For some Perspective

Shamelessly stolen from here:

In other words, Palestinians are about in the mid-average range for
third-world countries, and rank almost the same as Mexico (the USA's
bordering country and trade ally) on the poverty index. Interesting.

For some perspective

Human Poverty Index (HPI-1) 2004
Palestinians have a better time than:

Syria, Egypt, Pakistan, Yemen, Morocco, Africa and most of South Africa, Central America and Asia

Probability of not surviving past age 40(%)2004
Palestinians have a better time than:

Syria, Egypt, Pakistan, Yemen, Morocco, Africa and most of South Africa, Central America and Asia

Adult illiteracy rate (%ages 15 and older)2004
Palestinians have a better time than:

Syria, Egypt, Pakistan, Yemen, Morocco, Africa and most of South Africa, Central America and Asia

People without access to an improved water source (%) 2004
Palestinians have a better time than:

Syria, Egypt, Pakistan, Yemen, Morocco, Africa and most of South Africa, Central America and Asia

Children underweight for age (% ages 0-5) 2004
Palestinians have a better time than:

Syria, Egypt, Pakistan, Yemen, Morocco, Africa and most of South Africa, Central America and Asia

Zionists! *shakes fist in the air*

Check it out yourself here! 

Comments

  1. Interesting!

    Where are they compared to US and Europe?

  2. This is what you get for trying to murder millions of Jews? No wonder everybody wants to get in on the action…

  3. 1) Given that such statistics are generally at least a year old by the time they’re published and that these figures lump Palestinians the West Bank and Gaza together, this doesn’t really address the problems caused Israel’s siege of Gaza.

    2) The measure you cite are important. But your comparison reminds me of people who say that black people in the U.S. were better off before emancipation because at least as slaves (once they were on the north American mainland, at least) they wouldn’t starve to death…You cannot measure whether human needs have been met simply with income, life expectancy, or literacy.

    3) Double standards are screwed up. As is leaders raising ire/fear of a common enemy in order to draw attention from their own failings. But the fact that there’s a double standard doesn’t mean that the accusation isn’t true (Palestinians might be better off than Egyptians but that doesn’t mean that they wouldn’t be better off with their own state).

  4. John Cunningham says:

    I think everyone in the Middle East realizes that Gazans have islamorabies. There is no cure for rabies.

  5. Rachel;

    Gaza is responsible for Gaza’s problems. The Israelis ended their occupation, dragging out their own people by force. With the opportunity to establish a functioning region, the Gazans instead resorted to destroying the greenhouses left for their economic benefit, launching rockets in Sderot to restart hostilites, and falling into factional warfare.

    No one can help people who refuse to help themselves, who constantly soil their own nest, and who repeatedly damage their own well being.

  6. brooklynjon says:

    Rachel,

    If Hamas declares Gaza an independent state tomorrow, and Israel decides to have nothing to do with this state, is this a siege? Can’t a state decide what crosses its borders and under what circumstances?

    If it wouldn’t be a siege then, why is it one now? Surely it’s not the emergency fuel, food, electricity, and medical supplies provided to Gaza by Israel that are placing Israel morally on the hook. Gaza wanted to be an independent entity, and now it is one. Let the Gazans behave as such.

  7. Rachel
    “You cannot measure whether human needs have been met simply with income, life expectancy, or literacy.”
    What other measures would you include that demonstrate human needs being met, other than the Poverty Index, Life Expectancy, Literacy, Income, Clean Water and Child Nutrition? PalestineTM propaganda would have the world believe that they suffer more than all others, these figures indicate that this is not the case, pure and simple.

    “Double standards are screwed up. As is leaders raising ire/fear of a common enemy in order to draw attention from their own failings.”
    Like the Arab Muslim world does daily in regard to the US and Israel and has done now for 60 years, to the detriment of their own people? While the soap opera PalestineTM screens daily around the Arab world showing the immense suffering of the Pals, Arabs are drawn away from concerns about conditions in their own countries, many of which are worse than PalestineTM.

  8. Spanish Dancer says:

    “You cannot measure whether human needs have been met simply with income, life expectancy, or literacy.”

    I disagree. If you are dirt poor, illiterate, and die from preventable disease at the age of thirty, I’m not sure how anyone could argue that your “human needs” have been met just because you may inhabit a particular patch of land. Central American borders are pretty much settled, yet the economic and HDI situation there remains in crisis. All peoples have suffered at some point throughout history for some injustice (real or perceived) perpetrated against them by another – the Palestinians, while tragic, are not exceptional in this regard.

    Abstractions are a luxury for so many people – if one has a steady income, can read (and thus educate herself), and access to basic health care, that person is doing better than many, if not most people on the planet. We have the luxury of focusing on abstract ideas, such as ideological revolutions and historical national imaginaries, precisely because all of our basic needs ARE being met. Why do you think revolutions are almost always conceived of and led by urban, educated bourgeoisie?

    I think the point of the post, and the frustration of many Egyptians, seems to be that it has been discovered that the Palestinians are not living in what sustainable development people call “extreme poverty,” as some media outlets seem to suggest, while Egyptians themselves are actually lower on the human development index yet still being told they must sacrifice something for Gazans. This is a point that should be well taken. This doesn’t mean the Gazans are living in the lap of luxury of course, obviously, but shouldn’t we be equally, if not more, concerned about the Egyptian people?

  9. XYLO –
    >”Gaza is responsible for Gaza’s problems.”
    Legally, that’s not clear. At least until the border breach, Israel controlled all of Gaza’s borders, which arguably means that it was still under occupation. The laws regarding the treatment of occupied territories prohibit many of the things Israel has done, including the fuel and water cuts.

    >”and falling into factional warfare”
    I don’t recall hearing stories about factional warfare in Gaza until after funding was cut off as collective punishment against the population for electing Hamas. That being said, I do recognize that the media can be biased and my memory isn’t perfect, so if you have some solid evidence of factional warfare before the funding cut I’d love to see it.

    BROOKLYNJON
    If Hamas declared Gaza an independent state tomorrow, the way in which Israel is blockading their coastal waters would be tantamount to a declaration of war. Israel hasn’t decided to have nothing to do with Gaza, it’s actively patrolling the coastal waters and airspace, and yes, that is a siege, and it makes Gaza an occupied territory towards which Israel has legal responsibilities.

    HABIBI
    >”What other measures would you include that demonstrate human needs being met, other than the Poverty Index, Life Expectancy, Literacy, Income, Clean Water and Child Nutrition?”
    I would use those measure and *also* include something about whether the right to self-determination is being met. How you weight each of the variables is a matter for open debate. I’m not saying the Palestinians are worse off than other people, but I am saying that the fact that there are millions of Egyptians without enough to eat doesn’t change the fact that Gazans shouldn’t die because they aren’t allowed out of the country for medical care.

    >”Like the Arab Muslim world does daily in regard to the US and Israel and has done now for 60 years, to the detriment of their own people?”
    Um, yes, that was exactly the point of the sentence to which you responded. Did you read the second part where I said that the fact that the Arab Muslim leaders does so doesn’t change the fact that they might be right when they say the Palestinians would be better off with their own state?

    SPANISH DANCER
    >”If you are dirt poor, illiterate, and die from preventable disease at the age of thirty, I’m not sure how anyone could argue that your “human needs” have been met just because you may inhabit a particular patch of land.”
    Very true. I’m not saying other peoples’ needs *are* being met, just that there’s more to whether the Palestinians’ needs are being met than the measures cited.

    >”Abstractions are a luxury for so many people .”
    Also true. But I would argue that who controls the border is more than an abstraction – it prevents people from accessing life-saving medical care (http://www.irinnews.org/Report.aspx?ReportId=75693).

    >”it has been discovered that the Palestinians are not living in what sustainable development people call “extreme poverty,” as some media outlets seem to suggest, while Egyptians themselves are actually lower on the human development index yet still being told they must sacrifice something for Gazans.”
    All of the statistics in the original post are from 2004. So calls for Egyptians to sacrifice something for the Gazans *then* were problematic. But I’d be pleasantly shocked to find that any of those measures haven’t declines considerably in the past year (perhaps still not to the level of Egypt, I don’t know, but that’s just the point – with just measures from 2004 we *can’t* know).

  10. XYLO -
    Sorry, that should read fuel and electricity cuts, not water (yet).

  11. brooklynjon says:

    Rachel,

    If Gaza declared an independent state tomorrow, the next missile to hit Sderot would be an act of war.

    Boats patroling in international waters, on the other hand, is not.

  12. Rachel
    Israel receives hundreds of rocket attacks a month despite controlling Gaza’s borders. This would increase if Hamas controlled them and the sui-murder attacks would resume, as witnessed earlier in the week. When the Gazans democratically elected government stops the attacks, maybe control can be gradually handed over to them. To lower your defenses when being attacked is an unreasonable thing to ask.
    Over 80% of Gazans received medical attention abroad in the latter half of 2007.

    Gaza Strip Humanitarian Fact Sheet
    United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs
    Dec 2007

    “17.5% of patients who have requested access to East Jerusalem, Israel or abroad for emergency or chronic medical treatment have been denied permits since June 2007.”

  13. “Um, yes, that was exactly the point of the sentence to which you responded. Did you read the second part where I said that the fact that the Arab Muslim leaders does so doesn’t change the fact that they might be right when they say the Palestinians would be better off with their own state?”

    Rachel
    The Arab Muslim leaders (that doesn’t sound right), would love the Pals to have their own state. The problem is, like it was 60 years ago, it can’t border Israel.

  14. BROOKLYNJON:
    I agree that Hamas firing rockets at the western Negev is also tantamount to a declaration of war. My point is that since Israel and Gaza are at war, and Israel (until the border breach) had cut off every formal connection between Gaza and the outside world, Israel is occupying Gaza. There are legal requirements when one country occupies another in times of war, and Israel is violating those requirements.
    Incidentally, the smugglers’ tunnels that, until the border breach, were the primary exception to Israeli control of Gaza’s borders, don’t contradict Gaza’s status as occupied because they aren’t available to the majority of civilians. On the other hand, they do exist, and because of them, the price of guns actually went down during Israel’s siege. Even if you ignore the illegality of Israel’s strategy in Gaza, and even if you accept that imposing restrictions that piss people of by exponentially increasing the price for supplies such as powdered milk is a good way to hasten regime change, I don’t think that Israel wants the type of extremely violent regime change that’s likely to be fostered by decreased prices for guns.

    HABIBI:
    >”When the Gazans democratically elected government stops the attacks, maybe control can be gradually handed over to them.”
    I don’t remember seeing any media reports about Palestinian attacks on Israel from when Hamas won the majority of the PA parliament until when Israel decided to withhold Palestinian customs tax revenue from the Palestinians. Again, the media can be biased and my memory isn’t perfect, so if you have some solid evidence to the contrary, feel free to share it.

    >”To lower your defenses when being attacked is an unreasonable thing to ask.”
    I recognize that Israel and Gaza are at war and I’m not asking for Israel to lower its defenses. I am asking that it follows international law in regards to how it treats the civilian residents of the territories it’s occupying in that war.

    >”Over 80% of Gazans received medical attention abroad in the latter half of 2007.”
    Never mind the ones who died because they were too sick to travel by the time the permits came through.

  15. brooklynjon says:

    Rachel,

    A sealed border does not equal blockade, and blockade does not equal occupation. You are conflating the terms. Any landlocked country that pisses its neighbors off enough can get its borders sealed, and then its up the creek. That’s all the more reason to refrain from pissing off your neighbors, but I guess HAMAS hadn’t thought of that. And besides, Gaza isn’t landlocked!

    And I agree that the tunnels do not change things, other than being a serious breach of Egypt’s sovereignty.

    Not directly related to this, I believe that the “legislation of law” that we have seen in the past century or so, have done much to make war more possible, and more likely. If war were able to be as brutal and ugly as it ought, people would try harder to avoid it.

  16. brooklynjon says:

    “I don’t remember seeing any media reports about Palestinian attacks on Israel from when Hamas won the majority of the PA parliament until when Israel decided to withhold Palestinian customs tax revenue from the Palestinians. Again, the media can be biased and my memory isn’t perfect, so if you have some solid evidence to the contrary, feel free to share it.”

    http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/9410.htm

    Why does the world love economic sanctions, except when America or Israel do it? Gaza has been firing missiles at Israel since two weeks after Israel pulled out of Gaza, but even if they just did it as a response to economic sanctions, is this an appropriate response? I think if Israel fired spitballs and missed, it would still somehow be a violation of “international law”.