Let's all celebrate the Nakba

First of all, I would like to note that I have nothing but love and respect to Hossam at arabawy, despite our political ..ehh…..yeah, let's just call them differences. Sure the differences only seems to intensify after his trip to the US and his stay in Berkley, but that's his deal and his journey, and I honestly can't spout off on that. 

I can, however, make fun all I want with the crazy array of characters that he seems to broadcast on his blog. The guy has managed to show-off every Yahoo-activist there is in freakin Berkley, which is AMAZING, considering how it's the job for those who don't have one over there. But I am not going to make fun of those either. Instead, I will choose to make fun of those who participated in the Nakba anniversary concert, for it seems to have unearthed that rare breed of Hip-hop Palestinian/palestinian rights artists, such as Patriarch and the P-Stine RYDERS , or the I-can-t-believe-an-Egyptian-could-be-so-lame DJ EMANcipation (get it, Eman..Emancipation? She is so clever). They are all wearing authentic palestinian Hip-Hop gear, which has to include a "Resistance" T-shirt and a Palestinian Kuffeyah.

Now, if we ignore the lameness of the artists (P-STINE Ryders? P-STINE????), we will come along to the real issue that I find all of this very fascinating and eye-opening. As I watched the pictures, as I surveyed the artists, one question kept popping in my mind: Are they actually celebrating the Nakba? For reals?

Now, if you can manage to avoid your distaste for the concept of celebrating the national catastrophe of palestinians, I would like to inform you of the good news: The Nakba is on its way to become a national palestinian Holiday, just like Passover became one for the jews. I mean, think about it, how long after the exodus, and after the 40 years of being lost in the desert, did Passover become a national jewish holiday with its own designated food? It must've started with the same spirit of this Nakba concert: as a way to commemorate a painful collective memory. This means that in like 10 years of such Nakba celebration, chances are someone will invent a Nakba meal, made exclusively of Palestinian dishes, and it will become a tradition of sorts, to eventually sprout its own line of Nakba greeting cards. The day will come where we will meet the Palestinians at our workplaces and schools and wish them a happy Nakba face to face, or give them the probably expensive Nakba cards that Hallmark will probably designate an entire division for. It will be great!  

And when this happens, please, don't forget the Pioneers who turned the Nakba from a day of mourning to a day of celebration: The P-Stine Ryders, DJ EMANcipation and the entire crew of Nakba at 60 concert. Without their tireless efforts, we wouldn't probably have Nakba candy ("Tastes delicious, just like Zionist blood") in 30 years. But remember, when it happens, you've heard it here first!

0 comment on Let's all celebrate the Nakba

  1. Shalom
    May 25, 2008 at 5:30 pm

    I recently saw an article quoting George Antonius, apologist for Palestinians and author of The Arab Awakening, as writing in 1938 the following:

    “The year 1920 has an evil name in Arab annals: it is referred to as the Year of the Catastrophe (Am al-Nakba). It saw the first armed risings that occurred in protest against the post-War settlement imposed by the Allies on the Arab countries. In that year, serious outbreaks took place in Syria, Palestine, and Iraq.” — The Arab Awakening, page 312

    It seems that the use of the term “Naqba”, even in print, predates the foundation of the State of Israel, and was apparently co-opted by today’s Palestinians to refer to that event.

    Rest of article at http://www.jewishpress.com/displayContent_new.cfm?contentid=31503&mode=a&contentname=How_%27Nakba%27_Proves_There%27s_No_Palestinian_Nation&recnum=0&fromsect=5

    (Of course the JP is not an unbiased source either, but I don’t see them making up a book quote out of whole cloth when it could so easily be verified.)

    Reply
  2. leo
    May 26, 2008 at 12:10 am

    What is the date nakba falls on?

    May be Israelis and Palestinians could celebrate their holidays together?

    Reply
  3. Egypeter
    May 26, 2008 at 12:58 am

    Your such a wannabe-Zionist Sandmonkey. I got inside information that you banged Israeli women in Sinai and travelled to Israel. I guess you know if your condom broke your offspring would be a full blown Jew. is that why you act like your pubic hairs don’t stink. Always mocking what Israeli’s mock?

    This post is not snarky, it is outright delusional.
    You and your Atlas foundation friends.

    You are just dull baby…

    Reply
  4. CarpetCaptain
    May 26, 2008 at 1:21 am

    Egypete: You should’ve said something earlier about banging Israeli chicks being a faux pas. By the way when’s the best time to visit Israel?

    Reply
  5. George
    May 26, 2008 at 2:04 am

    I am curious, when they talk about Nakba in Egypt, do they ever mention the fact that it occurred during a war started by arabs where the publicly stated intention was to “drive the jews into the sea”.

    And if it is mentioned, how is it justified/rationalized? (by that I mean complaining about the failure to commit genocide)

    Or do they just not teach this part. (hell, they don’t even mention it on the BBC)

    Reply
  6. tedders
    May 26, 2008 at 2:45 am

    “it occurred during a war started by arabs where the publicly stated intention was to “drive the jews into the sea”.

    No George, that’s verboten to mention. Can’t have logic and rationality change ones views can we? (sarcasm mode off)

    The Germans lost much much more land and resources and they never whimpered because they understand the consequences of starting and loosing a war. 60 years later they got back the lions share of what they lost. Somehow the Palestinians haven’t learned anything from history.

    Reply
  7. George
    May 26, 2008 at 2:58 am

    I must be honest, I see the Arab position as irrational, or at least, devoid of the golden rule of reciprocity (ie, you cannot kick out 99% of the jews in the Arab world and then demand Israel take in refugees from wars that they themselves started to destroy israel).

    But I wonder, do they see the Jewish/Israeli position as irrational or lacking the golden rule?

    One side must be.

    Reply
  8. Twosret
    May 26, 2008 at 3:54 am

    Kan youm eswad youm ma geet.

    Reply
  9. godot basha
    May 26, 2008 at 10:01 am

    Hater.
    Marking the ‘Nakba’ is alright bud, just like there’s a Holocaust day, I’m sure the Tora hymns are not meant in a celebratory manner. As for kids picking bad aliases, touche…

    dance to the beat to the rythem of the nile :)

    Reply
  10. Andrew Brehm
    May 26, 2008 at 12:11 pm

    Do the celebrations in any way address the fact that Arab states called on Palestinian Arabs to leave:

    The Jordan daily Falastin wrote on 19 February 1949: “The Arab States which had encouraged the Palestine Arabs to leave their homes temporarily in order to be out of the way of the Arab invasion armies, have failed to keep their promises to help these refugees.” (I hope the quote is true.)

    And do the celebrations in any way address the fact that the Israeli government begged the Palestinian Arabs to stay and defend the country?

    Reply
  11. Andrew Brehm
    May 26, 2008 at 12:17 pm

    “Marking the ‘Nakba’ is alright bud, just like there’s a Holocaust day”

    Yes, but the Holocaust day does not blame the Jews.

    A “Nakba day” would be fabulous, but it should remind us of the facts, not ideological fantasy.

    The reason to have such memorial days is to avoid the same thing happening again. But in order for this to work, we have to remember what happened, not some fantasy.

    Remembering that Israel expelled a few hundred thousand Arabs won’t help anybody.

    But remembering that Arab states called on Palestinian Arabs to leave Israel and remembering how the mayor of Haifa begged the Arabs of Haifa to stay and defend the city would help.

    It will remind Jews that they cannot trust their Arab neighbours to help them when they are under attack, and it will remind Palestinian Arabs that the Arab countries say a lot but never do anything to help.

    I propose two memorial days:

    A Naqba day to remind us of the above and a Sephardim day to remind us of the Jewish refugees from Arab countries. Perhaps they could be combined.

    There were more Jewish refugees than Arab refugees but I think we can view both events as equally important.

    Reply
  12. godot basha
    May 26, 2008 at 1:05 pm

    Clearly Andrew, holocaust day doesnt blame the Jews. The reason behind the holocaist example is not who the blame is under but to illustrate an occasion of sad memorial. Dolt. I will not argue any further on this forum, if you cannot comprehend a simple analogy, there is no need to waste energy on more complicated matters.

    Reply
  13. Andrew Brehm
    May 26, 2008 at 1:35 pm

    Godot,

    “to illustrate an occasion of sad memorial”

    Precisely. And that is why I described what a Nakba Day should be like.

    Why are you calling me a “dolt” for making the same point as you?

    I understood the analogy, I just happened to dig into it a bit.

    Holocaust Day and Naqba Day should both be true to what really happened.

    But if you want a Naqba Day to remind people of a fantasy, something that never happened just to have a focal point for some anti-Semites to cry about, I think it is you who is the dolt.

    Reply
  14. George
    May 26, 2008 at 2:55 pm

    “A Naqba day to remind us of the above and a Sephardim day to remind us of the Jewish refugees from Arab countries. Perhaps they could be combined.”

    That is one of the best ideas I have ever heard.

    Reply
  15. Andrew Brehm
    May 26, 2008 at 4:51 pm

    “That is one of the best ideas I have ever heard.”

    Thanks.

    Reply
  16. EgyPeter
    May 26, 2008 at 6:07 pm

    ***The asshole imposter at #4 obviously isn’t the real ‘EgyPeter’

    It’s funny when I’m scanning comments and I run across my own name with an outlandish and ignorant comment that I never wrote…

    The real EgyPeter isn’t an Israeli hater but definitely is a Fundie hater…you all know that, though :)

    Reply
  17. twosret
    May 26, 2008 at 6:08 pm

    SM,

    So if the Palestinians blow themselves up you call them terrorist. If they fight for their rights you blame them for their misery and hail Israel. If they demonstrate in peace you don’t mention the peaceful demonstration God forbid you find one good thing about a Palestinian in this world.

    Now if they use music to get together in a festival they are losers.

    Amazing and genuis it is really worth bringing up your love to Palestinians on every occasion.

    Keep going but your post won’t change the facts of the nakba nor does it will erase the Israeli terrorism against innocents.

    Let us just wish that many people will use music for sad events rather than war and bombs.

    Sorry habibi you really asked for it this time :)

    Reply
  18. twosret
    May 26, 2008 at 6:09 pm

    Egypeter,

    I had to scratch my head reading the #4 one I thought it was sarcastic or I didn’t understand it :)

    Pathetic

    Reply
  19. LouLou
    May 26, 2008 at 6:29 pm

    Andrew,

    You have illustrated the disconnect between the Arab/Israeli view of Nakba to perfection.

    First of all, I have personally met a number of Palestinian refugees – some of whom are at present integrated into other countries and have no wish to go back incidentally. The reason their parents left was simple. They were civilians fleeing a war zone. There had been reports from neighboring villages of attacks by Hagana and Stern gangs and massacres against Palestinians. There were refugees from these other villages who told stories that scared everyone else. And some decided to leave because they saw others fleeing and they panicked. Some people decided to stay and risk it. Others were simply not risk-takers. They were unarmed and they got scared for themselves and their families. That is their memory of events.

    Some of them were wealthy enough to build a life for themselves in neighboring countries. Everyone accepts you when have money. Others had relatives in other countries who made it easier for them to settle and build a new life. The majority- who weren’t so lucky – ended up in the camps.

    Every war produces refugees btw. It’s hardly unusual for civilians to evacuate a war zone. And it’s hardly unusual for them to expect that they can go home when hostilities end.

    I have put the grand conspiracy theory about how they left as part of some grand genocidal conspiracy theory to all of them. And most of them thought it was funny that so much political mythology has been built on what seemed to them like the natural thing to do based on what they knew at the time – get their families out of harm’s way. Then again, those are the ones who got lucky. The Palestinians in the camps probably wouldn’t see the funny side as clearly.

    As for Arab Jews expelled from other countries, that argument is really wasted on the Palestinians because why should a Palestinian hand over his house key to an Iraqi or Morrocan Jew expelled by the government of Iraq or Morroco? Why shouldn’t Iraqi or Morrocan Jews take up their grievances with those powerful governments that actually expelled them and not with defenceless Palestinian civilians who really had no hand in any of it?

    A Palestinian friend keeps telling how confused she gets when people cite the actions of governments of Arab countries or the actions of Nazi Germany as a reason why a Russian Jew who’d never even been in Palestine was more entitled to her grandparent’s old home than they were when they were born there and had lived there for generations. She certainly has no wish to go back to such a hate-filled land but she still doesn’t get the logic because after all she’s no more Iraqi or Morrocan than she’s German and neither were her grandparents.

    I am personally not enchanted with the way successive Palestinian leaderships have conducted themselves in this conflict, or with their culture of victimhood. And I agree that they have squandered many chances for peace and self-determination, not to mention embroiling themselves in many historical conflicts that destabilized neighboring countries and continue to destablize the whole region.

    Having said that, I really don’t see how this historical conflict can ever be resolved if there is no acknowledgement of the fact that when 700,000 civilians are forcibly dispossessed and denied access not only to their historical homeland but to their families and communities and privately owned possessions and real estate, this is an injustice that should recognized and addressed. Yes, I understand that it’s not realistic that all Palestinian refugees be allowed to return because other innocent civilians live there now or were born there and have rights too. I see how a just settlement has to recognize the rights of both sides. I see that there can be no absolute solutions here.

    What I don’t see is how, whatever the eventual settlement is, ordinary Palestinians can ever accept it if it is based on the premise that it is their own fault they happened to exist on a piece of land somebody else wanted or that they left because they thought their children were about to be slaughtered.

    Reading some of the comments here made me realize why it is so hard for Palestinians and Israelis to listen to each other. I mean, if this is the Zionist narrative than how can a Palestinian who was actually there and had a very different personal experience ever trust or believe anything from those whose version of events differs so much from that personal memory?

    Reply
  20. Israeli Mom
    May 26, 2008 at 6:39 pm

    It is strange to turn the Naqba day into a day of celebrations. Are you sure that’s the term those artists picked? I am not into Hip-Hop culture myself, so I won’t comment on the names of the band and DJ, but it’s possible that they had an event that used music to commemorate the Naqba in a respectful way?

    I spent the Naqba Day this year, along with a group of Jews and Arabs in Israel, in an event that was supposed to combine the Israeli Memorial Day (in remembrance of fallen soldiers) along with the Naqba Day. While it was a bit unbalanced, IMO, I thought the idea as a whole was good.

    Reply
  21. Mohamed
    May 26, 2008 at 7:22 pm

    Loulou,
    Thanks a lot for reading my mind before hand and saving me the time before I write almost exactly what you wrote, but you’re definitely more articulate, unfortunately it would definitely fall on deaf ears, given the nature of the sick bastards who comprise the majority of the readers here.
    Only one thing, about the Palestinians leaving their homes to escape the massacres committed by the Hagganah and Palmakh and Stern to ethnically cleanse Palestine to establish a jewish majority , a fact described for forty years by Israeli apologists as pure Palestinian propaganda, and that they only left on the orders of the invading arabs as that Brehm guy states above, unfortunately the Israeli government archives came to light in 1988 stating that in fact ethnic cleansing took place and was a systematic tool to establish that majority, a fact not disputed by serious Israeli historians including right wingers like Bennie Morris, although he of course gives justification for the massacres. His justification, a barbaric and medieval one but still a justification and acknowledgment of what took place, was that there was no way a jewish state could be established with a population made of a Palestinian majority, makes absolute sense, otherwise why weren’t they allowed to return back?
    Unfortunately, that only buys time for Israel, as in fifty years, the Palestinians (1948 ones, West Bank and Gaza not included) will become the majority again, unless of course the Palestinians give the Likudists and the Kahanists and the Shas’ and the Kach’s an excuse to ethnically cleanse them again, to maintain the jewish majority. A lot of heart break and pain for no reason whatsoever.

    Reply
  22. Roman Kalik
    May 26, 2008 at 8:30 pm

    Mohamed, bullshit. And had you actually read Morris (and about Morris for that matter) you would have realized that he’s been far from being a right-winger throughout most of his life, and that he himself states on several occasions that he found no orders of ethnic cleansing – he bases his thesis on claiming that it was an “agreement without words” in the Haganah chain of command.

    Further claims of your ignorance (other than being unfamiliar with these archives you discuss, for that matter) is the fact that you didn’t even realize that Kach and Kahanists are one and the same. Funny business, that. But nevermind, to you it shall forever remain true that the poor Palestinians were escaping the bloodbaths of the evil right-wing Zionists. And that’s all she wrote. Never you mind that the Irgun didn’t even exist until after the Hebron Massacre of 1929 (the event was the reason for its creation by dissidents who didn’t accept the path of just obeying the British laws, as was taken by the Jewish community leadership).

    LouLou, I don’t think the refugees were part of any conspiracy, but frankly… imagine being a Jew living in Palestine back then. Imagine hearing the war reports on the radio, and having nowhere to run, because you’ve already run *here* as it is – it’s where you feel at Home, with a capital H. Imagine seeing people around you go and find shelter in the countries that are *attacking* you, countries and armies that said quite publicly that they have no intention of letting you, the Jew, build a country here. Or even live, for that matter.

    Imagine how you would think of people who were granted safe passage to enemy lands. People who were afraid, yes, afraid because what they often heard was the rumors very aptly spread by the very people invading the country. Many of the refugees left before the actual fighting even started – which was a good decision from the practical sense, but wasn’t likely to be taken kindly by someone who had nowhere left to run.

    Oh, and while you’re at it… imagine being shot at by some of those who decided to stay, because those who decided to stay formed about a million armed militias (which often fought each other) that saw you, the Jew of Palestine, as an outsider – and thus the only target they could actually agree on.

    And now, you ask of that Jew to let the refugees go back? Who gave them the right, the Jew would say? They left him, the Jew of Palestine, to die. Telling him that the refugees running away didn’t give him a second thought wouldn’t do much to placate him. As far as *he* was concerned, he shed his blood for the land, and had every right to tell the people who left him to die to go fuck themselves, because *he* couldn’t trust them anymore, not after seeing them granted free passage to enemy states, not after the armed gangs. If they sought refuge in enemy states, that Jew of Palestine would say, they could damn well stay there. He would much rather help Druze who force-recruited into the Syrian army to build villages up north, because those were people he could actually understand and trust.

    That was the sentiment in postwar Israel, on the eve of its foundation. Now you go and tell that Jew that he should really be ashamed of himself. Go ahead. Some of the old-timers are still alive, after all. You can still go and tell them. Maybe you can explain to them that they should really, really trust people – because they were just trying to save themselves from the war, see.

    Maybe you can explain to him why they, the refugees, lived, while his friends and family had to die. And why this means that he has to risk his newly-built country so that another million armed gangs could fill his streets in the *next* war, and that he’d then watch his Arab neighbors go and run to hide among the invaders again, or shoot him.

    And this, in a nutshell, explains why Israeli Jews today are just as unamused by the whole “return of the refugees” concept as they were immediately after the end of the War for Independence.

    Reply
  23. Mohamed
    May 26, 2008 at 9:52 pm

    Roman,
    Life’s too short to read your entire gigantic manifesto knowing beforehand how craptastic it would be, I’ve tried anyway, but I couldn’t go on after the second paragraph,realizing the usual level of pettiness people like you reach when they don’t have a valid argument, anyway, not to outdo you in pettiness, Kach was found by Kahana, Kahanists are his crazy followers or those who’d agree with his Nazi views and who are not necessarily members of Kahana Khay, so what I was trying to do dumb ass is to lump all of the right wing and ultra nationalist religious nut jobs together with their common shared views.

    Reply
  24. tedders
    May 27, 2008 at 12:59 am

    Hey Mohamed, do you ever mention the fact that Palestinians were escaping during a war started by arabs where the publicly stated intention was to “drive the jews into the sea? Just curious what your thoughts are on that.

    Reply
  25. Solomon2
    May 27, 2008 at 1:21 am

    Mohamed, Roman wrote a pretty short blurb. For a longer, more comprehensive one I recommend The Arabs of Palestine, an article denouncing the “Mad Hatterisms” that have now become standard “Nakba” issue. (The article was published in The Atlantic magazine in 1961.)

    Reply
  26. leo
    May 27, 2008 at 1:59 am

    LouLou and Roman Kalik make very powerful arguments.

    Reality is, it does not matter.

    Palestinians discredited themselves on more than one occasion and not only with Jews. Nobody wants them. Nobody. The sooner Palestinians will understand it the better for them.

    PS. Mohamed, was it short enough for you?

    Reply
  27. Twosret
    May 27, 2008 at 2:34 am

    tedders,

    Howdy buddy long time no hear. What do you know about Naqba for you to say what you said on #26.

    Mohamed,

    I couldn’t stop laughing reading Andrew saying that Nakba is a fantasy, it is like calling the holocaust a fantasy. Can you imagine that? I also laugh at how they are so much against Palestinians when every president and prime minister in Israel have left with corruption and scandal. They worry so much about sandmonkey and his country and not worried at all about their corrupt leaders.

    I feel the same like you, I’m saving my key strokes because it is the same shit but different day with posters here (not all of them of course) that will deny any Palestinian rights. I have been through that for almost three years and there is no end to it.

    A bunch of zionist with nothing to do but to live 24/7 on an Egyptian blog to justify terror and killing of innocents.

    Reply
  28. tedders
    May 27, 2008 at 3:27 am

    Howdy Twos!!

    It has been too long, I’ll try to email you tomorrow. I’ve got a small surprise for you! I
    ‘ll be at a jobsite for a few hours, then I’ll make time.

    Reply
  29. Mohamed
    May 27, 2008 at 3:45 am

    Terrific Leo, thanks a lot for being so considerate, but the only conclusion I could come up with after reading it, is that you’re trying to say that the Palestinians are doomed just for being Palestinians, just for being born, like mice, roaches, spiders and snakes, hell, no body wants those either. You didn’t even give them a choice to live anywhere “Nobody wants them. Nobody.” So, what’s your suggested solution? For them just to disappear? Just to collectively die in silence? Am I misinterpreting you somehow?
    Twosret,
    Yeah, I’ve been asking myself the same question too, what makes a bunch of crazy “Kahanists” ( right? Roman :) ) and Likudists hang around all day long reading a crazy Egyptian’s blog (Sorry monkey, that’s the mildest I could put it), maybe it just makes them feel good and gives them some sense of justification . But the bigger question is, and also to be fair, what the hell are you and me doing reading and commenting on this blog too :) .

    Reply
  30. leo
    May 27, 2008 at 4:20 am

    Mohamed,

    Leo: “Nobody wants them. Nobody.”

    First of all let me ask you, is assertion above incorrect? If so, please give example to the contrary.

    “So, what’s your suggested solution? For them just to disappear? Just to collectively die in silence? Am I misinterpreting you somehow?”

    Are you trying to shoot the messenger? Oh, and yes. You are misinterpreting me somehow.

    I am not smart enough to know what Palestinians are to do to improve their situation but I am smart enough to know that their current methods are not working (for 60 year now). In fact result is just the opposite. And longer it will last, the less they will get.

    Reply
  31. LouLou
    May 27, 2008 at 4:38 am

    I think we can all agree that it’s a good thing that one’s right to life isn’t linked to one’s popularity really.

    Yes, we’re all more than a little tired of Palestinians at the moment. It may not be 100% fair because the truth is, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is too useful for too many regional players. They have no interest in seeing it resolved. Quite the contrary infact.

    And over the last 60 years, most of these regional players have opted to protect their interest in the conflict by infiltrating the Palestinian leadership, creating yet another armed faction which corresponds to the agenda belonging to an external benefactor rather than the Palestinian people.

    This has contributed largely to the fact that the Palestinians are a leaderless people today.

    Most of the blame has to lie with Palestinians themselves for being too easily divided and manipulated. But not only with them.

    Reply
  32. Twosret
    May 27, 2008 at 5:51 am

    Mohamed,

    Me oh I’m just a fantasy I never wrote on this blog before :)

    Teddy,

    I’m thinking you got the stairs going is that the surprise?

    Reply
  33. Twosret
    May 27, 2008 at 6:11 am

    “Palestinians discredited themselves on more than one occasion and not only with Jews. Nobody wants them. Nobody. The sooner Palestinians will understand it the better for them.”

    Really? I can easily say that about Israel in the M.E. and among all muslims in the world. Nobody wants the Israelis nobody. Isn’t that what you and your likes cry when the clown in Iran thinks you shouldn’t exist.

    Hypocrite!

    Wanna play the numbers game. Even if you add the 300 Americans to your side still the Arabs and Muslim will exceed that by far.

    What a moronic logic.

    Reply
  34. Twosret
    May 27, 2008 at 6:23 am

    The Drama on #24 is a masterpiece. Imagine just imagine that the displaced people of Palestine were saying no to Jews building a country on their land that they lived on for ages.

    The fantasy and Imagination is high tonight.

    Reply
  35. Egypeter
    May 27, 2008 at 7:10 am

    For one, I say we hunt down ALL LIVING relatives of the Stern Gang, The hagganah squads etc. add infinitum. Just as the Imperial Zionists Intruders did to X Nazi SS officers. I am sure it will be atypically easy to get funding from rich Arabs, such as those who fund terrorism. Your typical Arab citizen hates Israel for the actions i am about to describe in the next paragraph, so therefore there will be shit loads of contributions.

    The fantasy that the Arabs started the war is beyond seriously delusional, overlooking the fact that these Jewish terrorist death squads on a holy mission had started the war by going around killing all Arabs that were not Jewish.

    Thirdly I think it is great that “M”monkey is such an ugly guy that has to resort to drastic measures to acquire any pussy, hence his very effective approach to getting some good old Zionist putang. I mean cuz it is in a good Jewish girls creed to need and breed. He can be a Muslim terrorist but her offspring will still be a son of Canaan Jew. Jewish girls do it for God and country, influence, to spawn supporters by any means necessary etc. So good for you “M” I mean if you are so hard up you don’t really care.

    Fourthly. I support Israel 100%. Thank God they are in existence doing what they are doing because I never could understand why the hell everyone hates them so much and I almost believed the stories of innocent holocaust slaughter, but with what they are doing now and what haganah and Howard Stern gang did. It all makes sense how only an ingrate could turn from oppressed to oppressor so damn quick. Hence explaining the whole hate the lost twisted (by Satan no doubt) tribe of Israel, or at least whats left of there descendents that havent accepted Christ already and have been eternally saved. Fuck, even accepting Islam is better that being a fascist squealing whiner Zionist fuck.

    Fifth, Hitler was part of God’s plan to let the lost tribe (PAY ATTENTION TO THE WORD LOST) tribe OF ISRAEL find their so called forfeited holy land, in order to draw out the Messiah.

    END GAME

    Reply
  36. leo
    May 27, 2008 at 11:31 am

    Twosret @ 34,

    “Really? I can easily say that about Israel in the M.E. and among all muslims in the world. Nobody wants the Israelis nobody. Isn’t that what you and your likes cry when the clown in Iran thinks you shouldn’t exist.”

    Be it as it may how does it change situation Palestinians are in?
    Besides, Israelis can afford not to care about what you think of them. Can Palestinians?

    Reply
  37. Xylo
    May 27, 2008 at 1:42 pm

    Twosret;

    Really? I can easily say that about Israel in the M.E. and among all muslims in the world. Nobody wants the Israelis nobody

    Ironically, with Muslim perpetuated terrorism frequently in the news, the same could be said of non-Muslim attitudes toward Muslims.

    Reply
  38. Toady
    May 27, 2008 at 1:47 pm

    The Arabs were hardly the only people to see land lost to foreigners during the wars of the last century. Other people lost a lot more territory than they did (see a map before and after the world wars). Rather than pander to hypernationalist prejudices, the governments and populations concerned have agreed that what was lost was unrecoverable, and the best way forward was to reconcile and make peace with former enemies, rather than continue with irrendentist claims that lead to a self-defeating and endless state of conflict. The millions of refugees created by those wars were resettled in new places, and they and their descendants granted citizenship, not left in camps for generations for propaganda purposes.

    Nor do the various governments, six decades later, demand a right of return for their descendants to the second, third, and fourth generation.

    There’s a lesson to be learnt here.

    Reply
  39. EgyPeter
    May 27, 2008 at 3:27 pm

    Again #36 ain’t me.

    I’m not sure why the coward that keeps using my moniker persists. I did not write #36.

    That anti-semitic asshole isn’t so tough and brave…why don’t you stop hiding?!

    Reply
  40. EgyPeter
    May 27, 2008 at 3:30 pm

    And all this talk of who’s land is who’s….

    It’s strange how I never hear a peep about all the land the Egyptians lost to the Arabs in the 7th century…but then I guess that doesn’t count because it hasn’t happened in the last century.

    Reply
  41. Egypeter
    May 27, 2008 at 3:47 pm

    @ 39, BULLSHIT! Arabs didnt lose land in a war, they were unjustly pushed off of it. when instigated to fight back, shit for brains like you claim that it was fairly lost in a war.

    Sorry to burst your bubble but this fact is not true.

    Yes Egypt conceded to the existence of Israel, which in fact did cause it heaps of problems, but for all Arabs to concede to stolen land that was lost in a calculated genocide is not an option to the majority of the Arabs.

    It’s no big deal really, Israel can keep the land. Because as I said, I support Israel 100%. Thank God they are in existence doing what they are doing because I never could understand why the hell everyone hates them so much and I almost believed the stories of innocent holocaust slaughter, but with what they are doing now in Israel and what Haganah and Howard Stern gang did. It all makes sense how only an ingrate could turn from oppressed to oppressor so damn quick. Hence explaining the whole hate filled history of the mob of celestial ingrates of the tribe of Israel, or at least whats left of there descendants that havent accepted Christ already and been eternally saved. Even accepting Islam would be better that being a fascist squealing whining lying Zionist.

    See comment 36.

    The war was instigated by the criminal gangs, x-Holocaust Hitler camp survivor thugs and were labelled as terrorists the world throughout. Until that is a few stand up Jews dug deep into their pockets and turn popular opinion in their favor. Just like I wish some righteous Christians or Muslims would do to stop this [non Orthodox Jewish plunder]. Jews have been hated, deal with it, dont invent that it is alright to go against your creed and kill innocent people that just happen to be living on land that was your fore fathers that you had never seen before. Yet you tell Palestinians to accept that. So why don’t you all accept that it is wrong and you are hated. Just live with it instead of maiming and killing, duh. You God fearing bunch of ingrates.

    Yes I am a fundie hater, but I have had enough of your crap Snitch-monkey “M” screw you too.

    You Zionist wannabe ,,, precious,,,,,,

    Reply
  42. EgyPeter
    May 27, 2008 at 3:52 pm

    Hey shithead above me…I use a capital “P” in my name. If you’re gonna post under my name, at least copy it properly you dumbfuck!!

    Reply
  43. Egypeter
    May 27, 2008 at 3:59 pm

    Again, I swear the above commentor is not me.

    although, fine, I do agree that the fantasy that the Arabs started the war is beyond seriously delusional, overlooking the fact that Jewish terrorist death squads on a holy mission had started the war by going around killing all Arabs that were not Jewish.

    I don’t know about hunting down ALL LIVING relatives of the Stern Gang, The Hagganah squads etc. add infinitum. Just as the Imperial Zionists Intruders did to X Nazi SS officers. I am sure it will be atypically easy to get funding from rich Arabs, such as those who fund terrorism. Your typical Arab citizen hates Israel so therefore there will be shit loads of contributions.

    The only problem is they are all in Israel and when one does happen to get killed in a random retaliation suicide attack, the Israeli government keeps it secret so the Palestinians and 99% of Arabs worldwide don’t rejoice and intensify there retaliatory efforts.

    Stop impersonating me you coward!

    Reply
  44. not-my-real-name
    May 27, 2008 at 4:20 pm

    EgyPeter,

    Do not worry. We understand it is not you. Capital ‘P’ or not.

    Try thinking who did you piss off recently and try comparing set of mind and writing style. Or better yet. Do not bother. Ignorance is the best weapon here.

    Reply
  45. EgyPeter
    May 27, 2008 at 4:44 pm

    Thanks #46 :)

    I’ll let him enjoy my name, it was pretty clever I thought…

    And anybody that knows me would know that I would NEVER EVER refer to myself as an ‘Arab’ – as I am only Egyptian. You would also know that I utterly abhor the ridiculous notion of Pan-Arabism, all together. And, much like our host, I like Jews, even Israelis (actually will be visiting Sharm/Israel this summer)

    I think that qualifies me as slightly different from the fake slim shady – I’m the real slim shady, damn it! :)

    Reply
  46. Ajay Peter, you can find me on facebook
    May 27, 2008 at 5:01 pm

    46 & 47

    Tea-yaz-kom hamra mote!

    I also agree that the fantasy that the Arabs started the war is beyond seriously delusional, overlooking the fact that Jewish terrorist death squads on a holy mission had started the war by going around killing all Arabs that were not Jewish.

    Only difference is…

    I do believe in Israeli like justice and hunting down ALL LIVING relatives of the Stern Gang, The Hagganah squads etc. add infinitum. Just as the Imperial Zionists Intruders did to X Nazi SS officers. I am sure it will be atypically easy to get funding from rich Arabs, such as those who fund terrorism. Your typical Arab citizen hates Israel so therefore there will be shit loads of contributions.

    The only problem is they are all in Israel and when one does happen to get killed in a random retaliation suicide attack, the Israeli government keeps it secret so the Palestinians and 99% of Arabs worldwide don’t rejoice and intensify there retaliatory efforts.

    The war was instigated by the criminal gangs, x-Holocaust Hitler camp survivor thugs and were labelled as terrorists the world throughout. Until that is a few stand up Jews dug deep into their pockets and turn popular opinion in their favor. Just like I wish some righteous Christians or Muslims would do to stop this [non Orthodox Jewish plunder]. Jews have been hated, deal with it, dont invent that it is alright to go against your creed and kill innocent people that just happen to be living on land that was your fore fathers that you had never seen before. Yet you tell Palestinians to accept that. So why don’t you all accept that it is wrong and you are hated. Just live with it instead of maiming and killing, duh. You God fearing bunch of ingrates.

    Yes I am a fundie hater but that doesnt mean I condone cut throat slithering tactics of a bunch of deranged ex concentration camp thugs who commit murder and are catapulted into God like stature.

    Reply
  47. Twosret
    May 27, 2008 at 5:16 pm

    Egypeter,

    You are not the only Egyptian Peter you know :)

    Reply
  48. Twosret
    May 27, 2008 at 5:18 pm

    ooops! Ajay peter post is gone :)

    Reply
  49. MaGdee
    May 27, 2008 at 5:31 pm

    “It’s strange how I never hear a peep about all the land the Egyptians lost to the Arabs in the 7th century…but then I guess that doesn’t count because it hasn’t happened in the last century.”

    I’m not an Arab Nationalist or a fuckin’ Islamist but for the sake historical accuracy, let me clear that Egyptians didn’t lose any lands to Arabs… simply because Egyptians didn’t own any lands it was all part of the Byzantine Empire! And in fact Heraclius the Byzantine Emperor wasn’t so fond of the Copts and prosecuted them due to some Christian theological difference they had at that time! which made the naive oppressed Egyptians at that time welcome their nomadic invaders with a glimpse of hope of liberation remind you of what??… well its a fact that was recorded in both Coptic and Islamic books!

    The Egyptian map till this day owes those Arab expansionists who annexxed parts of Nubia, parts of the Lybian desert and Sinai. In comparison to the Byzantine Egypt which had geographical space that looked as if it suffered a severe case of anorexia! Another fact Muslims rule brought Egypt’s position back as a force in the region instead of being the fruit basket and the slave provider of the Byzantines. The Fatimid and Ayyubid Egypt brought back memories in terms of science, military and space to the glory days of the ancient Egyptian empire… a thing that never happened since Christianity entered Egypt and the destruction of the old Egyptian religions. And if Muhammed Ali (not the boxer) had his way Egypt would’ve been the size of the United States alas the Ottomans, Brits and Frogs conspired against him.

    And to end up your pitiful comparison… so many Palestinians still own deeds,keys to lands and houses they owned in Historical Palestine and was taken by Israeli force, the children of the people who were killed in 1948 still live till that day… so yeah a thing that happened in last century is more vivid than a thing supposedly happened in the 7th century… we still remember the Holocaust and shed tears over of innocent Jews who died last century or don’t you do that? you must be an antisemite!

    Reply
  50. EgyPeter
    May 27, 2008 at 6:35 pm

    Yes, the imposter has been eliminated. Thanks monkey.

    MaGdee – Thanks for the history lesson but you’ve made a few glaring mistakes.

    “Egyptians didn’t lose any land to the Arabs?” You sure about that one? They didn’t move Egypt’s capital from Alexandria to modern day Cairo and call it Fustat? Why don’t you double check your sources on that one!

    And you also claim that the Egyptians living in Egypt didn’t own the land they were living on, or something of the sort, because it was Constantinople that had dominion over Egypt? Just as the Persians did a few decades prior to the Arab Invasion. And what about when Caesar annexed Egypt for Rome, did Egyptians cease to “own” the land they were living on?

    And the native Egyptians “welcoming” their invaders that many Egyptian Muslims love to claim has been historically disputed, but even if they did you fail to mention the subsequent Egyptian revolts in the 7th and 8th century that were totally crushed by the Arabs…shorty after the “welcoming” party. Arab sources seem to be oddly silent on the matter.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquest_of_Egypt

    The Muslims were assisted by some Copts, who found the Muslims more tolerant than the Byzantines, and of these some turned to Islam. In return for a tribute of money and food for the troops of occupation, the Christian inhabitants of Egypt were excused from military service and left free in the observance of their religion and the administration of their affairs. Others sided with the Byzantines, hoping that they would provide a defense against the Arab invaders.[2]

    After the negotiated surrender, taxes were raised to a level which the Egyptians found unbearable, notably during the Umayyad era. Nevertheless, during Amr’s lifetime the churches and people were not subjected to further assaults and were left in peace:

    On the twentieth of Maskaram Theodore and all his troops and officers [the Byzantines] set out and proceeded to the island of Cyprus, and abandoned the city of Alexandria. And thereupon ‘Amr the chief of the Moslem made his entry without effort into the city of Alexandria. And the inhabitants received him with respect; for they were in great tribulation and affliction… And ‘Amr became stronger every day in every field of his activity. And he exacted the taxes which had been determined upon, but he took none of the property of the churches, and he committed no act of spoliation or plunder, and he preserved them throughout all his days. … And he increased the taxes to the extent of twenty-two batr of gold till all the people hid themselves owing to the greatness of the tribulation, and could not find the wherewithal to pay…. And none could recount the mourning and lamentation which took place in that city: they even gave their children in exchange for the great sums which they had to pay monthly. And they had none to help them, and God destroyed their hopes, and delivered the Christians into the hands of their enemies. The Chronicle of John, Bishop of Nikiu Chapters CXX-CXXI

    The Arab rulers remained in control of the country from this point until 1517, when it became part of the Ottoman Empire.”

    The Jizya decimated Egypt! Here, you will also find many Egyptians excusing the practice of extorition/blood money…”Oh, we pay Zakat so non-Muslims must pay Jizya, it’s only fair.” Right. And what did the non-Muslims get in return for submission? Treatment as a dhimmi.

    “The Fatimid and Ayyubid Egypt brought back memories in terms of science, military and space to the glory days of the ancient Egyptian empire”

    “Glory days of the ancient Egyptian empire??” Your equivocating the Ancient Egyptians with the likes of the lunatic Fatimid Caliph Al Hakim bi Amr Allah??

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Hakim_bi-Amr_Allah

    Here’s a snippet:

    “His eccentric character, the inconsistencies and radical shifts in his conduct and policies, the extreme austerity of his personal life, the vindictive and sanguinary ruthlessness of his dealing with the highest officials of his government coupled with an obsession to suppress all signs of corruption and immorality in public life, his persecution of the Christians culminating in the destruction of the Church of the Resurrection in Jerusalem, his deification by a group of extremist Isma’li missionaries who became the forerunners and founders of the Druze religion, [which] all combine to contrast his reign sharply with that of any of his predecessors and successors and indeed of any Muslim ruler. … The question is to what extent his conduct can be explained as rationally motivated and conditioned by the circumstances rather than as the inscrutable workings of an insane mind.”[1]”

    Yep, just like Ramses II!! Many of the Arab rulers of Egypt weren’t too different from the craziest of the Roman Emperors a thousand years earlier…just no one knows it, it’s all in Arabic.

    Reply
  51. Loulou
    May 27, 2008 at 6:36 pm

    I thought the comparison with Egyptian land lost to Arabs was very interesting. Not very accurate though. The implication would be that everyone living in Egypt today is an Arab and all real Egyptians were driven out of Egypt are now refugees living in the diaspora. Which would be news to most Egyptians I’m sure. )

    Egyptians are among the most fiercely nationalist people I ever met. If anyone had tried to drive them out of their historical homeland I don’t doubt we’d be hearing about it everyday!

    Reply
  52. EgyPeter
    May 27, 2008 at 6:54 pm

    Well I guess the 1948 equivalent would be Jews moving to Palestine and forcing all the Arabs to convert to Judaism, pay a tax, or die.

    Reply
  53. Twosret
    May 27, 2008 at 7:31 pm

    Egypeter,

    The Palestinian problem is not about religion it is about land. Before Egypt was Copt it was something else. i.e. the Pharoah’s must feel the same way about Copts like how Copts feel about Muslims. 20% of Egyptians are Christian Copts so obviously Egyptians could still be Christian and live in their land.

    I think the topic on hand has nothing to do with religion except for the fact that the right wing Zionists terrorists who committed their crimes used their religion to Justify their acts. Not unheard of really all religions are hijacked by terrorists and criminals. The crusaders did it, and the current extreme fund. muslim does it.

    I always wonder why the Palestinian cause triggers your thoughts about the Copts in Egypt. I don’t know how

    Reply
  54. leo
    May 27, 2008 at 7:39 pm

    “I always wonder why the Palestinian cause triggers your thoughts about the Copts in Egypt.”

    Actually, Zionist cause triggers it. As it does with Assyrians or with Kurds for example. I’d say peoples of ME are slowly waking up and rising up against colonialists.

    Reply
  55. Twosret
    May 27, 2008 at 7:48 pm

    leo and your name now is Egypeter? speaking on his behalf and thinking that the Zionist cause is the reason why Egypeter is talking bout the history of Christians in Egypt?

    Colonialists? like who? America invading Iraq? or Israel invading Palestinian lands and builduing illegal settlements for 60 years?

    Hypocrisy of democracy indeed

    Reply
  56. Twosret
    May 27, 2008 at 7:50 pm

    Being born and raised in Egypt I never felt for a second neither did my family or friends that our land is invaded by anyone.

    This discussion is going too far for sure.

    Reply
  57. EgyPeter
    May 27, 2008 at 8:09 pm

    Two – You seem to be mixing up names in that first paragraph to me. I think you meant before Egypt was “Christian.”

    And then you claim that Pharaohs probably felt the same way about early Christianity that 7th century Egyptian Christians felt about Arab Conquests of Egypt. You should know that the story is much deeper than that, two.
    Christianity came into Egypt as a PERSECUTED religion under Roman Alexandria. There were no armies of Christians on horseback that marched on Egypt and occupied and controlled the country. It’s the exact opposite. Christianity somehow flourished in Egypt under the Roman swords of Diocletian, Septimus Severus, Carracala and others until Constantine finally stopped the state sponsored slaughter of Christians – of which Alexandrians were chief. Egyptian paganism gradually died out, twosret.

    And my stance on the Israeli-Pali issue is quite clear. Two state solution living side by side in peace…somehow. As to the issues of Jerusalem, refugees and all that other stuff…it’s their deal to figure out. Good luck, but I’m neither Palestinian nor Israeli…and most certainly not an Arab.

    Reply
  58. EgyPeter
    May 27, 2008 at 8:26 pm

    “This discussion is going too far for sure.”

    No, it’s not. I’m provoking a legitimate point – one that I’m sure is probably hated by most unenlightened Egyptians. I’m sorry if the truth hurts.

    What does it all mean? Am I crazy? Am I calling for revolution?? Am I calling for intifada? NO! All I’m calling for is for Egyptian Muslims to treat Egyptian Christians as EQUAL partners in their own country, with ZERO regard to Faith! Obviously, I’m not referring to all Egyptian Muslims as SM kindly illustrates, but we all know that there is a serious lack of tolerance and enlightenment in Egypt these days and it has been getting progressively worse over the last 5 decades, especially the last 2.

    That’s my cause, twosret. An Egyptian cause! Egypt can’t wipe its own ass these days let alone solve all of the alleged “Arab” world’s problems. I’m waiting for Egypt to get its own house in order.

    Reply
  59. MaGdee
    May 27, 2008 at 8:42 pm

    Egypeter,

    I didn’t want to put a full history lesson in my comment as it’s much longer and boring, but I thought when I said “naive Egyptians” (not native btw) it gave away my perception of the true intentions of the nomadic invaders. I didn’t deny any Coptic prosecution (including paying Gizya) through different Islamic dynasty till this day especially during Fatmid mad tryannt Al-Hakim be-Amr Allah but it still didn’t refute my point that Fatmid dynasty was a prosperous one for Egypt… and don’t forget that according to many Judeo-Christian historians agree that Ramses the great was the evil Pharoah who enslaved and prosecuted Jews and kicked Moses ass into the desert… still real historians celeberate his greatness! You’re praising Ramses II …. again are you antisemite??? :)

    No one can factually deny that Islamic Egypt contribution to history and the world was far more greater than the Christian well up until the Ottoman invasion although my intention was not to make a comparison between Christian and Islamic Egypt in this comment… I presonally prefer pagan Egypt!

    ““Egyptians didn’t lose any land to the Arabs?” You sure about that one? They didn’t move Egypt’s capital from Alexandria to modern day Cairo and call it Fustat? Why don’t you double check your sources on that one!””

    I triple checked my sources and still don’t understand on what grounds are you’re refuting… I’m pretty sure Egyptians didn’t own the land you claim that Arabs took! They were mostly slaves to the Greco-Romans with exception of few clerical positions… and the modern Capital of Egypt Fustat was built by Arabs on the ruins the Babylon fortress… meaning it’s still inside Egypt it’s not like they moved it to Mecca!!! You say Egyptians “welcoming” invaders is historically disputed… nothing new here everything is disputed in history according to either facts or intentions … even in religious matter whether the Red Sea split into two halves, the divinty of Christ or the prophetic nature of Mohammed… you just pick what “facts” suits you better.. we all do! and we wipe our asses with the rest of history for the sake of making an argumentative stand. :)

    Reply
  60. Twosret
    May 27, 2008 at 9:02 pm

    Egypeter,

    I am still not understanding why the Muslim Christian problem is taking over the comment section when it is about Nakba. The topic on hand is about Nakba of the Palestinians and has nothing to do with the Christian problems in Egypt.

    I was trying to find the link between the two topics and why are you talking about a totally different topic.

    Where do you see in the topic on hand any referral for Egyptians to fix the Arab world and not worry about it ‘s own.

    The Orthodox faith is one of the oldest richest and greatest in my opinion but it has nothing to do with the Palestinian losing their lands that is all.

    You can pick any cause you wish the world is ours and I respect you for it.

    Reply
  61. MaGdee
    May 27, 2008 at 9:12 pm

    “Actually, Zionist cause triggers it. As it does with Assyrians or with Kurds for example. I’d say peoples of ME are slowly waking up and rising up against colonialists”

    Now I would somehow understand what’s a Kurdish or Coptic or Assyrians cause simply because those are ethnic or semi-ethnic groups of people but wtf is a Zionist cause!!! a bunch of Polish, Russian Ukrainian and German Jews remembered that God 4000 years ago promised them a land in the Middle East and they wanted it while holding the old testament text as a claim receipt. Imagine I’m an Egyptian follower of Dagda the Celtic God and there are so many Egyptians like me who are also followers of Dagda and other Lybians, Syrians we should make an Middle Eastern Celticists movement and claim the entire land of Northern Ireland from Britain as it was promised by Dagda in the Celtic scripts and as our Celtic religion ancestors wanted or resort UN resloution to divide tha land between those Irish Christians…. I don’t think the Irish would be happy about but to hell with it…. that’s exactly the Zionist cause!

    Reply
  62. Twosret
    May 27, 2008 at 9:17 pm

    MaGdee,

    You would think that in 2008 people would learn from history especailly any holocaust survivor will be the first to stand against what is currently happening on the Palestinian lands. The wall and hate is almost the same scenario but different date.

    Sad very sad.

    Reply
  63. EgyPeter
    May 27, 2008 at 9:28 pm

    “No one can factually deny that Islamic Egypt contribution to history and the world was far more greater than the Christian well up until the Ottoman invasion”

    Is that right? Well, I can sure as hell can deny it! Have you ever heard of the Nicene Creed? Do you know who wrote it? Have you ever heard of monasticism? Do you know which country invented that? How about the first Christian Theological school in the world, do you know which city that was started in? Do you know anything of the contributions of the Desert Fathers to Christian (not just Coptic Orthodox) doctrine?

    If you did, then you would probably reconsider your idiotic statement. I’m guessing you’ve been educated in the Egyptian school system…

    “…although my intention was not to make a comparison between Christian and Islamic Egypt in this comment… I presonally prefer pagan Egypt!”

    Yeah? Not me. I prefer a multicultural, multi-faith Egypt…where people aren’t hated for their religion, whether it be Christianity, Bahai’i or paganism.

    Reply
  64. EgyPeter
    May 27, 2008 at 9:58 pm

    You got rid of WHOOOOOO?

    It is so vile and pathetic reading the rambles of screwed up wannabe supremacists.

    How can one even talk with a bunch of low life fake intellectuals who dare to even converse with people who claim Israel has one little bit of a right to exist.

    if they had kept there 3% of land that they bought then yes, I would be the first to go and fight for their rights, but since they murdered a lot of people, even though it is in the bible that they will return, I do not believe they are the ones mentioned in the bible nor will i support them.

    Monkey, TABA again next month, casino Royale baby

    Mwua

    Reply
  65. EgyPeter
    May 27, 2008 at 10:02 pm

    It’s funny monkey how you never mentioned how you were in Taba just days before the explosions.

    You didnt have anything to do with it did you?

    Is that why you kept it totally secret, you were worried that you might be questioned with a stick in your ass from the anti-terrorist investigators?

    Shine some light, but don’t deny it, 2 megapixels don’t lie!

    Reply
  66. Twosret
    May 27, 2008 at 10:05 pm

    Ya ibni aa’ib mosh kedda :)

    Reply
  67. EgyPeter
    May 27, 2008 at 10:08 pm

    There ya go! You capitalized the “P” this time!!

    Reply
  68. MaGdee
    May 27, 2008 at 11:53 pm

    TWOOOOO,

    I posted a Hello message on the other thread but I guess it was deleted or something. How are you?? I really miss you… here we are after what .. 3 years and from all the places… the monkey blog :D

    Reply
  69. Twosret
    May 28, 2008 at 12:42 am

    MaGdee,

    I couldn’t believe my eyes seeing your name MaGdee it cracks me up I knew for sure it was you :) oh gone are the days or Rosetta Stone I miss the good old days.

    How is life treating you? please stay in touch my e-mail is still the same twosret@yahoo.com

    Reply
  70. MaGdee
    May 28, 2008 at 1:23 am

    “Is that right? Well, I can sure as hell can deny it! Have you ever heard of the Nicene Creed? ……..

    If you did, then you would probably reconsider your idiotic statement. I’m guessing you’ve been educated in the Egyptian school system…”

    easy don’t take it personally… but to answer you to I wasn’t talking about theological or religious or spiritual contribution to a certain faith, I referring more to Military, Science and Medicine, I could go like the man introduced the concept of Gnosis into Islam the basis of Sufism was an Egyptian… did it matter do you care? honsetly I don’t either. But for the heck of it let’s add what you just said above… STILL we reach the same point of the superiority of the Islamic era over the Christian era it doesn’t even jerk the scale a tad bit… so of course I will not reconisder my very objective statment. You guessed it right… I’ve was educated in the an Egyptian School System till the preparatory stage… in a Catholic Coptic School to be precise… oh the irony :) but ask any non-Christian or even many Chrstians from any school system around the world about the “Nicene Creed” and they will either think its a heavy metal band or give you a WTH expression unless they googled it before!

    “Yeah? Not me. I prefer a multicultural, multi-faith Egypt…where people aren’t hated for their religion, whether it be Christianity, Bahai’i or paganism.”

    Before you start singing “We are the world”… you do know that I was talking about “Egyptian history” when I said I prefer the Pagan era … you know history as in things that happened in the past! But as for the Future yeah I also prefer it multicultural, multi-faith, a technicolor Egypt :) where people aren’t hated for their beliefs, whether they are Muslims, Christians, Jews, Bahaiis, Atheists hell even Satanists… can we hold hands now? :D

    Reply
  71. EgyPeter
    May 28, 2008 at 2:20 am

    “You guessed it right… I’ve was educated in the an Egyptian School System till the preparatory stage… in a Catholic Coptic School to be precise… oh the irony”

    -There’s no irony in that. If I wanted a half decent education in Egypt that would be my choice too!

    “but to answer you to I wasn’t talking about theological or religious or spiritual contribution to a certain faith, I referring more to Military, Science and Medicine,”

    - Yeah? Can you tell me of these great Egyptian achievements during the Arab era? Egypt became a vassal state to wherever the capital of the caliphate moved to. Egypt was pillaged of all its food stores and resources and this is evident by the constant famine that Egyptians suffered through in the Middle Ages. So can you tell me of these great Egyptian accomplishments during these times…

    “I could go like the man introduced the concept of Gnosis into Islam the basis of Sufism was an Egyptian… did it matter do you care?”

    -Right. Cuz those two are equivalent….(total sarcasm)

    “but ask any non-Christian or even many Chrstians from any school system around the world about the “Nicene Creed” and they will either think its a heavy metal band or give you a WTH expression unless they googled it before!”

    -Well, thanks for showing me your intellect! And you couldn’t be more profoundly wrong with that statement! Any half-decent student of History would know WTH I’m talking about…

    **BUT, I do share the sentiment of your last paragraph!! And you’re right, I think it’s extremely important to know the truths of the past…lest we be doomed to repeat mistakes that we should have learned from. This seems to be a recurring problem in Egypt these days. But at heart, I’m ultimately a pragmatist and I would love to see a more sensible Egypt. So yes, we can hold hands :)

    Reply
  72. Twosret
    May 28, 2008 at 2:49 am

    “Well, thanks for showing me your intellect! And you couldn’t be more profoundly wrong with that statement! Any half-decent student of History would know WTH I’m talking about…”

    I would bet $100 that if you ask this question to a high school student in any State and I mean any State in the US that 1 student will know WTH you are talking about.

    :)

    Reply
  73. PeeWeeHurtEm
    May 28, 2008 at 2:53 am

    Bunch of Masonic biggots!

    Reply
  74. EgyPeter
    May 28, 2008 at 3:20 am

    Ok. Fine. Maybe “half decent ‘Historian’” would be better. Certainly someone who knows that an Egyptian introduced the concept of Gnosis into Islam should know what I was referring to.

    And why pick on U.S. students, two? Our friend MaGdee, who I assume is POST high school, didn’t even know until he “googled” it. Lousy example and you’re showing your disdain for the U.S. I mean, c’mon, let’s not compare the two Educational systems…

    Reply
  75. masonicbiggot
    May 28, 2008 at 3:40 am

    Masonic biggotry at its best

    Reply
  76. Twosret
    May 28, 2008 at 3:40 am

    disdain for the U.S.? Why pick on U.S. because I live here and my children go to school here and I did study in the U.S. and I’m impressed not by the level of education children get in public schools espcially when it comes to math, science, history, and Geography and the lack of international exposure that creates ignorance and lack of understanding to different cultures.

    Are we going to go back to the same old story that anyone who criticize anything in the US is not patriotic enough for your taste?

    Jay Leno has great examples on his show “jay walking” asking college students basic questions and you should hear for yourself the answers.

    Maybe you need to start looking positively to my comments and think I want the education system to be better in the US rather than be negative about my comments.

    Reply
  77. Twosret
    May 28, 2008 at 4:05 am

    Mohamed,

    I forgot to tell you that if it were not for the Caucus, the huffington post, america blog etc….. I would have gone insane on SM blog :)

    Reply
  78. EgyPeter
    May 28, 2008 at 4:19 am

    Two, I’ve seen Jay Walking. And I think it’s hilarious.

    Can’t help but wonder the responses Jay Leno would get asking the same questions to Sa’aida from Upper Egypt…if 40% of all Egyptians are illiterate, I wonder what the numbers are there…

    We just both have to accept we lie on opposite sides of the political spectrum. God bless you, you’re entitled to believe whatever you like. It’s just difficult for me to relate to some of your views as a fellow Egyptian living in the diaspora, that’s all.

    Reply
  79. EgyPeter
    May 28, 2008 at 4:36 am

    And I don’t think you hate America. And I don’t even think that you are necessarily unpatriotic….I just think you’re mostly a Democrat :)

    Reply
  80. MaGdee
    May 28, 2008 at 12:24 pm

    “-There’s no irony in that. If I wanted a half decent education in Egypt that would be my choice too!”

    Sorry to disappoint here again but that notion would be true 80 years ago but if you want a half decent education in Egypt your choice should be a British school system that was built by the petrodollars of the Egyptian gulf exiles and not Catholic ones.

    “Yeah? Can you tell me of these great Egyptian achievements during the Arab era? Egypt became a vassal state to wherever the capital of the caliphate moved to. Egypt was pillaged of all its food stores and resources and this is evident by the constant famine that Egyptians suffered through in the Middle Ages. So can you tell me of these great Egyptian accomplishments during these times… ”

    I would tell you but there won’t be enough space here to gather it all. And frankly I don’t feel like getting into this sort of dick fights! which is bigger mine or yours… it doesn’t even suit a pseudo-intellectual like yourself who gets his knowledge from the wikiworld! but anyway I do know that mine is bigger :D

    “Right. Cuz those two are equivalent….(total sarcasm)”

    Again I wasn’t making a comparative example in terms of importance or influence but its more of an example of the subject relativity and man you need to work on your sarcastic skills!

    “Well, thanks for showing me your intellect! And you couldn’t be more profoundly wrong with that statement! Any half-decent student of History would know WTH I’m talking about”

    And your assumptions couldn’t be more wrong than your evaluation of matters! Did I ever say that I don’t know about the Nicene Creed? But you retracted your statement, first it was Egyptian school system, then half-decent student History, now its any half-decent historian next time it will be any half-decent Professor of Christian Theology :)

    “So yes, we can hold hands ”

    just for the sake of prgamatism… you don’t really like me from your heart :(

    Reply
  81. Risa
    May 28, 2008 at 12:39 pm

    Twosret;

    I wonder why the Palestinian issue triggers such outrage in the ME while Saddam’s murder of some 300,000 people barely registers.

    The scale of the both issues is hardly comparable.

    Reply
  82. Twosret
    May 28, 2008 at 12:45 pm

    Egypeter,

    The only difference between Sa’iada and the people on jay walking is that Sa’iada have the ability to make fun of themselves like most Egyptians and they don’t think they are the best people in the world :) they pretty much know where they stand. Unlike some people in Cut and Shoot in Texas :) yes there is a city called cut and shoot in Texas they fight like Bulls and pull their guns if you mess with them hehehehee.

    I thought you were interested in Egypt’s best interest and the in house problems of Egypt now you are making fun of your Sa’aida. Bad Egypeter ;)
    oops! I forgot Christian-Muslim problem is the main problem you need to address in Egypt :)

    You think I am a democrat you are mistaken :) but it is funny to see a republican pointing at a democrat these days lol

    Reply
  83. Twosret
    May 28, 2008 at 1:08 pm

    MaGdee,

    I can’t believe he is messing with Sa’ida. Can you believe it?

    Reply
  84. EgyPeter
    May 28, 2008 at 3:42 pm

    This IS my ultimate problem with Egypt.

    http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=26141

    I’m sure Justice will NOT be served…and if they are apprehended, I’m sure they will be ruled clinically “insane” within minutes and then released…same story, different day in good ‘ol Egypt.

    Reply
  85. MaGdee
    May 28, 2008 at 4:43 pm

    “I can’t believe he is messing with Sa’ida. Can you believe it?”

    lol ya two I thought he was too multiculturised to be using the illiterate Sa’idi stereotype in his examples… but then again you mess with Sa3ida and you end up with a naboot… where exactly… depends on how big is your mess :D

    Reply
  86. tedders
    May 28, 2008 at 6:56 pm

    EgyPeter I’ve heard the same type of stories from am Coptic Christian gentleman that I build buildings for. The stories he told are nearly exactly the same except for the type of business and the number murdered, the murderer’s were never prosecuted by the way. It’s the reason he and his family left Egypt and came to America.

    Reply
  87. tedders
    May 28, 2008 at 7:03 pm

    Hey Twos!! You forgot these Texas town doozies!!

    Bacon, TX
    Bangs, TX
    Bean Station, TX
    Ben Bolt, TX
    Ben Franklin, TX
    Ben Hur, TX
    Best, TX
    Bigfoot, TX
    Blackjack, TX
    Blanket, TX
    Bushland, TX
    Camelot, TX
    Canadian, TX
    Cash, TX
    Castroville, TX
    Cee Vee, TX
    China, TX
    China Grove, TX
    China Grove, TX (yes two of ‘um)
    Chocolate Bayou, TX
    Comfort, TX
    Converse, TX
    Cost, TX
    Coy City, TX
    Cut and Shoot, TX
    Cuthand, TX
    Deadwood, TX
    Ding Dong, TX (my favorite, yeah, I’m from Ding Ding!
    Dime Box, TX
    Dilley, TX
    Dinero, TX
    Direct, TX
    Doss, TX
    Dozier, TX
    Dripping Springs, TX
    Earth, TX
    Echo, TX
    Egypt, TX (just so SM, Twos, EgyPeter and the rest know!!)
    Energy, TX
    Fairy, TX (don’t think to many people admit their from here LOL)
    Fink, TX
    Flat, TX
    Fred, TX
    Friendship, TX
    Grapevine, TX
    Grow, TX
    Gun Barrel City, TX
    Happy, TX
    Honey Island, TX
    Hoop and Holler, TX (as good as Cut and Shoot!)
    Humble, TX
    Lawn, TX
    Lazbuddie, TX
    Little Hope, TX (where depressed people go!)
    Lolita, TX
    Looneyville, TX (must be where my inlaws are from!! :))
    Lovelady, TX
    Marathon, TX
    Midkiff, TX
    Moss Hill, TX
    Muleshoe, TX
    Nacogdoches, TX
    Needmore, TX
    Needville, TX
    Noodle, TX
    Notrees, TX
    Oatmeal, TX
    Old Glory, TX
    Paint Rock, TX
    Pep, TX
    Petty, TX
    Pointblank, TX
    Progress, TX
    Quail, TX
    Rankin, TX
    RingGold, TX
    Rosebud, TX
    Royalty, TX
    Skidmore, TX
    Schertz, TX
    Smiley, TX
    Sour Lake, TX
    Spur, TX
    Study Butte, TX
    Sugarland, TX
    Sweetwater, TX
    Tarzan, TX
    Telegraph, TX
    Telephone, TX
    Tigertown, TX
    Tiki Island, TX
    Trophy Club, TX
    Turkey, TX
    Tuxedo, TX
    Twitty, TX
    Uncertain, TX
    Valentine, TX
    Veribest, TX
    Waxahatchie, TX
    West, TX
    Wink, TX
    Zunkerville, TX
    We all got a little Texan in us!!

    Reply
  88. Solomon2
    May 28, 2008 at 7:31 pm

    You would think that in 2008 people would learn from history especailly any holocaust survivor will be the first to stand against what is currently happening on the Palestinian lands.

    What is currently happening “on the Palestinian lands” is that any Arab who dares take a pro-Israeli view of history is executed without trial as a collaborator. We must therefore remember that when Arabs angrily assert “their” version of history they lack the opportunity to assert otherwise and survive, and thus cannot be treated as intellectual equals. Arabs elsewhere are subject to peer pressure and social stigma that affects them in their shame-based tribal-oriented society to a far greater extent than others, so they also share this selective history affliction, though the extent is usuaully less.

    Reply
  89. EgyPeter
    May 28, 2008 at 7:57 pm

    Hey tedders – I don’t live too far Cairo, IL and Lebanon, IL. Actually, check out this link about “Little Egypt” and how southern Illinois, like Egypt, was the bread basket of Illinois….really cool.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Egypt_%28region%29

    There’s a Karnak, IL!!!

    It’s really sad when people are forced to leave their homeland. Come to my church and I’ll introduce you to a hundred of these stories.

    Reply
  90. PeeWeHurtem
    May 28, 2008 at 8:06 pm

    Hey Ajay, EgyPeter, Coptmitzva – BLOW ME!

    SUMMAC

    Reply
  91. Twosret
    May 28, 2008 at 8:23 pm

    MaGdee,

    I’m afraid I have to contact my Sa’aida relatives in Egypt to correct Egypeter they will travel with their trucks and shooma all the way to the US to prove otherwise heheheheee

    Tell me a Saa’idi joke when you have one please :)

    Reply
  92. Twosret
    May 28, 2008 at 8:24 pm

    Teddy,

    Tarazan and Needmore crack me up man :)

    Reply
  93. Twosret
    May 28, 2008 at 8:26 pm

    “It’s really sad when people are forced to leave their homeland. Come to my church and I’ll introduce you to a hundred of these stories.”

    Finally Egypeter get the topic clear it is about people forced to leave their homeland :)

    Reply
  94. tedders
    May 28, 2008 at 10:35 pm

    “Tarazan and Needmore crack me up man”

    Hehe, there’s Tarzan but where’s Jane?

    I’m not sure if you meant to but what you wrote was: Needmore crack!!! :)

    I’m cracking up now!!! :) :) :)

    Reply
  95. Mike Nargizian
    May 29, 2008 at 7:07 am

    In 1929 when the supposed Grandfather – not – of Arafat began riling up the Arab street there causing pogroms in Hebron and Jerusalem one of the things he did was reinstitutionalize the grand importance of the Mosques on the Mount. For the hundred years prior and up through 1967 while still in Arab control the Mosques and hill were in very poor condition and not even considered of any significant importance.
    Today they are now “the 3rd holiest site in Islam”…
    Today the Palestinian TV is now changing the supposed wall of flight to the same wall Jews pray at… thus in 20 years that will be complete as well…

    So an Arab holiday… celebrating the “Nabka”…. England will be the first country forced to make it a national holiday – of course since the kuffars still actually teach kids (though not Muslims not to “offend them”) about the Holocaust…. Since Islamic fundamentalists and radicals are growing in England more than any other country in the world by most estimates.

    Reply
  96. Mohamed
    May 29, 2008 at 7:37 am

    Twosret,
    My favorite is Kieth Olberman, he was brilliant today in choosing Dunkin Donuts as the worst person in the world after they capitulated to the Michel Maulkin creature and took off an ad with Rachel Ray wearing a kuffeyah that looked Palestinian.

    Reply

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