The Re-Hymenization Fatwa

The Egyptian Mufti- yes, that guy – just issued a fantastic new Fatwa: He said that it is Halal (permissible in Islam) for any female who lost her hymen for any reason to do the operation to have their hymen re-instated. His reasoning? Well, that the Islamic religion calls for Shielding yourself from Scandal (El Satr), and if a re-hymenization operation will do that, then Islam allows it. However, and I am quoting him here, "If a girl does this, she should not tell her Fiance of her operation, and the same applies to the married woman committing adultery, for she shouldn't tell her husbend that commited such an act." He states that this is not wrong or deceptive in anyway, since it aims at "maintaining family unity"- yes he used that excuse again- and "helping fornicating girls to have a second chance in life and be able to get married". That, apparently, makes it OK!

I love this stupid stupid man. He makes me laugh! 

Comments

  1. Why all of the obsession with women’s private parts. I can’t imagine how creeped out the women must feel to be relegated to meat status from the moment of birth.

  2. this happens not only in your country, it’s a great deal over here too, and some of hospital staff think of refusing to make the intervention, according to our laws upon the right of a female to own her body

  3. Melissa in NorCal says:

    Fantastic. This guy is in the pockets of the plastic surgeons association of Egypt. Yet, if this saves just one girl’s life, it is worth it. I always laughed when I was younger because all the men were sex machines, but all the girls were virgins. Who the hell were the guys having sex with? There are no new sins, anywhere. This has been going on since the beginning of time. Remember the time when you had to bring a vial of blood into the marriage bed the first night and spill it on the sheets to show to the family. No new sins people.

  4. I don’t know. I think “get it fixed and don’t tell anybody” is really funny advice coming from any kind of cleric. I can’t see the Pope getting behind a revirginization scheme.

  5. And does the Muftti think he can change the law and make Re-hymenization legal in Egypt? (despite the fact that its very common)

  6. I second Melissa. If only one life is saved it worth it. Stupid or not.

    I wish there were no need for that at all.

    Without attempting to insult anyone just qurious.
    How does this Fatwa affect 72 havenly virgins and, as a result, myrtirdom?

  7. “I love this stupid stupid man. He makes me laugh!”

    Yeah, but 60 million Egyptians take him DEAD serious.

  8. How unethical, deceiving, irreligious, ughhhhhhhhhh!!!!!

  9. Hollowpoint says:

    Murphy’s Law, Section II, Article I:

    “If it’s stupid but it works, it ain’t stupid”.

    It’s a shame that many of these women are in a situation where they must be seen as a virgin in order to get married, but if that’s the reality, at least the nutball Mufti isn’t closing that door for them- not that it makes him less of a barbaric nutcase.

    Of course it would be better had he tried to get rid of such archaic attitudes about women, but we know that ain’t happening.

  10. And another thing, 90+ % of women in Egypt get ‘circumcised’ to some degree? Why? If God wanted you that way, you would have been born that way.
    A better solution to female ‘honor’ would be to have the men sew their ‘willies’ to their own bodies. That way it can’t get near a lady part to do any damage.

  11. so utterly ridiculous! doesn’t fix the problem but if it makes life easier for unmarried muslim women (or gives them a break from anal sex ha, which i hear is a very popular alternative over there) im all for it

  12. When I first learned of FGM I had nighmares. I simply can’t believe that a society that wants to pretend it is living in the 21st century still wants to discuss this barbaric use of females.
    Dear God!!!

  13. Things could be worse. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0780622/

  14. #3 Melissa:

    Maybe the men were having sex with each other? I mean, it wouldn’t be the first time men gayed it up, right?

  15. Melissa in NorCal says:

    Red Tulips:

    Maybe the men were having sex with each other? I mean, it wouldn’t be the first time men gayed it up, right?

    That is the joke, but then, would they brag about it so much? Besides, in some countries(Mexico), you are only gay if you are on the receiving end of a penis. Does this apply to the ME as well?

  16. Reading comments on the blog of the American jihadi, I came across this one that describes the situation very well….
    Boys of the Taliban and sexual confusion/frustration of the arab.
    http://danielaljughaifi.wordpress.com/2006/08/16/wow-its-all-starting-to-make-sense/#comment-112

  17. “And another thing, 90+ % of women in Egypt get ‘circumcised’ to some degree?”

    Where do you get your numbers from?

  18. Twosret Says:”How unethical, deceiving, irreligious, ughhhhhhhhhh!!!!!”

    But what an interesting adaptation of modernity by an old fashioned religion. Rather than rejecting it, they are accepting it and giving it an Islamic veneer. Clever. If only they could do so with more of modern life.

    (Isn’t interesting that the traditional allowance for men to lie to their wives for “family harmony” has been extended in this way? I expect the only outcome will be an increase in wife beating as *nothing* will now convince Muslim boys they were first.)

    Melissa in NorCal Says:”That is the joke, but then, would they brag about it so much? Besides, in some countries(Mexico), you are only gay if you are on the receiving end of a penis. Does this apply to the ME as well?”

    800 years under Muslim rule, Spain was. Where do you think they got the idea from?

    Twosret Says:”Where do you get your numbers from?”

    UNICEF claims the figure is 97 percent. See this link:

    http://www.unicef.org/publications/files/FGM-C_final_10_October.pdf

    But you did not know that. Interesting. Not got laid lately huh?

  19. Heigou,

    Omak :)

  20. oooo “Omak”. That means “yo Mama” Twosret you could have stepped that up a little with the proper prefix! ;)

  21. Ron Larson says:

    I’ve never understood the religious concept that an act or ritual can undo one’s sins. In this case, a simple surgery will make right what was declared wrong in the eyes of the Islamic faith (premarital sex and infidelity).

    I can’t speak for other faiths. But the Christian faith is weird in this way too. As as kid I used to get into arguments with priest about this subject. They claimed that as long as you accept God and Christ, all would be forgiven and that you would be accepted into heaven. I would them if that means that I could kill, rape, steal, and lie. And then spout some magic words and everything would be OK in God’s eyes. They would always answer “yes”. But, the catch was that I had to do it before I died. If I didn’t say the magic words in time, I would be screwed.

    I’m not Catholic, but my GF is. In the Catholic church, they take it a step further with confessional booths and atonements being handed out by the priests like candy. If you commit a sin, you can stop by the church and have it removed. Sort of like a drop-off dry-cleaners.

    Wow. What a concept! A cheap and easy “get out of hell” card. No wonder I became agnostic.

  22. Hey, I think the guy has something. I’ve been a virgin all morning so far!!

  23. The guy has a point. At least his stupid ideas points out what lengths a woman would have to go to in order to not be killed; hey, it’s better than the alternative – stoning, set on fire or whatever nasty thing an idiot male can think up.

  24. It’s not just a physical thing- it’s not just about sewing together a stupid blob of membrane that’s supposed to be the mark of virtue- it has a psychological impact too. The whole procedure is degrading and humiliating. Trust me, I know.

  25. That’s what I love about Islamic morality, it’s consistantly backwards on every single topic.

    It doesn’t matter how wrong it is, Islam will approve: blowing up poor people on the bus who can’t afford cars? Just wonderful! Lying? Fine! Beating your wife – approved!

    The worst part about it is that there’s no basis for anything good in it. Making peace? Nope. Tolerance? Never! Compassion? Ha!!

  26. But this one is about lying, and lying is the only freedom you have in Islam.

    Enjoy your freedom!

  27. BrooklynJon says:

    Ron Larson,

    That always struck me as odd as well. One of the things that appeals to me about my religion is that we don’t have that. You actually have to be nice and fair to people. And if you’re not, G-d won’t go out of his way to smooth things over for you.

    bj

  28. Lies, Deception

    Imam Abu Hammid Ghazali says: “Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible.” (Ahmad ibn Naqib al-Misri, The Reliance of the Traveller, translated by Nuh Ha Mim Keller, amana publications, 1997, section r8.2, page 745)

    Circumcision

    The Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law ‘Umdat al-Salik
    by Ahmad ibn Naqib al-Misri (d. 769/1368) in Arabic with
    Facing English Text, Commentary, and Appendices
    Edited and Translated by Nuh Ha Mim Keller

    In this book, in the section titled “THE BODY”, we find on page 59 the following entry:

    Nuh Hah Mim Keller’s Translation Arabic Original

    e4.3 Circumcision is obligatory (O: for both men and women. For men it consists of removing the prepuce from the penis, and for women, removing the prepuce (Ar. Bazr) of the clitoris (n: not the clitoris itself, as some mistakenly assert). (A: Hanbalis hold that circumcision of women is not obligatory but sunna, while Hanafis consider it a mere courtesy to the husband.)”

    The above used abbreviations mean:

    A: … comment by Sheikh ‘Abd al-Wakil Durubi
    Ar. Arabic
    n: … remark by the translator
    O: … excerpt from the commentary of Sheikh ‘Umar Barakat

    However what the Arabic actually says is:

    Circumcision is obligatory (for every male and female)
    by cutting off the piece of skin on the glans of the penis of the male,
    but circumcision of the female is by cutting out the clitoris
    (this is called HufaaD). {bold emphasis ours}

    The Arabic word bazr does not mean “prepuce of the clitoris”, it means the clitoris itself (cf. the entry in the Arabic-English Dictionary). The deceptive translation by Nuh Hah Mim Keller, made for Western consumption, obscures the Shafi’i law, given by ‘Umdat al-Salik, that circumcision of girls by excision of the clitoris is mandatory. This particular form of female circumcision is widely practiced in Egypt, where the Shafi’i school of Sunni law is followed.

  29. In France, its not only muslin girls who get their hymen re-installed, but jewish girls too if they want to get in a “good marriage”, and I expect catholic girls wont, cause they anyway have the possibility to get a life or make a good marriage without their hymen replaced, most of the only catholic males left would not care, for they marry a person and not a family or a business and properties

  30. So he’s saying that lying is okay as long as it prevents you from being the subject of a scandal.

    Well. This certainly explains a lot about middle eastern politics.

  31. Ron Larson Says:”I’ve never understood the religious concept that an act or ritual can undo one’s sins. In this case, a simple surgery will make right what was declared wrong in the eyes of the Islamic faith (premarital sex and infidelity).”

    I don’t think that is what the Mufti is claiming. Re-sewing the girl does not mean she will escape punishment in the next life, just that the consequences in this life will be less severe. Pre-marital sex is still wrong, as far as I can see, it is just that girls ought to be able to move on if they can. Egyptians are often “born again” Muslims, and especially Muslimas, so assume that a girl was not pious and slept with her boyfriend, then became pious, repented openly and honestly, asked God for forgiveness and promised never to do it again – what ought to happen next? Should she never be able to form a proper marriage? Ought she be the victim of an honor killing? All he is saying is that a little dishonesty is worth it for a happy marriage. Which sucks, but for a whole range of different retardedness.

    Ron Larson Says:”I can’t speak for other faiths. But the Christian faith is weird in this way too. As as kid I used to get into arguments with priest about this subject. They claimed that as long as you accept God and Christ, all would be forgiven and that you would be accepted into heaven. I would them if that means that I could kill, rape, steal, and lie. And then spout some magic words and everything would be OK in God’s eyes. They would always answer “yes”. But, the catch was that I had to do it before I died. If I didn’t say the magic words in time, I would be screwed.”

    Except God is not fooled by some words. Accepting God and Christ means a genuine change of heart. Of course you have to do it before you die. I mean there is no point repenting when you know God exists. You have to repent when it is still a free choice. I don’t see what is odd about this – surely you would agree that people can repent, make amends and be forgiven? OR do you think that every act you do carries with you for eternity?

    Ron Larson Says:”In the Catholic church, they take it a step further with confessional booths and atonements being handed out by the priests like candy. If you commit a sin, you can stop by the church and have it removed. Sort of like a drop-off dry-cleaners.”

    Well priests should not be handing them out like candy – although the modern Church probably tries to keep its membership by making it easier. Again, what is wrong with the idea that you can repent of your actions and make amends with God? The priest ought to impose a penance which ought to include some sort of redress for those who have wronged and punishment, but so what? Let’s compare this with the secularised but basically Christian procedure of the AA’s 12 Step program. You have to admit your wrongs and go and apologise to everyone and try to make amends. What is stupid about that?

    Ron Larson Says:”Wow. What a concept! A cheap and easy “get out of hell” card. No wonder I became agnostic.”

    Of course it should be neither cheap nor easy. Nor, if I understand Christian theology correctly, is it a get out of Hell card as even if you confess and repent, the choice is God’s and you do not know if He has forgiven you or not.

    Zvi Says:”So he’s saying that lying is okay as long as it prevents you from being the subject of a scandal. Well. This certainly explains a lot about middle eastern politics.”

    Indeed Muslims are specifically forbidden to “backbite” which is one of the main reasons they will not condemn people like Osama Bin Laden. It is better to lie in public than condemn a Muslim sinner for sinning.

    Of course it is probably not the only reason.

  32. John Cunningham says:

    Thank God I’m an antheist.

  33. John Cunningham Says:”Thank God I’m an antheist.”

    You believe God has six legs and lives in social colonies?

    Cool.

  34. I see this guy is a lunatic, this way he encourages women to lie for the sake of the family unity, and I thought lie was a sin. Somebody tell this man to Shut Up!!!!

  35. Sandmonkey the man is enlightend. Google or Wikipedia Chastity belts, there are lots of models for sale. Besides, yesterday a Malay Imam advertised ! the benefit of this little item, protecting women from rapists and other unwelcome attacks.

    Promoting invisible mending in Egypt, the Mufti seems a bit behind times. This has been fashionable since ages. Going prices in the 5oies from 3o Pound upwards.

    They forgot to mention this in the famous Yacoubian Bldg. film!!

    Lizzy

  36. John Cunningham says:

    #34, HeiGou, it’s a joke, notice I thanked God. Now, have a good day and may the force be with you.

  37. Lutoklawski says:

    Why doesn´t the guy make a statement that men should not kill reject their wifes if they are not virgins instead? That would make more sense, if he really are that worried about women.
    Or perhaps his main concern here is to prevent mens feelings from getting hurt?

  38. I wonder if UN should declare that all females must undergo defloration procedure at birth. I heard some cultures have it already.

    Should we make it a religious duty?

  39. Interesting, I recall listening to a radio program where a clinic in Switzerland which offered exactly this service (fixing hymens) was presented… I would say that was roughly five years ago.

  40. Lutoklawski Says:”Why doesn´t the guy make a statement that men should not kill reject their wifes if they are not virgins instead? That would make more sense, if he really are that worried about women.
    Or perhaps his main concern here is to prevent mens feelings from getting hurt?”

    Except it is not going to work. Arab society is so paranoid about virgins that this is going to drive them over the edge. At least in the past men could trust a medical exam or signs of blood after the wedding night. How can they do that now? Given that the default state seems to be paranoia and distrust of women, I’d bet from now on no Arab Muslim man will ever accept any level of proof of virginity which means most will just assume their wives have been sleeping around *regardless* of evidence. More wife beating I expect.

    Besides, there is no scriptural basis for saying men should not beat their wives as the Quran allows it.

    leo Says:”I wonder if UN should declare that all females must undergo defloration procedure at birth. I heard some cultures have it already. Should we make it a religious duty?”

    Childhood isn’t traumatic enough? Besides, an interest in virginity is hardly a bad thing. Insanity is.

    UK Says:”Interesting, I recall listening to a radio program where a clinic in Switzerland which offered exactly this service (fixing hymens) was presented… I would say that was roughly five years ago.”

    Why am I not surprised? Muslim Creationists have to steal from Christians, and anti-Christian preachers have to steal from atheists. You’d have thought that the Muslim world could have produced one single contribution to modern science on their own. At least one that did not involve blowing airplanes up.

  41. If a girl rides horses, is seriously atheletic (ie, gymnastics), uses tampons, etc. — she’ll probably lose her hymen while a virgin. I wish all this hymen repair money could be spent feeding starving children. This is the most ridiculous puddle of vomit I’ve seen in a while. I weep about the bombs…but I weep a bit less if a nutjob like this guy gets eliminated from the gene pool. Grow up…and set your women and girls free. For God’s sake, get a cultural grip on what’s important. Most married men will tell you it’s what’s in a woman’s HEAD that will secure a family, not her pants. And if you start letting hack plastic surgeons cut and sew your gals down there, you’re in for more problems than a little pre-marriage sexual exploration. Can anyone say Staph infection, infertility, gangrene? Lord have mercy on your souls. I would think a twat doctor would be worse touching the “virgin” than anything!

  42. I knew it! Those 72 paradise “virgins” have all been re-hymenized! Just don’t tell anyone.

  43. Dave Says:”I knew it! Those 72 paradise “virgins” have all been re-hymenized! Just don’t tell anyone.”

    According to one Shafi’i Egyptian Imam I listened to once, they are re-hymenised every night – and they forget too! So you can have your cake, so to speak, and eat it too (although I am not sure that is Halal).

  44. HeiGou – If I’m correct I remember SM writing a post on that exact same subject not too long ago.

  45. chellebelle says:

    OK why would a married woman need to rehymanized? Its not like the hymen grows back after one loses it. And if she still has it, well we know why she is committing adultrey.

    I am curious. The Koran has no problem with lying because thisis what this dude is advocating. And are we supposed to be with what other people think (scandal) or what God thinks? He still knows what the girl did, even is she gets rehymenated.

    Hilarious.

  46. @ 22 Ron Larson

    No wonder that you are atheist if you have this kind of knowledge about your granparent religion.
    In catholicism the priest will “remove” your sin only if you are contrite, really contrite and promise not to do it any more. Otherwise you will not get absolution.
    It’s not an automatic factory – go to priest say “I want to be clear of sin(s)” and your sins are suddenly removed.

  47. ella @ 47.

    Is it really that dificult to be ‘really really really contrite’?

    If all you need is just to have your priest remove your sins.

    If you are more serious about your sins perhaps you should talk to your god instead of your priest.

  48. Is it really that dificult to be ‘really really really contrite’?
    You may be contrite for 5 minutes, but that’s not that.
    As for talking to your god……every religious person can do that, no problem. But every religion has also its own regulations. If you are a catholic or protestant you may take advice from your priest or pastor. If you are jewish you may ask your rabbi if what you are doing is correct and you follow multitude of proscription (if your are an ortodox). If you are muslim you listen to your marja (if you are shia) or to your imam (if you are sunni). If you are agnostic then you talk to your god, and follow your own rules.
    Its up to everyone.
    So don’t advise me to talk to “my” god/g_d/allah about my sins and/or problems and perhaps getting an answers in a clear, loud, articulated voice. That last, I think, only prophets or people in hospitals can get.. ;-)

    BTW for your info I am an agnostic.

  49. Lutoklawski says:

    Lutoklawski Says:”Why doesn´t the guy make a statement that men should not kill reject their wifes if they are not virgins instead? That would make more sense, if he really are that worried about women.
    Or perhaps his main concern here is to prevent mens feelings from getting hurt?”

    Heigou says:
    “Except it is not going to work. Arab society is so paranoid about virgins that this is going to drive them over the edge. At least in the past men could trust a medical exam or signs of blood after the wedding night. How can they do that now? Given that the default state seems to be paranoia and distrust of women, I’d bet from now on no Arab Muslim man will ever accept any level of proof of virginity which means most will just assume their wives have been sleeping around *regardless* of evidence. More wife beating I expect.”

    Still, if this guy is really concerned about Egyptian women, he should try aiming at the root of the problem as well. If he´s got some kind of influence on Egyptian men, he should use it to tell them they have no right to beat and mistreat fellow human beings like that.

    The whole virginity cult is just so wacko anyway…I mean if you wanna marry someone (spend the rest of the life with her) what the hell does it matter if she´s done it before? Aren´t there other things to be concerned with? Jeesus Christ, there´s got to be a helluva lot insecurity going on in the Arab male-camp. A lot!

    That much for cultural relativism;)

  50. @HeiGou

    Unfortunately I do not recall the whole context of the program but I am pretty sure it was a decision of the clinic to offer such services because there was a demand (it is possible I heard it on Radio Multikulti whcih gets broadcasted in several languages in Germany).

    So maybe that “cleric” got to know of these surgeries because they are moer common that one might think.

    Speculative, though.

    About what that cleric should say or do:
    Have you ever seen or heard of a “holy man” who is doing anything for the people instead of using rhetorics to maintain and calcify a certain status quo?

    The saints of old do not count here ;)

  51. “…because they are more common THAN…”

  52. chellebelle Says:”OK why would a married woman need to rehymanized? Its not like the hymen grows back after one loses it. And if she still has it, well we know why she is committing adultrey.”

    There is a whole industry out there “re-vriginising” wives. I think they do a vagina-tightening (yeah, my mind boggles too) and perhaps a hymen reconstruction as well. Rich people apparently pay for this crap, but just why escapes me. To blatantly rip off someone else’s IP:

    “Like a ‘revirgin’, touched for the very first time
    AFP
    Wednesday, January 11, 2006 02:49 IST

    WASHINGTON: Forget Botox, liposuction or breast enlargement. The newest trend in plastic surgery for US women is vaginal reconstruction, including hymenoplasty, which offers patients new virginity.

    The procedure, also known as ‘revirgination’, is being hawked in magazines, the Internet or on radio stations as a way for women to improve their sex life or enjoy a second honeymoon.

    Jeanette Yarborough, a medical assistant from San Antonio, Texas, said she decided to undergo hymenoplasty, which involves reattaching the hymen, as a special gift for her husband on their 16th wedding anniversary.

    “You know I wasn’t a virgin when we got married and I thought what better gift to give my husband than revirgination,” the 40-year-old mother of four said.

    “It was a real sentimental gift, it was something I could recreate for him and he was thrilled. He was like ‘yeah, it was worth every penny’,” she said.

    Though long popular among women in the Middle East and Latin America, where being chaste is important on one’s wedding night, hymenoplasty is experiencing newfound popularity among US women.

    One clinic boasts on its internet site that its practitioners “can repair the hymen as if nothing occurred”.

    Many who undergo the procedure, which costs between 1,800 and 5,000 dollars, also ask that their vaginas be tightened, doctors say.

    Though there are no clear statistics, the American Society of Plastic Surgeons says vaginal surgery is one of the fastest growing trends in plastic surgery.

    Esmeralda Vanegas, owner of the Ridgewood Health and Beauty Center in New York, said business was booming at her clinic with about five hymenoplasties performed every month.

    “Hymenoplasty if for women who want to please their husband or their lover and they know that he wants to experience intercourse with a virgin,” the Cuban-born Vanegas said.

    But Dr Leroy Young, chairman of the emerging trends task force for the American Society of Plastic Surgeons, said he believes hymenoplasty was more of a fad among US women, especially on the West Coast, and was not likely to become hugely popular.

    “Based on what I know, I don’t see this becoming a real trend,” he said.

    “It’s more of a gag gift.” He noted that unlike other genital surgery, hymenoplasty carried little risk.

    Nonetheless, he stressed that women should seek out board certified surgeons if they decide to undergo the procedure and should beware of clinics offering vaginal surgery that are proliferating around the country ‘like McDonald’s’.

    Mary Blum, author of “Flesh Wounds: The Culture of Cosmetic Surgery”, expressed concern at the fact that such surgery was becoming part of mainstream America and was being marketed as a way to gain self-esteem or as part of the country’s obsession with self-improvement.

    “With hymenoplasty, one of the obvious problems is you are pretending nothing happened before,” she said.

    “It falls under the heading of rejuvenation, pretending your body has no history, so now it has no sexual history.”

    She added that such procedures were gaining in popularity in part because they were made affordable for the masses and were being touted as a consumer product rather than as invasive, and potentially dangerous, surgery.

    “It’s in the domain of will I take a trip, buy a new car or get a hymenoplasty,” she said.

    Blum said women like Yarborough could probably make their husbands just as happy with a much cheaper and less medically intrusive option.

    “She could have gotten him an inflatable doll,” she said.”

    chellebelle Says:”I am curious. The Koran has no problem with lying because thisis what this dude is advocating. And are we supposed to be with what other people think (scandal) or what God thinks? He still knows what the girl did, even is she gets rehymenated.”

    I am not sure if the Quran has no problem with it – but Muhammed did allow lying in three circumstances: for War, to maintain peace among the people, and to your spouse. One of the reasons for that might be that according to most accounts, he got busted sleeping with his maid when he promised that he wouldn’t. Luckily God did get that bit into the Quran because he soon received a Revelation demanding to know why he made illegal something that was legal for him (ie sleeping with said maid) and promising to punish his wives who kicked up a fuss and replace them with even better ones.

    However I don’t think the guy was saying God would be appeased. Just that social scandal was worth avoiding.

  53. Lutoklawski Says:”Still, if this guy is really concerned about Egyptian women, he should try aiming at the root of the problem as well. If he´s got some kind of influence on Egyptian men, he should use it to tell them they have no right to beat and mistreat fellow human beings like that.”

    Yeah but you can’t just change Islam like that. So presumably he is taking the soft option and trying to work around the rules. But I agree with you 100 percent. A pity he won’t.

    Lutoklawski Says:”The whole virginity cult is just so wacko anyway…I mean if you wanna marry someone (spend the rest of the life with her) what the hell does it matter if she´s done it before? Aren´t there other things to be concerned with? Jeesus Christ, there´s got to be a helluva lot insecurity going on in the Arab male-camp. A lot!”

    Is it wacko? I’d take a soft line on it myself. There is something there, I am sure most men would agree privately, but as with so many things Arabs take it to extreme lengths and go ape-sh!t for no good reason. It does, up to a point, matter what you both have been doing before, just not that much. Not enough to give yourself a bad night’s sleep over. At least I think so. I don’t think there are many guys who would be happy over, say, 2500 previous men even if these days they wouldn’t dare say so in public.

    Lutoklawski Says:”That much for cultural relativism;)”

    Off to the Death Camp of Tolerance for you I am afraid.

    UK Says:”Have you ever seen or heard of a “holy man” who is doing anything for the people instead of using rhetorics to maintain and calcify a certain status quo? The saints of old do not count here”

    Well there is a lot to be said for maintaining the satus quo. It usually beats the Hell out of the alternative. Protestors ought, I often semi-seriously think and not only when trying to piss off my in-laws, be run over by tanks – seriously, has anything good ever come out of protesting students?

    Besides, the Pope and other Christians did a lot to bring down the Soviet Union. Religious people have challenged the Chinese Communist Party repeatedly. I don’t think it is as simple as all that.

  54. Lutoklawski says:

    Heigou says: “Is it wacko? I’d take a soft line on it myself. There is something there, I am sure most men would agree privately, but as with so many things Arabs take it to extreme lengths and go ape-sh!t for no good reason. It does, up to a point, matter what you both have been doing before, just not that much. Not enough to give yourself a bad night’s sleep over. At least I think so. I don’t think there are many guys who would be happy over, say, 2500 previous men even if these days they wouldn’t dare say so in public.”

    Well, I can agree that agree that it matters up to a certain point. I can understand that others wouldn´t like to marry someone who has been sleeping around like crazy. But from my point of view (wich is in this case irrelevant), if I really LOVE someone it will not matter at all. But I understand and respect others who feel otherwise.
    What I think is wacko, however, is the virginity cult among arab men. Fucking around for years yourself and then go beating your not-virgin wife – that´s wacko! And an obvious sign of insecurity to an extreme degree.

    “Besides, the Pope and other Christians did a lot to bring down the Soviet Union. Religious people have challenged the Chinese Communist Party repeatedly. I don’t think it is as simple as all that.”

    Exactly.

  55. Lutoklawski Says:”What I think is wacko, however, is the virginity cult among arab men. Fucking around for years yourself and then go beating your not-virgin wife – that´s wacko! And an obvious sign of insecurity to an extreme degree.”

    Abso-friggin-lutely. What is there problem I wonder? Do they all think that, you know, the other boys are bigger? Maybe they know. Islamic law and Arab Muslim culture seems to come from a position that starts out by saying “Well if my wife had a choice, she’d be happier with someone else who could satisfy her”. Hence the need to lock her up and make her wear a garbage bag. It isn’t just Arabs either. Look at this:

    Asia-Pacific News
    Malaysian Islamic cleric proposes chastity belts to stop rape

    Feb 16, 2007, 1:59 GMT

    Kuala Lumpur – A leading Malaysian Muslim cleric has suggested that all women should be fitted with chastity belts as a deterrent to rape and incest, a news report said Friday.

    Abu Hassan Al-Hafiz, an influential cleric from the northeastern Terengganu state, said that women were most safe from sexual predators if they donned some form of barrier to their sexual organs.

    ‘We have even come across a number of unusual sex cases, where even senior citizens and children are not spared. The best way to avert sex perpetrators is to wear protection,’ Abu Hassan said in a sermon late Thursday, quoted by the Star daily.

    ‘My intention is not to offend women but to safeguard them from sex maniacs. Besides, husbands could also feel more secure, if you know what I mean.’

    Abu Hassan said that the practise of women wearing chastity belts in Malaysia could be traced to as recent as the mid-1960s.
    © 2007 dpa – Deutsche Presse-Agentur

    Notice the key sentence: “Besides, husbands could also feel more secure, if you know what I mean.”

    Well no I don’t know what he means, but as he has covered rape and incest, what other reason is there for a chastity belt – except perhaps the belief that their wives would cheat on them given half a chance?

    Where do you start with someone so f**ked up?

    (Guess I can’t work for Edwards now huh?)

  56. hymenosplasty doesn’t make you like a virgin if you stil have a big vagina due to pregnancies or different sorts of sex experiences. It is well known that men prefer tightened vaginas, therefore prefer young female alike virgins ;
    the 40 years old women whos had a few children is a kind of wise if she wants to keep her man at home with good sex, but she could have avoid the operation if she had knew how to henhance her vagina muscles with specific contractions of them done in a every day routine ;
    don’t ask me how, the doctor isn’t in :lol:

  57. … one could argue, though, that the catholic church has played such a great role in bringing communism down because they wanted that people live following their creed exclusively, not that party creed… meaning that the church demands “exclusive worship” as an institution.

    I know, there are much more factors so ease up in case one feels offended. ^^

    “Protestors ought, I often semi-seriously think and not only when trying to piss off my in-laws, be run over by tanks – seriously, has anything good ever come out of protesting students?”
    That line cracked me up, heh. ;) Nothing more convincing than the arguments that come out of the barrel of a gun…

    Anyway, humankind shouldn´t ever turn to people with strange robes and funny hats for any guidance… if it wants to progres, that is.

  58. Nomad,

    They are called kegel exercises. But that would involve “work” and some people prefer the quick fix.

  59. Karen, :P

    I have thought of yoga exercises though

  60. Can you send this guy to the U.S.? I think Paris Hilton and Britney Spears need to be re-Hymenized. Especially if it will shield us from scandal and well-placed shots of their bits and parts.

  61. Sam. Hows your dad doing?

  62. I wonder whether concept of re-hymenation endangers Immaculate Conception theory. Technically it is possible for women to conceive and than have an operation before even realizing that she is pregnant.

  63. BrooklynJon says:

    karen,

    Most Jewish women prefer kugel exercises to kegel exercises. I’m especially fond of the sweet noodle variety.

    TJB,

    A Titanium hymen for them, please. By any chance, are you Gloria M?

  64. You know, guys need to grow bigger schlongs and none of this would even matter. There ARE exercises and surgery for this. Funny, I bet things are shrivelling up quickly when cutting and pasting on your manhood is suggested, eh? I think a decent rule would be: if you’re going to require a woman to re-hymenize for you, be willing to sew your anus shut first to prove your manliness to even ask. If you ain’t willing to walk this mile, please don’t ask your woman to do it! SKIN is our largest organ!!! Work with it!!!! There are miles and hours of pleasure to be had if you learn how to work it!

  65. “be willing to sew your anus shut first to prove your manliness”

    I like the picture, kinda terrorist figure with explosion would follow :P

    “kugel exercises to kegel exercises. I’m especially fond of the sweet noodle variety.”

    Kugel süsserei, I did not know men could use them

  66. HeMadeMeDoIt says:

    As is common with most arabs we love to look up to the ostrich. Get fucking real! This guy’s basically promoting lying to build the holiest of relationships. to appease the chauvinistic double standard culture of arabs and middle eastern men. If these mullahs of egypt would shut up for a few minutes we’d manage to get ahead a little. One day its how to beat your wife lessons and the next its how to patch her up so u can beat her lesson pfffffft dawashtoons allah yekhreb beiotkom!

  67. Mmmmm, kugel. I like apple/raisin and cottage cheese. I also like pineapple/cottage cheese. Spinach and sour cream is nice as is a pareve onion one my Bubby used to make.

    As for kegels Jon, I do them when I remember….like now :)

  68. Jeez Louise SM! You ain’t worth shit these days. Getting tired of clicking over here.

  69. egyptiankangaroo says:

    Looks like a new cinema has just opened in Cairo. It is quite expensive to get in and you don’t really know what movie you will be watching until you are in your seat. There are days the movie is exciting and you get to see people throwing shoes at each other and there are days when it is quite dull. All the movies have not passed the censor and some of them are cheap remakes of the original ones. You can even bring in your own popcorn or nuts if you have a “Wasta”! If you don’t like the movie that is showing you can fall asleep. You even get paid to attend. Either way you are spending someone else’s money. The poor Egyptian tax payer remember them?
    come check out the pictures on my blog :
    http://egyptiankangaroo.blogspot.com/

  70. Karen, seems Kugel is a yiddish dish, but in my memory the translation, of the german word kugel, is kind of small ball …

  71. I wonder how this guy gets on with the other Egyptian Sheikh who claims that Egyptian woman should be circumcised because they have exceptionally large clitorises? Who do you think would win if they had a punch up?
    My money’s on the big clit dude- coz he’s scarier.

  72. The Usual Suspect Says:”I wonder how this guy gets on with the other Egyptian Sheikh who claims that Egyptian woman should be circumcised because they have exceptionally large clitorises? Who do you think would win if they had a punch up?
    My money’s on the big clit dude- coz he’s scarier.”

    Scarier to you perhaps. I don’t know about to the ovary-challenged among us.

    What I want to know is where do they get this stuff from? I mean, do they have crack squads of high school drop outs scanning the medical literature for any old bullsh!t that supports their views? Do they just make it up? In the West I’d say it was something a friend of a friend heard from his barber and told him in the pub one day. But that can’t be true in Egypt because there are no pubs for Imams and aren’t they shooting all the barbers? Just think of what sort of research he might be quoting – does anyone think that a bunch of scientists went out and measured all those clitorises (clitorii? What is the proper plural anyway?)?

  73. “clitorises (clitorii? What is the proper plural anyway?)”

    We will know when women will start haveng operations to add extra few.

    I do not know what it will do for women but for us it will be just more work.

  74. but for us it will be just more work.

    usually you suck at work :P

  75. leo Says:”We will know when women will start haveng operations to add extra few.”

    Yes but what about all those aspiring serial killers out there who don’t know what to call whatever they might want to collect? Come to think of it, I have never heard of a serial killer collecting that part. Feet, breasts, or hair yes.

    leo Says:”I do not know what it will do for women but for us it will be just more work.”

    That’s optimistic.

    nomad Says:”usually you suck at work”

    We suck? I thought you … oh wait, I see what you mean. That’s even more optimistic.

    You know the joke that goes “what’s the difference between a clitoris and a golf ball?” and ends “men will spend ten minutes looking for a golf ball”?

  76. nomad, “usually you suck at work”.

    May be you are right. However, I feel compelled to point out that it takes two to tango.

    And please, stop with hostility already. We are not here to discuss your personal problems.

  77. “We are not here to discuss your personal problems. ”

    what are you talking about ? seems the subject interests you unless your trying to make some “words” :P

    Heigous,

    since “optimistic work” is a game, one could not find a lazy man :P

  78. nomad , I could be wrong of cause but I think statement “usually you suck at work” can only come from personal experience.

    The other possibility, you do not mean what you say.

    Which is it?

  79. Heigou catch the meaning though

  80. Nomad,

    Yes, it is a Jewish dish. It may also be Russian/German/or Polish too. As for the small ball German translation….I never heard that before.

  81. don’t worry it was “rude” alike chinese balls

  82. Karen,

    “As for the small ball German translation….I never heard that before”
    It is because Yiddish had taken a lot from German.

    Many words, while preserved unchanged may have slight or much bigger difference in meaning.

    Hence ‘mensh’. In Yiddish it is term of respect. In German is not so much.
    While in general word itself means ‘man’.

  83. Hi Leo,

    Yes, I know that Yiddish evolved from ancient German, some Polish and Hebrew. My father, whose first language is Yiddish can understand some German. I only know some words here and there and my kids know even less :( My daughter learned to count to 20 and we love it. She says the numbers perfectly. It’s so cute.

  84. What’s with this obsession ppl seem to have with the goddam hymen? Just a few days ago that wacky Qardawi dude warns chicks against masturbating(except that he makes it seem okay for boys somehow) because they have a bigger chance of getting caught and being accused of fornication. Now this guy says it’s ok to make an absolute fool out of your future husband because that way you “keep the family together”? Where do these guys learn integrity? And aren’t they aware that a hymen doesn’t = virginity and lack thereof doesn’t = adultery. When you sleep around or cheat on your fiance, you and your future family have got bigger problems than your friggin’ hymen.

  85. One nation, under fatwa, with libertines and hymens for all.

  86. It’s about neurotic men being supported in their neuroses to become even more neurotic. It’s about the complete rejection of common sense, humanity and societal evolution.

    Crazy and they don’t even know it.

  87. mahmoud mansour says:

    I WANT TO ASK THAT STUPID WHO COMMENT THAT THE MAN IS STUPID IN HIS FATWA WHO IS HE OR SHE OR ANY ONE COMMENT HERE WHO IS HE TO SAY YES OR NO ABOUT SOMETHING A BIG RELIGION MAN PERMITE IT ,HE WILL BE ACCOUNTED OR JUDGED INFRONT OF GOD READ KORAN GOOD HE IS OLY ALAMR AND YOU MUST LISTEN TO HIM AND IF YOU EGYPTION HOW YOU CAN SAY THAT HE IS STUPID ON THE NET AND LET ALL THE WORLD OR NOT KNOW RELIGION WELL SAY LOOK EGYPTIONS AND MOSLIMS HOW THEY DEAL ? NO ONE STUPID EXCEPT WHO SEE THE RIGHT AND DO THE WRONG LIKE ME . WHY NOT AT FIRST THE JAILED MAN WAS JUST TO BE PRESONED ONCE HE IS OUT OF ALL COMUINTY ,WHY YOU DONT GIVE YOUR MOTHER ANOTHER CHANCE TO FIX HER CUNT SO SHE CAN MARRY AGAIN OR LIVE LIKE ANY ONE , IF YOUR SISTER HAPPENED FOR HER THAT YOU WILL NOT TRY ANY WAY TO RETURN HER HONOR ONCE AGAIN AND GIVE HER A CHANCE LIKE YOU GAVE YOUR MOTHER AND SISTERS MANY CHANCES BEFORE STOP ACTING ,AND ABOUT THE PROFESSOR IN HELWAN OR THE ONE WHO INSULT MR HOSNI MOBARAK WHO FROM US DONT LOSS HIS FEELINGS EVEN IF JUST ONCE IN THE LIFE , TRY TO UNDERSTAND BEFORE YOU SPEAK . AND LEARN TO FORGIVE GOD HIM SELF FORGIVE ALWAYS WHO ARE YOU SMALL MONKEY TO SAY THAT WITHOUT SEARCHING WHY HE SAID THAT , I AM SAYING MY OPINION AND I DONT CARE IF YOU DIDNT SEND YOUR MOTHER OR SIS TO ME AGAIN AS ALL THEIR LIFE ALWAYS COMING AND YOUR DAD TOOK THE MONEY SEE YOU ALL WHO SAY BAD THING ABOUT ALMUFTI . TO GIVE A SECOUND CHANCE FOR A BITCH OR ANY WOMAN MADE A MISTAK DO YOU KNOW ANY THING ABOUT RELIGION GO READ KORAN WELL ,THEN TALK GOD SAID WHAT MEANS I AM HERE ANSWERING THE REQUEST FOR ANYONE ASK ME AND HE IS ALWAYS FORGIVE .SALAM MEANS PEACE MAN SO ISLAM SAID IT BEFORE US PEACE MAN AND YOU DONT KNOW WHAT IS PEACE BECAUSE YOU DIDNT TRIED TO BE TORTURED OR SUFFERD MAYBE LATER YOU WILL ,…. MAHMOUD MANSOUR CAIRO EGYPT THE MOTHER OF ALL THE WORLD LOL

  88. mahmoud mansour says:

    any Egyptian or any one knows Arabic language comment again est the mufti is not good person , there is a big deference between freedom&bad moral or behavior or manners that man who you insulting him is a big religion man i don’t care if he is Muslim or christian or Jew or even pagan . one. he is sure bigger than you . two. he learned religion more than you .3. he who will be judged infront of God or Allah or alrahman or alraheem, elmalk, alslam …etc because he is oli alamr you must do what he say that if you know Islam or read the quran before. i am not a religion man at all, i am so fare to be a shiek , and i am not hiding or afraid to say that because it is a fact and i trust that 100% because easily anyone know Arabic language he or she can read that in the Islamic religion,sorry my Arabic letters dont want to work it is from my system . asaalo ahl alzekr in kontom la talmoon, who is ahl alzekr or oli alamr ? God had how many names ? the answer is not 99 . you can ask ,al salam ala ahl alsalam .

  89. Mohamed
    All I could make out of your little diatribe (that means lots and lots of shitty babble- look it up) is the little bit about returning honor “RETURN HER HONOR ONCE AGAIN ”
    Honor is not something that sits between a woman’s legs- that is the whole problem with this ridiculous fatwa and your ridiculous rant.
    Instead of coming here and wasting your time- take yourself down to the British Council (it’s in Agouza) or try the ILC in Sahafeyeen and LEARN ENGLISH.

  90. Hosni Mubarek says:

    Well, we hear so much about this 70 virgin stuff. I guess this guy figured out how to have 1 virgin 70 times.

  91. pls if any body could give me the doctors detail or hospital where re hymenization takes place pls help me.

  92. Nic Volkeren says: