Obama and AIPAC

Me and Lisa on Gchat!

Lisa: i'm watching Obama. he gives good speech.

5:46 PM me: yes

he is very well spoken

:P

5:47 PM Lisa: mccain's wife gives me the creeps

she's so blonde and toothy

and tightly wound

me: u hate her cause she is pretty

5:48 PM admit it

:P

Lisa: nah

me: she is rich

pretty

Lisa: i'm not that type

5:49 PM me: and has access to percesetts

Lisa: oh god, he is drooling over aipac. i want to vomit

5:52 PM

me: hehe

lol

5:53 PM Lisa: his first speech as the dem nominee has to be to aipac??

me: yes

Lisa: god, this is going to feed into the walt mearsheimer tinfoil hat wearing crowd

me: nahh

cause no one believes it

they just think he is doing it to get elected

everyone knows the blacks hate the Jews

:P

5:54 PM Lisa: he just reminded them of the jewish involvement in freedom summer

me: then again, who doesn't?

5:56 PM Lisa: the BBC announcer just said "jewish lobby in the united states" instead of "israel lobby"

they do it all the time and no-one calls them on it

most AIPAC people are Christians, for heaven's sake

me: lol

yeah

5:57 PM but the jews pay them to join

Lisa: geez, you are part of the conspiracy, aren't you?

0 comment on Obama and AIPAC

  1. Mo the #1st
    June 5, 2008 at 10:00 am

    Whatever…due…are you tryna de-panty her too?

    She might be emotionally unavailable too though…

    Reply
  2. Israeli Mom
    June 5, 2008 at 12:09 pm

    Funny, like most Israelis, I am pretty much oblivious to the lobby working “in my name” in Washington. More often than not, I find myself arguing with so called supporters of Israel – they are way way too right-winged for my own taste.

    Reply
  3. franchie
    June 5, 2008 at 1:13 pm

    Israeli Mom, you might be right, I am afraid

    Reply
  4. EgyPeter
    June 5, 2008 at 3:02 pm

    OT:

    SM, did you hear about the new child laws that the government is trying to pass? Sounds like it’s looong over due but of course the good ‘ol Ikhwa, defenders of all that is right, are opposed to it!

    http://www.dailystaregypt.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=14205

    “Participants also expressed their disapproval of the possibility that a parent could be sent to jail for beating their child, saying that this is the basis of a proper upbringing according to Islamic texts and the sayings of the Prophet.

    As for FGM, the MB agrees to limiting and regulating FGM procedures in Egypt but not criminalizing it and sentencing anyone found guilty of conducting an FGM procedure to a prison term, because it’s a matter of choice that goes back to the family.

    Participants were also furious with the article stipulating the registration of an illegitimate child under the mother’s name if the father is not present. “It will only open the doors to fornication,” said Askar.

    Furthermore, Askar alleged that the NCCM receives foreign funding which obliges it to follow foreign laws and policies.

    “I have personally seen documents while we were reviewing the budgets for national councils which prove that the [NCCM] receives funding from abroad,” he explained.”

    Foreign funding?? LOL. ALL of Egypt is ‘foreign funded.’ I wonder if this stupid bitch objects to the 2 billion in ‘foreign funds’ that come from the U.S. Sadly this is the discourse that we’re having in Egypt! Unbelievable, no?!

    Reply
  5. alexander
    June 5, 2008 at 3:58 pm

    Obama and Clinton both gave extraordinary speeches which made people’s hearts here sink – even when everyone accepts it’s part of the ‘rite of passage’.

    But I hate the way Israelis always ‘will’ get something while the Ayrabs always ‘must’ do something. And the word ‘expect’ is always used towards the Palestinians. The language is subtle and, yes, ultimately depressing. And it’s always language that seems, to me at least, to publicly polarise and deepen conflict rather than set out to quietly resolve it.

    Reply
  6. Ahuva
    June 5, 2008 at 4:11 pm

    Alexander, it’s interesting seeing this from the other side. I always thought that it was Israel doing something (like, say, withdrawing from Gaza) and not getting anything except more rockets. Or opening the crossings only to have Hamas (or related groups under Hamas control) attack the crossings forcing them to close.

    Reply
  7. Xylo
    June 5, 2008 at 4:48 pm

    ALexander;

    The Israelis gave up Gaza and look what happened. The Palestinians have also received more aid per capita then any other people in the world and they still remain poor because of all the theft and corruption.

    It is quite reasonable to ‘expect’ them to reform their self destructive habits if they want to progress.

    Reply
  8. Red Tulips
    June 5, 2008 at 10:49 pm

    Hi Sandmonkey!

    Below is my analysis of the speech, which I posted on Sudanese Thinker’s board:

    Firstly, the Israeli government is not set on dividing Jerusalem. The leftist government of Olmert has said Jerusalem is on the table to be negotiated, but they are not saying Jerusalem is not the capital of Israel.

    Secondly, every US presidential candidate speaks of moving the embassy to Jerusalem. Every single one. And none have done it. It’s nice of Obama to say such things, but I see no reason to believe he means it, given none of the other candidates have meant what they said.

    Thirdly, Obama spoke of having an active hand in the ‘negotiation’ process, which is usually a bad sign for Israel. Ideally, the US government will not interfere with the sovereignty of the Israeli government. But again, every US president appears to not care so much about Israeli sovereignty.

    Overall, more of the same. Obama only shocked people because they expected him to say some overtly bad things, which he did not say.

    But in any case, why should this speech matter? Okay, he said nice things…and? A speech is meaningless. I like to see action. Where is Obama’s legislative record? He is an unknown, whose only real legislative record is to vote against declaring the Revolutionary Guard a terror group. His associations are with Carter-philes. (Brzezinski, Malley, Powers) Then of course is his Rashid Khalidi association.

    The bottom line: I see no reason why I should believe Obama will be ‘good’ for Israel. Whether he will or would be worse than Bush remains to be seen.

    Reply
  9. Regallo
    June 5, 2008 at 11:02 pm

    You are like “hehe I am totally screwed that I dont even care anymore” , and she is like ” as responsible American I must cry”.

    Reply
  10. tedders
    June 5, 2008 at 11:30 pm

    ” But again, every US president appears to not care so much about Israeli sovereignty.”

    Say what?

    “Obama only shocked people because they expected him to say some overtly bad things, which he did not say.”

    Not so much shock as you might think, he’s showing that he’s a flppity floppity panderer in the vein of John Kerry. The more he opens his mouth, the more time for his foot to be inserted

    “Where is Obama’s legislative record? He is an unknown, whose only real legislative record is to vote against declaring the Revolutionary Guard a terror group. His associations are with Carter-philes. (Brzezinski, Malley, Powers) Then of course is his Rashid Khalidi association.”

    You are spot on there!! He’s so far left he makes Hillary look like a Reaganite! That’ll never fly with middle America

    Reply
  11. Howie
    June 6, 2008 at 12:35 am

    Alexander-

    I am trying hard to think of something the Palestinians have done in a positive manner…?

    Israel gave up Gaza and, of course, the Sinai…clear concrete concessions.

    I think the Palestinians could give up terrorism for starters and I don’t think Israel should do crap until they do…

    What concessions have the Palestinians made? Did they even do the symbolic thing of changing their charter yet?

    Reply
  12. leo
    June 6, 2008 at 12:25 pm

    #9 I share this sentiment completely.

    Israelis have their job cut out for them with each and every new US president.

    On one hand US help is greatly needed. On another hand Israelis need to gently fight off each US president’s desire to “solve ME crisis” and to “make mark in history”.

    However, to be fair. Every new president understands more about problem than his predecessor.

    Clinton had Oslo and despite its obvious failure kept pushing Israelis and Palestinians toward each other even when both parties did not want to meet.

    Bush had “Road map” but he finally understood that he cannot make either side “drink the water”.

    McCain is most likely to follow Bush’s foot steps in ME.

    Obama might not even start any kind of “ME process” for the fear of failure and fear of upsetting his perfect winning record. Or he might become too forceful, but that I doubt.

    Reply
  13. Mike Nargiziain
    June 6, 2008 at 11:12 pm

    Hey Sam -
    I realize you’re saying it tongue and cheek but at some point it’s becomes not funny and a bit patronizing and condescending….
    if a self hating Jew was doing it tongue and cheek it’d bather me as much or more……
    For the record – most blacks don’t hate Jews… it’s just the leadership and the radical minority – and that is changing drastically because many many blacks are middle class and up and can’t stand Sharpton and Jesse….

    But you get an asshole like Farra Can Can (A Muslim what a shocker huh?) and there you go…

    Mike

    Reply
  14. Mike Nargiziain
    June 6, 2008 at 11:19 pm

    And btw – anyone with a fing brain in his head knows Obama was full of shit in that speech… but there are a lot of PCorrect liberal Jews who wanna vote for a black man and believe that the impasse in the conflict is caused bcs “Bush just fowled up the entire Middle East and lost the US’s ‘good name’”… so even though Obama is good friends with and/or hangs with William Ayers, Reverend Wright and not to mention Ali Abuminah while State Senator (though most don’t know who the f that fat f is (no offense on the weight challenged part)) they don’t care… they want to “kvell” at Obama.

    I personally was thinking how good it would be to have a black man in the White House etc.. image etc.. but then realized -
    a) that would last about 5 fing minutes
    b) it would be fun to watch the PC media beat themselves up for asking him a tough question as President… and then that free pass and hypocrisy would end..
    c) It would be a joy to listen to the black “leaders” carp when Obama doesn’t funnel money to them or gets criticized for anything and they say it’s because he’s black… that might be the causus belli to end Affirmative Action more than anything else… (not that I am necessarily for that yet)
    d) Why should I judge him differently than a white candidate.. he’s getting the same equal treatment in my mind…. (not that my vote matters as I live in NY a Democratic State no matter what)

    Mike

    Reply
  15. karen
    June 7, 2008 at 4:13 am

    I groaned when I heard highlights of that speech. He was so fake it was pathetic. I will judge B.O. by the friends and advisors he has and what they have been advocating and spewing for decades. His pandering won’t win over anyone with half a brain!

    Reply
  16. mohamed the #1st
    June 7, 2008 at 10:05 am

    Thank you sandmonkey for the slight of hand which I prefer to conclude as the ultimate debacle of any attempt to debate the palistinian israeli conflict without conceding to the fact that the path to build Israel was cleared by the jewsish terrorists of 1948, such as the Haggana and many other indiscriminant displacing machines.

    Terrorism only harbors terrorism.

    Israel could be the kindest sweetest nation in the world but there will never be peace until this fact is not continuously attempted to be smudged out by various parties and coalitions such as the AIPAC.

    Have a nice day!

    Reply
  17. Frenchie Ced Jordan
    June 7, 2008 at 1:43 pm

    Lisa’s right: “the BBC announcer just said “jewish lobby in the united states” instead of “israel lobby” they do it all the time and no-one calls them on it. Most AIPAC people are Christians, for heaven’s sake”. AIPAC is not even the Israel lobby, it’s the Zionist lobby, and does not reprensent all Israelis, not the human rights activists, left-wingers, anti-zionist Jews, let alone the non-Israeli Jews of America.

    What about Israel giving up Gaza and Sinai ? Are we supposed to admire that ? Dude, they were NOT SUPPOSED to take them in the first place.

    I can’t believe how twisted some of your arguments are, one-sided, and biased. Can you even try to be objective and admit SOME of the things Israel did were wrong, and still obviously ARE WRONG, like SETTING UP NEW SETTLEMENTS ? At least plenty of Palestinians admit terrorism is wrong and disagree with it.

    An ex-Israeli Ambassador (Barnavi) once said: “I have more in common with a pro-peace secular muslim Palestinian than with a zionist fanatic in a settlement”.

    Reply
  18. JT
    June 7, 2008 at 1:45 pm

    Fact: The terrorists support Obama.

    ‘Nuff said.

    Reply
  19. Gila
    June 7, 2008 at 4:33 pm

    When it comes to the whole issue of what Israel is to give–aka withdrawing from the West Bank…. all I can think about is the withdrawal from Gaza. I supported it wholeheartedly. I believed it to be the right thing to do. I went to demonstrations in support. I refrained from wearing orange for a year (orange being the color adopted by the anti-disengagement folk). I was open about my views–and that in Jerusalem, which tends to be rather right wing. (Killed my dating life, let me tell you). And when Kadima ran on a platform of getting us out of the West Bank as well, I voted for them, despite the fact that Olmert is a dipshit.

    And what happened? The greenhouses left behind after being purchased by international donors were razed. The former settlements have been converted into firing ranges–convenient for firing into Israel. And Ahuva is right–when we open the border crossings, terrorists attack them.

    I am not left wing. I am not right wing. I am smack dab in the center, like lots of other Israelis. I am one of the many who, on the one hand, does not really expect the two sides to ever be lovey-dovey but on the other, believes that change is both possible and necessary. I would be perfectly content to live in a state of peaceful subdued loathing (rather like what we have with Egypt). I am also one of the many in the Center and the Left who have had their hopes dashed by what has happened in Gaza, by the daily rocket barrages, and who is starting to wonder if maybe the Right is right.

    A number of months ago, a group of activists demonstrated near Erez against the blockade. They decided to disperse…after katushot started falling near them.

    To me, this pretty much sums up the entire situation. Depressing does not begin to describe it.

    Reply
  20. Cedric
    June 7, 2008 at 5:26 pm

    LOL. No, JT, actually TERRORISTS SUPPORT MCCAIN. “Fact” :)

    And it’s only logical: they thrived under G.W. Bush. The buggers just want it to go on, no changes…

    Reply
  21. JT
    June 7, 2008 at 6:49 pm

    Cedric,

    Unless you have been living under a rock for the past few months, you’d know that Hamas supports Obama, and not McCain. McCain has vowed to be Hamas’ worst nightmare.

    Hamas political adviser Ahmed Yousef said two weeks ago in an interview with WABC radio and WorldNetDaily that the terrorist group supports Obama’s foreign policy vision.

    “Actually, we like Mr. Obama. We hope he will [win] the election and I do believe he is like John Kennedy, great man with great principle,” he said.Source: Fox News

    The above is from Fox News, but since people like you will probably discredit Fox News, here is a youtube video from Al-Jazeera:

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=41bS3-F0Kqc&feature=related

    I provided my proofs that terrorists support Obama. Now, Cedric, show me your proof that terrorists support McCain. I’m waiting.

    Reply
  22. JT
    June 7, 2008 at 6:53 pm

    Cedric,

    You sound just like the other liar, Twosret. Hamas has gone on record to express their support for Obama, not McCain. Obama has support from domestic terrorists as well as foreign terrorists. The video reports are all over Youtube. Just search for Hamas Supports Obama to see Al-Jazeera video reports.

    Reply
  23. mohamed the #1st
    June 7, 2008 at 7:06 pm

    @ Frenchie Ced Jordan, not many people that visit this hate filled site are able to speak the truth just as you have. Thank you!

    Reply
  24. Roman Kalik
    June 7, 2008 at 8:19 pm

    What about Israel giving up Gaza and Sinai ? Are we supposed to admire that ? Dude, they were NOT SUPPOSED to take them in the first place.

    Then I guess Israel was supposed to simply return the land to hostile nations that attacked it – nations that refused all form of negotiation with Israel in the aftermath of that very war in which Israel was left in control of these territories. Nations that met and declared publicly that all and any negotiation with Israel was treason to the Arab League.

    Perhaps Israel should have also committed ritual suicide? Because that is what you seem to demand – that Israel allow itself to be dragged into senseless and bloody wars, and then be a “good sport” and “fair” and return the land from which it was attacked to countries that weren’t willing to even *negotiate*?

    Well, when Egypt *was* willing to negotiate, it got the Sinai back. When the Palestinians *were* willing to negotiate they started getting a semblance of a country. That’s how diplomacy and international relations *work*, Ced.

    And no, returning strategically-placed land to people still saying just how much they want to erase your country from the face of the earth is *not* the way it works.

    Reply
  25. ito
    June 7, 2008 at 11:26 pm

    He had a Jewish counsellor in summer camp. How can he not be a friend of Israel. :beer:

    Reply
  26. Ced
    June 7, 2008 at 11:37 pm

    Mmmm… You digressed a lot from Obama and AIPAC but I guess that’s what happens when there’s a post about Israel.

    Roman said “I guess Israel was supposed to simply return the land to hostile nations that attacked it”. Now wait a minute Roman. Take a history class. The problem is, in 1967, Israel STARTED to attack. To defend themselves… Isn’t there a contradiction ? And then, they seized Sinai. To defend themselves. Er…

    In 1967, when Egypt organized the blocade of Eilat, Charles De Gaulle told Ben Gurion : “Do not strike first. Wait for them to see if they strike, and if they do, then defend yourselves” (published diplomatic archives). Ben Gurion should have listened. De Gaulle was not exactly a diplomatic idiot, nor a naive dove.

    Boy am I glad that during the Cuban missiles crisis in 1962 Kennedy and Khrouchtchev didn’t have the mindset of Israelis. Imagine: “pre-emptive strikes” with nuclear weapons during the Cold War…

    Also, I understand better why you guys never figured out a way of being at peace in 60 years. You just refuse to even consider the full story, with the alternative narrative. This is the exact negation of diplomacy. Until you do, you’re paving the way for 60 more years of the same. Suits you. So, “happy birthday, and many, many more”…

    PS to JT: Hamas supports Obama ? First, I doubt their sincerity. You choose to believe in it. They’re better off with this administration, even if they won’t say it publicly. Second, the whole world supports Obama. The French, the English, the Italians, Africa… I assure you they’re not all terrorists, neither the American people who supports him.

    Reply
  27. JT
    June 8, 2008 at 12:19 am

    Cedric,

    Whether you believe Hamas’ support for Obama is sincere or not makes no difference. They’ve gone on record and said they hope he wins the presidency because they believe he is more likely to force Israel into giving up more land for peace. With this current presidency, Bush will never support those Hamas terrorists and will always protect Israel.

    And I’m still waiting for your “fact” that terrorists support McCain.

    Reply
  28. Ced
    June 8, 2008 at 6:19 am

    Don’t be silly. Of course between a guy whose party thinks that Arabs are rag-head fanatics, and a guy who’s a bit more worldly educated, actually lived in a muslim country (Indonesia) and went to a madrassa, ALL of the muslim world is going to give its preference to the guy who knows a little bit more about muslims, over any WASP bigot.

    Obama is a lesser evil. But still, the fact that some extremists may support him over McCain does not mean that he supports any terrorist. He’s made very clear points in this speech, read again. I thought it was a mistake to come and speak at AIPAC right after he was designated, but you just proved that it was necessary, for paranoid people who probably also think he’s a muslim, and therefore somehow a member of Al Qaeda as well…

    What politics have become…

    JT, the facts: who benefitted from the Bush years ? Is the Middle East more peaceful now ? Are there less terrorists ? Is Ben Laden in custody ? Is Israel safer now than 8 years ago ? Is Hezbollah less powerful, or more powerful ? Is Hamas… Is Iran … Is Iraq… Al Qaeda… etc etc etc

    Reply
  29. VERY CLEAN INDEED
    June 8, 2008 at 6:50 am

    Frenchie Ced Jordan (OR) Cedric (OR) Ced, who ever you are, you took the trophy for being the most learned commentor on this blog in ages. I mean that and am not being facetious, it is a sheer shame that people like you don’t stay around longer in this fact-less, hate filled, pro-occupation plagued jungle longer.

    I agree with mo#1 100% yet also do sympathize with Roman etc.

    I mean if I was born Jewish or Zionist whatever. I would do what ever it takes, including, twisting the facts, not being objective, lying, cheating etc. to guarantee the continued existence of my race. It is really sad INDEED!

    Reply
  30. JT
    June 8, 2008 at 6:58 am

    Cedric,

    Instead of asking me all these questions, why don’t you go first and give me your answers.

    First of all, show me proof that the Republican Party thinks Arabs are rag-head fanatics.

    Obama is an elitist who belittles hard working Americans. He has ties to all kinds of questionable characters, including racists, bigots, hate preachers, terrorists, and outright radical moonbats. Every time something controversial comes up about his relationship with someone, he uses the “This isn’t the person I know” excuse and the media laps it up. It works every time. Threw his white grandma under the bus for political expediency and embraced his communist father who abandoned him to go back to Africa to take more wives. Obama has promised to gut the military even more than what Bill clinton did during his 2 terms in the White House. Worldly educated, you say? Obama is extremely naive and stupid. He makes promises no candidate can keep once he’s in the White House. This is what he said about the US military:

    “Third, I will set a goal for a world without nuclear weapons. To seek that goal, I will not develop nuclear weapons; I will seek a global ban on the production of fissile material; and I will negotiate with Russia to take our ICBMs off hair-trigger alert, and to achieve deep cuts in our nuclear arsenal.”

    If that isn’t naiveté, then I don’t know what is. How the hell is he going to make this world nuclear free, when China is expanding it’s military programs? They’re in the process of building massive submarine caves in a mountain and Obama is going to say what to them to persuade them to give up their nukes? China holds most of the cards over the US. We owe them a huge trade debt. What leverage do we have over them? What about Iran? Ahmadinejad has vowed to continue with it’s nuke program come hell or high water, and nothing the UN has said has deterred them one bit. What about Pakistan and India who are mortal enemies? Obama is a fool, and a lying sack of dirt. White the Muslim world tries to acquire nukes, the only nukes he will disarm is the US’ and leave us less powerful. He tells AIPAC Jerusalem should remain the capital of Israel and undivided, but then flip flops and says it’s up for negotiations between the two parties.

    Reply
  31. VERY CLEAN INDEED
    June 8, 2008 at 7:14 am

    He never said it should be divided (Jerusalem), when asked if it should be divided, he said it is up to the parties involved. You know you guys have been getting away with murder and now the Bush family is one of the wealthiest in the world and it is coming to an end. although McCain wants to jump on the bandwagon, but that’s not gonna happen.

    Obama is the change, plain and simple, whether for good or for bad and the people have spoken. They have had enough. Mcain is the dyslexic dirt bag, having wanted to run for office for the last 2 decades.

    Obama is the next JFK, Bobby Kennedy in one.

    Let’s just hope the secret service knows how to protect him this time around.

    Reply
  32. JT
    June 8, 2008 at 8:03 am

    He never said it should be divided (Jerusalem), when asked if it should be divided, he said it is up to the parties involved.

    Then he effectively backed away from what he said to AIPAC because that’s not what he told them the other day, or do you not get that?

    Reply
  33. JT
    June 8, 2008 at 8:07 am

    VERY CLEAN INDEED,

    How is McCain a dirt bag? Because he’s dyslexic who ran for president multiple times? Is that your superior logic at work here? And obama is the next JFK/BFK in one? Based on what? JFK/BFK never put their foot in their mouths as often as Obama has. Neither have they had long ties to terrorists, hate mongers, racists, and bigots. Neither did they received support from terrorists who want to see the US destroyed.

    Reply
  34. Roman Kalik
    June 8, 2008 at 9:01 am

    Ced, maybe, just maybe, having three large armies being amassed and coordinated at your borders (Egyptian, Syrian, and Iraqi) is not a good sign. Maybe seeing Lebanon and Jordan reinforcing positions isn’t a good sign.

    Maybe seeing the gulf states sending financial aid isn’t a good sign, and the North African states sending troops and arms to Egypt not the best sign either.

    And maybe waiting endlessly as Charles De-Galle had advised (who was far more interested in trading with Arab states than he was with maintaining ties with Israel) would have led to a six-figure Israeli death-toll. And no, De-Galle wasn’t naive or a white dove – he was just placing his bets on new friends, better oil prices, and a better French economy. Israel was an afterthought left over by his predecessors – whom De-Galle had cleansed from the government and its institutions, and whose politics he didn’t like at all. Israel wasn’t in De-Galle’s best interest.

    Israel had its intel, Sed. It also listened to the declarations on radio stations next door – waiting for those huge armies to coordinate and synchronize their efforts would have been nothing short of suicidal – and relying on the French to come to the rescue, under the increasingly hostile De-Galle? Laughable.

    You seem to have your own version of history, Ced. In it, the French are perfect and know best, and Israel shouldn’t have really inerpreted hostilities as, well, *hostilities*. Being blockaded in the south, having artillery exchanges in the north, and having ever-growing armies at the borders along with rather blatant war-talk from the regional leaders… Israel shouldn’t have taken those as a warning signs, oh no. And more importantly, let’s blame Israel for misenterpreting all of the above – and for not doing its best to keep trying to communicate with countries quite uninterested in said communications.

    No, Israel should have listened to the French, and died, thus saving De-Galle a political inconvenience in the region. And then De-Galle could have beaten himself on the chest and declared how he mourns his old allies, accepting the refugees (up to a point, of course – wouldn’t want to strain the French economy), and forgetting they ever existed.

    Reply
  35. VERY CLEAN INDEED
    June 8, 2008 at 11:10 am

    never mind what he led AIPAC to believe. If AIPAC is stupid enough to presume that he meant undivided then serves them right for being so presumptuous.

    JT, is that the extent OF YOUR intellect.

    Contemptuous presumption?

    Prove your statement “Neither have they had long ties to terrorists, hate mongers, racists, and bigots.” Back it up.

    Reagan & Bush are the ones who made Bin Laden. So get your foot out of your $#@#$@ and acknowledge that.

    Obama is the next big thing in the world, he is the change, just as JFK was!

    Love it or leave it.

    People want that, no matter how much it affects some foreign occupying nation. In the midst all America can do is hope that Obama wont let Israel down TOO badly. But in the end they will be protected in order to scare Arabs into Oil cooperation with the West etc.

    Worry about Iran. Obama will negotiate with them and leave them no room for anymore excuses. Obama is hungry for change!

    He is the change!

    Its simple!

    Reply
  36. VERY CLEAN INDEED
    June 8, 2008 at 12:26 pm

    A CHANGE YOU CAN BELIEVE IN!

    CHANGE WAITS FOR NO ONE!

    JUMP ABOARD.

    OPEN YOUR HEART.

    QUITE THE HATE OR MISS OUT AND SUFFER!

    Reply
  37. Valerie
    June 8, 2008 at 1:54 pm

    In the US, we call it a “cult of personality” — it’s the characterization of someone who is after all only human, as some kind of miracle worker capable of solving all our problems with a wave of his glorified hand. It’s a very deliberate, prominent feature of the Obama campaign, and VERY CLEAN INDEED is pretty typical.

    Yecch.

    Reply
  38. VERY CLEAN INDEED
    June 8, 2008 at 2:37 pm

    Oh then again even more typical are the ones who would rather continue to stew in their own feces like the ones who think that ol God is really on the side of Israel or Ahmedinajad and the current Bush administration’s idiosyncrasy is from Go! Double yuck!

    Not a tangible thing that everyday people can really believe in.

    like i said, and i have 25 million Americans behind me that think the same thing!

    A CHANGE YOU CAN BELIEVE IN!

    CHANGE WAITS FOR NO ONE!

    JUMP ABOARD.

    OPEN YOUR HEART.

    QUITE THE HATE OR MISS OUT AND SUFFER!

    Reply
  39. JT
    June 8, 2008 at 3:45 pm

    never mind what he led AIPAC to believe. If AIPAC is stupid enough to presume that he meant undivided then serves them right for being so presumptuous.

    Are you thick? AIPAC has every reason to assume he meant undivided because that was the exact word he used. I just gave you his quote verbatim. It’s AiPAC’s fault for believing in his empty promises? Okay, gotcha. They can’t even believe in him now, so how the hell can they believe in him when he becomes POTUS. LOL, moonbat logic.

    Prove your statement “Neither have they had long ties to terrorists, hate mongers, racists, and bigots.” Back it up.

    Do the names Hamas, Jeremiah Wright, Father Pflegher, William Ayers, Samantha Powers, Bernadine Doern, and Rezko ring a bell? Does this help or do you want me to individually categorize these people and group because you’re too lazy to research them yourself? Where have you been living the last couple of months, under a rock?!

    Reagan & Bush are the ones who made Bin Laden. So get your foot out of your $#@#$@ and acknowledge that.

    Now you prove to me that it was Reagan and Bush who created Bin Laden and not his own bruised ego that resulted in the rise of Al-Qaeda. I think you may be relying on those conspiracy websites a bit too much. Next, you’re going to tell me that the CIA funded Al-Qaeda and that’s how Bin Laden became so strong? Go ahead and say that. I would love to prove you wrong. Regardless, what does this have anything to do with Obama and McCain? Don’t divert the topic to something else; stick with Obama.

    Similarity between Obama and JFK: both were young and popular.

    Difference between Obama and JFK: JFK “earned his paycheck” when he stared down nuclear threats from the Soviets during the Cuban Missile Crisis. He wasn’t going to back down from protecting his country even if it meant using nukes against the Soviets. Obama is not yet president and already he has promised to disarm the US’ nuke programs and arsenal. His own Cuban Missile Crisis has not even materialized and already he’s tying his country’s arms behind it’s back. JFK the courageous or Obama the cowardly appeaser?

    Heh, I tend to stay away from any candidate with a messiah complex, and that’s what the media and people like you have made Obama out to be. Not only that, George Soros, the billionaire who supports Obama heavily, also thinks of himself as a type of God. Very creepy.

    Reply
  40. JT
    June 8, 2008 at 3:51 pm

    The spam filter at this blog has tagged this post as spam and won’t let me post this, so I’ll have to try to get around it.

    never mind what he led AIPAC to believe. If AIPAC is stupid enough to presume that he meant undivided then serves them right for being so presumptuous.

    Are you thick? AIPAC has every reason to assume he meant undivided because that was the exact word he used. I just gave you his quote verbatim. It’s AiPAC’s fault for believing in his empty promises? Okay, gotcha. They can’t even believe in him now, so how the hell can they believe in him when he becomes POTUS? That’s your moonbat logic at work right there.

    Prove your statement “Neither have they had long ties to terrorists, hate mongers, racists, and bigots.” Back it up.

    Do the names Hamas, Jeremiah Wright, Father Pflegher, William Ayers, Samantha Powers, Bernadine Doern, and Rezko ring a bell? Does this help or do you want me to individually categorize these people and group because you’re too lazy to research them yourself? Where have you been living the last couple of months, under a rock?! Do you ignore all the bad things reported about your Obamessiah and only focus on the dyslexic McCain?

    Reagan & Bush are the ones who made Bin Laden. So get your foot out of your $#@#$@ and acknowledge that.

    Now you prove to me that it was Reagan and Bush who created Bin Laden and not his own bruised ego that resulted in the rise of Al-Qaeda. I think you may be relying on those conspiracy websites a bit too much. Next, you’re going to tell me that the CIA funded Al-Qaeda and that’s how Bin Laden became so strong? Go ahead and say that. I would love to prove you wrong. Regardless, what does this have anything to do with Obama and McCain? Don’t divert the topic to something else; this discussion is about the ineptitude of Obama.

    Similarity between Obama and JFK: both were young and popular.

    Difference between Obama and JFK: JFK “earned his paycheck” when he stared down nuclear threats from the Soviets during the Cuban Missile Crisis. He wasn’t going to back down from protecting his country even if it meant using nukes against the Soviets. Obama is not yet president and already he has promised to disarm the US’ nuke programs and arsenal. His own Cuban Missile Crisis has not even materialized and already he’s tying his country’s arms behind it’s back. JFK the courageous or Obama the cowardly appeaser?

    Heh, I tend to stay away from any candidate with a messiah complex, and that’s what the media and people like you have made Obama out to be. Not only that, George Soros, the billionaire who supports Obama heavily, also thinks of himself as a type of God. Very creepy.

    Reply
  41. VERY CLEAN INDEED
    June 8, 2008 at 7:26 pm

    Shit, your spam got through!

    i give credit when credit is due, you are a tireless lobbyist who tries incessantly to distort the truth.

    the names you mentioned are not terrorists except Hammas you dweeb and they have no official ties with Obama.

    You are hurt’n for certain JT!

    Never mind butch, you are entitled to your opinion but Obama will win hands down.

    Are you insane to actually think that whats his face will win now that we got Hillary backing us mwhaheheha …

    You are almost priceless….

    I love the part about Soros…..

    Too Much….

    Reply
  42. zeph
    June 8, 2008 at 8:37 pm

    If you were to believe Obama’s supporters say, Obama would be a cross between a Messiah and the Hidden Imam! Actually I would go by the latter because, you know cultural reasons, and of course, Obama’s tendency in hiding his middle name, which incidentally coincides with that of the hidden Imam! But the more I see of him, something tells me that Obama is nothing more than a Snake Oil Salesman

    Reply
  43. Ced
    June 8, 2008 at 10:52 pm

    Yes, his second name is Hussein. And wait… Hillary’s “Rodham”… That sounds a lot like Saddam. omygod !

    Reply
  44. JT
    June 9, 2008 at 12:05 am

    the names you mentioned are not terrorists except Hammas you dweeb and they have no official ties with Obama.

    You like to twist what I actually said, which is typical. Notice I did not claimed all of those people are terrorists; some are hate mongers and racists, but clearly you can’t do the math so let me break it down for you slowly.

    *Hamas, William Ayers, Bernadine Doern = terrorists who support Obama. Ayers and Doern belong to the terrorist group th Weather Underground and are unrepentent for their terrorist crimes.

    *Jeremiah Wright, Father Pflegher = racist hate preachers who support Obama and who both received support from Obama for many years.

    *Rezko = a political fixer currently under federal investigation for crimes involving bribes, kickbacks and “efforts to illegally obtain millions of dollars.” Rezko and Obama were involved in a shady estate purchase in 2005.

    *Samantha Powers = former top foreign policy adviser to Obama who onced called Hillary a monster. She, too, was thrown under the bus by the Obama campaign. What’s even more troubling are her anti-Israel remarks in the past in which she suggested a massive invasion of Israel. She’s an anti-Semitic bigot.

    Reply
  45. JT
    June 9, 2008 at 12:15 am

    Concerning George Soros, here is one of his quote in verbatim:

    “I fancied myself as some kind of god…If the truth be known, I carried some rather potent messianic fantasies with me from childhood, which I felt I had to control, otherwise they might get me in trouble.”

    When given the chance to say he was kidding, Soros instead elaborated by saying, “It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.”

    Oh, and if we are to go off in different tangents, I’d like for you to prove to me that the Reagan and Bush adminstration created Osama Bin Laden. Do you have solid information to back that up or were you just talking out of your rear end again?

    Reply
  46. JT
    June 9, 2008 at 1:54 am

    And while we’re talking about Obama, check out his official site. There you’ll find many groups of people who support him, including Marxists, socialists, and communists. Throw in more racist groups like the Nation of Islam and the New Black Panther Party, and you’ll see a clearer picture of the people who want him as president.

    And where is Cedric? I’m still waiting for him to answer my question. People like you, Cedric, and Twosret like to post and run, and when you’re challenged on an issue, you tend to change the topic. Typical tactic employed by the intellectually dishonest but it won’t work with anyone with two working neurons.

    Reply
  47. VERY CLEAN INDEED
    June 9, 2008 at 6:42 am

    Soros is a very powerful Jew, whats his position to the little nascent belligerent state of Israel?

    NEWS FALSH: Israelites have been persecuted endlessly. giving them nuclear weapons won’t change that HELL-O!!

    It is something in the essences of Israelites that always gets them in the shitter. Get off your pity pot already JT, is the whole world wrong, every last race on earth that has ever existed has hated the Israelites for some strange reason.

    Tell me why?

    If they had been following their religion correctly and looking at the bigger picture, they would have been objective instead of treating each other like Gods and non Jews like swine.

    collecting interest from non Jews is OK but from each other is wrong to a Jew.

    It is a racist hypocritical religion dude.

    If I were born an Israelite, I would call who ever disagrees with me and attacks me verbally an anti Semite as well. I would twist the truth, I would lie, I would open up a can of slithering deceptive Jewish Jihad on the culprits as well.

    If it weren’t for the bible then Israelites wouldn’t even have Christian support because of their treacherous ways.

    The only reason I don’t care is because most Israelites are slackers and don’t share these propagandistic views and just want to live peacefully. Never mind orthodox jews don’t believe in taking land by force, the ones that do are the (Iranian style Mullah) rabbi’s that live in Israel and throughout.

    Quite hating and let Obama be the next ruler of the free world.

    Let him show you guys peace.

    Is America better of now, safer after Bush.

    For fucks sake Israel just got its face rubbed in the dirt by a few Iranian rockets and the whole of Israel couldn’t do shit.

    Does that sound like god is on the side of the forceful occupiers?

    Don’t even get me started on the illegal settlements JT, Please!

    No doubt Obama would disassociate himself from me and my comments to get elected but after all he learned that technique from previous generations who in turn learned it from the Israelites.

    Mel Gibson is one thing but Barack Obama is another!

    And whatever, USA never gave Bin Laden any support, whatever dude!

    i won’t be rude like you and use profanity towards you, it proves nothing.

    Vote for geriatric McCain all you want!

    Reply
  48. JT
    June 9, 2008 at 7:44 am

    Awwww, now your anti-Semitism is showing. That didn’t take much, did it?

    Why are you going on about Israel and religion when the topic is Obama? Trying to change the subject again?

    Soros is a very powerful Jew, whats his position to the little nascent belligerent state of Israel?

    Soros is a self-hating Jew who blames Jews for anti-Semitism, which is absurd. That’s like blaming the battered wives for getting beat up by their husbands. They must have done something wrong to get the black and blue eyes, just like the Jews must have done something wrong to be singled out for hate crimes and genocide. Oh, that’s right, their fault is that they exist.

    NEWS FALSH: Israelites have been persecuted endlessly. giving them nuclear weapons won’t change that HELL-O!!

    When did I mentioned anything about giving Israel nukes? You don’t think they already have it? The world should not be concerned if Israel has nukes, because unlike the suicidal apocalyptic Muslim countries, Israel doesn’t want to start the next nuclear holocaust just so they can bring back the Hidden Imam. They want to be around and enjoy life with the rest of the sane world.

    It is something in the essences of Israelites that always gets them in the shitter. Get off your pity pot already JT, is the whole world wrong, every last race on earth that has ever existed has hated the Israelites for some strange reason.

    Tell me why?

    If they had been following their religion correctly and looking at the bigger picture, they would have been objective instead of treating each other like Gods and non Jews like swine.

    collecting interest from non Jews is OK but from each other is wrong to a Jew.

    It is a racist hypocritical religion dude.

    I am not Jewish and I am no expert on their religion but your ignorance and hatred here is astounding. Israel is a beacon of freedom and liberty in the Middle East. Muslim Arabs have more rights living in Israel than they can ever dream of if they lived in their Muslim countries. Wonder why so many Muslims in the Middle East want to move to Israel? Why is that? Maybe because those Muslims know they will get more rights in Israel and not have to deal with the Islamic tyranny and oppression living in their Muslim country? Jews are so tolerant they even allow gay parades and such. Do that in a Muslim country and you’ll get dragged through the streets and stoned to death.

    The Jewish people have this tiny bit of land, and every Muslim countries want to take it away from them. The Jews have contributed so much to mankind; it’s unbelievable how many world changing discoveries were made by people of Jewish ancestry. They have won more Nobel Prizes in the fields of the various sciences than all other groups of people. Not even the great civilizations like the Greeks and Mayans can compare to the Jews in terms of contributions to humanity, and yet they are hated. Why? Wherever they go, whatever they do, they prosper. The US took in Jews during the WWII era and those Jews made America prosper in untold ways. Do a search on Jewish contributions to mankind and tell me what other group of people can hold a candle to them?

    Israel is not out to wage wars like Hitler so they can conquer the world. They just want to exist and be lef the hell alone, so why can’t the Islamic terrorist regimes allow them to live in peace? They have this tiny piece of land and everybody wants to take it away from them. You tell me why that is. They gave back lands to their enemies and got nothing but more rockets launched at them, and more suicide bombings. Why must they have to convince the world that they too are human beings who deserve to live?

    The Palestinians have received billions of dollars from countries around the world, of which the US is a major donor, yet where is all that money that supposedly went to help the poor Palestinians? Arafat took a lot of it, as well as other crooks. They elected a group of thugs and killers to office, and since then Hamas has left their infrastructure unrepaired, including overflowing sewage systems. While the Palestinians suffer, Hamas is stockpiling weapons for more wars. It’s not Israel’s fault the Palestinians elected terrorists to rule over them and neglect them as Hamas have done. With all the money from oil revenues that Muslim countries have, why can’t they take care of the Palestinians themselves? Did you ever wondered about that? It’s because they only want to keep the Palestinians oppressed so they can use them as pawns in their quest to drive Israel into the sea. There are no other logical explanation. Every Muslim country talks about how much the Palestinians are suffering but who has stepped up to help? Who has taken those refugees in? The Palestinians were formerly Jordanians, so why does Jordan not take them back as citizens? Why is everything blamed on Israel and the Jews? For pete’s sake, even 9/11 was blamed on the Jews.

    I support Israel because she’s a beacon of freedom in the hell hole that is the Middle East. I support Israel because I am grateful for how they’ve made my life better through their discoveries, ingenuities, and contributions.

    Reply
  49. JT
    June 9, 2008 at 8:02 am

    Quite hating and let Obama be the next ruler of the free world.

    Let him show you guys peace.

    Is America better of now, safer after Bush.

    Obama is the most dangerous candidate to be so close to one of the most powerful office in the entire world. If he becomes president, there will not be any peace. There is no way he or anyone else can convince people like Ahmadinejad to stop his apocalyptic visions and driving Israel into the sea. Ahmad has said he wants to see the US destroyed as well as Israel. How can any US president make peace with a madman like that?

    Reagan reminded us of peace through strength, but Obama wants us to believe peace is possible through gutting the US military. Let me ask you? Who has the courage to attack China? Is it a weak country, militarily? No, on the contrary, China is building up very advance military technologies. They expect to use it one day, especially as their population grows and they need more resources for their people, like oil for instance. When the shit hits the fan, what will America be able to do after Obama has downsized the US military programs? He’s also promised to prosecute what he calls war criminials in Iraq, and I know he isn’t referring to the terrorists that murdered Iraqis because they don’t belong to the right Muslim sect. Obama will likely go after policy makers like Bush, Rumsfeld, Colin Powell, etc. That is a sure way to start a civil war in the US. It will demoralize US troops and it will cause re-enlistment to drop like a stone. When America becomes that weak, who will protect her? Obama? He is a fool with no experience and thinks he can whup Congress into doing whatever he wants. He thinks he can have diplomatic talks with America’s enemies and be able to change their minds on not wanting to harm us and Israel. At this point, I’d rather have Hillary as president than Obama. Anybody but Obama.

    Mel Gibson is one thing but Barack Obama is another!

    And whatever, USA never gave Bin Laden any support, whatever dude!

    i won’t be rude like you and use profanity towards you, it proves nothing.

    You’re becoming unhinged. Show me proof that Bin Laden got support from the US. Please. Show me your level of knowledge in this matter.

    And you called me a dweeb and that’s not rude? I’ve backed up my claims with facts. Where are yours?

    Reply
  50. Ced
    June 9, 2008 at 9:35 am

    Roman, you made good, valid points. But you’re reasoning in a logic of perpetual war and fear. The existing conditions can and must be modified to allow for peace and negociation. The current statu quo of American and Israeli politics: deying Israel’s shortcomings, systematic suspiscion towards Palestine, disproportionate military retaliation (like the bombing of Beirut) only breeds more violence, strengthens Hamas and Hezbollah, and proved completely counter-productive for peace.

    On another note, it seems incredible that after 9/11 people like JT still do not know about the history of Bin Laden’s connection to the CIA, that’s been on TV and newspapers for the past 7 years. There’s even a Tom Hanks movie about it now.

    This ignorance gives a terrifying image of McCain supporters. They’re now afraid of Barack Hussein Obama because his name is not anglo-saxon. Fear and ignorance do not make for wise decisions. But rest assured that some people have an interest in maintaining you in that fear and ignorance, so they can reach in taxpayers’ pockets to finance their wars, make juicy no-bid contracts with the US army and keep you ill-informed. Without consideration for the real-life effects: rising oil prices, a dwindling US economy, and US soldiers in body bags.

    FYI: the contacts between the CIA and Ben Laden go back to 1979 when, representing the family company in Istanbul, the CIA began paying him and his volunteers from the Muslim world for Afghan resistance against the Red Army.

    Inquiring into the attacks of August 1998 against the American embassies of Nairobi (Kenya) and Dar es-Salaam (Tanzania), the investigators of the FBI discovered that the traces left by the loads came from a military explosive of the American army and that this explosive was delivered three years before to Afghan warriors, the famous international brigades of volunteers, engaged at the side of Ossama Ben Laden against the Soviet army.

    On “peace through strength”: the US army has never been so strong, yet it failed to bring peace, quite the contrary. Another concept of power is “Soft Power” (Joseph Nye): to influence the behavior of other States through cultural or ideological means, to make them want what you want. It’s more cost-effective and more long-lasting. Lead by example.

    The ultimate example of the shortcomings of nuclear proliferation was in 1962: pressing hard power would have meant a nuclear showdown. Kennedy took another path. But some people never learn.

    Reply
  51. VERY CLEAN INDEED
    June 9, 2008 at 9:43 am

    @ JT

    Jews dont speak Semite they speak Hebrew, they stole the term from the bible to gain Christian support. Just like the likes of you JT. I assure you I am not what you claim.

    I must retort what you said about”They just want to exist and be lef the hell alone, so why can’t the Islamic terrorist regimes allow them to live in peace?”

    Umm because they go around killing and maiming innocent children and building illegal settlements on land THAT IS NOT THEIRS HELL-O.

    Never mind that Israel was founded by a terrorist gangs called the Haggana and YES even beloved America called the Haggana a terrorist gang back then before they decided to side with israel when they found out about the oil in the M.E. and neeeded something to scare the shit out of the Arabs with as leverage. Google Haggana terrorist, ex holocaust concentration camp survivors in grave need of counselling.

    Obama will win, but your prophecies are wrong, there will be no civil war.

    Oh and hands down I might add.

    Just FYI, I support israel a 100%, not because it is the right thing to do, but just because it is Posh and in fashion, just as 70% of Israel’s supporters do.

    Israel is a hell whole compared to the Gulf, especially to Dubai and Bahrain.

    Plus they pay ex pats way better.

    Obama is sent from God, McCain is not!

    Reply
  52. Obama ForEver
    June 9, 2008 at 9:48 am

    Spam filter has been turned on, I guess the minute I said something about Israelites taking interest from non jews is hypocrytical and racist i inadvertantly made myself out to be a Mel gibson, so i will try and post under a different name and change it around a bit.

    ~!@#$%^&*(

    At COMMENT 60 from Jay Tea

    Jews dont speak Semite they speak Hebrew, they stole the term from the bible to gain Christian support. Just like the likes of you JT. I assure you I am not what you claim.

    !@#$%^&*()

    I must retort what you said about”They just want to exist and be lef the hell alone, so why can’t the Islamic terrorist regimes allow them to live in peace?”

    Umm because they go around killing and maiming innocent children and building illegal settlements on land THAT IS NOT THEIRS HELL-O.

    !@#$%^&*(

    Never mind that Israel was founded by a terrorist gangs called the Haggana and YES even beloved America called the Haggana a terrorist gang back then before they decided to side with israel when they found out about the oil in the M.E. and neeeded something to scare the shit out of the Arabs with as leverage. Google Haggana terrorist, ex holocaust concentration camp survivors in grave need of counselling.

    Obama will win, but your prophecies are wrong, there will be no civil war.

    Oh and hands down I might add.

    !@#$%^&*(

    Just FYI, I support israel a 100%, not because it is the right thing to do, but just because it is Posh and in fashion, just as 70% of Israel’s supporters do.

    Israel is a hell whole compared to the Gulf, especially to Dubai and Bahrain.

    !@#$%^&*

    Plus they pay ex pats way better.

    !@#$%^&*

    Obama is sent from God, McCain is not!

    !@#$%^&*

    Reply
  53. I Support Obama
    June 9, 2008 at 10:46 am

    Obama Forever, you’re scary, ignorant and embarrassing. You ruined my lunch break. It’s funny to see how a political debate attracts all sorts of people, because in the end, you probably vote somewhere. That’s the scary part. Can’t have a democracy made of articulate people only. I’m not sure what’s worse: having no respect for my political enemies, or having no respect for my allies.

    Gosh, “Israelis stole the name Hebrew from the Bible to gain christian support”, that’s Anne Coulter stuff.

    Reply
  54. Ever so clean
    June 9, 2008 at 11:48 am

    JT even Sandmonkey supports Obama and it looks like Israel does now too by the likes of comment 66.

    Read Sandmonkey’s latest post talking about how he supports Obama and it is the best thing for America and don’t forget he is pro Israeli American disgruntled etc.

    So get a life or get with the program

    Reply
  55. JT
    June 9, 2008 at 2:53 pm

    Very Clean Indeed and Obama ForEver are the same person due to the spam filter requiring him to modify his post to be accepted by the blog spam filter.

    Umm because they go around killing and maiming innocent children and building illegal settlements on land THAT IS NOT THEIRS HELL-O.

    Really think about what you’re saying. If Israel was really doing that, all of the Palestinians would be dead by now. Wars do take innocent lives but to say they’re intentionally targeting children is absurd and unsubstantiated. It is the terrorists who are hiding among Palestinian children as has been documented with photographs by the press. It is the Palestinian terrorists who are deliberately targeting Israeli civilians. That cannot be denied.

    As for the illegal settlements, what other choice does Israel has when the terrorists use those lands to launch rocket attacks? Is Israel suppose to just stand by and hope none of the rockets hit their citizens? The Palestinians can’t perpetuate this war by continuing terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians and then cry foul when their homes are bulldozed by the Israeli. Israel has warned them again and again: commit terrorist attacks against us and we’ll bulldoze your home. The Palestinians don’t listen. Rather than negotiate peace, they want the war to continue. Give them money and land for peace, and they’ll use that money to buy more weapons to kill Jews. They are more to blame than the Israelis are.

    JT even Sandmonkey supports Obama and it looks like Israel does now too by the likes of comment 66.

    Read Sandmonkey’s latest post talking about how he supports Obama and it is the best thing for America and don’t forget he is pro Israeli American disgruntled etc.

    So get a life or get with the program

    It is sad when you rely on a blogger from the Middle East to shape your opinion on an American presidential candidate. Can’t you think for yourself or do you let Sandmonkey be the final word on American politics? Sandmonkey is smart and I like him but he does not follow the day to day presidential news like I do.

    Reply
  56. JT
    June 9, 2008 at 2:56 pm

    Obama is sent from God, McCain is not!

    Oh, my god. You’re out of your mind. If Obama is sent from God, then why has he associated with hate mongers and terrorists? Why has he lied so much?

    Reply
  57. JT
    June 9, 2008 at 3:16 pm

    On another note, it seems incredible that after 9/11 people like JT still do not know about the history of Bin Laden’s connection to the CIA, that’s been on TV and newspapers for the past 7 years. There’s even a Tom Hanks movie about it now.

    The CIA did not fund Osama Bin Laden. The United States supported the Afghans fighting the Soviets, as did countries like Saudi Arabia, the UK, Pakistan, China, and Egypt. There were two groups of “Afghans” who were fighting the Soviet: the native Afghans which the US did support, and the “Afghan Arabs” who came into Afghanistan to fight in their jihad. Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda belonged to this second group, the “Afghan Arabs.” They were more disruptive and the Afghans hated them. The Afghans appreciated the money coming in from the Arab states but hated the fact that many Afghan Arabs were trying to convert them to their more radical form of Islam. Freelance cameraman Peter Jouvenal recalls: “There was no love lost between the Afghans and the Arabs. One Afghan told me, ‘Whenever we had a problem with one of them we just shot them. They thought they were kings.’”

    Ayman Al-Zawahari, Al-Qaeda’s #2 in command, confirmed that the Afghan Arabs did not received any funding from the US during the war in Afghanistan. In the book that was described as his last will, Knights Under the Prophet’s Banner, which was serialized in December 2001 in Al-Sharq al-Awsat, al-Zawahiri says the Afghan Arabs were funded with money from Arab sources, which amounted to hundreds of millions of dollars.

    Abdullah Anas, an Algerian who was one of the foremost Afghan Arab organizers and the son-in-law of Abdullah Azzam, has also confirmed that the CIA had no relationship with the Afghan Arabs. Speaking on the French television program Zone Interdit on September 12, 2004, Anas stated:

    “If you say there was a relationship in the sense that the CIA used to meet with Arabs, discuss with them, prepare plans with them, and to fight with them — it never happened.”

    Reply
  58. JT
    June 9, 2008 at 3:25 pm

    On “peace through strength”: the US army has never been so strong, yet it failed to bring peace, quite the contrary. Another concept of power is “Soft Power” (Joseph Nye): to influence the behavior of other States through cultural or ideological means, to make them want what you want. It’s more cost-effective and more long-lasting. Lead by example.

    This is sheer ignorance. You cannot influence the behaviors of religious extremists hell bent on bringing about a worldwide holocaust to usher back their Hidden Imam. They want an Islamic caliphate under which non-Muslims would be treated as second class citizens. That’s not what we want and neither shall the twain meet. Their thirst for Jewish blood is so great and no one can change their mind. With the military might that the US currently has, we can dispatch of them but the leftists are too politically correct to allow that to happen. They would rather kick the can down the road and deal with it another day, just like Clinton did when given the chance to deal with Al-Qaeda. Some people will never learn.

    Reply
  59. JT
    June 9, 2008 at 3:25 pm

    Cedric,

    On “peace through strength”: the US army has never been so strong, yet it failed to bring peace, quite the contrary. Another concept of power is “Soft Power” (Joseph Nye): to influence the behavior of other States through cultural or ideological means, to make them want what you want. It’s more cost-effective and more long-lasting. Lead by example.

    This is sheer ignorance. You cannot influence the behaviors of religious extremists hell bent on bringing about a worldwide holocaust to usher back their Hidden Imam. They want an Islamic caliphate under which non-Muslims would be treated as second class citizens. That’s not what we want and neither shall the twain meet. Their thirst for Jewish blood is so great and no one can change their mind. With the military might that the US currently has, we can dispatch of them but the leftists are too politically correct to allow that to happen. They would rather kick the can down the road and deal with it another day, just like Clinton did when given the chance to deal with Al-Qaeda. Some people will never learn.

    Reply
  60. JT
    June 9, 2008 at 3:29 pm

    Very Clean Indeed and Obama ForEver are the same person due to the spam filter requiring him to modify his post to be accepted by the blog.

    Umm because they go around killing and maiming innocent children and building illegal settlements on land THAT IS NOT THEIRS HELL-O.

    Really think about what you’re saying. If Israel was really doing that, all of the Palestinians would be dead by now. Wars do take innocent lives but to say they’re intentionally targeting children is absurd and unsubstantiated. It is the terrorists who are hiding among Palestinian children as has been documented with photographs by the press. It is the Palestinian terrorists who are deliberately targeting Israeli civilians. That cannot be denied.

    As for the illegal settlements, what other choice does Israel has when the terrorists use those lands to launch rocket attacks? Is Israel suppose to just stand by and hope none of the rockets hit their citizens? The Palestinians can’t perpetuate this war by continuing terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians and then cry foul when their homes are bulldozed by the Israeli. Israel has warned them again and again: commit terrorist attacks against us and we’ll bulldoze your home. The Palestinians don’t listen. Rather than negotiate peace, they want the war to continue. Give them money and land for peace, and they’ll use that money to buy more weapons to kill Jews. They are more to blame than the Israelis are.

    JT even Sandmonkey supports Obama and it looks like Israel does now too by the likes of comment 66.

    Read Sandmonkey’s latest post talking about how he supports Obama and it is the best thing for America and don’t forget he is pro Israeli American disgruntled etc.

    So get a life or get with the program

    It is sad when you rely on a blogger from the Middle East to shape your opinion on an American presidential candidate. Can’t you think for yourself or do you let Sandmonkey be the final word on American politics? Sandmonkey is smart and I like him but he does not follow the day to day presidential news like I do.

    Reply
  61. JT
    June 9, 2008 at 3:30 pm

    Very Clean Indeed and Obama ForEver are the same person.

    Umm because they go around killing and maiming innocent children and building illegal settlements on land THAT IS NOT THEIRS HELL-O.

    Really think about what you’re saying. If Israel was really doing that, all of the Palestinians would be dead by now. Wars do take innocent lives but to say they’re intentionally targeting children is absurd and unsubstantiated. It is the terrorists who are hiding among Palestinian children as has been documented with photographs by the press. It is the Palestinian terrorists who are deliberately targeting Israeli civilians. That cannot be denied.

    As for the illegal settlements, what other choice does Israel has when the terrorists use those lands to launch rocket attacks? Is Israel suppose to just stand by and hope none of the rockets hit their citizens? The Palestinians can’t perpetuate this war by continuing terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians and then cry foul when their homes are bulldozed by the Israeli. Israel has warned them again and again: commit terrorist attacks against us and we’ll bulldoze your home. The Palestinians don’t listen. Rather than negotiate peace, they want the war to continue. Give them money and land for peace, and they’ll use that money to buy more weapons to kill Jews. They are more to blame than the Israelis are.

    JT even Sandmonkey supports Obama and it looks like Israel does now too by the likes of comment 66.

    Read Sandmonkey’s latest post talking about how he supports Obama and it is the best thing for America and don’t forget he is pro Israeli American disgruntled etc.

    So get a life or get with the program

    It is sad when you rely on a blogger from the Middle East to shape your opinion on an American presidential candidate. Can’t you think for yourself or do you let Sandmonkey be the final word on American politics? Sandmonkey is smart and I like him but he does not follow the day to day presidential news like I do. Do your own research and due diligence.

    Reply
  62. JT
    June 9, 2008 at 3:31 pm

    Cedric,

    On another note, it seems incredible that after 9/11 people like JT still do not know about the history of Bin Laden’s connection to the CIA, that’s been on TV and newspapers for the past 7 years. There’s even a Tom Hanks movie about it now.

    The CIA did not fund Osama Bin Laden. The United States supported the Afghans fighting the Soviets, as did countries like Saudi Arabia, the UK, Pakistan, China, and Egypt. There were two groups of “Afghans” who were fighting the Soviet: the native Afghans which the US did support, and the “Afghan Arabs” who came into Afghanistan to fight in their jihad. Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda belonged to this second group, the “Afghan Arabs.” They were more disruptive and the Afghans hated them. The Afghans appreciated the money coming in from the Arab states but hated the fact that many Afghan Arabs were trying to convert them to their more radical form of Islam. Freelance cameraman Peter Jouvenal recalls: “There was no love lost between the Afghans and the Arabs. One Afghan told me, ‘Whenever we had a problem with one of them we just shot them. They thought they were kings.’”

    Ayman Al-Zawahari, Al-Qaeda’s #2 in command, confirmed that the Afghan Arabs did not received any funding from the US during the war in Afghanistan. In the book that was described as his last will, Knights Under the Prophet’s Banner, which was serialized in December 2001 in Al-Sharq al-Awsat, al-Zawahiri says the Afghan Arabs were funded with money from Arab sources, which amounted to hundreds of millions of dollars.

    Abdullah Anas, an Algerian who was one of the foremost Afghan Arab organizers and the son-in-law of Abdullah Azzam, has also confirmed that the CIA had no relationship with the Afghan Arabs. Speaking on the French television program Zone Interdit on September 12, 2004, Anas stated:

    “If you say there was a relationship in the sense that the CIA used to meet with Arabs, discuss with them, prepare plans with them, and to fight with them — it never happened..”

    Reply
  63. JT
    June 9, 2008 at 3:34 pm

    Cedric,

    On another note, it seems incredible that after 9/11 people like JT still do not know about the history of Bin Laden’s connection to the CIA, that’s been on TV and newspapers for the past 7 years. There’s even a Tom Hanks movie about it now.

    The CIA did not fund Osama Bin Laden. The United States supported the Afghans fighting the Soviets, as did countries like Saudi Arabia, the UK, Pakistan, China, and Egypt. There were two groups of “Afghans” who were fighting the Soviet: the native Afghans which the US did support, and the “Afghan Arabs” who came into Afghanistan to fight in their jihad. Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda belonged to this second group, the “Afghan Arabs.” They were more disruptive and the Afghans hated them. The Afghans appreciated the money coming in from the Arab states but hated the fact that many Afghan Arabs were trying to convert them to their more radical form of Islam. Freelance cameraman Peter Jouvenal recalls: “There was no love lost between the Afghans and the Arabs. One Afghan told me, ‘Whenever we had a problem with one of them we just shot them. They thought they were kings.’”

    Ayman Al-Zawahari, Al-Qaeda’s #2 in command, confirmed that the Afghan Arabs did not received any funding from the US during the war in Afghanistan. In the book that was described as his last will, Knights Under the Prophet’s Banner, which was serialized in December 2001 in Al-Sharq al-Awsat, al-Zawahiri says the Afghan Arabs were funded with money from Arab sources, which amounted to hundreds of millions of dollars.

    Abdullah Anas, an Algerian who was one of the foremost Afghan Arab organizers and the son-in-law of Abdullah Azzam, has also confirmed that the CIA had no relationship with the Afghan Arabs. Speaking on the French television program Zone Interdit on September 12, 2004, Anas stated:

    “If you say there was a relationship in the sense that the CIA used to meet with Arabs, discuss with them, prepare plans with them, and to fight with them — it never happened..”

    Milt Bearden served as the CIA station chief in Pakistan from 1986 to 1989, where he was in charge of running the covert action program for Afghanistan. In his memoirs titled “The Main Enemy: The Inside Story of the CIA’s Final Showdown with the KGB,” Bearden says the United States, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, China, Egypt, and the UK were “major players” in the effort to aid the Afghans. Bearden writes:

    “Contrary to what people have come to imagine, the CIA never recruited, trained, or otherwise used Arab volunteers. The Afghans were more than happy to do their own fighting — we saw no reason not to satisfy them on this point.” (The Main Enemy, p. 243)

    Reply
  64. JT
    June 9, 2008 at 3:36 pm

    Cedric,

    On another note, it seems incredible that after 9/11 people like JT still do not know about the history of Bin Laden’s connection to the CIA, that’s been on TV and newspapers for the past 7 years. There’s even a Tom Hanks movie about it now.

    The CIA did not fund Osama Bin Laden. The United States supported the Afghans fighting the Soviets, as did countries like Saudi Arabia, the UK, Pakistan, China, and Egypt. There were two groups of “Afghans” who were fighting the Soviet: the native Afghans which the US did support, and the “Afghan Arabs” who came into Afghanistan to fight in their jihad. Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda belonged to this second group, the “Afghan Arabs.” They were more disruptive and the Afghans hated them. The Afghans appreciated the money coming in from the Arab states but hated the fact that many Afghan Arabs were trying to convert them to their more radical form of Islam. Freelance cameraman Peter Jouvenal recalls: “There was no love lost between the Afghans and the Arabs. One Afghan told me, ‘Whenever we had a problem with one of them we just shot them. They thought they were kings.’”

    Ayman Al-Zawahari, Al-Qaeda’s #2 in command, confirmed that the Afghan Arabs did not received any funding from the US during the war in Afghanistan. In the book that was described as his last will, Knights Under the Prophet’s Banner, which was serialized in December 2001 in Al-Sharq al-Awsat, al-Zawahiri says the Afghan Arabs were funded with money from Arab sources, which amounted to hundreds of millions of dollars.

    Abdullah Anas, an Algerian who was one of the foremost Afghan Arab organizers and the son-in-law of Abdullah Azzam, has also confirmed that the CIA had no relationship with the Afghan Arabs. Speaking on the French television program Zone Interdit on September 12, 2004, Anas stated:

    “If you say there was a relationship in the sense that the CIA used to meet with Arabs, discuss with them, prepare plans with them, and to fight with them — it never happened..”

    Milt Bearden served as the CIA station chief in Pakistan from 1986 to 1989, where he was in charge of running the covert action program for Afghanistan. In his memoirs titled “The Main Enemy: The Inside Story of the CIA’s Final Showdown with the KGB,” Bearden says the United States, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, China, Egypt, and the UK were “major players” in the effort to aid the Afghans. Bearden writes:

    “Contrary to what people have come to imagine, the CIA never recruited, trained, or otherwise used Arab volunteers. The Afghans were more than happy to do their own fighting — we saw no reason not to satisfy them on this point.” The Main Enemy, page 243

    Reply
  65. JT
    June 9, 2008 at 3:38 pm

    Umm because they go around killing and maiming innocent children and building illegal settlements on land THAT IS NOT THEIRS HELL-O.

    Really think about what you’re saying. If Israel was really doing that, all of the Palestinians would be dead by now. Wars do take innocent lives but to say they’re intentionally targeting children is absurd and unsubstantiated. It is the terrorists who are hiding among Palestinian children as has been documented with photographs by the press. It is the Palestinian terrorists who are deliberately targeting Israeli civilians. That cannot be denied.

    As for the illegal settlements, what other choice does Israel has when the terrorists use those lands to launch rocket attacks? Is Israel suppose to just stand by and hope none of the rockets hit their citizens? The Palestinians can’t perpetuate this war by continuing terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians and then cry foul when their homes are bulldozed by the Israeli. Israel has warned them again and again: commit terrorist attacks against us and we’ll bulldoze your home. The Palestinians don’t listen. Rather than negotiate peace, they want the war to continue. Give them money and land for peace, and they’ll use that money to buy more weapons to kill Jews. They are more to blame than the Israelis are.

    JT even Sandmonkey supports Obama and it looks like Israel does now too by the likes of comment 66.

    Read Sandmonkey’s latest post talking about how he supports Obama and it is the best thing for America and don’t forget he is pro Israeli American disgruntled etc.

    So get a life or get with the program

    It is sad when you rely on a blogger from the Middle East to shape your opinion on an American presidential candidate. Can’t you think for yourself or do you let Sandmonkey be the final word on American politics? Sandmonkey is smart and I like him but he does not follow the day to day presidential news like I do.

    Reply
  66. JT
    June 9, 2008 at 3:39 pm

    Obama is sent from God, McCain is not!

    Oh, my god. You’re out of your mind. If Obama is sent from God, then why has he associated with hate mongers and terrorists? Why has he lied so much?

    Reply
  67. JT
    June 9, 2008 at 8:08 pm

    Sorry for the double posts.

    VERY CLEAN INDEED,

    Here is a small list of recent contributions Israel has made to the world.

    - In 2003, an Israeli medical team spent two weeks in China performing open-heart surgery on children there.

    - An Israeli company has developed a blood test that diagnoses heart attacks over the telephone.

    - An Israeli research team found that the combination of electrical stimulation and chemotherapy can make cancerous metastases disappear.

    - Israel has developed the first flight system to protect aircraft against a missile attack.

    - An Israeli company has developed a computerized system for ensuring proper administration of medications in hospital, thus eliminating the possibility of human error.

    - Researchers in Israel have developed a new device that directly helps the heart pump blood, an innovation with the potential to save the lives of congestive heart failure patients.

    - Israeli scientists have developed the first computerized, no-radiation, diagnostic instrumentation for breast cancer.

    - Israeli engineers and agriculturalists developed a drip irrigation system minimizing the amount of water used to grow crops, and shared the technology with farmers in Nigeria.

    - The Pentium MMX Chip was designed in Israel at Intel.

    - Voice mail technology was developed in Israel.

    - An Israeli “super-sensor” has been installed in a certain make of mattresses to control snoring.

    - Israeli researchers discovered the molecular trigger that causes psoriasis.

    - An Israeli doctor headed the Merck team that developed a vaccine against cervical cancer.

    - The Ex-Press shunt, developed in Israel, is being used by people suffering from glaucoma.

    - The late actor Christopher Reeve called Israel the “world centre” for research on paralysis treatment.

    - Israeli microbiologists developed the first passive vaccine against the West Nile virus.

    - Israeli stem-cell technology is being used in the U.S. to regenerate heart tissue.

    If you look deep enough, I’m sure you can find some luxuries in your life that you can thank a Jew for. They’re a very resourceful people. Hell, if I had a debilitating disease, I would look to Jewish professionals to be the first ones to find the cure.

    Reply
  68. CLEAN
    June 9, 2008 at 8:17 pm

    Holly Shit Jt, did you catch a bad case of diarrhea of the mouth with all those double posts. I wont even bother retorting because your explanation for the billions spent for constructing illegal settlements on land that is not theirs is that rockets were fired in the general vicinity. If that is the reasoning that you provide for Israel then good night JT.

    Reply
  69. JT
    June 9, 2008 at 8:53 pm

    Holly Shit Jt, did you catch a bad case of diarrhea of the mouth with all those double posts. I wont even bother retorting because your explanation for the billions spent for constructing illegal settlements on land that is not theirs is that rockets were fired in the general vicinity. If that is the reasoning that you provide for Israel then good night JT.

    You have double posts, too. It’s the spam filter used at this blog.

    You don’t make much sense because you like to twist what I actually said. I offered my explanation on why the Israelis took some lands from the Palestinians; it’s because the Palestinians use those lands from which to launch rockets at Israel. That is unacceptable. The world has given the Palestinians billions of dollars. Israel has also received billions of dollars from the US. One side uses it for research and scientific discoveries; the other uses the money to stock pile weapons so they can kill Jews or to take the money for themselves. I’ll support Israel; at least they make good use of that money and give back to humanity.

    Reply
  70. Craig
    June 9, 2008 at 9:04 pm

    Ced,

    This was to Roman but I’m jumping in anyway :P

    But you’re reasoning in a logic of perpetual war and fear.

    You throw out a lot of dismissive characterizations of other people’s thought processes. Why? What difference does it make? Are the opinions of Arabs/Muslims here based on dispassionate, unbiased and unflinchingly honest evaluations of fact? lol.

    You sound like either a supporter of terrorism or (at the least) an apologist for terrorists, the way you attack only one froup of people and criticize them for behaviors that the other group is engaging in to a much greater extent. I’m just saying…

    The existing conditions can and must be modified to allow for peace and negociation.

    Somebody has to lose, before that can happen. In every conflict (and I personally am not talking about Israel/Palestine here), attempting to establish a premature peace invariably leads to disaster. As it has MANY TIMES in the middle east. You can’t have a diplomatic solution until both sides are ready to end the conflict. It just doesn’t work that way. Especially in the middle-east, where we’ve had 50+ years of Arab leaders engaging in duplicity where they negotiate one thing with the “international community” while they openly support the complete opposite at home. How stupid are we, eh? :D

    The current statu quo of American and Israeli politics: deying Israel’s shortcomings, systematic suspiscion towards Palestine, disproportionate military retaliation (like the bombing of Beirut) only breeds more violence, strengthens Hamas and Hezbollah, and proved completely counter-productive for peace.

    Blah blah blah. Seriously. That is a lot of blah blah blah. HAMAS and Hezbollah were born of violent terrorism, and mass murder. It isn’t the rest of the world’s fault, if that is what Arabs want to support. That is kinda the problem, isn’t it? That a lot of Arabs (privately, at least) think terrorism is just fine, as long as it gets them what they want? It isn’t the kob of the US or Israel, or anyomne else, to change Arab culture. Nor do we have the capability to change Arab culture. You attribute to us more power than we have. Arabs will continue to support HAMAS and Hezbolloh for as long as it seems they are able to extort concessions from the West. The only fault for the West in that, is allowing the extortion to continue. The rest uis on Arabs and the fucked up societies they created for themselves.

    On another note, it seems incredible that after 9/11 people like JT still do not know about the history of Bin Laden’s connection to the CIA, that’s been on TV and newspapers for the past 7 years. There’s even a Tom Hanks movie about it now.

    Again, you attribute more power to the US than it has. You think Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan had good Islamic credentials, do you? As if, they just called a Jihad and Osama and comp[any showed up in Afghanistan, right? Give me a break. And I suppose Putin is the one who told bin Ladin to send his jihadis to Iraq, too? Got and swamp land ypou want to sell us, Ced?

    Why do you keep blaming the actions of violent Muslims on people other than Muslims, Ced? Is that sound reasoning? Is that rational? Isn’t that the logic of a small child? “He made me do it!!!” and such? How come we don’t blame France’s atrocious behavior on Japan? Why shouldn’t we? It’d make sense, right?

    This ignorance gives a terrifying image of McCain supporters. They’re now afraid of Barack Hussein Obama because his name is not anglo-saxon.

    Oh, really? It has nothing to do with his shady background and his association with leaders of the “Black Power” movement, does it? Or do you think people should vote for a candidate whoi is racist againts them? Is that more of your sound reasoning? Do we also expect latinos to vote for a candidate who despises latinos? Should African-Americans vote for a candidate who loathes black people? Or is it only whites who you expect to be “tolerant” of the intolerable?

    Fear and ignorance do not make for wise decisions.

    Neither do denial and self-deception…

    But rest assured that some people have an interest in maintaining you in that fear and ignorance…

    You seem to have an interest in promoting an intellectually dishonest world view. What is it? Why don’t you come clean with us, Ced? I’m not believing you concocted these nonsensical because you think that’s how things really are. You seem like a pretty smart guy. I don’t believe you think these things you tell us are true.

    so they can reach in taxpayers’ pockets to finance their wars, make juicy no-bid contracts with the US army and keep you ill-informed.

    There is some truth in that… but corporate corruption is nothing new. And an even bigger problem is Iraqi corruption, and there is absoultely NOTHING the US can do about that. I do agree with you that the amount of money the US dumped into rebuilding Iraq, and the large percenatge of it that either got siphoned off or wasted on projects that never got completed, is unconscionable. The US handling of post-invasion Iraq was absolutely incompetent.

    Without consideration for the real-life effects: rising oil prices, a dwindling US economy, and US soldiers in body bags.

    1) Rising oil prices are the “fault” of China, and to a lesser extent, India. The supply is fairly constyant, but the demand is much greater than it was 20 years ago, and continues to grow. I’m sure you are familiar with the law of supply and demand. Which makes me wonder why you are trying to blame this on Bush and Republicans? What is your motive? Care to enlighten us?

    2) US economy is dwindling due to globalization. We had 1/3 of the global economy when Bill Clinton took office. We have 1/5 of it, now. And advocates of globalization (I’m guessing you are one!) will say that 1/5 of teh global economy is more than the US deserves, anyway. So why blame this on Bush? Or on Republicans? Most conservatives I know are not fans of globalization.

    3) Soldiers die. The important thing is that they don’t have a legacy of having died in vain. For no reason. Senselessly. When I was in the Marines, I lost friends in Beirut in 1983. And Reagan walked away. It haunts me to this day. If you think the friends and families of troops who died in Iraq would pleased to see US troops withdrawn whether Iraq falls into the abyss as a result or not, you are mistaken. Some of them ( a small number, I’m guessing) may THINK taht is what they want. But 10 or 20 years from now, they will change their mind on that. Remembering that somebody died in a good cause is a lot better than remembering that somebody lost their life for nothing. Trust me on this one.

    Reply
  71. Roman Kalik
    June 9, 2008 at 10:20 pm

    Roman, you made good, valid points. But you’re reasoning in a logic of perpetual war and fear. The existing conditions can and must be modified to allow for peace and negociation. The current statu quo of American and Israeli politics: deying Israel’s shortcomings, systematic suspiscion towards Palestine, disproportionate military retaliation (like the bombing of Beirut) only breeds more violence, strengthens Hamas and Hezbollah, and proved completely counter-productive for peace.

    Pardon? And the current status-quo of regional Middle-Eastern politics (saying Israel is to blame for everything) is somehow good? And the systematic suspicion towards Palestine, Ced, is not all that systematic – there have been groundbreaking agreements and gestures since the start of the 90′s – and they have completely and utterly failed.

    Oh, and the boy star of Palestine, the favorite of European parliaments, applauded by the UN, the great Freedom Fighter Yasser Arafat? Robbed his people silly, and his wifey (you know, the one who says that Israelis poison Palestinian wells) is now the new richy-rich girl of the ME. Even has the Palestinian state jet as her own private plane.

    When do Palestinians begin making gestures, Ced? When do the Lebanese start making something resembling a country out of their mess and get their own army to secure the border? When do people in the ME realize that entering negotiations with Israel does not have to be preceded by trying to clobber it silly?

    *my* solution isn’t perpetual war. I’m far from calling my country and its various leaders perfect, but I’ll be damned if I’ll take your path – that of dismantling it because you seem to believe that everything around here is our fault. It isn’t, Ced. And the path to peace is not through an endless tirade of Israeli peaceful gestures.

    It takes two to tango, Ced. And Israel’s been quite willing to tango since the very beginning. Only “tango” doesn’t equal “hemp fandango”.

    On another note, it seems incredible that after 9/11 people like JT still do not know about the history of Bin Laden’s connection to the CIA, that’s been on TV and newspapers for the past 7 years. There’s even a Tom Hanks movie about it now.

    The connection between the two is that both shared similar short-term goals. Bin-Laden was money, Ced. Big Saudi money. He used that money of his to fund Arab volunteers willing to go and die in Afghanistan. The CIA, on the other hand, cooperated with Pakistani intelligence in aiding the Mujahideen.

    The CIA didn’t fund Osama Bin-Laden – he was, essentially, competition.

    FYI: the contacts between the CIA and Ben Laden go back to 1979 when, representing the family company in Istanbul, the CIA began paying him and his volunteers from the Muslim world for Afghan resistance against the Red Army.

    Interesting. Seeing as Bin-Laden was a rich kid with enough oil money in his back pocket to last him all the covert funding he’d ever need, your claim makes no sense whatsoever. Why would Bin-Laden take money from people he so actively despised when he was already rolling in it, so to speak?

    Reply
  72. Twosret
    June 10, 2008 at 1:45 am

    Cedric, Obama, clean

    Welcome to the right wing zionist terrorist land! they live here 24/7 and they actually believe what they write. Have fun but, if you decide to reply to this nonsense make sure you quit your day job and live on welfare or whatever they call it these days.

    Reply
  73. JT
    June 10, 2008 at 4:24 am

    Hey, Twosret!

    How’s my favorite anti-Semitic Christian doing? Have you thanked a Jew today?

    Reply
  74. Mohamed
    June 10, 2008 at 4:30 am

    Twosret,
    Actually, it’s not replying or even reading this nonsense that would make you lose your job, doing so would take an eternity, just scrolling down without reading a single comment took me like two days, thanks to JT’s posting the entire text of War & Peace above.
    By the way, did you notice? Your old buddy is back :) , they let him out again, even after he bit a huge chunk of his therapist’s ear, he managed to fool them and fake sanity again.
    And JT, buddy, even if what you wrote was the epitome of common sense, fairness and logic (which I’m sure it isn’t), do you expect anyone, seriously, anyone to keep on reading after one paragraph, knowing that they’ve got like 500 more pages (of absolute bull shit I guess) to read?

    Reply
  75. Twosret
    June 10, 2008 at 4:43 am

    Mohamed wallahi mashofto ya kharabi dah back begad LOL! akal wedan el DACTOR LOL! wallahi hamoot men el dehk dah enta mossiba mateegy ya ibni aa’la facebook :)

    JT or as someone before called you J string hehehehe

    Yes I thanked my friend Yael who warned me that her daughters Daphna and Talia class that happened to be my daughters class had lice so I didn’t send my daughter today and we went on a play date LOL

    What about you have you thanked a muslim today?

    Reply
  76. leo
    June 10, 2008 at 4:47 am

    Cedric,

    Twosret knows what she is talking about. :)

    Reply
  77. Twosret
    June 10, 2008 at 5:06 am

    leo,

    This way past your bed time ask your mommy for some lullabies songs. Try Patty Cake Patty cake or maybe humpty dumpty…..if it doesn’t work do the Numi Numi one whatever works for you.

    Where is parental control when we really need it?

    Reply
  78. CLEAN
    June 10, 2008 at 8:30 am

    Begad! Yanhar Tean, I got to change my name after reading this blog!

    I feel dirty now AAAAAhaa.

    mohamed, Twosret, no doubt these leaches do live here and actually do believe what they right.

    Its just like a typical professional group that have secret fetishes and visit BDSM sites at night. Go figure, but their kink is Zionism right wing terrorism all chocolate coated! Yum yum, NOT!

    YUUUUUUUCK

    Reply
  79. Ced da French
    June 10, 2008 at 9:19 am

    I can’t answer this J-String logorrhoea. I kinda enjoy off-line time, and those old-school 3-dimensional encounters, in Real life (Amman/Cairo anyone ?), remember those ? 3la fikra, have you thanked a secular guy today ? ;o)

    Reply
  80. leo
    June 10, 2008 at 12:32 pm

    Twosret: “This way past your bed time ask your mommy for some lullabies songs.”

    Twosret, do you even realize that time difference between your post and mine is just 19 minutes? And mine being the earliest?

    Cedric,

    Like I said before. Twosret knows what she is talking about. :)

    Reply
  81. Twosret
    June 10, 2008 at 1:05 pm

    Mohamed,

    Thank God for common dreams :) ama el hanem dih dih mankholia aa’la el akher :)

    ced and clean,

    Wait until 5 years from now and things change our little terrorist zionists will distort facts and change history and events and call Bin Laden a great man :) that is how it works for them.

    Sorry guys you wasted your time I should have warned you.

    Reply
  82. Craig
    June 10, 2008 at 6:25 pm

    Well, gee, I wait a whole 24 hours before checking this post for new comments, and what do I see when I come back? Nothing but a bunch of vicious and insulting personal attacks by the usual suspects. Are you conscio8usloy trying to destroy your “friend” Sandmonkey’s blog, Twosret? Or do you think these vile off-topic comments you make to his readers somehow add something of value here?

    Reply
  83. Craig
    June 10, 2008 at 6:27 pm

    I do think it isprobably better for your husband’s career that you come online and dump all your hostility and aggression on anonymous strangers than on his patients, though. Maybe I shouldn’t be so negative :P

    Reply
  84. Craig
    June 10, 2008 at 6:29 pm

    By the way, Ced, you haven’t answered yet. What do you think of the Arabs commenting here, and their “logical” thought processes? lol.

    Reply
  85. Twosret
    June 10, 2008 at 6:41 pm

    Ya Mohamed shed el seyfon :)

    Reply
  86. Twosret
    June 10, 2008 at 6:55 pm

    #97

    I know it is hard for you Craig after you left the army and was in trauma in Lebanon in the 80′s this is why I let you go crazy as this accident got you really bad for hating Arabs but your ethics are not army like, this is why it is great you are gone from the army as we don’t need more sadistic Abu Ghraib soldiers.

    And if you want to talk about spouses would you like me to mention yours? Or talk about your Libyan friend?

    Be my guest and I will get to your very dirty nasty laundry online.

    Reply
  87. CLEAN
    June 10, 2008 at 7:14 pm

    @ ALL COMMENTS

    Except for Ced , Mo and Twosret, and myself, there is nothing here but a pool if insecure, socially inadequate, inefficient panic ridden right wing Zionist terrorist supporters, grief stricken mal adjusted over exposed, under achievers that want an excuse for needing to feel fulfilled by supporting a masonic sacrificial killing machine which prefers to inhabit and occupy Palestine.

    OH MY GoDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!

    HELPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP!

    Reply
  88. Craig
    June 10, 2008 at 7:17 pm

    I’m not talking about “spouses”, Twosret. I’m talking about you. Or does your husband force you to engage in the kind of flagrantly abusive behavior you have a history of? I was never in the Army, and I have no Libyan friends. If you can’t even get the basics right, then how do you intend to “expose” all my dirty laundry, eh? lol.

    By the way, anyone reading these comments can see which people are “going crazy” and which are trying to be relevant.

    No comment on the behavior of your ideological allies, Ced?

    Reply
  89. Craig
    June 10, 2008 at 7:25 pm

    PS, I just went through some of the posts here from the last couple weeks. I’m gratified to see taht my prediction that you couldn’t maintain a “nice” persona for long if I stopped getting in your face about it came true, Twosret. I haven’t been on this blog in months, and yet you’ve been here making eggregious personal attacks on random people for no apparrent reason. And you don’t even pretend to be a nice person, any more. So I guess you were right all along, it was all about me making unjustifuied personal attacks on you. That is the only reason you ever get nasty. tight, Twosret? lol.

    Do you even realize how mean-spirited and out of line the things you say to people on this blog are? A little experiment: go through some of the threads you’ve been participating in here recenetly and pretend that your comments were made by somebody else, and directed at you.

    Reply
  90. Mohamed
    June 10, 2008 at 8:08 pm

    Absolutely CLEAN,
    Just a sea of ugliness.

    Reply
  91. The Sheriff
    June 10, 2008 at 10:52 pm

    @ craig.

    You have always been rude to Tworset so don’t come off as being mr. Polite all of a sudden.

    Are we to believe that your incessant stalking of her here on this blog due to her views and the simple fact that she wont go away, has finally come to an end? Even as you continue to try and stalk her now?

    She wasn’t pretending to be nice, it was even utterly beyond me how she kept so cordial for so long in the first place.

    NO! — YOU READ YOUR COMMENTS ON THREADS AND IF YOU HAD AN OUNCE OF DECENCY IN YOU, YOU WOULD BE DISGUSTED!

    Reply
  92. CLEAN
    June 10, 2008 at 10:56 pm

    Enough is enough you sick right wing Zionist professional liars.

    You guys come up with the craziest non sense, saying that we are really Tworset disguised as sock puppets etc.

    Get a life, besides exuding decibels out of your asses on here please, fuck you, and thank you!

    Reply
  93. JT
    June 10, 2008 at 11:41 pm

    CLEAN,

    It’s obvious that you and people like you are more interested in ad hominems when you lack the proofs to back up your wild opinions. Clear thinkers have seen how unhinged you have become with just a couple of posts. Your anti-Semitism comes through without any effort from me at all. They say whatever is in a person’s heart will eventually surface, and sure enough, your craziness about Jews, Judaism, and Obama have been quite eye opening. There’s not much left to discuss as you are obviously unarmed with the requisites.

    Reply
  94. Ced Frenchman
    June 11, 2008 at 12:15 am

    Craig,

    Apparently you all know each other on this blog, but I’m a bit lost as to who’s who, and who’s on which side. I don’t think it’s constructive to try to guess who’s an “ally”, who’s “Arab” and who’s a “Jew” or an Israeli, or a zionist, etc, and you’d probably be wrong most of the time, starting with me. I have only one ally: my own common sense. Arguments should make sense by and of themselves.

    So, to answer your question: a lot of people end up paranoid. Obviously, there are two different narratives since 1947-8: one is the birth of a nation under siege, the other is the Nakba.

    If we set aside the question of “who’s the first responsible ?”, we’re left with a situation of two adversaries pointing their guns at each other. From there, you have two scenarii. One: escalade, warfare, with no winners (Israel’s got the guns n nukes, but the Arabs have the numbers). The other scenario: avoid shooting and try to speak in good faith. I assure you that on both sides there are men and women of good will, tired of this war.

    On the other hand, there are people whose interest is NOT peace. I mean they have a vested interest in War. And I don’t mean in WINNING the war. I mean in maintaining a perpetual state of war and paranoia.

    Quite clearly, some political groups are not happy with either peace negotiations or winning the war. They want to maintain the status quo because they reap benefits from chaos. Also quite clearly, some military-industrial groups reap sizable profits.

    Now, about Israel occupying land “to protect itself”: there is no evidence of decisive strategic advantage of keeping the West bank occupied. If Israel “gave up” the Golan heights and the West Bank, and lifted the criminal blocade on Gaza, I don’t think the Palestinians or Syria would be MORE LIKELY to attack & invade Israel than they would be now. Agree ?

    On the other hand, there is immediate evidence that it would lower criticism vs Israel, and therefore the tensions. It would weaken the legitimacy of numerous groups who recruit terrorists on the basis of Israel’s occupation. The occupation also fuels the vast animosity against Israel of the masses in the Arab world.

    It’s not about morals, it’s about end results on war or peace.

    Reply
  95. TOO-CLEAN-StILL
    June 11, 2008 at 12:26 am

    @Craig 108, beautifully said, but you must know that it is falling on deaf ears, don’t burn yourself out. You said there are good people on both sides, i assure you that here is not the most credulous place to be searching for those who can make a difference.

    Reply
  96. Oh Shit!
    June 11, 2008 at 12:30 am

    Oh Shit,

    Sorry man!

    I meant Ced — beautifully said Ced,

    because not that craig can say anything useful unless it contains slow acting venom.

    Reply
  97. Ced Frenchman
    June 11, 2008 at 1:35 am

    that was my answer to Craig, but thanks :)

    Reply
  98. Mo
    June 11, 2008 at 2:11 am

    “it was even utterly beyond me how she kept so cordial for so long in the first place”

    Agree

    Reply
  99. JT
    June 11, 2008 at 2:58 am

    i wasn’t like that before but you all made me that way. It was a long time coming indeed!

    This is so typical of non-thinkers: they blame others for who and what they have become. They don’t take responsibility for their choices. You and the ambassador of Pakistan have something in common. She faulted the Denmark newspaper for publishing the Mohammed cartoons that “made” Pakistanis go on a killing rampage, taking eight lives and wounding as many as thirty others. She said:

    ‘I’d like to know if your newspaper is satisfied with what it has done and what it has unleashed?’

    It’s always somebody else’ fault, and never the perpetrators. People like you and the Pakistani ambassador need to grow up and take some responsibilities for your actions.

    Reply
  100. Jay
    June 11, 2008 at 3:26 am

    JT

    What do you smoke? you are implying that someone else is a non-thinker?

    Reply
  101. leo
    June 11, 2008 at 3:53 am

    Ced Frenchman @ 108,

    I enjoyed reading you post up until this (am I too obvious?):

    “Now, about Israel occupying land “to protect itself”: there is no evidence of decisive strategic advantage of keeping the West bank occupied.”

    How about this: “there is no evidence of absence of decisive strategic advantage of keeping the West bank occupied”
    Realistically unless there is a war, which will prove you being right or wrong nobody knows. And when it comes to guessing I’ll take Israel’s opinion over yours. No offense intended.

    “If Israel “gave up” the Golan heights and the West Bank,”

    Golan Heights. No, Israel should not return it. Although, I am not the one to decide.
    West Bank and Gaza. It should be given to Palestinians. Although, I am not the one to decide.

    “lifted the criminal blocade on Gaza”

    First on blockade itself. Palestinians are not locked in. They are locked out. Besides, even as we speak Palestinians attacking convoys with aid coming from Israel. Care to explain this phenomenon?
    Second, your use of word ‘criminal’. You do understand that this is matter of perception. Right? People negatively affected by lock out will agree with you. People positively affected by lock out will disagree with you.

    “I don’t think the Palestinians or Syria would be MORE LIKELY to attack & invade Israel than they would be now. Agree?”

    Disagree. What would be your excuse regarding 1948? Was it Jerusalem, Golans, Sinai, Gaza, WB, … what?

    “On the other hand, there is immediate evidence that it would lower criticism vs Israel, and therefore the tensions. It would weaken the legitimacy of numerous groups who recruit terrorists on the basis of Israel’s occupation. The occupation also fuels the vast animosity against Israel of the masses in the Arab world.”

    There is alternative option. You want your idea to be true so much you no longer see that it as baseless speculation.

    “It’s not about morals, it’s about end results on war or peace.”

    I do not doubt your honorable intentions. Your solutions however are far from reality.

    Reply
  102. JT
    June 11, 2008 at 4:57 am

    What do you smoke? you are implying that someone else is a non-thinker?

    I don’t smoke and CLEAN is a non-thinker. Someone who thinks Obama is sent from God is a non-thinker, especially given his ties to racists and terrorists. Someone who makes outrageous claims and can’t back it up with facts is a non-thinker. Someone who blames others for their own hatred of Jews is a non-thinker. CLEAN is a childish non-thinker.

    Reply
  103. This is for Ced
    June 11, 2008 at 8:12 am

    Ced i know it was you talking to cracked head craig, the spam thingy wouldnt let me post anymore. It still says my comment is awaiting moderation til now, The spam filter on this blog makes everyone look like an idiot from all the triple posts, I guess its a conspiracy from the “Yes” Joooz, because only people who are calm and collected don’t triple post and get frustrated by mistakes and the joooz are supposed be the rightful Children of God and Israel theres and all!

    Reply
  104. Ced Frenchman
    June 11, 2008 at 12:14 pm

    @leo 116,

    Thanks for you use of logic, instead of foul language. I will try to not use “moral values”, but just to see what is the best interest of Israel, in practice.

    It depends: if you believe that there is no alternative to the current state of war, I understand that you do not want to change anything. You’ve got to believe there is hope for peace, though. All things being left unchanged, this war will go on, until anihilation of one of the players (that’ll take a long, long, long war and you’re not sure to win).

    The tactics of occupation and disproportionate retaliation failed: you’re still at war.

    Israel has lost, and is losing more every day the battle of images: when you see Palestinian kids killed by automatic fire or by a bomb, this is not a victory to celebrate: it is a terrible loss, and a victory for only one kind of person: the recruiter in a terrorist organization.

    You seem to wonder why people criticise Israel more than the Palestinians. You say it’s all a matter of “perception”. Fine. But when you maintain a ratio of 10 to 1 kills (by most accounts, though the lowest account says 6 to 1), the death of Israeli kids in terrorist bombings weighs exactly that: 1 to 10. You can expect the sympathy of 1, Palestinians still get the sympathy of 10.

    Then you may say; I don’t care about perception of the outside world, this is my country. But Israel does not depend on itself: it depends on America. How long do you think Americans will be ready to finance this war and never question Israel ? That thread may run thin sooner than you expect. Yes, of course there is AIPAC. But Israel needs America to survive. America does not need Israel to survive. And in front of AIPAC, there are growing influencial lobbies and businesses with contracts in the Arab world. A fast-growing economy and a fast-growing population and disapora, with already lots of support in the rest of the world.

    It is not a matter of perception that when Israel disproportionately retaliated against the civilans of Beirut in 2006, the outcome was an immediate surge of the influence and popularity of Hezbollah and Hassan Nasrallah, till this day, not only in Lebanon but in the whole Arab world. Therefore, it was terrible tactics for Israel itself. I was good tactics only for those in Israel who want to maintain fear and paranoia, and reap the political benefits.

    These Israeli leaders may not have the best interest of Israel in mind, but the best interest of their party, and their political carreer.

    Reply
  105. This is for Ced
    June 11, 2008 at 1:58 pm

    I love reading Ced’s comments. Ced for Arab league head or runnoing mate with Sarkozy or Obama McCain ticket…

    Reply
  106. Twosret
    June 11, 2008 at 2:39 pm

    “How long do you think Americans will be ready to finance this war and never question Israel ?”

    The day will come when America’s best interest is not in the Middle East and then Israel will not be the so called powerful Israel because Israel is nothing without America. Then All right wing zionist terrorist will reap what they saw.

    Also, the right wing zionists here in America are getting exposed and their betrayal to America by putting Israel best interest first will fire back at them. The world is changing and there are bigger players in the scene.

    I’m sure Israelis will blame the Arabs and the whole world on their misery then and make the whole world feel guilty for them.

    They have created nothing but enemies around them and with a leadership like Olmert and Sharon and their corrupt presidents they won’t be happy campers.

    And for some here to justify the horrible situation America is in from every aspect is a B.S. as the whole world knows that the situation we are in is due to some war mongers who will justify destruction, death, and failure for the sake of Israel security.

    Reply
  107. leo
    June 11, 2008 at 4:49 pm

    I will try to not use “moral values”, but just to see what is the best interest of Israel, in practice.

    Let me tell you before hand. It is impossible to be impartial. We will always have our biases and will always be effected by them. However, it is possible to be reasonably compromising regardless.

    It depends: if you believe that there is no alternative to the current state of war, I understand that you do not want to change anything.

    Actually it is not I who does not believe in alternative to war. History shows that Israel made quite a few peaceful gestures yet everything was either ignored or construed as weakness and prompted violence.
    As an example I would like to offer this. Arabs lost a lot of territory after 1967 war. Much of this very territory is being disputed right now.
    However, what is not widely known is the fact that Israel offered to return most (with obvious exception of Jerusalem) of it almost immediately after 1967 war ended. To know what happened next you can research on your own if you Google for ‘three famous Khartoum conference 1967′ for example (do not use quotes in your query).
    And this is just one example. Most recent one would be Gaza. And if it wasn’t for Hamas’s violence WB would’ve been next. It was in plans already.
    Bottom line. Israel does its part to reach piece. It does not have partner to talk to.

    You’ve got to believe there is hope for peace, though. All things being left unchanged, this war will go on, until annihilation of one of the players (that’ll take a long, long, long war and you’re not sure to win).

    Yes, I do hope for peace. For the rest, Jews are very patient people. They waited for 2000 years for the right moment to come home. What is another 100 or 200 years?

    The tactics of occupation and disproportionate retaliation failed: you’re still at war.

    Israel is at war since May, 14th of 1948. At war, which was imposed on it. At war, which has no end in sight. BTW, “disproportionate retaliation” is matter of perception too. I’ll explain later.

    Israel has lost, and is losing more every day the battle of images: when you see Palestinian kids killed by automatic fire or by a bomb, this is not a victory to celebrate: it is a terrible loss, and a victory for only one kind of person: the recruiter in a terrorist organization.

    Jews were never afforded good image to begin with. Not much to lose in this area.

    You seem to wonder why people criticize Israel more than the Palestinians.

    Actually, no. People had given up on Palestinians being able to amount to anything. Nothing is expected of them. Israel on another hand has totally different renome. Everybody knows it is country, which is ruled by law and unlike Palestinians it can be held accountable. Besides, people tend not to see very far. What they see is that Palestinians are underdogs who were put into this bad situation by Israelis. What they do not see is that Palestinians are nothing more than gun fodder for their Arab brothers in the war against Israel.

    You say it’s all a matter of “perception”. Fine. But when you maintain a ratio of 10 to 1 kills (by most accounts, though the lowest account says 6 to 1), the death of Israeli kids in terrorist bombings weighs exactly that: 1 to 10. You can expect the sympathy of 1, Palestinians still get the sympathy of 10.

    I never liked this numbers game. One dead is one dead. It is somebody’s beloved person and somebody’s grief. However, if we are talking about perception here is different idea for you. There are 5M Jews surrounded by 300M Arabs. Ratio of 1:60. By sacrificing 10 Arabs to kill 1 Jew Arabs still come out ahead in their quest to rid world of filth.

    Then you may say; I don’t care about perception of the outside world, this is my country. But Israel does not depend on itself: it depends on America. How long do you think Americans will be ready to finance this war and never question Israel? That thread may run thin sooner than you expect. Yes, of course there is AIPAC. But Israel needs America to survive. America does not need Israel to survive. And in front of AIPAC, there are growing influential lobbies and businesses with contracts in the Arab world. A fast-growing economy and a fast-growing population and Diaspora, with already lots of support in the rest of the world.

    First, to clarify few things. I am not Israeli, I am American. Still, if it were question of life or death I would’ve said ‘screw whole world, it is my country’. I hope you will not argue that it would be true practically for everybody. You do not have to be American or Israeli for that.
    Israel was surrounded by blockade up until approx. 1956. Then to lesser extent was blockaded up until early 70s. There are still countries refusing recognize Israel. What ever Israel was able to accomplish during that period was without outside help. So, you can imagine Israelis would know how to survive while being alone.
    Yes, America helps a lot and America’s help is very important and if it were to stop it would’ve been very hard for Israel to overcome. As to not being able to surviving without America’s help. I wouldn’t go that far.
    Few reasons. One Israel’s deterrence factor. Everybody understands when survival is on the table anything goes. Two, as long as there is commerce (simply put) Israel has pretty good change to remain. Three, there is opposite trend actually, more and more of former foes recognize and are willing to have business with Israel.

    It is not a matter of perception that when Israel disproportionately retaliated against the civilians of Beirut in 2006, the outcome was an immediate surge of the influence and popularity of Hezbollah and Hassan Nasrallah, till this day, not only in Lebanon but in the whole Arab world. Therefore, it was terrible tactics for Israel itself. I was good tactics only for those in Israel who want to maintain fear and paranoia, and reap the political benefits.

    Well, you will be surprised but it is matter of perception too. Wars are fought to kill people, remember. To kill people and destroy enemy’s economic base in order to achieve set goals. If goals are not reached it means tools weren’t adequate for the job. Now try to remember that Goldwasser and Regev are still missing, HA is still there and Nasrallah is still with us. So, when you say response was disproportionate I am inclined to agree but my motives would be completely different than yours.
    BTW, popularity of Hezbollah and Nasrallah in Arab world is irrelevant as far as I am concerned. Besides after two years since war end I’d say it is dwindling and fast. HA needs action to survive but they can’t afford one. Not in Israel and not in Lebanon. I’ll just sit back, relax and watch how thing tend to themselves.

    These Israeli leaders may not have the best interest of Israel in mind, but the best interest of their party, and their political career.

    And when that happens we usually de-elect them next time around. And unlike us Israelis even kick some of them out before time.

    Reply
  108. Ced
    June 11, 2008 at 9:40 pm

    I just found your interesting answer. I find it full of interesting clues on the psyche of American zionism.

    It made me research a bit too. It is true that after 1973, US assistance quadrupled. But it was already quite big before that (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/U.S._Assistance_to_Israel1.html).

    One thing I did not know though, is the embargo on weapons in the 50′s and 60′s.

    You’re very mistaken on one thing: HA’s power is not “dwindling fast”. Check what happened last month in Lebanon. And their popularity is very relevant to stability in the region. I suggest you travel around the region if you can, to see for yourself.

    Reply
  109. Clean-Machine
    June 11, 2008 at 9:51 pm

    LEO BABY, DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THIS, WHAT YOU WROTE?

    “Israel is at war since May, 14th of 1948. At war, which was imposed on it. At war, which has no end in sight. BTW, “disproportionate retaliation” is matter of perception too. I’ll explain later.”

    Imposed on it? Are you completely mad?

    Does the 3 terms 1.) Terrorism, 2.) Haggana, 3.) 1948 mean anything to you?

    If that isn’t instigation then I don’t know what the hell is?

    Plus this one is beautiful …

    “There are still countries refusing recognize Israel. What ever Israel was able to accomplish during that period was without outside help”

    Mwhaahaaaaaha….yeah right!

    Reply
  110. leo
    June 12, 2008 at 2:32 am

    Ced @ 124,

    [i]“You’re very mistaken on one thing: HA’s power is not “dwindling fast”. Check what happened last month in Lebanon. And their popularity is very relevant to stability in the region. I suggest you travel around the region if you can, to see for yourself.”[/i]

    Yes, I could be wrong and only time will tell. However, I feel optimistic because I was not wrong once before. I always believed it is only matter of time before HA will turn its weapons on Lebanese themselves and sure enough it had happened few weeks before. By doing so HA cashed in last of their chips. Their motto ‘We are Resistance. Our weapons have never been used and will never be used against Lebanon.’ is no longer true.
    To add more. I am Lebanon outsider, yet I frequent number of Lebanese blogs, pro and anti Hezbollah. I can tell you that in two years since end of war opinions and expressions have changed. At first you could not find single post not mentioning-praising Divine Victory. Today you will probably have difficulty finding post not criticizing HA in one way or the other. It is true I do not come to ME often but if you think HA popularity is as it was right after the war you need to update your info. Most important popularity is within Lebanon and it suffered most. If is HA’s base and HA is endangering it.

    That is why I’d rather not interfere and let nature take its course. I do not think we will need to wait for more than a year to see whether I am right or wrong.

    Reply
  111. Ced
    June 12, 2008 at 7:31 am

    Barack “Saddam” Hussein Obama also shares the name of Israeli minister of Defense Ehud Barak. Mmmm…. suspicious ! :D

    Reply
  112. Stephanie Russo
    June 17, 2008 at 1:55 am

    You know, sometimes you really don’t know who you are dating and what motivates them. But you can check them out if you want for free. It’s not hard to Google someone or whatever and see what they have been up to. Most of the time, it’s nothing, but it’s that once in a thousand change that there is. And if there is, wouldn’t you like to know? Me too :)

    Reply
  113. James I. Nienhuis
    June 23, 2008 at 11:40 am

    I’ve been blogging about a great idea for bumper stickers, billboards, t-shirts, and actually, simple and short tv and radio spots, saying merely:

    Obama Odinga
    (google it)

    Read more at http://DancingfromGenesis.com, and if you’d like to know the ancient timekeeping system from which our modern nautical mile mapping system sprung, see article #2 at http://IceAgeCivilizations.com.

    Reply

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