Smythe, a military man, immediately had the Toronto franchise name changed from the St. Pats to Maple Leafs, the name of a World War I fighting unit, the Maple Leaf Regiment.”

    Reply
  195. Jason
    January 26, 2007 at 7:35 am

    Karen, did ya win?

    Reply
  196. Karen
    January 26, 2007 at 2:55 pm

    I’d say it was a draw. At the end of our “discussion” she told me I was being rude and I told her she was rude and then I walked away. Only problem is our kids go to the same schools so we see each other a lot.

    Reply
  197. BrooklynJon
    January 26, 2007 at 5:00 pm

    But did you get the parking spot?

    Reply
  198. Karen
    January 26, 2007 at 6:11 pm

    No, I did not because that would have involved me backing into her car and damaging my vehicle :). I was parallel parking with my signal on and she zoomed into the spot. Mind you it is more complicated than that because there was 3 point turn involving a stop sign and a u turn that preceded the loss of the parking spot (her and I). I had to settle for one 2 or 3 cars back which was no big deal except she could have taken that spot. So I knocked on her window and we had words. This morning we met up again at the grocery store in an aisle and had a “civil” discussion about it…each of us giving our side of the story. She said it was a small community, there should be no hard feelings blah blah blah and that was it.

    Reply
  199. BrooklynJon
    January 26, 2007 at 7:25 pm

    Karen,

    If I may be so bold, it sounds like you were both a little Arafat-esque, if there was another spot three car lengths back. This from someone who has (in the distant past) personally deflated someone’s tires when they stole my spot.

    Actually, my blessed mother did worse. Two girls in a sports car stole the spot my mother was trying to get into (large American car, small parking spot, very crowded shopping mall parking garage). Then they laughed at her as they walked into the mall. To quote my otherwise very proper mother, she got out her keys, and scratched “two very dirty letters into the hood of the car”. But, in New York, considering they didn’t require hospitalization, the girls learned an important lesson at a substantial discount that day.

    Personally, I’d let it go, but always carry a little sugar to put in her gas tank in case she ever does it again. ;-)

    Reply
  200. Karen
    January 27, 2007 at 12:58 am

    Jon,

    Arafat-esque? Like in selfish? You may be right. Don’t worry, I think we both will stay far away from each other now, but I will keep the sugar idea in the back of my mind just in case :)

    Reply
  201. Jason
    January 27, 2007 at 4:55 am

    Karen: “I’d say it was a draw.”
    BJ: “But did you get the parking spot?”
    Karen: “No, I did not”

    Sounds like ya lost then :)
    Heard something like a banana in the tailpipe …

    Reply
  202. Karen
    January 27, 2007 at 5:43 am

    Jason,
    In a male sort of way maybe I lost, but in a female way I did not (I did not provide you with ALL of the details). You would not understand. It was not just about “the spot”.

    Reply
  203. BrooklynJon
    January 27, 2007 at 9:02 am

    Ah, so it was her shoes then. :-)

    Jason,
    A banana? What a softie you are! That sort of thing doesn’t get you anywhere in NYC.

    Reply
  204. Jason
    January 27, 2007 at 12:54 pm

    Did she flirt with your man?

    Reply
  205. Karen
    January 27, 2007 at 3:59 pm

    Jon and Jason,

    No and no. Can we please stop already. I am trying to recover from the “events” of Thursday and Friday. I thank you in advance for your cooperation :)

    Reply
  206. Jason
    January 27, 2007 at 7:36 pm

    I don’t know.. what’s it worth to ya? :D

    Reply
  207. Karen
    January 27, 2007 at 8:42 pm

    A thank you?! :)

    Reply
  208. Wishbone
    January 27, 2007 at 11:33 pm

    Ahhhh…..

    And the thread ended Happily Ever After, with everyone smiling again.

    Hehe.

    Reply
  209. ashe
    January 31, 2007 at 4:41 am

    jesus was middle eastern.

    Reply

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