That Speech

The Video of the speech is here

The text of the speech is here

Grouchy rightwing response here

Andrew Sullivan drooling here 

and a bunch of US liberals having a full body orgasm upon hearing the speech here

Me? Well, I liked it. It was a good speech and Obama is a terrific politician. However, I do wonder if people would be talking about how great this speech was if (and yes I am going there) Obama was white, his pastor was white and his pastor's remarks were sometimes racist against blacks. Saying that black racism is a reality and part of the african-american experience is true, because, let's face it, we are all racist to one degree or another. The flaw is, however, that we do try to disavow that. That while we do recognize that racism has been part of our experience growing – not just the african-american experience-, we also recognize that its bad and that we should try our hardest not be this way, and even shunning it when we can. Obama is not saying that. He is saying that it's part of the African-American experience and that he can not disavow that anymore than disavowing the entire black community. I would find this personally troubling if I were a US voter. Other people don't seem to for some reason. They also don't seem botherd with the idea that this is the man who introduced him to christianity, that this is the man who baptized and spiritually guides his daughters and this is the man that he won't cut out of his life, no matter what. I mean Hagee was equally shit but McCain isn't running around saying "I can't disavow this man, he is my spiritual guide and I will keep him around because, well, he comes from a difficult background and therefore his views are not excusable, but understandable". Hell, he would be eviscerated for it, no?

As for arab obamaniacs, I wonder how they felt towards his shout out towards Israel and his summation of the Palestine-Israel conflict of it being a product of Radical Islam and Radical Islam alone. If they paid attention, then the honeymoon is over, but they didn't, which is why their support is still incredibly funny!

Comments

  1. yeah that bit about Israel the ally and radical islam really threw me off, didn’t see it coming…it seemed like he stuck it in there at the last minute for some reason. Maybe thats his way of proving he is not a “secret muslim” or something, but its definitely something I would have expected more in a Bush or McCain or even a Billary speech. Pure political point scoring.

  2. yeah that bit about Israel the ally and radical islam really threw me off, didn’t see it coming…it seemed like he stuck it in there at the last minute for some reason.

    I think that was to shore him up with American Jewish voters. An important constituency in the Democrat primaries. Rev. Wright talked about the US supporting terrorism against the Palestinian people. That would probably be read as Rev. Wright thinking America should not support Israel, and that Israel was a terrorist state. Obama would have to be pretty clear that he disavowed that.

  3. crap… that first part was to supposed to be a quotation. Does anyone know a good website where I can learn how to use all these confounded html tags? I don’t know crap about crap when it comes to them.

  4. Does anyone know a good website where I can learn how to use all these confounded html tags?

    Mark, this one is a good website. Try it out.

  5. Well, I don´t agree with your intepretation. He does say that racism is there, and he wouldn´t disavow his granmother for expressing such views. But his point is that if the americans shuffels those feelings under the carpet, rather then dealing with them openly, nothing will change. He clearly states that such views are false, and wrong, because “america is not static”.
    For once, here is a politician who dare to speak his mind, it seems. Quite impressing.

  6. I agree with Windingstad, sounds to me, SM, like your guilty of following the US media’s path of constant skeptisim. No one is perfect and therefore any voter of intelligence will give allowances to any candidate. Including his comments on Israel, which every single politician in this country is forced to pander too. Also let’s face facts here, while I will not necessarily agree that Radical Islam created the Israeli / Palestinian problem, let’s face facts, Radical Islam has over the last decade or more stopped all potential progress. If Hamas just gave peace a chance and played ball with Israel, proved it could curb if not stop the launching of missiles and suicide bombers, I truly believe that Israel would go for peace. Your country seems to get along just fine with Israel, as does Jordan, so I am pretty confident that their treatement of the Palestinians has more to do with the threat then it does well, racism against Arabs. So in my view Obama makes yet another good point. You yourself have lambasted the Palestinians on this very site for playing the ” feel sorry for us ” card. When in fact many Egyptians have it far worse off . Until the Palestinians represented by Hamas, show that they are willing to drop the weapons and get along, fact is Radical Islam is responsible for the state of Israeli / Palestinian relations. Will the Arab Obama contigent believe this to be true is another story. Hopefully they are sophisticated enough to shine a light of truth on that issue and see the facts rather than get caught up in the rhetoric.

    Back to the state of race relations in the US, Obama is just stating facts and refusing to take sides. It is amazing that in 2008 we still face racism issues in the US and his rise to fame proves that it just needs to be brought out into the open for things to change.

  7. brooklynjon says:

    Is it actually true that Obama is not “taking sides”. It would seem to me that by being a member of that church for umpteen years, for calling the pastor a spiritual advisor, by making him a political advisor, by placing him in a position of prominence in his website, and by equating him (bizarrely, if you ask me) with his grandmother, then he has, in fact, taken sides. But now that he’s being called on it, he insists that he’s not taking sides. Back where I come from, there’s a polite term for this: baloney.

    And the press is “skeptical” of Obama? That’s a laugher if I ever heard one. They’re practically in the first row throwing down their crutches!

  8. Frenshmanaz,

    Unlike many of my fellow Egyptians, i don’t take anti Arab views offensively as i used to few years ago. Simply because after all, some of them like you said, do make sense.

    We are brilliant in creating out of the box, creative conspiracy theories to justify our suffering while denying our ignorance with how to work shit out. if i could run that less than 30 sec. clip of Obama’s attack on radical islam on a national T.V station twice, I swear I could easily portrait him as the next American devil that promises suffering and anguish to us poor Arabs.

    creating more of that “feel sorry for ourselves” propaganda always works for fundamentalists because it puts the people’s mind on high alert for no clear reason and for a very long time, making it easier for us to neglect the problem than to live in a non ending frustration and much much easier for them to rule us like cattle.

  9. christina/ohio says:

    The only ones this speech worked on where his supporter’s. Everyone else thinks he’s as full of BS as any other politician is. I would like to thank him for exposing what goes on on Sunday’s in many black churches, a lot of us had no idea.

  10. Up until last week I wasn’t sure who I was going to vote for. I didn’t like McCain enough to vote for him in 2000 or 2004, and he’s not a better candidate now than he was then. And I’ve been assuming that Obama would become more pragmatic if he actually won the election. This shit with Reverend Wright is a deal breaker for me, though. And that would be so even if he had completely disavowed Wright and left that Church, because he should have done that a long time ago if he really WAS bothered by those kind of hateful and racist remarks. I lived through the LA riots and I damn sure don’t want to have a President who supports the same kind of black racism that caused them.

    I’m just wondering why we didn’t hear about this until now, when Hillary is all but out of the race? There’s no way in hell that Obama would be even still be a viable candidate if this news had broken 6 months ago.

  11. Thanks for the reference Kyle.

  12. Craig,

    6 month ago it could not become news. However, it would’ve been revived today if Obama were leading (or one of) contender.

  13. I lived through the LA riots and I damn sure don’t want to have a President who supports the same kind of black racism that caused them.

    WTF?

  14. Craig,
    “Black racism that caused them”, you mean that the reaction to four storm troopers beating the hell out of an unarmed man, then getting aquitted should be “thank you master, we is grateful master, the n—-r had it coming master” and anything other than that and absolute acceptance of that verdict would’ve been considered “Black racism”. Man, that’s really crazy even for someone as certified as you. Indeed “Obvious” WTF?
    And christinal ohio,
    You shouldn’t have “thanked him for exposing what goes on on Sunday’s in many black churches”, you should have been more true to yourself and more courageous and said that you “thank him for giving you a reason to hate and pick on a group of people that you’ve always hated and resented deep inside, but didn’t have a context through which you can express that hate openly”, now you’ve got it.

  15. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots

    Yes, when you don’t understand that gangs of blacks victimizing any non-black (most of the victims were Asian immigrants) and destroying property owned by non-blacks, for over a week, is an expression of black racism, it is an obvious “WTF” moment, Mohamed. But I suppose since such behavior is perfectly acceptable in the Arab world, it is too much to think you might “get” it, isn’t it?

    Maybe Barack Obama should be running for office in one of your shithole countries, instead of the US. He certainly seems to have the unconditional support of Arab racists, doesn’t he? Every Arab bigot I know of supports him enthusiastically. Which says a lot, doesn’t it?

    Obama isn’t going to win with the black vote alone. And I suspect he just lost the support of every other ethnic community in the US (except Arabs of course!). The largest ethnic group in LA is Latinos, and they were also victimized during the LA riots.

  16. Byb the way, Mohamed, why do you accuse people who object to Barack Obama’s apparent racism of being racist? Doesn’t it make more sense to accuse the bigot instead of the bigot’s targets? And yet, you have no problem with Barrack Obama, or his Pastor, do you? It’s all good, right? It’s everyone ELSE who is a racist, right? Idiot.

  17. I don’t support Obama at all Craig, Ralph Nader’s my man. By the way, can you elaborate a little bit on the statement about “every arab bigot that you know of supports him enthusiastically”, did you mean every arab “bigot” because they’re just arabs so they must be bigots or they’re supporting Obama then they must be bigots, or after you knew them well, you discovered they’re bigots, the first two explanations fit you like a glove, the third one’s a little hard to believe, because, I’d really find it hard to believe that you know any arabs, or that any arab would be thrilled to know you, as after thirty seconds of opening your mouth, they’d realize they’re talking to a nut job to be avoided by all means, let alone letting you know that they’re the bigots supporting Obama.

  18. I don’t support Obama at all Craig, Ralph Nader’s my man.

    That’s a nothing statement, Mohamed. Nader is a nobody. And you are and have been supporting Obama. Who are you trying to fool?

    By the way, can you elaborate a little bit on the statement about “every arab bigot that you know of supports him enthusiastically”, did you mean every arab “bigot” because they’re just arabs so they must be bigots…

    I mean specific Arab bigots that I know of from the blogs. People like you. And Twosret. And the entire crew at KABOBfest. And every other Arab bigot I see on the blogs. Or is it racism when a white man points out Arab bigotry? Is that how it works in that thing you call a brain, Mohamed? Or are you just so far gone you aren’t even aware of the amount of bigotry there is in Arab culture? Not every Arab is a bigot, but you guys have a *serious* problem.

  19. DC Gamer says:

    Thank you, Craig, for the takedown of Mohamed’s racist rant. Mohamed, you probably don’t live in the U.S. or you would understand that racism is not as prevalent as it once was here. I am not naive enough to think that it is completely gone, but we Americans have come a long way. The evidence is all around us.

    Consider, for example, this season’s “reality TV” shows. Blacks, whites, Asians, and Latinos all compete equally on “American Idol” and other shows. A black man even won “American Idol” one year.

    Most people are so sensitive about racism now that a racist comment or joke is a huge no-no.

    That is why Pastor Wright’s comments are so disgusting. He is a racist, pure and simple! If that bile is what is being spewed in America’s black churches, then I am glad that it was exposed.

    Finally, I would suggest that it is not the white man that is holding blacks down in the U.S. It is people like Pastor Wright, or “Reverend” Sharpton or Jesse Jackson or the NAACP or the Congressional Black Caucus that are the ones holding black people back. They realize that once their people throw off the shackles of victimhood to reach their full potential, then they lose the source of their power and money.

    That is also true about the Arab world. It is not the Jews or the Americans or the Europeans that are keeping Arabs impoverished and backwards. It is the dictators and religious leaders that are imprisoning their own people.

  20. I dare you to find me using a single word of racism or a collective generalization against any group of people as you and the other sick bastards here do everyday, as far as I can tell, your personality is of a typical sociopath or misanthrope, who’d be bigoted against any group of people who happen to be a little bit different than him, meaning, if you were born in Alabama for example, you’d have deep sympathy for the KKK (which I’m sure you have, you didn’t have to be born in Alabama), and if you were born in Saudi Arabia you’d have this sympathy towards Bin Laden, and if you were jewish you’d probably have joined sash or kakh or kahana khay, no matter where you were born, your personality, would have gravitated you towards the more hateful and destructive elements of the society, so as Twosert always says, get some help.

  21. DC Gamer says:

    Mohamed, I re-read your comment. You are right, I cannot call your comments “racist.” Nevertheless, you used very incendiary words, and you clearly do not know the details of the Rodney King race riots.

  22. Wow, Craig. I live in L.A. Blacks are a minority group here and a very small minority of blacks in the community actually participated in those riots.

    White and black need to clean up their racist claims and actvities. But I guess that you didn’t understand that part of Obama’s speech. I’m not wondering why.

  23. Mohamed,

    I dare you to find me using a single word of racism or a collective generalization against any group of people as you and the other sick bastards here do everyday

    You’ve been making abusive racist comments about Jews and whites on this blog for years, dude. It’s been pointed out to you before. You aren’t even aware that the things you say are biased, are you? That’s because in your culture, it’s OK to look down on other people because of their religion, country of origin, ethnicity, etc. It’s not OK in American culture.

    Wow, Craig. I live in L.A. Blacks are a minority group here and a very small minority of blacks in the community actually participated in those riots.

    While the majority stood silent. Or cheered them on. And blacks are not such a small minority. Latinos are the only larger ethnic group in Los Angeles.

    White and black need to clean up their racist claims and actvities. But I guess that you didn’t understand that part of Obama’s speech. I’m not wondering why.

    Obama’s speech is meaningless. It doesn’t explain his extraordinarily close association with a militant black racist, over the last 20 years. If he didn’t subscribe to the views of Pastor Wright he should have walked out of that Church with his family 20 years ago. Why didn’t he? By continuing to remain an active and enthusiastic member of that congregation, even after he became a prominent politician, he was explicitly endorsing Pastor Wright’s views. Now, he would have us believe that he rejects them?

  24. By the way, JAS, did you live in LA in 1992? If so, how old were you? I’m assuming you either didn’t live here at the time or you were too young to have first-hand recollections of what those riots were really like, based on your comments. The politically correct and cleaned up version that got put out for public consumption doesn’t really do the trauma and the gravity event justice.

  25. brooklynjon says:

    Mohamed,

    With the Rodney King verdict, as with any other verdict, people have every right to be upset. But there are acceptible ways in civil society to express your displeasure. Rioting is not one of them. Especially when, in rioting, you attack other people simply because of their race.

    The objection to the King verdict was that he was treated differently because of his race. If the point is that treating people differently because of race is wrong, then you cannot demonstrate that point by doing the same thing. If racism is wrong, then using racism to oppose it is also wrong. This applies to Rodney King, and it applies to Obaam’s pastor as well. It also applies to the whites who rioted after the OJ Simpson verdict.

  26. It also applies to the whites who rioted after the OJ Simpson verdict.

    Good point! :D

  27. BJ,
    I didn’t mean that rioting and looting is the correct response, I was just outraged at the knucklehead’s (Craig) claim that the black outrage at the verdict was some sort of black racism, which I don’t think it was.
    Craig,
    You’re not only a pathetic psycho, you’re also a liar, please prove your claims, since you have nothing else to do all day long (probably on wellfare), and since you’ve got a child’s mind to keep you driven, I think you’ve got from here to eternity to find a single racist comment you lying bastard. The only times that I’ve used stereotyping labels is when I called you and some other nuts like you hicks and hillbillies, which I firmly stand by, get it you hick?

  28. I didn’t mean that rioting and looting is the correct response, I was just outraged at the knucklehead’s (Craig) claim that the black outrage at the verdict was some sort of black racism, which I don’t think it was.

    I didn’t say black outrage at the verdict was a racist response, Mohamed. I said the LA *riots* were caused by black racism. Stop putting words in my mouth. Knucklehead.

    The only times that I’ve used stereotyping labels is when I called you and some other nuts like you hicks and hillbillies, which I firmly stand by, get it you hick?

    Those are both ethnic slurs. It seems I didn’t have to go far to find proof of your racism, did I? :p

  29. Craig: I lived in Chicago in 1968…remember those riots? I went to a movie in downtown Chi that night and after the film when I exited to the street the National Guard was directing traffic! Moved to L.A. shortly thereafter and have been a resident since then.

    The black Los Angeles County population circa 1990 was more than 2 million. Verbal opinions were voiced, but as I wrote, a minority of the black community participated in the riots.

    Maybe I am older and wiser.

  30. The black Los Angeles County population circa 1990 was more than 2 million.

    And most of that 2 million concentrated in the city proper. You think that’s a “minority”? That seemed to be the way you were characterizing it. The Latino population on Los Angeles (not “Greater Los Angeles”) was probably less than that, in 1992.

    Verbal opinions were voiced, but as I wrote, a minority of the black community participated in the riots.

    And, as I wrote, the majority of the black population either stood on the street and watched the “participants” or they stayed at home. The black community did nothing to try to quell those riots. What’s your point? That only a relatively small percentage of Los Angeles blacks actually became violent? So, there is nothing to worry about? During the heydey of the KKK it was only a small percentage of whites who actually became violent, too. But that doesn’t excuse the white community for tolerating the KKK, or even supporting them, in areas where the Klan was active, does it?

    Maybe I am older and wiser.

    Older, anyway! :P

    You know, the first people who got victimized in those riots were the whites who were on the street protesting with blacks right after the Rodney King verdict. I recall that being reported, shortly before the helicopters started broadcasting Reginald Denny dragged out of his truck. If you aren’t black but felt “safe” here in Los Angeles during those riots just because it was only a small percentage of blacks who were attacking people, then you are the very FIRST person I have ever encountered who felt that way.

  31. Craig…
    Loaded: “extraordinarily close.” Some avoid differences of opinion while others tend to believe that only through exchange of opinions will change occur. I suspect Obama is the latter.

    Loaded again: “enthusiastic member”. So you suppose that Obama’s opinions and those of Pastor Wright’s views are like peas in a pod? May I suggest that Obama is better able to distinguish the differences between those two opinions than someone else? Simply rejecting another’s opinion is easy…and like you he was and is unlikely to walk away from discourse.

  32. I lived in Chicago in 1968…remember those riots?

    By the way, I reject that comparison in it’s entirety. Those riots in Chicago were between protesters and police. That wasn’t a race riot. No similarity whatsoever.

  33. Given the large number of gang bangers in South Central I would not even feel particularly safe in those neighborhoods on a sunny day. Change is needed.

  34. “As for arab obamaniacs, I wonder how they felt towards his shout out towards Israel and his summation of the Palestine-Israel conflict of it being a product of Radical Islam and Radical Islam alone. If they paid attention, then the honeymoon is over, but they didn’t, which is why their support is still incredibly funny!”

    Maybe it’s because they think that Obama plays the same game as the late Yasser Arafat, Mahmoud Abbas and other Arab politicians who say say one thing to the larger audience, while winking and telling “their own people” that they didn’t mean it and funnel money to their paramilitary branches to carry on the fight.

  35. JAS,

    Loaded: “extraordinarily close.” Some avoid differences of opinion while others tend to believe that only through exchange of opinions will change occur. I suspect Obama is the latter.

    Excuse me, but we aren’t talking about colleagues, and we aren’t talking about acquaintances. We are talking about a Christian Pastor, giving sermons in a Church, while Obama and his family were in the pews. Obama thought so much of Wright that he credits him in his book for introducing him to Christianity and with being his spiritual adviser. And we all heard the enthusiastic response of the congregation there to Wright’s sermons. If that wasn’t something Obama wanted to be associated, he should have found another Church, right from the start. Instead of waiting 20 years to tell us he doesn’t agree with the “message” of the man he calls a spiritual mentor. This is also the Pastor that Obama selected to perform his marriage ceremony, and to baptize his children.

    Loaded again: “enthusiastic member”. So you suppose that Obama’s opinions and those of Pastor Wright’s views are like peas in a pod? May I suggest that Obama is better able to distinguish the differences between those two opinions than someone else?

    May I suggest that actions speak louder than words? I’ve walked out of Churches and never gone back, because all I heard in the sermon was condemnation and judgmental righteous proclamations against “evil doers” – that isn’t what Christianity is all about to me, and I won’t willingly sit through garbage like that. Why should I think Obama was incapable of making the same judgment call that I have made myself on multiple occasions? Do you *really* believe that people become members of congregations where they disapprove of what their pastor is preaching? I don’t. Not for a second.

    Simply rejecting another’s opinion is easy…and like you he was and is unlikely to walk away from discourse.

    But we aren’t talking about opinions. We’re talking about bigotry and racism.

  36. Does anyone here agree that Obama threw his dead White grandmother under the bus for his own political expediency? This was the same woman who took him in and raised him because his hippie White mother was too busy trying to save the world with her idealism and his Black father was in Africa getting new wives. He’s going to compare that woman to a racist preacher who cursed America from the pulpit?

    This is the same politician who condemned Don Imus with no hesitation while stumbling over words to defend Reverend Wright for preaching racist crap for over twenty years.

  37. Craig: In Chicago that night I was misdirected into a black neighborhood. Didn’t seem to matter how the whole thing had started…hell broke loose in those streets just like the lakeside. Opportunists?

    As I wrote, some will walk away from trouble, others will stand and try to change some part for the better. Maybe all of your friends agree with your opinions, big deal. Having lived in Illinois for 18 years, some time spent in Chicago, I have some idea where Obama comes from in seeking change. Needed then, and needed now.

    Bigots and racists are the last to notice their bigotry and racism. Racists in churches? Not unusual. Apparently, Pastor Wright took great notice of his religious view and covered his racism with self-righteousness. Not really a good combo. But who will stand up to change that? I guess, not you. You walked away in your examples.

  38. correction to my post at #36: Barack’s White grandmother is sick, not dead.

  39. JAS, I don’t know where you are going with your comment. Do you think Obama ever tried to “change” Wright’s attitudes and opinions? I haven’t seen any such claim put forward by Obama, or by anyone else. In fact, Obama’s speech seems to indicate that he felt he was just humoring Pastor Wright, the way one would humor a “crazy old uncle”, or the way he claims he had to humor his Grandmother. You are free to your opinions, of course, but as I’ve already stated I believe Obama’s continued participation in that congregation (which he seems to be quite proud of) is the best evidence there is of what his opinions were, at the time.

    Maybe all of your friends agree with your opinions, big deal.

    If you are talking about the LA riots, it isn’t just “all of my friends” who agree with my opinions. Everyone I knew then and everyone I know now who lived through them, agrees with my opinions about that one week period of time. You are the very first person I’ve ever seen who claims to have been present during those riots who has had an opinion that it wasn’t such a big deal. And I’m including my Chinese in-laws (those riots started about when I got married) in that. I’m guessing you catch a lot of heat when you try to trivialize the LA riots with people who were here then.

    As I wrote, some will walk away from trouble, others will stand and try to change some part for the better.

    That’s me, always walking away from trouble…. :P

    Having lived in Illinois for 18 years, some time spent in Chicago, I have some idea where Obama comes from in seeking change.

    Who gives a sh%& about Chicago? Is Obama running for Mayor of Chicago now? And why does Obama only seek change now that he’s running for President? I’m starting to have some serious doubts about this man’s integrity, at this point in time. All that glib talk is completely worthless if there is no moral conviction behind it.

  40. Mohamed,

    Seebak meno :)

  41. Another interesting discussion on Obama’s speech is at Gateway Pundit. I borrow this post from a poster named “retire05″ because it reveals some stuff I didn’t know about Obama’s story about his grandmother:

    It seems that Senator Obama slightly changed the story of his [white] grandmother quite a bit just for political expendiency.

    On P. 46 of his book [i]Dreams of My Father[/i], he writes how his grandmother was at a bus stop and a panhandler keep asking her for money which made her very nervous: “He was very agressive, Barry. Very agressive. I gave him a dollar and he kept asking. If the bus hadn’t come, I think he might have hit me over the head”.

    His grandmother never mentioned the panhandler was a black man. His grandfather did and seemed to be upset that she would be afraid of a panhandler just (as the grandfather seemed to think) because the man was black. So the woman, who went to great pains to explain the event to her half black grandson by not identifing the race of the panhandler is now demonized for being afraid.

    Obama goes on to tell that when his grandfather told him the panhandler was black and that was, in his opinion, why his grandmother was upset, his grandfather “before my eyes, he grew [b]small[/b] and old and very sad.”

    How does this line up with his comment that his grandmother was afraid of black men who passed her on the street and made racial slurs?

    It doesn’t.

    Obama wanted to prove that just because Wright used racial slurs, so what? So did his white grandmother, even though his story in his own book is something quite different. He was trying to make a moral relevance by throwing granny under the political bus. I wonder how his grandmother (who is still alive) felt while she probably watched his speech on TV in her Hawaii apartment.

    That is moral hypocracy and political pandering and shows the core of the man who is willing to do that.

  42. John Cunningham says:

    American blacks should stop trying to pass themselves off as descendents of Nubian royalty and get over themselves.

  43. hahaha Craig you “survived” the Rodney King Riots..WOW, how did you go about doing that? Must have been so dangerous for you!!!

    Too bad no one who didn’t live or work in South Central/Central L.A./Inglewood even felt the riots happen. Trust me, my family and I “survived” the riots too..

    And what do the riots have ANYTHING to do with Barack Obama?

    Plus, the idea that the riots were a case of blacks targeting non-blacks is not exactly true…not all the rioters were black, and actually 25 of the 53 deaths resulting from the riots were African-Americans, more than the 16 HIspanics, 8 whites, 2 Asians and 2 Middle Easterners. Yes, just as many Middle Easterners were killed as Asians so I don’t see why they get to be called the most brutalized of the groups (though they did lose a lot of property, that was more because a lot of stores in those areas happened to be Asian-owned than those stores were specifically getting targeted for being under Asian ownership. Most of the violence was random). And there were plenty of Hispanics joining blacks in those riots. Plenty.

  44. yes JT, I’m sure the commenter who read pieces of Obama’s book knows a lot more about Obama’s relationship with his grandparents, and what his grandparents told him, than Obama himself. Makes perfect sense!

  45. Craig, why do you expect “the black community” that wasn’t involved to band together to stop the riots any more than you would expect white or Asian or Hispanic or ARab Angelenos to do so? It’s the responsibility of the police, not civilians to keep rioters in check. Innocent blacks had nothing to do with the riots and there’s no reason to hold them responsible, or judge them, for not somehow mounting a counter-riot and subjecting themselves to physical violence as you seem to have expected them to do. They were as innocent as any other Angeleno.

  46. “yes JT, I’m sure the commenter who read pieces of Obama’s book knows a lot more about Obama’s relationship with his grandparents, and what his grandparents told him, than Obama himself. Makes perfect sense!”

    They were words written by Obama himself, so what he knows, the reader also knows. And why do you assume the reader only read pieces of the book and not the whole book itself? Presumptuous?

  47. Too bad no one who didn’t live or work in South Central/Central L.A./Inglewood even felt the riots happen. Trust me, my family and I “survived” the riots too..

    Really? Then how come you seem to even know less about the riots than what is available on wikepedia, Patrick? My sister-in-law was a student at USC at the time, and they had to close the school and lock down dorms when the rioters started attacking students and faculty on campus. My Sister worked at a company in Lynwood at the time, and she was too terrified to even try to make it home the first night. I could go on. But I won’t. Everyone who lived in LA during those riots has similar stories to tell. But not you. And not JAS. Why is that? Do you really remember when LA was burning, Patrick?

  48. Plus, the idea that the riots were a case of blacks targeting non-blacks is not exactly true…

    Yes it is, Patrick. Have you no shame? Is there no lie you won’t tell? And why weren’t you up front with me about being an Egyptian Copt, a couple weeks ago when we were having the argument about Christianity in the Middle-East? Didn’t you think that was at all relevant? You tried to hide it even after you corrected me when I thought you were a Jordanian Christian. Why do you do the things you do, Patrick? Don’t you think it’s important that people know what you background is, so they can understand your perspective? Your behavior on this blog has never been anything but deceptive. Last week, last month, today… always the same.

  49. Twosret,
    Mish momken ezay el 7ayawan da mesta7mel nafso, begad ’3abawto tshell, fazee3 :) .

  50. Too bad no one who didn’t live or work in South Central/Central L.A./Inglewood even felt the riots happen. Trust me, my family and I “survived” the riots too..

    How old were you in 1992, Patrick? I was in my 20s and I think based on your comments about how much income tax your *parents* pay that you were probably a toddler at then? Or is this one of those things that you don’t think is relevant to your oh-so-valuable opinions? :P

  51. “I have some idea where Obama comes from in seeking change.”

    Aside from Obama’s words we have nothing. I agree, Obama is looking for change. I cannot understand what kind of change he is looking for. For few days now every time I hear Obama’s name David Dinkens comes to mind. I cannot explain why but I am not risking it.

    Frankly, I probably wouldn’t have voted for Obama because of his position on Iraq but after his handling this Wright thing he is off my list without a doubt.

  52. Sandmonkey,

    He’s toast. The people who were adults in 1963, black and white, worked together and turned this country upside down to put an end to racial prejudices in our public institutions. They are still an influential segment of the voting public, and they’ve seen Rev. Wright’s speeches. Obama’s speech was an attempt to deal only with the corrosive racial language in the Rev. Wright’s speeches, and not with the many, serious, slanderous historical lies. He did a nice job on the issue of race, much like Robert Kennedy did upon the murder of Dr. Martin Luther King in 1968.

    http://www.historyplace.com/speeches/rfk.htm

    So what he said did not sound new.

    The bigger issues are yet to come. If the folks at this site have truly done their homework, this guy is unelectable. He will have no credibility as a reformer.

    http://www.obamatruth.org/

    Meanwhile, there is the ridicule. This video is not safe for work, but it’s already been carried on numerous heavily trafficked sites. This video is significant because it is directed to Obama’s core constituency, and the jokes in it will reach them, whether the video itself does or not.

    http://perfunction.typepad.com/perfunction/2008/03/alternate-unive.html

  53. Mohamed,

    Ana kont hamoot men el dahek :) dah mosh tabiaa’y aa’ndo haga mesh mazbootah wa ana belzat megnanah genan mosh aa’di. shewiat oo’nserya aa’la shewit molokhia we yalla. Mabyezhaa’sh a’badan.

    El saraya el safra makano :)

  54. Well yes Craig, I was two years old, but my parents were obviously adults and I know from them that they never really felt endangered living on the Westside. In fact, my father was abroad while it was happening and my mom was home along but she said she was worried at first but the riots never really affected her at all. Your two counterexamples are USC and LYNWOOD which are BOTH IN SOUTH LA, just going to prove my point. And if it was a case of blacks targeting non-blacks, why did more blacks die than any other group? Why did Mexicans join in the rioting? If Asians were the number one target, why were they the lowest victim count?

    How is it being deceptive of me not to tell you I’m an Egyptian Copt (though i really do align myself more with the Catholic church than the Coptic church when we’re talking about Egyptian issues)? I’m American first and foremost anyway.

    And that Pastor Manning guy is absurd. Come on. He’s definitely more racist than Rev. Wright. Saying Obama was “born trash” and is a “mack daddy who pimps white women and black women” is so thoroughly offensive it’s ridiculous.

  55. Craig:

    I could splice in footage from the Chicago riots I experienced into the L.A. riot footage and see the very same activities, but I was not terrorized in L.A. The black neighborhood rioters in Chicago were opportunists who took advantage of the lack of police patrolling their streets. That choice was a matter of character—those who chose to break store windows in the sudden near vacuum of police presence on their streets and those who did not choose to participate in that activity. The main factor in L.A. is that I assumed that some small percent of blacks and others would participate in the mayhem—some claiming a racist cause, some gang bangers who habitually and characteristically violated laws, and others as opportunists, but in fact I felt quite safe in my multicultural multiracial neighborhood. Unreasonable?

    This is a census chart for Los Angeles in 2000:
    http://www.laalmanac.com/population/po24la.htm

    No doubt some population percent changes between now and then, but blacks are a distinct minority in most L.A. neighborhoods, and in most neighborhoods we coexist peacefully. Many minorities in L.A. have already realized and attained some kind of success. In short, my black neighbors may have agreed with other blacks in L.A. regarding the Rodney King trial (btw, without “cheering”), but I believed that my neighbors as well as blacks in most other neighborhoods were unlikely to jump onto a freeway in their cars to participate in the riot, or worse, wreak havoc in their local neighborhoods—my neighborhood.

    One of the differences between your opinion and my opinion is that I give credit points to all blacks and minorities who chose not to riot, whereas you characterize black onlookers as cheerleaders, as if they did not choose to remain lawful in a time of crisis.

  56. Well yes Craig, I was two years old…

    Then why were you telling me about something you obviously have no first-hand recollection of?

    but my parents were obviously adults and I know from them that they never really felt endangered living on the Westside. In fact, my father was abroad…

    So, he wasn’t actually in LA during the riots…

    while it was happening and my mom was home along but she said she was worried at first but the riots never really affected her at all.

    She was a housewife at the time? Well, I wouldn’t be surprised if the riots didn’t effect her, if she sat at home for the whole week and never left the house, Patrick. Most the rest of the LA’s residents didn’t have such limited exposure.

    Had your parents just arrived? They had no friends or other family in Los Angeles? Because almost everyone I know was effected directly by those riots one way or another. You seem to basing your entire opinion on your Mother’s experience.

    Your two counterexamples are USC and LYNWOOD which are BOTH IN SOUTH LA, just going to prove my point.

    Well, what in the hell was your point? You have any idea how many people work in LA, or go to school at Universities in LA, or *gasp* live in LA? I worked at a Chinese owned computer manufacturer in Los Angeles at the time… that is where I met my (Chinese) ex-wife. Speaking of which, you do realize that almost the entire Chinese community in LA (which is quite large) lives adjacent to black neighborhoods?

    And if it was a case of blacks targeting non-blacks, why did more blacks die than any other group?

    Because they were killed by police, national guard, US Marines, US Army, or they died in their own poorly set arson fires I assume. Or they were shot by citizens who were in fear of their lives. My sister borrowed a handgun from me and had it sitting next to her in the car that whole week, and she is not a fan of gun ownership. Or, rather, she wasn’t back then…

    Why did Mexicans join in the rioting?

    They didn’t. If you heard that, you heard a lie.

    If Asians were the number one target, why were they the lowest victim count?

    You are only counting deaths in your “victim count”? Tens of thousands of people were victimized. I recall kidnap/rape victims calling local news stations because they couldn’t get through to the police, asking for somebody to help them, saying they didn’t even know where they were or whether the kidnappers would be coming back or not. And they were afraid to leave the buildings they were in. As for Asians being the number one victims, that is well documented. It wasn’t until the third day that Asians started arming themselves and defending their neighborhoods… and they WERE in their neighborhoods, not in black neighborhoods.

    Now I have to ask you why you continue to assert things as fact when you have no first hand knowledge whatsoever. You were 2 years old. Your father was overseas. Your mother was at home, completely oblivious. What are your special credentials to comment on this, exactly?

    How is it being deceptive of me not to tell you I’m an Egyptian Copt (though i really do align myself more with the Catholic church than the Coptic church when we’re talking about Egyptian issues)? I’m American first and foremost anyway.

    Why don’t you think it is deceptive, not to acknowledge you are an Egyptian Copt, on an Egyptian blog, when the topic is persecution of Christians in the middle east? Especially when the matter of traditional middle-eastern Christian denominations are denouncing Protestants as “illegitimate Christians”? You don’t think the fact that you are yourself a middle-eastern Christian of a traditional ME denomination has any bearing on the matter?

    And that Pastor Manning guy is absurd. Come on. He’s definitely more racist than Rev. Wright. Saying Obama was “born trash” and is a “mack daddy who pimps white women and black women” is so thoroughly offensive it’s ridiculous.

    I have no idea who this person is. Does he have an extensive personal relationship with one of the candidates?

  57. BTW, Patrick, your claims that the riots were limited to South Central and Central LA are incorrect. The violence extended from Venice Beach and Santa Monica (extreme west coast of San Gabriel Valley) to Pomona (extreme east end of the San Gabriel Valley). But those were mostly just racially motivated attacks on individuals, rather than full scale rioting and arson. Doesn’t mean they don’t count, does it? There was rioting in Westwood as well, probably not far from where you lived.

  58. Haverim, Happy Purim.

  59. Oh wait, senator McCain’s pastor believes that the government has been complicit in plots against blacks in America.

    I wonder if he is racist too?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMaaDbGgsKA

  60. Patrick,

    How dare you to not reveal your full name, phone number, Social Security number, and your address when you first post here on this site :)

  61. The Obvious,

    But wait there is more Clinton won’t deny that she pushed Rev. Wright story :)

    http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/03/clinton-doesnt.html

  62. Obvious dude, that guy is just another televangelist. He isn’t McCain’s “Pastor”… what the hell is wrong with you people, trying to divert a real issue with these bullshit allegations?

    Twosret, I’m still waiting for you to express your opinions of Jeremiah Wright, but all I see you doing is chatting with people in pidgin Arabic. You like to offer your opinions of Christian preacher’s don’t you? Well, here is your chance! You have an opportunity to criticize Obama’s for for real Pastor of the last 20 years, not just some random televangelist who endorsed a candidate but the man who converted Obama to Christianity, baptized his children, and performed his wedding ceremony. What say you?

    How dare you to not reveal your full name, phone number, Social Security number, and your address when you first post here on this site…

    I’m not letting him off the hook for being deceptive about his background, when it was relevant to the discussion, Twosret.

  63. Leo,

    Chag Sameach!!

  64. My god Twosret, he just won’t shut up, I’m really starting to think he’s one of those homeless guys with nothing to do except staring at the computer screen all day long at the library.
    And by the way “perfect English” Craigy it’s “affected” and not “effected”

  65. PS-He mis-stated the religious demographics of America pretty egregiously, and continued to do get it wrong even after I corrected him. It’s pretty hard for a native born American to not know this is a Protestant country. That’s one of the reasons (the other was his claimed expertize about Jordanian Christians) that I asked him if he was Middle-Eastern. He didn’t reply, other than to ridicule me for assuming he was Jordanian. I’m kind of annoyed about that. I’m kind of annoyed about a lot of Patrick’s comments, and his style. What was the point of making me play a guessing game about his background, instead of coming right out with it? The rest of the regulars on this blog are pretty open about such things, especially when challenged.

  66. My god Twosret, he just won’t shut up

    Of course I won’t shut up. Do you normally have success with bullying and abusing people into silence?

    I’m really starting to think he’s one of those homeless guys with nothing to do except staring at the computer screen all day long at the library.

    Yes, well, Twosret could correct you on that. If she wanted to. That’s about the 4th time you’ve accused me of being homeless or on welfare, too. Why don’t you go put your hand in the garbage disposal or something? Isn’t that what cretins like you do for fun?

    And by the way “perfect English” Craigy it’s “affected” and not “effected”

    Actually, it’s not. “Effected” was the correct word, in my usage. But tahnks for the input :P

  67. On February 26, McCain appeared at a campaign rally in Cincinnati with the Reverend Rod Parsley of the World Harvest Church of Columbus, a supersize Pentecostal institution that features a 5,200-seat sanctuary, a television studio (where Parsley tapes a weekly show), and a 122,000-square-foot Ministry Activity Center. That day, a week before the Ohio primary, Parsley praised the Republican presidential front-runner as a “strong, true, consistent conservative.” The endorsement was important for McCain, who at the time was trying to put an end to the lingering challenge from former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee, a favorite among Christian evangelicals. A politically influential figure in Ohio, Parsley could also play a key role in McCain’s effort to win this bellwether state in the general election. McCain, with Parsley by his side at the Cincinnati rally, called the evangelical minister a “spiritual guide.”

    http://www.motherjones.com/washington_dispatch/2008/03/john-mccain-rod-parsley-spiritual-guide.html

    McCain and Parsley, chumming it up:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvjqzc0ZGtI

    BTW, people over the age of 35 shouldn’t use the term “dude”.

  68. So in response to the accusation that you were trivializing the role of Jeremiah Wright by comparing him to random Televangelists who endorsed McCain, you proved a random televangelist endorsed McCain? Wow, that’s good stuff, obvious one!

    By the way, ONLY people over the age of 25 should use the word “dude” because we invented it. Especially the sarcastic version. It’s copyrighted to Sean Penn, I do believe. Who is older than me. Just saying :P

  69. Just to summarize:

    Rudy Giuliani’s priest has been accused in grand jury proceedings of molesting several children and covering up the molestation of others. Giuliani would not disavow him on the campaign trail and still works with him.

    Mitt Romney was part of a church that did not view black Americans as equals and actively discriminated against them. He stayed with that church all the way into his early thirties, until they were finally forced to change their policies to come into compliance with civil rights legislation. Romney never disavowed his church back then or now. He said he was proud of the faith of his fathers.

    Falwell said America had 9/11 coming because we tolerated gays, feminists and liberals. It was our fault. Our chickens had come home to roost, if you will. John McCain proudly received his support and even spoke at his university’s commencement.

    Reverend John Hagee has called the Catholic Church the “Great Whore.” He has said that the Anti-Christ will rise out of the European Union (of course, the Anti-Christ will also be Jewish). He has said all Muslims are trained to kill and will be part of the devil’s army when Armageddon comes (which he hopes is soon). John McCain continues to say he is proud of Reverend Hagee’s endorsement.

    Reverend Rod Parsley believes America was founded to destroy Islam. Reverend Parsley says Islam is an “anti-Christ religion” brought down from a “demon spirit.” Of course, we are in a war against all Muslims, including presumably Muslim-Americans. Buts since Parsley believes this is a Christian nation and that it should be run as a theocracy, he is not very concerned what Muslim-Americans think.

    Just to total up, that’s 4:1.

  70. The only one of your “4″ that has any validity at all is the accusation against Mitt Romney. Seeing as how he’s a Mormon, though, I’m not sure in what way. Mormons believe in all kinds of things that the average American would find pretty objectionable. And your accusation against the Church of Latter-Day Saints goes all the way back to the late 1970s, no? Well, if he’d made the cut it would have been interesting to argue about whether a Mormon should be President. But, he didn’t. And also this charge:

    Mitt Romney was part of a church that did not view black Americans as equals and actively discriminated against them.

    Is pretty sketchy. I’d want a hell of a lot more detail (and evidence) than that before I’d be willing to accuse Mormons of institutionalized racism. I could toss off a one-liner like that about pretty much any organization in America and come up with a justification for it. It wouldn’t mean my accusation was true.

    Why the grasping at straws to try to deflect attention from Jeremiah Wright and his relationship with Obama, though? Pointing fingers at everyones else is always a good tactic when somebody accuses you, isn’t it Obvious one? If Obama tries that, his candidacy is dead. But I suppose as long as he has expendable peons like you to do it for him, he can disavow any knowledge can’t he? That’s what makes him the NEW kind of politician. The one who wants CHANGE. He doesn’t stoop to the same level of dirty politics that everyone else does… *sigh*

  71. PS-

    Just to total up, that’s 4:1.

    No… you made lame accusations against four different people, only one of which is even still in the race. And they were all junk except for one, anyway. Your score as of now is .05 to 1 – and that’s being charitable.

  72. Why the grasping at straws to try to deflect attention from Jeremiah Wright and his relationship with Obama, though? Pointing fingers at everyones else is always a good tactic when somebody accuses you, isn’t it

    Wait, that’s your tactic.

    expendable peons like you

    Personal attack? I thought you don’t go there. No wonder you have Twosret and others attacking you. I’ll take the gentleman way out and avoid stooping to your level.

  73. In …3, 2, 1 Craig will respond.

  74. Wait, that’s your tactic.

    Really? It seems like that’s what you spend all of your time doing here, to me. What is YOUR opinion of Jeremiah Wright? You haven’t said. You’ve just (wrongly) accused others of the same kind misconduct.

    Nice touch “pointing a finger” at me, when I accused you of something by the way! Great job on making your point :P

    Personal attack? I thought you don’t go there.

    I absolutely DO go there, when it comes to people who get abusive with me first. Which you’ve done on a number of occasions. Do you always cry about it when people give you a taste of your own medicine? Maybe you should try a little harder at being civil, then? Just a thought.

    But, just so you know, that wasn’t intended as a personal attack. I do a better job of it than that when I want to get in somebody’s face.

    No wonder you have Twosret and others attacking you. I’ll take the gentleman way out and avoid stooping to your level.

    Yeah. Right. Twosret… and “others”. Like the blatant bigot, Mohamed? :O

    The only reason Twosret is on her “good behavior” right now is because I’ve been getting on her case at every opportunity. I’ll be gone for about a week. Wait and see how long she can hold it in. I give it two days, tops. She doesn’t really have much self control. Of course, since she has moderator status on this blog, she’ll just delete all the most abusive of her own comments and make it look like she’s the victim. As usual.

  75. brooklynjon says:

    Grammar police here.

    Affect, used as a verb, means to change or alter.

    Effect, used as a verb, means to cause.

    The years of smoking AFFECTED Fred’s abillity to run far.

    The years of smoking EFFECTED a reduction in Fred’s ability to run far.

    Thank you. This has been a public service announcement.

  76. The Obvious and Mohamed,

    Welcome to my life :)

  77. Twosret & Obvious,
    Thank god that’s just a blog, imagine if you had to work or if you were this blabbering nightmare’s neighbor, suicide would be a very viable option.
    I bet he recieves more restraining orders a week than capital one offers, right craig? :)

  78. “# twosret Says:
    March 21st, 2008 at 2:14 pm

    The Obvious and Mohamed,

    Welcome to my life :)

    # Mohamed Says:
    March 21st, 2008 at 3:26 pm

    Twosret & Obvious,
    Thank god that’s just a blog, imagine if you had to work or if you were this blabbering nightmare’s neighbor, suicide would be a very viable option.”

    So much drama.

  79. leo,

    Obviously you are enjoying the drama aren’t you? :) otherwise you would have ignored it like I usually do :)

    Mohamed,

    You crack me up :)

  80. “otherwise you would have ignored it like I usually do”

    Mohamed got me worried a bit with his suicidal tendencies.

  81. christina/ohio says:

    Mohamed, don’t ever speak for me again, understand? I’m not exactly sure why you decided to say that to me but you’ve done it to the wrong person. I don’t have to defend myself with someone who know zero about me but let’s just say that you are miles off of the mark! Wish I could show you my wedding photos, you’d see just how wrong you are.

  82. ” Ralph Nader’s my man.”

    Got here a bit late, but this # 17 comment cracked me up!!!

    Nader’s my man!!!

    MWwwwahawahawahahaaaa! Too rich!
    Mohamed lost any and all credibility with that admission. :)

    I don’t mean to be to hard on Mohamed, if he wants to throw his vote away it’s his decision, not mine.

  83. brooklynjon says:

    Tedders,

    It’s never too late to make fun of Ralph Nader!

  84. :)

  85. Jon, sorry for the late reply. I’m challenging your grammar enforcement credentials! Your definitions and usage weer much too simple, and I’m standing by my usage of “effected by” as the correct one!

    http://mw4.m-w.com/dictionary/effected
    http://www.dictionary.net/effected

    1: to cause to come into being2 a: to bring about often by surmounting obstacles : accomplish b: to put into operation
    synonyms see perform
    usage Effect and affect are often confused because of their similar spelling and pronunciation. The verb 2affect usually has to do with pretense . The more common 3affect denotes having an effect or influence . The verb effect goes beyond mere influence; it refers to actual achievement of a final result . The uncommon noun affect, which has a meaning relating to psychology, is also sometimes mistakenly used for the very common effect. In ordinary use, the noun you will want is effect .

    I’m not claiming victims of the LA riots were INFLUENCED by the riots. I’m saying they had an actual end result come about. Observers may have been merely influenced, but not the victims. That’s why I said “directly effected by” = immediate end result for those individuals.

  86. From my examples:

    I couldn’t go to work for a week because the company I worked for decided to close.

    My ex-wife had to delay a trip to China, because she was scheduled to depart from LAX on day 2 of the riots.

    My sister’s employer did decide to stay open, but she didn’t go back to work until the last 2 days of the riot… and when she did go back, she (illegally) carried a handgun with her.

    My sister-in-law couldn’t go to classes for a week, because her University was closed and locked down after rioters attacked students and faculty on the campus.

    Those are not “affects”, they are “effects”.

  87. brooklynjon says:

    Yes, they are “effects” (noun form). The riots AFFECTED your wife’s trip to China. Specifically, the EFFECTED a delay in the trip (i.e. they caused a delay).

    EFFECT as a noun means essentially the same thing as RESULT. EFFECT as a verb means essentially the same thing as CAUSE. It is a common cause of confusion.

    And I agree…riots suck.

  88. brooklynjon says:

    Should read:

    Specifically, they EFFECTED a delay in the trip (i.e. they caused a delay).

  89. Jon, “effected” does not mean “caused”. Cause and effect are two different words with two different meanings. And the verb form does not have a different basic meaning from the noun form.

    The verb affect usually has to do with pretense . The more common affect denotes having an effect or influence . The verb effect goes beyond mere influence; it refers to actual achievement of a final result .

    EFFECT as a noun means essentially the same thing as RESULT. EFFECT as a verb means essentially the same thing as CAUSE.

    I don’t really agree with your short foirm definitions, but if I did, I would argue that the verb form of a synonym for EFFECT (EFFECTED) would be RESULT (RESULTED). Not cause/caused. But, you see that neither works as a synonym, right? There aren’t any one word synonyms for the effect. It requires a more complex definition than that.

    Jon: Specifically, they EFFECTED a delay in the trip (i.e. they caused a delay).

    They RESULTED IN a delay :P

    And the riots RESULTED IN disruptions of many people’s lives.

    We’re arguing semantics here, but I’m standing by my usage. You can say “affected” if you wish, and I’ll continue saying “effected” because in my opinion affected just doesn’t work, under the circumstances. The meaning is wrong.

  90. BJ, I do agree that “caused” can sometimes be used interchangeably with the word “effected” – especially in your field, which is probably why you consider them to be synonyms. But there are many other usages where the two words aren’t interchangeable at all, and an attempt to swap them out will result in an unintelligible sentence. Which is why I don’t like simple one word definitions, except in the rare cases where two words really do have identical meanings :)

    And I also agree riots suck. Especially race riots. And I say that even though I got arrested for rioting in Japan, once :O

  91. “arrested for rioting in Japan”

    Were you a Marine then or civilian? What’s the story here? :)

  92. Were you a Marine then or civilian? What’s the story here? :)

    I was a Marine, of course! And a drunken one, too. But other than that, I’m not telling :P

  93. Well, ……. a drunken Marine is still a pretty good story! At least I don’t remember reading about it in the news!!!! LOL

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