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Saturday, 26 Jan 2008
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Rules of modern Invasion: In order to effectively invade a country (what do you call the blowing up of borders and the forced entry of hundreds of thousands of foreigners if not an invasion), what you need to do is put the women and children in the front. This way, the people on the border you are trying to get over would be forced to shoot at women and children in order to stop you. And if you are Egyptian considering this as some sort of exaggeration of the situation, one has to wonder what your reaction would've been if the people blowing up our borders and storming in were Israelis: would it still be ok in your books? There is a silver-lining to all of this though: it gives us the blueprint to do what we want and get away with murder. I say we should gather up all of Egypt's poor and march them towards the Saudi borders, cause, u know, they are our arab borthers and their living conditions are better than ours. We will send women and children first, and have them swim over, which the media will give some fancy name for, some Red Sea-Moses-let-my-people-go analogy, "crossing the divide" or " Channeling People Power" or some bullshit like that, and then we can effectively take over Saudi, or at least Jeddah. Yeah, that should work. LIBERATE MECCA!
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This was all premeditated: Hamas has been cutting the wall for a month now, preparing for it to come down on the eve of the Palestinian factions conference hosted by Hamas in Syria. This was done in order to maximize the media attention to Khaled Mesh3el and his gang of Syrian-Iranian-backed cronies, thus giving them more of the spotlight than they would've ever received. This is a PR stunt, a Hamas PR stunt to be exact, and as always, the Palestinian people are being used as props and tools, but not only them. The Egyptian Left was used as well. The Muslim Brotherhood had arranged far too quickly a demonstration in downtown Cairo, which they of course invited the leftists over, because, you know, Islamists and socialist Marxists are like two peas in the same ideological pod, right? Right. The MB knew about this, and they were very quick to support Hamas, not because the Palestinians are suffering, but because they really want the Hamas project to work out, you know, them being the first Muslim Brotherhood government in the region. Good on you leftists, you are being used, once again, for the advancements of the goals of the Muslim Brotherhood. Were you always such stupid political whores, or is this just the case of really wanting to matter once again? I am curious. Let me know.
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The Palestinians are the Gods of the PR game: No one, and I mean no one, have the ability to manipulate the media like the Palestinian authorities. I mean seriously, mucho respect to y'all. I mean, did you see that picture of Haneiyah having a cabinet meeting lit by candle-light? Or the way the women and children looked like, as they crossed the border as the wall fell down? Or the "People Power" branding they gave the entire thing? Yes, cause I am sure the Palestinian government did not store enough fuel for itself in cases of emergency, or that the fact that the words "People Power" showed up in every fuckin
blog post and news item covering this debacle was merely a telepathic coincidence amongst all the writers the world over. I love it. Gives me the warm fuzzies all over, you know? -
The people aren't as hungry or suffering as you all claim: A Palestinian-american friend of mine just came back from visiting his grandparents in Gaza ( just jumped over the fence and back he said, no one is controlling the borders apparently), and he was telling me how the entire "they are hungry people looking for food" headline story is a crock of shit. He laughingly told me that they are buying motorcycles, mattresses and TV's and other such basic survival needs (the media is confirming it if you think I am lying you big morons), and how some of his family members after going to Al Areesh-on the first day of the "people power" event-for vacation mind you, were like "This is Areesh? This sucks! Gaza is better!" and then went back the next day. He also told me that the price of the AK 47 in Gaza has now dropped to a measly 400 JD's. There is apparently too much supply to the demand. Yay for Open Borders!
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Israel's plan is now clear: The Israelis want to throw Gaza on Egypt, and Hamas is playing into their hand. The moment Mubarak, in order to save face of not being able to secure the country's borders, said that he is letting people in cause "they are hungry" (wink wink, nudge nudge), the Israelis were like "well, if you are gonna do that, you get to keep them. They are your responsibility now" and then probably danced in glee. Not gonna happen cousins, they are not yours to give or ours to keep. This is your and their's problem, not ours, and they are still your responsibility. Sorry kids, but we are not going back to the days of Pre-1967. You took over those areas, you can't give them back to us 40 years later after its run by Iranian-backed- Muslim Brotherhood Islamists who are armed to the teeth. Pottery Barn rules apply here too Israelis: You broke it, you are just gonna have to buy it.
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The world is still filled with useful idiots: Nothing makes my heart warmer than American leftist hippies chanting slogans in 4X4 beat or declaring Support for Hamas. Yes, yes, Viva Viva Intifada, indeed.
- Egypt is planning its own disengagement: File this under fantastic unconfirmed rumors my friend. A good source of mine informed me that he was just in a meeting where an agreement for a second Sinai canal was made, one that would separate Sinai from Asia (and thus Gaza) permanently. The proposed Canal will benefit both Egypt, Jordan and Israel financially, and will provide a water replenishing source for the Jordanian Dead Sea, which ahs been losing water for quite some time now. It's initial phase will cost 15 Billion US dollars, and according to the source 12 Billion of which are coming from Qatar. This should give Gaza a second beach and a second port away from the Israeli navy, which should enable them to get all the goods they ever need through ships and not resort to blowing walls. I do propose giving the Palestinians a piece of the action though, cause otherwise they will start shooting at commerce ships passing through until they do get some money out of it. Their apologist then will claim such actions as being done "out of the desperation caused by the humanitarian crisis", so I am sure y'all would understand.
January 26th, 2008 at 11:03 am
There is little we can do to protect our borders since the camp david treaty says that there can only be 700 (or around that) egyptian troops in sinai, What can 700 soldiers do against a mass scale invasion of hundreds of thousands?
If this crisis taught us anything, it is to protect our borders well with any means possible, whether by digging moats or planting explosives and shock wires…and butt out of this whole Palestinian cause.
January 26th, 2008 at 11:14 am
What makes you think that it is an israeli thing to deal with, SM? Israel disengaged and not without a reason and they rather have Egypt (with whom they signed a peace treaty) to take control over the gaza than being blamed for causing a ‘humanitarian crisis’ there - which is far beyond the truth.
January 26th, 2008 at 11:17 am
Cockroaches Sam, cockroaches. I’ll get the guest room ready.
January 26th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
[...] (Cross-posted from The Egyptian Sandmonkey) [...]
January 26th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
[...] Gaza lessons and facts [...]
January 26th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
” Nothing makes my heart warmer than American leftist hippies chanting slogans in 4X4 beat or declaring Support for Hamas.”
Where do you see this?
I can only speak for myself, but I am tired of the entire mess at the east end of the mediterranean.They are all assholes.
“American leftist hippies” are blathering about the war in babylon, the election, or what happened to Britney Spears. The situation in Gaza is way down on the list of things folks in America care about.
January 26th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
“some Red Sea-Moses-let-my-people-go analogy”
THAT was funny.
January 26th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
I really don’t know if Egypt knows what are the consequences of this. Personally I am afraid how this will impact safety and tourism in Egypt, Are our leaders real idoits to leave these people entring Egypt in this way.. or they are jackles putting some pressure on Israel to change the conditions of camp david? really I don’t know but when I look around me and hear the egyptians talking I am sure we are going to face a real disaster soon from outside or inside….
January 26th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
De facto…the Palestinians now have their own country…They could have done something enormously positive with it; for their people, for the Arab world, for ME peace and for the world at large. A few decent moves and they would have garnered world support and even a huge part of the Jewish world, including Israelis would have been behind them.
But they voted in Hamas and Hamas decided to go the macho route. Reminds me of the title of a book “The Arab Dream Palace”. Hamas was going to stand up to Israel instead of making an effort to be a good neighbor…and now this…More misery for all and today they are injuring Egyptians…Well…welcome to our club.
Just like EVERY opportunity they have had in the past, they have FUCKED IT UP. And yes I feel very sorry for average Joe (sorry average Yusuf) Palestinian…but do they feel sorry for average Joe (Sorry, Yosef) Serdrot Israeli?
They will twist and PR this to death…but maybe slowly the world will see more clearly that, overall, Palestinian leadership and much of the Arab world is primarily responsible for the misery of these people AND their neighbors.
January 26th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
SM
Regarding #5…If they stop bombing us…we could ultimately be friends. How should we respond? Genocide? Peace talks? What would the plan be that has not been tried for the last 100 years and spit back in our faces?
January 26th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
“Not gonna happen cousins, they are not yours to give or ours to keep. This is your and their’s problem, not ours, and they are still your responsibility.”
Allow me to show you where you are mistaken:
1. It IS going to happen.
2. They ARE yours to keep.
3. This IS your problem.
4. They’re NOT israel’s responsibility.
You see, ever since the disengagment, and the take over of Hamas, the Gaza strip is really none of Israel’s buisness. And if they insist shooting rockets over our side of the border, well, there’s not much sense in us providing them with water and electricity, is there?
What makes more sense than for egypt to take over running Gaza again? you did such fine job until 67`. and hunestly, you cannot name israel as the sole responsible for what happened to Gaza in the last 40 years. Hamas didn’t just came to be out of nothing, it was due to Mubarak allowing the Muslim Brothers to blow some stream over the border, where it couldn’t hurt him. that’s the equvilant of taking your dog to take a crap on your neghibore’s lawn.
For 40 years Israel and the Phalestines were stuck together in a gurdian knote. an unatural, unsolvable state, gleefuly orchestered by Egypt and Jordan. It apears as though, finally, things are starting to change.
January 26th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
Isn’t it beautiful? The Gazans have destroyed an “apartheid wall” to smell the sweet scent of freedom… and half-priced cigarettes.
If the Israelis, the Egyptians, and the Palestinians were at all smart, they would work together to pressure the Europeans to grant sanctuary to all 1.5 million Gazans. It would mean peace and quiet for the Israelis and Egyptians, and vastly improved standards of living for the Gazans. Everyone wins.
Except the Europeans.
Which is the way it should be.
January 26th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
Point 5- I do find Israel’s reaction to Egypt saving the day, somewhat annoying. By opening up the borders, we potentially averted a humanitarian crisis, and an international outcry against Israel shutting its border. And instead of giving us a hearty slap on the back, we get the: this is your deal now, we’re gonna seal up our borders and hand this over to you… er no. Lol @ pottery barn rules apply but yeah they do.
The other point is that I was surprised that palestinians were bringing in cement and stuff from Egypt. Er, you mean we don’t usually sell this stuff to them- we don’t do any trade at all? That’s uber harsh and not very brotherly really. Ok, so they’re governed by rogue government, but so are a lot of countries. That’s never stopped trade. I think it would stabilise the region to some extent if PAlestine wasn’t so dependent on Israel. so next time either side has a hissy fit, the region isn’t on the brink of war.
January 26th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
Nadav, you are blaming the rise of Hamas on Egypt? HA..
You are right about one thing, Hamas didn’t come to be out of nothing: It got itself a seriously good push from the Mossad at its beginning.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/ZER403A.html
They are your and the Muslim Brotherhood’s Bastard Children, and they now have Syria and Iran as their adoptive parents. I don’t see Egypt having any part in this at all. So, sorry, it’s your creation and your problem, and capitalizing words won’t change a thing about it.
January 26th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
Nadav, erm the problems over the past 40 years were not made by us. This is between you and the Brits, if anything this is all their fault for double crossing you and dividing the land the way they did.
heya masr el 7eta el mayla beta3et kol wa7ed, mat 7elo 3ana ba2a
January 26th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
The sniping is going in the wrong direction.
What this SHOULD be about is:
1. The people of Gaza taking responsibility for their own actions and freaking governing themsevles
2. The people of Gaza attempting to be decent neighbors, starting by not blowing things up and putting an emphasis on terror etc.
3. With a reasonable effort on 1 and 2…Israel, Europe, USA, Egypt…we ALL should try to help them…from a humanitarian perspective and just the self-serving outcome of more stability and less suffering in the area.
But Egypt can point fingers at Israel and Israel right back and we can quote sources etc. Fuck history…right now THESE GUYS need to decide if they want to be macho warriors and make life miserable for everybody in the neighborhood or are they going to wake up…smell the “achwah”, have some humility, knock off the “we will conquer” bullshit and get serious about making peace. This is THEIR fault, THEIR responsibility…not Egypt, not Israel…they have it in their hands to take a different path and I bet you anything they will not and they are already winning the victory of getting us to bark at each other.
How fucking sad is that?
January 26th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
SM, isn’t the Muslim Brotherhood originated in Egypt?
January 26th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
SM,
Whatever the root causes of Hamas and who is to blame more for them, Egypt will now be stuck with Gaza because of Mubarak’s logic. The rationale for the border opening was starving and the blockade. Fair enough. Israel will just say that it is closing its borders completely with Gaza since the Egyptian border is open. What will Mubarak do? Say that now he is closing the borders? He is a victim of his move and will have to supply everything to Gaza. Egyptian supply trucks are already seen in Gaza.
So de facto, Egypt will surely become responsible for Gaza. Take a concrete example. Let’s say Israel decides not to send fuel to Gaza. The Europeans come to complain to Israel. Israel responds, what is the problem, let the fuel come through Egypt, there is an open border. What can the Europeans reply to this? The decision not to sell fuel is not a blockade anymore but a legitimate government decision to not trade with one’s enemies.
If Mubarak cannot close the border within a week, your Egyptian goose is cooked. This is an opportunity even the dense Olmert government will not miss. Mubarak made a mistake and Israel will capitalize on it.
January 26th, 2008 at 5:20 pm
wise words howie
it’s true, we should focus on the hear and now and not just for self serving reasons.( I think Egypt has done a lot for Palestine in the past, we’ve shed blood for them, we welcomed them into Egypt for many years, but anyway…) I think we still have a role to play, albeit a small one
Israel also needs to quit playing rambo, which does provoke Hamas’ violence- let’s put aside that they use bullets instead of words. I don’t wish to open a can of worms, but currently is there not ISraeli government sanctioned settlement building on the East side of Jerusalem? The east side of Jersualem that has been agreed will be allocated to Palestine? Is that not deliberately undermining the peace process? Do you think that doesn’t irk the Palestinians?
January 26th, 2008 at 6:56 pm
“Saturday, the governor of the Egyptian border province of North Sinai said that Egypt would continue allowing Palestinians to come across the border, and that it would help them stock up on supplies.” When you’re invaded by cockroaches, it’s always best to claim that they’re pets.
January 26th, 2008 at 6:57 pm
Kate,
If the Israelis, the Egyptians, and the Palestinians were at all smart, they would work together to pressure the Europeans to grant sanctuary to all 1.5 million Gazans.
The BBC is reporting that as much as half of the population of Gaza is now in Egypt. So that would be 750k Gazans that need to go to Europe? Why can’t they go to Iran, since the Iranians love their Palestinian brothers so much. Seems appropriate that the people who orchestrated the problem get to pick up the tab. Isn’t that what people say about Iraqi refugees? They should all be given a place in the US?
Speaking of which… nice post, SM. I have to disagree with you when you say Israel owns the problem. They don’t. neither do the Europeans, the UN, the Americans, etc. Arabs (and to a lesser extent Iranians) own the problem.
January 26th, 2008 at 7:05 pm
Good post, Sandmonkey, and very good replies, Howie.
The way I see it, though, Hamas will win in this one (both in and out of Gaza) as long as it shows that it cares for the Palestinian public, making the sacrifices that it demands (endless war with Israel) easier to swallow.
Hamas seems to have mastered such tricks, like smuggling money across the border, or bringing down the border fence. It makes people pay more attention to the flashy actions than to the reality of confiscating civilian fuel for the so-called Resistance, of people put at risk when the rocket crews come by, of no jobs and exports… It makes it difficult to hold Hamas responsible, because it does everything it can to help the average Gazan… up to a point.
And that point is where their core beliefs enter, beliefs that center around an armed conflict that will supposedly bring down Israel. That’s their line. They help the Gazans, but not at the cost of their end goal. The question is… how many Gazans share their beliefs? How many don’t? And how many don’t think about it at all because Hamas distracts them with flashy photo ops like bringing down the Gaza border fence?
January 26th, 2008 at 7:09 pm
Anna,
The other point is that I was surprised that palestinians were bringing in cement and stuff from Egypt.
I’ve noticed concrete being mentioned a lot in the press. What do you think they want to build with all that concrete? Houses? Could be, I suppose. Concrete has a lot of military applications, though.
January 26th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
In May of 1967 Gaza was part of Egypt and therefore the Gaza population was Egyptian. Therefore breaking down the barrier to Egypt is not an invasion but merely a homecoming. Israel should cut off all supplies to Gaza permanently and seal her borders with Gaza. Let Egypt deal with her former and future citizenry.
January 26th, 2008 at 8:01 pm
yeah, great idea Kate, why not in Nevada, Arizona, or Missouri though ? that won’t change them much, climatelly speaking
we don’t want them and neither our muslims !
see ya, even the ME muslims don’t want them
January 26th, 2008 at 8:49 pm
Sure, Gazans can come live in Nevada. But I doubt they’d want to. The government hand-outs are tiny compared to Europe, so they’d actually have to work. And people out West don’t take kindly to whiners, so they’d have to cut the complaining. Europeans adore ungrateful sponges, so it would probably be a better fit.
January 26th, 2008 at 8:54 pm
Change of pace and a few laughs:
Sudanese Thinker has a fun dialouge going…if you want a break…take a look and bring a joke or story…this one is my contribution:
Drima…
This is a bit long…but kind of tells part the story of religion’s ambivalence about sex. It helps if you can think the words in a good Jewish accent…”a” become “e” and “ing” becomes “ink”. So…like “dancing” becomes “densink”:
A young religious Jew was enormously excited, he was at the reception of a long awaited day, his wedding.
In the Jewish tradition, the women were divided from the men, men dancing together and women dancing together.
The enthusiastic young man began to wander over to be with his bride and was stopped by the rabbi:
Rabbi: “Vat’s dis you tink you are doink?” (You supply the accent from this point).
Groom: I want to dance with my bride
Rabbi: Why…that’s forbidden.
The groom responded respectfully, but looked very perplexed. The rabbi asked him what the problem was. The groom tried to explain:
“Well…what about later..I mean, you mean I can’t, well..
Rabbi: You are talking about sex?
Groom: Well…yes
Rabbi smiling: Within certain rules, you can have ALL the sex you like…in fact, it is a blessing, a mitzvah!
The groom’s countenance began to glow
Groom: All I want?
Rabbi: Just about
Groom shyly: Well what about…like positions and..
Rabbi: If it gives you joy and pleasure…you can do it any way it pleases you
Groom: Well what about like my mouth on…
Rabbi: Oral sex?…no problem
Groom: getting very excited now: Really? Wow! And after a night of love making, we can then just tumble into each other’s arms and cuddle all morning?
Rabbi in shocked anger: Absolutely NO…too close to dancing.
January 26th, 2008 at 9:19 pm
Europeans adore ungrateful sponges, so it would probably be a better fit.
in your dreams :devil:
they would surely take the next charter to the hell
January 26th, 2008 at 9:24 pm
I’m glad you can shed some light on what is going on over there in your region. Good job.
January 26th, 2008 at 9:33 pm
Hey everybody, it's me, SandMonkey. Ok, so Gazans are doing great, they're not hungry. Sure, the statistics say otherwise. Sure, according to the World Food Programme, three-quarters of Gaza's 1.5 million residents rely on U.N. assistance to cover 61-65 percent of their basic needs. International aid agencies' figures show that 35 percent of Gazans live on less than two dollars a day; unemployment stands at around 50 percent; and 80 percent of Gazans receive some form of humanitarian assistance. But see, the World Food Programme and the international aid agencies, they're all part of that global anti-semitic conspiracy to destroy Israel. Gazans are well off, I swear it!
Please, neocons and Zionists, accept me. I have no friends, everybody made fun of me growing up, so I figure by spewing stupid shit that panders to your tastes, then maybe you guys will accept me. PLEASE ACCEPT ME! Gazans are doing great! Yes, hundreds of thousands of civilians crossing a border is a premeditated deliberate INVASION, i swear it, it's not some sort've natural response to a situation. Please accept me, I'm sad, stupid, and lonely.
-SandMonkey
January 26th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
Sure, according to the World Food Programme, three-quarters of Gaza’s 1.5 million residents rely on U.N. assistance to cover 61-65 percent of their basic needs. International aid agencies’ figures show that 35 percent of Gazans live on less than two dollars a day;
And 2 billion people in the world can only dream about making $2 a day, and don’t have anyone to supply their basic needs - which is a whopping 0% of their basic needs covered by international welfare, if you have as much trouble with math as you do with being able to type your own name.
January 26th, 2008 at 10:10 pm
We have some land right down the street from me that Gazans are welcome to:
http://www.clui.org/clui_4_1/lotl/v26/
They’ll even have jobs, working in the quarries.
Of course, since it’s so close to my house, a large wall will have to be constructed around Irwindale. And since they’d have access to bulldozers and explosives (quarrying gravel is hard work, don’t you know) we’ll need to deploy the National Guard to keep them from blowing up the wall and helping themselves to all my stuff.
I think Gazans would feel right at home. There aren’t many Jews around here for them to fire rockets at, but they could fire rockets at the Mexicans in Azusa or Baldwin Park. Luckily, I don’t think those Qassims can reach my neighborhood from there.
January 26th, 2008 at 10:13 pm
Israel created this problem with their inhumane sieges that propelled Hamas into power in the first place and left them there. Fuck you Israel. The Palestinians are not Egypt’s problem. You break it, you fix it douchebags.
January 26th, 2008 at 10:31 pm
++
flashback re: blame..
The world’s collective amnesia
excerpt:
["The fact that there are these refugees is the direct consequence of the act of the Arab states in opposing partition and the Jewish state. The Arab states agree upon this policy unanimously and they must share in the solution of the problem."
– Emile Ghoury, secretary of the Palestinian Arab Higher Committee, in an interview with the Beirut Telegraph Sept. 6, 1948.
"The Arab state which had encouraged the Palestine Arabs to leave their homes temporarily in order to be out of the way of
the Arab invasion armies, have failed to keep their promise to
help these refugees."
– The Jordanian daily newspaper Falastin, Feb. 19, 1949.
"Who brought the Palestinians to Lebanon as refugees, suffering now from the malign attitude of newspapers and communal leaders, who have neither honor nor conscience? Who brought them over in dire straits and penniless, after they lost their honor? The Arab states, and Lebanon amongst them, did it."
– The Beirut Muslim weekly Kul-Shay, Aug. 19, 1951.
"The 15th May, 1948, arrived ... On that day the mufti of Jerusalem appealed to the Arabs of Palestine to leave the country, because the Arab armies were about to enter and fight in their stead."
– The Cairo daily Akhbar el Yom, Oct. 12, 1963.
"For the flight and fall of the other villages it is our leaders who are responsible because of their dissemination of rumors exaggerating Jewish crimes and describing them as atrocities in order to inflame the Arabs ... By spreading rumors of Jewish atrocities, killings of women and children etc., they instilled fear and terror in the hearts of the Arabs in Palestine, until they fled leaving their homes and properties to the enemy."
– The Jordanian daily newspaper Al Urdun, April 9, 1953.]
==
January 26th, 2008 at 10:34 pm
Well, the bottom line is I’m not crazy about having a free flowing open border with Hamasistan. Who knows what the hell is flowing into and out of Egypt! 750,000 people???
January 26th, 2008 at 11:10 pm
there’s still no excuse for the palis mentality, if it wasnt israel it would be someone else. they are pawns and they like it. you think in right or wrong, they think in good or evil. the logics dont mesh.
in fighting evil you can do whatever you want, whenever you want to.
now egypt is going to get pissed because they are going to have to foot the bill, its as if the walls were an instrument the israelis have been playing all along. the egyptians will now supply the gazans directly or indirectly so the isrealis can counterattack them and give the egyptians another bitching point. but underneath it all no one will really care.
give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day.
teach a man to fish and you will feed him for the rest of his life.
if a man doesnt want to fish, he’s a swimmer.
the palis are swimmers washed back and forth by the tides of arab hypocrisy. if the palis decided to act right, their arab brothers would probably wipe them out to stop them.
be proactive
begin with and end in mind
put first things first
synergize
seek first to understand then to be understood
think win/win
sharpen the saw
the palis cant even do number one.
January 26th, 2008 at 11:40 pm
Craig…
Gonna rain hard in Irwindale pretty soon…should be plenty of gravel for everybody.
Anybody for a boat ride down the mighty San Gabriel River?
Oh…and the Mexicans would take about one rocket and would do much more than reduce energy supplies.
January 27th, 2008 at 12:09 am
#32, Pretty good post Craig, I’m still chuckling to myself!!
January 27th, 2008 at 12:46 am
SM @ 30
Your reply is too Jewish.
$2 a day. It is impossible to live on it in US.
How much can one afford living in Gaza?
What is typical daily Egyptian income per category (doctor, worker, …)?
January 27th, 2008 at 1:33 am
Oh…and the Mexicans would take about one rocket and would do much more than reduce energy supplies.
Maybe so, Howie. I’m thinking Gazans might have a completely different understanding of what “collective punishment” really is after the first time they tangled with LA street gangs.
January 27th, 2008 at 4:24 am
bg #34,
Don’t let the facts interfere with a good argument!
What I don’t understand, is if the Palestinians are so poor (y’know, no salaries, 110% unemployment, yada, yada), where is the money coming from for their PURCHASES in Egypt? The TVs, motorbikes, even the food and fuel? How can they pay for it, if they have no money? I must be missing something here.
Okay, here’s another thing I don’t understand. Euros and Canadian Supremacists are always yammering on about how economic sanctions are the preferred form of diplomatic muscle in foreign affairs. And certainly the Arab League has been comfortable with an organized international boycott of Israel. And lefties everywhere approved heartily of the sanctions placed on South Africa. So, why is it that when Israel cuts off economic activity with Gaza, it’s not the beloved “sanctions”, but “collective punishment”? What about the sanctions imposed on South Africa (”I ain’t gonna play Sun City” and Zola Budd and all) WASN’T “collective punishment”? Just curious. If it’s so darn good for the goose, why is it a crime against humanity for the gander?
January 27th, 2008 at 4:32 am
Sandmonkey, I got around to reading that Global Research article that you posted, and I can’t help but wonder if you bothered to do the same.
I won’t deny that Hamas enjoyed support while it was playing the “religious charity” game, but to claim that Israel created Hamas in order to create a terrorist group to oppose peace and blow up Israeli civilians… Either the writer is out of his mind, or you are for posting such crap. Anyone with a memory can break apart the claims of that article, starting with the idiotic theory that Netanyahu freed Yassin to rejuvinate Hamas.
Yassin was freed after a failed assassination attempt against Khaled Mishaal, in Jordan, which itself was put into motion after a terror attack in Israel that left dozens dead and hundreds injured. Mishaal planned it. Jordan demanded his freedom and an antidote for Mishaal as part of the deal that saw the freeing of the Mossad agent who failed in killing Mishaal.
January 27th, 2008 at 5:56 am
Sandmonkey! You’re baaaacccckkkk!!!!! Yay! Will have to catch up on all of your posts now.
I have not even read this post yet. I presume it is good. Just wanted to say “hi” and how glad I am to see you posting again!
January 27th, 2008 at 9:25 am
[...] from the Sand Monkey Rules of modern Invasion: In order to effectively invade a country (what do you call the blowing [...]
January 27th, 2008 at 9:38 am
bj #41
Euros and Canadian Supremacists are always yammering ….
What about US liberals, don’t they yammer too? They even got invited Ahmadinejad and your government agencies, famous CIA included, said that IRI does not even try to produce atomic bombs……..peacefull nuclear programs, you know.
@Craig #32
Hilarious, can’t stop laughing.
@Leo
You can not live on $2 a day in US, but you can in Africa. Word does not end neither does it begin in US and Europe.
January 27th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
The other day I asked why Hamas started shooting and well I got no answer. I had no idea that a couple of weeks ago, this started going on:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7172253.stm
All the comments are just one sided and pointing the finger unjustly at the Palestinians for starting this. The silence regarding why the heck Israel is building Jewish settlements on Palestinian land is well deafening. East Jerusalem was been allocated to the Palestinians yet earlier this month, the construction of 300 homes for Jewish settlers began at Har Homa. If you take the palestinians’ land, they are naturally going to get angry- CAUSE AND EFFECT!. Oh but they shouldn’t resort to violence, but what option have you left them?? YOU’ve just gone against the peace talks in Annapolis. Since sitting down and discussing issues hasn’t worked it is no wonder that Hamas resorted to violence. Instead you go on to cause more injustice by sealing up your borders and switching off the power on them. So you can do what you want to them and they’re not allowed to protest? GIVE THE PALESTINIANS BACK THEIR LAND.
January 27th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
fuck the palestinians. until when will we tolerate their shit! the Egyptian army should send troops and shoot this garbage . and fuck camp david treaty!
January 27th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
this was a very intersting blog post.
I am afraid I have been feeling a tad ” warm and fuzzy” about the people power thing. However I did here they had been cutting at the wall for a month…made me think. I might have to take down a real stupid blog post I did about all this.
Oh well, learn something new everyday!
I still think the Gazan conditions are shite…just this whole rafah crossing thing is viewed entirely differently by me now!
January 27th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
Anna-
You have a classic problem with what I refer to as the punctuation of time…
Do you really believe this current issue started as a reaction to something so recent? You can’t take it out of the total historical concept, which arguably goes back thousands of years and certainly began at least 130 years ago…
So you take the route:”Well terror is just a response to frustration”. And, of course, we argue; “Aggression is a counter response to terror” and we will argue that FOREVER. You think I am wrong… I think you are wrong…just like I thought you were wrong when you earlier spoke of Egypt “spilling their blood for the Palestinians”, which I think is a joke of a comment.
1. Egypt does not care for her own people and abuses them
2. If Egypt is so damn concerned for fellow Muslims…why don’t they go to war over Sudan to save the Muslims of Darfur…who are dying at very alarming rates.
3. Why…for years…if Egypt so cared for her brothers…did she lick the boots of the Soviet Union…THE biggest oppressor of Muslims in the entire history of the world I believe?
You say “give the Palestinians back their land”. Well…they got Gaza back and from day one they created an utter disaster with it.
I say…”GIVE THE PALESTINIANS A HOMELAND”…but not until they can prove they can govern through means other than terror, murder, riots, threats and violence.
You start history in Annapolis…well no…and Annapolis accomplished nothing.
Me…I put 90% of the blame on the Palestinians who have proven themselves to always make the bad choice…then sucker people like Anna.
January 27th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
BrooklynJon,
I presume the Gazans are shopping with 1.) foreign aid money and 2.) remittances from relatives abroad and 3.) donations from supporters abroad.
As for relative wealth, here are some GDP per capita numbers from the most recent years available:
Egypt: $4,200
Jordan: $5,100
Lebanon: $5,700
Israel: $26,800
West Bank: $1,100 (a/o 2003)
Gaza: $600 (a/o 2003)
Those numbers work out to something much smaller for the average person, because of the highly uneven distribution of wealth. But clearly the Gazans are the poorest people in the neighborhood. And social scientists have long said that people judge their own wealth not as an absolute number, but in comparison to those around them.
For a few other comparisons:
Qatar: $75,900
United Arab Emirates: $55,200
Kuwait: $55,300
United States: $46,000
United Kingdom: $35,300
As far as aid goes, according to the World Bank Palestinians receive $469 per person. In 2005, they received $600 million from the EU and $400 million from the US. I’m not sure about other sources - maybe someone else knows?
Of course, numbers don’t explain WHY some people are poorer than others, and that’s the interesting question.
My two cents: Regardless of natural resources, people and communities and countries who are interested in creating wealth become wealthy because they work hard to do so. People and communities and countries who are interested in other things (maintaining their honor, spreading their religion, reclaiming past glories, etc.) do not.
January 27th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
I think Olmert and Mubarak should sit together and find an effective way to wipe Hamas off the earth for good. And establish a new border policy to keep both countries safe.
January 27th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
This whole problem would evaporate in six months if the surrounding Arab countries and Iran would allow the Palestinians living in their countries to buy their own homes with their own money. It wouldn’t even take citizenship.
January 27th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
sm, oooofff ! eh el naas el bee2a di el beteegi hena. 3agbak kol el 2ehenaat di, 2oltelak ekteb 7aga 3edla 3an masr. Shoflak 7al 3ashan levels el ta5olof hena ba2et lah tootak. And the blog keeps crashing everytime I comment so I have to keep reloading.
January 27th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
“The world is still filled with useful idiots: Nothing makes my heart warmer than American leftist hippies”
I resemble that remark.
January 27th, 2008 at 6:15 pm
Anna,
They’re not bee2a ,they’re just maganeen rasmy. As with your pleading with the SandMonkey to become more rational or fair, well good luck, it’s a given that he’s a bona fide piece of crap, but he’s not stupid at all, he knows that the vast majority of his readership is composed of mental patients, nazis, hillbillies and decency deficient characters like Craig, Howie etc, so he knows quite well that whenever he writes anything showing a hint of an iota of fairness, he’s gonna have every accusation in the book thrown at him (terrorist apologist, anti-semite etc.), I think that the fake sandmonkey had him all figured out.
PS: Out of all of the nutty and irrational comments said here, Craig’s comment about the palestinians going back to Gaza with cement and his concern about the “military applications” of concrete, was really cute, clinically paranoid but cute, so please Einstein, give me one example of such an application, and please, don’t prove my point (about your mental condition) by saying they’re gonna use it to build bunkers. God, you people are painful.
January 27th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
Great post, SM. But there are a few little errors. Like, “Sorry kids, but we are not going back to the days of Pre-1967. ” Pottery Barn Rules?
Well, let’s just step back to the actual moment of breakage and examine the video tapes, shall we?
Just after WWII, the Jews had just begun entering their land and building up the economy, not displacing any ARABS from the arid nomadic and hardscrabble lives they led, but providing jobs and prosperity they’d never seen before. By ‘48, their population had boomed. It was looking bad on the local regimes, so they issued a warning to the local ARABs to get out for a little while, until the mighty ARAB armies dealt with these intruder upstart Jews once and for all. So “temporary” refugee camps were set up around the tiny space the Jews were polluting.
Oops.
Now, generations later, the ARABs continue to pretend the Jews drove the “Palestinians” off “their” lands.
I call ‘Bullshit’. So should you.
January 27th, 2008 at 6:31 pm
Mohamed-
Well… your truly are a prophet…
Not one intelligent comment…but a great job at namecalling…
I must say…you truly are a perfect representative of the people you advocate for.
January 27th, 2008 at 6:57 pm
The military applications of concrete? Reinforcing certain buildings (such as those used for rocket production), building yet more training facilities for Hamas (like the ones it has scattered all over Gaza), to name a couple.
Just last week, Hamas confiscated civilian fuel throughout Gaza, for use in their vehicles. Perhaps you’ll claim that fuel also doesn’t have military applications? In Gaza, *manure* has military applications (one of the main ingredients of the lower-grade Kassam rocket explosive charges). You can thank Hamas for putting everything it can to use in its war.
January 27th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
@ Roman Kalik
hahahahah reinforcing rocket production facilities? are you serious?
Did you actually see what those rockets look like?
January 27th, 2008 at 7:27 pm
++
O Says:
January 27th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
Did you actually see what those rockets look like?
have you seen what those rockets do??
btw.. whatever the rockets “look like” is totally irrelevant to their intent..
==
January 27th, 2008 at 7:48 pm
Sandmonkey,
You know you and your fellow Egyptians would never try to take over Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is the United States’ “Sugar Daddy.” The Saudis invest trillions of dollars in the United States and buy billions of dollars worth of weapons (which they don’t even have the qualified personnel to operate) from the United States. Anyone who gets in the way of the money path from Saudi Arabia to the United States, will get bombed out of existence.
January 27th, 2008 at 7:53 pm
@Mohammed, I’m sure they are going to use the concrete solely for building houses and closing tunnels by pouring concrete into their shafts.
January 27th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
++
Arafat’s Billions ( November 9, 2003 )
excerpts:
[So far, Prince's team has determined that part of the Palestinian leader's wealth was in a secret portfolio worth close to $1 billion -- with investments in companies like a Coca-Cola bottling plant in Ramallah, a Tunisian cell phone company and venture capital funds in the U.S. and the Cayman Islands.
Although the money for the portfolio came from public funds like Palestinian taxes, virtually none of it was used for the Palestinian people; it was all controlled by Arafat. And, Prince says, none of these dealings were made public.]
["Arafat for years would cry poor, saying, 'I can't pay the salaries, we're gonna have a disaster here, the Palestinian economy is going to collapse,'" says Indyk. "And we would all mouth those words: 'The Palestinian economy is going to collapse if we don't do something about this.' But at the same time, he's accumulating hundreds of millions of dollars." ]
[All told, U.S. officials estimate Arafat's personal nest egg at between $1 billion and $3 billion.]
[Did he steal from his own people?
"He defines himself as being the embodiment of the Palestinian people," Ross answers. "So what's good for him is good for them. Did they benefit? The answer is no. Did they lose? The answer is yes."
Palestinians certainly paid dearly for something else Fayyad uncovered: a system of monopolies in commodities -- like flour and cement -- that Arafat handed out to his cronies, who then turned around and fleeced the public.
Fayyad says it could accurately be seen as gouging his own people. "And especially in Gaza which is poorer, which is something that is totally unacceptable and immoral, actually."
Of all the monopolies, none was as lucrative or as corrupt as the General Petroleum Corporation, the one for gasoline. The corporation took the fuel it purchased from an Israeli company and watered it down with kerosene, not only defrauding the Palestinian drivers, but wrecking their car engines.]
[Rachid says that "transfers to Leumi Bank account never stayed. It was receiving the revenues and transferring the revenues to the Palestinian Authority's account in the Arab bank in Gaza."
He's saying the Leumi money was sent to the Palestinian Authority. But, in fact, much of it was sent to Switzerland, to the prestigious Lombard Odier Bank, for yet another secret investment account that held over $300 million. In a letter obtained by CBS News, Rachid tells the bank that the funds will come from Palestinian "taxes" and "customs revenues."
"It was all under the name of the Palestinian authorities," Rachid says. Doesn't he mean Arafat? "No, Palestinian Authorities, Palestinian Authorities."
Actually, it was under a code name, "Ledbury" -- not the Palestinian Authority -- and Minister Fayyad says that this pot of money, too, was available only to Arafat. The Swiss account was closed out in 2001. No one really knows where that money is today.]
Why was €1m a month sent to Arafat’s wife?
excerpt:
[French public prosecutors said yesterday they had opened a money-laundering inquiry into suspect transfers totalling some €9m (£6m) into Paris bank accounts held by the wife of the Palestinian leader, Yasser Arafat.
The preliminary inquiry, which will determine whether a full investigation is warranted, was launched after the Bank of France and Tracfin, the French anti-laundering agency, noticed regular payments of about €1m a month entering Suha Arafat's accounts. An official said the money, from "a Swiss institution", was paid into two separate accounts at the Arab Bank and the Banque Nationale de Paris in the name of Mrs Arafat, who lives in Paris. ]
French Question $11 Million Sent to Arafat’s Wife
excerpt:
[Le Canard Enchaîné also reported that the European Union had begun an investigation into management of an estimated $444 million in aid that the union is giving the Palestinian Authority. The aid accounts for about a third of the authority's budget.]
a side note:
Abbas: Ramallah to name street after French President Jacques Chirac
excerpt:
[Abbas said he told Chirac that Ramallah's mayor had decided "to name of the one most important streets" in the city after Chirac. Chirac's spokesman said the French leader appreciated that gesture of friendship.]
go figure..
==
January 27th, 2008 at 8:21 pm
@bg
“btw.. whatever the rockets “look like” is totally irrelevant to their intent..”
Sure, but lets not distort things out of proportion more than they already are..
January 27th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
O, yes I have seen them. This does not change the fact that their production facilities (often converted civilian factories and warehouses) are instant targets for the Israeli military. Kassams keep getting better and more accurate, and Hamas has a vested interest in trying to keep good engineers alive - even if it means merely postponing the factory’s destruction for a minute for the hope of giving the production crew a chance to escape.
Once upon a time, there was a Palestinian explosives-maker who was an expert an incindiary devices. Said bombs found their way, on suicide bombers, into Israeli buses. Cultivating further such people is difficult if they die before reaching their full potential.
January 27th, 2008 at 8:47 pm
SM,
Sorry man but this is one of the most fucked up pieces you ever wrote. I haven’t seen anything like it in three years of you blogging. I love how you title it as “facts” you know I usually respond to your pro-zionist topics but this one is not worth my time.
Keep ranting my dear.
Anna and Mohamed,
It is not worth it really guys it is so stupid to comment on.
January 27th, 2008 at 9:05 pm
I think Patrick also Heats Israel
You want to see a picture of the poor Palestinian who had to escape Gaza and buy food to survive? http://thereligionofpeace.com/
The motorcycle was just parked nearby and just like anyone who enjoys crotch rockets he had a picture taken with it. How could he afford to buy one when everyone around him was starving? Well, this link might not prove anything but it is interesting when it kind of ties in with other comments and what SM put in his post.
Poor Hamas. My heart does break for their unfair situation. God, Buddha or Krishna willing, one day they will all reach their paradise and leave us on Earth to enjoy it’s “mediocre” fruits. I kinda like Kali. She’s got 6 hands
Mo @ 53 Hi
why so angry with SM? Is he threatening your own beliefs? Are they that rocky to not be able to withstand someone’s opinion without name calling? People do argue in here a lot, but mostly in a constructive way.
SM, always having interesting posts.
January 27th, 2008 at 9:41 pm
Problems in the middle east don’t get solved, they have a history of getting progressively worse
Israel and Egypt playing hot potato with Gaza will be typical of the region while the situation escalates and the MB’s try to find a way to move the whole thing to their advantage, while Bush hovers overheads trying to find some way to resolve the unresolvable
Let’s break it down
It’s a given that none of the three sides are going to change anytime soon, so we aren’t going anywhere except that now Egypt will have a mini MB state on its borders as a little foretaste of what’s coming
January 27th, 2008 at 10:20 pm
Masters of PR
The Sandmonkey:In order to effectively invade a country (what do you call the blowing up of borders and the forced
January 27th, 2008 at 10:28 pm
I like how building illegal settlements on the wrong side of the border in some peoples eyes jusitfy sending rockets across the border to hit random targets… If there is anything to be learnt from the Israel/Palestine conflict, it is that the muslim world seems completely impervious to the lessons that Gandhi tought us in India half a century ago. If you truly want to have a peacefull and just relationship with your neighbour, violence is never the way to go. Peacefull protests against any illegal Israely settlements would go a lot longer to solving the crisis and getting Israel to keep it’s promises than any rocket or bomb could ever do. The conclussion must be that the Palestinians (or rather it’s neighbouring countries) have no interest in solving the conflict.
A sad tendency to worship violenc