The Media anti-Shia campaign continues

Remember Ihab al Sharief, the egyptian diplomat that got kidnapped and killed in Iraq ? Well, the egyptian state-owned newspaper Al Ahram came out yesterday with a tiny blip that says that Iranian Intelligence agents are the ones behind his kidnapping and Murder, in an effort to limit Egypt's influence in Iraq. The report cites high diplomatic sources that wish to stay anonymous.

The blip also explains one more thing, and I am translating here:

" The high egyptian diplomatic sources have also declared that there are reasons for the question-raising egyptian/jordanian/ gulf support for the new american plan in Iraq, explaining that the egyptian support for the plan isn't baseless, but as an attempt to save fellow muslim brothers who are being ethnically cleansed, especially in Baghdad, on the hand of armed groups whose allegiance is known."

Nice, ehh?

So, if the armed groups aren't american, and the story talks about how the Iranians are killing egyptians, one concludes two things from this paragraph:

1) Shiites are not fellow Muslim Brothers. 

2) The Egyptian/Jordanian/Gulf support to the american plan is totally based on secterian reasons.

I know, I know, what's the news here? Ehh, nuttin new really. But it's good to hear the egyptian government declare it and make it official is all. Iran killed our envoy, the shia are not our Muslim brothers, and the Sunnis are getting ethnically cleansed by militant groups in Iraq that have knwon allegiances (hint, hint, nudge nudge).

My fellow egyptians, you will so be psychologicaly prepped for a war with Iran by the end of this year, it's not even funny. 

Comments

  1. As for us…

    We’re preparing. Civil war is in our backyard. All we need is a bigger sign and we’ll start killing each other like a bunch of wild squirrels.

  2. I saw this coming weeks ago when state propogandist Yusuf al-Qaradhawi began preaching about the unacceptability of having Shia influence spread in Egypt; his panties were in a twist because an Egyptian who became a Shia published a book condemning him. I’m not surprised that the Egyptian government–and others–should exploit this to further re-focus the ire of their people. After all, hating Shia in an almost exclusively non-Shia country is not exactly a brave thing to do.

  3. Maybe Egyptian Sunni’s will take out their anger on the Shiites instead of the Copts….eh, who am I kidding, all groups will probably be caught in the blender.

  4. @ Egypeter despite of the shortcomings of the civil rights situation in Egypt, you have to admit that the Copts ar the most empowered minority in the Arab world. There is no diference between a copt and another in Egypt as far as civil rights are concerned

  5. amre – you’re joking, right? You must be new here, huh?

    Did you miss the NEW book by Mohammed Omara in which he endorses the words of Sheikh Elghazaly and issues a fatwa that says CHRISTIANS ARE KAFFR/INFIDELS AND THAT IT IS OKAY TO SHED THEIR BLOOD AND POSSESS THEIR PROPERTY?

    Go read Big Pharaoh’s post right now! Or better yet, let me paraphrase:

    The following poll appeared on the website of Al Fajr, the popular weekly paper.
    وصف الدكتور محمد عمارة غير المسلمين بانهم ملحدون وكفره واباح دمهم وحياتهم فمارايك؟

    اوافق علي راية

    لا اوافق

    لا تعليق

    and the results were as follows:

    اوافق علي راية 2816 صوت

    56.5%
    لا اوافق 1893 صوت

    38.0%
    لا تعليق 269 صوت

    5.40%
    اجمالى الاصوات 4978

    —————————-

    So, if by “empowered” you mean 60% of Egyptians believe that it is hallal to shed Christians blood, then I’d agree with you.

    But don’t worry amre – you’re not the only person in Egypt who has their head buried in the sand. Most Egyptians would agree with you and bull shit themselves as well. How in the hell are Egyptians gonna ever solve their problems when they continually lie to themselves and deny that the problem even exists!!! Comments like yours are EMBARASSING to Egypt.

    “Empowered minority in the Arab world” LOL. What minorities?? The “minorities” of the “Arab” world have been in a long and slow extinction process over the last 14 centuries amre…but that probably suits you.

  6. The most empowered minority in the region are Syria’s Alawites. There’s only a tiny few of them, and they have the entire country under their boot.

  7. Come on Sandmonkey. Be honest. Isn’t war with Iran now or in the nearish future better than licking their Persian boots a decade or so down the road? As bad as Egypt is … its far form a Mullahocracy like Iran. Those crazy effers actually believe it is their god-given destiny to rule all Arabia. Either pick up a gun or bow. Your choice.

  8. Civil War? Don’t want to die? Be a US refugee!
    Ground rules for assimilation:
    1. Learn English.
    2. Don’t wear face covers. Covering one’s face equates criminal here.
    3. Bring money.
    4. Don’t have money? Bring skill. Nursing, technology, medical technology, chemistry, engineering, plumbing, auto mechanics, etc. Skill equals job. Better skill equals more money. Oh, no more taxi drivers please.
    5. Leave religious ideology at home. Freedom of religion is the LAW here.
    6. ASSIMILATE!!! We don’t do Sharia law, it’s US law. If you want to experience more freedom, you’re going to have to lose some things (like a big horn blowing 5 times a day to go pray in a certain way at a certain place). A big horn here means a tornado — run like heck! Plus, you can pray here 1000 times a day if you wish, or not at all. We are not all Muslim; we are MOSTLY NOT Muslim. We have inter-denominational prayer rooms for all faiths. If a custom of your faith is not the norm here, you’ll get stares.
    7. Women have equal rights. We learned to shoot to survive on the plains and learned to weld during WWII. You ain’t getting it back nor the income that comes with it. Get used to the idea fast — as it’s illegal to do what ya’ll do to gals there here. But it’s a heck of a lot more fun at the beach here. Look, don’t touch.

    Call me crazy but it never hurts to have a contingency plan ready.

  9. Olive Picker says:

    Marry Joan for real and get the fuck out of Dodge.

  10. This is my contingency plan: Make peace with Israel and reap from the benefits.: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5tDDkvXSI8

  11. Those crazy effers actually believe it is their god-given destiny to rule all Arabia.
    Scott
    You are wrong, the crazy Saudis believe its their destiny to rule Arabia.
    Majority of Iranians prefer to have better economy than to rule Arabia, which is in direct opposition to what majority of Egyptians/Syrians/Saudis and others want.
    Iranians may have ayatollah and Anatarinejad but overall they are much more “normal” then majority of egyptians/syrians/etc. Perhaps that’s because they already have the clerical rule, egyptians have not yet been ruled by the MB.

  12. Arabia = Arabian Peninsula

    A reminder for those who seem to be including Syria and Egypt as part of “Arabia”.

  13. @ Punique Arabia includes Lebanon as well. The phoenecians were semitic people whose language is very similar to Aramaic the predessecor of Arabic, besides, they spent their entire history as a client state for either Egypt or Babylon, it actually depended on whose side the tide was favouring. As for the maronite, the most reliable theory about their origin states that they were a syrianic tribe that immigrated to Lebanon from the middle of Syria……

    @Egypeter i agree with you those Rasputin like demagogues are ruining Egypt. But remeber, that noone ever has any sort of rights in Egypt Civil, uncivil or whatever, except maybe for the Pharoah and the Ammon priests haaaa

    Makram Basha obied was the prime minister of Egypt. The Goverbnment has 3 coptic ministers, the richest man in Egypt and the second most real business man in the Arab world after el-Walid is saweeris. The coptic rituals and prayers are aired on National T.V . If a copt fights with another over a piece of chokolate, the police will side with copt for fear of damaging the precious (already ruined) reputation of Egypt. Major army commanders are copts, prominent police chieves are copts. I agree that there many things are still missing. But just compare the copts to the Kurds, Assyrians and Shites inl ebanon or even non Arab speaking Blacks in Sudan………..etc and dont forget that we are living in sink of corruption, ignorance and poverty

  14. “Punique Arabia includes Lebanon as well. The phoenecians were semitic people whose language is very similar to Aramaic the predessecor of Arabic, besides, they spent their entire history as a client state for either Egypt or Babylon, it actually depended on whose side the tide was favouring. As for the maronite, the most reliable theory about their origin states that they were a syrianic tribe that immigrated to Lebanon from the middle of Syria……”

    Look, this whole idea of Semitic = Arabic that you Arab Nationalists have is false. I don’t know where you get it from. Arabs are semitic, yes. But they are just one many semitic peoples. The Arameans were semitic. Syriacs are semitic, Hebrews are semitic. But they weren’t Arabs. Just because Arabic imperialism led to the old languages of the region being almost extinct (Assyrians/Chaldeans and Syriacs are the only exception left) doesn’t mean that we are Arabs.

    And if say that semitic = arabic, then why would you include Egyptians and the rest of north africa as Arabs? They’re not of semitic origin. And why wouldn’t you include the Jews as Arabs. They are semitic.

    And Aramaic is not the predecessor of Arabic. Aramaic and Arabic existed together for a long time – with Aramaic being the universal language of the Fertile Crescent and Arabic being spoken in Arabia (and those few Arabs who lived in the Syrian desert, in places like Petra and Tadmor/Palmyra, having changed to speaking Aramaic) until Mohammed and the Muslim Arab conquests that followed. Then Aramaic became a marginalized language while Arabic took over since it was the language of the new rulers.

    So, in short, Phoenecians, Arameans, Akkadians, Assyrians, Chaldeans, Hebrews, and so on are/were all Semitic just like the Arabs, but they aren’t/weren’t Arabs. And the people of Egypt and the rest of North Africa aren’t even originally Semitic. Arabs just happened to take over everything and imposed their language, parts of their culture and then finally (in the last 200-300 years) their identity onto their empire.

  15. @ 13.amre El-abyad S:
    “f a copt fights with another over a piece of chokolate, the police will side with copt for fear of damaging the precious (already ruined) reputation of Egypt.”

    Sure man, they will, they always do that, so we had:Zawya El-7amra, Abo-Korkas, Kosk I, KoshII and Alex as samples of their love of copts.

  16. Yes Max – I agree with your fine examples.

    Checking back on those events that you’ve listed where Christians were killed in Egypt and justice was never served I can’t help but laugh at…

    “if a copt fights with another over a piece of chokolate, the police will side with copt for fear of damaging the precious (already ruined) reputation of Egypt.”

    THAT IS PURE UNADULTERATED BULL-SHIT!!

    The police is one of the main REASONS for so much of the sectarian violence in Egypt!! Are you kidding me guy? Do you remember the “police protection” during the Eid riots when women were getting raped in public while the police watched? Did you not see the “police protection” afforded to that guy who got sodomized with a wood pole??

    What Egypt are you talking about?? Some imaginary one in your head?

    Go look up those examples Max put up and then tell me Copts are protected by the law. Pure pure bull shit!! Get your facts straight.

  17. @ Punique it seems to me that you are a museum curator, who has recently devloped a sound interest in scifi, apparently, under the influence of the quantum leap show , you want travle back in time rechange the course of history and revive DEAD jurrassic cultures, that are phasing out, if not already dead. First of all, semitism is origin of Arabism.

    If you run over the history of the Arab world “near east” in comparison with similar experiences like the chinese and indian, you will definetly find out that differentials that exist in this world is by far less than those of the aSIAN GIANTS. Before i make my point clear. I just would like to add that the identity and history of Egypt is too complex to be simplified in the way you did. Genetically the Egyptians are Semites( North Africans belong to the same group) which means mediterenian Euro asians, however semitism is more oF A CULTURE

    The perconality of the Nile valley is so strong that it always gives the influence from the other pillar(mespotomia) its indigenous taint, so you could say Egyptian are special case of semitism and Egypt has never been a part of North Africa! which was barbaric lands back then, and even now the Egyptians are closer to iraqis and syrians than morrocans and lybians!.

    The levant with its numerous tribal nations acted as a bridge of ideas and culture between the pillars of the east Egypt and mesoptamia.The most Authentic and living cultural products of the Arab world chrisyianity, judaism and islam are all integral sums made in the levant of Egyptian believes trinity of osiris horus and isis the holy mother resurrection of osiris to heavens .Heaven and hell. And untill the 4 century A.d christians used the Egyptian Ankh for the cross ……..the other good stories of the old testment are fully and totally Babylonian and somerian.

    The Arabs of Arabia themselves are very different from the Levantine Semites, as from a scientific persepective they are a mix of mesopotamians Egyptians, levantine, pushed groups and nomads who arrived in Arabia and adopted the yemense or ka7tani culture which in itself is mix of Egyptian( Everything in this region starts from Egypt) and mesoptomian cultures! the Arabs then consolidated the near east and moulded its differential cultures and memries into one dominat cultural identity the semitic Arabism, after liberating it FROM THE CANCERGENIC GRECO ROMAN DOMINACE AND COLONIALISM which was on the verge of wiping out the the authentic identity of the near east.

    By the way the chinese 1000 years ago spoke totally different languages in different provinces, however eventually they drifted together. Basically because that is the natural course of things for people who share the same cultural system, civilisation and history. Arabism is the final and eternal chapter of an old eternal book!

    Punique, i really wish the christian Lebanese would be a part of Europe, i i cross my fingers that they accept you, especially the Australians and Canadians! for i think the maronite have a just cause because basically they are more related to Europe than the Arab world just lthey are the decendants of orientalised Greeks….

  18. Soooooo… in a Sunni v Shite war.. who to cheer for?

  19. “Genetically the Egyptians are Semites( North Africans belong to the same group) which means mediterenian Euro asians, however semitism is more oF A CULTURE”

    Exactly, it’s a cultural identity (the one part I agree with you on), and race is irrelevant anyway in my opinion. But it’s not the original cultural identity of North Africa. The Ancient Egyptians were a Hamitic, not a Semitic, culture, and the rest are a mix of many things, but to a large extent Berbers. Then the Arabs came along and brought the whole thing under their rule causing the language of the original inhabitants to change.

    “If you run over the history of the Arab world “near east” in comparison with similar experiences like the chinese and indian, you will definetly find out that differentials that exist in this world is by far less than those of the aSIAN GIANTS.”

    What’s you point? Why should we call everyone Arabs? Why not Semites? Sounds like a much better common label to me. Otherwise it makes just as much sense to call everyone Hebrews or Assyrians, Aramaeans. It makes about as much sense as it would to call all Europeans Germans. Truth is, even Scandinavians and the English (who are all Germanic cultures) aren’t called Germans.

    And would you agree that by your logic, Israelis should be regarded as Arabs as well?

    Also, while we’re talking similarities in languages. It’s easier for me as a Swedish speaker to understand Norwegians speaking than it is for me as Lebanese dialect speaker to understand Egyptians, and for most of the rest of North Africa I’d be lucky to catch a word here and there when they speak. And yet Norwegian and Swedish are considered separate languages while the “Arabs” still insist on claiming to have one single language…. :)

    “the Arabs then consolidated the near east and moulded its differential cultures and memries into one dominat cultural identity the semitic Arabism, after liberating it FROM THE CANCERGENIC GRECO ROMAN DOMINACE AND COLONIALISM which was on the verge of wiping out the the authentic identity of the near east.”

    The ones who, almost, wiped out the authentic identity of the Fertile Crescent (an area in which no one, aside from the inhabitants of a few city states in the Syrian desert, had ever refered to himself as an Arab ever before in history in Muhammed’s time) were the Arabs, and later, to an extent, the Turks. Almost everyone in the fertile Crescent used to speak Aramaic. Now there is only a tiny minority left (mostly Assyrians, and mostly in Europe, North America and Australia) and it’s shrinking by the day.

    Oh, and by the way, it’s Puniqe not Punique. Puniqe is the Syriac-Aramaic word for ‘Phoenecian’. It’s where the term the “Punic Wars” comes from.

  20. Genetically the Egyptians are Semites( North Africans belong to the same group) which means mediterenian Euro asians, however semitism is more oF A CULTURE

    That’s an untrue statement. North Africans (including Egyptians) are Hamitic. Not Semitic. As are Palestinians, by the way. Hamitic.

  21. Oops, sorry Puniqe… made my comment before I read yours. You already corrected him :)

  22. ella,
    If you check my syntax it is clear that I was speaking of the crazy Mullahs … not the Iranian people. However the people of Iran are the slaves of those mullahs whether willing or unwilling. One more generation and the Mullahs will have complete control.

    Since you all over there are utterly incapable of controlling your religious fanatics I personally, and a LOT of other westerners, am hoping for a war between the Saudi lead Sunis and the Iranian Shia.

    Sorry for all you moderates but you failed to take control of your governments in time. Now it is too late.

  23. Craig,

    What do you mean about the Palestinians being Hamitic though?

  24. Puniqe, just that scripturally, Canaan was the son of Ham, who the brother of Shem. Which by definition means they are (ethnically) Hamitic – though they spoke a semitic language.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaan

    Canaan is the father of Sidon, his firstborn; and of the Hittites, Jebusites, Amorites, Girgashites, Hivites, Arkites, Sinites, Arvadites, Zemarites, and Hamathites. Later the Canaanite clans scattered, and the borders of Canaan reached [across the Mediterranean coast] from Sidon toward Gerar as far as Gaza, and then [inland around the Jordan Valley] toward Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboiim, as far as Lasha.

    There’s no definitive history of the Canaanites though, so it could be in error.

  25. Oh, I should point out that the Palestinians may not even be the scriptural Canaanites. Some historians seem to think that the Palestinians were sea raiders who came from someplace else, as invaders. If that’s the case, then their origins are unknown.

  26. Scott, I’m not hoping for a shia / sunni civil war, myself. I don’t think that would be in anyone’s interest. A lot of people would die and the end result would be even more hate and more chaos than there is right now.

    PS-I’m pretty sure Ella is not Iranian… I think she said she is Polish at some time in the past.

  27. Ok, now I see.

    I think though that the stuff in the definitions that historians and linguistics use are a little different than the scripture. Basically, they just borrowed the terms to describe the two cultural groups in the area – Semitic for the dominant culture group in the Fertile Crescent and the Peninsula, and Hamitic for the cultural groups in eastern Africa next to them. The definitions are not based on a literal reading of the Torah/Old Testament.

    The only non-Semitic group from ancient times in the Levant that I can think of would be the Philistines, and I don’t think you can really say that the Palestinians are the descendants of the Philistines. If anything, many of them are probably descendants of jews and christianized jews who converted to Islam (or remained christian) or else they’re just a mixture of everything, including Arabs (who lived just next door even long before Muhammed and the Arab Muslim conquests). And even if they were descendants of the Pholistines, by the time of the Arab conquests everyone was quite Semitic in culture and speaking Aramaic in some form or other (even the nearby Arabs).

  28. “Scott, I’m not hoping for a shia / sunni civil war, myself. I don’t think that would be in anyone’s interest. A lot of people would die and the end result would be even more hate and more chaos than there is right now.”

    I agree. No one should be hoping for war.

  29. @ Puniqe i think you know very well that that Egyptian Dialect is the Joker in the middle east . All Arabs understand and speak Egyptian dialect very well, but the converse is not quiet true . Egyptians can understand east arabic dialects but cant speak it. The reason for this is the Egyptian cultural dominance in the Middle east in terms of films , Tv, litereture, education untill the seventies it was was the Egyptians educating all the Arabs except for the Lebanese and syrians ofcourse. Moreover the immortals institute in Cairo is the supreme authority of Arab language. And it was Egyptian who modernised the standard Arabic and purified it from medival influences. Furthermore it is taken for blind fact that it was the Egyptians who contributed the most in the Arabic cultural renaissaince in the 19th and 20th century. all ideas come from Egypt revolutionary thinkers, Authors artists, Taha hussien, om kalthoum, Idris Mahfouz( 4 noble prize winners and ten candidates). and in terms of industry though far behind israel there nothing in Lebanon or other that can be compared to Egyptian technolgy we make cars missiles, tanks, computers,.steel. Even Arab nationalism though the idea was launched by syrians . it was Nasser and the egyptians who liberated half of the Arab world that rinvented it and made it a tanglible realistic ideology. The problem with lebanese is that they cant stand living in the shadoww of the Egyptians

    Also it is impossible to say that Egyptians are Hamitic because those are basically BLACK barbaric people with nothing to offer. And Egypt is the oldest civilizations in history the inventor of Christianity. Those people with black skin or east African redish black skin are portrayed in Egyptian temples as slaves. And uptill now the word Hamitic, Sudanese, Berber in the Egyptian everyday language is used as slave(3bd) . am not racist, and i hate racism but am just stating facts. Besides, ancient Egyptian language is stucturally very close to Arabic:

    In the Egyptian language a 3-consonant structure dominates. By this it resembles modern Semitic languages, like Arabic and Hebrew. Short structures may consist of as little as 2 consonants.
    In brief, this system involves that a specific combination of 3 consonants contain a special meaning. By changing vowels and adding specific consonants at places, nouns and verbs of related meanings could be constructed.
    And since vowels were not written, the reading of Egyptian script is complicated, and victim to misunderstandings. Two different words could well be written similar.
    The syntax structure of Egyptian was Verb-Subject-Object, while most modern languages may put the subject first, the verb in the middle.
    Egyptian had 2 genders, masculine and feminine. Masculine had no ending to the root form, feminine was indicated by “-at.”
    Equal to modern Arabic, in addition to singular and plural it had the dual form.
    There was no normal form of verb conjunction, rather action was indicated by prefixes or suffixes

    The racist orientalist dogma supported by the the fact that all think tanks exist in the west are imposing certain mental constructs on the world. For if the Ancient Egyptian culture was to be associated with Arabic culture that would raise it up so many levels.And make it responsible for literally 75% of what makes up humanity.

    ONE MORE POINT TO SHOW THE FALLCIES OF ASSOCIATING EGYPTIAN with hamitic is checking the OLD TESTAMENT WHICH LITERALLY SAYS THAT THE PHOENECIANS ARE SONS OF “HAM” THE BLACK SHEEP. which is indeed rediculous(however it could be true given the chaotic sectarian strucure of lebanon which is very similar to east African mambo jumbo nations). And if the Egyptians were hamitic how come they COLONISED PHOENECIA FOR ONE THOUSAND YEARS HAAAAAA.

    Also the EGYPTIANS CANT UNDERSTAND A SINGLE WORD FROM MORROCAN ALGERIAN OR TUNISIAN .moreover, they consider the lebanese dialect to be distorted Arabic……

    And indeed there are ethnic minories in the Arab world Just like red Indians in the United States, Black Nubians reservations in the extreme south of Egypt, Syrianics and Assyrians in lebanon and Iraq. The staus quo clearly revels that the NEAR EAST IS TOTALLY ARABIC

    About the genetics of Ancient Egyptians RUN AND CHECK THE FOLLOWING LINKS WHICH CLEARLY STATES THE EGYPTIANS ARE MIDDLE EASTER WESTERN EURO ASIAN MIDDLE EASTERNS OR aRABS IN ANOTHER STUDY.

    http://www.geocities.com/enbp/genetics.html

    http://www.racialcompact.com/racesofhumanity.html

    BESIDES, THE ENTIRE UPPER EGYPT WHERE MY FAMILLY COMES FROM IS MORE ARABIC THEN ARABIA IN WHICH THE ARABIC GENES WAS DILUTED BY MIXING WITH INDIANS and PERSIANs IN ADDITION TO THE EFFECT OF THE PETRODOLLAR. Given the isolated and tough nature of upper egypt that made it totally immune against Turkish, and Mediterrenian influences in addition to the dominant semi tribal racist structure of societY over there which considers anything not ARABIC TO BE INFERRIOR( I HATE THIS AND I DONT AGREE ON IT AS I DESPISE RACISM)…AND according to ARAB LINGUISTICS THE UPPER EGYPTIAN DIALECT IS THE CLOSEST TO THE OLD QURAISHITE DIALECT

    ha en bra dag

  30. Craig Says:”Oh, I should point out that the Palestinians may not even be the scriptural Canaanites. Some historians seem to think that the Palestinians were sea raiders who came from someplace else, as invaders. If that’s the case, then their origins are unknown.”

    If you mean the Philistines, they were probably related to the Greeks actually.

    Craig Says:”Scott, I’m not hoping for a shia / sunni civil war, myself. I don’t think that would be in anyone’s interest. A lot of people would die and the end result would be even more hate and more chaos than there is right now.”

    How could there be more chaos and hatred than there is right now? I would draw a parallel with the Cold War. As long as the Arabs had two camps to choose from, half of them chose one, half the other, and then they fought it out amongst themselves. The rest of the world was left alone more or less. The problem for the West came when the Soviet Union collapsed and all the Arab Muslims agreed they hated us. As long as the Sunnis hate the Shia more than Americans and the Shia, Sunnis, we won’t get bombed because they will be too busy killing each other. This is already what is happening in Iraq. Tribal politics always breaks down into two equally sized camps. Time to accept the reality and use it to our advantage. I say we should be giving aid to the Shia about now.

  31. amre – Did you just say:

    “Besides, ancient Egyptian language is stucturally very close to Arabic”

    WHAT? Are you serious?

    That comment is categorically W-R-O-N-G! Pharonic language is very close to Arabic??!?! Where did you get that one, Al-Azhar?

    There is ONE reason and ONE reason only that colloquial Egyptian Arabic is completely and totally unique to every other dialect of Arabic. And since you’re Egyptian I would have hoped that you knew the real answer…

    The answer is because of COPTIC!

    The Coptic language, which by the way, was widely spoken by Egyptians (not Arabs) up through the first millenium. That would be at least 400-500 years of Egyptians speaking Coptic side by side with Arabs speaking Arabic. It wasn’t until after the Crusades that Egyptians (again NOT Arabs) adopted Arabic – a VERY VERY VERY sore point with me!!!!! The reason is because the Arabs viewed the Copts as the Crusaders, because of their religion, and the mistrust and animosity that the Muslim Arabs had for the Christian Egyptians steadily rose. It wasn’t until the Arabs started cutting out the tongues of those who spoke Coptic that the Copts adopted Arabic. Sadly, Egyptian Arabic liturgical texts first start appearing in the 13th century and the slow decline of the Coptic language began. Thank God we preserved the language in our liturgy at least…

    I can give you a list of thousands of ‘Egyptian’ words that are unique to Egypt that come STRAIGHT from Coptic – This is a subject that my mother finds VERY fascinating.

    It saddens me that Egyptians really have no idea about their history (and we’re talking about Egypt of ALL places, lol). It’s as if the ENTIRE world started in the year 642 AD. Everything prior to the seventh century never existed, well, except for those strange pyramids and temples all over Egypt.

    If the ancient Egyptian language is “very close” to Arabic then why did Champollion use the Coptic language as the missing link to decipher the Hieroglyphs and not Arabic??? It is because Copts and the Coptic language (not the Arabs or Arabic language) are DIRECTLY descendant from the Pharaohs!! That is a FACT.

    Arabic has absolutely nothing to do with the language the Pharaoh’s spoke.

    And if you would like references for ANYTHING I said I would be more than happy to oblige…

  32. HeiGou,

    This is already what is happening in Iraq.

    And you’d like what is happening in Iraq, to spread all over the ME? Sorry, HeiGou, I’m not with you on this one. Terrorists thrive in such environments. Lebanon during the 1980s, Iraq right now, Afghanistan until recently, the Palestinian territories.

    Amre El-Abyad, you are mixing a lot of concepts, and stating a lot of things as fact that are easily dismissed. Your claims about Arab origins don’t hold water, either scripturally or historically. Or linguistically, for that matter.

  33. @ Egypeter if you say that colloquial Egyptian is close to coptic, then how come it is very easily understood by all Arabs? dont tell me it is like learning a new language from the scratch, or else, one would quiet easily learn Japanese by watching Japanese movies haaaaaaa

    I said the ancient Egyptian had a structure similar to Arabic which is an undeniable is fact(leaving alone the 100000 common direct word) and you can check the similarites i i mentioned in my comment with a professional. I didnt say it was Arabic.there is big difference.

    However, Arabs are ethnically closer to Ancient Egyptians than copts because copts are mix of Greeks, coshite Ethiopians who ruled Egypt from 900 bc toll 700 b.c, hebrews and persians and coptic language uses greek alphabet andis closer to ancient greek han ancient Egyptian.

    Please EGPeter quit claiming that you are the only one who is Egyptian and the rest are not. Also quit accusing everyone who disagrees with of being ignorant of Egyptian culture. Well, that attidude of yours proves my point that Democracy is not suitable for the Arab mind including the copts who are Arabs, at least because they speak Arabic as their mother language, and their culture and ways is very similar to moslems which in turn is similar to the rest of the Arab world

  34. Hey guy, you’re wrong, wrong, wrong, and wrong. Just about everything you said is incorrect!

    “I said the ancient Egyptian had a structure similar to Arabic which is an undeniable is fact” – Wrong. “Structure similar to Arabic?” What are you even talking about?

    “However, Arabs are ethnically closer to Ancient Egyptians than copts because copts are mix of Greeks, coshite Ethiopians who ruled Egypt from 900 bc toll 700 b.c.” – Wrong. Copts ARE the sons and daughters of the “ancient Egyptians” NOT the Arabs who came over in the 7th century? Where does such nonsense come from?????? Really. That is straight up propoganda that you must’ve been fed in some Arab/Islamic school…The Arabs that came to Egypt are ethnically closer to the Copts than the Copts themselves, interesting arguement you got there Amre.

    “hebrews and persians and coptic language uses greek alphabet andis closer to ancient greek han ancient Egyptian.” -Wrong. But, yes, the Coptic language does use Greek script, but that’s where the similarities b/w Greek and Coptic end. Just like the Persians and Pakistanis who use Arabic script. Are they Arab as well??

    And finally:

    “Well, that attidude of yours proves my point that Democracy is not suitable for the Arab mind including the copts who are Arabs, at least because they speak Arabic as their mother language, and their culture and ways is very similar to moslems which in turn is similar to the rest of the Arab world” – WRONG. But I do agree that Arabs are somewhat incapable of democracy. But, again, Egyptians ARE NOT ARAB…ESPECIALLY the Copts! And just because a language was imposed on us does not make us Arab. Australians speak English, does that make then ethnically British? What kind of logic is that?

    “hebrews and persians and coptic language uses greek alphabet andis closer to ancient greek han ancient Egyptian.” Wrong. Look, it’s quite simple Amre. The Coptic language (not Hebrew or Persian) comes down DIRECTLY from the Pharaohs. It’s THAT plain and simple.

    “Please EGPeter quit claiming that you are the only one who is Egyptian and the rest are not. Also quit accusing everyone who disagrees with of being ignorant of Egyptian culture. Well, that attidude of yours proves my point that Democracy is not suitable for the Arab” – Well, your attitude here proves MY point. That most Egyptians are CLUELESS about their heritage.

    I claimed that I was the only Egyptian?? Where did I say that?

    What I did say is that Copts are not Arabs. And THAT is a fact. And do you know what else, Amre? Most Egyptian muslims (some estimates up to 80%) are direct descendant from Copts, which means they are NOT ARAB as well. Speaking Arabic and practicing Islam does not make one an Arab. Here’s a shock for you Amre and I’m sure it will pain you to realize that you, yourself (if you’re truly Egyptian), are most probably descendant from Coptic blood. I know it hurts for you but it’s true.

    Here, I’ll make it easy for you Amre – Here’s the Wiki link on the Coptic language, read it and enlighten yourself so you can understand where Egyptians come from…

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coptic_language

    Here’s the first paragraph from wiki which validates much of what I said:

    “The Coptic language is a direct descendant of the ancient Egyptian language which was once written in Egyptian hieroglyphic, hieratic, and demotic scripts. The Coptic alphabet is a slightly modified form of the Greek alphabet, with some letters (which vary from dialect to dialect) deriving from demotic. As a living language of daily conversation, Coptic flourished from ca. 200 to 1100. The last record of its being spoken was during the 17th century. Coptic survives today as the liturgical language of the Coptic Orthodox Church. Egyptian Arabic is the spoken and national language of Egypt today.”

  35. Craig Says:”And you’d like what is happening in Iraq, to spread all over the ME? Sorry, HeiGou, I’m not with you on this one. Terrorists thrive in such environments. Lebanon during the 1980s, Iraq right now, Afghanistan until recently, the Palestinian territories.”

    Well as long as they hate each other I don’t much care what else they do so whether they fight or not is irrelevant. As long as the bubble of “Arab Unity” is poped and any potential Iranian-Arab alliance is derailed. I doubt that terrorists do thrive in such environments. Lebanon imported its terrorists from Jordan. They were not produced locally. Iraq is also importing terror. Afghanistan proves that with enough fighting people will accept peace at any price – the opposite of what you claim. Terror is a product of middle class intellectuals. Not violence. Not oppression.

    And the fact remains: as long as they are too busy hating each other to kill us, they won’t be busying killing us.

  36. HeiGou,

    Imad Mugniyah

    You think he comes from Jordan? How about Hassan Nasrallah? Jordanian? I would agree with you that the civil war in Lebanon started when the PLO entered from Jordan. But that Civil War gave birth to Hezbollah, in 1982, and Hezbollah is STILL a plague on the earth, all these years later.

    I just don’t agree with you on this. It doesn’t make any sense to assume terrorists won’t attack the west if they are busy fighting each other. That isn’t the history.

    I’m not opposed to taking direct action against terrorists… and states that support terrorism. I just don’t see much that is to be gained by sectarian civil wars and the resulting failed states. Although, I suppose it could be argued that an Iraq that was a “failed state” would be no worse than Iraq as it is today.

  37. i made made a mistake, i ment copts are mix of ethiopians, greeks, persians and hebrews. so the Arabs are ethnically colser to ancient Egyptians than copts. Ancient Egypt died in 900 B.C with the koshite invasion followed by Lybians, Assyrians and finally the Greeks who managed to imposed their culture on Egyptians, consequantly the hybrid coptic Language evolved.

    During Roman and later on the Byzantine era, the Greeks started to humble themselves and mix with the indigenous population whom they considered inferior. It hadn’t ben untill the Moslem era, that the Greeks strated to get fully assimilated into the bulk of population. And if you want to be fair and square…. which i perconally doubt, not because you are inherently bad, rather it is a matter of your Ultra- conservative, narrow-minded, fanatic religous upbringing, you have to admit that the Arabs saved the copts from the systematic Byzantine GENOCIDE. Thereofre, you must be thankful to the Arabs…………

    It is very clear to me that you have no education at all, as you are totally incapable of making a consistant argument and istead you REFER TO YOUR MOTHER’s passion for alchemy roddent eaten books and fanatic coptic rehtoric, in order to justify your yelling and shouting. It is not a matter of genetic deffieciency though. Most probably it is due to erred upbringing and education.

    You just opt to respond to the threads you like, while you totally disregard the rest, mainly because of your petrified constricted mind. By the way, the copts are more conservative than the muslims in Egypt.

    Moreover, you main argument is centered around vocal ryming of the word WRONG WRONG WRONG followed by a thourough explaination of the correct spelling of WRONG which is , as it were, spelled out as follows: W, R,O,N and G la lala…………..lala and by the way wrong IS GHALAT IN ARABIC……..basically that’s why you decidedly conclude that my argument is invalid…….haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

    Fianlly i would like to tell the Jewish friends here that we now have a common enemy ……………Iran and the fanatic Najad haaaaaaa

  38. @ 22 Scott
    However the people of Iran are the slaves of those mullahs whether willing or unwilling.
    I disagree, iranians are not the slaves of mullahs

    Since you all over there are utterly incapable of controlling your religious fanatics I personally, and a LOT of other westerners, am hoping for a war between the Saudi lead Sunis and the Iranian Shia.
    LOL.
    I am not living over there, I am living over here.

    Craig

    You are right. I am definitely not iranian.
    I am still polish, though.

  39. HeiGou @35

    You are quite wrong. They hate each other in Iraq, some shia hate sunni and some sunni hate shia. But majority of both sunni and shia hate the west (or at least US, UK and Israel) with equal passion .
    And if you want to cheer up for shia, you are wrong. If you want to cheer sunni you are equally wrong. The Hizbullah (shia), the pasdaran(shia), SCIRI (shia), Sadrists (shia) all are talking about their hatred of the west and the US. As for giving aid to Shia right now, that would only play into the hands of Iranian mullahs.
    Craig already said that better but I will repeat. Don’t think that fighting with each other will prevent shia or sunni from launching terrorist attacks against the west.
    You are claiming that terror is a product of middle class intellectuals, you are wrong. Terrorist ideology is product of middle class intellectuals, terrorists themselves came from different social classes. You are also forgetting muslims who are living in the west. They will not target other muslims, they will blame everything going on in the ME on the west and focus their activities accordingly. They are your “middle class” terrorists.

  40. Dude Amre – You’ve got NO FUCKING CLUE what you’re talking about.

    What clinched it for me, besides your countless spelling and grammatical errors, was this part right here:

    “which i perconally doubt, not because you are inherently bad, rather it is a matter of your Ultra- conservative, narrow-minded, fanatic religous upbringing, you have to admit that the Arabs saved the copts”

    That one is a doozy…”fanatic religious upbringing” LOL :)

    This one is especially stupid too:

    “i ment copts are mix of ethiopians, greeks, persians and hebrews.”

    Where do you get suck stupid fucking nonsense??? SHOW ME YOUR REFERENCES so I can laught at them!

    Get your history stragiht dip shit! I gave you the link. Did you read it? YOU are telling ME one who I am????? Idiot!

    The Copts should be thankful to the Arabs. WOW!

    You’re a typical fuckin’ Egyptian aren’t you? Take your Azhar shit someplace else no one here is buying it!

  41. Craig Says:”Imad Mugniyah: You think he comes from Jordan? How about Hassan Nasrallah? Jordanian? I would agree with you that the civil war in Lebanon started when the PLO entered from Jordan. But that Civil War gave birth to Hezbollah, in 1982, and Hezbollah is STILL a plague on the earth, all these years later.”

    I think he is likely to be a Palestinian and got his start in Fatah at any rate. Nasrallah has surfed the wave of violence to come out on top. I expect that the IDF invasion gave birth to Hezbollah – but look at Lebanon now. They have fallen into sectarian fighting *between* Muslim sects – it is basically Sunnis vs. Shia. Good for us. People have died, but not Westerners and not even Lebanese Christians. Better for us. It does support my point, sort of. When the West (in the shape of Israel) was the only real enemy, they all fought Israel. Now they are fighting each other and Hezbollah is too busy to fight Israel. Good.

    Craig Says:”I just don’t agree with you on this. It doesn’t make any sense to assume terrorists won’t attack the west if they are busy fighting each other. That isn’t the history.”

    They only have so much explosives and so much money. They ain’t going to waste it on secondary targets. I think that explains the behaviour of the Middle East during the Cold War perfectly – they did not love us, in fact they hated us, but as long as they hated each other (brought on by alliances with the USSR) more, we had “friends”. They will never like us kafirs and we should not try to force them to. But they will go on hating each other.

    ella Says:”They hate each other in Iraq, some shia hate sunni and some sunni hate shia. But majority of both sunni and shia hate the west (or at least US, UK and Israel) with equal passion .”

    But if given a choice between the kafirs and the rafidis, they kill the rafidis. Attacks on Americans have not been rising in Sunni areas. Attacks on Shia have. The vast majority of deaths are not of Americans, but poor Shia. Whatever they say when it comes down to it more Sunnis would prefer to die taking some Shia with them than Americans.

    ella Says:”The Hizbullah (shia), the pasdaran(shia), SCIRI (shia), Sadrists (shia) all are talking about their hatred of the west and the US.”

    Although none of them are doing much about it right now. The Shia have been fairly restrained and restricted themselves to killing Sunnis.

    ella Says:”As for giving aid to Shia right now, that would only play into the hands of Iranian mullahs.”

    Indeed. And scare the crap out of Saudi Arabia and Egypt who might come to reconsider their support for anyone but the US. Who knows, they might even offer some real aid – even soldiers.

    ella Says:”Don’t think that fighting with each other will prevent shia or sunni from launching terrorist attacks against the west.”

    The Cold War did not prevent all attacks on the West, but it prevented many of them and won America some real friends (in so far as anyone in the Middle East makes friends with anyone else – people more sacred of Communism than they hated the West at any rate. Close enough to being a friend). This is just a way to return to the good old days.

    ella Says:”You are claiming that terror is a product of middle class intellectuals, you are wrong. Terrorist ideology is product of middle class intellectuals, terrorists themselves came from different social classes.”

    Well historically that has not been the case. Terrorists are overwhelmingly educated members of the Middle class. Unless they are Fascists. Which is why, I assume, Egypt and Palestine have so many and Sudan and Morocco do not. But we seem to agree the intellectuals are the problem.

    ella Says:”You are also forgetting muslims who are living in the west. They will not target other muslims, they will blame everything going on in the ME on the west and focus their activities accordingly. They are your “middle class” terrorists.”

    Indeed they are. However they will blame the West for everything anyway. A donkey farts in Upper Egypt and it is our fault. There is no point even listening to them because they have nothing rational to say. I have a solution for them as well of course. Israel’s policy works well.

  42. @ Heigu and Ella what do you mean? by middle class terrorists . Am a muslim arab middle class man who goes to church to attend the weddings of coptic friends in Cairo. I live in Sweden now and all my friends are scandnavians and western Europeans. My worst nightmare is an islamised Egypt. As, that it means the end of everything i love and appreciate in this country. But ,if i say that the i hate colonialism and i hate unjust foreign policies… which is by the way no execuse for turning blind eye to the constriction and stagnation of Arab culture…. that makes me a terrorist? i dont understand!? and if i call for the revival of a modern Arab civilsation, does that necessarily make me anti western?……….. there is HUGE big difference between criticising certain stereotypes or unjust practices and solicitising terror. Actually what you are doing is terror …….when you start using this pre-canned accusation against anyone of an Arab ethnicity because of having a different way of thinking…………….

  43. @egpeter you are a fanatic crazy rat…….. a typical low life chicken who is good at nothing by ryming like Egyptian “baladi”women haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa most probaly under the influence of your dominant mother who has turned you into a pathetic young man incapable of thinking for himself.

    Am positvely sure you are waty and ahlak wtyeen wa min 3ilah watyah

    yes i should tell who you are, and i have tell your mother who she is as well. Because apprently you are both ignorant petrified Jurrasic mummies. who should be kept on shelves in museums. I have a duty towards you as a fellow egyptian to teach how to behave like human beings not cows

  44. Amre – My fine feathered fundemetalist friend. Cursing will get you nowhere, really. I’ve heard it all before from people EXACTLY like you.

    Go back and read the nonsense you wrote:

    -Ancient Egyptians were Arabs.
    -The Christians of Egypt are the ones that are the fanatics
    -Ancient Egyptians were really Hebrews and Persians and Ethiopians.
    -Copts are the most empowered minority in the middle east.

    And then my personal favorite and the one that shows your TRUE colors:

    -Copts should thank the Arabs

    And then you try and qualify how tolerant you are by saying that you go to Coptic weddings. LOL. Heard it before. You see many Egyptian muslims see the mere fact that because there are indigenous Christians walking and breathing in Egypt that Copts have not and are not persecuted/oppressed. Sheer stupidity.

    Oh, and another thing. Quit playing the “older card” on me. You’re not physically older than me, and mentally, you’re quite a bit younger. Just looking at your blog and profile makes me laugh. Let me paraphrase:

    “I’m an Egyptian man carrying on his shoulders the Burden of a glorious Arab Past that goes back 10,000 years in history”

    10,000 years of Arab history, huh? Are you aware of how ludicrous that is? You defy history! Would you care to explain that to the rest of us? So, if I went back 3000 years ago and asked Tut if he was an Arab he would tell me “yes,” correct? Crazy shit man :)

    Look son, I hate to break it to you but you’re either Egyptian or Arab NOT BOTH. Speaking Arabic and practicing Islam doesn’t make one an Arab…can you understand that?

  45. @egpeter you are hopeless case! you shouldnt be left unleased. Am sure that you bite. However, am quite doubtful whether a suitable vaxime is yet available…..

  46. @ Egpeter by the way, i drink wine and i eat pork, yet i still consider myself a muslim (because i think for myself idiot). However, am sure that you stick literally to the coptic Outdated version of christianity— which is actually closer to islam than it is to western churches

  47. I must agree with Egypter on that purpose, that is how history is teached in archeologic classes everywhere in the world , uhe, where are my degrees ? :)

  48. BrooklynJon says:

    Egypeter,

    The best part about debating with amre is the little gems like

    “those are basically BLACK barbaric people with nothing to offer….[I] am not racist, and i hate racism but am just stating facts.

    And all the “haaaaaaa”s are amusing.

    Bottom line: Arabs – good. Everyone else – inferior scum, but I am not a racist.
    Islam – good. Everything else – sucks, but I am not prejudiced.

    And,
    Colonization – bad, people should stay where they come from. Moving to Scandanavia and spouting my venom while enjoying the benefits of the secular liberal welfate state – good. Please pass the gravalox.

  49. BrooklynJon says:

    “egpeter you are hopeless case! you shouldnt be left unleased. Am sure that you bite. However, am quite doubtful whether a suitable vaxime is yet available”

    I love insults like this! It reminds me of Monte Python and the Holy Grail:

    You don’t frighten us, English pig-dogs! Go and boil your bottom, sons of a silly person. I blow my nose at you, so-called Arthur King, you and all your silly English k-nnnnniggets…I don’t wanna talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper! I fart in your general direction! Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!

  50. Amre – I’m sure there are plenty of suitable vaxime’s for me :) and I sure as hell ain’t the one that’s “hopeless”.

    And I coldn’t give a shit that you eat pork and drink wine. Good for you bro. And then you attacked me and my faith by calling it “outdated”. Which in and of itself is an obviously IGNORANT comment as I am sure you don’t know SHIT about Christianity!!

    BrooklynJon:

    Two things:

    First, these “Amres” are a dime a dozen in Egypt. The shit people like him say doesn’t bother as much as it astonishes me. It’s as if some people are fed an alternate history of the world (10,000 years of Arab history??)…it’s so bizzare to me. And ya know what, he probably IS one of the less fundemental ones…HOW scary is that?

    Secondly, if you ever do decide to take up that quest for the Holy Grail let me and Brave Sir Robin know, we’d love to join ya…I’ll be the dude in the background with the coconuts and fake horse :)

    I get tons of name-calling, and I love it…it’s when I know I hit a nerve :)

  51. And in post #46 Amre said:

    “However, am sure that you stick literally to the coptic Outdated version of christianity— which is actually closer to islam than it is to western churches?”

    I mean that is an INCREDIBLE GEM!!!

    But you were partly right, I defiitely stick very very close to my Coptic faith and community and I am one of the proudest Copts you’ve never met.

    But the SHEER and UTTER IGNORANCE of a statement like that boggles my mind! I’m not sure which one is more absurd, your theory on 10,000 years of Arab history or that Coptic Orthodoxy is more similar to Islam than Roman Catholicism or Protestantism.

    You’re special aren’t you Amre?

  52. BrooklynJon says:

    “I get tons of name-calling, and I love it…it’s when I know I hit a nerve ”

    You know you’re over the target when you start catching flak.

  53. a la Memphis Belle?

  54. HeiGou,

    “I think he is likely to be a Palestinian and got his start in Fatah at any rate.”

    Little is known about his adolescence as he did not attract the attention of analysts until 1976 when he joined Yasir Arafat’s Force 17. His role at that time was as a sniper, targeting Christians across the Green Line. At some point he spent a year at the American University of Beirut.

    Yasser Arafat was in Lebanon in 1976. In fact, 1976 is when Palestinians committed the Massacre of Lebanese Christians at Damour.

    This man is not Palestinian. He is Lebanese Shia.

    Nasrallah has surfed the wave of violence to come out on top. I expect that the IDF invasion gave birth to Hezbollah

    No. Amal existed long before the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 1982. Hezbollah was formed as an Iranian-backed adjunct to Amal. Amal and HA both represented Shia sectarian interests IN THE CIVIL WAR. Not in a fight against Israel. HA didn’t give a damn about Israel until the late 1980s.

    - but look at Lebanon now. They have fallen into sectarian fighting *between* Muslim sects – it is basically Sunnis vs. Shia. Good for us.

    And Amal and HA both were enemies of Sunnis (and Palestinians) during the civil war. Seriously. Go check some wikipedia links. And some of the worst terror attacks against America, happened during the 1980s. Committed by those Lebanese that you think were too busy fighting each other to attack the US. Well, they did. The 1983 Barracks bombing in Beirut was the single biggest loss of life in a terror attack, prior to 9/11.

    And you know what? That guy whose link I gave you was the most likely planner of that attack, and of majority of the hostage taking in the 1980s.

    He’s still in Lebanon. And he’s still in Hezbollah.

    Now they are fighting each other and Hezbollah is too busy to fight Israel. Good.

    Again, I say, this is not historically accurate. The history is that when terrorist groups start taking hard knocks, they go after easier (and more popular) targets, to bolster their image. It’s all about their street cred. Without street cred, they got nothing.

  55. BTW… to Nomad, if you are reading this:

    Various law enforcement agencies have attempted to capture Mugniyah. The United States tried to secure his capture in France in 1986, but were thwarted by French refusal to detain him.

    Thanks!

    Mugniyah has been formally charged by Argentina with participating in the March 17, 1992 bombings of the Israeli embassy in Buenos Aires, which killed 29 and the AMIA cultural building in July 1994, killing 86 people. He has been accused of orchestrating the 2000 abductions of three Israeli soldiers in the southern part of Lebanon and kidnapping of Israeli businessman Elchanan Tenenbaum, and the more recent attack on Israel, killing 8 soldiers and abducting two.

    I bet the Argentinians would like to thank the Republic of France, as well!

    Recent articles by the Counter-terrorisim Blog, and by The New Yorker Magazine[12][13], suggest that Imad Mugniyah recently attended a meeting between Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. Mugniyah was there representing Hezbollah in Lebanon. According to the same articles, Mugniyah has been informed that he is currently at the top of a US Military and CIA assassination list. For this reason he is said to avoid certain areas of Beirut for fear of being killed by CIA SAD paramilitary operatives, or US Special Operations Hunter/Killer teams.

    Go, CIA, go!

    And how cool would it be if we find out what building he is in while he’s with Syria, meeting Ahmadinejad and Assad? We could always say that we had no reason to believe the President of Syria and the President of Iran would be meeting with one of the most notorious terrorists in the world, right? So, it wouldn’t be *our* fault if they had a little collateral damage mishap, right?

    I bet that would stir up some shit, wouldn’t it? And it’d be a lot better than fomenting civil war. Might even look like a little like justice served.

  56. Mr Craig, sorry, I have no time to check your dires right now,
    I bet I could find some weird comportments in US vs France claims for a prisonner rappatriement too

  57. OK, Nomad, if you can, please do! I will do my best to draw attention to it! The US released a Hezbollah guy a few years ago who should have been in prison the rest of his life, and I’m not a fan of such things. At all!

  58. Well historically that has not been the case. Terrorists are overwhelmingly educated members of the Middle class.
    But if given a choice between the kafirs and the rafidis, they kill the rafidis. Attacks on Americans have not been rising in Sunni areas. Attacks on Shia have. The vast majority of deaths are not of Americans, but poor Shia. Whatever they say when it comes down to it more Sunnis would prefer to die taking some Shia with them than Americans.
    Wrong explanation. Given the choice between the kafirs and the rafidis, they will not make the choice, they will try to kill both. Attacks on americans have not been rising in sunni areas simply because the americans partially protect them from shia death squads. Shia do not kill so many americans because americans do not, at the moment, prevent them from getting the power they did not have. Majority of death in Iraq are both poor sunni and poor shia. And richer sunni and shia are fighting for now for power in Iraq.

    Although none of them(SCIRI/sadrists/pasdaran) are doing much about it right now. The Shia have been fairly restrained and restricted themselves to killing Sunnis.
    Not completely true. Pasdaran is giving weapons/bomb triggers to shia and some of the bombs exploding on the wayside are difficult for americans to notice because of the methods used in triggering the bombs. SCIRI and sadrists are right now fighting for power and don’t have time to fight americans. They would get to it when one of them will get complete primacy in the government. They also kill sunni because of the fight for power, the more sunni killed the less sunni will be in iraq. Not to mention common variety bandits who kidnap/kill indiscriminately, but that is different story

    ndeed. And scare the crap out of Saudi Arabia and Egypt who might come to reconsider their support for anyone but the US. Who knows, they might even offer some real aid – even soldiers.
    Are you crazy? KSA people in Iraq? That would be slaughterhouse. If KSA will send soldiers there is certainty that Iran will send ones, too.

    The Cold War did not prevent all attacks on the West, but it prevented many of them and won America some real friends (in so far as anyone in the Middle East makes friends with anyone else – people more sacred of Communism than they hated the West at any rate. Close enough to being a friend). This is just a way to return to the good old days.
    Sorry. Read some more of the Cold War and about arab states during that time. Or perhaps you are talking about shah-in-shah and his friendship with America?

    Terrorists are overwhelmingly educated members of the Middle class. Unless they are Fascists.
    Wrong. Historically that has been the case. The russian terrorists, (the ones who fought czar) had ideologists from the middle and upper classes, but the ranks consisted of many so-called “lower classes” .
    If you look at post second world war terrorists in Germany and in particular in Italy they also had in their ranks people who can hardly be called “middle class”. True, in Germany majority of them were disgruntled middle classes, but not all of them belonged to that group.
    Which is why, I assume, Egypt and Palestine have so many and Sudan and Morocco do not. But we seem to agree the intellectuals are the problem.
    Sudan and Morocco have some, particularly Morocco. If middle class is the problem why there were/are so many terrorists coming from Pakistan and why there are so many in czecznia?
    And, no, I do not agree that intellectuals are the problem. The problem is ideology not the intellectuals.

  59. Craig Says:”This man is not Palestinian. He is Lebanese Shia.”

    He is silent about his origins which remain unknown. He was a member of Fatah in his youth. What suggests he was a Lebanese Shia and not a Sunni Palestinian?

    Craig Says:”No. Amal existed long before the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 1982. Hezbollah was formed as an Iranian-backed adjunct to Amal. Amal and HA both represented Shia sectarian interests IN THE CIVIL WAR. Not in a fight against Israel. HA didn’t give a damn about Israel until the late 1980s.”

    Yes but Amal was not a religious party until al-Sadr took it and made it one from which Hezbollah grew. Amal still isn’t more or less a religious party. It is a party of the Zaims and the middle class. Isn’t my point that if given a choice between their Arab brethren and the West, they’ll choose to kill their brothers? Of course they didn’t give a damn at first. Too busy killing Christians. And Sunni Palestinians.

    Craig Says:”And Amal and HA both were enemies of Sunnis (and Palestinians) during the civil war. Seriously. Go check some wikipedia links.”

    But that is not true. Hezbollah started as an anti-PLO, and hence anti-Sunni, movement but as they came to hate Israel a little bit more, Hezbollah joined the other Muslim sects in fighting the Christians.

    Craig Says:”And some of the worst terror attacks against America, happened during the 1980s. Committed by those Lebanese that you think were too busy fighting each other to attack the US. Well, they did. The 1983 Barracks bombing in Beirut was the single biggest loss of life in a terror attack, prior to 9/11.”

    But notice the extreme circumstances of that attack – America was unprepared for one. America sought to end all the fighting for another. Thus preventing Hezbollah from doing what it wanted to do. America also sided with the Christians – then Hezbollah’s enemies.

    Craig Says:”Again, I say, this is not historically accurate. The history is that when terrorist groups start taking hard knocks, they go after easier (and more popular) targets, to bolster their image. It’s all about their street cred. Without street cred, they got nothing.”

    I don’t think that is the case and besides, Israel is not an easy target. Nor is the US Army. A bunch of Shia workers gathering in a square is. History says that when terrorist groups take knocks they go after the easy and cheap targets – look at the REal IRA. Civilians are the easiest of all.

  60. ella Says:”Wrong explanation. Given the choice between the kafirs and the rafidis, they will not make the choice, they will try to kill both.”

    I know of no historical evidence to suggest that would be the case. They have to make choices. They will try for the most cost-effective targets and besides, the Sunnis are there forever. The Americans are going home.

    ella Says:”Attacks on americans have not been rising in sunni areas simply because the americans partially protect them from shia death squads.”

    Indeed. The Sunnis accept such protection because they hate the Shia more than the Americans.

    ella Says:”Not completely true. Pasdaran is giving weapons/bomb triggers to shia and some of the bombs exploding on the wayside are difficult for americans to notice because of the methods used in triggering the bombs.”

    I am not sure the Iranians are giving those just to the Shia. But there are attacks on Americans I admit.

    ella Says:”SCIRI and sadrists are right now fighting for power and don’t have time to fight americans. They would get to it when one of them will get complete primacy in the government. They also kill sunni because of the fight for power, the more sunni killed the less sunni will be in iraq. Not to mention common variety bandits who kidnap/kill indiscriminately, but that is different story”

    Indeed. Isn’t this my point entirely? They know the Sunnis are a greater problem, and they have greater hatred, and so they are fighting them rather than the Americans. All the US has to do is make sure no one side wins.

    ella Says:”Are you crazy? KSA people in Iraq? That would be slaughterhouse. If KSA will send soldiers there is certainty that Iran will send ones, too.”

    Well Iran is sending them already, but of course the US Army will prevent that. I dobut the KSA will send any – but they might pay Egypt to send some.

    ella Says:”Sorry. Read some more of the Cold War and about arab states during that time. Or perhaps you are talking about shah-in-shah and his friendship with America?”

    The Shah, the Saudis, Sadat, Saddam, all of them. Not one of them liked the US or had anything other than hatred for the kaffir. But the US was useful and they were, and some still are, willing to go along. The US has no Muslim friends. Anywhere. Never has. Nor has any other European country. They hate us all too much for that. At best they will go along with us as long as we hate their enemies and give them money.

    ella Says:”Wrong. Historically that has been the case. The russian terrorists, (the ones who fought czar) had ideologists from the middle and upper classes, but the ranks consisted of many so-called “lower classes” .”

    So let’s go through all the convicted terrorists in recent times. The Baader Meinhoff gang is putting two up for parole. Middle class or workers?

    ella Says:”If you look at post second world war terrorists in Germany and in particular in Italy they also had in their ranks people who can hardly be called “middle class”.”

    This would be amusing if I hadn’t very carefully pointed out the fascists are different – a working class movement when it comes to terror.

    ella Says:”If middle class is the problem why there were/are so many terrorists coming from Pakistan and why there are so many in czecznia?
    And, no, I do not agree that intellectuals are the problem. The problem is ideology not the intellectuals.”

    Ideology effects intellectuals. Not the illiterate. Even Pakistan has a middle class. Chechnya produced a large middle class in the Soviet days. And what is the background of so many of the Chechen terrorists if not midde class?

  61. @Brokjlyn Jon

    now i have to admit that debating with you with real fun. For, you are much more reasonable and fun to talk to than that peter pam egpeter thing. Man1 he actually reminds of a cockroash developing a superiority complex haaaaaa.

    Now jon we can be allies and crack down on the freak Najad a little bit.what do you think about that pal?

  62. @ egpeter go back to Ethiopia where you belong………….haaaaaaaaaaaa

  63. @ egpeter am sure you r mother had a relation with a muslim man that’s why you are so furious! man am not angry at you nor am i mad. Actually am laughing like hell now, as i enjoy exposing your ignorance(watyanak) stupidity and fanaticism. betar( isnt that how your mother call you bettar haaaaaaa).am also sure that go to the gym on regular basis to make up for your inferirity complex which you quiet amazingly have turned into a superirty facade. Am also sure that you do mud wrestling.

    I have a good suggestion for you: why dont you make your mother divorce the muslim man?…….get her to get dressed like kamomba TiTi Nefertiti, and since you are seemingly a big fan of king TUT have a king Tut costume designed especially for you. You know! a friend of mine is the director of Hungarian circus, he will get you a job there as clowns, pay you a good salary( there is a premium forextra services) as well as free accomodation with horses in the stable, so you can use the horse shaft instead of rubbing the bishop haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

  64. Craig

    your lecture is through pro-neocons’ sources, I couldn’t find one neutral which clames that purposely Frenchs government made an obstruction to get Mugniyah, plus I doubt that Mitterand who is known not to be weak when it comes to terrorism or war would have let him go free if he really could have had him

  65. Amre – ARE YOU A FUCKING RETARD????? Do you need help putting on your socks and shoes in the morning?

    Your stupid humor is impressing nobody on this blog except for maybe yourself.

    Get a life you loser! There aren’t many on this blog that are going to agree with your views. Take your shit elsewhere.

    And why do you keep attacking my mother? Because I mentioned her earlier? And weren’t you the one that was playing like he was so old and mature earlier in one of your threads?

    Look, dickhead, you’re OBVIOUSLY new here. Learn how shit works before you try and make alliances here like you’re trying to do with BrooklynJon. I’m pretty sure BrooklynJon thinks you’re as much of a dumb-fuck as I do…lol…so good luck bro.

    WHAT ON GOD’S GREEN EARTH ARE YOU TALING ABOUT???? Your comments make zero sense.

    “Go back to Ethiopia??” What are you talking about???? You’re not really that stupid are you? Please explain.

    And what does “haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa” mean? Is that supposed to be a dip-shits equivalent to “lol?”

    Do you realize your proving my earlier points by posting your silly nonsense?

    And one final thing Amre, if you ever visit Chicago look me up…cuz I would love to beat the shit out of you with my shoe. You ARE ARAB, right? Isn’t that a big insult for YOU arabs? Cuz it’s not so insulting for us Ethipiopians…

  66. @ egpeter seriously speaking, am going to chicage in easter i would love to meet you there.

    i have 3 questions for you and i hope i will get clear specific answers

    1) where did the Ancient Egyptians come from?
    outer space, evolvement in a vaccum, Mexico….. all the previous answers are not to be accepted……………

    2) what leagal and institutional measures you think should be taken, in order to satisfy you, as he most proud copt in the world…..according to what had mentioned in one of your previous comments…………

    3) if Egypt is something on its own! then what do you think is the closest culture to the Egyptian one…………… to what civilsation does Egypt belong?

    BETTAR, i wont talk about my INCOME, education or job, because am sure you wont be able to take it….especially that you are garboo3 wa ibn garabee3 and something like that will make your poison run all over your body

  67. Amre is living proof that you have to be jerk to live in the West and still believe in that pedophile warlord johnny come lately Mohammed. Even Moses makes Mohammed look like a fool. Compared to Jesus he’s a low grade moron with sick sexual proclivities. I can make excuses for Arabs living in the intellectual wasteland of their homelands. They just have no avenue to awareness. But to live and work in the free west … and still believe the childish nonsense of islam …. absurd. Brain obviously shut off.

  68. Amre,

    1) where did the Ancient Egyptians come from?

    Try looking up the word “indigenous” :P

    2) what leagal and institutional measures you think should be taken

    I’m not sure what this is in reference to… something Egypeter said, I assume. But I’d say that the Arab world could start with implementing the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

    3) if Egypt is something on its own! then what do you think is the closest culture to the Egyptian one…………… to what civilsation does Egypt belong?

    Egyptian culture, is Egyptian. Egyptian civilization, is Egyptian. Egypt was one of the great civilizations of the past. Everyone knows this. EVERYONE. How is it, that you do not? When you learned World History, was the great civilization of Egypt just…. skipped?

  69. Here ya go Amre -

    1)The ancient Egyptians are from kemet/Aegyptus/Egypt. Where the hell else would they be from? For some odd reason you think ancient Egyptians are from Ethiopia or something, which in turn makes me laugh…sorta like your “10,000 years of Arab history” idea.

    2)If you’re talking about Egypt, then I, as the world’s proudest Copt, would like to see ALL Egyptians treated with equality, respect and dignigty. I would like to see Egypt run a civil secular democracy. But instead, Egypt is being turned into Saudi Arabia and the Ikhwan are succeeding in transforming once proud Egypt into an Islamic state.

    3) I don’t really get your question. To what civilization does Egypt belong to? I think YOU might be implying the “Arab” one. And right now, in 2007, you’re unfortunately right. But historically the Arabs have NOTHING TO DO with making Egypt one of the greatest civilization on earth…it was the Egyptians that did that. And in fact, you’ll find that Egypt (Alexandria) was one of the most relevant cities in the world (early Christian theology) up until the Arabs invaded and moved the capital to Cairo…and that quickly eliminated Alexandria from the world stage. So, for 3500 years prior to the Arab civilization, when Egypt reached the height of its glory, Egypt was Egyptian.

    And finally that last paragraph is hysterical. Please Amre, do not embarass my poor little self with your knowledge and income as I am sure I am not as intelligent and successful as your mighty self…even though you claim “10,000 years of glorious history” :) You do have that on your profile don’t you?

    And for the record you imbecile – Apparantly, unlike yourself, I can pronounce my “p’s”

  70. Nomad,

    your lecture is through pro-neocons’ sources

    I quoted from Wikipedia. Is Wikipedia a creation of neocons?

    I couldn’t find one neutral which clames that purposely Frenchs government made an obstruction to get Mugniyah, plus I doubt that Mitterand who is known not to be weak when it comes to terrorism or war would have let him go free if he really could have had him

    I won’t bother trying to find other references, Nomad. It’s interesting that Mugniyah is one of the EU’s most wanted terrorists, when the EU does not even recognize Hezbollah as a terrorist group, wouldn’t you say?

    And wouldn’t you say that in itself, is disgusting? Considering how many EUROPEANS Hezbollah has victimized!?

    And the reason Europeans don’t recognize HA as a terror group??

    France. France, and it’s pandering to it’s Lebanese “interests” – I know this makes you angry, Nomad, and I’m sorry about that. But sometimes, the truth hurts.

  71. HeiGou,

    Craig Says:”This man is not Palestinian. He is Lebanese Shia.”

    He is silent about his origins which remain unknown. He was a member of Fatah in his youth. What suggests he was a Lebanese Shia and not a Sunni Palestinian?

    The fact that he was born to a Shia father in Lebanon, in 1962? The fact that he was a founding member of Hezbollah, dating from 1982, and is still an active member of Hezbollah? Is Hezbollah a Palestinian Sunni organization?

    Your willingness to believe the unbelievable leaves me at a loss for words.

    What do you base this idea that he is a Sunni Palestinian, on? He was 14 years old wehn he joined Yassir Arafat’s bodyguard detail in 1976. In case you don’t know, there weer Libyans, Iranians, Syrians, Algerians, Lebanese and others, fighting for Yassir Arafat in Lebanon, in 1976. Are they all Palestinians, too?

    Of course they didn’t give a damn at first. Too busy killing Christians. And Sunni Palestinians.

    And Americans. And French. And other Westerners.

    Craig Says:”And Amal and HA both were enemies of Sunnis (and Palestinians) during the civil war. Seriously. Go check some wikipedia links.”

    But that is not true. Hezbollah started as an anti-PLO, and hence anti-Sunni, movement but as they came to hate Israel a little bit more, Hezbollah joined the other Muslim sects in fighting the Christians.

    How did your comment refute mine?

    But notice the extreme circumstances of that attack – America was unprepared for one. America sought to end all the fighting for another. Thus preventing Hezbollah from doing what it wanted to do. America also sided with the Christians – then Hezbollah’s enemies.

    And with the Palestinians. The purpose of that peacekeeping mission was to evacuate Yasser Arafat and his 12000 PLO fighters from Lebanon, so that Isreal would withdraw. That was done. And Hezbollah didn’t attack until it was. The absense of Arafat and the PLO gave HA a power vacuum that they couldn’t resist.

    I don’t think that is the case and besides, Israel is not an easy target. Nor is the US Army.

    Israel is an easy target. How hard would it be for HA to start raining rockets down on Israeli cities, again?

    A bunch of Shia workers gathering in a square is.

    So are western tourists. And if history the history tells us anything, it’s that theer will be no shortage of dumbass Americans and Europeans who think it’s cool for them to work and/or travel in the ME, no matter how many of them get murdered or taken hostage. People are stupid that way. It’s the old “it can’t happen to me” syndrome. I remember back in the 1980s, every time somebody would be taken hostage in Lebanon I was like “WTF!?”

    History says that when terrorist groups take knocks they go after the easy and cheap targets – look at the REal IRA. Civilians are the easiest of all.

    Yes. God help the tens of thousands of westerners who live in the ME.

  72. This would be amusing if I hadn’t very carefully pointed out the fascists are different – a working class movement when it comes to terror.
    It is amusing that you do not read carefully what I written.
    If you look at post second world war terrorists in Germany and in particular in Italy they also had in their ranks people who can hardly be called “middle class”.”
    I did agree with you about Baader Meinhof. However memebers of Brigade Rosse (hardly a facist outlet) consisted not only of the “middle class” but also of workers and so-called “lower clases”.
    History of terrorism does not begin and end in Europe and present terrorist groups and members of terrorists group can not be put into one box.
    What about People’s War Group (India), Sendero Luminoso (average members were peasants), groups from Indonesia, Malesia (Jemaah Islamiya), Pakistan (don’t tell me that Lashkar-e-Taiba, Harakat ul-Jihad-i-Islami or Jaish-e-Mohammad members are middle class people). What about LTTE or Tamil Tigers of Sri Lanka?
    And the following statement is &*(%^&$.
    Ideology effects intellectuals.Not the illiterate
    You mean all followers of Muhammad were literate ? All followers of communism could read and write? Followers of Mao consisted only of intelectuals? Taliban fighters are all middle class people able to read and write? All members of HzT are literate? Czeczenia terrorists are all literate and the middle class?
    Excuse me, but after such statement we have nothing to discuss.

  73. ups got all in italic. sorry. Will try to post again.

  74. Craig

    The European Union lists him as “Senior Intelligence Officer of HIZBALLAH”.

    Actions of law enforcement
    Various law enforcement agencies have attempted to capture Mugniyah. The United States tried to secure his capture in France in 1986, but were thwarted by French refusal to detain him.
    The United States tried to detain him several times afterwards, the first being a 1995 attempt to detain him as the plane he was traveling on was supposed to stop in Saudi Arabia. However Saudi officials refused to allow the plane to land and he was not captured. The next year US military personnel planned to seize him off a ship in Doha, Qatar, but the operation was called off.

    seems you took your sentence out of that, nah ?

    seems to me that you could not have him from where you stand too

    anyway is a wikipedia a trustful and histirical source ?

    so far no, as every penguin can write on it

    so far, your taken allegation is only on english sites purposely anti-frenchs

    France. France, and it’s pandering to it’s Lebanese “interests” -

    what do you mean ? we support HBZ ?

    not more than your goverment does

    ah yes, our UN bataillon, so far we are not alone there, tell me how many countries are there ?

    not yours, but your country made sure we should be there

    and why can’t your country be there ?

    that’s all blabla

  75. italics>/i> off?

  76. italics off? Crap

  77. Nomad,

    seems you took your sentence out of that, nah ?

    What’s your meaning there? That the Saudis didn’t co-operate either? So, the French are no more un-helpful than the Saudis? Or are you trying to say the US does not REALLY want to capture or kill this man? That’s absurd. He’s been on the FBI 10 most wanted terrorists list for decades.

    seems to me that you could not have him from where you stand too

    Then it seems wrong, to you. If we can capture or kill him, we will. There is a 5 million dollar bounty on his head. If we can determine his location, he is a dead man. Even if he’s in the French embassy in Lebanon, if I had my way.

    anyway is a wikipedia a trustful and histirical source ?

    You impune any source that doesn’t comply with your French version of events, Nomad. We’ve had the same problem, before :)

    That’s why I am not going to bother with other references. I recall you saying all the European papers weren’t covering events in France accurately because of bla bla bla (stole that from you :P )

    so far, your taken allegation is only on english sites purposely anti-frenchs

    All English language sites are “anti-French” I guess, eh?

    Like I said, we’ve had this problem before, you and me. You keep quoting what’s said in French papers and dismissing everything else.

    what do you mean ? we support HBZ ?

    Yes, you do. It was France that lobbied so hard to keep Europe from recognizing HA as a terrorist group. I don’t know why. Do you? If so, please explain.

    not more than your goverment does

    My government wants Hezbollah destroyed, to the last man. My government has had Hezbollah listed as a terror organization since 1983.

    Can you say the same?

    I think we had a discussion last year about this, when Hassan Nasrallah went to meetings with the French Ambassador in the French embassy, in Beirut.

    How can you explain this? That’s like Osama bin Ladin meeting with Condoleeza Rice!

    ah yes, our UN bataillon, so far we are not alone there, tell me how many countries are there ?

    tell me who is leading the UN mission in Lebanon? And the aforementioned incident with Nasrallah meeting with French diplomats was long ebfore the war with Israel he started last summer.

    Tell me what kind of deal France made with HA to ensure that French troops will not be attacked in Lebanon? Hezbollah killed French troops before.

    not yours, but your country made sure we should be there

    My country will never go to Lebanon again, unless it’s a mission of war, with the intent of destroying Hezbollah. The last tiem we sent peacekeepers to Lebanon, 241 of them weer murdered. Why isn’t France’s attitude the same? You lost 56 peacekeepers on the same day.

    and why can’t your country be there ?

    I just told you. We are at war with Hezbollah and Al Qaeda and every other terror group. How ridiculous would it be, for American troops to be providing a shield for a terror organization that we are at war with?

    that’s all blabla

    It’s French hypocrisy that is all “blabla” Nomad. France’s position re: Lebanon and re: Hezbollah cannot be explained, in a way that makes sense to me. You play kissy face with the murderers or French nationals. It’s lunacy.

  78. may-be Nasrallah came in french embassy, so what ?
    since there is a french embassy in Lebanon, and that HZB members were in Siniria government, Nazrallah being their official representant, and last war not erupted, they appear to have a recognition in Lebanon, so far embassies are not there to make war but to make civilised coktails, so does yours ;

    by the ways what for Condi was lately in Lebanon ?
    and I was told that Ben Laden was invited more than a few times in a texan ranch !

    your papers are not more trusful than ours in the lately years for sure !
    and I will provide you a poll that says it

    find someone else, your too touchy

  79. may-be Nasrallah came in french embassy, so what ?

    So what? So, he’s the leader of an international terrorist group, that’s “so what” – but France doesn’t recognize HA asa terror organization, does it? Oh well.

    since there is a french embassy in Lebanon, and that HZB members were in Siniria government, Nazrallah being their official representant, and last war not erupted, they appear to have a recognition in Lebanon, so far embassies are not there to make war but to make civilised coktails, so does yours ;

    So, you invite a terrorist criminal into the French embassy, just because that terrorist group has support in the host country? Is that supposed to make me feel better about France’s commitment in the war on terror?

    Oh, but it doesn’t matter, because France doesn’t consider Hezbollah to be a terrorist organization! Never mind!

    Incidentally, I brought this up because you asked whether I thought France supported Hezbollah. Guess what? I do think that. For good reason.

    by the ways what for Condi was lately in Lebanon ?

    Not meeting with Hassan Nasrallah!

    and I was told that Ben Laden was invited more than a few times in a texan ranch !

    You were told wrong, then.

    your papers are not more trusful than ours in the lately years for sure !
    and I will provide you a poll that says it

    I disagree. See that nonsense about Osama being invited to meet US Presidents for an example of the silliness that French people are exposed to by their media.

    And it isn’t only English language media that you object to. It’s all non-French media. I have shown you articles that were published in Denmark and Norway and Holland that you called “nonsense” as well. Even though they were saying teh exact same thing that everyone else’s media was saying. Except France’s!

    find someone else, your too touchy

    On this, I am touchy. I have been, since 1983. I will be, until the day I die.

  80. Craig , your right ok, wer the evils and your the good man who knows all about is going on, you wanna have the last word, have it, I don’care… fortunately your not in diplomacy !

    take a break , go andsee if your cat is not pissing on your neighbourg’lawn, may-be he should !

  81. Hey amre – Have you read Sandmonkey’s newes post on why Christians are fleeing the ME?

    Here, let me paraphrase for you from the article:

    ———————————-

    “When Egyptians elected a new parliament in 2005, the ruling National Democratic Party included only two Copts on its list of 444 candidates — and today only one cabinet member, the finance minister, is a Coptic Christian. Sidham faults the party for promoting this way of thinking. “The party says that candidates were elected because of their religious affiliation. Copts stand less of a chance. So why put forward Copts as candidates in the first place?”

    “This sort of persecution is nothing new in Egypt. When Napoleon’s troops advanced into the Nile delta in 1798 and occupied Egypt, they noticed strange customs. Coptic women were required to wear one blue and one red shoe. The men were permitted to ride on horseback, but only facing backwards. The French quickly realized that the Copts were subjects “de troisième classe” — third-class citizens. Some continue to feel that way today.”

    —————————————————-

    Oh, and what was it you said earlier? Let me go grab it…

    “Egypeter despite of the shortcomings of the civil rights situation in Egypt, you have to admit that the Copts ar the most empowered minority in the Arab world. There is no diference between a copt and another in Egypt as far as civil rights are concerned”

    and

    “(i)f a copt fights with another over a piece of chokolate, the police will side with copt for fear of damaging the precious (already ruined) reputation of Egypt.”

    After reading about how Egyptian muslims made Egyptian Christians were different colored shoes and required the men to ride their horse backwards…do you still wanna stick by your original comments?? Doesn’t sound too different from the Star of David Jews were required to wear in Nazi Germany, does it amre?

  82. http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=15336

    2005 freedom of press

    france 30th

    US 44th

    http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=19388

    2006 freedom of press

    France 35th

    US 53th

  83. “I’m pretty sure BrooklynJon thinks you’re as much of a dumb-fuck as I do…lol”

    Hope so, or I’ll lose all respect for him. :P
    But seriously Amre.. WTF?!?!

  84. BrooklynJon says:

    Jason,

    I don’t like to engage in name-calling. I’ll let my earlier statements speak for themselves.
    Haaaaaaaaa.

    ROFLMAO!

  85. Does that turn italics off?

    ella Says:”I did agree with you about Baader Meinhof. However memebers of Brigade Rosse (hardly a facist outlet) consisted not only of the “middle class” but also of workers and so-called “lower clases”.”

    Actually I am inclined to doubt that they did. They look like the usual array of over-indulged University students to me. Which members are you thinking of?

    ella Says:”History of terrorism does not begin and end in Europe and present terrorist groups and members of terrorists group can not be put into one box.
    What about People’s War Group (India), Sendero Luminoso (average members were peasants), groups from Indonesia, Malesia (Jemaah Islamiya), Pakistan (don’t tell me that Lashkar-e-Taiba, Harakat ul-Jihad-i-Islami or Jaish-e-Mohammad members are middle class people). What about LTTE or Tamil Tigers of Sri Lanka?”

    Sendero is a perfect example of what I mean. There is a distinction to be ade between terrorist groups and guerilla groups. Most of these groups have grown beyond terrorism into rural-based guerilla groups. Where did SL start except in the Philosophy department of a Peruvian University among White Upper Middle Class students – and incidentally when that upper class White leadership was captured, the indigenous rank and file deserted and went home suggesting their motivation was not that strong. I’ll give you money that People’s War is led by a few school teachers. Lower middle class perhaps, but not workers. I think the jury is out on Islamic groups at the moment, but I think my rule is still likely to apply. Osama is not a worker. He is a typical upper middle class university educated terrorist. Fir right in with the Baader Meinhoff gang

    ella Says:”You mean all followers of Muhammad were literate ? All followers of communism could read and write? Followers of Mao consisted only of intelectuals? Taliban fighters are all middle class people able to read and write? All members of HzT are literate? Czeczenia terrorists are all literate and the middle class?
    Excuse me, but after such statement we have nothing to discuss.”

    Of course as long as they had Muhammed they did not have to be literate – they followed the man, not the book. Only after that did Islam become an ideology as jurists worked to put together what Muhammed had said and done. The leaders of the Communist Parties of the world were and are literate middle class intellectuals. One of the reasons Stalin got to be leader was that he was the closest they could get to a working class member of the Party – unlike those horny handed toilers of soil like Trotsky and Bukharin. Same with Mao. For whatever reason ordinary people join Communist Parties once they have power, when they are in exile, they are made up of a solidly literate, middle class membership.

    I expect that all the Taleban (not that I accept they were terrorists) and Hibz ut-Tahrir are literate. What does Taleban mean after all?

  86. http://web.naharnet.com/default.asp

    “Italian Major General Claudio Graziano arrived in Beirut on Monday to take over the command of the U.N. Interim Force in Lebanon.

    Graziano was received by senior Lebanese army officers at Rafik Hariri international airport in Beirut.

    He is due to take over as head of UNIFIL in a ceremony on Friday, replacing French General Alain Pellegrini, UNIFIL officials told Agence France Presse.

    Graziano served from July 2005 to February 2006 as commander of the multinational Kabul Brigade which forms part of the NATO-led international force in Afghanistan.

    Graziano, an infantry officer, is also a mountain warfare and ski instructor and is airborne and Ranger qualified. He has served in Mozambique and Afghanistan and has been deputy chief of staff for operations at Italy’s Joint Operations Headquarters since March 2006.

    Italy has the largest number of troops in UNIFIL with about 2,500, about one quarter of the force’s total strength.

    UNIFIL, which was set up in 1978 to monitor the border between Israel and southern Lebanon, was beefed up in the wake of last summer’s war between Israel and Hizbullah.

    The task force is now made up of 12,000 peacekeepers from 28 countries.

    Also on Monday, the last batch of 173 Qatari troops arrived in Lebanon to join UNIFIL, bringing the total number of the Gulf state’s contingent to 203 troops.

    Qatari troops represent the only Arab contingent.(Nahrnet-AFP-AP)”

    in case

  87. @ Egpeter well, everything you mentioned is correct. If it were up to me i wish Egypt were prosperous, rational, secular place where everyone is equal infront of the law, people are rich and happy. But you know very well, how retarded we are and how miserable our economy is …dont you?

    The full rights of copts is function of how rational and advanced our society is.
    Unfortunately, that is not the situation at the present! 38% are illetrate 30% of population is living by $1 a day………no need to go through the well known figures. Nothing is working in Egypt. Dont get me wrong brother, i dont give a dam an Egyptian is a copt Buddist or whatever.

    I also know that many things are missing for copts. Still, despite of all our troubles, you can hear copts speaking out loudly in Egypt, you can see coptic police chieves and army commanders…… and dont talk about things in the 19th century……..the overall picture is that things were improving, for instance you had makram obied as prime minister of Egypt! which was the first time in the entire Muslim world!…….However, from 1977 onwards, things have been going from worse to worst….. and Everything in Egypt is moving backwards…………..

  88. @ brooklyjon

    Am realy astonished at your arrogance. I put my hand forward to you as a sign of good intentions, yet you treat me with arrogance and racism .

    I was hoping that by becomong allies and parteners, I wouldn’t dare to say friends because i know you think that you are from the chosen race and am worthles, dirty Arab, you as a right wing Jewish Israel supporter and me a pan arab nationalist, we would have given the entire blogsphere a beautiful example of coexistance and humanity…….

  89. @ Jason

    i cant understand why do you disrespect me so much! Anyway, i will just aske god to forgive you! for you have done yourself harm only to yourself by putting me down and insulting me………

  90. to whom it may concern

    « The war has given the American mainstream media a brilliant opportunity to prove its essential worthlessness. It has shown itself to be little more than a circus of entertainers and cheerleaders for whom every season is the silly season. Tragically, the media has failed in its sacred duty to keep a vigilant, skeptical, critical eye on the centers of power. Who is the American Robert Fisk, Gideon Levy, or Amira Hass? Whoever they are (and Sy Hersh proves they exist), why are their writings not filling the op-ed pages of the great American newspapers? How can the nation that produces the bulk of Nobel prize winners be stuck with such a sullen bunch of journalistic mediocrities? The sycophantic enablers of the Fourth Estate have blood on their hands. »

  91. BrooklynJon says:

    amre,

    What are you talking about? Was it this:

    “I don’t like to engage in name-calling.”

    that convinced you that I was racist and arrogant?

    Let me remind you that you’re the one who denied my nation’s existance, decided that my religion was simple and archaic, and expressed a belief that if people wanted to kill us, rape our women, take our property and throw us out, then that’s okay. And I’m the racist and arrogant one?

    And what’s with this “chosen race” crap? Judaism isn’t a race. It’s a nation.

    Yes, we’re chosen, but chosen for what? Have you ever wondered what? You could be chosen for a lot of things. Open your mind, and maybe I’ll tell you.

    “Worthless, dirty Arab”
    This is what you put into my mouth, after I say (and I repeat) “I don’t like to engage in name-calling.”

    It’s pretty obvious that you are not interested in coexistance. As for what exactly an “alliance” would be on a weblog, I’m a bit perplexed.

    You want me to tell Egypeter that his “mother had a relation with a muslim man”? Or that he should “go to the gym on regular basis to make up for …[his]… inferirity complex which …[he]…quiet amazingly have turned into a superirty facade”?

    Uh, okay….

    Hey Egypeter, you should get a job in amre’s friend’s Hungarian circus. Yeah, as a clown. I’m not sure why, but my ally said so, so I agree.

    amre, are you satisfied now?

  92. BrooklynJon says:

    nomad,

    The American Media has been busily using Al Qaeda as their sources, using native stringers who have a tremendous bias, inventing sources, photoshopping images, and presenting their antiwar, anti-Bush bias as fact. The New York Times, for instance, complains that the government tries to suppress information about developing terrorist plots that could adversely impact our security, but also complains when the government releases information demonstrating Saddam Hussein’s continued committment to obtaining WMD.

    The American media has been busy subverting the government for quite some time. Reading mainstream media, you would be surprised to know that there is anybody who – with an IQ above 60 and their wits about them – actually disagrees with their opinions.

  93. Bjon

    you would be surprised to know that there is anybody who – with an IQ above 60 and their wits about them – actually disagrees with their opinions.

    if your talking about yourself, your too modest
    anyway I am glad you mention your desagreement

    when your quoting “the New York Times, did you had a chance to read the last Roger Cohen paper from 1/31/2007 ?

  94. BrooklynJon says:

    nomad,

    Thank you. I exaggerated. And I wasn’t speaking about you, per se. I was talking about the impression one could get from reading nothing but the media.

    In fact, there was an interesting scholarly attempt to measure the bias of the American media against the American norm (which was defined as the House of Representatives). Of the top twenty newspapers, one was pretty much on center, two were right of center, and 17 were left of center.

    I don’t think I’ve read the Roger Cohen paper. Where is it? Should I?

  95. was it a during Bush majority or after the new majority came in power ?

    R.C made an article “United States as the anti-France”, nevermind

  96. BrooklynJon says:

    Good question. It was during the last Congress, which was controlled by the Republicans. If they repeated it, the “average” political opinion would have moved somewhat to the left, although frankly not so much. Most of the newly elected Democrats are politically pretty moderate. The leaders of the Democratic party are rather to the left of their base.

    I’d be curious what the results would be if the study were repeated now.

  97. Know why the Iranians will win?

    Cuz everyone else will be arguing about dead languages ;->