Am I being paranoid?

Maybe it's from being around all of these conspiracy theories all my life, but, hmm..ok..so Tzipi Livny visits Cairo two days before the attack, where we announce that we came to the agreement that no such attack was going to take place. And then the attack takes place, and we naturally keep the border closed, and the arab media jumps all over us and accuse us of knowing about the attack, and being a party in the "Holocaust in Ghaza". Then, Nasrallah comes out and accuses the Egyptian leadership of being in cahoots with the Israelis and demands that the border corssing gets opend up. Then Israeli Newspaper Haaretz publishes a non-sourced report stating that Mubarak told the EU people that Hamas must be defeated and that he is on Israel's side of this war (which today got denied), which of course those specific arab media sources use as proof that Egypt is in cahoots with Israel on this, and call us the new Tripartite agression (completely ignoring the irony that the country that was victim of what is commonly known as the Tripatriate agression was Egypt itself). And then you have Israeli tanks running close to our border, fully knowing that any wrong hit would bring the wall down and flood the Sinai Peninsula with Ghazan. So, in light of all of this, am I being completely paranoid to think we are being set up by all sides? Why does it seem like that everybody is trying to draw us into this and make this- more than anyone else-our problem?

Comments

  1. A true paranoid may think, “I’m not paranoid, it’s just that everybody is out to get me.”

    I’m not sure about Hamas, but I don’t see how Israel is “out to get Egypt”. Rather, Israel is treating Egypt as its non-belligerent partner in the current Gaza campaign. If that means Egypt comes in for a few hits from the Arab countries, then Egypt can weather it. As Anwar Sadat put it, “The Arabs need Egypt more than Egypt needs the Arabs” and thus he signed the Camp David Accords.

  2. Egypt could have avoided this mess by blocking the tunnels. No tunnels- no missiles for Hamas, no war. It’s that simple, isn’t it?

    I think Egypt (Mubarak) enjoys being in the thick of things.

  3. I can understand not wanting a flood of refugees into egypt. But why not let Doctors and medical supplies in?

  4. Duhhh!!!

    oh and what happened to yr readers monkey?!

  5. Of course there is a conspiracy. And not only that, there are Other Nations Involved.

    I know this, because I just got a shipment from Victoria’s Secret, and the (matching) panties are made in Mexico, but the bras are made in Jordan. It’s surely part of a fiendish plan to corrupt the Muslim countries, using that dread weapon of men’s destruction, women’s dainties. This must be true, because UPS dropped off the package a few minutes after I read your post.

    Seriously, I doubt that Israel is “out to get” Egypt: they should want that border to remain closed. Hamas,, however certainly seeks to own Egypt. It’s in their Covenant. If they ever beat Israel, Egypt and Jordan are next. So, if Hamas can draw Israeli fire that just so happens to take out part of Egypt’s border, they will see it as a grand opportunity. I can readily envision the situation where Israeli tanks would be busy DEFENDING Egypt’s border from those who would blow a few holes in it.

  6. I think everyone has been “set up” to some degree, Sandmonkey. It seems to always happen in this conflict. At least half of the parties that are loudly complaining are probably just crying crocodile tears, not least of which is Hamas. Somebody tell me how an organization that prides itself on the willingness of it’s membership to be Shahids is really and truly in mourning about anything that has happened up to now? The government of Egypt is not going to benefit from this, no matter how it goes, so Egypt is probably one of (few?) parties that isn’t guilty of having some kind of agenda.

  7. Isn’t it obvious?! It is all part of some evil plan to make gaza be brought under Egyptian control once again.

  8. Quick and dirty solution.

    Put barb wire fence on Egyptian territory 50 meters away from Gaza wall.

    Two advantages, unlike fence barb wire is hard to destruct and being deep in Egyptian territory it will be safe from accidental hit.

    Oh, and as permanent solution start building secondary fence in the mean time.

  9. I can’t see any bone Israel has to pick with Egypt…I mean why? For what? It makes little sense…

    Of course all kinds of back channel stuff goes on and motivations are numerous…but what would Israel have to gain? Take Sinai back so we can have a front row seat for the return of Moses?

    Accidental hit? Sure could happen…Please remember folks…much of these wars are fought between fucking TEENAGERS for God’s sake…Should that trigger a war? I doubt it…Hell who remembers when the Russians downed an American airliner “by accident”? Nothing happened…How about the Egyptian pilot that dumped a plane full of Americans into the Atlantic? It usually takes more than one spark and I would think this kind of thing has been discussed by all of our honorable leaders?

    Yes…this is paranoia. Israel’s main objective…as the sane amongst us have repeated like a fucking Indian mantra…we just don’t want people blowing us up…it really is not that mysterious…How much have we bothered Egypt since they stopped attacking us? If we wanted an excuse…what about the Egyptian dude that killed people at the El Al counter or the Egyptian guy that walked up and murdered Meir Kahane?

    SM…take your own advice…Prozac and a dash of Valium.

  10. after all it si egypt that is keeping itself into the mid of the Palestinian-Israeli problems , in and outside gaza.

  11. oh..
    let me also say that all those who are criticizing Egypt now are themselves part of the problem, and not the cure.
    Egyptian support to the Palestinians is far much than we deserve ( Palestinians )

  12. You are underestimating the power of human stupidity. That is a bad mistake.

    You are also underestimating the incredibly necessity of lies in a complicated situation.

    If Israel fails to obliterate Hamas, then the Muslim Brotherhood will be emboldened. People ultimately go with whatever works, or at least shows a lot of promise. Currently the Benevolent Dictatorship of Egypt is indeed a failure on many levels, but it’s considered a lesser failure than the previous Aggressive Dictatorships. However, if Islamic Fascism is seen to be successful (militarily at least) against Israel, then people may be willing to give that a chance instead of what they currently have.

    It’s actually kind of funny when you think about it. Aristotle said that the best government was a Benevolent Dictatorship, and Egypt has proven that wrong at least.

    In any case, Mubarak really really really wants Israel to succeed against the Hamas. He doesn’t love Israel, he just hates Hamas a lot more. So with the power players in Europe he tells them he supports them, in the incredibly silly hope that they might back off a bit and give Israel some breathing room (ha ha ha, silly Mubarak, you do not realize how much more the Europeans hate us than the Arabs – they are just more polite about it).

    Meanwhile, at home, he must tell the local (and regional) lunatics that no, he does not at all want Israel to win. Which is an obvious lie, but a necessary one if he does not want every madman in the Middle East using him as target practice. Or worse, every other failed Muslim dictatorship using him as a rhetorical whipping boy to distract their populace from how much they individually suck at ruling.

    As for the Israeli tanks running close to the border, the reason is of three possible sorts. Either:

    1) They are doing an end run around Hamas positions

    2) The tank commanders have been seized with a fit of utter stupidity (Never ascribe to a Conspiracy what can be explained away by Incompetence – especially when it comes to Government.)

    3) It’s a bunch of bullshit concocted by a lazy reporter who couldn’t be bothered to check the facts. Repeated by other equally lazy reporters who also don’t bother checking facts. Who cares about the facts anyway? Just assholes like you and me, and lets face it – ha ha – we don’t count.

    All possibilities have an equal chance of being true.

    -ron

  13. If israel’s political leadership had any kind of foresight, it would have tried to trick Egypy into taking over the Gaza strip. Unfortuenately, I don’t think they do.

  14. Marie Claude says:

    when the Americans will finally take a position with Obama, um no noise from there up to now, uh, good ol Georgy is already taking the temperature of his wheels tires to get until his Texas ranch… ya know, “alea jacta est” with the ME olredy !!!

    oola, oola !!! may-be Armageddon is on the way, that’s why the Americans are looking for their own eden before

  15. I just read an excellent analysis of the situation on Stratfor, an independent think tank. Their take on this situation is that there is a huge difference between what the leaders of most of the Arab leaders think and want and what is being expressed and felt on the Arab Street, particularly among the lower and lower middle socio-economic classes which are suffering financially by lack of opportunity and who have little to lose by embracing a radical ideology. All have something to lose by Hamas’ continued power. Jordan has just about the most to lose, as the population of Jordan is mostly Palestinian. Egypt also has much to lose by having a powerful Hamas on its borders and fear a stronger alliance between Hamas and the MB. Syria would like to use their position to leverage concessions from Israel and to forge a stronger alliance with Israel in exchange for a free hand in Lebanon. The Saudis fear the connection between Hamas and Iran… It’s complicated. That is a brief summary of the article. You can go online and view this one free (Stratfor).
    Everyone with any sense would fear the political and military power of a terrorist group, such as Hamas.
    Ron, I agree. The Europeans hate Israel.

  16. Life is strange because I am actually going to agree with Craig on this one that everyone has been set up to some degree. Now the question remains, what to do about it? As the wheel in the sky keeps on turning (Weapons anyone?)

    Here is an excellent article that Adam B already remarked about in another thread. Sighting his unbiased approval except for the part that included the combination of Abbas and Hamas. But this is what’s really going on in over there.

    ———————————————————————————————-

    Israel’s decision to pour ground troops and armour into the Gaza Strip is a dangerous gamble. If the goal is to reduce the number of rockets Hamas can fire at neighbouring, southern Israeli towns, it is probably achievable – for now. But if Israel proposes to cut the heart out of its most implacable Palestinian opponents, it will fail.

    In either case the mounting casualties, including civilians, from Israel’s disproportionate air, sea and artillery bombardment in densely populated urban areas will so blacken its reputation, and so undermine moderate Arab and Palestinian opinion, that its political position will be seriously weakened.

    It may well be that its goals are different. Infighting over strategy between Tzipi Livni, foreign minister and leader of the governing Kadima party, and Ehud Barak, the pugnacious defence minister who leads Labour in the coalition, is such that Haaretz, a leading newspaper, has called for a ceasefire – in the Israeli cabinet. Both leaders face each other in a general election next month and look to be trying to outflank Benjamin Netanyahu, hawkish leader of the ultra-nationalist Likud – but from the right.

    The overall aim of the politico-military establishment, however, appears to be re-establish the credibility of Israel’s deterrent power, lost in the 34-days’ war against Hizbollah in Lebanon in 2006, which offered a very public exhibition of the limits to Israel’s otherwise overwhelming military might. Now, Mr Barak says, Israel is going to “change the rules of the game”.

    Hamas has recklessly sought to emulate Hizbollah – not least by upgrading its home-made rockets to reach further into Israel – in the delusional belief it can reproduce in southern Israel the balance of terror the Shia Islamists have created across the Israeli-Lebanese border.

    But Hamas militiamen will be able to inflict casualties on Israeli troops if they enter the deadly labyrinth of Gaza City and its refugee camps, as they were suckered into the treacherous ravines of south Lebanon. Israel has failed to control Gaza or shut down Hamas in the past, even after assassinating nearly all its veteran leaders.

    Hamas has deep roots, and its main appeal comes from its resistance to occupation, just as Hizbollah was created by Israel’s 1982 invasion of Lebanon. Such groups win merely by surviving.

    To blunt that message, Israel has mounted probably its most extensive public relations offensive, which includes keeping journalists out of Gaza. This is not just to avoid the sort of images that did so much damage in 2006 – of children being pulled like broken dolls from the ruins of their homes – from getting out. The aim is to place sole blame for this crisis on Hamas and slot it into the global “war on terror”.

    But the claim that the Islamists’ extremism is the main cause of Gaza’s misery, after Israel offered Palestinians freedom by pulling out of the Mediterranean enclave in 2005, is less than a half-truth.

    Gazans have been under blockade since Palestinians had the temerity to elect Hamas three years ago, while Israel has significantly expanded its occupation of the West Bank and Arab east Jerusalem. This is a conflict that can end only if an independent Palestinian state is created on all that occupied land.

    What is urgently needed now is: an internationally monitored ceasefire, of sufficient duration to resume and conclude negotiations on that basis; for Israel then to lift the blockade; and for new elections to decide who speaks for the Palestinians – Fatah, whose position is fast being eroded by this crisis, Hamas, or a combination of them both.

    The incoming Obama administration should signal clearly that it intends to pursue a two-state solution based on the parameters set out by Bill Clinton in 2000 and the comprehensive Arab League peace plan of 2002. A forthright statement of intent may even influence Israeli and Palestinian voters to elect leaders capable of reaching such a deal.

  17. Hamas is doing exactly what they were set up to do, and they are claiming to do it in the name of Allah. Here’s their Covenant: http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=sd&ID=SP109206

    This is an agreement to kill every Jew on the face of the earth, to re-conquer every square inch of soil ever controlled by a Muslim regime, and to engage in an advertising campaign to persuade Muslims that every Muslim has a personal religious duty to murder their neighbors. Experience has shown that what was conceived as a murder pact is in fact a suicide pact, and Hamas is currently busy committing suicide-by-cop. The reason the surrounding Arab and Muslim governments are silent is because they are getting blowback from their creation. When they’ve had enough, when THEY want peace, then there will be peace. Here’s what has to happen.

    This document needs to be repudiated by Muslim clerics. Those are the people with the moral and scholarly authority to state that the document is unIslamic. This is a government-sponsored, government-perpetuated document, but it purports to be made in the name of Allah, and that error must be corrected.

    That’s the first step toward peace.

    The Palestinians who are hostage to Hamas need an option to move away from Hamas. The Arab and Muslim governments that have not yet made peace with Israel need to extend to the Palestinians the right to move there and buy their own homes with their own money.

    That’s the second step toward peace.

    After these things happen, either Jordan or Egypt might be in a position to take over the government of Gaza. By then, Fatah might be able to do it.

    This mess could be resolved within a year. There’s a lot to be won, here: prosperity is only the beginning of it.

  18. When Egypt made the choice of peace, we changed a lot. We are now invested in rebuilding our country. We have neither time nor energy for ideological bull shit. We just want to put food in our tables and we want to build the infra structure of our country. We want to have comfortable lives. We are not that privileged like the fucken Israelis who use the latest technology to destroy people. We are not that depraved and deprived like the Palestinians who lost every single inch of their pride. So for the sake of whatever God you are all having, do not get us involved in your shit. Yes people are angry and hurt by what is happening, but if you asked them whether they want to get involved they will all say no. Why do not the fucken Muslim brotherhood go to Rafah and have their protests there instead of having them in Cairo? I will tell you why, because they are cowards and because they do not want to get involved. They are enjoying the peace and they do not want their ass kicked. We will never fall into your trap and may you both destroy each other and kill each other. May God curse all those who use their religious beliefs to kill others..

  19. Valerie,
    There is a difference between someone saying that s/he will kill you and someone who really ends up killing you (I do have this secret wish that some does that to you because you bore me to death)

  20. Boktor

    Well said. If all our enemies would take your attitude, the lives of me and mine would be far easier. “the next best thing to a noble friend is a noble enemy”. If you spoke your heart honestly, and all that you said is really what you believe, then may G-d give you blessing, peace, and all that you and your country need! May you live far away from us with great prosperity and happiness and never have to even look upon a single Jew if that is your wish!

    But if when you said that the “Palestinians who lost … their pride” you meant that they should continue fighting against me and mine, then may you learn to understand exactly what it means to live with such lunatics!

  21. Eva, Canada says:

    # 17 …May God curse all those who use their religious beliefs to kill others…

    I subscribe to that.

  22. I hope Egypt doesn’t turn into another Lebanon, as in refugee camps which will later lead to a civil war!

  23. Ron and Lynne – what the heck are you talking about?!? Europeans don’t hate Israel/jews, at least not the broad majority. We don’t even hate palestinians, despite them having a track history of violence against us, despite the fact that we have no real involvement in the conflict.

    Europeans on the whole are peace-nicks, who would rather sell out on their hard earned rights than have their anti-war ideals questioned even the slightest. As such, they take serious offence to anyone who raises arms against their neighbour, even if said neighbour is being anything but peaceful. Talking is the way to deal with problems, even if talking is gonna get you killed. Makes sense? On some levels it does and on others it don’t, but “hate” as such is for an insignificant (if extremely vocal!) minority.

  24. Good explanation, Adam. But it still makes no sense :P

    Like this part:

    Europeans on the whole are peace-nicks, who would rather sell out on their hard earned rights than have their anti-war ideals questioned even the slightest.

    Peace-nicks(?) have never earned any rights. Peace-nicks are lambs for the slaughter, and to imply that they worked hard (how? by fighting? they are peace-nicks) to secure their rights from tyranical regimes is an insult to those who actually did. The people who put their lives on the line in the past would not approve!

    And then you get to the “sell-out” part…. see, that’s additional proof they never got anything “hard-earned”… when you pay for something with blood, you don’t turn around and piss it away.

    The “anti-war” part is the worst, though. Where in the hell does the notion that appeasing and/or bowing down before the most violent and criminal regimes in the world can be called “anti-war” come from? If somebody breaks into my house and I decide to hide under the bed and hope they don’t notice me, does that make me “anti-crime”? What about if somebody breaks into my neighbors house, and I hide under the bed and hope he doesn’t come to my house, and then the next day I criticize my neighbor for not having installed an alarm system? Am I “anti-crime”?

    The hypocrisy is quite evident. The only nations that ever catch grief from Europeans are nations that Europeans don’t feel threatened by.

    But that’s not really the topic. I don’t know about Israel, but I’m pretty sure most Western Europeans “hate” the US. If that’s too strong a word for you, how about “dislike intensely”? That one OK? :)

  25. Right, I’ll try to elaborate on what I meant…

    Europeans have, through centuries of enmity, warfare, tyrannies, despots, and discrimination, inch by inch worked our way to the democracies and peaceful co-existance that we see today. In that sense “we” have worked hard for the rights that we now take for granted.

    Peace has (with some merrit) become so important for us that we’re even willing to sacrifice these hard-earned rights, these very foundations of our functioning societies, if it will appease those who have no respect for our way of life. Sad but true.

    What you might construe as hate is nothing of the sort. Rather it’s a gut-reaction against what “we” see as uncivilized behaviour. In “our” way of thinking, there is ALWAYS a way to talk yourself out of a situation, and that way is ALWAYS the best choice. Again, I can see both good and bad in this. There is an adamant trust in the goodness in all people, but there is also a refusal to accept that anything can happen for no good reason at all, and relying too much on talking your way out of a problem can in fact be more hurtfull than other solutions.

    As for the US…? It’s a mixed package, really. Many feel a certain dislike towards the US (sort of like how you guys feel about the french :D ) but at the same time there is high regard for american spirit and initiative and a (reluctant!) fascination with american culture. A few (the radical but vocal minority I mentioned earlier) have taken a step or two further down the path, and for some reason or another have adopted a loathing for the US that defies any real logic – “sour grapes” perhaps, or maybe just ideologi that’s gotten a bit out of control. Remember, those same people usually wear american jeans, eat american junk food, listen to american music, see american movies, and may have even studied in american universities, so don’t take it too literally… :)

  26. Baktor –
    “May God curse all those who use their religious beliefs to kill others..”

    I somehow get the impression that you include Israel in that. What beiliefes we use to justify killing, they sure aren’t religiouse. Most people in Israel are secular, the political leadership is overwhelmingly secular and the military is utterly secular. It must be hard for muslims to grasp, since they involve their religion with practicly everything, but no one in israel is talking about religion and war in the same breath – religion is religion and should not interfer with state affairs.

  27. Nadavu: Nevertheless, to everyone else it seems obvious that orthodox jews have disproportionate influence on israeli politics, and make up a sizeable amount of the illegal settlers, who claim that they have a right to live there “because G-d gave the land to them”…!

  28. Adam – Germany is the third largest arms exporter in the world!
    If “peace is so important to us /you” then why would Germany export so many arms???
    You and him… go kill each other with the munitions we made a profit on. We’ll just stand over here and denounce both of you!

  29. babs, I’m pretty sure the average german has no hand in developing and producing said weapons. I also think that the average german is none too proud of the title…!

  30. Adam B
    What is so perplexing about Europeans are the countless anti-Iraq war demonstrations while the genocide in Darfur barely registers. That is why Americans see anti-americanism. Europeans don’t seem to care about dead bodies, just those killed by Americans. The outrage is very selective.

    You are correct about the belief that dialogue will solve everything. We’ve been dialoging about Darfur for over five years with only a rise in body count as a result.

  31. Could be that europeans hold americans to higher standard than sudanese, and therefore are more outraged when americans take arms against someone…?

    Remember, “war is ALWAYS the worst choice” and when someone you identify closely with has a greater tendency than yourself to choose that solution, that’ll of course be much more upsetting than someone you have nothing in common with.

    Plus, one should never underestimate the underdog-factor – the US will always be the extremely dominant party in a conflict, and therefore, it’s opponent will benefit from underdog-sympathy, regardless of their own methods or agenda.

  32. Boktor,

    What’s the matter, are you afraid somebody will actually read what Hamas has to say for itself? Is that the best you can do, claim that nobody should take their statements about themselves and their goals seriously?

    http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=sd&ID=SP109206

    Hamas, like Al-Qaeda in Iraq, claims to focus on the “enemy”, but when the “enemy” isn’t handy, they kill their nearer neighbors.

    http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/195773.php

  33. Good Job Adam!

  34. Hi Adam,

    Again, good explanation… but I’m totally unconvinced :P

    Plus, one should never underestimate the underdog-factor – the US will always be the extremely dominant party in a conflict, and therefore, it’s opponent will benefit from underdog-sympathy, regardless of their own methods or agenda.

    And the Arabs are the “underdogs” in the Arab-Israeli conflict? On what planet?

    You seem to be trying to make this about Palestinians and Israelis… the Arabs don’t see it that way. They never have, not once since 1948. And now you get to add Iran to the mix.

    Also, if the “underdog” thing was true, and the opposition to violence for it’s own sake was true, there would have been comparable outrage in Europe over what the Russians did in Georgia last year. There wasn’t. Instead, Europeans were having a debate on whether or not the Georgians had brought it upon themselves. There were no mass anti-Russia demonstrations, there were no anti-Russia media campaigns.

    You guys feel pretty threatened by the Russians, don’t you? And for good reason. Don’t blame you a bit for that.

    But what I see, when the only people who ever get tarred and feathered for taking any kind of military action are the US and israel, is “Shhh…. be quiet! Don’t attract any attention! Wait for the big scary bad man to go away!” and “Don’t make any waves!”. This isn’t something new, either. A brief review of European history will show that.

    All that Euros accomplish with this is alienating their potential protectors, and empowering potential (or actual) aggressors. You’ve never actually stopped the US or Israel from doing things that they feel are in their national interests to do. But there may come a time when you want the US (or Israel) to do something that isn’t in their interests, but is in YOUR interests, and the ability to do that has been put in serious jeopardy in my opinion.

  35. babs, I’m pretty sure the average german has no hand in developing and producing said weapons. I also think that the average german is none too proud of the title…!

    Adam – I am not sure what country you come from but I would guess from your remarks that it is an EU country…

    Not “being proud of the title”and not “having a hand in the production of said weapons” is little to fall back on when your entire country wants the rest of the Western world to know what pacifists you are, HA! Germany is a nation of hypocrits as is the rest of the EU.

    If the German nation, and the rest of the EU for that matter, were not happy with the profits made by arms manufacture they would stand up in the streets, wave flags and signs, and make their unhappiness known.

    Let’s face it Adam, they don’t do that because they are not unhappy with the profits to the EU from arms manufacture. They are in their happy place of denying any involvement in armed conflict around the world while quietly ignoring their profits in said conflicts.

    The equlivilent might be my denying any involvement in arms manufacture by the U.S. because I live in Rhode Island as opposed to Texas (or somewhere that there is a large manufacture of arms). No one would buy that argument for a second as it falls on the Federal Government to regulate munitiions manufacture. Same can be said of the EU. What do the annointed in Brussels think of Germany as the #3 world manufacturer of arms???

    The EU is like a petulant child; demanding to be heard but having a very immature opinion. If you want to produce arms and sell them for a profit it is OK with me, sort of, but don’t tell me you are a pacifist. Because that just gets me to thinking what an asshole you are.

  36. charlie 316 says:

    Babs – just out of interest, how many Americans hit the streets these days to protest about the vast amounts of arms that the USA flogs around the world, presumably for a profit. Or is the USA running a charitable arms industry these days? Are you “sort of” okay with that? Why is it hypocritical of the Germans to export arms, but presumably not the USA?

    I don’t think having an arms industry is immoral – it makes sense if you want to defend your country and values in a world where the odd billion of the worlds population would like to see all the West enslaved or destroyed and I don’t think that Europeans hate the USA (outside of Guardian readers that is), but Americans with views as you describe make it hard for us to love you.

    Just one point, Craig, just about every major war in the past 1000 years has been fought in Europe and World War 3 would have been fought there as well. I don’t know what version of European history you are referring to. I wonder if Americans would have a different view on Europeans attitude to war if you had a thousand year plus history of almost non-stop warfare taking place on your homeland. One thing us Brits will absolutely agree with you Americans that its much better to do your fighting on someone else’s turf.

  37. To answer the question you asked babs (heh :P ) … not many Americans take to the streets to protest Arms sales, or anything else. It isn’t our way. Americans didn’t take to the streets after 9/11, either. Additionally, Americans (other than the lunatic fringe at < 1%) don’t attempt to portray themselves as pacifists. Speaking of that lunatic fringe, though, isn’t it odd how often their “peace rallies” turn into violent riots?

    Just one point, Craig, just about every major war in the past 1000 years has been fought in Europe and World War 3 would have been fought there as well.

    Yes. So much for the “pacifist” hypocrisy, eh? Thanks for pointing that out, so I didn’t have to :)

    I don’t know what version of European history you are referring to.

    The version where Europeans were holding peace rallies while their neighbors in the Balkans were committing genocide. The balkans are in Europe too, no? Or do they not count?

    I wonder if Americans would have a different view on Europeans attitude to war if you had a thousand year plus history of almost non-stop warfare taking place on your homeland.

    Probably not, since most Americans are the descendants of people who lived in Europe for most of that 1000 years you refer to. Get what I’m saying? My own ancestors left England as exiles, after the English Civil War. England’s history before that, is also my history.

    One thing us Brits will absolutely agree with you Americans that its much better to do your fighting on someone else’s turf.

    That’s been our turf, over here, a couple times :P

  38. By the way, I want my right to return. I still have my housekey. I expect my passport to be ready, ASAP. The economy over here ain’t so great, and I decided I wanna come home. God help whatever hindu bastard I find living on my property!

  39. Marie Claude says:

    (sort of like how you guys feel about the french )

    I am still regretting that our king got beheaded ; he shouldn’t had spent his whole state budget in helping the Americans to get rid of their masters ; the “sympathetic” results aren’t probant, but may-be it was still wise, cuz the brit empire would have overwhelmed earlier the rest of the world then,

    though I guess it’s because they are too lazy to learn the french language, they still rely on what the perfid Brits write upon us, we all know in Europe that the Brits are very performant at writing their own legend of brave and virtuous Tommies …. honesty fairnest majesty are their motto … LMAO

  40. Seriously… I think the approximately 150 million Americans who are descendants of the English colonists should insist on a right to return. We’re outnumbered in the US these days anyway, and that’s just not right! We can do a lil sumpin about your pacifist problems too. And since we will be 70% of your population, it’s not like you could do anything about it, anyway. Lets see how the British like demographic warfare, shall we? :P

  41. Marie Claude says:

    The version where Europeans were holding peace rallies while their neighbors in the Balkans were committing genocide. The balkans are in Europe too, no? Or do they not count?

    um genocide ? on which side of the Balkans ? cuz Madeleine toobright was in hurry to bomb Belgrade, is she converted to islam ? she was representing the muslim mafia there… and the number of deads were greatly exagerated from the muslim side, while the Serbs’ were shadowed !!! We are happy to welcome the great Albania now.

  42. So committing real genocide on muslims in Europe is OK, but committing fake genocide on Muslims in the middle east is to be condemned? Is that your final answer?

  43. Oh, one more thing!

    You supported what the Serbian mafia did to the… Bosnian/Kosavar/whatever… mafias?

    How would you describe Hezbollah? Would you support some European mafias going into Lebanon to commit genocide there? As punishment to the Muslim mafia?

  44. Marie Claude says:

    Craig, this wasn’t a “genocide” as the medias were describing, and for good raisons, emphasizing.

    check the links I put there :

    http://comments.americanthinker.com/read/42323/243949.html

  45. Marie Claude says:

    How would you describe Hezbollah? Would you support some European mafias going into Lebanon to commit genocide there? As punishment to the Muslim mafia?

    WTF are you talking about ?

  46. Marie Claude says:

    my dear friends, check how we are well considered :

    http://patdollard.com/2009/01/eu-leaders-call-for-new-global-order/#comment-361125

    feel free to post a comment, of course, you are welcome if your helping a poor portugese Navigator :lol:

  47. Craig, this wasn’t a “genocide”…

    Agreed. It was only attempted genocide. I should have said “ethnic cleansing”, which is a more accurate term for what was being done.

    I don’t need any links on the matter… I’ve read far more about it than I ever wanted to in the first place.

    WTF are you talking about ?

    You seemed to be saying that what the Serbs did was justified, due to the Muslim mafia or something. I admit, I had a bit of trouble understanding what you meant. But here again, you seem to be trivializing what happened, so maybe I understood correctly the first time?

    I would have asked if you supported an American or Israeli mafia going in to clean out the Muslims in Lebanon, but I already know you would oppose that. It seems you support this kind of thing when Europeans do it, though. Am I wrong?

  48. Marie Claude says:

    Drillanwr (Demanding A Boob-Job Bailout)

    she is the moderator, and she hates me

    each time “Dan the infidel”, but “the evangelical” is intervening against me, she comes and cuts me down

    Sully is another obssessed against the frenchs, I supposed he’s got a complex of inferiority concerning our enlightened philosophs, that he holds, with Burke, as “evils”, cause of the “equality” motto of our constitution ; he thinks that this is the origin of the socialism and marxism of all over the world !!!! LMAO

  49. Interesting Pat Dollard link,

    “Dollard” is an Anglo-Saxon name. It means “stupid person”. He gets to go back to England too, when we invoke our right to return! I bet the Brits can’t wait. I know I can’t. There’s a lot in the UK that’s needs fixing, and who better than Americans to do that job? Nobody.

  50. Marie Claude says:

    I would have asked if you supported an American or Israeli mafia going in to clean out the Muslims in Lebanon, but I already know you would oppose that. It seems you support this kind of thing when Europeans do it, though. Am I wrong?

    you can go into there, I don’t care at all, but IDF tried it more than once, and didn’t work it so well out, so I don’t expect that you’ll be better than them

    I am afraid nothing will work out until O bama get in touch with the mullahs cuz they are the ones that manipulate Hamas, HBZ, Syria, Lebanon, Talebani for one part, and AQ in Irak and or all over the world (with the beloved Saudi of course)

  51. Marie Claude says:
  52. Marie Claude says:

    Craig, I also think that it’s not a good idea that Obama meats the Mullahs, cuz even they promise to calm down their evil tools in ME, (ie Hamas, HBZ… )
    They are not people on whom we can bet, so why didn’t you bomb them before Saddam ??? at least their military sites, we will have to one day, they are poisoning all the ME countries !!! and threatening our cities in EU

  53. The US will probably not be willing to do anything unilaterally about Iran. The US will probably not even be willing to take the lead on a multilateral approach at this point, because we don’t trust our partners on that, anymore. That’s my best guess, as just another observer! So you guys should take the lead, and we’ll follow along behind :)

  54. Marie Claude – Are you using machine translation? Your comments make no sense at all. I can’t possibly respond because I have no clue what your point is other than a generalized anger…

    To answer Charlie 316

    Europe has positioned themselves diplomatically as pacifists yet, they have member states that supply the vast amount of arms to third world countries. You stated that you are a (collectively) pacifist union. I call you on that. You are nothing more than a union of countries that wish to make a buck off the war industry while at the same time claiming that you do not wish war.
    You asked me how this makes you different from the U.S,. My response is that we do not pretend that all war can be avoided (with under the table deals). We are up front and in your face about it. That angers you and your gov’ts as they are used to doing deals under the table that no one should pay any attention to while you support war in your own way and certainly profit from it. You, the E.U., is rotten to the core and I have no respect for you. You profit from war but claim that you don’t. You are hypocrits.
    The American people don’t march in the streets about munitions dealers because they know about them and think they are OK.
    OTOH, the EU’s don’t march in the streets about their munitions dealers because they don’t WANT to know about them; what they do to boost the economy and, they are just as happy living in their space of “pacifists” that their gov’t has spent so much time encouraging them to think (that is that all war is bad even though they supply a huge amount of arms for war)… The reality is quite a bit different than the “on the street Berliner” would think.
    I hope that answers your question.

  55. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7809160.stm

    “The ambassador and the general were briefing me on the – the vast majority of Iraqis want to live in a peaceful, free world. And we will find these people and we will bring them to justice.”

    Washington DC, 27 October, 2003

  56. Hate will only consume itself!

    Which race of people have historically been able to forgive once the other side has come clean!

    Jews or Muslims?

    Unfortunately it is the Muslims, and they are the ones who are suffering so much!

    Come clean with a Muslim and he will give you a kiss even after threatening to push you all into the sea.

    Its a war of pride and greed between 2 extremely traumatized sides.

    The Israeli’s from the Holocaust and Hamas from the Israeli’s.

    Before the Neocons such as Zvi, Lucifer, RK and Craig come quick to retort. Please examine the fact that Israel created Hamas as well as Hezbollah (by its 1982 invasion of Lebanon) etc.

    You reap what you so folks!

  57. Dude, you were doing so well until the end! You just can’t resist sabotaging yourself, can you?

    Before the Neocons such as Zvi, Lucifer, RK and Craig come quick to retort.

    I think at least two of those are Israeli Jews, so calling them neocons is a bit absurd, don’t you think?

    As for me… I suppose calling me a neocon is better than calling me a zionist. So, I’ll give you a C+ just because you made an effort, even though I’m not a neocon.

    Please examine the fact that Israel created Hamas as well as Hezbollah (by its 1982 invasion of Lebanon) etc.

    I think I heard Israel supported Hamas, back in the days when Hamas was supposedly just a Muslim humanitarian/political oragnization. Not quite the same as “creating it”, but whatever!

    As for Hezbollah, you get an F on that. Khomeini made his intent to export the Revolution (his Revolution) to all Islamic countries known in 1979. He started in Lebanon, since the stage was so well set with the civil war raging and such a high percentage of Shia living there. Israel didn’t invade until 1982, so I hardly see how you can even pretend that the Israeli invasion was responsible. Hence the F you got.

  58. Marie Claude says:

    Babs make an effort, it’ll go easy after :lol:

    though your right, I have often some good raisons to get anger, when your attacked as a whole for representing your country, even the Jews don’t get the kind of insults, nor the muslims, then I find the motivation to fight back the morons

  59. Marie Claude says:
  60. babs, you have so far equated the arms industry with the general population… this is a mistake, since most germans are probably blissfully unaware of the amount of weapons their country produces and sells elsewhere. Those that DO know are probably none too happy, but my guess is that Germany have no laws prohibiting this. In any case, we DO see people taking to the streets all the time, waving flags, and protesting the arms industries… problem is it’s a lost cause (too much money involved) and so the media does not give them much attention.

    Me, I’m from Denmark, and as for us, we DO have laws that prohibit us from selling weapons or even components that are likely to be used in weapons to other countries, including allies like the US and other euro countries. We have recently seen loud protests at the revelation that pension funds were investing in weapons manufacturers (as well as tobacco companies, liquer companies etc.). These funds have now changed their investsments accordingly.

    You may find the general european attitude hypocritical, and I tend to agree with you, but nevertheless I stand by my general description of the european mindset described earlier.

  61. I wasn’t kidding when I said Dollard means “stupid person”. It’s just the middle-english spelling of “Dullard”.

    It seems like that groups choice to call themselves “Dollardites” was ill-conceived :o

  62. Correction: the “o” comes from the old english spelling

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dull

    Main Entry:
    dull
    Pronunciation:
    ˈdəl
    Function:
    adjective
    Etymology:
    Middle English dul; akin to Old English dol foolish, Old Irish dall blind

  63. Craig, come on… Of course the arabs/palestinians are the underdog in the conflict! Israel has won every war they’ve fought, even seriously outnumbered. At present, Israel has a finely tuned, well equipped war-machine as opposed to palestine’s poorly armed skirmish units. Palestine has moral backing from the arab nations at best, while Israel has US military and monetary backing galore… Even if you don’t see it that way, the europeans certainly do.

    As for their reaction to the Russia/Georgia conflict, there WAS uncertainty as for who was the instigator in the first place. Remember, Georgia did “invade” the unruly Southossetia (thereby passing on the underdog card) and the fact that Saakashvili was clearly pro-US worked (as always) like a red rag to the european left, who have never really lost their sympathy to communist russia. Again, I’m not saying I agree with this view – I’m just trying to explain european reactions…

    Can’t say much to your closing comment – sadly it’s probably close to the truth. Europeans oppose the american tendency to solve problems with brute(?) force, but we all still count on american military might to be a balancing factor in keeping the free world free. I myself is somewhere in the middle. I believe in using force to defend western interests and values, but I also feel that americans are novices when it comes to diplomatic finesse, discerning (and swaying) public opinion, and planning beyond the last bombshell. You guys really need to work on those issues…! ;)

  64. Hey Adam, thanks for the response! I was worried I had put you off :)

    Craig, come on… Of course the arabs/palestinians are the underdog in the conflict! Israel has won every war they’ve fought, even seriously outnumbered.

    That’s true. Why is that, do you think? The Israelis didn’t have a tech advantage in any of the conventional wars they fought against Arabs. If the Arabs are underdogs, it’s because they don’t bother with training their soldiers better. That’s not Israel’s fault, is it? You make some peasant who doesn’t want to be there man a tank he barely knows how to operate, and you wonder why he jumps out of the tank to go hide in the bushes when the shooting starts? The odds are against the Israelis, now more than ever with Iran in the “enemy” column. The only advantage they have is that their a lot better, on an individual level. The Arabs could correct their deficiency in that area, but it would take a long time and there haven’t been many “developing nations” that have ever been able to field good troops. So, Arab society would have to be restructured before they could swing it. And if that happened, they probably would no longer wish to waste their lives on pointless wars…

    At present, Israel has a finely tuned, well equipped war-machine as opposed to palestine’s poorly armed skirmish units.

    It’s not really about Palestinians. The Palestinians weren’t even a factor in any of the conventional wars that Israel fought against Arabs, and in the terror war it isn’t only Palestinians that target Israelis.

    Palestine has moral backing from the arab nations at best

    No comment.

    while Israel has US military and monetary backing galore…

    I’m gonna go out on a limb here and guess that the US has sold more military equipment to Arabs in the last 15 years than to Israel. We can dig into that, if you like. And the US is not the only nation that sells weaponry to Arab regimes. As far as money… well, the Arabs are a lot richer than the Israelis, you know. Something to do with all that oil, I heard. So if you are going to argue that the Arabs are the underdogs, financially, well… that’s not gonna fly, with me!

    Even if you don’t see it that way, the europeans certainly do.

    That changes everything! :P

    As for their reaction to the Russia/Georgia conflict, there WAS uncertainty as for who was the instigator in the first place.

    Hmmm…. seems to be less “uncertain” than this case, doesn’t it? After all, the Georgians didn’t attack Russia. Nor did they attack Russians. They attacked south ossetians who had been given Russian passports, in a pretty transparent ploy to create ethnic instability in Georgia. If the US issued American passports to Kurds in Iran, and then the Kurds started attacking Iranians, would it be OK for the US to invade when Iran responds? I ask seriously, because this seems like a clever plan! Especially if our friends in Europe are down with that sort of thing. Wouldn’t want you guys protesting us in the streets and stuff.

    But back to the topic… nevermind, I forgot what it was.

    Can’t say much to your closing comment – sadly it’s probably close to the truth. Europeans oppose the american tendency to solve problems with brute(?) force, but we all still count on american military might to be a balancing factor in keeping the free world free. I myself is somewhere in the middle.

    I can see that. You seem like a pretty reasonable guy, to me.

    I believe in using force to defend western interests and values, but I also feel that americans are novices when it comes to diplomatic finesse

    We are. We always will be. It’s a cultural thing.

    discerning (and swaying) public opinion

    Well, honestly, we don’t much care about anyone else’s opinion. We’re pretty insular people. That’s one criticism people make of us that is valid. It extends to even our military forces, which is one of the reasons we tend not to do well with “nation building”, or occupation.

    and planning beyond the last bombshell. You guys really need to work on those issues…! ;)

    Yeah, we do. We’ve only done well (recently) in countries that were already on our side from the start. We haven’t had much success with an occupation of an enemy since WWII. No idea why it worked then, except maybe everyone was damn tired of fighting.

  65. Craig, a few comments…

    “That’s not Israel’s fault, is it?”

    Never said it was, but it pins the underdog-tag on the palestinians nevertheless… ;)

    “It’s not really about Palestinians.”

    Oh, but it is…! It’s the palestinians that europeans feel pity towards, not AJ or the other a-holes you find in charge in the region, including Hamas.
    Observe please, europeans insists on separating Hamas from the average palestinian on the street, even though they DID vote for them… To some level I agree – the children didn’t vote for anyone, neither did the women, and many of the men probably did so out of fear – but hey… nobody said it was gonna be easy!

    “I’m gonna go out on a limb here and guess that the US has sold more military equipment to Arabs in the last 15 years than to Israel. We can dig into that, if you like. And the US is not the only nation that sells weaponry to Arab regimes. As far as money… well, the Arabs are a lot richer than the Israelis, you know. Something to do with all that oil, I heard.”

    Ah, but you’re talking Saudis and Egyptians and whatnot… It’s the palestinians that are the issue here. Compared to palestine, Israel is rolling in cash and bullets! Still, your comment does raise one question – why is it that, despite their huge cash reserves, Saudi, the Emirates, etc. haven’t shipped tons of military equipment on to the palestinians? Or rather, why is it that the average arab on the street doesn’t ask himself that question? ;)

    “Well, honestly, we don’t much care about anyone else’s opinion. We’re pretty insular people.”

    Craig… that just can’t be true! After all, YOU’RE here on this blog dishing it out pretty well – don’t tell me you don’t care…!?! :)

    “We haven’t had much success with an occupation of an enemy since WWII.”

    As you said, people were tired of fighting. The enemy (Germany, Italy and Japan) had the living sh*t kicked out of them, and afterwards were handed a huge helping hand (you guys did REALLY well back then!!!). That scenario has not happened since then anywhere in the world. It’s a problem I constantly point out to my (european ;) ) friends – you can’t win a war if you’re not prepared to fight it to the bitter end. The enemy has to know that he’s down, and I mean REALLY down! N. Korea, Vietnam, Iraq… all evidence that a half-finished job is potentially even worse than not doing anything at all.

  66. No matter how beautifully you explain it Adam, Craig will undoubtedly retort. It is almost as he feels that he is a heavenly antagonist on a mission from god. ver see the blues brothers lol :)

    Shit I even consider agreeing with him just to get out of my hair lol.

    As for hizbollah, Israel gave khomeini the opening he needed to spread Shiasm with their invasion of Lebanon in 1982. If there was no Israel, there could be no resistance movement called Hiszbollah.

    Do you guys really fail to see that if even one person from any resistance organization survives, then it is a victory for them just by them surviving? If you eradicate both organizations, new ones will arise to fight the huge American proxy military occupation of Palestine.

    Nearly a quarter of the IDF holds American passports and speak perfect English with a Boston or NY accent.

    Am I making myself clear?

    There will always be resistance against occupation, just as their will be people against low wages and inflation.

  67. As for hizbollah, Israel gave khomeini the opening he needed to spread Shiasm with their invasion of Lebanon in 1982. If there was no Israel, there could be no resistance movement called Hiszbollah.

    Good effort. It’s still an F though :P

  68. Adam, thanks for the reply. I still disagree with you about the true nature of Europeans, but I accept your explanation that that is how Europeans see themselves.

    I stand by my claim that Americans don’t really care about anyone else’s opinions! That doesn’t mean we don’t care about other people! Hard to explain… maybe you have to grow up here to understand. We kinda assume that anyone who doesn’t see things our way is wrong, and we are arrogant enough to think that if the whole damn world doesn’t agree with us, they are still wrong, and we are still right.

  69. Craig, fair enough… :)

    In any case, I don’t presume to talk on behalf of all europeans; it’s just my take on the matter, as one european observing others around him…

  70. Craig, thanks for the “meriam” link, I did use it, and got a compliment message from an editor of the” American Thinker”

    you can check it on my place

  71. That’s all any of us can do, Adam. Your opinions seem quite different from what I’ve seen Europeans saying on the blogs the last few years, so I find them very valuable. It’s always nice to talk to people who aren’t caught up in the “group-think”.

    Nomad, see? I bet you never thought my strange interests in history would come in handy for you, eh?

  72. Adam, in 23.:
    On some levels it does and on others it don’t, but “hate” as such is for an insignificant (if extremely vocal!) minority.

    Is that so, Adam? Funny that the majority is so silent. I can hear that, I live in Europe. It is getting nasty.

    To those who ask Egypt to take Gaza into custody: google “Hamas Charter”. It is available in English. Read it. Then leave Egypt alone.

  73. he, even sometimes a little frog needs a big lion :lol:

  74. Craig for you to take it upon yourself to grade comments as a headmaster would, is to enlighten us by proving that you are innately unqualified to do so by assuming your views are superior.

    As if anyone here Mr. Antagonist is enrolled in your little special blue dot on mars neo con curriculum. Your opinion is so unique because it is so far right Bush and outdated that it even missed Texas on its way from La.

    Don’t blame your syndrome on patriotism for God and country either man, most of us are born and raised in the States and are pro American but nothing like you, and we are not always right. But the difference is we have our own independent thoughts.

    Sheer special needs is what it is to deny Hezbollah as being the antagonist to the IDF as well as Hamas. The sooner you concede to that fact Mr. Einstein, the sooner an untraveled white boy like your self can clean the wax out of his ears, the sooner you will have a chance on a non Zionist neo con pro Bush website. *wink

    Until then, please enjoy the World Music Awards as a necessary break from the killing of all the guilty 2 year old Hamas militants with their pregnant mom’s lying next to them.

    The World Music awards are big in Gaza I heard!

  75. Sheer special needs is what it is to deny Hezbollah as being the antagonist to the IDF as well as Hamas. The sooner you concede to that fact Mr. Einstein, the sooner an untraveled white boy like your self…

    You probably have no idea how ironic that statement is, in this specific case :o

    If you want to re-write the history of the middle-east just to make Israel look bad, that’s up to you. Nothing new. And, you will change nothing.

    Anyway, this isn’t the first time somebody from the lunatic fringe has claimed their views reflect the “true” views of Americans. Turn on a television. Read a newspaper. Look at the statements coming out of the DEMOCRATIC party (are they all neocons too?) and talk to your neighbors. Then tell me how mainstream YOUR opinions are, eh?

  76. Dude i don’t have to try to make Israel look bad, they already are doing so themselves beyond anyone’s interference.
    Your inference that I am trying to make Israel look bad proves that you are an anti-Semite, by attacking an ancient Egyptian American like myself.

    You are insanely absurd, a liar, I never assumed that anyone’s views are the right ones. you are a compulsive antagonist. You make yourself look bad. You are not to be taken seriously anymore. Even if you copy something good that Adam says, PERIOD. You are an instigator bred on bread butter and lies alone!

  77. Ahhhhh, you are the famous Craig that has been harassing twosret. OK, case closed! Please proceed with you lies and false accustaions.

    I dare you to explicitly quote any of your false accusations that you made in your last comment. I freaking dare you.

    Igorrance perishes baby!

  78. most of us are born and raised in the States and are pro American but nothing like you

    If you are “born and raised” in the United States, and have the views you have, then I feel sorry for you. You don’t fit in anywhere. Not only are you completely at odds with 99% of your fellow American citizens, you are at odds with most of the Arab world you try so hard to defend as well. Have you considered moving to Europe? Seriously. You might be happier there, and then you wouldn’t have to spend so much time venting your frustrations on strangers.

  79. You just look plain bad, like a hamas corn bred American red neck yelling yeee haaa and not even knowing what that means!

    You look really bad dude, even on this electronic zion blog!

  80. You mean venting on eliteist antagonizing rednecks who can’t see the correlation that energy comes from food and that in 1982 hezbollah was born as an IDF deterrent. This is staright from the State department numb nuts and the Arab world alike. hello Antagonist!

  81. Ahhhhh, you are the famous Craig that has been harassing twosret.

    Lol. I think most of us have always known you were a “friend” of twosret’s, and I think you’ve always known about all that history on this blog. Did you think your “change in tone” gave you a fresh start or something? Oh, and now you are deciding to go back to your old trollish behavior, just because you “found out” who you are really arguing with, right? What a shocker! So different from the behavior of the people you defend, isn’t it? And you wonder why nobody is interested in ceasefires!? :o

    I suppose you really thought that once you got serious you’d be able to win arguments on the merits, because you are so much more intelligent than everyone else, and now that hasn’t been the case so you’ve decided that you have to come up with some kind of excuse to declare cyber-jihad to cover up your intellectual shortcomings, eh? Oh well. It was interesting seeing you try to defend your positions logically, for as long as it lasted.

    Good hunting :)

  82. PS-It’s nice to see a troll snap, for a change :P

    Try breathing into a paper bag, I heard it helps with the hyper-ventilating!

  83. It is a very serious offence to call someone a liar who is not a liar.

    But you Craig are A PROVEN RECKLESS LIAR. So keep slinging your trash and rash unfounded accusations here, after all what better place to make unfounded anti Semite insinuations about me you Marxist white supremacist anti Arab Arian nation thug. You give new meaning to the word exclusive anti tolerant Jihadi Bush whacker.

    You just couldn;t be civilized could you, spewing 100% unfounded bile?

  84. All anyone had to do is read back posts and find out that you and Twosret have a history. Not her and I. I see the troll calling hasn’t stopped either, as if you own this blog. I believe you even made accusations that she has admin privileges on this blog, which I doubt very much, just because she is so apathetic to your likes.

    I apologize for taking you seriously.

    I assure you it wont happen again.

    It seems Twosret has showed good taste by avoiding here all together during the Gaza conflict. If I were a pro Hamas guy, what would I be doing here at a time like this talking to an instigating racist liar?

    I see a situation, I analyze it and am with 3/4 of the worlds population that is against it. Even 1/5 of Israel’s population took to the streets to protest it. So Craig, plz quite being a selective anti Semite. I am sorry your Muslim boss fired you from Burger King!

    Adam and the other moderates, you had better avoid association with radical elements such as Craig if you wish to be taken seriously by the masses.

  85. 72. igni:

    I can, of course, only really speak for myself and the observations I have made…

    The fact that the majority is silent is nothing new, shocking or even lamentable – most people are far to busy with a normal, productive life to spend much time marching in the streets or hanging around blogs, discussing the world situation endlessly (obviously I can’t be normal then..! ;) ).

    If all one ever hear are the shouts of demonstrators, the words of psyched up, anonymous blog-commenters, or even the words of the media, who are only trying to sell their story from the most emotional viewpoint possible, it’s no wonder if you see every american as gung ho, every european as endlessly fawning, and every arab/muslim as deathdefyingly obstinate. If you take your time to talk things through with ordinary people, you’ll usually find that, underneath the surface, we’re all alot more alike than we think…

    Again, in my eyes, the reason that europeans are so vocal against americans (and israelis) are because we feel a kinship with them on most levels and are frustrated that, on certain issues, they seek a solution that is so alien to what would have been our own choice.

  86. @ Adam, I can agree to that: Again, in my eyes, the reason that Europeans are so vocal against Americans (and israelis) are because we feel a kinship with them on most levels and are frustrated that, on certain issues, they seek a solution that is so alien to what would have been our own choice.

    @ Inji, the Hamas charter is void, Hamas has already agreed to peace with the 67 borders,. However under Israeli policy, we as the entire Arab world, feel that Israel will never let this happen. So if we the moderates feel this way, and need a sign of trust from Israel which will surely never come, then we can’t really blame your terrorists/our resistance fighters.

  87. Another F for you :o

    You aren’t even trying, are you?

  88. – YAWN !!!!!!

    But i will go ahead and give you an A+ for being a disgruntled intolerant racist to anyone who subscribes to Twosrets views, even if it were your own mother. After all she set you up pretty bad, i don’t blame you for all the venom actually. But hey, thats what you get for trying to seduce a married Arab woman. :) :)

  89. “PS-It’s nice to see a troll snap, for a change”

    You pegged that one Craig!!

    Keep it cool and even keeled. We’ll see a melt down soon.

    Craig-1, Sand Ape -0

  90. Yawn…..Teddy AIPAC, how could you….???

    :o

  91. “Teddy AIPAC,”

    Not really so much pro Israel as I am anti “lying terrorists”.

    You got any real arguments or just the usual personal insults?

  92. 83. Sand Ape:

    “you Marxist white supremacist anti Arab Arian nation thug”

    Ah, I… DON’T… think Craig could be called marxist, of all things!!! :D

  93. ““you Marxist white supremacist anti Arab Arian nation thug”

    Ah, I… DON’T… think Craig could be called marxist, of all things!!!”

    You made me giggle Adam!

    I happen to know that Craig is neither a white supremacist (he was married to a Chinese girl I believe) nor anti Arab, he’s had and I’m sure has Arab friends. He is however passionate in his beliefs, as we all are! I say good for him, let’s agree to disagree if we can’t come to a consensus.

    “Arian”?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianism

    Do you mean Aryan? Persian?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_race

  94. STILL AIPAC, NO MATTER HOW YOU CUT IT :)
    :D

  95. The concept of Israel is beyond noble and worth defending!

    The means to which this concept was reached is sheer evil

  96. 93. ted: Maybe I should have added:

    “As for the rest of the adjectives you ascribe to him, I wouldn’t have a clue, at least not judging from his posts in this blog…”

    It DID come off as rather rude, now that I think of it… ;)

  97. GO AIPAC, PROVIDE NAPALM TO HURT PALESTINIAN KIDS, COZ 2 WRONGS MAKEs A RIGHT :)