Give Ghaza to Egypt?

Drima thinks he found the solution to the current crisis, which is to give Ghaza to Egypt, West Bank to Jordan, and call it a day. I am sad to say that Drima is more confused than a blind man in an orgy if he thinks such a solution should even be put on the table. And here is why:

1) It's not anybody's to give anyway!

2)Sure, it used to be our protectorate, until the Israelis took it over in 1967, a nice place where lefty seculars live. Now, they want to return it to us, with islamist militants running the show? Oh, thank you. Do you wanna give us blankets with chickenpox in them as well?

3) If we did end up taking over Ghaza, we will have to clean it from Hamas's presence and disarm the population, which means that we will kill and or arrest at elast about 30,000 people , just in the initial sweep, and we really don;t want palestinian blood on our hands, or like anywhere near us to begin with. So, again, pass.

4) Do you really want the palestinians to enjoy the same "rights and freedoms" that Egyptians have under the blessed Mubarak regime? Really?

Now, while it is a nice way for the Israelis to wash their hands from the mess they created (I am totally awaiting those comments where you tell me that " they are egypt's responsibility". Hey, do they have prozac on your planet? Get some! You need it!), I have to say that I am not fully- or like, at all- on board. Let's face it, Egypt has always been everybody's surrogate Homeland, the place everyone can go to and make their temporary home, as the 4 million sudanese refugees (Hey drima, you wanna take them back?), the 2 million somalian refugees and the half million iraqi refugees we took in the past 5 years will tell you. But that's it. We are a stop on the way at best. We are to a homecountry for others what Tofu is to chicken. We don't give passports and we don't give rights, and honestly, the Ghazan's probably deserve better than this. So, yeah, not big on that idea. God knows that this is partly what is feuling our decision to keep the border clsoed, because we know that at at least 40% of the people living in Ghaza would not want to go back under Hamas's rule if they could, and we fear that they would start refugee camps in Rafah, one that they would refuse to leave. So, yeah, not a good diea Drima. Sorry to disappoint you!

Comments

  1. I hate ALJAZEERA says:

    Save your dance macabre aljazeera, another dusty baby, a screaming widow and a perverted clip of a charred body will not make me hate jews!!!!! So respect the girl with the amputated left leg and focus the camera on the true criminals, the bearded purveyors of perverted death.

    Reducing a people with a dignified history, to a few perverse pictures of death, a checkered scarf and militant slogans is an insult to their dignity.

  2. I hate ALJAZEERA says:

    lol all hail Jimmy the first king of egypt and sudan and protecter of gaza, god save the king!

  3. LOL, a reply in typical Sandmonkey fashion. :)

    Ya habibi, my proposition was meant to be taken as a joke with a grain of salt, especially in regards to giving Gaza to Egypt. (West Bank to Jordan, ain’t as bad an option).

    Nobody wants Hamastan in their backyard for sure. But ah, okay now, how about this new bombastic crazy solution?

    Given that the Arab world is pissed off at Egypt for not opening the border, open it, send all the Palestinians that pass through to the pissed off Arab countries since they care so much, clear Gaza from innocent people, let Israel move in and wipe out Hamas, then maybe, just maybe, Egypt can have Gaza, and then invite billions of dollars worth of investments into it from all the pissed off Arab countries (which obviously care so much).

    Regarding the Palestinians living under the “rights and freedoms of Mubarak” u got a point, but let’s face it. Compared to living under Hamas rule, Mubarak’s is certainly the lesser of two evils. ;)

    As for the others reading this, throw in your propositions for peace, however creatively wild or bombastic they maybe. Hey, u never know, we may eventually come up with some shit that’s better that this seemingly impossible two-states solution.

    Cheers.

  4. wooot? wait, no no- give egypt to gaza. that’s the better solution.

  5. Israel tried to give Gaza back to Egypt in the 70s, but Sadat would not have it. The Israeli attitude to Gaza was satirized in an 80s Israeli play where one of the characters walked around the stage with a leg iron labeled “Gaza”.

  6. SM

    “God knows that this is partly what is feuling our decision to keep the border clsoed”

    Using Hamas logic…why are then not shooting Kassams and Grads into Egypt? I mean…should they not be consistent in their logic and policy?

    Just a thought

  7. SM…

    And if Egypt has a right to shut the borders down because of fear of terror, then why would Israel not have the same right?

  8. Its not inappropriate to suggest that Egypt take over Gaza. They are the ones who occupied it from 1948 to 1967. They are the ones who went to war for them to “throw the Jews into the sea” Now they want to wash their hands of the matter.

  9. Neftali…

    Honestly…I think we Jews need to pretty much give up on various takes on history as much as the Arabs do…It goes nowhere and the argument goes on endlessly.

    To me…it still comes down to one point…STOP USING TERROR as your central policy…not only is it immoral, but pragmatically it does not work. Again, Israel is stronger and bigger than ever…more of what does not work does not work.

    Stop terror and let’s start working on today’s issues some we can all stop this horror. I think they are mostly wrong, they thing we are 100% wrong…whatever…God will judge. But for right now…stop terror…accept that your dreams are not coming true…not completely (and if you think having your own state solves your problems…well…just frek’in wait) and that everybody is going to have to settle for part of a loaf…

    Gaza is not going back to Egypt, Palestinians are not moving to Jordan, Jews are not heading back to Germany or Uganda, Palestinians are not getting their houses back in Haifa, Jews are not getting their houses back in Iraq…life is filled with injustice…ask any child with leukemia.

  10. SM, LOL! But Drima has a point: The two-state solution doesn’t seem to be going to work. Maybe it’s time to look at other solutions, but no one in their right mind wants this mess.

  11. Naftali, see that part in the post about Prozac? Totaly aimed at you!

  12. There’s a lot of Palestinan support for this idea see http://olehgirl.com/?p=1631 and the comments to this post http://gnblog.com/?p=226

  13. SM…

    Actually…Prozac is an anti-depressant…and I think many of us could use some.

    In terms of Hamas…Zyprexa that is for delusional behavior.

  14. LOL, then Howie, pleeeez, pretty pleeeez tell the IDF to stop bombing Palestinian with explosives and start bombing it instead with…

    …Zyprexa!

    There’s another radical proposition for you!

  15. Adrian from Denmark says:

    With the recent story in mind, about USA supplying some Afghan warlord with Viagra so they became more cooperative, the Zyprexa bombardment might actualy work.

    Watch out for the little pink :o )

  16. OK, let’s forget all this emotional BS and let’s talk business.

    Here is the deal: Egypt gets Gazans and Israel gets Gaza. Gazans also get compensated for the move.

    How much for the whole deal? 5B? 10B? …

    PS. WB for Jordan is actually not that far fetched.

  17. SM,

    Just to get you in touch with reality a bit.

    How impossible this deal actually is?:

    Israel and Syria make and agreement where Syria no longer claims Golans and gets to have whole of Lebanon for compensation.

  18. This mess is not intended to be reloved. While the Arabs are playing the blaming game with Egypt. Israeli forces will eventually control Gaza “with the usual nuisance of Hamas retaliation attempts” & it won’t be long until Rafah’s border shrinks west.

    And maybe then Egypt will be forced to fight Israel, or is it the other way around? .. I’m not sure .. I’m on Zyprexa

  19. EgyptianKangaroo says:

    They should give it to Dubai. then they can build there, Stone City, Tear gas city, Beard City, the biggest stone thrown, the biggest kufiya, Intifada islands of the beach of Gaza etc etc . It would be full of tourists getting part of the experience. They can introduce booze, that would probably help people chill once they introduce the Gaza beach party every friday night. Egypt has enough on its plate, doesn’t need gaza.

  20. I’m with egyptiankangaroo – introduce Gaza to drinks and parties, and the anger ought to subside quickly! ;)

    Seriously, I can’t see why the two-state solution shouldn’t work… Or more precisely, if the two-state solution doesn’t work, what wil?!?!?

  21. I really loved this. Having lived in Israel during the Great Farmyard Giveaway of Gush Katif and watched the resultant vandalism, I can’t help but think that the monkey’s on the button. A pessimist, perhaps – but short of an Iranian nuke going sadly awry and what was aimed for Jerusalem accidentally taking out everything south of Ashkelon, prospects look bleak for all participants.

  22. I do wish Egypt would take control of Gaza, but as you have written, I don’t think Egypt wants the problem.

    However, Egypt will need to work closely with the PA to provide border security when this is all over.

  23. anonymous says:

    I sent ur Ghaza again post to some “friends” because I thought you had some valid points and u r right..the entire thing is bullshit. Man, the responses I got..esp. from the “Pali friends” was just plain nasty…got the same old rhetoric and was told I had never lived in a refugee camp. These palis have lived in uae and usa all of their lives..no joke…well 2 do palis…so i replied that when u have endured the suffering of ur ghazan brothers then come talk to me…ur totally right..they would stay in rafah 2 escape the jail that is gaza under hamas…but then they voted them in..what were they expecting..israel and the usa 2 welcome them with open arms…one pali sent me a reply saying she didn’t care what the west thought…newsflash honey..the west runs the world including that dinky little strip full of rocks and infertile land that both can’t stop fighting over…

    a lot of deluded people over there..including the sudanese who r busy slaughtering fellow muslims because of skin colour and resources…

  24. e. weisbord says:

    Plan A:
    Let Egypt take the ‘sane’ 40% who don’t want to be under Hamas rule.
    Divide the balance into three segments of 20%.
    20% into the sea
    20% to hell
    20% where virgins live
    OR…
    Plan B:
    drop massive amounts of viagra on the population and let them screw themselves to death.

  25. @Drima:
    “LOL, then Howie, pleeeez, pretty pleeeez tell the IDF to stop bombing Palestinian with explosives and start bombing it instead with…

    …Zyprexa!”

    Along these lines… ye gods, why is the creativity and leadership? Always the same-old-same-old. Always the tit-for-tat.

    I would love to see a brilliant, bizarre, creative solution. Involving the whole world. C’mon, are there no ideas? what about those anarchic events where everyone texts each other to show up at such-a-place, at such-a-time, wearing such-and-such, and do such-and-such.

    … too late now, but what if thousands of people went to Gaza City, all dressed like a terrorist or a banker or Marilyn Monroe, and carried out some splendid guerrilla theater in the streets? Surely there’s a conceptual artist somewhere who has thought this all through. I doubt that would cost as much as military interventions. And wouldn’t we all feel better afterward? Where’s the cathartic experience that helps us see the world and our troubles in a new light?

  26. pthpthp. Meant to write “WHERE is the creativity and leadership.”

  27. emissionist says:

    The key point for Egypt is to control the flow of fresh weapons to Gazat following the current events. It can be done. After that its a matter of controlling the brainashers (extremists) in town. Again it ca be done -Nasser did it very effectively with MB in Egypt over fifty years ago. Things went loose with Sadat afterward (sincehe was MB to begin with) -He paid the price after that. The key point is Egypt’s will to doit !!!!!! . Beleive me palestnian in Gazaunder Egypt protoctoratelived much better life than what they callliving today.

  28. Gaza is the last thing we need in Egypt! Just like SM says, its full of militants, those militants would end up pairing up with the Muslim Brotherhood and the next we know we have a homegrown militia in our country. No Thanks!

    It seems all the Arab world and everyone wants to put Egypt infront of the GUN always! All the Egyptian blood that has been spilt for Palestine and STILL they want more. We warned Hamas over and over, and now this is what they get!

    While Israel’s responce is murderous, inhumane and immoral we must not forget that HAMAS doesn’t give a crap about its civilians…they are just good at using big words “GAZA WILL BECOME A CEMETARY FOR ISRAELI SOLDIERS” and “THE EARTH WILL TREMBLE UNDER THEIR FEET LIKE A VOLCANO” They say all these things while their civilians are being slaughtered by Israel..how does this make any sense!!

  29. DocMartyn says:

    “Let’s face it, Egypt has always been everybody’s surrogate Homeland, the place everyone can go to and make their temporary home”
    This is the Kings James version of that very point

    Matthew 2:13-15

    Now when they had gone, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, “Get up! Take the Child and His mother and flee to Egypt, and remain there until I tell you; for Herod is going to search for the Child to destroy Him.
    When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:
    He remained there until the death of Herod. This was to fulfill what had been spoken by the Lord through the prophet: “Out of Egypt I called my son.”

  30. Howie @ #10, you’re paragraph says it all!!

  31. Howie #10, you’re last paragraph says it all!!

  32. @ 23 anonymous, are you just thick? Nobody is fighting over that little strip. Can’t you read. Nobody wants Gaza. Not even Hamas. What good is a high maintenance strip that needs continual welfare. Israel itself is a welfare state and can’t survive on its own with out aid. And Egypt definitely can’t survive on its own with out aid, just like Jordan. So please apply the word delusional to your self and not to others. Get your facts straight.

    To the rest of the world. I say bring back the Brits. They are the ones who started this freaking mess, let them govern a THREE STATE SOLUTION = WHICH EFFECTIVELY MEANS A ONE STATE SOLUTION.

    Call it “People-of-the-book-istan” or Pizreal and dispense free cheese and crackers on every sabbath and religious holiday to its respective religions.

    Plus a compulsory give a Jew a hug day, give a Muslim a hug day and give a christian a hug day!

  33. Can’t you read. Nobody wants Gaza. Not even Hamas.

    Who is thick? lol.

    Gaza is *perfect* for Hamas. It’s just teh right amount of lawless territory for a gang their size. If they continue to add members, they’ll need the West bank, as well. Or… part of Egypt. Or, perhaps, part of Lebanon… but then they’d have to deal with a rival gang, and gang wars over turf are never pretty.

  34. To the rest of the world. I say bring back the Brits.

    I don’t know about the Brits, but I bet the French would volunteer if you threw in Lebanon. And who could resist being ruled by the French? Nobody.

  35. How many billion dollars would Mubarek have to get to take over Gaza? I hear he needs money. As for needing to kill 15 or 20 thousand Hamas members, he needed worry about the publicity. When it’s Arab on Arab with no Israelis around, there’s no story. Remember 1982? Which got the publicity, Hama or Sabra and Shatilla?

  36. 15 @Drima

    bombing it instead with…

    …Zyprexa!

    LMAO That’s the most sensible solution I’ve heard yet!

    20 @ Kangaroo, 29 @ Sand Ape & 31 @ Craig

    LMAO

    Well, SM, I’m going to refrain from debating your post, or even the talkbacks, and just thank you for bringing out people’s sense of humor. I needed a laugh. Thanks.

  37. Andrew Brehm says:

    “To the rest of the world. I say bring back the Brits. They are the ones who started this freaking mess, let them govern a THREE STATE SOLUTION = WHICH EFFECTIVELY MEANS A ONE STATE SOLUTION.”

    No, please, keep the English out of it.

    Israel and Jordan are perfectly capable of working this out on their own. The Jews survived, Fatah pretty much changed sides, and the Jordanian king is a sensible man.

    I’m not sure how the English could help.

  38. Look, not for nothing, but does anyone (cough, cough, Sand Monkey) know when the germ theory of disease was invented, let alone proven to be fact?

    Let me put it this way: The germ theory of disease didn’t get any legs at all until 1875, and doctors were still arguing about it 20 years later.

    Handing out blankets when you don’t know how diseases are transmitted is not germ warfare. It is true that we were handing out blankets in the 1700s. The germ theory of disease didn’t gain real traction until the 1900′s. But it does advance the theory that ignorance has caused more deaths than anything else.

    Just sayin.

  39. This mess could be resolved within a year, but it’s not something within the power of the United States, or Israel, or Great Britain. This mess can be stopped, now, by Muslim clerics and Muslim and Arab governments.

    1. Muslim clerics need to repudiate this document as unIslamic. http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=sd&ID=SP109206
    This document is, on its face, a pact to murder your neighbors, and it has turned out to be a pact to commit suicide-by-cop. It’s high time it was republished in full and repudiated for the blasphemy it is.

    2. The Arab and Muslim governments need to give individual Palestinians the right to buy their own homes with their own money in the various Arab and Muslim countries. This could be made contingent on good behavior, of course, and need not be considered an extension of citizenship.

  40. Forget the Brits and French – bring back the Turks!

  41. Regarding a pact to commit suicide-by-cop. This because Israel is viewed as the enemy still. Not by Egypt though, because Egypt gave over 50% of what it considered to its land, back to Egypt again. If Israel were to dismantle and stop expanding without using the excuse Palestine doesnt want peace. Israel would then be astonished that a real peace has started and Muslim clerics have renounced violence.

    I mean if Sadat could do it (and he is single handedly responsible for killing more Israeli’s than anyone in Israel’s entire history) as well as finally being considered Israel’s greatest Muslim advocate. Therefore, a few chumps like Hamas would be no problem to control under world Muslim opinion, and it would be a good chance to shut Hezbollah and Iran up to.

    Remember when Arafat was considered a terrorist and refused a visa to the U.S. because of the Israels lobby’s protest? Now his Fatah are butt buddies with Israel!

    Give peace a chance.

    Rid yourselves of the fear factors already and act like Sadat did and try as hard as he and Beygin did, then talk!

    Peace!

  42. Sand Ape @ 42,

    It has been done many time and it did not work.

  43. BTW I meant

    “Israel is viewed as the enemy still. Not by Egypt though, because “I-S-R-E-A-L” gave back over 50% of what it considered to be its land back to Egypt again.

  44. @43 Leo, that’s it?? I thought lives depended on it. So keep trying for Gods sake? Do you know how hard Sadat and Baygin had to work to reach that peace deal and make it a reality?

    One side has to show incentive. The Hamasies are not gonna do it, but if ISrael would it would shut the whole world up right quick!

  45. Sand Ape @ 45,

    If I am not mistaking I already asked you or somebody else this question and I did not get the answer.

    In 2000 Israel left Lebanon. Is it good will gesture or sign of weakness?
    In 2005 Israel left Gaza. Is it good will gesture or sign of weakness?
    In both cases attacks did not stop.

    In 2006 Israel was attacked by HA in instead of usual ‘let it go for peace sake’ decided to reply in force however poorly.
    Israel did not have single HA provocation since that war was over.

    Now, I do not know about you but I think I have reason to believe that Hamas’s attacks will stop after everything is over. And I even agree for Hamas to declare Divine Victory if they feel the need to save renome.

    Hamas is old and now is very much experienced force, which will know for certain that Israel is not to be touched. If you ask me I’d rather they stay. Nobody need another delusional great cause wannabe, which thinks it can do better than Hamas or Hezbollah.

    PS. Peace will be incentive enough after Israelis are through. And desire to have normal life will be incentive enough to start talking. And if not, so be it.

  46. Everytime i quote someone they feel the continued need to retort. So here goes nothing….

    Unless it is made very clear by Israel and followed through by Israel, that there will be a return to the 67 borders. Please continue the occupation of these lands you speak of, because until then, frankly there shouldnt be any peace deal if it doesnt include A CESATION OF ALL HOSTILITIES BY ALL SIDES IN RETURN FOR THE 67 BORDERS

  47. I decided not to quote anyone, it is so antagonizing and counter productive. I am just sticking to this one liner.

    “The ONLY VIABLE PEACE DEAL IS ONE THAT MAKES SENSE THAT STIPULATES A CESATION OF ALL HOSTILITIES BY ALL SIDES IN RETURN FOR THE 67 BORDERS.”

  48. “Unless it is made very clear by Israel and followed through by Israel, that there will be a return to the 67 borders.”

    How long is Germany going to have to wait to get back Alsace Lorraine?

    Do you see your folly sand ape? Land for peace is a gimmick used by hamas and other radicals. They think Israel will fall for their lies again and again until they are at the ’47 borders. Land for peace doesn’t work.

    In 2000 Israel left Lebanon. There was still a war.
    In 2005 Israel left Gaza. There was still a war.
    The only thing the Arab radicals understand is overwhelming force. Israel has tried everything else, now it’s time for the overwhelming and humiliating defeat of hamas. You can’t go back in time.

  49. SM,

    A few words of note. Firstly, Israel did not create the mess that is Gaza and the West Bank, unless you count “creating the mess” as not ethnically cleansing the region when it was won in 1967. The reality is that the Arab world created this mess, and in fact Egypt created the PLO. It is the Arab world that aligned with Nazis during the Holocaust, and spread hysterical Jew hate throughout the region, which only has increased to this day. Israel is simply a victim of this all.

    Now, realistically, of course handing the land “back” to Egypt and Jordan is not feasible. Firstly, it never was legitimately Egypt’s or Jordan’s to begin with. The land is disputed and not occupied. Secondly, as you well pointed out, this hardly is a solution, regardless. I do not believe living under a repressive Mubarak regime would assauge anyone. Thirdly, the land is not the dispute. *It is Israel’s existence itself.* And Israel has as much right to Judea and Samaria, as well as Gaza, as anyone else has to it. More right, given the very long historical ties, as well as the fact that this land is necessary if, for nothing else, as a buffer to increase the safety and security of Israel itself.

    Finally, Israel would not be safer, should it give up this land. “Land for peace” has proven to be a farce many times over. For every inch of land Israel gives up, it is empowering a genocidal jihadist state to wipe out its existence.

    It is for these reasons that I do not believe either a two-state solution, or handing the land “back” to Jordan and Egypt is feasible.

  50. I didnt want to start the copy pasting and quoting because as i said it is nonconstructive in my opinion, but here we go…

    In 2000 Israel left Lebanon. There was still a war. (THERE WAS STILL OCCUPATION IN THE WEST BANK AND THROUGH OUT THE PRE 67 BORDERS, enough to tick off the most moderate Arabs)
    In 2005 Israel left Gaza. There was still a war. (Same as above)
    The only thing the Arab radicals understand is overwhelming force. (Mwhahaha, you guys still havent learned, yes, thats what strengthens their resolve, they are suicide bombers you genius, they love death more than anything)
    Israel has tried everything else (hardly, sending IDF to protect the illegal settlers, doesnt sound like they are trying too hard. When Bush senior cut military aid to Israel they stopped settlements right quick, so plz spare me)now it’s time for the overwhelming and humiliating defeat of hamas. You can’t go back in time. (Sure hostilities will stop for a year or two, but just like Hezbollah has rearmed even better, so will hamas and one day it will all explode in Israel’s face with another war on all fronts and then there goes the neighborhood.) but you guys are entitled to do that correct coz after all you are the ones with the Gold VIP cards from God and have privilege on this earth.
    While Christian supporters like Teddy get Silver cards and Muslim supporters like SM get Bronze ones.

    @ red Tulips, no comment after this comment of yours.

    “The land is disputed and not occupied.”

    Just push the button already and blow the whole world up, including yourselves, if you are pushed to suicidal desperation as hamas has been. After all you guys are the sons of Holocaust survivors and Hamas are the sons of uprooted Palestinians. Both peoples victims of other peoples aggression. Err, nice!

    But I see Israel as being far more suicidal than anything that has ever mutated out of Islam because its panick stricken well deserved paranoia.

    To say that Israel is so hated and part of an annihilation plan, without any instigation is pure cockamamie BS and if your kids lives depended on it, you would admit it finally.

    I would gladly put my life in the hands of a Jew because I know their word is Gold and if they say they are going to do something than you can bet your life that they will find a way of doing it, one way or the other. Israel doesn’t want peace or it just doesnt believe the Arabs want peace so it isnt trying that hard by following the footsteps Menachem Beygin anymore.

    This so called land for peace fallacy is the only thing that has ever worked in the past. *Egypt* ring any bells? Even after that, than half the Arab world was still against the peace accord and Sadat was subsequently killed for it.

    Now thats what I call sacrifice! P.S. Did you know that Sadat is the only leader in the Middle East to have his name in Google Spell Check. Which in my opinion, is a small testament to his greatness and appreciation for his statesmanship from the boys at Google.

    Somehow I dont think netanyahu will be added any time soon.

    Peace!

  51. Sand Ape, although I can agree to many of the points in your last post, “To say that Israel is so hated and part of an annihilation plan, without any instigation is pure cockamamie BS” is, to use your own words, cockamamie BS. Go read the Hamas manifest – it clearly states that no peaceful solution is possible except for the annihilation of the state of Israel and the extermination of all jews (that don’t convert). It is so determined by Allah, and as such can not be questioned, altered or ignored…

    Conclusion: the only peaceful solution is for some kind of ceasure of Hamas dominance and eventual disolvement of the group. Hamas and their ilk is the great hindrance to any form of peace.

  52. The only thing the Arab radicals understand is overwhelming force. (Mwhahaha, you guys still havent learned, yes, thats what strengthens their resolve, they are suicide bombers you genius, they love death more than anything)

    a) Then what is the problem, when they are given what they want? Why are you here, complaining about it when people who love death (as you claim) are killed?

    b) That isn’t what Iraqis are saying. Aren’t Iraqis Arabs? There *is* a breaking point. Nobody is immune. What broke Iraqis was being butchered by their fellow Arabs. The Israelis don’t play that way… if they did, this would have been settled 50 years ago.

    Arabs have been defeated before. many times, in many places. Don’t act like you guys are immune to losing wars in humiliating fashion. The only region on this planet that has never been conquered by outsiders is Northern Europe. But you don’t see Northern Europeans running around talking smack about how tough and indomitable, do you? It’s the Arabs who in the last 2500 years have only been under self-rule for a couple centuries (total) who think their shit don’t stink. The main issue Arabs have to deal with is irrational arrogance. You aren’t that great. Deal with it. Try to do better in the future. Stop trying to re-fight wars you already lost many times over, and move on with your lives. The recipe you’ve been using is not a recipe for success… it is a recipe for failure, and the only ones who don’t see it are you.

  53. @ Adam:

    You are trying to convince yourself and others that the occupying Jews, the descendants of the massacring Igrun and haggana are hated for the sole fact that they are Jews and not for their aggression and occupation? Come on dude…!

    @ Craig:

    At least we ruled ourselves for a few centuries, thats something that you guys cant say for yourselves. Why do you think that all of a sudden the concept of Israel was born and Zionist self determintaion? Becaue it is you guys that have been dived for centuries and havent gotten your shit together. So stop trying to point the finger and being an emissary of the pro Israel lobby, you are highly unqualified.

    LMAO at Obama having retracted his statement that no other race has suffered as much as the Palestinian people, after coming under attack by the old and powerful pro Israel lobby!

  54. At least we ruled ourselves for a few centuries, thats something that you guys cant say for yourselves

    Who is “you guys”? You think I’m Jewish? lol.

  55. And y nt give back Israel to the Palis instead of giving Gaza to EGY and sending the rest of Palis to Jordan????? (which is btw wt M Bolton just wrote in an article).
    Our countries rnt urs to give away and rnt there only to help solve Israels problems and lets nt forget that we have Britain to thank for this mess.
    A lot of civilians r dying and the level of humor by most of those posting is disgusting to say the least.
    To the one commenting about hating Jews do u honstly still think Arabs, Egys and even Palis have a problem w Jews in general or only w those living on their lands & killing them 50 +yrs?!!

  56. @ Anon:

    Its contagious. The problem is with those living on Arab lands, ABSOLUTELY, but as I mentioned before, only 10% of Jews or so are distancing themselves from Israel. The rest of the worlds Jews send monetary aid to the IDF to protect the settlers and decedents of Zionist terrorist groups that are gravely jeopardizing the peace. So its ineffectual yo say whether Arabs have a problem with Jews or just with Israel!

    @ Craig:

    Yes indeed, read the comment above. It is either you are one side of the fence or the other. I get called a Palestinian Hamas Terrorist all the time even though I am neither. So your pointing the finger and generalizing is a two way street!

    But if you were Jewish, there isn’t much space for retort to my comment that at least Arabs did have self rule. Something Jews have not and hence the excessive need for the (EXTREME)LY important state of Israel!

  57. Marie Claude says:

    I don’t know about the Brits, but I bet the French would volunteer if you threw in Lebanon. And who could resist being ruled by the French? Nobody.

    BUT you do, LMAO

    No, we don’t volonteer (neither you too), to get back on that , cuz, some may call us colonialists when we would only defend democraty !!!!

    up to now, it was of Rice’s influence if resolution 1701 was only passed with chapter 6 while the FRENCHS asked for chapter 7.

    I propose that America gets the whole lot of them, where there still is some unexploited lands, and the Pals would make no difference with their own unexploited piece of stones

  58. Marie Claude says:

    The only region on this planet that has never been conquered by outsiders is Northern Europe

    um, who there, the Lapons ? the Fins ? the Albioneses ?

    or may-be the Vickings ? but there were vicking slaves by the muslims

  59. Marie Claude says:

    BTW, the Hamas is the last iranian tool to bring Obama to the negociation seat, since O has been dubed by Aipac, Madoff and Soro’s friends

  60. Fuck AIPAC!

  61. Israel’s decision to pour ground troops and armour into the Gaza Strip is a dangerous gamble. If the goal is to reduce the number of rockets Hamas can fire at neighbouring, southern Israeli towns, it is probably achievable – for now. But if Israel proposes to cut the heart out of its most implacable Palestinian opponents, it will fail.

    In either case the mounting casualties, including civilians, from Israel’s disproportionate air, sea and artillery bombardment in densely populated urban areas will so blacken its reputation, and so undermine moderate Arab and Palestinian opinion, that its political position will be seriously weakened.

    It may well be that its goals are different. Infighting over strategy between Tzipi Livni, foreign minister and leader of the governing Kadima party, and Ehud Barak, the pugnacious defence minister who leads Labour in the coalition, is such that Haaretz, a leading newspaper, has called for a ceasefire – in the Israeli cabinet. Both leaders face each other in a general election next month and look to be trying to outflank Benjamin Netanyahu, hawkish leader of the ultra-nationalist Likud – but from the right.

    The overall aim of the politico-military establishment, however, appears to be re-establish the credibility of Israel’s deterrent power, lost in the 34-days’ war against Hizbollah in Lebanon in 2006, which offered a very public exhibition of the limits to Israel’s otherwise overwhelming military might. Now, Mr Barak says, Israel is going to “change the rules of the game”.

    Hamas has recklessly sought to emulate Hizbollah – not least by upgrading its home-made rockets to reach further into Israel – in the delusional belief it can reproduce in southern Israel the balance of terror the Shia Islamists have created across the Israeli-Lebanese border.

    But Hamas militiamen will be able to inflict casualties on Israeli troops if they enter the deadly labyrinth of Gaza City and its refugee camps, as they were suckered into the treacherous ravines of south Lebanon. Israel has failed to control Gaza or shut down Hamas in the past, even after assassinating nearly all its veteran leaders.

    Hamas has deep roots, and its main appeal comes from its resistance to occupation, just as Hizbollah was created by Israel’s 1982 invasion of Lebanon. Such groups win merely by surviving.

    To blunt that message, Israel has mounted probably its most extensive public relations offensive, which includes keeping journalists out of Gaza. This is not just to avoid the sort of images that did so much damage in 2006 – of children being pulled like broken dolls from the ruins of their homes – from getting out. The aim is to place sole blame for this crisis on Hamas and slot it into the global “war on terror”.

    But the claim that the Islamists’ extremism is the main cause of Gaza’s misery, after Israel offered Palestinians freedom by pulling out of the Mediterranean enclave in 2005, is less than a half-truth.

    Gazans have been under blockade since Palestinians had the temerity to elect Hamas three years ago, while Israel has significantly expanded its occupation of the West Bank and Arab east Jerusalem. This is a conflict that can end only if an independent Palestinian state is created on all that occupied land.

    What is urgently needed now is: an internationally monitored ceasefire, of sufficient duration to resume and conclude negotiations on that basis; for Israel then to lift the blockade; and for new elections to decide who speaks for the Palestinians – Fatah, whose position is fast being eroded by this crisis, Hamas, or a combination of them both.

    The incoming Obama administration should signal clearly that it intends to pursue a two-state solution based on the parameters set out by Bill Clinton in 2000 and the comprehensive Arab League peace plan of 2002. A forthright statement of intent may even influence Israeli and Palestinian voters to elect leaders capable of reaching such a deal.

  62. SAnd Ape: That’s not too bad… Obvious copy/paste, but at least it’s sensible and hopefully it reflects your views better than many of your own comments… ;)

    I have a little problem with this part:

    “…to decide who speaks for the Palestinians – Fatah, whose position is fast being eroded by this crisis, Hamas, or a combination of them both..”

    Why on earth must the choice be between corrupted a-holes or murderous psychos?!? Can’t they just elect someone who’s a bit more right in the head? Please…?!?!

  63. Firstly: Let me start off by saying for the third time or so, you don’t have to keep on bringing up the past! I said of course I have said some distasteful things in the beginning, as I was appalled by the extremely invalid neocon one track minded Zionist mentality which prevailed here. I never predicted on staying this long, but I was bewildered and intrigued by some of the rationale coming out of such commenter’s like your self! Encore! :)

    As for your comment, the same goes for Israel with its typical recycled politicians, each with a flare for the extravagant and distasteful to match that of the democratically elected radicals of Hamas as well as the corrupt sell outs of Fatah!

    If that was the only thing that you disagreed with in the above post, then you are far more pro Arab and pro Peace than you can possibly fathom.

    My hats off to you!

    You wouldn’t happen to play in a band here in London would you?

  64. Another proof of recycled politicians. How come one day the opposition in elections gets his ass kicked, then the next he is the minister of defense and is filmed peering out of binoculars that are still capped. Why are very important posts given to unqualified politicians. How did Barak become the minister of defense? Do you know what I am saying?

  65. Arab land? What the hell is Arab land? Is that any place that you guys have invaded in the last thousand years? Does immigration count? Is Europe now Arab land? What about the U.S. and Canada? Funny how Arabs are allowed to immigrate west, but westerners are not allowed to immigrate to many Arab lands. Not that most of us would want to anyways.

  66. Sand Ape, We’ll burry past comments… :)

    In my eyes there is a HUGE difference in choosing a government that, although you may disagree with their politics, sticks to conventional political channels and solutions, and choosing one that for all intents and purposes advocates a tyranical regime and demands the utter destruction of another state and it’s citizens. In that respect there is no comparison at all…!

    As for my stand-point, well… I’m neither pro nor con anyone really. I see a crisis, view the stance/reaction of both, and react to that. In my honest opinion, arabs f*ck up more things around the world than jews, and so I admit to a bias in Israels favour, but more than anything else, I’m pro-Israel/arab and anti-Hamas/insert-terrorist-organization-of-your-choice.

  67. @ Karen 68

    Your attitude that its “OK to conquer other peoples lands especially Arab lands because they too conquered it at one point and its OK to ridicule them over having lost that land and keep provoking them,” is quite ignorant.

    Adam, fair enough, but you do know under the current circumstances Israels extreme violence has exceeded terrorism. Just because Hamas isnt a country and israel is, doesnt give the right to call Hamas a terrorist organization and not call Israel one. Hamas is an extreme resistance group whose unspeakable methods were developed purely to counter Israeli aggression. Just like the article stated, Hizbollah is a product of Israel’s 1982 invasion of Lebanon.

    Truth must be told..

  68. Sand Ape: Israel and Hamas are two different sizes – one is a country, the other is a movement. Although it is possible to ascribe terrorist activities to a country, no such concept as state-terrorism actually exists, at least in legal terms. Of course, one should remember that the concept of terrorism itself has not been defined with international consensus, but certain aspects of terrorism are universally accepted, mainly that:

    “…the direct targets of violence are not the main targets”

    and

    “…human victims of violence are generally chosen randomly (targets of opportunity) or selectively (representative or symbolic targets) from a target population, and serve as message generators.”

    Terrorism, therefore, distinguishes itself from ordinary violence and assassinations in that it’s victims are not the important issue; the audience and the reaction the violence generates is.

    Hamas uses, endorces and encourages the use of non-targeted bombs in peacetime as well as suicidebombs in crowded areas of civilians, and therefore falls squarely inside the definition of a terrorist organization.

    Israel, it can be argued, directs is use of force directly against it’s opponents; ie. it doesn’t fire blindly into Gaza City, it seeks to hit Hamas combatants with minimum damage to civilians, and they don’t seek out and kill a Hamas leader’s family just to harass him.

    Civilians may die accidentally as a consequence of Israels use of force, but that is not the intent. Not so for Hamas. Therein lies the difference.

    Again, there are no universally accepted laws concerning terrorism; each country has their own specific set of rules. The above, however, captures the essence of what most define as terrorism.

  69. I have to add one more note to this brainless site with the most stupid comments I ever read. Go drink a beer and smoke a pot that is your culture, and before you speak about nations and lands I advise you to read if you can a book. IGNORANT !!!!

  70. POSSIBLY THE MOST BIASED AND CONTRARY STATEMENT THAT YOU HAVE EVER MADE:

    “Israel, it can be argued, directs is use of force directly against it’s opponents; ie. it doesn’t fire blindly into Gaza City, it seeks to hit Hamas combatants with minimum damage to civilians, and they don’t seek out and kill a Hamas leader’s family just to harass him.”
    “Civilians may die accidentally as a consequence of Israels use of force, but that is not the intent. Not so for Hamas. Therein lies the difference.”

    IT IS TRUE THAT THE LOVE MAKES THE HEART BLIND!

    Israel just sugar coats the hell out of it, hence their choice of the middle east for a homeland, near access to all the sugar cane fields.

    But again at least you were diplomatic about it and you started this grandoise statement with ‘it can be argued, lol.’ Very witty and proper!

  71. Oops, I forgot the link. This Doha debate well help with everyones quest for a precise definition between radicalism, terrorism and extremism.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYm96VeDip0

    Cheers!