Rantings of a Sandmonkey
Whomever says otherwise is clearly lying. I mean, in the midst of all the outrage over the Aqsa Mosque digging, they go and name a street after Meir Kahane? WTF?
Hey SM, great to have you back!
That street was named 15 years ago. Why is this news now?
We Israelis may be known for a lot of things, but effective PR isn’t one of them. What’s even sicker than this idea is the overwhelming support for the street name reflected in the ynet article’s Talkback section. Seriously sick people.
I don’t see what the big deal is. Claiming you want to ethnically cleanse Israel and there’s a fuss over a single dead end ally? Actually ethnically cleanse Algeria or Egypt or use gas in Yemen or invade Iran or blow up the WTC and you would be really unlucky just to get a street named after you.
The Middle East is a monument to mass murderers and dictators. Kahane was a shit, but not enough of one to even compete in his neighbour’s league. Look on their works and weep.
Actually Israel has over 12 PR firms that Work Solely for the Israeli Govt in the United States. What they are doing now with these little Jabs is trying to get a rise out of the Arab/Muslim world…
Modern Pharaoh, name them.
And why, please explain to me, would Israel want to get a rise out of the Arab/Muslim world? Please, explain this in a rational manner.
The bridge leading from the Mugrabi gate is damaged. Extremely damaged. It is so damaged, in fact, that it will most likely collapse completely soon. The Waqf was informed of this, government representatives tried to meet with them to no avail, because they simply refuse to meet anyone of the ‘conquering regime’. Not even Lupoliaski, Jerusalem’s mayor. So Lupo stopped the bridge rebuilding for now, though the poor bastards trying to somehow keep the old bridge standing for the interim will stay there. Possibly they will get some rocks thrown at them for their trouble. He’ll open the construction plans, let anyone who wants to see them to do so, talk things over with other community leaders in East Jerusalem.
For the sake of all of us, I hope that bridge is rebuilt ASAP. It just standing there as it is puts people at risk.
And yes, that tiny street was named fifteen years ago. Why someone complains of this just now is beyond me. Yes, Kahane was a nasty piece of work, and streets shouldn’t be named after people like Kahane just because he was ‘Jewish and died for his beliefs’. His beliefs sucked. This is not the kind of person who we should set memorials for. But why after 15 years?
Modern Pharaoh Says:”What they are doing now with these little Jabs is trying to get a rise out of the Arab/Muslim world…”
And of course I could not ever find a street named after someone who actually murdered Jews in the Arab world could I? All Kahane did was call for the Arabs to be expelled from Israel. How many streets in Cairo alone are named after people who actually expelled minorities? Let’s start with Nasir who drove all the Jews in Egypt out. Was that to get a rise out of Israel as well? Don’t judge Jews by your standards.
It’s a local decision in small town with 15,000 people
the Kahane party has been made illegal in Israel and numerous members of it have been arrested
the diggings, by the way, aren’t actually ‘aqsa mosque’ diggings. Not anywhere within the aqsa mosque (or temple mount) compound. This entirely ridiculous claim that they are is manufactured by palestinian fanatics in the hopes of getting the muslim world agitated. You probably are aware of it and simply say ‘aqsa mosque diggings’ because these lying fanatics have succeeded to make this be the name the bridge re-construction goes under.
@heigou: Nasser was an idiot for Driving the jews out of Egypt. and i wrote about that in my Blog.
I have nothing against Jews…and actually if i ever had ANYTHING against Jews i’d be contradicting my Religion! I’m Muslim and in Islam, WE HAVE TO respect the People of the book! (thats why the Extremist asswipes terrorists should not even call themselves muslims)
I do have something against a political move called ZIONISM though.
Jolly nice of you to write about expelled Jews on your blog. It was thanks to Zionism that they had somewhere to go.
@Roman Kalik: watch Peace Propaganda and middleast and you can see all about Israels PR, and the names of the firms they have hired.
@Shlemaz: it was actually NO THANKS to zionism that they started having problems in their native countries. Its known many jews, specially the ones in Arab countries felt the inception of Israel and war with the Arabs was going to effect them badly.
ps: The Jews of Palestine lived in Palestine for hundreds of years with the Palestinian Christians and muslims with no problems! Zionism created all the problems. In Egypt sadly once the LAVON AFFAIR took place, many distrusted the Jews! Very sad and stupid but thats what happened.
PLease do not think i’m anti Jew! I dare not be and have deep respect for Judaism.
If you have a deep respect for the “people of the book” I guess you also have some respect for the book itself, being the bible, and in the bible, god destines the land of Israel for the jews…..(Zionism?)
How can you play with this in any other way?
Modern Pharaoh Says:”Nasser was an idiot for Driving the jews out of Egypt. and i wrote about that in my Blog.”
How nice for you. But notice the difference: Kahane was never in power, he never was Prime Minister, he was a fringe figure in Israeli life who has one tiny dirty dead end ally named after him. Nasir was in power and a hero to millions of Arabs, he held power for decades, he was and is central to Arab and Egyptian political life. He has thousands of things named after him.
And Nasir did what Kahane only talked about.
Yet you condemn the Israelis? Uh huh. No double standards there.
Modern Pharaoh Says:”I have nothing against Jews…and actually if i ever had ANYTHING against Jews i’d be contradicting my Religion! I’m Muslim and in Islam, WE HAVE TO respect the People of the book! (thats why the Extremist asswipes terrorists should not even call themselves muslims)”
Funny that. How your religion simultaneously vilifies Jews and Christians while the Islamists claim it commands them to respect the People of the Book. And that term – how about you all call us all by our own names for ourselves? We don’t call you all Mohammedans any more do we? And for the record, in the immortal words of some soon-to-be-dead Syrian woman, we aren’t the People of the Book, we are the People of many Books. Everything worth reading in fact.
Modern Pharaoh Says:”I do have something against a political move called ZIONISM though.”
I’ll look that up.
And again, I must note that you completely ignore the rise of Pan-Arabism as a factor. At least judge everyone equally.
@Heigou: You make no sense…and your twisting my words. so as we say in egypt “Go drink from the Sea”
@Roman: Sorry Roman i forgot to Address that, Yes Pan-Arabism is an absolute fact i agree.
Modern Pharaoh, thank you.
As I read it, the original idea behind the planned expulsion/destruction of the Jewish settlement in Palestine was supposed to be the unifying glue between the newly formed/reformed Arab nations. The only exception to this was Jordan, which wanted a Western proxy to serve as a gateway between its planned empire and Europe/US.
Later, we added the Palestinian refugees into the mess. The pan-Arabists snapped that one up. It gave them a great excuse for a Great Unifying Enemy.
@Roman: I agree with you once again! The Arabs definitly had a hand in creating the Refugee problem. But Abviousley the “TAKING” of Palestinians land and homes from the Palestinians was the Begining factor of all this.
Pan-Arabism is a pipe dream by the way, It only weakened peoples National pride, and i think actually gave way to the idea of Pan-Islamism!
I disagree on the ‘who started it’ bit, chiefly because the pan-Arabists made their intentions of war quite clear before the state of Israel declared independence, and that before that the Jewish settlement in Palestine had accepted the UN partition plan in full.
The dislocation of the Palestinian Arab population came later, during and after War for Independence. Many had left before and during the start of the war, to flee the warzone. The Arab states made sure to say publicly that Israel declaring independence would mean a war, and that if this war would start then it would be best if the Palestinian Arab population (I.E Our Arab Brethren) stepped aside and only came back later to clean up the blood. The Jewish settlement took that as a stab in the back. Then, still slightly before and during the war, the remaining Palestinian Arab population mostly consisted of pan-Arabist nationalists who turned cities into fortresses and laid siege to the towns the Jews built. This was taken as another stab in the back.
Until then, the majority of the Jewish settlement supported coexistence. Zionism did not mean dislocating anyone other than Jews, from their positions as 3rd rate citizens across most of Europe. Theodore Herzl’s vision of a secular democratic nation with a Jewish majority also demanded equality and no mistreatment to anyone else living in the Jewish state, and nor was there a demand for a particular set of borders. After all, the ancient borders were blurry at best, and which particular borders from which particular period would they use? No, the Zionist vision simply meant a state for Jews. Some were desperate enough to even seriously contemplate founding this state in Uganda, when the offer was given. And they were willing to compromise on the land issue, as they had showed when they accepted the UN partition.
But the pan-Arabists weren’t. For them, the destruction of the Jewish settlement was going to be a symbolic unity pact, a pact in the blood of the last foreign invaders, as they saw the Zionists. And many Palestinian Arabs also bought the pan-Arabist pipe-dream. Some didn’t, mainly Arab Christians. The Bedoins didn’t even consider the matter seriously, what were the squabbles of land-diggers to them? And the Druze fiercely objected to the whole notion of pan-Arabism, as they saw their own identity and rights as a minority as non-existent in the pan-Arabist dream.
So yes, the Zionists forced Palestinian Arabs out of their homes, just as the Palestinian Arabs tried to force the Zionists out of theirs. Some Palestinian Arabs didn’t throw their lot in with the pan-Arabists, and those were the ones who became part of Israel. Also, you had the Bedoins weren’t Arabs in the sense that they weren’t Arab nationalists, and approximately half of the tribes allied themselves with the Jewish settlement. The others were simply indifferent. The Druze were forced to join one of the invading Arab armies (can’t remember which one at the moment), but they were never pan-Arabists and joined the state of Israel fully in the end.
And the newly-founded state of Israel didn’t let those who left before and during the war to return, nor did it let those who were forced out during the war to return. There was no more trust. From the Zionists’ point of view, most of the Palestinians had either left them to die or tried to help kill them. This was something they could not forgive, nor could they risk this happening again in the future. Coexistence died.
We could go further back, try to investigate what led to the antagonism between the Jewish settlement and the Palestinian Arabs. Most likely we would eventually reach some farmers feuding over prices, competition etc. Or we could look to the future, and try to see what we could do to make things better. The Palestinians have an independent national identity now, shaky as it is. This they acquired in the refugee camps, where the pan-Arabists treated them like dirt and did their best to turn them into a political weapon to serve their interests. And when the Arab occupiers were replaced by Israeli occupiers, both Egpyt and Jordan washed their hands of them, not wanting anything to do with them any more and throwing the responsibility entirely into the Israeli court.
The Palestinians must choose. They can continue playing the role that was set for them, constantly fighting a never-ending war, or they can start living. We are willing to leave the remaining occupied territories as we left Gaza, we are willing to decide on a real border, willing to dismantle the settlements and to forcibly relocate part of our own population, if it means the security and well-being of all. But we are not willing to risk this while there is constant bloodshed and deliberate attacks on our civilians, while the Palestinian leadership is unwilling to accept our right to a state when we have accepted theirs. Nor are we willing to accept the refugees of 1948 into our borders. We will not become a minority in our country, nor will we shift this large a portion of our population to make room for them. Let there be two states, for two people.
And most importantly, there is simply no trust. We will not accept into our midst those who would stab us yet again. This is as far as we are willing to compromise on our dream.
Pan-Arabism was not just a pipe-dream, as I see it. I see it as an extremely unhealthy start to a culture based solely on pride, in some kind of desperate attempt to regain it after the colonialist countries left. They used Islam for political gain, effectively destroying the religious institution so that when pan-Arabism died, the politicized and radical religious leaders filled in the still-existing void in the Arab minds with pan-Islamism.
I think it’s utterly and appropriately symbolic that this street is a dead end alley.
@kishnevi: Your so rite! The moral of the story is, Palestinians and Israelis both should somehow live in peace and happiness and end all this bullshit!
Heh, indeed, Kishnevi. It is indeed incredibly… suitable, when one thinks of it.
@Modern Pharaoh: it was actually NO THANKS to zionism that they started having problems in their native countries. Its known many jews, specially the ones in Arab countries felt the inception of Israel and war with the Arabs was going to effect them badly.
Oh yeah? they started having problems centuries before the word “zionism” was invented… One “little” example: Jewish children were starved to death and tortured as a result of Damascus blood libel of 1840.
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