On the beauty requirement of candidates wives

I want you to think about this: There is a theory that states that the wife of any successfull political candidate has to be uglier than him or at the very least in the same realm of attractiveness, because if she is prettier than him, then for some reason women won;t vote for him. This is why John McCain will lose, because his wife is too pretty for him (and a heiress, of a beer empire, that motherfucker lucked out), while Obama will win, because he is a good looking dude and Michelle, well, she looks pretty busted. She looks-as one of my friends so eloquently put it- as if her face was hit by a bus. Women who look like that are the reason why we have dentists.

If you doubt that, think of the last 10 presidential elections, the candidates and their wives, and see who won. And since many of you will bring up Jackie O, please remember that her Husband was John Fuckin Kennedy, and he was scoring major Hollywood trim that was far prettier than her. So yeah, one could argue that he is at the very least equally attractive to her. So the theory holds. Come on, try it. Test it out. I dare you!

Comments

  1. 1 mean
    2 rude
    3 racist (typical of caucusoid/arab egyptians) BLACK IS BEAUTIFUL
    4 down right base

    crawl back in your hole and have a drink!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I nominate SM for Captain of the SPANISH TEAM!!!!!!!!!

  2. Interesting theory.

    I wonder if our ladies will agree.

  3. Rosalynn Carter was hotter than Jimmy
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/TitoCarter1978.jpg/406px-TitoCarter1978.jpg

    She must have married him for his nuts.

  4. CarpetCaptain says:

    If that theory was true Clinton would’ve had to serve more terms than Mubarak and Bush should hurry up and marry Condy for a guaranteed constitutional change allowing indefinite terms :)

  5. Radwa,
    Racist? Are you sure? I mean I would say slightly sexist. But racist? I am sorry, I love black women, but that one is really ugly, and she does need a dentist. When was good dental care racist?

  6. Racist and stupid.

  7. Hmm, 2 replies marking this post as racist… Just how do you figure?

  8. Roman Kalik says:

    Um, radwa? Anty? What does racism have to do with Sandmonkey’s assessment of Michelle Obama’s appearance? It had nothing to do with her being black. Nothing at all. What-so-ever.

    In any case, an amusing theory.

  9. Racist-shmacist.

    It is like somebody saying “I am not gay/black/Jew/Arab/…, not that there is anything wrong with that”.
    You can pretty safely guess this person tries to hide the fact of own bigotry.

  10. If by ‘racist’ you mean ‘hilarious,’ then yeah, I would have to agree.

    And SM some retards would call you ‘racist’ if you happen to disagree with his defeatist foreign policy too, not just Michelle’s dental care. So just laugh it off…

    btw – Arab-speakers, sadly, are some of the most racist people around.

  11. peter for a copt who always screams the sky is falling you seem very crass…SM draws on plantation racism you would not be familiar with!!!!! He is hinting that mrs obama looks like aunt jemimah…..

  12. Lynn, that’s not what I got from his post.

    You don’t know any white people with bad teeth?

  13. Blacks are stereotyped as having bad teeth, now? I always thought it was the British who had infamously bad dental hygiene!?

  14. ‘blacks’ & ‘whites’……….what is this 1968!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! might as well call people ‘orientals’ instead of rugs….

    But i digress michelle is a ‘dog’ regardless of hue.

  15. Mike Nargizian says:

    Yeah great theory except for 1 problem…
    Richard Dick Nixon was President twice and probably won the 1960 election too… and his wife was a pretty good looking regal woman.. and anyone/thing was/is better looking than him…

    Also – I disagree with you on McCain… many women have seen pictures of him before and after he came back from Vietnam when he looked like a Hollywood movie star in a war movie…
    Second, his wife isn’t “good looking” now… she may have been at 1 point… but now she looks like a frozen ice queen… she looks very cold and angry… and if anything I was thinking that she could be a detriment to him because of that…
    Jackie O was never “hot” she was classy and nice looking…

  16. I didn’t know that the role of the first lady included modeling or beauty contest. Shallow indeed!

  17. Soor Monkey. Your taste in women suck. i have to agree with Mike Nargizian.

    his wife isn’t “good looking” now… she may have been at 1 point… but now she looks like a frozen ice queen… she looks very cold and angry

  18. That’s not a good pic, twosret. She looks like she has something stuck in her behind. And considering where the future(?) Prez is standing…

  19. ” He is hinting that mrs obama looks like aunt jemimah…..”

    SM’s Quote about Michelle:
    “as if her face was hit by a bus. Women who look like that are the reason why we have dentists.”

    http://msnbcmedia1.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/070730/070730_obama_hmed_2p.h2.jpg

    As a descendant of slave owners I have no idea where you got that one. She’s angry, ugly, classless and just wait until Barry loses (in part thanks to her), then you’ll really see what she’s made of. Aunt Jemimah? SM doesn’t come close to saying Michelle looks like Aunt Jemimah, You’re the one being racist. Hell, Aunt Jemimah is attractive compared to Mrs. Obama! Leave her out of it.

  20. tedders, what’s wrong with you? You don’t see how SM ‘draws on plantation racism’ from that sentence you quoted?? What are you, illiterate?

  21. I’d just like to ask some of the above commenters, is there anything anybody can say against Mr. and Mrs. Obama without being labelled as racist, if he isn’t black, or as a “crab in a barrel”, if he is? Anything?
    This is only one, and not even the most important reason why I don’t want Obama elected. Enforcers of political correctnesss had left the US president as just about the only subject of free criticism. But if Obama gets the position, goodbye to this last island of free speech! Because blacks cannot be criticized.

  22. CarpetCaptain says:

    This is one of my favourite cultural statements that my black friends and I have always agreed on and you can blame that on Rio! I think we can all agree that CR ain’t a KKK MOFO! Hell he might even vote for brotha Bin Obama.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peoffYMIqXg

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkFK2PZKa60&feature=related

  23. It’s unbelievable to me that a personal opinion by Sandmonkey about Michelle Obama’s teeth has a bunch of race baiters coming out of the woodwork with pitchforks and torches. How is making fun of one person be considered a stereotype about that person’s entire race? This thread just reaffirms once again that any disparaging remarks against the Obamassiah or his wife will automatically and preemptively be condemned as racist. It is this very race card which the Obamassiah and his wife have played that helped them get to where they are today, and it is the same race card that his worshipers are using against his critics. The Master has taught his students well. There are a bunch of racists posting at this blog, but Sandmonkey isn’t one of them.

  24. wow ‘SAD Monkey’ has sycophants just as racist as he, Dixie Teddy please dont boast your southern ‘plantation cred’ on the web!!!!! You guys are sad.

    nuff said.

  25. gail, is he supposed to be ashamed of where he’s born? he was probably just thinking that his ancestry might have given him an edge in determining whether a remark might be contrieved as racist or not…

    But please do elaborate on how you figure Sam was being racist in this topic – I’d love to see the logical and (reasonably) objective explanation for this instead of unfounded, subjective flaming… Put some arguements behind your words! If you can’t do this, consider yourself a sad troll.

  26. Adam B.,

    And why did you not criticize the attacks on a woman facial features f you are really logical and reasonably objective?

    How mature it is really to attack someone’s teeth or face because you disagree with their political views?.

  27. Twosret,

    Even though I agree with your point of view in general, comments on this thread have to be viewed in context of thread’s subject. Which is relationship between first lady’s looks and first man’s popularity.

  28. Michelle Obama is FUGLY, take that you race baiters!

  29. Just a whole lot of crap!!! Dont ye have more intelligent things to say about the election?? If not rearrange your bookmarks and add NYT, WOP, Huff Post etc. and Kick out the National Enquirer, Fox, Peoples Magazine and all the other yellow press farts!!!

    McSame knows that he can only win if the whole show gets down to a cheap carnival game, with ads like Hilton and Spears comparisons and a whole lot of other crap coming soon! Ye bet!

    Yack!

    P.S. and then to be a lil racist for a change. The muslim ideal woman is more a buxom type model, isnt it? So how about all the big booped mama types like Mamie Eisenhower, the Trumen woman, Lady Bird Johnson and last but not least Baba Bush? Arent they all smashin good looking broads for your muslim guys…?

  30. Maybe she has done something different with her hair, but Michell Obama looks damn hot in this picture.

    http://www.harpersbazaar.com/cm/harpersbazaar/images/12_052HB_27JUN08_049-de-54167004.jpg

  31. Twosret->

    …but your comment has nothing to do with the post. Sam is comparing the looks of the president and his wife with his popularity. That’s neither racist nor sexist, since he he takes into account the looks of both the man and the woman and doesn’t hint at the race of any of the candidates… So why would any comment about womens’ facial features be at odds with an objective comment?

    Methinks you have your own agenda and just don’t recognize it…

  32. I dunno, I think Mrs. Bush looks a lot better than W. I think he married up in the looks department.

  33. SM attacked the looks of a lot of women who aren’t the same ethnicity as him. Why is it only what he said about Michelle Obama that is racist? That’s just silly. Some of you are exposing your own racism with that hypocrisy.

  34. Agenda? what agenda Adam? I didn’t agree that the comment was racist I only said it is shallow and rude to call someone ugly because people disagree with their views.

    Someone like you who speaks with such wise logic should not have a problem understanding my point. My comment has nothing to do with the post really?

  35. Why do people think Obama is “black”? He is precisely half African and half European. He is just as much “white” as “black”.

    I doubt if an African racist such as Mugabe would accept Obama as African.

  36. Don I guess you haven’t studied american history (or just dozed off it is quite boring.) A drop of african blood made you black in the land of the free…ie terms like passing and high yellow were often bandied about. Authors like Langston Hughes have written about such racism in many a poem and book.

  37. And not to sound racist (sarcastic), Condi is pretty fugly herself.

    And, as the once great Dave Chapelle would say, I love Cunnilingus Rice!

    Halle Barry is gorgeous. Does that now make me unracist? Phew, thank god.

  38. To za guy b4 me says:

    Wow peter, now did you blurt that via your Iphone in your ford F1 pickup while blasting Toby Keith? I bet you also think it’s ok to say what you said cuz ‘you have A Black friend….. Alah yerham

  39. leo,

    I’m concerned I have been reading you lately and agreeing with you much.

    What’s going on? :)

  40. BOB Says:
    August 15th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
    Maybe she has done something different with her hair, but Michell Obama looks damn hot in this picture.

    http://www.harpersbazaar.com/cm/harpersbazaar/images/12_052HB_27JUN08_049-de-54167004.jpg

    That’s because the picture is of Tyra Banks! Tyra is hot, a complete goofball but hot none the less!!

  41. “Dixie Teddy please dont boast your southern ‘plantation cred’ on the web!!!!!”

    Boast of my plantation cred? Ha, if that’s what you want to call it, I call it American history! God sure must love stupid people, he made so many of them!! ;)

  42. #39, whoever you are, probably one of the aforementioned trolls roaming this blog. Not a big fan of the iPhone – I’m a Palm OS guy, I don’t have a pick-up but I’m definitely a fan of buying ‘American’ and I don’t care much for country but I love Classic Rock.

    Now what exactly where you bitching about? Was it about how I find Halle Barry attractive??

    btw – get a name instead of using a stupid Egyptian stereotype on pronunciation.

  43. what exactly *were* you bitching about.

  44. Twosret-> But you’re still seriously putting words in Sams mouth, and not making much sence as far as the topic is concerned… He’s not making any obvious political statements or taking any sides (even though most of us regulars know where his car’s parked) so I say you’re projecting your own opinions and world-views into the subject, ie. you’re being extremely subjective…

    No matter how you slice and dice it, you’re not gonna be making much sense arguing that Sam is being particularly sexist, racist or political in this post. He may be jumping to far-out conclusions based on ridiculous “facts” but hey… he did little to hide the fact that the post was meant as a light-hearted stab at “serious” political observations…

    As for your agenda, well… Let’s just say I believe you take pride in being opposed to just about anything written in this blog, and you’ll twist anything around if it suits your purpose, no matter how nonsensical the result may be… But then again, that’s part of what makes this blog so interresting! :)

  45. Adam B,

    Do you read anything I write really or are you just ranting?. Where did I say that SM is making racist or sexist comments?

    I disagree with EVERYTHING on this blog? and I’m twisting this topic to suit my purpose? lol

    You make me giggle :)

  46. Twosret->

    Here…

    “I didn’t know that the role of the first lady included modeling or beauty contest.”

    …and particularly here…

    “And why did you not criticize the attacks on a woman facial features f you are really logical and reasonably objective?”

    …you’re pointing out your opinion that Sam is being sexist. Need I spell it out? Need I really remind you of your own posts?

    And since you’re still not putting up any arguement, choosing instead to keep up your nonsensical rant, I see no reason to change my mind regarding your agenda.

    Please, prove me wrong. It’d be nice to see some real arguments from your side for a change. You might even make me see things from your point of view if you make an effort…

  47. Adam B.,

    Let me try again :) I wasn’t saying that SM is racist or sexist I was saying that to be very beautiful is not a requirement for the first lady, his post is about president’s wives and it happened to be a woman this is why I referred to her as woman. If the topic was about Bill Clinton or JFK I would have said the same.

    Now as for my comment to you, I noticed that you are making sense that the post is not racist or sexist and you displayed some wisdom there, I was trying to note that you should also disagree about putting people down men or women because of their looks. It is ridiculous and childish.

    Putting people down for their looks is just something I don’t do.

    Hope that explains…..still trying to understand where is the agenda here :)

  48. Twosret @ 40,

    Yeah, it puzzles me too. But not to worry, all good things come to an end.

  49. Family Values says:

    According to this principle Sarkozy should be doomed to lose next time around, right?

  50. Finlander says:

    Reading this I was just wondering, in which way is Sandmonkey exactly qualified to compare the attractiveness of a man and a woman. Afterall, I have assumed that he is not an equally polarised bisexual, who could perhaps do it objectively. Additionally, even if he was, even such a concrete thing as physical attractiveness, as we have witnessed even here on this discussion board (sorry for the triple use of ‘even’!), is such a subjective thing, a thing that cannot really be completely isolated from the abstract things affecting to our being attracted to specific people. I think Sandmonkey just … as an individual happens to be more attracted to Cindy and Barack rather than John and Michelle ………. Or, just a wild guess, Sandmonkey might be getting mentally ready for his favourite candidates loss by looking possible reasons for his loss outside McCains own blurt outs. :P

    And finally, personally I just think dissing people’s looks, a matter most of us has very little control over, is just one of the nastiest things.

  51. Ha. Sandmonkey, yer wrong!

    The key qualification for an American president is the ability to survive hazing. If the first son of Mary Mild Himself were to run for President of the US of A, 45% of voters would wind up thinking He’s too radical, 45% would think think He was too old, young, experienced, or inexperienced, and 30% would think He was too stupid to be President, and they’d all think He was a liar! Yes, that does add up to more than 100%.

  52. uh, do you know that pretty president’s wives are likely to be addicted on drugs ?

    ie McCain’s, Carla in her last CD sings that her new “love” is her afghan’s shit replacement , so be aware it’s unbearable to know that your a pretty woman :mrgreen:

  53. Leo,

    Yeah let us enjoy it while it lasts :)

  54. CarpetCaptain says:

    I’d still rather be married to Carla than Michelle ;)

  55. Mike Nargizian says:

    <blockquote? Egypter

    And not to sound racist (sarcastic), Condi is pretty fugly herself.
    And, as the once great Dave Chapelle would say, I love Cunnilingus Rice!
    Halle Barry is gorgeous. Does that now make me unracist? Phew, thank god.

    I used to think Condi was attractive… something about that intelligent relaxed look she has… maybe it’s all that yoga and exercising she does… she has some kind of aura to her..
    Halle Berry of course is hot…. but you’re comparing a movie star to a Sec of State.
    Michelle does come off as angry but Barack’s handlers have put the softner media clamps on her….

  56. Mike don’t get me wrong. I’m a big fan of Condi. It’s just something about that gap-toothed smile. lol :)

  57. Sorry. The theory is bunk. At least in there here parts, women vote for the same reasons as anyone else does. All else being equal, the better looking man will get the vote, but then again, all else is never equal.

  58. Mike Nargizian says:

    Either way I was just saying that I honestly used to find her attractive…. something about her…

  59. Mike Nargizian says:

    just watched part of McCain’s interview with the Evangelical pastor…. who’s actually a good guy unlike Robertson… and he looks beat up… bad skin and those torture injuries from Vietnam are now taking their toll it appears in his movements… probably arthritis in that limb the Vietcong broke up pretty bad…. (while Jane was posing for pictures with them attesting to their human treatment!)

  60. Egyamgirl says:
  61. CarpetCaptain says:

    One word DISGRACEFUL:

    “Female travelers consider Egypt one of the worst countries in the world for harassment on the streets — second only to Afghanistan, where the Taliban forced all women behind the veil and into seclusion in their homes.

    And it’s not just women’s perceptions. The United States and Britain both warn female visitors in travel advisories that they may face unwanted attention, or sexual attacks, in Egypt.

    When Egyptian lawmakers objected to Britain’s advisory this summer, calling it a slur, Britain responded that more female British tourists were harassed and assaulted, even raped, while in Egypt than in any other country. “

  62. 61. CC -> It seems that the British foreign ministry does indeed warn about a rise in sexual assaults against female tourists in Egypt these years:

    “In 2007 Egypt was one of the countries with the highest number of cases reported to our Consular staff of British nationals who were the victim of a sexual offence. Half a dozen of the cases reported to our Consular staff involved children under the age of 18.

    There has been a noticeable increase recently in cases reported to Consular staff of British nationals who were the victim of sexual assault. Many of these assaults have occurred in what were considered to be safe environs e.g. hotel premises. The majority are connected with tourist related activities e.g. massage in spas. For more guidance about this see Rape and Sexual Assault.”

    It’s odd that the danish foreign ministry has no such warnings on their site…?

    One explanation (and I know I’m going to get a beating for this!) could be the british women themselves… When I was in Tunisia with my girlfriend some years ago, we noted the many middleaged british and german single females making good use of the fact that the local population of young men had the same urges as other young men around the world but no girls of the same age to interact with – a picture of an overweight, sweaty, 40-something german woman in leather hotpants surrounded by 10 young tunisian men of around 18 comes to mind… Shudder! I would say that “misunderstandings” are quite likely to occur!

    Oh well, just an idea, and not really an excuse anyway…

  63. “Either way I was just saying that I honestly used to find her attractive…. something about her…”

    Now I know why you and I will never get along :)

  64. CC and Adam B,

    How many women signed up for the violence against them in the US? It will be really nice for everyone to examine oneself and his/her own country before pointing at Egypt as the worst example.

  65. It is uncharacteristic of me to be so mean, so I apologize in advance:Interesting theory, however,how many women want to vote for a man with a wife so plastic, it lookslike she would melt in the sun?And you know what? Who is SM to judge anyone’s appearance?
    Look at him, he’s just plain funny looking.

  66. I think Mrs Bush is pretty. I was just thinking that the other day while watching the olympics..I think they are a stunning couple.

  67. How many women signed up for the violence against them in the US?

    It’s always about everyone else, isn’t it? Especially if everyone else is Israel and the US.

  68. Nixon was butt ugly. Mrs. Lincoln couldn’t possibly be as ugly as Abe was. Big teeth are hot on black women. Just ask Condi.

  69. CarpetCaptain says:

    I think Mrs Bush is pretty. I was just thinking that the other day while watching the olympics..”

    Laura is fairly attractive for her age. Her daughters on the other hand ….. yummmmmy

  70. Twosret -> Of course you’ve got a point… Statistics like these are definately much more interresting when you’re certain you have equilibirious material to compare with, and none of us have any idea if Egypt is overrepresented when it comes to reports filed for sexual abuse.

    That being said, I have the feeling that the british foreign ministry do not publish such warnings lightly, and have probably done their homework when it comes to comparable statistics.

    We’re not saying that Egypt is THE worst place on earth to visit as a female tourist, but the numbers speak for themselves, and even though they may be misleading to some degree, a general tendency can certainly be concluded. Other factors have a say in the matter, as I have myself pointed out, but it’s still not a pretty picture…

  71. WTS: Sense of humour. Any buyers?

  72. im afraid it doesnt plan out that way in the arab world:
    mama suzanne (too classy and educated for mubarak, her suits always beat his)
    Khadija mubarak (check out the hair, and the body)
    Asma Al Asad (sexy syrian seductress)
    Queen Rania of Jordan (adrenaline addict with a thing for guys on bikes)

    respectively: (check out suzanne mubarak with the 80′s hair!!)
    http://myhero.com/images/Women/Muburak/g1_u5542_medMuburak.jpg
    http://bagnewsnotes.typepad.com/bagnews/images/assadandasmashotsmaller.jpg
    http://static.zooomr.com/images/1071773_d712ce32d9_m.jpg
    http://img.timeinc.net/time/daily/2007/0705/a_br10questions_rania_0521.jpg

    when it comes to first ladies, we’re ahead on that one!

  73. Hi CC-
    That must be it..
    Maybe if I vote for him, she will make plastic surgery reasonably priced:)
    On another note, it gets confusing to see someone like Dolly Parton look younger than someone who could be her granddaughter. It’s kinda trippy, like we are in some time warp or something.
    In Israel, they have more of a selection..it sucks how we have to choose one of the two candidates. I’m voting for Michael Phelps.

  74. Michael Phelps is not running (he is swimming).

  75. Mike Nargizian says:

    Twosret Says:
    August 18th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
    “Either way I was just saying that I honestly used to find her attractive…. something about her…”
    Now I know why you and I will never get along

    Hahahaha… just shows my wide, varied and seasoned taste in women… even a possibility I could even find you attractive… though something tells me you talk wayyy too much, :-) – lol…

  76. Mike Nargizian says:

    Twosret
    CC and Adam B,
    How many women signed up for the violence against them in the US? It will be really nice for everyone to examine oneself and his/her own country before pointing at Egypt as the worst example.

    Leaving aside Twosret’s very predictable PC response – Are there any stats from any country or Britain regarding women’s complaints of such in the US?

    It seems very surprising and odd that Britain – (perhaps one of the most PC country on the planet in regards to making such “”judgments”" specifically regarding the Arab world and Egypt) – would issue the advisory regarding Egypt unless there was real cause for concern??

    Something tells me due to the freedom and non repression of sexuality in the US that such attacks would be the same average (low) as in Britain….
    as opposed to where women and sexuality is generally more so repressed…
    That’s not to say today’s modern day with internet porn available is prefarrable to what was 15 years ago here.

  77. “Hahahaha… just shows my wide, varied and seasoned taste in women… even a possibility I could even find you attractive… though something tells me you talk wayyy too much, :-) – lol…”

    I envy Condi for her inside beauty day in and day out, I was seriously Jealous when she referred to the war on Lebanon as a rebirth for the Lebanese people. Man! where is Khalil Gibran to witness the rebirth of civilization by Condi?!

    I highly discourage you from a wild cyber imagination to find me attractive :) and I do talk too much how did you know?! LOL

  78. Becky,

    Welcome back

    Leo,

    Phelps is awesome! I’m so proud of him.

  79. “as opposed to where women and sexuality is generally more so repressed…
    That’s not to say today’s modern day with internet porn available is prefarrable to what was 15 years ago here.”

    I think CC, bj, teddy will be best to comment on this :)

  80. “Michael Phelps is not running (he is swimming).”
    You are right, and I think i heard them say on the olympic channel he was his own country anyway. I’m sure if we put a little seed on some of his fan sites…..
    Hi 2-thankyou for the kind welcome. I also heard on the olympic channel the people on the diving team from Mexico were called “Mexicans”…bad

  81. I saw Dolly Parton in concert.
    She said,
    ” You know, it costs a lot of money to look this cheap!”
    :D

  82. Dear ladies,

    I hate to bring this news to you but I think chances for Michael Phelps to become president any time soon are seriously impaired.

    By the time he is ready to run for presidency his 18 (or more) Olympic medals will not weigh as much as this:

    “In November 2004, at the age of 19, Phelps was arrested for driving under the influence of alcohol in Salisbury, Maryland. He pleaded guilty to driving while impaired the following month and was granted probation before judgment and ordered to serve 18 months probation, fined $250, obligated to speak to high school students about drinking and driving and had to attend a Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD) meeting.”

  83. Leo -> Does a youthful incident like that have any consequence in a presidential campaign? If it does, the US has not only reached the limits of what political correctness should be allowed to dictate – it has far, far breached them!

    Tha said, I’m not sure wide shoulders and olympic medals should be the best qualification for the presidential seat… :D

  84. Obama is HALF black…Mama was white…and I really don’t give a flying fuck anyhow…

    But why is he always referred to as black? He is just as white and he is black.

    And yes…there have been MANY psychological studies about looks and people’s perceptions…

    What is the bumper sticker:

    “Good girls go to heaven, bad girls go everywhere”..

    Yep…people form many opinions based on looks and looks affect the behavior of others and good-looking people have more opportunity in life.

    Look back in the Old Testement for starters. Do you know how many references are made about folks being good looking…especially women?

    Anybody notice yet that life is unfair? Any nice fat, ugly suckers out there in the audience that want to share?

  85. Mike Nargizian says:

    Of course looks are important… that goes without saying… they take little kids and show them pictures of faces and they are more drawn to and smile when they see a more attractive looking face… it’s called human nature… and anyone bringing up that lame point needs to get a clue… that’s why ads and movies have good looking people in them…

  86. brooklynjon says:

    Twosret @78,

    I think internet porn is clearly better today than it was 15 years ago, and I’m sure tedders and CC would agree.

    bj

  87. I have to say, some of you are either: weird, hateful, or plain idiotic. Stop calling this post “racist”… there isn’t the slightest hint of racism in this post, and seriously, just because someone is talking about two people who happen to be black and white, doesn’t mean that the talk is racist.
    This theory is interesting but not accurate in my opinion. I don’t know how many people would pick a president according to this candidate’s wife. So I say no.
    And on the subject of Michelle Obama and whats-her-(plastic)-face McCain’s girl, ahm, I pick Michelle Obama no doubt. She’s a mother of, what, 3 kids? She’s nearing what I call “old”, she clearly didn’t have any work done on her, and she’s one of the people. She’s no Jackie ofcourse, but she’s reasonably pretty, and I like her attitude. McCain’s girl is meaningless. She’s just a trophy wife. I wouldn’t want her representing my country.

  88. anyuck-yuck says:

    I smell pee-pee, yuck, stincky…so stincky. Plus the gastro fluids of Egyptian immigrants to Canada and the U.S. who still have not found any happiness in their new lives due to their inferiority complexes and awareness of their origins. Buy American mwhahaa….

  89. “I think internet porn is clearly better today than it was 15 years ago, and I’m sure tedders and CC would agree.”

    I’ve never encountered internet porn.

    I have seen a few “art” sites though!! ;)

  90. Ew.

  91. brooklynjon says:

    It’s amazing, the artistic uses for- on second thought, never mind.

  92. Hamas leader’s son, now a Christian, says only Gospel can transform Mideast :

    http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?id=28663&ref=BPNews-RSSFeed0811

  93. 93. -> Without knowing exactly what she was actually wearing, that is a pretty sick sentence – is that even within the boundaries of the law over there??? I mean, if the woman doesn’t break any laws concerning indecent exposure (i don’t get the impression that she showed up in court topless!) who the hell is the judge to demand a certain dresscode?

    Someone should have her license to practise law revoked…

  94. Oh well, before I get to worked up about the moronic judgements sometimes passed in the US, I should perhaps look at the state of the law in my own country, Denmark…

    A few weeks ago, a 17 year old kid was sentenced to 4 years in prison. His crime? Passing up a complete stranger in the street 1½ years ago, knocking him unconscious, hitting and kicking him all over his body, jumping several times on his head, dragging him across the street so he could use a streetlight to get a good picture of the victim with his cellphone and finally snatching around 5 $ from his wallet, leaving the man, a father of two little kids, to die. Later he showed the pictures to some of his classmates, bragging about the murder, and his classmates congratulated him on his bravado…

    4 years for a crime of this caliber… There’s something very, very wrong with that! The panel of judges decided that the kid didn’t intend to kill his victim, and so he got off with an 8 year sentence for particularly violent assault, the sentence halved to 4 years because of his age… which means that the little psycho will be out in about 2 years because ALL sentences are eventually halved anyway… I tell you, if it was someone from my family that was kicked to death by that creep, I’d be waiting outside with a gun. This kind of complete lack of consequences is what forces people to vigilante-behavior, which is the last thing a civilized society needs!

    Needless to say, public opinion exploded in the days after the sentence, but as usual, the predictable reaction from the judges was that everyone else were just laymen and couldn’t understand the depper reasonings behind the law and their judgements…

    No shit!?!

  95. ” who the hell is the judge to demand a certain dresscode?”

    A judge has the right to “JAIL” people who don’t follow his rules in a court room. There is a long history of proper dress code in the court room. In England the still wear those gay wigs, of course Judges still wear their robes. Even if a woman attorney is dressed too racy the judge can ask her to leave and come back dressed properly. All attorney’s are aware of this, it’s the trailer trash perps who think they have the right to waltz into court in daisy dukes and a tube top!!! ;)

    http://www.ci.crowley.tx.us/index.asp?NID=183

    http://www.jeffcitymo.org/court/etiquette.html

    Get froggy with the Judge, go directly to jail!!

  96. From the woman going to jail for the short shorts article:

    “Booth had warned Arnold about her clothes in two previous court appearances, and in the last appearance had fined Arnold $50 (£25) for her attire. A court videotape of Monday’s proceeding contains the following exchange:

    “Why shouldn’t I put you in jail for contempt today?” Booth asked. “I told you twice.”

    “I’m sorry,” Arnold said.

    “No, you’re not,” Booth said. “I told you twice. I even fined you for being in contempt. Why shouldn’t I throw you in jail today? You apparently don’t care about the court’s orders.”

    “I forgot,” Arnold said.

    “How could you forget?” Booth said. “No, seriously, how could you forget? It’s a complete disregard of court order. Complete. You should go to jail today, and you’re going.”

    “Well, next time I won’t wear shorts,” Arnold said.

    “I bet you won’t,” Booth said. And with that, Booth ordered her to serve three days of temporary detention “for disregard and disrespect for court proceedings”.

    Arnold declined to be interviewed yesterday. Booth could not be reached immediately for comment.

    Arnold would have been released yesterday except that she got into more trouble when she allegedly tried to conceal a drug from Lancaster police officer Allen Weston. Court records say that Arnold moved Suboxone, a drug for treatment of opiate addiction, from her purse into her pocket.

    She was then charged with possession of a controlled substance, tampering with physical evidence, possession of drug paraphernalia, and having a controlled substance not in its original container.”

    Well, that pretty much supports my trailer trash theory!!! :) :) :)

  97. Tedders, you’re talking about dresscode for the people working at the courts, not for the people forced to show up for whatever reason… There’s a HUGE difference – this ruling is a gross violation of the woman’s rights in my opinion. If in the US arbitrary things is subject to the whim of judges, I seriously grieve for the state of your nation… :(

    Her other transgressions has nothing to do with this matter whatsoever.

  98. No Adam, it’s the dress code for appearing in court period. I’ve been lucky enough not to have been in court too many times but the people who work there dress accordingly because they know not to upset the Judge. If you are a defendant you certainly don’t want to piss off the Judge. You address the Judge as “your honor”. You (not you personally) can dress anyway you want to in court, but only you will reap the negative benefits of disrespecting the court or the Judge, a Judge has more power over you in his court than you or most people realize. Some Judges do go overboard and end up paying for their mistakes but you can bet that the Judge is a former lawyer and knows the letter of the law better than you or I. Did you have time to click the links in my first post? Here’s part of what one said:

    Court Rules:

    All cell phones must be turned OFF.
    Talking must be quiet and kept to a minimum.
    NO food or drink allowed in Courtroom.
    Dress Code:

    NO shorts
    NO tank tops
    NO tube tops
    NO inappropriate t-shirts
    NO caps
    All defendants must present themselves in a clean and professional manner.

    The judge and prosecutor has discretion over court rules and dress code.

    Failure to comply with rules and dress code may result in defendant being called last during arraignments or contempt of court.

    That’s the rules for everybody in the courtroom, defendants, employees, visitors. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying it’s wrong or right but it is the law that we all have to live with. When you walk into a Judges courtroom you put yourself at his mercy. What was the old song, “I fought the law and the law won”! Evidently the young lady was asked to dress appropriately for two days straight and on the third day the Judge said that’s it! I’m not defending it but as an adult you have to acknowledge authority or pay the penalty, as she did, there is no right given to US citizens that allows them immunity from contempt of court in a Judges courtroom.

    Here’s a case where the Judge did go too far:

    http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2007/12/01/wtf/doc474d1a409902a467248942.txt

    But the bailiffs still put the 46 people in jail because they know that a Judge is “the authority” in his/her court room. My advice would be to dress appropriately, turn off your cell phone and say, “yes sir your honor” when speaking to the Judge!! You maybe also may not want to bring any illicit drugs into the courtroom with you just in case the Judge woke up on the wrong side of the bed that morning!! LOL :)

  99. Wow, that actually sounds like a joke. If I were on a jury when the Judge said that, I would have laughed. Serious. Is this world getting crazier everyday, or am I just getting older and more aware of it? :D

    Where’s SM? Does he do this quite often? Is he kind of moody?

  100. Hey Becky, I’m pretty sure SM has an active social life outside this blog!! Being married with children I can only reminisce of the days when I enjoyed the same!! :)

  101. SM’s priority in life needs to be to entertain me through his blog!! Period.

    Where the hell else am I gonna get fair and balanced news on Egypt?

  102. Tedders, all I can say is that I am glad it’s the law in YOUR country, not mine…

    Another fundamental part of your basic human rights not respected by the US – sad!

    What do they do with homeless people and others that can’t afford the required clothes? Punishment for not being rich enough??? How about the rest of your appearance… Do you have to cut your hair if you have a mohawk hairstyle? Do you have to wear a wig if you’re bald?

    Ridiculous – american law has a seriously bad rep around the world, generally not deserved I have been told by my lawyer friends, but things like this have a tendency to overshadow every good thing your hear tenfold!

  103. I’m sure all you Egyptians will be pleased to hear that our foreign office no longer views Egypt as, statistically, the most likely place to be sexually assaulted on the planet. That dubious accolade now belongs to Greece.

    Apparently, the Greeks are a bit pissed that our youths are losing the plot on alcohol a little too much for their liking and have asked the British consulate to do something about it. The consulate suggested that it might get a little better if the Greeks acted a little more responsibly and stopped selling our youths so much alcohol.

  104. 105 -> Lol!

    Yeah, it’s actually the greeks’ fault that foreign youths can’t control their alcohol consumption…! :D Priceless!

    On the other hand, what the heck were the greeks expecting the british consulate to do with regards to controlling the amount of alcohol consumed by british nationals on holiday?!?

  105. Hehe…….. I know…… it sounds ridiculous.

    Actually, though, they did have a point. We do have a bad problem back home with our youngsters complete irresponsibility when drinking and there’s a war being fought to bring some measure of control over the whole issue. One aspect of control is to clamp down on ‘happy hour’ drinking promotions; You know…….. Buy one, get ten pints free.

    Over in the Meditteranean resorts, you can multiply that concept by a factor of ten again. Almost the entire holiday industry over that way is geared toward the Club 18-30 generation…… Which means that the alcohol is promoted aggressively and sold in ridiculous quantities at silly cheap prices. Even on the smaller scale back here in Britain, that sort of thing is a recipe for disaster. Over there, it’s a recipe for an international incident.

    There’s no doubt that we British, as a nation, have a problem with attitudes toward alcohol, a problem that seems quite particular to us as compared to the rest of mainland Europe.

    I think our diplomats had a smidgen of a point though, when they suggested to the Greeks that if they didn’t sell a bunch of arseholes enough booze to drop an elephant, for the price of a snickers bar, then they wouldn’t be capable of getting so drunk in the first place.

    Here in Liverpool, we’ve just wound up the Matthew Street Festival. There was a big campaign from the very start, with all the bar staff in all the pubs and bars wearing T-shirts, posters up all over tha place and whatknot, all proclaiming the same thing : If you’re already drunk, you ain’t getting served.

    We’re trying to get a grip on the binge drinking culture we have here. I don’t think the Greeks were paying attention :)

  106. Violation of women rights? by wearing short shorts? are women that cheap really that appearing before a judge with unacceptable clothing that most probably shows their underwear makes a woman proud?

    My mother kicked a few of those out of her court room before and I see nothing wrong with it!

    Women are more dignified than that and their rights doesn’t include showing their butts in court rooms.

  107. Twosret -> I’m impressed. Actually, I’m speechless! Ok, let me just take your troll-bait…

    What does what “makes you proud” have to do with this dscussion? What does “being dignified” have to do with this discussion? The answer… Nothing.

    I’ll admit to going overboard on the women’s rights – that should have read HUMAN rights!!!

    What we’re talking about here is a single individual being arbitrarily able to dictate the style of clothes you can wear, and does so representing the state no less!

    Should the busdriver be given the power to decide whether you can wear a cap on his bus?
    Should the lifeguard be able to dictate mandatory flipflops on his beach?
    Should police officers be able to ban people from the streets on saturday nights if they’re not dressed to party?

    No friggin’ way! People can dress anyway they like as long as they don’t break any laws concerning indecent exposure. No one has the right to tell you to dress otherwise, as long as you’re in a public area, which includes a courtroom. A courtroom is not “the judges court”… It’s OUR court. The judge has the power to implement the laws of the country, not make up his/her own laws! There are certain rules of conduct in a courtroom, sure, but that should under no circumstances include dictating what clothes the prosecuted can wear. At least, that’s how it works over here, and as I pointed out earlier, it saddens me to see that this is not the case in the US (although it does explain a lot when it comes to Guantanamo and the detainment of individuals without any form of trial…). Again, what is a homeless, pennyless person supposed to do? Steal new clothes in order to avoid prison???

    I don’t know the first thing about your mother, but since you brought her up… judging by your description, it sounds like she should be stripped of her license to practice law until she gets a better hold of reality. As for yourself, well… it comes as no surprise that you’re a fan-girl of Hamas-led Palestine and Ahmedinejad-led Iran. You fit right in!

  108. Wishbone -> I’m afraid you brits are no worse off than the rest of us…

    “Denmark and Europe’s drinking crisis (article)

    Elisabeth Rosenthal, “Europe at Tipping Point,” International Herald Tribune, 25 June 2006. Europe produces more than a quarter of the world’s alcohol, including more than half of its wine. Perhaps as a result governments have failed to regulate alcohol drinking seriously. This is despite, in the words of a report commissioned by the European Union, that the EU has “the highest proportion of drinkers and the highest level of alcohol consumption.” Especially among youth Denmark stands out as a country of problem drinkers. In Denmark the minimum drinking age is 16 (until recently 15), low taxes keep prices cheap, and advertising is unfettered. For details, see here.”

    As you can see, we have a similar problem over here…

  109. Adam B,

    resorting to personal attacks and stupid claims of Hamas-led Palestine and the clown Ahmed bla bla bla makes you a troll not me.

    As for my mom she will throw your ass in Jail if you show up at her court room showing ur butt :)

    Get a life will ya?!

  110. “Again, what is a homeless, pennyless person supposed to do? Steal new clothes in order to avoid prison???”

    Oh Geeeez!

  111. If I happened to be in that courtroom during the Judges cell phone tantrum, I would have looked around for a hidden camera.

  112. 102-
    I agree..if you’re going to start a blog you need to take care of it..like a pet
    :D
    Poor us..we are being neglected

  113. “If I happened to be in that courtroom during the Judges cell phone tantrum, I would have looked around for a hidden camera.”

    Becky, that Judge was fired!! :)

  114. I don’t speak English :)

  115. ¿No hable inglés?

  116. Mike Nargizian says:

    Twosret -
    Violation of women rights? by wearing short shorts? are women that cheap really that appearing before a judge with unacceptable clothing that most probably shows their underwear makes a woman proud?

    In American courts you have to appear in respectful clothing as well… and no cell phones…
    However, a woman can dress anyway she likes and decency and class can be judged accordingly… However, when I watched the woman from Bahrain run in the 100 or 200m final she looked like a freekin humanless robot… with her arms, legs and neck covered….
    So I guess all those magnificent world class athetes from the “Kuffar West” and the rest of the world that were wearing athletic shorts and showing their faces and necks were “disrespectful”? lol…
    My mother kicked a few of those out of her court room before and I see nothing wrong with it!
    Women are more dignified than that and their rights doesnt include showing their butts in court rooms.
    Perhaps, but dignity has nothing to do with covering your entire body or not or wearing a sexy dress or not… class can be construed in what you wear but more importantly the way you act and carry yourself…
    THE PROBLEM is the Middle East in parts lives in the Dark Ages so listening to Hamas goons or Muslim Brotherhood (rocket scientists who still believe the world is flat and human rights was a curse created by the jooooos) goons dictate to me what class and taste is… is like listening to Castro talk about human rights anywhere else in the world…

    Nonie Darwish told me in person that she took her daughters to Egypt in 2001 right before 9/11 and she couldn’t believe what it was like there… her and her daughters told me that they were heckled, hissed at and stared down just about everythwere they went in Egypt for wearing Ralph Lauren Polo short sleeved collared shirts with pants or dress shorts….
    LOL!
    So is twosret saying either you are almost completely covered or dressed like a nun or else you’re a harlot slut showing your butt and panties off to everyone!! I imagine that’s the logic the MBrotherhood “class experts” explain the West as on Al Jazeera.

  117. Mike Nargizian says:

    Twosret -
    Violation of women rights? by wearing short shorts? are women that cheap really that appearing before a judge with unacceptable clothing that most probably shows their underwear makes a woman proud?

    In American courts you have to appear in respectful clothing as well… and no cell phones…
    However, a woman can dress anyway she likes and decency and class can be judged accordingly… However, when I watched the woman from Bahrain run in the 100 or 200m final she looked like a freekin humanless robot… with her arms, legs and neck covered….
    So I guess all those magnificent world class athetes from the “Kuffar West” and the rest of the world that were wearing athletic shorts and showing their faces and necks were “disrespectful”? lol…

    My mother kicked a few of those out of her court room before and I see nothing wrong with it!
    Women are more dignified than that and their rights doesn’t include showing their butts in court rooms.

    Perhaps, but dignity has nothing to do with covering your entire body or not or wearing a sexy dress or not… class can be construed in what you wear but more importantly the way you act and carry yourself…
    THE PROBLEM is the Middle East in parts lives in the Dark Ages so listening to Hamas goons or Muslim Brotherhood (rocket scientists who still believe the world is flat and human rights was a curse created by the jooooos) goons dictate to me what class and taste is… is like listening to Castro talk about human rights anywhere else in the world…

    Nonie Darwish told me in person that she took her daughters to Egypt in 2001 right before 9/11 and she couldn’t believe what it was like there… her and her daughters told me that they were heckled, hissed at and stared down just about everythwere they went in Egypt for wearing Ralph Lauren Polo short sleeved collared shirts with pants or dress shorts….
    LOL!
    So is twosret saying either you are almost completely covered or dressed like a nun or else you’re a harlot slut showing your butt and panties off to everyone!! I imagine that’s the logic the MBrotherhood “class experts” explain the West as on Al Jazeera.

  118. “resorting to personal attacks and stupid claims of Hamas-led Palestine and the clown Ahmed bla bla bla makes you a troll not me.”

    Personal attacks? I’m just stating your standpoint, which you have so often made clear on this blog, and specifically in this post…

    As for your mom, she wouldn’t find me showing up in court showing my butt, as that would be breaking the law (as opposed to your mother’s personal ethics). Neither did the woman in question, mind you, but you still feel the need to punish her because she didn’t live up to YOUR ideals… Sad.

    As for your attitude towards people that haven’t got the means to live up to your arbitrary ideals, well… let’s just say that didn’t surprise me.

  119. Twosret, is not so much a critiscism of your mother… Rules differ from country to country, and the object of this debate is the specific laws of the US.

    In the US, I could get thrown in jail for contempt for the court because my ethics didn’t match up to those of a particular judge (in this case your mom), regardless of what the law says.

    In Denmark, the judge/your mom would be removed from her position for trying to force her ideals onto others with no basis in the law.

    Guess which country I’d prefer to live in… ;)

  120. You know…… I’m having a hard time taking this court case thing seriously. Every time I try to contemplate it, the court exchange between Joe Pesci and Fred Gwynne in the fime ‘My Cousin Vinnie’ replays itself in my head :)

  121. Wishbone, it SHOULD be a joke! :)

    Unfortunately it seems it isn’t…

  122. Roman Kalik says:

    What we’re talking about here is a single individual being arbitrarily able to dictate the style of clothes you can wear, and does so representing the state no less!

    Should the busdriver be given the power to decide whether you can wear a cap on his bus?
    Should the lifeguard be able to dictate mandatory flipflops on his beach?
    Should police officers be able to ban people from the streets on saturday nights if they’re not dressed to party?

    In a most unbelievable way, I find myself agreeing with Twosret for a change. Your comparisons are inapplicable in this case – a better comparison to court of law would be another public institution.

    Here’s one – the public schooling system. Guess what? Many public schools, in the US and across the entire world, have dress codes. These dress codes go beyond the definition of “indecent exposure”, and have several reasons.

    Two of them are discipline and respect, both when involving oneself to others in the public institution, and the institution itself.

    There is nothing at all abnormal with a dress code in a court of law. It’s a basic sign of respect for an important public institution.

    By your logic, public employees should have no restrictions on dress and behavior as well, seeing as they’re not employed privately. Again, you miss the point of the limitations and focus blindly on the most absurd call for freedom possible – freedom from respecting authority. The standards that apply in the general street have no reason to be universal, to apply in every building and setting in the country.

    Some places are private, and have their own standards of what can or can’t be done. In those cases, you damn well respect such limitations – because *your* personal freedom ends when it starts taking from the freedoms of another – such as the freedom to define who can or can’t enter your property, and how they behave therein.

    And yet somehow, a court of law or a public school is radically different? Something that’s owned by everyone shouldn’t be treated like it’s owned by no-one, Adam.

    And further, there is no personal freedom that is not dependent on its setting. You can walk around naked in the privacy of your closed private home. You have stricter set of limitations in the street. And a stricter still in specific buildings or enclosed locations, be they private buildings or public institutions.

  123. RK, hopefully PUBLIC schools have no dresscodes beyond what is generally considered decent in the eyes of the law…? If that is the case, again, I praise the stars that I do not live in such a country! In any case, what we’re talking about here are kids, and as such they are not considered completely capable of understanding the consequences of their actions – hence a different set of regulations for them as opposed to adults forced to show up in court for whatever reason.

    Public (as well as private) EMPLOYEES can certainly have restrictions in the form of dresscodes. I have no problem with this – they are free to quit their job if they find these regulations too strict. The rest of us should not be subject to these restrictions, particularly if we do not have a choice whether we want to show up or not, as is the case with a courtroom…

    “And yet somehow, a court of law or a public school is radically different? Something that’s owned by everyone shouldn’t be treated like it’s owned by no-one, Adam.”

    I’m not arguing that a courtroom should be treated like a dump… My arguement is “who died and made the judge God?” Who decides what is proper and unproper in a public space when no law is broken? The answer is still noone. The limitations about public nudity you mention are covered by the law (whether you agree with the law or not) whereas LEGAL clothing is obviously considered a matter left to the arbitrary discretion of judges and their random whims in US courtrooms… I find this very disturbing, and even more disturbing is the fact that people, who proclaim to defend democracy and freedom, find it “right” that a judge be conferred such absolute powers.

  124. Roman Kalik says:

    RK, hopefully PUBLIC schools have no dresscodes beyond what is generally considered decent in the eyes of the law…?

    Depends on the standards of this or that public school. I don’t live in the US, Adam, I live in Israel. Some schools here require a certain dress code – some don’t. Some schools even have a school uniform, though most don’t. But the points stands – you don’t go to school in a swimsuit, regardless of how acceptable people wearing swimsuits are in beach-towns or near tourist resorts. You don’t grow a spiked Mohawk and paint it green either, regardless of how legal it happens to be in terms of country law.

    School uniforms, even, are common worldwide in primary and secondary schools, which is whole level beyond merely limits on what one can or can’t wear to school.

    If that is the case, again, I praise the stars that I do not live in such a country!

    So I guess you’re real happy that you’re not living in the UK or Ireland, eh, Adam? Both countries have mandatory school uniforms in pretty much all public schools. You’d probably want to avoid Australia, too, and Canada has its own guidelines about what counts as “indecent and offensive” in the school-hall, which goes beyond the mere legal boundaries of Indecent Exposure. Japan is bad for you as well, I’m sure. And Malaysia. Wouldn’t consider living in New-Zealand as well, if I were you.

    And those are just the truly “oppressive” countries. You’ll still have to avoid most countries on the planet to truly find your pure haven of freedom.

    I’m not arguing that a courtroom should be treated like a dump… My arguement is “who died and made the judge God?” Who decides what is proper and unproper in a public space when no law is broken? The answer is still noone. The limitations about public nudity you mention are covered by the law (whether you agree with the law or not) whereas LEGAL clothing is obviously considered a matter left to the arbitrary discretion of judges and their random whims in US courtrooms… I find this very disturbing, and even more disturbing is the fact that people, who proclaim to defend democracy and freedom, find it “right” that a judge be conferred such absolute powers.

    If you have a problem with the way a judge interprets behavior and dress guidelines in a court – complain. Same with any school principal. There’s always a higher supervising entity, at least in any country that has a properly set judicial and government framework.

    Say there’s a public school that has a history of violence and crime, Adam, as an illustrative example. A new principal may decide to institute a school uniform, or at the very least limit the allowed appearance within the school grounds, as part of a program to bring discipline and mutual respect into the school. This would be an entirely open decision on his side, lacking a state-wide decision to actively *not* limit what pupils wear to school. It would be up to him and the school board, and possibly the parents’ council – depending on how involved the latter is in the school affairs.

    Courts are little different. The judge, like it or not, is the local authority in the courtroom. He may decide to change the strictness of the dress based on his own consideration, and those of other court officials. Should that prove unsatisfactory to the general populace, they may lodge formal complaints on the issue – about, say, a judge who sends homeless people to jail for not complying with dress regulations (do note though, that in cases such as with homeless people the court is as likely to dress the man/woman in proper attire for the location as it is to be laxer in its regulations – that’s called common sense, something judges are expected to have).

  125. “Personal attacks? I’m just stating your standpoint, which you have so often made clear on this blog, and specifically in this post…”

    Listen dude I have never ever supported Hamas or the Clown AJ and if you have the decency to support your claims pull one post where I did. OK?! I’m so fed up with this Crap of yours and others to taunt my views the way you do.

    I support the Palestinian cause, the lost land, the peace and coexistence between people and I don’t support war and brutality.

    “As for your attitude towards people that haven’t got the means to live up to your arbitrary ideals, well… let’s just say that didn’t surprise me.”

    Poor people in streets are not walking naked. If a poor person walks in a court room with a torn shoe I’m sure no judge will throw them out of court of put them in Jail. if their clothes are ripped they won’t be in jail for their ripped clothing.

    Stop your absolute nonsense about me not feeling for poor people etc…. because it is totally ridiculous!

    No agreeing with me on my political views and stances is ok but to resort to cheap comments is not acceptable really!

  126. Mike Nargizian says:

    I agree with TWOSRET you’re getting a bit ridiculous and petty…
    That being said Twosret please read my post to you above (the 2nd one with the blockquote fixed) and reply to that if you will.
    Mike

  127. “Stop your absolute nonsense about me not feeling for poor people etc…. because it is totally ridiculous!”

    Twos, it seems obvious to me that Adam is an angst ridden teen out to apply his version of justice and freedom for all as long as it fits his very narrow view of morality and social etiquette. For an example of the world that would result from Adam’s weltanschauung, read William Golding’s allegorical novel “Lord of the Flies”. Hardly a societal structure many beyond their teens would be interested in.

  128. Mike,
    “However, when I watched the woman from Bahrain run in the 100 or 200m final she looked like a freekin humanless robot… with her arms, legs and neck covered….”

    Did she break the rules of the Olympics dress code if any Mike? that is a personal opinion of yours.

    I don’t think there was anyone disrespectful in the Olympics I was impressed by the beach volleyball girls amazing

    http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20040810/sp6.jpg

    “Perhaps, but dignity has nothing to do with covering your entire body or not or wearing a sexy dress or not… class can be construed in what you wear but more importantly the way you act and carry yourself…”

    Agree……. I think what you are saying is not necessarily true in a court setting, when a woman show up in short skirt in court bending down to sign and her thongs show the Judge and the Jury doesn’t want to see that it is there right no? and this is exactly what happened with my mom and she warned her once and the next thing she was thrown out of court.

    “THE PROBLEM is the Middle East in parts lives in the Dark Ages so listening to Hamas goons or Muslim Brotherhood (rocket scientists who still believe the world is flat and human rights was a curse created by the jooooos) goons dictate to me what class and taste is… is like listening to Castro talk about human rights anywhere else in the world…”

    You are mistaken about the Middle East many places in the Middle East has the most fashionable women dressed in western clothing want to see some pictures????

    “So is twosret saying either you are almost completely covered or dressed like a nun or else you’re a harlot slut showing your butt and panties off to everyone!! I imagine that’s the logic the MBrotherhood “class experts” explain the West as on Al Jazeera.”

    HUH?!

  129. “In a most unbelievable way, I find myself agreeing with Twosret for a change. Your comparisons are inapplicable in this case – a better comparison to court of law would be another public institution.”

    Roman Kalik what happened? I’m getting concerned :)

  130. Wishbone @ 123,

    Yes, I have the same problem.

  131. Mike Nargizian says:

    ME -
    “However, when I watched the woman from Bahrain run in the 100 or 200m final she looked like a freekin humanless robot… with her arms, legs and neck covered….”
    TWOSRET -
    Did she break the rules of the Olympics dress code if any Mike? that is a personal opinion of yours.

    No of course she didn’t break any rules.. she just reminded of that prisoner (I know it’s an overboard comparison but first thing that it reminded me of) in that wacky depraved scene in Pulp Fiction…
    It’s insane that any religion tells a woman competing in a sprint that she’ll be a bad Muslim if she wears shorts and an athletic tshirt… Yes, class and taste are good but that is fing INSANE!

    Agree……. I think what you are saying is not necessarily true in a court setting, when a woman show up in short skirt in court bending down to sign and her thongs show the Judge and the Jury doesn’t want to see that it is there right no? and this is exactly what happened with my mom and she warned her once and the next thing she was thrown out of court.

    Yeah I already agreed with you in American traffic courts you can’t come in wearing disrespectful clothing and no cell phones are allowed… some judges get a little full of themselves with it… but respectful dress and manner should be standard in a court of law.

    “THE PROBLEM is the Middle East in parts lives in the Dark Ages so listening to Hamas goons or Muslim Brotherhood (rocket scientists who still believe the world is flat and human rights was a curse created by the jooooos) goons dictate to me what class and taste is… is like listening to Castro talk about human rights anywhere else in the world…”
    TWOSRET -
    You are mistaken about the Middle East many places in the Middle East has the most fashionable women dressed in western clothing want to see some pictures????

    I am well aware of this even in parts of Egypt… however, my example citing an Eygptian American who took her daughters back to Egypt in 2001 prior to 9/11 is that Egypt and the MEast as a whole has seriously regressed back towards the extremism as a whole of the MBrotherhood and Hamas… As Sandmonkey has previously noted, if the last election were really fair the MB would have likely easily defeated everyone else and then Egypt would be ruled as another Hamastan…

    The last quote I was stating that that is the way some of these MB morons and sheiks explain the “West” on Al Jazeera or when anyone with a brain in their head who has some serious cajones actually stands up to them… which are always Arab women who have left Islam and are now living in the West – wonder why that is?

  132. I don’t know why would a polo shirt and pants will be inappropriate or cause such trouble but I know that the dressy shorts are not a good choice for a conservative country like Egypt. Any Egyptian American will know that she shouldn’t let her daughter wear dressy shorts in the streets of Cairo so I don’t know what she was thinking really.

    There are many reasons to why some people will resort to extreme religion views and they resort to God to survive their economic situation or whatever reason.

    I know that there are many reasonable muslims that will object extreme thoughts many actors in Egypt Adel Imam and many others have used their popularity to ciritcize the extreme religious nuts. I don’t think personally that a nut case like Wafaa Sultan is necessairly and good example to oppose extreme thoughts any reasonable muslim will mock her in three seconds because she is a nutcase.

  133. brooklynjon says:

    I think there are many situations, of which a courtroom is but one, in which someone of authority is in charge, and needs to be able to dictate how people behave.

    In my Operating Room, there is a way to behave and a way not to, and I will kick your ass out if you do anything that makes me suspect that we’re not in agreement as to who is in control.

    The one thing I like the most about my daughters’ school is that the teachers are in unquestioned control in their classroom.

    I think the judge was 100% correct to jail the woman who dressed inappropriately.

    Roman, I know how you feel. I agree with Twosret every now and then. I’ve learned to relax and accept this. You can too. :-)

  134. brooklynjon says:

    Two,

    Why is Wafaa a nutcase?

    bj

  135. brooklynjon says:

    Penn and Teller discuss world peace. The language is foul, but it’s balanced and makes sense. This is the first of three parts.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kj4MYD2VnU&feature=related

    bj

    P.S. Penn and Teller are right about everything. My humble opinion.

  136. No comprehendo..

  137. Wait a minute..what does world peace have to do with the beauty requirement of the wife of a candidate?
    There is a proper place and time to wear pink? I used to like that color, but now way to many people are jumping on the pink wagon.. Pepto Bismol pink..not even a pretty shade or hue.

  138. Michelle Obama is not attractive, she is just average, which is the category most people probably fit into. Cindy McCain is an attractive older woman, and now, McCain’s VP, Sarah Palin, will both give the boys something to look at……not to mention, the women will have Sarah Palin’s good-looking husband to look at.

  139. Sarah Palin is 44 and a mother of 5. You can’t raise 5 kids and at the same time aquire the experience to hold office. There are thousands of Americans more qualified than her. The only reason (and its pretty damn transparant) that he picked her was on the hope that some Hillary dead-enders would switch over because she’s a woman.

  140. You’re right Joanne.

    SM may have to modify his theory:

    “There is a theory that states that the wife of any successfull political candidate has to be uglier than him or at the very least in the same realm of attractiveness, because if she is prettier than him, then for some reason women won;t vote for him.”

    What say Sam when the goodlookin wife IS the politiction!! Sarah Palin is just friggin hot! IMHO

    http://livingalaska.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/sarah_palin2.jpg

    http://nicedeb.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/palin-in-the-car.jpg

    Besides that! Sarah Palin, gave birth to her fifth child on Friday, April 18th, at 6:30 am. Trig Paxson Van Palin weighed in at 6 lbs, 2 oz!!! What a woman, what a role model, what a babe!! Oh foolish heart be still!! ;)

    I think Van Halen may need to redo their song, “hot for teacher” to be “hot for the vice president”!

    Michelle Obama can’t come close Sarah Palin!!

  141. Sarah hot?! huh? with the fake looking highlights lol have she heard of natural looking low lights? the woman needs a makeover and what’s up with those glasses? have she heard of D&G collection.

    McSame wife is good looking after 600 facelifts comm’on people! I would rather see wrinkles on her anyday over her wax botox face!

  142. “Roman, I know how you feel. I agree with Twosret every now and then. I’ve learned to relax and accept this. You can too. :-)

    Don’t get too comfortable :)

    Wafaa is a nutcase because she is a disrespectful lunatic, if you want to positively criticize a religion or attempt to draw attention to some reform in any religion you don’t go about insulting the prophet and the religion. You respectfully address your views without getting into an angry shouting match to offend every muslim on earth.

    What did she achieve by her constant throw up on T.V. nothing but creating more distance and hate. She talks about civilization when she is the least civilized person on earth.

    She is hateful and disgusting and doesn’t deserve one minute on the air.

  143. Teddy,

    You disappoint me in ur choice of this particular woman :)

    send her here to get hot lol

    http://www.dolcegabbana.com/deg/collection-fw09/collection-woman/

  144. “You disappoint me in ur choice of this particular woman”

    Be disappointed all you like! The high school tartette Brittney Spears type nymphets on your dolcegabbana site would’nt have interested me when I was in high school, certainley not now. Sarah Palin besides being beautiful is highly intelligent, charismatic, powerful and just plain sexy IMHO. I won’t tell you who to like and I’d appreciate it if you would accept or at least not comment on who I find attractive. Beauty is subjective but Sarah is uber attractive to like 99.999999% of people, that’s just a fact!! I’m sure the code pink lesbians won’t like her but no one cares what those widgets think anyway!! ;)

  145. “and what’s up with those glasses?”

    The glasses definately DO IT for me!!! :)

  146. I wish Britney has the class to dress from D&G lol :) highly what? she is a republican comm’on LOL

  147. Teddy,

    99.999999999% of the people? says who?

    I respect your choice of beauty but I couldn’t help teasing you :) her so called beauty won’t help her with zilch experience and what power are you really talking about Alaska? lol

  148. Oh, yeah, Sarah’s shoes DO IT for me too!!!

    http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20080829/2008_08_29t144140_450x289_us_usa_politics.jpg?x=400&y=256&q=85&sig=fesV0bCFOBJRr4S4QL261Q–

    I think I might need some medical help!! :)

    “highly intelligent”, Twos! You’re familiar with intelligent women, don’t be silly!

    “Palin has served less than two years as Governor of Alaska, which tends to eat into the experience message on which McCain has relied thus far. At 44, she’s younger than Barack Obama by three years. She has served as a mayor and as the Ethics Commissioner on the state board regulating oil and natural gas, for a total of eight years political experience before her election as governor. That’s also less than Obama has, with seven years in the Illinois legislature and three in the US Senate.

    However, the nature of the experience couldn’t be more different. Palin spent her entire political career crusading against the political machine that rules Alaska — which exists in her own Republican party. She blew the whistle on the state GOP chair, who had abused his power on the same commission to conduct party business. Obama, in contrast, talked a great deal about reform in Chicago but never challenged the party machine, preferring to take an easy ride as a protegé of Richard Daley instead.

    Palin has no formal foreign-policy experience, which puts her at a disadvantage to Joe Biden. However, in nineteen months as governor, she certainly has had more practical experience in diplomacy than Biden or Obama have ever seen. She runs the only American state bordered only by two foreign countries, one of which has increasingly grown hostile to the US again, Russia.”

    As for Obama all you need to know is that he was, a “protegé of Richard Daley”. Nuff said!

  149. won’t help her with zilch experience and what power are you really talking about Alaska? lol

    Governor of Alaska, yeah that’s kinda like being the Governor of Arkansas as training for being POTUS. Remember how that worked out? She has executive experience, more that Obama and Biden combined! Remember that Palin is running for VP, not the Presidency!!

  150. “99.999999999% of the people? says who?”

    Just wait till she get’s elected and see how the public responds!

    Do you remember Mike Wallace’s interview with Tina Turner? I thought he was going to drop trou right there during the filming!! I’m afraid we may see more of that with Sarah!! :(

  151. “I think I might need some medical help!! :)

    You do Teddy.

    * paging bj code red….paging bj code red*

  152. Play the song!!

    http://web.me.com/jameshooker/Site_4/Sarah.html

    After bj sees those red shoes he might be in the gurney next to me!!

  153. No sexy woman wears a turtleneck for goodness sake!!!!!!

    nice song :) those shoes are ummmmm ugly lol

  154. I don’t have a foot or shoe fetish but those Neiman Marcus shoes are pretty HOT!! OMG $700 !!! Haven’t you ever heard of DSW?

  155. Mike Nargizian says:

    TWOSRET -
    I don’t know why would a polo shirt and pants will be inappropriate or cause such trouble but I know that the dressy shorts are not a good choice for a conservative country like Egypt. Any Egyptian American will know that she shouldn’t let her daughter wear dressy shorts in the streets of Cairo so I don’t know what she was thinking really.

    She left Egypt in the late 70′s and became an American citizen where she later had kids… she wanted to go back to Egypt for the first time with her kids, who are regular American girls…
    “Wearing respectful shorts and a polo dress shirt”
    they should know better than to wear that in Cairo or anywhere else? I think that says allllllllllllllllot.

    There are many reasons to why some people will resort to extreme religion views and they resort to God to survive their economic situation or whatever reason.

    Funny you don’t define “extremist” above as not being able to wear conservative shorts and a polo dress shirt without being hissed at mocked or putting yourself in danger???? I have a feeling that you also don’t believe Quadawari is extremist either?

    And why does “extremism” explanation always coincide with “economic situation”???? Funny Al Queda is led by very wealthy people?
    Wahabists Mosques are extremely well funded by Saudi oil money all around the globe… as well as the MBrotherhood which also gets funding from the Egyptian government.
    The answer is never that it’s because the extremists are basically leading or extremely powerful within the religious establishment of Islam….and they teach and engender extremism and encourage women having to dress like a robot in a 200meter race or else she’s a bad Muslim… lol
    I listen to progressive Jews castigate “Kahanists” any chance they get but seems to me the power within the religious establishment of Islam are Muslim Kahanists on steroids.

    I know that there are many reasonable muslims that will object extreme thoughts many actors in Egypt Adel Imam and many others have used their popularity to ciritcize the extreme religious nuts.

    Right – but they’re not religious leaders… the power within the religious establishment are extremists or extremists lite – and if they espouse any moderate points of view they are immediately castigated as Western Kuffars by the other power brokers within that religious establishment… And we know where Al Jazeera’s sympathies lie in that conversation it’s the MBrotherhood Global Jihad Network…

    I don’t think personally that a nut case like Wafaa Sultan is necessairly and good example to oppose extreme thoughts any reasonable muslim will mock her in three seconds because she is a nutcase.

    Yeah? What about Nonie Darwish?
    What about Ayaan Hirsi Ali?
    And why is Wafa Sultan a nutcase when she has to sit there on Al Jazeera and conduct an intelligent” argument/discussion with a Muslim Brotherhood Imam from whose points and arguments are from the Dark Ages?
    then somehow she becomes the “nut” and not the idiot representing Islam on the Muslim Brotherhood Global TV Network?

    Then in the next breath you’ll say that these small minority of “extremists” are mainly due to economic conditions but one reallllly can’t say for sure why these “”tiny proportion”" of Muslims resort to “”extremism”" lol!

  156. vpilf ! ;)

  157. That’s a joke teddy don’t get too excited :)

  158. What do you mean by excited? ;)

  159. stuck :)

  160. Stuck?

    Ouch! :)

  161. ” Palin doesn’t like State Senate President Lyda Green. Palin laughed out loud when a radio talk show host called Green a “bitch” — and a “cancer” (Green is a cancer survivor)”:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKkydrUnBZE

    Ready to puke yet?

  162. Exactly like how Mcsame nothing different those hypocrite republicans that claim being religious and respect women

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLQGWpRVA7o

  163. Lovely! GOP convention vs. Gustav

  164. brooklynjon says:

    Two,

    I agree that disagreements should be kept civil whenever possible. But I think one of the problems that Wafaa runs into is that, on certain topics, NO criticism is allowed.

    And there seems to be a double standard in which religious criticism is not allowed, but criticism of other beliefs is. It is unclear to me why this should be.

    I mean, if I announce a new religion, Neoconism, with McCain, GWB, and Cheney as my prophets, does this mean that you won’t criticize them any more? Seems unlikely. So who gets to decide what is a “religion”, and is therefore beyond the pale? Or is it based on what is likely to engender an angry, violent response? Or should every ideology be forced to compete and defend itself in the marketplace of ideas?

    Christianity and Judaism have, at least in the last few hundred years, tolerated a great deal of intellectual dissent, to both their credit and their benefit. You could stand on Avenue J and announce that King David was a woman, and no one would look up at you. In fact, at some point I’ll have to tell you about the fracas that developed when someone tried to criticize my yarmulke-wearing daughter on Avenue J.

    The problem, as I see it, is not that Wafaa said this or that. The problem is that she must be shouted down for saying so. And that, ultimately, she is putting herself and her family at risk for expressing her opinion.

    And I promise, if you ever want to come to Brooklyn, you can stand on my porch and say whatever you want about Judaism, and I will personally vouch for your safety, and in fact, for the indifference of my Jewish neighbors.

    bj

  165. brooklynjon says:

    Twosret,

    I’ve scared you off? Is it something I said? Whatever it is, I take it back!

    bj

  166. bj,

    I just saw your two comments this afternoon. I have been super busy :) not scared at all :)

    From the little I know from my reasonable muslim friends, Islam is very strict on changes or reform. Muslims won’t accept any changes made to their Quran. For them the Quran is a miracle and any changes done is unacceptable. One of the main core beliefs in Islam that it is a religion for all ages and all times.

    I think Coptic Orthodox is the same way too. Do you know that the Coptic mass is 4 hours?. Yes 4 hours and the priests would never change it or reform or try to make our life and our children life easier. So is some of the Catholic traditions.

    There were many debates about Islam Vs. other religions in so many parts of the world, it was held in Universities and even religious institutes and nobody objected to it or I personally didn’t feel that anyone is insulting Islam. I haven’t heard anyone dead after those debates. But when an idiot like Wafaa opens her vile mouth and do nothing but attack Islam and insult a prophet it leads to nothing but a crazy woman on T.V.

    In Toronoto at the intersection of Bloor and Younge st. I have seen some guys standing with pictures of Prophet Mohamed and some of his followers and a new version of Islam that makes me laugh :) Pictures of Prophet Mohamed are not allowed in Islam at all. For years I walked by them and smiled and no one attacked them or killed them.

    I disagree that the problem is not what Wafaa said, Wafaa has an agenda and she has to face the consequences of her vile agenda. What she goes and say out there is not an Opionion or a debate it is face off a la WW style and when you are dealing with religious nuts you should expect what kind of consquences.

    You can’t compare America to Saudi Arabia or Egypt or any other country, you can’t expect that the life style here in the US to happen everywhere. I can’t expect people in America to behave the same way they behave in Egypt either.

    The image of me standing on your porch yelling my lungs out is not such a good idea especially if people in your neighbors know where I was born.

    A nice way to get rid of me bj :) but I am not taking the bait :) I would rather be put to sleep peacefully with someone reading to me the story of Cleopatra or even Twosret :)

  167. brooklynjon says:

    Two,

    But that is Wafaa’s point exactly. Islam did once have a robust tradition of inquiry and interpretation (and, yes, artistic depictions of the prophet). In Islam’s past, questioning and criticism were allowed, just as they are even in more conservative Christian and Jewish denominations. But Islam has been substantially hijacked by conservative forces that have suppressed dissent with intimidation to preserve their own hold on power.

    The Quran cannot be changed, indeed. Neither can the Torah. Yet, it is not only acceptable to question the actions of those who appear in the Torah, it is actually an important part of Torah scholarship, occurring on a weekly basis in synagogues around the world, and more often than that in classrooms. It is exactly that spirit of tolerance, dynamism, and inquiry that have made Judaism and Christianity vibrant and adaptable, and ultimately compatible with modernity and with one another.

    But I am not eloquent or knowledgeable enough to make the point. In my office is a bookshelf on which sits a copy of “The Problem with Islam Today” by Irshad Manji, who is far, far more qualified to speak about this than me. I’ll send it to you. Or if you prefer, the next time you come to New York (to shout insults about David and Solomon from my porch, if you like, for the bemusement of my indifferent neighbors who would much prefer someone clean up my yard), stop by my hospital and pick it up. Labor and Delivery, fourth floor. It’s waiting for you. And I’ll give you a tour and reward you with some chocolate covered coffee beans, too.

    Wafaa may not be the most sophisticated theological commentator, but there must be room for dissent and criticism. The alternative is sclerosis.

    bj

  168. I take it back..Cindy McCain appears to be a very sweet lady..she is so thin, tho..maybe when I saw her at first she was really hungry..She is prettier than her husband. Election shall be interesting :D

  169. bj,

    “But Islam has been substantially hijacked by conservative forces that have suppressed dissent with intimidation to preserve their own hold on power.”

    Agree totally with this statement but not so many people see it this way. People accuse the religion to be an aggressive non-tolerant religion.

    “Irshad Manji, who is far, far more qualified to speak about this than me.”

    I read a little about Irshad and saw her on Glenn Beck once (the right wing moron Beck) anyway, I don’t know why would you think that a Lesbian feminist is knowledgeable about Islam? how can she represent Islam?

    I know there is an appeal to all what Wafaa and Irshad says to people who doesn’t know Islam or decent Muslims. Or is it because she stands by Israel? it was funny to read how she criticize treating minorities in the M.E. and at the same time asking Palestinians to suck it up. funny character indeed.

    I would read the book if you insist but my mommy told me not to get sweets from strangers :) because I know that there must be an OR room on the fourth floor where I will be put to sleep for a long time :)

  170. brooklynjon says:

    As far as I’m concerned, the religion is what it causes people to do.

    If there is one version of Islam which encourages peaceful coexistence, and another version that causes people to blow people up, then there is in reality two religions. I will not pretend the moderates don’t exist merely because some violent a-holes felt that Gd wants them to kill in hiss name. But I also refuse to pretend the jihadis don’t exist because all the Muslims I know are nice people. The Islam of my friends is compatible with all kinds of good things. The Islam of the Jihadis is not.

    However, for whatever reason, the Jihadis seem to be dominating discourse, and disseminating their hateful bile, all the while suppressing anyone who would question it by claiming that critical thinking is anti-Islamic. Well, this would seem to be a big problem, then.

    Along come people like Irshad Manji (and I’m not entirely sure what her sexual orientation has to do with her ability to speak authoritatively about Islamic history, theology, or law – surely you wouldn’t say that her lesbianism renders her opinion invalid, thus placing yourself somewhere to the right of Rush Limbaugh!), who point out that it has not always been so. Evidently, there is a history of critical analysis within Islam. And while insulting depictions of the prophet may have always been frowned upon, mere depictions evidently were not.

    Wafaa may be right. Or she may be wrong. But the fact that opening her mouth imperils herself and her family, indicates that there is something very, very intellectually wrong going on. Frankly, I can’t believe that you can’t see that.

    And, last I heard, Wafaa was not criticising the treatment of minorities in the ME while AT THE SAME TIME saying that the Palestinians should suck it up. Rather, she was (correctly) saying that it is disingenuous (=hypocracy) to complain about the treatment of minorities by one group (Israelis) while tolerating the same by another. Or, as we say up here in Brooklyn, it is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. And in this, at least, Wafaa is spot on.

    bj

  171. Great discourse bj and Twos! Point bj!

    I’m ready for the next volley, play ball!!!

  172. brooklynjon says:

    By the way, Two, rereading your last comment, I came a cross an absolutely hilarious juxtaposition:

    “People accuse the religion to be an aggressive non-tolerant religion.”

    And

    “I don’t know why would you think that a Lesbian feminist is knowledgeable about Islam? how can she represent Islam?”

    Take a moment to savor the irony of these two sentences.

    Islam intolerant? No way! And fie on the accursed lesbian who dares say so!

    Tee hee!

    bj

  173. bj,

    “As far as I’m concerned, the religion is what it causes people to do.”

    What do you mean? so the extreme Jew and Christian is made by their religion? or is it only Islam? in my humble opinion people were never good representatives of religion.

    “If there is one version of Islam which encourages peaceful coexistence, and another version that causes people to blow people up, then there is in reality two religions.”

    And why do you believe that there are two versions of Islam? did I say so? where did this come from? If so then it should apply on all religions based on people actions.

    “However, for whatever reason, the Jihadis seem to be dominating discourse, and disseminating their hateful bile, all the while suppressing anyone who would question it by claiming that critical thinking is anti-Islamic. Well, this would seem to be a big problem, then.”

    How many people in this world are muslims? and what do you think the percentage of Jihadis there is? If you look at actual numbers you will know that the majority of muslims are not Jihadis. There is a big difference between critical thinking and insulting Islam and the prophet for personal agendas. Usually critical thinking result in positive outcome.

    Hamza Yusuf is a convert Sheikh who have positively criticized the denial of the holocaust and he said that it undermines Islam, his impact on young muslim is huge. He was there with Bush on 9/11 supporting America at such difficult time. People like him I would listen to and respect because his views are balanced (please note I didn’t read or watched everything he writes) there are many Hamza Yusuf’s out there.

    As for Irshad (this is my personal opinion) I don’t believe that someone who claims that she is a sincere muslim and criticize Islam should be Lesbian. I am very sorry if you don’t see that people need to live what they preach. You can call me Lesbophoboic or gayphoboic if there are such terms but the fact of the matter is that neither Judaism, Christianity, or Islam approves of being Lesbian or gay. If you can’t follow the basic teachings of Islam and claim to be a sincere msulim who wants Islam to be a better religion and this is why you are “criticizing” the religion, then in my personal opinion you have no leg to stand on.

    Does that mean that the God of Islam will not forgive Irshad? of course not! does that mean that if Irshad decides to be a practicing muslim and not be Lesbian she will not be tolerated? of course not.

    Irshad was the one I was referring to talking about minorities in the Middle East, and I see it as hypocrisy for her to apply her views to one miniority and not the other.

    Now as for your comment above about Wafaa being in danger. I find it very hard to believe that you claim that if I walk into a synagogue and insult Jews or walk on ocean avenue in NY and insult everything Jewish that my life will not be in danger. Paleaze!!!! don’t tell me that the Jewish community will not react to a nut cursing their religion and Israel. If you believe this then I must say you are either naiive or blinded by the fact that ALL Jewish people are tolerant and will take my insults peacefully.

    As for comment# 179 I was simply giving my personal point of view as explained above and I’m not a muslim, so I don’t see why would you hint in a tee hee manner that ISLAM is not tolerant.

    I honestly feel that I have the right as a Christian to disagree with Lesbians and gays as much as they do with us. I see nothing wrong with that, I don’t hate, discrimminate, or mistreat any of them but at the same time I do have the right to disagree with their views.

  174. WOW she is much worse than what I thought

    http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/9425

    This is not about a muslim who is criticizing Islam bj, this is about a political Journalist.

  175. brooklynjon says:

    Well, of course she is a political journalist. Otherwise you and I wouldn’t have heard of her.

    Sigh. The differences are too great to be dealt with here. Let’s settle it over sushi. I’ll pay. And you can bring tedders and Mohammed to separate us if it degenerates into a slapfight.

    bj

    P.S. Inventing a new religion called Neoconism. McCain is my messiah. Palin is the last prophet. Hey, no cracks about my religion, or I’ll tar and feather you!

  176. brooklynjon says:

    Not to put too fine a point on it, but here is a commercial from Israeli television. Every Jew I’ve shown it to finds it hilarious. Just imagine if the characters were slightly different…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQQkopQSOlA

    Jews just have a different perspective on the sanctity of commentary and of their religious figures, I guess.

    cheers!

    bj

  177. brooklynjon says:

    And here it is in Hebrew:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDJSTuyd9sc

  178. #182

    Sushi, tar, and feather that sounds interesting :-)

    Where is Mohamed?

  179. thanks adm?n