The right is scared of Obama!
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Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter are trying to recover from the voters’ rebuke. Republican voters have rejected the further Right candidates in favor of centrism. He’s advised a few things that voters have repudiated in large numbers. Further, the Obama campaign is fueled by widespread disgust over the nastiness in commentary from both extremes.
So, he is trying to be relevant.
I would hardly consider Rush Limbaugh to be representative of the average conservative. He appeals to a very small demographic in my opinion, same goes for Coulter and her big mouth.
Something keeps Rush on the air for the twenty years I’ve been listening. While driving the taxi I could always listen, but other jobs made it difficult. Now, I’m retired, four days a week. I go out on Wednesdays.
I heart Ann Coulter.
Valerie, tedders,
I cannot say whether your opinion of Rush is correct or not but I can see that he is being widely quoted and confronted by other side. I’d say it speaks a lot about his relevancy.
I don’t dislike Rush, on average his beliefs are in the same vein as mine, although sometimes he gets a bit out there for me. I just don’t think he has as much influence as he believes himself to have.
I do dislike Rush: both he and Ann Coulter are nasty. They both have good political sense, and they specialize in phrasing their often-valid observations in a nasty way. That’s the mechanism they use to get and keep peoples’ attention, and they both have lots of fans who love to quote them. To put it in their terms, they are the Paris Hiltons of the political world.
Valerie,
I don’t think that Rush is that nasty. Ann Coulter surely is, and many other Right wing talk show hosts are pretty bellicose,(Hannity, Levin, Savage..). I always thought Rush was more mocking. Though I suppose it is subjective.
That being said, it is pretty dumb to suggest that people vote for Hillary, because they would rather that John McCain confront her in the general instead of Obama. There is still a long way to go until November, and polls can change dramatically. Especially if you think that Obama might have been getting somewhat of a pass from the media, during the primaries. Under closer inspection Obama may not be quite the Golden boy that he is portrayed as currently.
Anyone remember when Rush was strapped with that inadequate reporting about what he said about the phoney soldier? He auctioned off the letter that harry reid sent to Rush’s employer in an effort to have him fired or at least censured. (sent home for a few days) He auctioned off the letter and collected, it was either four or forty million dollars, half of that his own money. Gave it to a charity for the Marines, a favorite charity he’s been involved with since the early 90s. Must be a few people listening on those four-hundred fifty stations he’s on. I know, we’re all ditto heads and Rushbots.
Rush Limbaugh is more influential when Republicans are out of power. At least, he was in the 1990s when Bill Clinton was President.
I hate Hillary with a passion. If she wins, I will vote for McCain. But here’s to hoping that Obama takes it all…
“I hate Hillary with a passion. If she wins, I will vote for McCain. But here’s to hoping that Obama takes it all…”
You had mr rootin for you till the last sentence Patrick!!! : )
…Still pining for Rudy…
“…Still pining for Rudy…”
Oh, well … Let’s hope for running mate and eventual win in November.
Looks like Hillary won Rhode Island, Ohio, and is right now looking the favorite in Texas. Obama won Vermont overwhelmingly though. I still think Obama will have a delegate lead after this, but this is definitely going to change the tone of press coverage. Probably give Hillary the big Mo. I think Pennsylvania is going to be the next important step for the Dems. If this comes down to the superdelegates for the Dems it is not going to going be good for party unity in the general.
McCain finally locked up the Republican’s nomination.
Here is to hoping they reanimate the corpse of George Washington, and he leads the US to peace and prosperity. Don’t worry about the twenty-second amendment. I am pretty sure that as a reanimated corpse George Washington would be a member of the undead and thus not technically a person.
Count on the Republicans to act as spoilers in Obama’s campaign, let alone the kind of dirty tactics that would involve bringing up the records of Obama for the sake of winning favor, especially with regards to one of his correspondents taking a little side trip over to a Canadian official and ruining the streak. Despite denials of racism, it’s still too easy to see the kind of outward bigotism to have a biracial President–looks like we’ll see yet another WHITE person in the WHITE house, yet again; either an old man or a woman, take your pick. Sure, people who don’t understand someone as Obama are likely to attack him, and that’s what they certainly did when they were afraid of what he had to offer–so, how does one go about beating him? Easy. Washington-as-usual smear tactics and controversy. And they say Obama has a cult? Please. Look at how effective people are in getting brainwashed by a fat guy with a big mouth who complains about everything.
Silent_Edge,
WTF are you talking about? Are you inventing arguments to fight about?
Is ‘fat guy with a big mouth’ the best you can do? And you have balls to whine here about prejudice and racism? I am sure you cannot even recognize your BS. If Obama is anything like you are I’d rather vote for Hillary. At least there is no surprise in store.
Silent_Edge, if he can’t stand the heat, he’ll have to get out of the kitchen.
“looks like we’ll see yet another WHITE person in the WHITE house, yet again”
Silent Edge, your mentality is the worst of the worst, conspiratorial and naive all wrapped up with a gooey layer of entitlement.
“Sure, people who don’t understand someone as Obama are likely to attack him, and that’s what they certainly did when they were afraid of what he had to offer–so, how does one go about beating him? Easy.”
You’re right, it will be easy, the only thing that needs to be done is to turn a single spotlight on who he is. Pure disinfecting sunlight. His speeches are a series of sound bites, hollow, meaningless. He’s the consummate politician. Change, future, hope, but there is no mention of the policies or changes he wants to make, except of course emasculate the US military, that’s the ticket!
“Look at how effective people are in getting brainwashed by a fat guy with a big mouth who complains about everything.”
I would assume you just described yourself.
Rush has maintained a #1 rating for many many years so to say that he only appeals to a small segment of the populace is very wrong. I don’t listen to him but know many who do and not all of them are far right. Ann only tries to deal with the left in the same terms they deal with the right. I’ve always thought it was so funny that this seems to go over so many liberals heads as they brand her nasty?
I wouldn’t say that he right is afraid of either candidate. This year the dems have painted themselves into a corner with neither candidate who can win the center of the country. The reason for voting for Hillary was to keep the fight going longer. The longer they rip each other apart the better for th other side. Now that Hillary is using Resco against BO it is going to be quite a nasty fight. Yesterday while waiting in the car for hubby to vote The Hillary commercails were coming fast and furious on the radio. In as long as it took him to vote (less then 10 minutes) I heard 5 Hillary commercials!
I am thrilled for Hillary! She is a strong, intelligent woman with a lot of experience and she is giving Obama a run for his money. He is going to have to come up with policies behind all of his “great” catchy little phrases. And what Rush proposed was absolutely brilliant. I don’t know about how fair it was, but if it was legal, so what. This is finally turning interesting.
Unfortunately, I can’t vote but if I could, I probably wouldn’t vote for Hillary even though she is all of the things that I said above.
BJ, did giuliani had stacked babes with him ?
“Unfortunately, I can’t vote but if I could, I probably wouldn’t vote for Hillary even though she is all of the things that I said above.”
Why?
Karen’s a Canuck! Canadian
Tedders,
I have dual citizenship. I am both an American and a Canadian. But I don’t think I can vote because I never lived in the States. Do you know otherwise? I guess I should call the U.S. consulate.
You should at least get 1/2 a vote!!! : )
I think Canucks should get a whole vote. They’re stuck with our lousy TV. And their electronics will get messed up in any EMP situation, just like ours.
So they talk funny? Big deal. They drink more beer than us, and they own more guns than us. Could they possibly be worse than Massachusetts?
Tedders,
How did you screw up the smiley face? My guess is that it is probably too close to the exclamation mark
BJ,
Trust me, you do not want us all getting a whole vote. I’ve seen some of your political ideas and Canadians tend to be quite socialist. That being said, I’d vote for McCain.
karen,
Fair enough. Could we trade you Vermont and Massachusetts for Alberta and Saskatchewan?
No, B.J. I don’t think so with the price of oil going sky high. It’s the same thing with wheat. You can keep Vermont and Massachusetts
But I don’t wanna keep Vermont and Massachusetts!
You have no choice!! They are yours. Accept it. Anyways, maybe they won’t matter in “the big picture”.
Actually, obama plans to increase the size of the military by 60,000 troops, though obviously I don’t see how in this present climate, tyhere are 60,000 additional people willing to join the armed forces
obama actually has a lot of policy initiatives that he’s put forward, they’re not part of his soundbites, but they’re just as detailed as anything clinton or mccain have put out and he shows a good understanding of them. They are on his website, some of the ones I like more are…instituting Pay-As-You-Go rules for congressional spending (really don’t know why these rules were ever removed), National Infrastructure Bank, for people who have incomes solely based off of a salary and bank interest the government will send them a pre-filled tax return that they can accept or reject, the credit card bill of rights to prevent interest being paid on fees and predatory lending, and his plans to institute a higher minimum for the mpg of car fleets sold in the US and financing alternate sources of energy. Then, he has a more moderate healthcare plan than Hillary, but healthcare isn’t a major concern for me so I don’t know too much about any of the candidates’ plans. His chief economic adviser is a brilliant, centrist, pro-trade professor from the University of CHicago named Austin Goolsbee, and he counts as informal advisers Warren Buffet and Robert World, CEO of UBS America. People who say obama has no policy initiatives are just being intellectually lazy and expecting the policies to be force-fed to them, instead of going out and seeking the information. Clinton and McCain haven’t really offered any more policies than Obama, it’s just that they’re better known than he is so their stances on various issues are already common knowledge, or at least their assumed stances, since most people expect each candidate to toe the party line on most issues (though this is less true of McCain).
Patrick,
I’m not impressed.
I have a lot of policy initiatives as well. Some of them are exquisitely detailed. And I promise, if elected, to chose advisors who are moderate, learned, and well intentioned. Yet these are all vapor.
I have no record for you to base your expectations on. Maybe I mean to enact my poliy prescriptions. Maybe I’m just saying them to get elected. You can’t look at my legislative record, because I have none. You can’t look at my record in running a state government, or a city government, or a large corporation or organization. But you have my word. Unfortunately, you can’t even assess how much I am a man of my word, because there’s no record of me being such a man.
That’s why you’d be a fool to elect me to the Presidency.
And it’s why you’d be a fool to elect Obama as well.
Of course, we’ve been foolish before. After all, we did elect Carter.
Actually, obama plans to increase the size of the military by 60,000 troops
The military should be expanded by 1 million troops, at least.
though obviously I don’t see how in this present climate, tyhere are 60,000 additional people willing to join the armed forces
Perhaps somebody should find out how Reagan did it
Look at Jimmy Carter’s post Vietnam military, and look at Ronald Reagan’s military a few years later. We’re still riding on Reagan’s military buildup from the 1980s. It’s about time for another similar resurgence of the US military. The current US military is too small, and we are losing our technological edge. Most of the equipment the US military is using is older than the troops using it.
Brooklynjon, and which of Obama’s opponents have ever run a government?
Carter and Bush were both governors and look where they got us.
Neither, but McCain has a long record to judge his intentions by. And Clinton can be judged by 1) being a Senator, realistically, for three times longer than Obama, and by her being fairly involved in policy decisions when her husband was president.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not really impressed by the extent of Clinton’s record, but there is a helluva lot more meat there than in Obama’s resume.
The fact is, Obama was hand-picked by the Democratic Party to run essentially unopposed for the Senate, and he’s been running for the Presidency ever since he’s been elected. He, simply speaking, is the Democratic Dan Quayle. He looks good. He speaks well. He can probably spell potato. And if you like a liberal politician, he may just be okay. But he may not. There’s simply no way to tell.
As far as Bush is concerned, the Bush who was a candidate was very different than the Bush who is currently hated by the left wing. Back then, he was an isolationist who was derided for his refusal to use the military for “nation building”. For this he was mocked. And now? He is derided for using the military for “nation building”. True, he had no foreign policy experience, but no governor does. But it seems, as far as the left wing is concerned, that he had it right the first time. It was only when he became experiened that he became an interventionist, no?
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_030508/content/01125107.guest.html
BJ, you could give them back to the Frenchs, aren’t those states pro-Kerry anyway ?
Hey, I’ll take Cape Cod! Nice beach front property! Well, in the summer time any way!
Karen, I’ve never had any luck with the little face icons. I think it may be because I use a MacIntosh or possibly because I use Safari. I’ve tried a few times but all I get is this:
http://www.sandmonkey.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif
So I have to resort to the old: >: ( standby!!
I use a mac too tedders and I don’t have a problem
bj,
Please don’t insult Obama by comparing him to Bush. Bush has no education period. He is good at cutting trees on his Daddy’s ranch in texas
as the bumper stickers say in Texas
“some little village in texas is missing it’s idiot”
Patrick,
I guess people are tired of those so called seasoned politicians that claims experience and when they are in power they are a mess.
bj,
You have to be a lawyer to get elected you don’t talk too much
bj,
Would you let a brain surgeon spouse operate on you?
This is how it sounds to me when you claim that Hillary has more experience than Obama.
We might as well get Laura Bush to be a candidate.
Let us do a little math Hillary claim that she has “35 years” of experience
She’s 60 now, she graduated at 25. SO everything Hillary did is experience?
I need to see her address book and calendar as a wife of a president.
“Bush has no education period. ”
An MBA from Harvard!
“We might as well get Laura Bush to be a candidate.”
You don’t know much about Laura Bush. Comparing her to H Clinton is on par with comparing Jesus to Satan.
“This is how it sounds to me when you claim that Hillary has more experience than Obama.”
Hillary, 7 years as Senator. (the 35 year figure is a typical Clintonism, it depends on what you mean by “is”!)
Obama, 3 years as Senator.
“I need to see her address book and calendar as a wife of a president.”
Yeah, I’d like to see her real Rose Law Firms billing records too!! : )
Jimmah and Koffi are here to save the day!!
http://pajamasmedia.com/xpress/claudiarosett/2008/03/05/hello_were_jimmy_carter_and_ko_1.php
Testing 1, 2, 3. Testing. http://www.sandmonkey.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif
: (
darn it! it is not working for you isnt it? hmmmm let me see. What is your browser tedders? firefox, safari, or Opera?
Safari, what’s yours.
Now firefox but usually I use Opera
Try firefox I will use safari and try myself and see it is a safari problem
safari
oops sorry tedders it is not a browser problem
Without pop up blocker http://www.sandmonkey.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif
it is the curse of the pharaoh’s
keep your computer safe and don’t mess with your pop up protection or virus protection. A smiley face is not worth it, in the mean time:-
Now you’re just mocking me!!
Couldn’t resisit
oh this Hillary experience Crap the women never had a security clearance to make any decisions in the White House while she was a first lady.
And if she did HOLY MACARONI !
Comm’on people. I have some responses to the above posts but little time but i will be back.
tedders,
I don’t know if you saw this or not but it is good
http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/#mea=224734
signing off
You did them before Tedders. I don’t think the reasons you gave are the problem. I also have a mac and use safari.
Oh well. Keep trying
Can you imagine going through life without the ability to smile?
: (
You can smile, just not in colour. You’ll have to settle for black and white then.
=: )
hmmm lets see
.
tedders your problem is you put a space between the colon and the round bracket, like this ‘: )’ there are no spaces in the smiley face expressions. Type is straight through without pressing the space bar
.
: )
ok tedders try without space LOL
Testing
OMG I”VE DONE IT!!!!!!!!!!!
Snoopy dance !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I laughed
I cried
I’m soooooo happy
I will vote for testing LOL
Mabrouk Congratulations Mazltov
tedders, mazel tov. Today you are a man. You should use smileys in the best of health bis ein hundert und tzvantzig.
Oh my Goodness you are blessed by bj until 120 like the prophet Moses
today is your day 
Great cartoon over at jesus and mo.
http://www.jesusandmo.net/
By the way, Jesus and Mo, as depicted in this cartoon, are not meant to be any religious figures in any existing religion. Any similarity between the characters in the cartoon and any prophets, messiahs, or sons of G-d is purely coincidental. I also did not create this cartoon, nor do I condone it. But I do find it pretty funny.
“are not meant to be any religious figures in any existing religion”
Jesus and Mo is not religious figures hmmm what about the crown of thorn on Jesus head it is not religious also?. purely concidental? OK you can buy that but not me.
Sorry bj this is distasteful to post but it is a free world you can post and laugh what you want.
Ignore the drawings and read the words, is all.
By the way, the cartoon also features a hell-raising individual named Moses, who I understand is also not meant to be a religious figure.
And like I said, I don’t draw the cartoon or host it. I only refer to it.
And I once wore a crown of orchids at a party. I don’t know if it had thorns per se, but it managed to be pretty prickly nonetheless.
http://www.jesusandmo.net/2005/11/24/body/
Nope not religious at all. What were you saying bj?
http://www.jesusandmo.net/2006/08/28/rods/
http://www.jesusandmo.net/2006/08/23/hell/
I’m not mad at you bj, I’m just responding to your disclaimer that is not true.
I apologize if I have offended any Muslim and Christian on this board by providing those links.
My point is limited to that one particular cartoon, and so many of the conversations we see here on this and other weblogs, in which people seem to enter into the conversation with someone of differring views with no interest in learning more about the other’s views, and only interested in “winning” the debate.
That the point happened to be made in this cartoon or that is not material as far as I’m concerned. I refered to it in a limited way. I don’t know who draws the cartoon, but I frankly couldn’t care less what his view is of religion in general, or Christianity, Islam, or Judaism in particular (at various times, they all get poked a little in the cartoon).
I don’t mean to insult or make fun of anyone or their beliefs. If you get past that, there is a certain essential truth about the human and weblogian conditions in this particular cartoon. That’s all.
Two,
Oh. When I say “are not meant”, I mean “are not meant by me”. I can have no idea what the artist meant, as I am not the artist, neither do I know the artist.
Like you, meaning no offense in posting the links, I also mean no offense. That’s my point.
From the same site. I liked it, maybe you will to.
Thermodynamics Of Hell
A thermodynamics professor had written a take home exam for his graduate students. It had one question:
“Is hell exothermic or endothermic? Support your answer with a proof.”
Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle’s Law or some variant. One student, however wrote the following:
First, we postulate that if souls exist, then they must have some mass. If they do, then a mole of souls can also have a mass. So, at what rate are souls moving into hell and at what rate are souls leaving? I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving.
As for souls entering hell, lets look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Some of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to hell. Since, there are more than one of these religions and people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all people and all souls go to hell.
With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in hell to increase exponentially.
Now, we look at the rate of change in volume in hell. Boyle’s Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in hell to stay the same, the ratio of the mass of souls and volume needs to stay constant.
So, if hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter hell, then the temperature and pressure in hell will increase until all hell breaks loose.
Of course, if hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in hell, than the temperature and pressure will drop until hell freezes over.
It was not revealed what grade the student got.
brooklynjon,
A mature doctor like you should have considered Sandmonkey’s safety by posting this on a blog owned by a Muslim living in Egypt. Many dumb crap wackos might be watching. You are disconnected from the Middle East culture and religious craziness happening there.
I’m not a Hillary fan, she’s a bit irritating… but
a) Limbaugh is apathetic to the whole thing… he doesn’t like Hillary, wouldn’t want a Dem president, and is apathetic to McCain reping the Rep party.
b) Oreilly said exit polls about 7% Republicans in Texas voted in the Dem primary but Obama got most of those votes.
c) Hillary didn’t even dominate the Latino vote though she won it.
d) Most late deciders went almost 2-1 for Hillary in Texas.
e) Limbaugh isn’t necessarily afraid of Obama and the idea he’d try to help the Clintons even if he was is hard to fathom…. he just wants the Dem race to go on and on and on… for them to bloody each other as they now appear to be doing and to waste their money in close primary and split the party at a contentious Convention. However, he’s wrong I think… I think both candidates will get stronger, get more publicity, energize their base, refine their skills, find more money donors and thus, be tougher candidates as a result in a general election.
Samer,
“You are disconnected from the Middle East culture and religious craziness happening there.”
That’s true. I live in a community that is mixed Muslim-Christian-Muslim. We all generally look for reasons not to be offended by one another. It honestly surprises me when people are not that way. My bad.
Oops… Make that “Muslim-Christian-Jewish”
Mohammed cartoons have been linked to by people commenting here before and Sandmonkey is still around. In fact the S.M. himself has posted numerous things here previously that many “wackos” would find objectionable for sure.
Oh, and I am sure that B.J. is well aware of the craziness that is the Middle East.
And don’t you mean happening here instead of happening there?
karen,
Sure I’m aware. But … how shall I say this … I lack a certain intuition about what will rankle folks there. In part because the same people, transplanted to New York, don’t get offended by the same things. Or perhaps they do get offended, but they don’t express it. Or maybe it’s because, while Jews can certainly get offended by things, this sort of thing is just not going to do it. So maybe it’s just a different cultural frame of reference.
But again, I was trying to make a very limited point about debating, which – had there been a similar cartoon using sports figures or movie stars – would have been just as well. My point was unrelated to the crudely drawn characters, and had nothing to do with religion. Really.
there as in Egypt I live in Kuwait, I wasn’t trying to be nasty to anyone. I was stating the obvious, I didn’t know there are other topics here about the cartoon, I am fairly new.
Anymore questions teacher? or you are going to mess with me even in recess time? May I be dismissed?
Slime ball
No problem Brooklynjon. I misworded the post and wasn’t trying to have a shot at you. I just got bothered by slime balls who are trying to still mess with me.
Samer,
I didn’t think you were being nasty.
At least not until you called me a slime ball. Or were you calling karen a slime ball? I’m a little confused here. Sigh.
Samer,
Oops… our posts crossed. Peace.
B.J.
I am surprised that you lack that intuition. Now you know
Sam er,
I am not going to mix it up with you. Get a life
karen,
Actually, I’m surprised too. But I just checked my pants and it turns out that I’m a guy, so maybe that has someting to do with it.
Funny stuff, B.J. Anyways, got to go. My crazy busy time starts soon.
p.s. to Samer. I didn’t say he posted about the cartoons. Others have linked to them. But S.M. often posts about topics that would be considered controversial to some people or the wackos as you put it.
Few seconds ago you said you won’t mix with me and I need a life didn’t you? but yet a second later your crazy self couldn’t take it. Does it itch you not to slip some nastiness. You get a life slime ball, you are the one who started to mix up with me.
Didn’t you have enough with all the fights on other threads? don’t you have enough of animosity and shiftiness. Is that how you survive your day to day life?
I’m sure that you and Craig are either best friends or the same one. Too much in common.
Samer,
Good thinking but I wouldn’t worry about it. I got the key to the blog
I got him covered.
(rolling my eyes!)
****Rolling Eyes Too****
You obviously didn’t get what I said. So I explained it again. There won’t be a next time, don’t worry!!
OT,
Egypt and Israel cooperating!
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3515998,00.html
Twosret @ 59,
This link to SNL is very funny. But comments are even funnier.
“Egypt and Israel cooperating!”
That is a great development!!
bj,
In response to your comment about the fools who vote for Obama. I think I disagree with you.
Here is what Hillary Clinton said at the Q&A briefing:-
“I don’t talk about the conversations that I had with my husband in the White House, but obviously I was there for a lot of phone calls at different times of the day and night, and I have a very clear idea of what it takes to be prepared and ready to not only to answer the phone but then to make the decisions that are required depending on what the crisis is.”.
Here is what Senator Bill Bradley said:
“I think Barack Obama has a much stronger chance of beating John McCain in the general election. I think Hillary is flawed in many ways, and particularly if you look at her husband’s unwillingness to release the names of the people who contributed to his presidential library.
And the reason that is important — you know, are there favors attached to $500,000 or $1 million contributions? And what do I mean by favors? I mean, pardons that are granted; investigations that are squelched; contracts that are awarded; regulations that are delayed.
These are important questions. The people deserve to know. And we deserve, as Democrats, to know before a nominee is selected, because we don’t want things to explode in a general election against John McCain.”
I would like to add to the senator comment:-
1- We need your income tax return
2- We need your daily schedule as a First lady in the White house
In my opinion if anyone calls an Obama voter a fool should look deeply into Hillary Clinton before he makes such claims.
When Hillary was put in charge of anything she never delivered and she was down the gutter by the Republican majority.
Hillary wanted to cancel her air time with Fox news due to them insulting her daughter Chelsea, but she is buttering up McCain on three different occasions when he laughed when one of his supporters called her a “bitch” and often jokes how ugly he thinks Chelsea Clinton is ugly. LOVELY!
Hillary’s gutter politics extends to the point that she betrays the Democratic Party by praising the opponent with greater credentials than she has to the Democratic frontrunner.
Hillary will not play by the rules established and agreed to by the Democratic Party. Hillary now claims she “will not accept” a do-over in Florida. She wouldn’t accept the will of the Democratic voters and seeks an independent alternative.
Hillary on the other hand wants to convince us that all those years of Bill Clinton presidency she was the vice president not Al Gore never mind she doesn’t care to take away from Bill Clinton legacy as a president.
Hillary does have experience in fighting lawsuits against her husband and herself. She is the first First lady to be crimminally investigated.
And in case of anyone forget if she was really by her husband side, how did she not notice Monica? If anyone spent the longest time it is Monica not you Hillary?
And in case she really wants to take credit for her years in office she might as well explain to us the following allegations from this site and many other sites that is a public record as per the author:-
http://www.therant.us/staff/swirsky/03132006.htm
Most number of convictions and guilty pleas by friends and associates.
▪ Most number of cabinet officials to come under criminal investigation.
▪ Most number of witnesses to flee country or refuse to testify.
▪ Most number of witnesses to die suddenly.
▪ First president sued for sexual harassment.
▪ First president accused of rape.
▪ First president to be held in contempt of court.
▪ First president to be impeached for personal malfeasance.
▪ First first lady to come under criminal investigation.
▪ Largest criminal plea agreement in an illegal campaign-contribution case.
▪ Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions.
▪ Number of Starr-Ray investigation convictions or guilty pleas to date: one governor, one associate attorney general and two Clinton business partners: 14.
▪ Number of Cabinet members who came under criminal investigation: 5.
▪ Number of individuals and businesses associated with the Clinton machine that were convicted of or pleaded guilty to crimes: 47.
▪ Number of these convictions during Clinton’s presidency: 33.
▪ Number of indictments/misdemeanor charges: 61.
▪ Number of congressional witnesses who pleaded the Fifth Amendment, fled the country to avoid testifying, or (in the case of foreign witnesses) refused to be interviewed: 122.
▪ Guilty pleas and convictions obtained by Donald Smaltz in cases involving charges of bribery and fraud against former Agriculture Secretary Mike Espy and associated individuals and businesses: 15; acquitted or overturned cases (including Espy): 6.
▪ Clinton machine crimes for which convictions were obtained: drug trafficking, 3; racketeering, extortion, bribery, 4; tax evasion, kickbacks, embezzlement, 2; fraud, 12; conspiracy, 5; fraudulent loans, illegal gifts, 1; illegal campaign contributions, 5; money laundering, 6; perjury, et al.
▪ Number of times that Clinton figures who testified in court or before Congress said that they didn’t remember, didn’t know, or something similar: Bill Kennedy, 116; Harold Ickes, 148; Ricki Seidman, 160; Bruce Lindsey, 161; Bill Burton, 191; Mark Gearan, 221; Mack McLarty, 233; Neil Egglseston, 250; John Podesta, 264; Jennifer O’Connor, 343; Dwight Holton 348; Patsy Thomasson, 420; Jeff Eller, 697; and Hillary Clinton, 250.
Now the last question
America is the land of the free and democracy right? and there is no racisim in this country at all as per the earlier commentators here on this thread. Why does Obama have to prove to the world that he is not Muslim? Why is the question raised in the first place?
Why did they try to smear Obama by saying that only the African-Americans in the south are giving him a push?
Why color at 2008 in the United States of America is still an issue?
Good night.
And tedders before I go. You can buy your degree with a low average from Yale and get an MBA from Harvard but if you don’t know that Africa is not a country then you don’t qualify as the President of the United States of America.
And don’t let me pull on him all the quotes and Jokes let us leave it for another thread.
Two,
Listen, I don’t think Hillary is an especially strong candidate either. She has a lot of baggage, and a paucity of definitive experience. She has been pretty much a zero as a senator, and not a whole lot of her experience before that would reassure me that she was ready for the presidency. I think the Democratic party could have done a lot better, just as they could have in ’04. Then again, if the convention comes with no one having an absolute majority, we may be looking at a Democratic Party nominee who is neither Hillary nor Obama.
But, in any event, the fact remains that Obama has not actually done anything in politics other than serve four terms as a state senator. The time he has spent nominally being the junior Senator from Illinois but actually being a candidate for president don’t count for much. And that flimsy record, besides the “experience” issue, doesn’t provide much of a history in terms of taking political stands that mean something. I mean, Marty Markowitz is more qualified than Obama, and you’ve never heard of him, and for good reason.
Listen, I don’t think Hillary is an especially strong candidate either. She has a lot of baggage, and a paucity of definitive experience. She has been pretty much a zero as a senator, and not a whole lot of her experience before that would reassure me that she was ready for the presidency.
I’m not a big fan of hers.. she speaks robotic and is irritating and mechanical..
However, her and Bill being slammed in the first 2 years of his Presidency counts as experience. She learned quick that you don’t dictate anything to people in Washington DC like Universale Health Care.
As a Senator I think she has some solid experience. She served on the Armed Services Committee and was in from 2000 on where A LOT has happened since. Senators from both sides have actually commented that she’s moderated and worked well with people in the Senate and she is definitely highly intelligent on issues.
I think the Democratic party could have done a lot better, just as they could have in ‘04. Then again, if the convention comes with no one having an absolute majority, we may be looking at a Democratic Party nominee who is neither Hillary nor Obama.
Who the extremly fake John Edwards and his hair?
It will be her or Obama and most likely him. Unless they revote Michigan and Florida and she strongly carries both.. Then you got a serious convention fight on your hands. But either way nobody else gets the nomination.
But, in any event, the fact remains that Obama has not actually done anything in politics other than serve four terms as a state senator.
I thought he actually served 2 2 year terms?
The time he has spent nominally being the junior Senator from Illinois but actually being a candidate for president don’t count for much. And that flimsy record, besides the “experience” issue, doesn’t provide much of a history in terms of taking political stands that mean something. I mean, Marty Markowitz is more qualified than Obama, and you’ve never heard of him, and for good reason.
I don’t know who the h that is… but yeah he’s got no real political experience which is a plus if you want to run for President bcs then you don’t have actual votes people can point to… Like for instance when he tries to pretend he’s against NAFTA and criticize Hillary for being for it… and then secretly tells the Canadian gov’t he’s just posturing to the electorate for the election.
Heeeeeere’s Marty!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marty_Markowitz
He’s got a helluva lot more experience in office than Obama.
He’s got a catchy name.
He has a proven record of arranging concerts in public parks.
Obama has served in the Illinois state senate for eight years. And yes, he has not taken any stands that he has to defend now. NAFTA, as you note, is a perfect example.
Florida and Michigan notwithstanding, there are plenty of delegates to be determined. It’s unclear who will win at this point, or if there will be a winner on the first ballot. If they fail to select a nominee on the first ballot, then delegates are able to vote for whoever they want, and there’s no telling who they vote for. Calling Al Gore?
“I thought he actually served 2 2 year terms?”
He hasn’t done much in the second term except make a run for the Presidency. I’ll give him credit for 1 and a 1/3 two year terms.
“no real political experience which is a plus if you want to run for President”
Say what? Only if your trying to deceive and fool people into voting for someone who’s real agenda won’t get them elected. I’m not making a comparison between the two but that’s how Hitler got elected! A bunch of lovely sound bites but no real history to judge his real intentions.
“tells the Canadian gov’t he’s just posturing to the electorate for the election.”
I’m amazed you can say this with a straight face and then think he’s a valid choice for President, he has no policy so he makes up an untruth to fool people into voting for him. Sounds exactly like Berlin, Germany in the early thirties. We had 8 years of lying, misleading, skirting the law under Bill Clinton. Hezbollah and Hamas both are counting on an Obama victory so they can sit and watch him dismantle the US military, Hillary wouldn’t be much better. Neither Hillary or Obama are qualified to be CIC by any fathom of the imagination.
tedders,
Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t Mein Kampf published before Hitler was elected? IIRC, the Germans elected Hitler knowing full well what he said he’d do, but not believing that he’d really do it.
Obie was elected to his first term in the Senate in November ’04, taking the oath of office in ’05. He’s midway through his first six year term, essentially all of which has been spent running for president.
Realistically, his basis for running is 8 years as an Illinois State Senator and a good speech at the 2004 Democratic National Convention.
“no real political experience which is a plus if you want to run for President”
This is true with the emphasis on “if you want to RUN FOR president, not to actally BE the president.” With fewer times he had to actually take a stand he has fewer verifiable opinions. People are then free to ascribe to him their own opinions, with nothing to refute that belief. He is a mirror. Each person sees in him what they are.
For that matter, black people see in him a black (even though his mother is white). White people see someone who sounds white and isn’t so very dark (hence the upset over photos that make him appear darker than he is). Christians see a Christian (hence the furor over stating his middle name – we mustn’t destroy the illusion). It’s not clear to me what Muslims think about him. And Jews, for the most part, are so liberal that they will vote for a mayonnaise jar if it appears on the Democratic ticket before voting for a moderate Republican (his willing association with someone who glorifies Louis Farrakhan won’t hurt him, because liberals classically don’t take their own side in a fight).
The demographic aspects of his mirror-ness are a part of him. But the ideological aspects shatter once he has to take positions that people don’t agree with. He’s a far stronger candidate with no experience than he’ll likely be in a decade or two.
“I’m amazed you can say this with a straight face and then think he’s a valid choice for President”
He IS a valid choice (i.e. meets constitutional requirements). Just not a wise one. I don’t think Mike N. would disagree with you. Mike?
For the love of God, Clinton accuse Barack Obama for something she has done herself.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080305.wharpleak0305/BNStory/National/home
I may have misspoken (actually, miswritten). Obama was elected to the Illinois senate three times: 1996, 1998, and 2002. He either served six or eight years in the Illinois State Senate, depending on whether the terms are two or four years. I imagine he spent much of his last term running for senate, though, just as he’s been an absentee US senator.
So he may actually have even less experience than I thought.
tedders,
I’m amazed how you can say this with straight face myself.
“Sounds exactly like Berlin, Germany in the early thirties. We had 8 years of lying, misleading, skirting the law under Bill Clinton. Hezbollah and Hamas both are counting on an Obama victory so they can sit and watch him dismantle the US military, Hillary wouldn’t be much better. Neither Hillary or Obama are qualified to be CIC by any fathom of the imagination.”
You are on the fear tactics campaign, didn’t we have enough of that? We had much worse 8 years with Bush than Clinton.
” wasn’t Mein Kampf published before Hitler was elected?”
Yes, it was. The first volume is a semi autobiography of Hitler and a nationalistic view German history, reasons for WWl, why the Second Reich failed and such. The second volume expressed his weltanschauung, organization, right to self defence, blah blah blah. He never said in his book that he would attempt to eliminate the Jewish race in Europe, try to take over the world or start a world war that would consume over 60 million souls, devastate Europe and deal Germany a blow it may never overcome. Of course with hindsight on can go back and see the kernels of ignorance in Mein Kampf and the history of what followed. I think it’s hard to understand, today, after reading the goobledygook of a book that anyone could vote for him but after WWl the German people went through WWl, the travesty of the Treaty of Versailles, hyper inflation, communist take over aspirations and the like. In that atmosphere Mein Kampf was, although radical, just what a portion of the German nation wanted to hear, I don’t think anyone thought what ended up happening really would have. On a side note Hitler was said to be embarrassed he had ever written it later on in his career. Some higher up NAZI officials privately called it unreadable garbage, which it was. As far as I understand it, although millions of copies were published, very few people read it, Just like Obama’s book!……… I’m sorry that was a cheap shot.
“He’s midway through his first six year term, essentially all of which has been spent running for president.”
My bad, I suppose it’s State senators that have 2 year terms? So he hasn’t even complete one single term as a Senator in Washington! Even worse than I had imagined!
“It’s not clear to me what Muslims think about him.
One word, ” Takeyya “.
“He is a mirror. Each person sees in him what they are.”
A very scary thought in my opinion.
“And Jews, for the most part, are so liberal that they will vote for a mayonnaise jar if it appears on the Democratic ticket ”
When is your HBO comedy special airing!!!
“We had much worse 8 years with Bush than Clinton.”
Not in my humble opinion, of course I don’t let Network news commentators tell me how to view the world.
Tedders, take your meds man.
Susan,
“Sounds exactly like Berlin, Germany in the early thirties.”
What I meant by that was that Obama supporters are willing to give the worlds most powerful position to a man with no resume, so to speak. The same thing happened in Berlin in the early thirties. I thought I made it clear I wasn’t comparing Adolf to Obama directly.
” I’m not making a comparison between the two but that’s how Hitler got elected. A bunch of lovely sound bites but no real history to judge his real intentions.” is what I prefaced the statement with.
Have you ever listened to on of Obama’s speeches? He talks in circles and all the journalists squeal in delight but the is NO substance there. He talks of change and future and battles that need to be fought, rivers that need to be crossed, burdens to shoulder….. ad nauseum. I believe the POUS should have the courage and integrity of the highest standards available. Bill Clinton nor Obama possess those qualities in my opinion.
“Tedders, take your meds man.”
Pure clean air!
Oh, and a wonderful cup of cafe du monde!
Twosret, are you implying Americans don’t have a right to know the religious beliefs of a candidate for President of the United States? Are you even serious?
Tedders,
Hezbollah and Hamas both are counting on an Obama victory so they can sit and watch him dismantle the US military, Hillary wouldn’t be much better.
I don’t know about you, but when it comes to the “war on terror” I don’t think it much matters who gets elected. I gave up on political solutions in the ME a couple years ago. I want US troops out of Iraq, and I want to get the war with Iran over with so we can all move on with our lives. Bush should have dealt with Iran in the first place, instead of Iraq, in my opinion. I support Obama’s plans for withdrawing US troops from Iraq by the end of 2009. If Iraq is still hopelessly fucked up by then, so be it. The war with Iran is coming, and we need to get ready for it. It’s at least 3 years overdue. And that just may be the one thing that can save Iraq, too. But hopefully the next President (whoever it is) will have the good sense to just destroy Iran’s military and take out the nuclear cites, and not go anywhere near major cities. In and out. Let the Iranians do their own regime change. Or not. There’s more than one way to skin a cat
Clinton and McCain will get that done. I’m not sure Obama has the stomach for it, but hopefully he does.
Craig,
Those are some stark realities that are hard to argue with. All we can do is vote our conscience and see how it pans out. Obama scares the shit out of me, I never thought in a million years I would see a worse Presidential candidate than another Clinton but it appears I’ve been proven wrong!
No Craig they have every right to know but for a candidate to use it against the other is what I think is not fair. An athiest runner for presidency should taunt a his Christian opponent.
Thanks for asking and not yelling at me.
I need more coffee too tedders to read all replies
how are your icons doing this morning 
I see that they are working for you.
*should not taunt his Christian opponent*
just fine thanks!
The elections will be a mud wrestling event. Fucking dirty.
“The elections will be a mud wrestling event.”
Dem on Dem it looks like.
I think this is just what Rush had in mind!
It will be worse when it is Dem on Republican.
“It will be worse when it is Dem on Republican.”
You’re probably right about that!
Craig @ 121,
I hope war with Iran will not be necessary:
http://kamangir.net/2008/03/05/video-of-the-day-unrest-in-shiraz-university/
Deja vu? 1979 in reverse? Let’s just wait and see. We can always bomb bomb bomb Iran later.
leo,
That’s the thing with Iran. Like all tyrranies, it will eventually topple under its own weight. The problem is, if it topples after they develop a nuclear arsenal, we could be looking at some glowing cities in various parts of the world. But if we openly attack, the public will rally around the tyrants. It’s like a Chinese finger trap.
Craig,
Post 121 is a pretty good summation. I agree that Iran was a more pressing issue than Iraq. I also felt that North Korea was more pressing than Iran, and Saudi Arabia more pressing then all of them. Of course, the country that needed regime change most of all was France, but it looks like the Frenchies took care of that all by themselves.
Maybe this sounds nostalgic but I want to see a president who will pay our debts first, educate our children for free, take care of our medical care, and social security before lending the whole world billions of $.
You can attack me for the thought, I think I live in La La land myself
or a selfish moment 
Bring it on
bj,
How long does it take for a tyranny to collapse in the Middle East? A life time? How long has Mubarak been a president? I am pointing at him as an example not to limit tyranny to the Arab countries.
As for “experience” of a candidate for running for presidency, I confirmed with tedders, that Regean didn’t have office appointments before running to be a president. His experience was nothing compared to Obama.
I can dig into past presidents “experience” but my opinion is, nothing prepares you for that post no matter what you do.
Bella Twosret,
I admire your passion for politics. You can call me an “immigrant” if you wish in comparison to your spirit. Your avidity has to be respected. Hillary should be thrown out of the Democratic party for what she did in the past two weeks.
” Of course, the country that needed regime change most of all was France, but it looks like the Frenchies took care of that all by themselves.”
Oh I can’t wait to hear what Nomad says about that!! Of course you’re correct!!
“Regean didn’t have office appointments before running to be a president.”
He ran the worlds 8th largest economy, California, for eight years before he ran for POUS.
Obama has run nothing, except his mouth.
“He ran the worlds 8th largest economy, California, for eight years before he ran for POUS.”
so following your logic Arnold Schwarzenegger will be ready to be president in few years Ha!
Stop being Obamaphobic
now that you figured out your smilies you will mess with me 
Andrew,
I am trying to figure out my way in the dangerous world of politics
“so following your logic Arnold Schwarzenegger will be ready to be president in few years Ha!”
I like Arnie!! I think he’d make a fine POUS much better than a less than one term Senator but you have that darn born citizen clause!!
You’re the one that helped me with my smiles Twos, you not regretting that are you?
We don’t want old men with a first lady that look like a Barbie doll
I wish we we had more choices.
Sigh
well, I am not sure that Sarko is doing a better work than Chirac, the only thing he does better is polishing US shoes, that Chirac couldn’t do, question of witted education that the elders had , when a Sarko seems to adopt the surburb language, in the sense of the “hair” of course
as far as the first threat to our western world I would have put Saudi Arabia first ; it ‘s her that finances the terrorism since ages, it’s her that promotes hate with the retarded imans that she send all over the world ;
Iran has become a threat since the US removed the Shah, why ? because of his secret police activity ? to put a religious bigot in place
AQ, a Saudi creation too
I still didn’t get a glass of kasher wine
joke apart, Sarko isn’t doing much, cause he has not more ways and or means, the real power doesn’t belong to a nation anymore, anyone globalisation ? and the legislatif power is in Bruxelles , so he is occupying the medias, with his private life, with his vocabulary extravagances…
what he does for “the war against the terrorism”, Chirac started it , already after11/9, in sharing the renseignements in a Paris office with the US, in sending soldiers in Afghanistan in 2003, where there were avered training camps for AQ members, but not in Irak, wich was a laïc state, yes with a dictator ; there were many other countries with dictators, that didn’t disturb the penthagonale scenarists
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKsoXHYICqU&feature=related
Poor Michele Obama
I’m not entirely sure that there are many jobs that prepare you to be el Presidente. But if there is one, Governor of California has got to be it.
But the bigger issue as I see it, is having a record that people can look at to see how you will govern. Lacking that, one can say anything.
As James Baker (great guy) said, “There is no such thing as executive experience outside the office itself.” Which is why I’m so bothered when candidates argue they are more experienced to be president or are more ready to be president because of their years in various positions.
Being a senator should give a you a good understanding of national and international issues, but you never run anything.
Governors are good managers but don’t have a good understanding of issues of wider concern like national and international issues.
These are not rules but are generally the case, interestingly, America hasn’t elected a Senator president since 1960, which I think might be the most interesting development out of this election. (LBJ was a senator but also a VP prior to serving as president).
I honestly agree with Obama that leadership skills like judgment, an ability to work well with others (even those you disagree with) vision, charisma, and intelligence are more important factors in determining a president than years of experience accrued. There is no correlation between a longer time spent in office and presidential performance.
Also, a president’s job isn’t to be policy-maker in chief. Most presidents don’t go through with most of their policies, or if they do, said policies are compromised to a point of palatability to most sides. Most policy coming out of the White House is totally developed by advisers and officials and most spending bills and other important pieces of legislation are totally Congress’s doing. A president is honestly a figurehead more than anything else.
bj,
8 years in office with experience on the job and ?
Lowest home equity since 1945
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080306/ap_on_bi_ge/home_equity
Record Jobs cuts
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080307/bs_nm/usa_economy_jobs_dc
And a costly war
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/17/business/17leonhardt.html
Good enough reasons to know that BUSH BITES
http://www.525reasons.com/
“On his last day in office, President Clinton granted 140 pardons and 36 commutations, many of them controversial. The documents released include dozens of letters Clinton and his advisers received in the months before he left office advocating pardons for Rich and others.
Rich had fled the country after being indicted for tax evasion. His ex-wife, Denise Rich, had contributed $450,000 to the Clinton library and more than $1.1 million to the Democratic Party.
In a Dec. 6, 2000, letter, Denise Rich pleaded with Clinton — “as a friend and admirer” — to pardon her ex-husband.
“You have the power in this matter not just to show mercy, but to do justice. I believe with all my heart that this is the right thing to do,” she wrote.
Another advocate of Rich’s pardon, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, who at the time was mayor of Jerusalem, wrote Clinton on Nov. 27, 2000, praising Rich’s contributions to various causes in Jerusalem.
“Any wrongdoing, if any, has been largely surpassed by his voluntary contributions to society as a whole, and I believe that he will continue to devote his philanthropic generosity to the welfare of the needy in the United States as well,” Olmert wrote.
The released documents also include letters the White House received regarding Rich’s partner Pincus Green, who was also granted a pardon by Clinton.
The documents were released in response to a Freedom of Information Act request filed by USA Today in January 2006, when the library first began accepting such requests. Hillary Clinton has been criticized by her Democratic presidential rival Barack Obama and by Republicans over the number of documents not released by her husband’s library.”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080308/ap_on_el_pr/clinton_library_pardons_3;_ylt=A9G_Rmfc6NFHUBYBFR9h24cA
Olmert ? causes in Jerusalem? so he flees the country and the Mayor of Jerusalem is advocating for him?
This is who Rich is
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=21595
Ah, a good quote from James “Fuck the Jews” Baker!
(ref: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2000/dec/12/uselections2000.usa1
fifth paragraph)
I agree with Patrick to a point. President is a pretty unique job. I disagree with the assertion that he is figurehead. But if it is true, I suppose the left owes GWB a massive apology. I think the president ought to steer the ship of state in broad strokes, and chose a set of advisors and department heads to tend to the details.
I think that the most important experience to have before being President is to lead a large organization. Whether that is a state government, an army, or a large company is pretty immaterial. It should just be big and complex.
Being a senator helps in appreciating many of the issues that the federal government deals with, but it is not as useful in terms of practial experience in leading the government.
But in deciding what a president will actually do when in office, there is nothing like a long history of making decisions on the record. For this, there is no substitute.
Two,
I’m not a Bush lover, but remember that he is suffering from a sharp rise in the price of oil and the bursting of the housing bubble, neither of which I think he bears significant blame for.
It’s just like Carter. Carter sucked. But he was also president at a sucky time.
Two,
the Clinton pardon scandal was revolting. Rich was bad, but he wasn’t the worst. No argument here.
bj,
Trading oil with Iran the enemy and he is not charged with treason? Iran WOW that is revolting indeed! and who is the Mayor of Jerusalem at the time to meddle with the United States courts decision? or any Mayor in the world to give himself a right to do this.
If any citizen doesn’t pay his taxes they go to prison and this guy doesn’t pay $48 million dollars and aid Iran and he gets a pardon.
Does Hillary take credit for that decision or it wasn’t 3 am when he pardoned this criminal?
She has the audacity to say after all this that she made decisions in the White house.
Now that reminds me of of your suck post that was great
I have a friend who always say when scandals like this errupts he says “I feel like I lost my virginity over news like this”
Send me links of the really bad ones if this one is not bad enough.
The only thing I remember about Bush is how he shocked on a pretzel and the idiot dog was just watching
*Chocked*
forget it I can’ t spell
*choked*
Patrick,
Also, a president’s job isn’t to be policy-maker in chief. Most presidents don’t go through with most of their policies, or if they do, said policies are compromised to a point of palatability to most sides. Most policy coming out of the White House is totally developed by advisers and officials and most spending bills and other important pieces of legislation are totally Congress’s doing. A president is honestly a figurehead more than anything else.
That is completely false. The President’s job *is* policy maker in chief. That’s actually his/her main role, and it’s assigned to the Chief Executive by the constitution. As for the role of advisers, of course they develop the details of the President’s policy, and are responsible for implementing it, but they work for the President. You may as well argue that the CEO of a major corporation is just a figure head. You could make the same arguments, and they would be just as wrong.
Nomad,
Iran has become a threat since the US removed the Shah, why ? because of his secret police activity ? to put a religious bigot in place
Why ask why? Are you still pretending that it matters? That there are political solutions to problems in the ME? You can play that game if you wish, but I’m opting out. That’s so 2002. Haven’t we spent enough time debating the merits of the wonderful middle-eastern governments? And the reasons why they do the things they do? Iran is building nuclear weapons. Iran has threatened to USE them, once it builds them. Iran has a 30 year history of sponsoring international terrorism. Who gives a shit what motivates the Islamic Republic? Not me. I only care about eliminating the threat. That’s my deal when it comes to the ME now. People who don’t threaten us, we should leave alone. People who do, we should answer with force. Not diplomacy. There is no such thing as diplomacy in the middle-east. Nobody even understands what that word means, there. I used to care about Arab public opinion. I used to try to convince people that their thinking was flawed. I tried very hard. I’ve had zero success with that, even with my best friend. At this point in time, I have nothing but pity for American diplomats who have to deal with middle-eastern governments. The preceding is just my personal opinion, of course, but I say that as an American who actually gave a shit at some point in the past. Most Americans don’t, and never did.
The President’s job, and that of the CEO, is to decide on a policy, not to make it. Don’t tell me you think President Bush drew up IRaq war plans or wrote out the tax cut proposal or that Bill Clinton came up with the details of welfare reform. Presidents do not make the policies, they decide on policies that were written up by advisers and other government officials or presented to him by Congressional vote.
The President’s job, and that of the CEO, is to decide on a policy, not to make it.
Don’t argue semantics with me, Patrick. You made a mistake. You make a lot of them. You just compound it by trying to play word games.
Twosret,
Right on all counts. Rich should have hanged. I actually didn’t know about the Iran connection, so perhaps he was the worst of the pardons.
I’m still upset over the FALN pardons.
A bombing spree lasting several years in New York and elsewhere and you get pardoned? To get votes from the Puerto Rican community? Excuse me?
As for your spelling problems above, it’s hard to spell under pressure. You choakt. That’s all. Don’t feel bad.
Patrick, Craig, can I propose the following:
“The president’s job is to propose policy in broad strokes, the details of which are later worked out by lower-ranking members in the government.”
The point being, that the president is not a figurehead (i.e. lacking power), but is not the only hand deciding government policy. I suspect you guys are arguing without disagreeing (feel free to prove me wrong, though).
BTW, I was deliriously exhausted last night, and may have posted some incomplete or poorly elaborated thoughts. But at least I didn’t fall asleep on the keyboard and post a few lines of b’s.
Craig,
your right about Iran that does play a key role in sponsoring the terrorism via HBZ and shia militias in Irak, about their nuclear bomb threat too.
But this situation is the result of american policy that put this evil mullahcraty in power previous the eighties, officially arguing that the Shah was harmering his people, but if one diggs, it was the Carter and gurus’agenda for a global prodject to reshape the ME
bj,
Oh! I’m looking up the FALN pardon this interest me because I need to know why would the democratic party i.e. Pelosi and Co. accept money like this. I might be speaking too soon but I will read more thanks for the reference.
Yeah I did Choakt on my keyboard especially when a three years old that has the most lovely Joie de vivre is asking me “what are you spelling Mommy?” that makes it worse LOL
I have done a lot of politics during the week so I guess it is time for sanity time with the family this weekend
Jon,
The point being, that the president is not a figurehead (i.e. lacking power), but is not the only hand deciding government policy. I suspect you guys are arguing without disagreeing (feel free to prove me wrong, though).
You just said Patrick was wrong in what he said, and now you tell me we are arguing over nothing?
I realize you aren’t an argumentative person, but it doesn’t do much good to trivialize it when people put forth claims that are factually incorrect does it? And what Patrick said the second time was an attempt to retroactively change what he had said the first time, without admitting he’d been wrong. I don’t like it when people pull that kind of cheap stunt.
But this situation is the result of american policy that put this evil mullahcraty in power previous the eighties, officially arguing that the Shah was harmering his people, but if one diggs, it was the Carter and gurus’agenda for a global prodject to reshape the ME
That’s true, but it wasn’t “American” policy to abandon the Shah and empower Islamists in Iran. It was Jimmy Carter’s policy (put that in your pipe and smoke it, Patrick). And Jimmy Carter’s mistake doesn’t make the Iranians right, does it? I still don’t understand why you think it’s important to worry about a Jimmy Carter brain-fart from the 1970s. He had a lot of logic spasms, though few weer as costly as the one he had re: Iran.
Scooter Libby is another one that should be hanged for what he has done, he pushed for the Iraq connection with 9/11, he defended Marc Rich. Wake up people those are demostic fucking terrorists that ruins our country.
“Irv Lewis “Scooter” Libby – White House adviser, mystery novelist, and neoconservative guiding light – has been one of the most important men pulling the levers behind the Bush administration.
Libby, who has held more titles in the Bush White House than can fit on a business card, served most prominently (until his resignation today) as vice presidential chief of staff. From the very beginning of the administration, Libby has essentially been Dick Cheney’s Dick Cheney – an odd combination of H.R. Haldeman and Harry Hopkins, seemingly managing every detail of the vice president’s professional life.
Libby was indicted today on five counts of criminal charges by special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald, who led the investigation into the leaked identity of CIA operative Valerie Plame. Libby now stands accused of being one of the white-collar criminals that he once represented as a high-powered defense attorney in the 1980s.
What few have realized at this historic moment is that for the past four-and-a-half years, Libby has been “scooting” from scandal to scandal. Libby has been at center stage for the other major national security scandals of the Bush administration, including the Iraq intelligence debacle, the secret meetings about Halliburton contracts, and doubtless others we have not heard of yet.
It was Libby – along with Paul Wolfowitz, Doug Feith, and a handful of other top aides at the Pentagon and White House – who convinced the president that the U.S. should go to war in Iraq. It was Libby who pushed Cheney to publicly argue that Saddam Hussein had ties to al Qaeda and 9/11.
It was also Libby who prodded former Secretary of State Colin Powell to include specious reports about an alleged meeting between 9/11 terrorist Mohammed Atta and an Iraqi intelligence official in Powell’s February 2003 speech to the United Nations. Libby and his staff reportedly badgered Powell’s speechwriters for weeks, culminating in a meeting where Libby presented information in a manner that, according to those who were there, was aggressive and over the top.
The so-called evidence unraveled when intelligence analysts examined it later. As one official told the Washington Post, “After one day of hearing screams about who put this together . . . we essentially threw it out.” Undeterred, Libby continued to try to press his agenda – going so far as calling Powell’s staff the night before the secretary was scheduled to give his speech to demand that they include new information.
Within “The Vulcans” – the name that Bush’s core national security team (Rumsfeld, Cheney, Rice, Wolfowitz, et al.) gave themselves – Libby has been a junior member and an ideological soulmate. Still known to friends and colleagues as “Scooter” (his father watched him crawling across his crib as a baby one day and exclaimed, “he’s a scooter!”), Libby first came into contact with this group as an undergraduate at Yale when he took a political science class from Wolfowitz, the former deputy secretary of defense who now heads the World Bank.
From Yale, Libby went on to Columbia Law School and then settled down to practice law in Philadelphia. His most famous client was Marc Rich, the fugitive financier and alleged tax evader who was pardoned by President Clinton during the last days of his administration. Clinton’s pardon, which at the time drew heavy criticism from Republicans, was largely the result of legal arguments Libby had been making for 15 years.
Libby’s Washington career began when Wolfowitz called his former student and asked him to give up his law practice to go to work in the Reagan administration. Libby immediately jumped at the opportunity and went to work in the State Department. Later, under the first George Bush, he moved to the Defense Department.
It was there that he wrote a sweeping new Defense Planning Guidance document that attempted to reorient U.S. global military policy. The paper – highly praised by neocons at the time – called for the United States to build up its military capabilities to the point where no other country could ever rival them. Cheney, who was then secretary of defense, liked the document so much that he ordered parts of the usually secret plan declassified and made them public= This Planning Guidance document went a long way toward endearing Libby to Cheney.
Within the Bush administration, what has touched Cheney has also reached Libby and vice versa. Libby’s role in the awarding of at least one no-bid, multi-million dollar contract to Halliburton is a case in point.
For months, the vice president’s office denied that it played any role in the selection of the company once headed by Cheney to repair Iraq’s oil fields. But, as the Washington Post reported last year, it turns out that Libby had been briefed by Pentagon officials before the contract was awarded – raising questions of impropriety at best, and corruption at worst. The man best able to answer the questions about what went on, according to the Post, is none other than Libby.
Given the depth of his influence in shaping the White House agenda over the past four-and-a-half years, losing Libby today is not only a huge blow to the vice president, but to the entire Bush administration.”
AndrewS,
Didn’t have time to read your post, but I’m confused about the relationship between Libby and Rich (who was pardoned by Bill Clinton).
And, lest we forget, for the umpteenth time, the ousting of Saddam hussein became American policy in 1998. The war would likely have started during the Clinton presidency had the Lewinski scandal not, um, blown up.
Craig,
Yes, I noticed that Patrick seemed a little fluid in is claim, and you two were actually pretty close, which is why I mentioned that. The purpose of debate is to try to approach something like the truth through a mutual exchange of views, after all. I would post a cartoon that makes that point, but I don’t think I could find one online.
bj
yep, see the damage now, who’s going to repear it ?
what a witted academic replied me on the subject :
The ‘capitalist elite’ is too busy lobbying the government to gain special contracts and advantages over their competitors, and also fooling their boards into giving them more pay to bother about ‘absolute’ self-reliance. ‘Self-reliance’ is good for the workers they fire – that is all.
” I would post a cartoon that makes that point,”
Haven’t you learned your lesson about cartoons yet BJ??
Just kidding, …… really! I thought your cartoons were hilarious. I think people should be more concerned about feeding and keeping their kids safe than worrying about what some cartoonist across an ocean draws in his or her spare time!
Craig, you really take offense quite easily, it’s pretty pathetic. There’s a big, big difference between deciding on a policy and making it. Make and decide are not synonyms. Don’t accuse me of playing with words here, you’re the one who seems to misunderstand basic verb differences.
I would agree with your compromise jon, but honestly, I still don’t think a president even proposes the policy three-quarters of the time, I honestly believe his aides come up with it and he approves it. I really doubt Bush came up with the idea to invade Iraq or the Aids package or the wiretapping, etc. I think aides told him they were good ideas, he listened to them, and approved them. Though maybe Bush is the exception, not the rule. But I agree with the rest of your compromise.
You see the problem with cutting some slack to people who are habitually wrong, like Patrick, Jon? He’s still trying to prove he was right all along, even though he wasn’t and still isn’t. He’s been pulling the same shit since he first showed up on this blog. Why encourage him?
Patrick,
All this makes me wonder if the office of the president hasn’t morphed quite a bit from what the framers of the constitution meant, taking on a big part of the role of the legislature. I wonder if this is, in part, why the legislative branch has seemingly devolved into exercises in partisan point-scoring. They don’t really have anything else to do.
And I’ll agree that when you buy a president, you’re really buying a large team whose members you don’t really know. It’s an issue.
tedders,
for better or worse, my cartoon-referencing days are over. I don’t even know what a cartoon is. In fact, I don’t even know what this statement means. What cartoon?
BJ,
I think you meant, “It depends on what the meaning of the word ‘cartoon’ is.”
Patrick, the President is “the” policy maker. Even if someone on his staff comes up with what he decides will be policy, it’s his policy because he or she is the President. Are you aware of the sign that was on President Truman’s desk? It said, “the buck stops here”. Which was meant to indicate that he didn’t ‘pass the buck’ to anyone else but accepted personal responsibility for the way the country was governed, because he was after all, the President!
tedders,
What is this word – “cartoon”? I do not know this word.
bj
Have you seen what Wafa Sultan has said about this word “cartoon” lately. Good stuff. If there was ever a woman with balls, it’s her
With a capital B, karen.
brooklynjon,
Libby was his lawyer made two million dollars of him and got him the pardon. Both fuckers that needs to be hanged for their treason.
Sy Hersh (Yiddish speaking Jew) said this in an interview “Money. A lot of the Jewish money from New York. Come on, let’s not kid about it. A significant percentage of Jewish money, and many leading American Jews support the Israeli position that Iran is an existential threat. And I think it is as simple as that. … That’s American politics circa 2007.”
Matt Damon said “ship the Bush twins to war in Iraq”. I say ship Chalsea and Hillary to Iraq along with this group
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Institute_for_National_Security_Affairs
Let them show their real love for America. The pardons of the member of Jewish Lobby is not an Arab propaganda. The strong hold of Jewish Lobby in American politics will become a crisis for Americans.
And if Wafa Sultan has Balls then NETUREI KARTA has much BIGGER BALLS.
hey, tedders, got that in store :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB9Tg0EyZzk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1umDm44yx4
Samer,
Don’t fool yourself. Nobody will issue a death threat to Neturei Karta. In taking their ridiculous position, they are taking on precisely zero risk.
Jews have a capability to be upset without blowing stuff up or burning stuff.
Furthermore, many people of all colors and creeds think that Iran represents an existential threat to Israel. It could be all the bellicose threats and predictions by Iranian leaders. It could be the nuclear weapons program. It could be their support for Hezbollah. You don’t need to be Jewish or to speak Yiddish to see this. You just need to open your eyes.
AndrewS,
I didn’t know that. Do you have a reference? That’s pretty amazing, assuming it’s true.
Yes Nomad, the Kinkster is fun to watch and listen to, he’ll never hold a state office, even the position of jester which he is best suited for. He did receive about 12% of the total vote, a big accomplishment for someone who when asked if he was pro-choice or pro-life answered, “I’m pro-football”. Kinky wants pot and prostitution to be legal, I’m pretty sure that’s going to be a deal breaker everywhere in conservative bible belt Texas except in maybe a college town or two. He has some great one liners but that’s about as deep as “the Kinkster’s” political manifesto goes.
“Don’t fool yourself. Nobody will issue a death threat to Neturei Karta. In taking their ridiculous position, they are taking on precisely zero risk. Jews have a capability to be upset without blowing stuff up or burning stuff.”
Well said bj, somehow it reminds me of the victim mentality that let’s ones logic and reasoning be put in neutral, so to speak. Similar to the analogy that believes Israeli’s have committed a Holocaust on the Palestinians. First, there wasn’t a Holocaust, then there’s one against the Pals. Second, if there was a Holocaust against the Palestinians, at least one in comparison to “the” Holocaust, there wouldn’t be any Palestinians left.
Samer,
” A significant percentage of Jewish money, and many leading American Jews support the Israeli position that Iran is an existential threat. And I think it is as simple as that. … That’s American politics circa 2007.”
Anyone with ears knows Iran is a threat. I suppose you agree with Iran’s President when he stated that Israel will be wiped off the map? Or was that simply a mistranslation? It’s all a Joooooooish conspiracy! Right? Americans and the world are told what to think by the Jewish controlled world media, yeah, that’s the ticket!! (sarcasm mode off)
brooklynjon,
I will give you slack for not looking it up yourself this time (Just kiddin). Good analysis from isteve.
http://isteve.blogspot.com/2005/10/scooter-libby-marc-rich-connection.html
Rush’s support of Hillary is not fear of Obama but loathing of McCain. The conservative base of the party hates the guy. So do I.
brooklynjon,
Don’t speak with such certainty, They get death threats from other Jews, this article in The Observer is since 2002.
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/magazine/story/0,11913,758997,00.html#article_continue
tedders,
Your language and poor sarcasm shows a great deal of ignorance, the majority of Palestinians doesn’t deny the Holocaust. They see it as one of the reasons of their misery. You are mixing up Iran and the Iranian influence with the majority of Palestinians. Keep your pants on next time you with to respond to me. I back up every claim with a reliable source, while you spit left and right some unorganized MSM thoughts
Yeah, don’t mess with Samer, Tedders. He’ll come to your house with his respectful Egyptian friends and beat you up
Samer says:
” Keep your pants on next time”
Only in your fantasies are my pants down and Jews dictate American politics.
Thanks, but no thanks Samer!!
Samer,
Boloney. These guys are the Taliban in Jewish clothes. No one has ever seriously bothered them. Not here in the USA. Not England. Not Israel. But, drive through one of their neighborhoods on the sabbath and watch what happens.
In any event, they’ve been famously anti-Zionist for decades and nothing has happened to any one of them. On the other hand, speaking out against radical Islam…well, why not ask Theo van Gogh what you get if you do that?
Incidentally, are you curious why they’re opposed to the State of Israel? Glad you asked. I’ll tell you. The believe it’s G-d’s will for the Jews to be subjugated until the Messiah comes and kills everyone else for being part of the subjugation of the Jews. Like the story of the Exodus from Egypt, but bigger. So they want to be out of power so G-d could justifiably kill you. Not so nice, is it?
AndrewS, thanks for the charity, man.
Today the 100 Kuwaiti Dinars buy 367.8 US Dollars. Go and spend some effort to improve your economy instead of acting like kids online. Let the Jews help you boost your economy instead of bringing destruction to your every day life.
AndrewS,
Ugh! I couldn’t read the whole thing. I feel like I need to take a shower now.
Samer,
Something tells me you just don’t like Jews. I’m not sure what it is. Just a feeling.
“Let the Jews help you boost your economy instead of bringing destruction to your every day life.”
Hahahahaahahahahaaaaahahahaahaaahahaaaaa!
The real Samer shows is uber intellect!
One minute the Joooo’s are our all powerful task masters leading Americans, nay, the world around by the nose telling us what to think, how to feel, how to vote, who to believe, setting American political policy, and the above statement is all you got? I’m a little disappointed in you. Surely you’ve got some more pearls of wisdom or opinions on how to straighten everything up. Don’t hold back, lay it on us, tell us how you really feel about how to straighten the world up. We’re all ears!!!
…….the sounds of crickets chirping………………..
tedders,
193 was suppose to make me laugh? because it didn’t, when you turn 4 may be you will get a grip.
tedders,
I think it’s time for the crushing “I’m rubber you’re glue” response.
So the Cocky tedders is in denial, why don’t you go kinky with Spitzer the NY Governer who have spent $80,000 on prostitution. A nice Jewish man that I should like if I follow rubber and glue advice. It is all Arab propaganda and anti-Jewish statements that Arab make up.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/spitzer_prostitution
So why don’t you respond client 10 and 11.
Samer, You are unequivocally a blithering idiot, post 193 wasn’t supposed to make you laugh jack ass, it’s an indictment of you, It’s calling you a sub intellectual, a cretin, a neanderthal, some one who has his head sooooo far up his own ass he can’t see the light of day or smell the roses, get it now?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2156975.stm
http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/Security/?id=1.0.1962300820
You twit.
198 is an indictment of you, sub inellectual for going against protecting your traitor Jews. What does Iran have to do with it? so Iran is comparable to your Jewish-American politician you idiot? Now that explains why you are such a moron with a filthy mouth.
When I die, bury me upside down so this thread can kiss my A$$.
“Nice Article – thanks for sharing
If you don’t mind me asking, which theme are you using here? I want to know if it’s custom or not.”