Israel has just bombed our side of the border, injuring 2 egyptian officers and 2 Children. Needless to say, this constitutes a very clear violation of the camp David treaty, especially that their planes have been invading our airspace a lot lately. Now, unless Israel wishes for open war with Egypt, and god knows we would be more than justified (and you best not doubt that I would be its first cheerleader) it better BACK THE FUCK OFF of the border. I am not sure what class of idiots comprises the current Israeli adminstration, but goddamn they have exceeded even my expectations by fucking up this big. Unless, of course, they do wish to open an Egyptian front, in which case I will assure them a very long and bloody struggle. We got nothing but people who have nothing better to do than fight Israel and die doing so. So whomever idiot did this, you better off his head and quickly, and you better pray that none of those injured are injured gravely or die, or else you are going to see a shit storm headed your way of magnitude you would not believe.
And Israeli readers, if you think I am exaggerating, remember, I am one of those who don't hate you. Can you imagine what those who do will make of this?
The link talks about israel’s trying to eliminate the smuggling tunnels between egypt and gaza. Supposedly, military materiele passes to hamas through these.
Seems to me that, if the above is true, israel doesn’t have much choice but to eliminate the tunnels. And, if egypt is turning a blind eye to the tunnels, it’s inviting some collateral damage during the tunnel demo.
So what’s the deal with the tunnels? Do they exist? Are weapons passing through them from egypt to gaza? What’s mubarak and co’s position on it? What’s yours, sam?
I agree with SM that it’s not acceptable that egyptian border personel are killed or even wounded in this conflict.
That being said, the text only notes that Israek have been bombing close to the border, ie on the Gaza side, and that the egyptian casualties were hit by shrapnel…
I have to agree with dick above, at least to some point – if Egypt will not take appropriate action to put a stop to palestinian smugglers using tunnels under the border, they’re practically asking for actions such as the one described in the article.
or else you are going to see a shit storm headed your way of magnitude you would not believe.or else you are going to see a shit storm headed your way of magnitude you would not believe.
The shit-storm is coming this time anyway, SM. Doesn’t really matter at this point what anyone does or doesn’t do. That’s my gut feeling, anyway. Sorry they bombed your side of the border though
Not guarding the border with Israel is also a violation of the Camp David accords resulting in dozens of Israeli dead and wounded and much economic damage.
Why aren’t you up in arms over your country allowing the
arms smuggling to Hamas?
SM
The article said: “Two Egyptian children and two police officers were wounded by shrapnel from Israel Air Force bombs near a crossing point at Egypt’s border with the Gaza Strip on Sunday, security sources said.”
It did not say anything about bombing Egypt, so calm down.
SM, I agree that Israel should keep Egypt as far away from from being harmed by anything remotely Israeli, because the last thing we need is a re-flare of what we had before the Camp David treaty. And while the shrapnel *did* come from beyond the Egyptian side of the border (at least as far as I can infer from the article – not quite “bombing Egyptian soil” there), it’s the appearances that matter in this case.
Should anyone die from that shrapnel, the facts would be the least of anyone’s concern, simply because by then the event would become a catalyst for inflaming the Egyptian populace.
Still, a smuggling tunnel within shrapnel range of an Egyptian outpost, and no one saw anything? Doesn’t speak too fondly of Egyptian border security, to say the least.
SM, you are a fool if you think these attacks on Rafah border are not coordinated with Egypt.
Also, Egyptians supplying weapons to Hamas is the a “very clear violation of the camp David treaty”, SO GET THE FUCK OFF OUR BACK!
Also, SM, can you explain what’s Mubarak’s interest in supplying Hamas so much weapons? Does he like to play with fire?
There were 500 hundred tunnels! Besides missiles, they brought sheep, even one lion, and fuel. Egyptian military cant spot a fuel truck? Or disappearing sheep?
PS, I would love to have the Sinai back.
I think you are getting a bit hot-headed about this…please…no shoes…
I noted earlier that something like this was bound to happen…I would greatly doubt this was an act of purpose or aggression…but certainly wrong none-the-less…but now y’all gonna cross on over an start a full-on war…come on dude…take a little Prozac…nobody is attacking Egypt nor is there any such intent.
@Jay,
——————————————————————–
# Jay Says:
January 11th, 2009 at 6:57 pm
PS, I would love to have the Sinai back.
———————————————————————
It was never yours in the first place so wtf? Why let out comments like that!
“It was never yours in the first place so wtf?”
I was born there, and a few Bedouins who hate Egypt lived there too.
The Sinai was never Arab. Arabia is Arab.
Arabs are not from north Africa. Arabs are not AFRICAN!
My question to the Sand Monkey is this:
Did you take your shoes off and throw them or just wave them around?
To be clear, my comment was in reference to SM “I would be its first cheerleader” for war.
My reply to that was, I would love to have the Sinai back.
Get it?
The Israelis better keep their pilots and planes in check or someone else will.
Anyhow…after all the hyperbole and silly talk…
IF this happened…how could it be a surprise that people within yards of where a war is going on have a high chance of being hurt? Do believe Israel “targeted” these guys…you know..”hey, Moishe…while we are busy killing little Gazan babies just for fun…lets throw is some Egyptians…hell…look what they did to US back in the Pharoah days”
“Chaim…you are fucking A right…hell…let’s head for downtown Cairo and drop a fucking nuke while we are at it…that’s the Israeli spirit. I mean..we have nothing fucking better to do right?”
Hip hip hooray…we all agree…stop the warn in Gaza and let’s spend the week bombing Egyptians…
Right…well thought out…right on the money
SM…usually you are much more level-headed than this or did somebody hack your site?
Someone else? LOL surely you don’t mean the Egyptian air farce. The IAF would be done with them in 5 min.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but that crossing point is the one that runs right through the middle of the town of Rafah, isn’t it? I don’t know whether the bombs fell in the right place or not, but it does suggest that either the targeting was bad, or the IDF’s judgment was poor. Except that the Egyptian Defense Ministry didn’t comment on the incident, which suggests they could have had a hand in the matter, too.
Poor judgment, all around. Should the IDF have bombed that area even if the Egyptians asked them to?
@AKm: Well, that’s why Hizbullah still exists, eh? You retard.
A terror group and a conventional air force are two completely different things!
@Guy
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
This kind of Israeli arrogance and lawlessness needs to be put to an end.
They can pursue the terrorists all they want, but they need to know their limits or be taught to them.
I saw that..what’s with the lion?
“I was born there, and a few Bedouins who hate Egypt lived there too.
The Sinai was never Arab. Arabia is Arab.
Arabs are not from north Africa. Arabs are not AFRICAN!”
Isn’t this kind of a dangerous argument for anyone who wants to argue that Israel belongs to the Jews because, historically, Jews lived there? I don’t think it’s too controversial to say that most everything between Iraq and Morocco has been populated by an overwhelmingly Arab and Muslim majority for at least 1000 years. And yes I know about Lebanon and, more recently, Israel. I said “most everything.”
This is the stupidest discussion I have ever seen on this site…
Sounds like a group of Junior High School kids…
My dad will beat up your dad…blah blah blah…
Really SM…You typically have so much class…
If it happened…it was during the madness of war. Israel has no beef with Egypt and you know it. This is indicative of no pattern and no intentional malice so everybody here ought to take their Prozac and a long nap.
Sandmonkey,
your cynaical Western approach seems only a thin veneer. Egypt has not lived up to its commitments under the Camp David agreements. So if Israel was looking for a casus belli we would not need to create one. Remember when you felt that Israeli media were preparing for war against Egypt? You seem to be a little paranoid.
For my part I am convinced that the bombing of Rafah was coordinated with Egyptian authorities. I am also sure that an official apology and renumeration for the wounded are on the way.
Suggest you take a few pills to calm yourself down Sandmonkey. I am sure you wouldn’t want a war with Israel for real, sould you?
The Gaza war would never have even happened if Egypt wasn’t permitting terrorists to arm themselves. Egypt can stop the war at any time by committing to block the tunnels.
Innocent Israelis and Palestinians are taking casualties; now it’s innocent Egyptians; Egypt is to a large extent responsible for all these casualties so you might as well shut the fuck up.
i know this sounds insensitive but why were there 2 kids with the soldiers on the borders in times of war?
Pazuzu,let me think…..
My question is “are we sure that these were Egyptian children or were they perhaps palestinian children?”
Remember, there was a tunnel nearby.
What Ruth said. If this has indeed happened, it’s a terrible accident of war.
Should Egypt actually attack Israel… first, why? I mean seriously. Because of an accident that frankly was entirely avoidable by common sense and not letting Hamas snuggle tons and tons of explosives under the border?
And what do you think would happen then? Israel is in a very warlike mood at the moment, and we feel besieged and threatened from all sides. Not a good combination in a bunch of people who underwent a genocide in living memory. Trust me – you don’t want a war.
On the other hand, perhaps the Arab hysteria will leave Mubarak with two choices – attacking Israel and thus destroying Egypt or losing his reign – and possibly life – in a bloody Ikhwan-led coup. And then they’ll go to war with Israel and Egypt will be destroyed anyway.
To minimize damage, he’d have no choice but to have a small war with Israel. Something in the 5K casualties range. Maybe bomb Eilat, have some battles on the border, declare “victory” and stop fighting before IDF retakes all of Sinai. Then negotiate again for Sinai and hope to survive the limited devastation of economy and infrastructure.
Adam said “Isn’t this kind of a dangerous argument for anyone who wants to argue that Israel belongs to the Jews because, historically, Jews lived there?”
I was showing why the argument made by Seif that “It was never yours in the first place” was so idiotic.
According to international laws, if you start a war, and lose territory to the country you attacked, it legally belongs to them. Read about WWII.
The Golan, Gaza, The Sinai desert, and the West Bank legally belonged to Israel. These territories were used to attack Israel. The fact that the UN is controlled by Arab dictatorships and made some UN resolutions is a different problem.
Israel GAVE Egypt the Sinai FOR a peace treaty, not because it was Egypt’s “in the first place” or that it wasn’t LEGALLY belonged to Israel.
If Egypt uses the Sinai for war against Israel. like supplying a terror group with weapons to attack Israel, then Israel can take over it again LEGALLY!
Let’s face it, it doesn’t take anything other than breathing Jews/Israelis to piss off the arabs.
Time for Hosni to bomb the tunnels from his side. Of course, we all know he speaks with a fork tongue, what a snake!
What’s the fuss about? Is killing babies and civillians something new in the Middle East? Since it’s inception, Israel has been a fighting nation. The country was designed and built as a war machine and we (Israel’s neighbours) always keep her busy and on her toes. First it was conventional wars, then we brought in the suicide attack dudes and militias like Hizballah and Hamas. The fun will really start when Iran joins in. So everybody just chill. It doesn’t matter who’s right and who’s wrong. Today it’s Gaza tomorrow somewhere else. Its business as usual in the Middle East.
I sincerely hope that, when they found out, somebody picked up the phone and called Egypt to grovel. That is, unless it was done with Egyptian permission.
SM, you should add Israelis to the list of cool guys that are blaming Egypt!
So now we are the ones violating the Camp David treaty and almost killing 4 of our citizens is just a response to that? hahaha
Bombs falling over a recognized intternational border is an act of war. There are no ifs, ands or buts.
That Israel and Egypt are signatories to a peace treaty make this all the more outrageous.
There is NO justification for Israel’s action.
Egypt cannot be expected to be Israel’s policeman/kapo on the border while Israel blockades all other in-and-out for gaza.
Even the sea is blockaded by israel!
The Gaza airport was DESTROYED by Israel!
The Palestinians are men and women and children. They are not animals in a cage.
Egypt cannot be expected to be Israel’s policeman/kapo on the border while Israel blockades all other in-and-out for gaza.
Actually Egypt can be expected to control its side of the border. War with Israel is the last thing that Egypt wants. A war against a real state as opposed to guerilla warfare is very different.
Egypt will lose and will lose quickly and brutally. The best thing is to keep a lid on things and work it out. War is not a solution to this.
#1
http://www.kuwaittimes.net/read_news.php?newsid=NTI1NDM5NDY0
First prize goes to Abu Sa’ar for comment 23 and second prize goes to Muzeini for comment 26.
I give credit where credit is due, Abu Sa’ar saiys: we feel besieged and threatened from all sides. Not a good combination in a bunch of people who underwent a genocide in living memory. Trust me – you don’t want a war.
This is exactly what I have been saying on why Israel kills indiscriminately. They must be taken at face value, keeping in mind they are holocaust survivors. We are sorry for their pain, yes we really are.
The concept of Israel is beyond noble and worth defending!
The means to which this concept was achieved goes beyond sheer evil though!
eg. GROUPS like(Igrun, Haggana are the same as Hamas and Hezbollah but worse. The later are resistance groups that fight occupation, the former are traumatized lynch mobs)
Everyone intellectualize, name call all you want, these are facts and facts wont go away!
Israel’s arrogance is beyond phenomenal.
First prize goes to Abu Sa’ar for comment 23 and second prize goes to Muzeini for comment 26.
I give credit where credit is due, Abu Sa’ar saiys: we feel besieged and threatened from all sides. Not a good combination in a bunch of people who underwent a genocide in living memory. Trust me – you don’t want a war.
This is exactly what I have been saying on why Israel kills indiscriminately. They must be taken at face value, keeping in mind they are holocaust survivors. We are sorry for their pain, yes we really are.
The concept of Israel is beyond noble and worth defending!
The means to which this concept was achieved goes beyond sheer evil though!
eg. GROUPS like(Igrun, Haggana are the same as Hamas and Hezbollah but worse. The later are resistance groups that fight occupation, the former are traumatized lynch mobs)
Everyone intellectualize, name call all you want, these are facts and facts wont go away!
Israel’s arrogance is beyond phenomenal.
Funny…
Talking about problems with neighbors….maybe you should declare war with these guys also:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1231424929369&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFul
Hey…
Wait a minute…
Is this a hoax?
I just scanned ha’aretz and that story posted here does not even exist…anywhere in the paper that I could see.
Also…I have checked other sources and cannot find it…
Did somebody hack the monkey’s site or trick the monkey?
By-the-way…there is a source that notes Muslims are now threatening Madonna…and all my posts have been blocked on SM
YEEEEEEE turn the war sirens on, who the fuck do they think they are?
Calm down. Take a slow, deep breath or six.
In the referenced Haaretz article, there is no report of where the bomb landed, Gaza or Egypt. The article reports that 4 Egyptians were wounded by shrapnel from a bomb.
It this bad? Yes.
Do I pray for the recovery of the Egyptian victims? Yes.
Does this justify Egypt going to war with Israel? No. (But Israel offering to compensate the victims would go a long way toward reconciliation.)
PS Do not discount the Egytptian Air Force. I met an Egyptian Air Force major who flew a MIG 19 in the ’73 War. He shot down an Israeli F4.
SM,
I am sure it is just an accident, which can be easily clarified. I am sure neither side is wishes for war.
But don’t you think if push were to come to shove Israelis have a case simply by implying that Egyptian side refuses to take care of security and allows weapons to be smuggled into Gaza? Weapons, which hurt Israeli civilians?
SM, I am sure that it was an accident. It cannot have been intentional. There is no doubt that Israel would not want to harm any Egyptian or to jeopardize its relationship with Egypt. The IDF is operating close to those tunnels, you know, and it is more likely that it was an accident than on purpose.
IN MATTERS SUCH AS THESE, IT IS IMPORTANT TO STAY CALM AND TO GET MORE INFORMATION.
I am frankly horrified—terrified actually, because I would not want harm to come to any Egyptian citizen and for relationships between these two nations to deteriorate.
Please remember that accidents happen in these tense situations. Several IDF soldiers were killed by friendly fire just a week or so ago. It was not intentional, and it was a tragedy. This, too, is a tragedy.
I hope that all those who were injured recover completely.
I am so sorry!!!
The whole tunnel thing Sam…
I am pretty sure that Egyptians make a pretty penny out of turning a blind eye to the tunnels. Not only that but… I can’t help but think that the Egyptian gov’t gets a bit of a kick out of it. If they didn’t they wouldn’t allow it to go on.
“Bombs falling over a recognized intternational border is an act of war. There are no ifs, ands or buts.”
The article never said that “bombs were falling in Egypt.” So, get a grip on yourself.
“That Israel and Egypt are signatories to a peace treaty make this all the more outrageous.”
Yeah, a peace treaty that included not colluding with terrorist bodies smuggling tons of munitions into its territory from Egypt. Funny how you don’t want to consider that. It is sick/funny in general how one side of the “peace treaty” is cited while the other side is never mentioned. Kinda like the thousands of rockets into Israel that we should all ignore.
“There is NO justification for Israel’s action.”
See above.
“Egypt cannot be expected to be Israel’s policeman/kapo on the border while Israel blockades all other in-and-out for gaza.”
Egypt is a Muslim nation. They supposedly stand for all Muslims. The FACT is that they want nothing to do with Palestinians. Even the SM said so in a post several days ago. So, who makes Gaza a “prison” the Jews or the Muslim nation of Egypt?
“Even the sea is blockaded by israel!”
And after all these years, the Muslim nation of Egypt has not seen fit to supply ports and sea routes just outside of Gaza to its fellow Muslims for humanitarian purposes and commerce… All the aide and financial support possible by the western world and fellow Muslim nations doesn’t seem to be able to circumvent the “Israeli blockade” of Gaza. Funny how they have this border with Egypt… Hmmmm.
“The Gaza airport was DESTROYED by Israel! ”
Point taken. And yet, Egypt doesn’t have the where with all to supply an airport just outside Gaza to aide its fellow suffering Muslims? No aide available from places like S.A. or Iran for an airport to circumvent the evil Jewish empire? Hmmmm.
“The Palestinians are men and women and children. They are not animals in a cage.”
Oh yes, they are amimals in a cage and the rest of the Muslim world put them there. This situation could be solved in an instant if the Muslim world actually wanted to solve it. Can you imagine the jobs and opportunities that Egypt would have if they rallied the rest of the Muslim world to the cause of the Palestinians. They could divert the entire export and imports of Palestine to their territory and make a mighty profit in so doing. Why do you think Egypt doesn’t take this opportunity?
Do you remember a few months ago when Gazans bulldozed down parts of the wall between the strip and Egypt and then flooded over to buy stuff like crazy? The Egyptians went nuts!!! They demanded that their gov’t put the Palestinians back in their cage…
The Muslim world built the cage and supervise it to this day.
Sam,
If Israel actually dropped a bomb on the Egyptian side of the border, you’d be right. (Well, wrong, since a renewed Israel-Egypt war isn’t really in anyone’s interests, but right in the outrage).
From what I can tell from the article you linked to, though, it looks like (as others have pointed out) the only thing that crossed the border was shrapnel.
That’s bad enough, with or without casualties, and with kids getting hurt its worse (geopolitics aside, anyone with a heart has to hope they pull through ok). But its not causus belli, as the damage to Egypt and its citizens was not intended.
IF it happened…it was an accident in insanity and blur of war…much fought by guys right out of high school…
Take Prozac…take a nap…there, there…
Once again…talk like this works very well for Hamas…who started this entire thing…is losing horrifically…and now will reach for whatever crumb it can so it leaders hiding in shelters and in Syria can claim a great victory…
Hopefully some good will come of this horror…but I don’t think the Palestinians will allow that…but one can hope.
are you turning into Egyptian patriot now ya maneyook or you just ran out of boose
I read the article, too. In this first report, it does seem as if shrapnel caused the injuries. Do bombs that the IDF drops have shrapnel? I wouldn’t have thought so. I was wondering if the bombs hit some kind of ammunition and that exploded across the border? Like tunnels with weapons?
You know, news sources are not taking the time to verify any facts in their rush to be the first to report (and in some cases with the MSM, in their rush to find a new fact to condemn Israel). In fact, all the howling that went on about the IDF attacking aid workers and shooting a truck driver during the three hour ceasefire. …. It does turn out that it was a Hamas sniper that shot at them, killing the driver and wounding others. And, this type of thing has happened before and not by the IDF. I notice that no MSM is correcting the impression that Israel attacked the humanitarian convoy…
It should be easy to verify if a bomb hit on the Egyptian side of the border, because there should be physical evidence, like a big crater or something. In any case, I think you can be assured that it was an accident.
#26 Muzeini:
It is because Israel and Egypt signed a peace treaty that makes Egypt’s lax attitude towards tunneling in her direction all the more outrageous.
You are correct, Palestinians are men, women and children and if they valued their lives and guarded their children, Hamas would not allow the firing of rockets from nearby schools, nor keep arms in a mosque nor encourage their sons and daughters to strap on suicide vests. All of Gaza was returned and what exactly did Israel get from this – other than 3,000 rockets aimed at them. For what purpose? I can almost understand the 7,000 that were fired prior to 2005. Approve of it NO. But post 2005 there was no other reason than to pull Israel into a war.
I think you have confused arrogance with:
The will to live
Protecting citizens
muzeini/sand ape
Shrapnel falling accros the border is not act of war.
On the other hand:
Bombs falling over a recognized international borders is an act of war. NO ifs, ands or buts.
Agreed.
What is your view on the rockets doing the same……………..hmmm?
Correct me if I am wrong but didn’t Egypt ask numerous times to increase its forces on Gaza borders (700 troops to 1500) to be able to control more effectively and Israel refused each and every time?
So Egypt is just supposed to provide all the extra security against all the new dozens/hundreds of tunnels with this pathetic limited number? If Israel wants Egypt to do a better job, maybe they should rethink differently about this instead of considering a security threat like always. They can’t just have it both ways.
Ella, good point.
Sand Ape, Shooting rockets into residential areas, targeting civilians is a crime and an act of war. Whatever one may feel for the Palestinians/Hamas, their firing rockets into Israel, trying to kill civilians is not justified. The ceasefire? It was only necessary because Hamas was firing rockets, and then they did not honor it, and then did not renew it….. who exactly is the aggressor?
J @ 40,
Egypt keeps Gaza border tight already when they need it and how many people do you need to guard 10km stretch of desert? You already got 1 person per each 13m of border. Just try being more efficient and you’ll get by.
J – Link me baby.
“Correct me if I am wrong but didn’t Egypt ask numerous times to increase its forces on Gaza borders (700 troops to 1500) to be able to control more effectively and Israel refused each and every time?”
You got a link to that claim? Even so, how many troops does it take (that are not on the take) to control a 10 km stretch of desert?
37. Lynne:
“In fact, all the howling that went on about the IDF attacking aid workers and shooting a truck driver during the three hour ceasefire. …. It does turn out that it was a Hamas sniper that shot at them, killing the driver and wounding others.”
Link to verification? I’ve only read something along those lines in the Jerusalem Post, and they only cited an IDF spokesperson. I’d like a slightly less biased version…
ehmm, bombing egyptian soldiers is wrong
condolences to their families…
here we see gaza…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_OGhj43GAE
@ J on comment 41, fucking bullseye my friend!
Jay u r living proof a western dumb fuck.
“Arabs are not from north africa ” …Doi doi doi doi..yeh thats because were something called Berber…look it up in a dictionary you dweeb.
I read this article below; it might not be related to the post however it sums up why Hosni Mubarak and co. have their hands tied up;
Robert Fisk: The rotten state of Egypt is too powerless and corrupt to act
Thursday, 1 January 2009
There was a day when we worried about the “Arab masses” – the millions of “ordinary” Arabs on the streets of Cairo, Kuwait, Amman, Beirut – and their reaction to the constant bloodbaths in the Middle East. Could Anwar Sadat restrain the anger of his people? And now – after three decades of Hosni Mubarak – can Mubarak (or “La Vache Qui Rit”, as he is still called in Cairo) restrain the anger of his people? The answer, of course, is that Egyptians and Kuwaitis and Jordanians will be allowed to shout in the streets of their capitals – but then they will be shut down, with the help of the tens of thousands of secret policemen and government militiamen who serve the princes and kings and elderly rulers of the Arab world.
Egyptians demand that Mubarak open the Rafah crossing-point into Gaza, break off diplomatic relations with Israel, even send weapons to Hamas. And there is a kind of perverse beauty in listening to the response of the Egyptian government: why not complain about the three gates which the Israelis refuse to open? And anyway, the Rafah crossing-point is politically controlled by the four powers that produced the “road map” for peace, including Britain and the US. Why blame Mubarak?
To admit that Egypt can’t even open its sovereign border without permission from Washington tells you all you need to know about the powerlessness of the satraps that run the Middle East for us.
Open the Rafah gate – or break off relations with Israel – and Egypt’s economic foundations crumble. Any Arab leader who took that kind of step will find that the West’s economic and military support is withdrawn. Without subventions, Egypt is bankrupt. Of course, it works both ways. Individual Arab leaders are no longer going to make emotional gestures for anyone. When Sadat flew to Jerusalem – “I am tired of the dwarves,” he said of his fellow Arab leaders – he paid the price with his own blood at the Cairo reviewing-stand where one of his own soldiers called him a “Pharaoh” before shooting him dead.
The true disgrace of Egypt, however, is not in its response to the slaughter in Gaza. It is the corruption that has become embedded in an Egyptian society where the idea of service – health, education, genuine security for ordinary people – has simply ceased to exist. It’s a land where the first duty of the police is to protect the regime, where protesters are beaten up by the security police, where young women objecting to Mubarak’s endless regime – likely to be passed on caliph-like to his son Gamal, whatever we may be told – are sexually molested by plain-clothes agents, where prisoners in the Tora-Tora complex are forced to rape each other by their guards.
There has developed in Egypt a kind of religious facade in which the meaning of Islam has become effaced by its physical representation. Egyptian civil “servants” and government officials are often scrupulous in their religious observances – yet they tolerate and connive in rigged elections, violations of the law and prison torture. A young American doctor described to me recently how in a Cairo hospital busy doctors merely blocked doors with plastic chairs to prevent access to patients. In November, the Egyptian newspaper Al-Masry al-Youm reported how doctors abandoned their patients to attend prayers during Ramadan.
And amid all this, Egyptians have to live amid daily slaughter by their own shabby infrastructure. Alaa al-Aswani wrote eloquently in the Cairo paper Al-Dastour that the regime’s “martyrs” outnumber all the dead of Egypt’s wars against Israel – victims of railway accidents, ferry sinkings, the collapse of city buildings, sickness, cancers and pesticide poisonings – all victims, as Aswani says, “of the corruption and abuse of power”. Opening the Rafah border-crossing for wounded Palestinians – the Palestinian medical staff being pushed back into their Gaza prison once the bloodied survivors of air raids have been dumped on Egyptian territory – is not going to change the midden in which Egyptians themselves live.
Sayed Hassan Nasrallah, the Hizbollah secretary general in Lebanon, felt able to call on Egyptians to “rise in their millions” to open the border with Gaza, but they will not do so. Ahmed Aboul Gheit, the feeble Egyptian Foreign Minister, could only taunt the Hizbollah leaders by accusing them of trying to provoke “an anarchy similar to the one they created in their own country.”
But he is well-protected. So is President Mubarak.
Egypt’s malaise is in many ways as dark as that of the Palestinians. Its impotence in the face of Gaza’s suffering is a symbol of its own political sickness.
“Jay u r living proof a western dumb fuck.
“Arabs are not from north africa ” …Doi doi doi doi..yeh thats because were something called Berber…look it up in a dictionary you dweeb.”"
Hahaha…his stupidity doesn’t stop there. Egyptians are not ethnically Arab, they are Arabic speaking north Africans which includes bedouins btw. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptians
In terms of Egypt’s responsibility to stop the smuggling. Maybe we would be much more efficient at that if the Egyptian Army was allowed in Sinai. According to Camp david we can only have a pathetic paramilitary patrol on the border. Unfortunately, Egypt respects its commitments and the treaties it signs.
sharif and AF, isn’t that what Jay was saying…? That egyptians aren’t arab? Seems to me you’re all agreeing!!!
“Unfortunately, Egypt respects its commitments and the treaties it signs.”
That would be fortunately, genius. That is unless you are anxious to see Palestinians roaming Sharm-al-Sheikh in search of new place for refugee camp.
Damn! I was so wrong about SandMonkey. He’s just another Ed Hussain. Bookmark removed…
where is the love?
See, I knew this would happen. The American and Israeli right-wingers only like Sam when he agrees with them 100%, stays servile, and knows his place. When he has the audacity to believe that the lives of his countrymen are worth something, people like Sean get indignant. After all, glorious Israel, defenders of justice and perpetual Holocaust victims, are fighting the subhuman Palestinians! So what if they bomb Egypt? Egypt has tunnels, and Israeli lives are far more precious than dirty Egyptians, am I right or am I right?
Fuck you Israeli right-wingers, fuck you American Christian Zionists. I’m an American and if Canada started dropping bombs on my country, I’d be ready to take their heads.
SM is correct.
Adam B..to say were not Arab is also incorrect…we are mixed with Ayrab blood…u cannot deny that..but initially that dude named Jay was saying Egyptians arent Arabic because Arabs arent from North Africa so the Sinai isnt ours ? wtf ? who thinks like that except a hippopotamus stranded in the middle of a pond made from sewage in the middle of a fucking nowhere world…which matches the description of a redneck btw.
Furthermore..I am not egyptian ..im not arab…i am muslim..the universal connection my friends. harm one muslim the other muslims will throw faeces at ur face.
Kurt@66
“if Canada started dropping bombs on my country, I’d be ready to take their heads”
Absolutely. And SM is right to be upset at the injuries to Egyptians, evidently by Israeli military action.
Now can we reference your quote and ask what you think Israel’s response to Hamas’s missles should be? It seems that you think that by fighting back, it must be the case that Isaelis consider the Palestinians to be subhuman. Can I therefore assume that you consider Canadians to be subhuman?
bj
sharif, I know… I was just pulling your leg, because you seemed to take one of his statements, say that you disagreed with it, and corrected it to… the same! Bad phrasing I suppose…
Oh, but that final paragraph of yours…!?! Makes me shudder! Hopefully you’ll grow out of it! Let me recap – you happen to agree with everything that every other muslim says or does JUST BECAUSE HE’S A MUSLIM? I’m sure glad everyone else doesn’t think that way…! :/
no Adam…I dont agree with stupidity as a whole..but If a muslim is harmed thats when the faeces hits the fan…
but in a case where stupidity is involved…that muslim should be brought to justice…under Islamic law…
during the Calipahte times..a Christian man was beaten by a Muslim..the caliph brought both men CHristian and Muslim..and told the CHristian man to bring him to the ground and step with his foot on his face in public..i know hat ruling sounded kinda medieval and not applicable to current days .. but it is a punishment
and uh,,yeh i think maybe i should been more clear? just so people here dont start thinking uh oh..he hates other peoples of different faiths
no my friends. no. ( I keep saying “my friends” bcos i like immitating Mccains speeches..laughing my buttocks off )
HEy!
so im trying to reply to my friend adam b..but there seems to be a post problem ( this is a test )
Camp David accords … meh! Egypt continues it’s anti-JEW rhetoric, sanctioned by the government via the media. The Egyptian dictatorship is so petrified of its uneducated (except if you call reciting Koran by heart) Israeli/Jew hating masses, it allows for the radicalization of its society by hate professing imams. Why has Mubarak never visited Israel? Because he knows he will end up like Sadat did by the hands of his own people (probably his generals) – DEAD.
Certainly, BrooklynJon, because I *love* it when people make the Canada/US analogy for Israel & Palestine. You see, America and Canada are two separate nations, much like Israel and Egypt. If one attacks the other, retaliation is in order. Israel and Palestine are different. Sixty years ago, within living memory, a group of thugs and terrorists displaced the Palestinians from their country, stole their land, exiled them, and continue to subjugate them today. That’s where the Canada/US analogy falls apart.
As for Hamas and the rocket attacks? I hate Hamas, I hate Islamists in general, and I find the rocket attacks and suicide bombings against civilians to be revolting. I would say the same about these tactics in any legitimate struggle, including the American Revolution if the Patriots had used them. However, I *do* think that Israeli soldiers, police, and government officials are legitimate targets. The Palestinians have every right to turn their guns on official state apparatus and rebel. I would also include the heavily armed settlers who move onto Palestinian lands to be legitimate targets, as they remove themselves from “protected” status by default.
Kurt,
I agree that if a war is on, then a war is on, and soldiers are targets, as are any paramilitary force, be they Israeli religious zealots in arms, Palestinian Jihadists, or whatever. Any civilians (and I mean REAL civilians, not civilians with a rocket launcher in their back yard) that are wounded or killed are a tragedy, on BOTH sides.
In the case of Gaza, as of three years ago, the US/Canada analogy absolutely holds. Israel had been an occupying power, pulled out, and immediately received a fusillade of rockets. The first rocket is a causus belli, legitimising a blockade by air and sea. The sealing of an international land border, on the other hand, is Israel’s soverign right regardless of whether a state is at war or not. The real difference is that Canada is a soverign country and Gaza is not. Or is it? With a legislature, a head of state, an army, representation in major international organizations like the UN the IOC, and an internationally recognized flag, I am pained to understand what exactly Gaza is lacking that keeps it from being a state, and therefore responsible for what happens within its borders like every other state (to be truthful, every other state besides Lebanon).
One final word on the composition of the population of Gaza. It is undeniably true that the Israeli army encouraged Arabs to leave Israel proper during the 1948 War (which, lest we forget, was instigated by Egypt and Syria, and halfheartedly by Jordan). It is also undeniably true that the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem also encouraged the Arabs to leave, so as to make it easier “to drive the Jews into the sea”. It is also undeniably true that the invading Arab armies encouraged the Arabs civilians to leave to make killing Jews easier. And it is lastly also undeniably true that those who left did so expecting to return and claim the dead Jews’ property as their rightful booty.
And of course the “stolen” land, was granted by the UN, and captured during a defensive war. Truth be told, if attention is paid to international law, there is hardly a more legally legitimate state than Israel proper. But as it has been said, the more often a lie is repeated, the more true it sounds.
bj
which matches the description of a redneck btw.
Jews cannot be rednecks, oh parser of words…
BTW, Kurt, I’ve never heard of either Sean or you and I’ve been reading this blog a while. Just saying…
Craig, I’ve argued with you, like, five times in the past three years. I’m the atheist that irks you because I hate Christianity and Buddhism as much as I hate Islam. Unless you’re a different Craig. Are you ‘Programmer Craig’ and a Protestant who doesn’t really like Catholicism? ‘Cause that’s the one I’ve argued with.
Kurt, I haven’t been able to use my blogger profile to comment here in years, and so if we argued “5 times” years ago, and never since then… what are you doing showing up here now and playing yourself off as a regular? You obviously “gave up” on SM’s blog a long time ago. You gonna give him a second chance, now that he is saying something you want to hear? lol.
You ever heard the term “fair-weather friends”? One of SMs best friends is somebody who hates my guts and has moderator rights on this blog, and likes to abuse them – at my expense. You think that makes me happy? I still show up here and participate, because when SM says something important (which he does sometimes!) it’s worth hearing.
PS to Kurt… atheists irk me in general, and I don’t think of myself as a “protestant” first and foremost. I don’t even think of myself as a Christian, first and foremost. That’s just not how I self-identify. If I was arguing with you about religion, you must have been pretty off the wall, because I don’t read political blogs to argue about religion. Do you?
What’s your deal? I just asked if you were the same Craig I argued with. No biggie, but you can fuck off with your “fair-weather friends” bullshit. I read this blog every day but I only post occasionally, mostly because 90% of the discussions are dominated right-wing Christians who enjoy echos or jihadi sympathizers who can’t speak English.
As for the Protestant thing, I must be confusing you with someone else. There’s some guy who constantly rants about papists and the glories of the Reformation here. Thought it was you.
Dude, you reference arguments you had with me under a name I haven’t used here in years to defend yourself from a claim that you aren’t a regular on this blog? You don’t think that’s pretty weak? lol. You made my case for me with that. And your continued focus on the evil’s of religion validates my other claim about you. You want to show up here and service your little pet projects just because SM makes a couple posts that give you a good opening, that’s your business but don’t act like you’re a big fan of his.
I still don’t really understand what you’re talking about nor why you seem so pissed. I have no clue what the fuck you’re talking about.
Ending communication, captain.
Still crazy after all these years..
Don’t mind him Kurt; humongous waste of time.
All the bitterness
Reminds of that 80′s hit by tears for fears, “Everybody wants to rule the world.” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMjzxHzZnnI
I still don’t really understand what you’re talking about nor why you seem so pissed.
I seem pissed? I don’t even know who you are, but I do know you showed up here today ranting and raving like a lunatic. Go back and read your comments. Read the comments I made to you. Who is pissed? I’d recommend anger management courses for you, but I bet you’ve already tried them. Maybe due to a court order, even.
I have no clue what the fuck you’re talking about.
See what I mean? Where is that anger coming from? My comments to you were brief and quite clear, and far less offensive than what you’ve fired back at me. Is that the way you have conversations with people in real life too? “I have no clue what the fuck you are talking about” is an angry and defensive response, usually uttered by people who know they are in the wrong and don’t want to have to admit it. It’s the tactic of a 12 year old. Or, somebody with anger management issues.
Ending communication, captain.
And again, with the passive-aggressiveness. You have to feel like you are in control, don’t you? Especially when you start losing your grip. I bet Freud could have had a field day with you. He was just another Jew though, so what did he know, right?
See, the upside of the internet is I get to practice my non-credentialed psychology on you. The downside is that I don’t get to punch you in the head when you try to close an argument you started by saying “I don’t know what the fuck you are talking about”. Luckily, I don’t know anyone in real life who is that obnoxious. Do you get fired from jobs a lot, by any chance?
Adam B my friend … why …why
why change my words…
if a muslim is hurt by injustice.
Does that seem fair ?
final world for all haters out there : fuck ass titty bitches.
“That would be fortunately, genius. That is unless you are anxious to see Palestinians roaming Sharm-al-Sheikh in search of new place for refugee camp.”
Its unfortunate in the sense that we can not properly defend our borders or prevent the smuggling that Israelis keep whining about precisely because of camp david. And if the Egyptian army does move up to the border, there is no chance of refugee breaches.
I wouldnt mind a greater Israel on my doorstep if they werent such conniving vile liars that twist the truth. Bla bla bla…I know not all Israeli’s are bad etc ad infinitum, but let’s face it most of them are. If it werent for Israel’s God given defect of being historical fuck ups, other Arabs like me would probably still be supporting them now. Historical fuck ups are what they are
I Laugh — I laugh — I Laugh !!
When I hear 60% of people use the term ‘Palestinian Terrorism’ LOLOL — OH DEAR GOD!
That’s like if someone breaks into your house and you try and throw them out, then you are the terrorist — see the irony here — and the cops come and arrest you and make you live in your own attic. Of course you will fire rockets out of your attic at these imbeciles.
Israel committed BREAK AND ENTER and ethnic cleansing.
STREN GANG, IGRUN, HAGANA, LEHI, Yitzhak Rabin, Ariel Sharon, Rehavam Zeevi, Dov Hoz, Moshe Dayan, Yigal Allon and Dr. Ruth Westheimer.
How Israel even gained temporary recognition as a country is beyond me.
To use the word Palestinian terrorists is to be intellectually dishonest as well as severely retarded. Quite being so niave!
87. sharif:
“if a muslim is hurt by injustice. Does that seem fair ?”
No, but then again, I’m not the one saying…
“i am muslim..the universal connection my friends. harm one muslim the other muslims will throw faeces at ur face.”
…and thereby insinuating that no matter what the xplanation might be, if a non-muslim hurts a muslim, you’ll be there throwing faeces in the face of the non-muslim. That’s just plain ignorant, if I may say so…
Sand Are @ 84,
What do you want me to tell you?
Mind away.
AF @ 83,
If peace treaty is no longer adequate for current condition I am sure Egypt and Israel could work something out and most likely they will after war is over but whatever it will become it must be followed.
Israel’s actions speak for itself, shooting trapped fish in a barrel says a lot about a country!
Egypt should respond with military action period!
adam b …universal connection just like how the jews have it ? or cant we muslims also do the same ?
sharif, I’m not advocating any “universal connection” between jews – that’s as much a load of crap as the muslim ditto…
If you have any sense, you will look at a situation and make your decisions based on the facts at hand; not on some imaginary connection, that somehow overrules what’s right and what’s wrong.
For this same reason I am an advocate of banning political parties which base themselves on religious or ethnic groups – such things should not be allowed to seperate humans and split societies…
“Egypt should respond with military action period!”
Twos, do you really believe that?
Teddy,
If any country invade the US air space and throws rocket on it’s soil SURE! same applies to every country in the world
no?
100
ted, what Twos doesn’t understand is the meaning of the word “intent”…
Or the fact that the Mexican army has been crossing the Texas border for years helping drug smugglers get in and out. I hear over and over Iran hasn’t invaded another countries territory in (how many years), the US embassy was and is US territory, they invaded it, are we at war with them? Well at least not a hot war.
Egypt loves it’s American aid far too much to attack Israel. Egypt wants the Iranian Shia backed Hamas defeated just as much as Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Israel. There were months of closed door meetings between the major Arab states and Israel before this happened, it’s not going to be another Lebanon. Just my two cents worth.
ted, I’m agreeing with you here – I think the israelis will have to push it REAL far for the major arab nations to get excited. It’s in their interest to see Hamas (and through them Iran) weakened, if not outright destroyed.
لا مش ممكن
أنت أكيد بتهزر………. يعنى 80 مليون مصري مش لاقين انابيب بوتاجاز عايزيهم يعملوا ايه
يا حبيبي لو حصل مثلا مثلا مثلا ودخلنا حرب مع اسرائيل…… احنا ببساطة هنتناك رسمى
فالاحسن بدل ما نتناك لما اسرائيل تطلع بتاعه نمصه واحنا ساكتين بدل ما يخش في طيزنا
“ted, I’m agreeing with you here”
Thanks Adam, it’s funny how I for one can agree with so many “sane” posters with differing views here. I don’t think the disconnect between Americans and Europeans is as far as some believe but I also feel that diplomacy not backed up by military prowess isn’t diplomacy. It’s merely relying on the kindness of others and kindness seems to be in short supply in todays world.
“It’s merely relying on the kindness of others and kindness seems to be in short supply in todays world.”
Yup. That’s why Gandhi triumphed so beatifully against the brits, but would fail so miserably against Hamas, Hizbollah, Iran, etc…
By the way, there’s another argument that one can indeed set two standards…
“I hear over and over Iran hasn’t invaded another countries territory in (how many years), the US embassy was and is US territory, they invaded it, are we at war with them?”
And the US went in to Iran, overthrew their democracy, and put the shah in power.
For every action, there is a reaction.
What a joke that the EU has now removed the MKO terrorist organisation from its terror blacklist. Last year the UK did the same. Another way to antagonise Ahmedinejad no doubt, especially as the MKO is opposed to the Iranian government. They are not even reporting this in the western media, yet in Iran there are big protests about this decision. That’s the west for you- supporting Israel and the MKO while calling Hamas and Hezbollah terrorists.
Touche at comment 109, what a joke!
Well, THOUSANDS of puny rockets from hamas (an organization created by israeli genius government to oppose yasser arafat) killed a few israelis.. retaliation (or is it retaliation from hamas and then israelis retaliate in conjuction to that retaliation… hmm puzzles me) by sophisticated Israel defence forces who had much more fire power than those damn puny rockets killed a few thousand of palestinian citizens.. how many hamas terrorists had actually been killed.. nobody can be certain as more women and children were killed than men… even UN establishment were attacked by Israelis army.. hmm… It’s not hard to believe that the bombing near egypt border is yet again another israeli crafted planning alone. It does not involved any consent from egypt.. But then again, if egypt wants nothing to do with palestine, then do nothing, as the bombing was near the border, not in egypt territory. My personal opinion for the invasion of air space is simply egypt can always deploy a couple of mobile sam near the border, those IDF pilots are human after all, they can think, they are not monkeys, even monkeys ran away in the face of death. They would think twice to “accidently” invading egypts airspace. Or best yet, egypts pilots can occasionally “accidently” invades Israeli airspace near the border and u can always give excuses such as “searching for terrorist in the war against terror..bla..bla..bla..” that’s what the israeli government would say anyway… if its ok for israel to invade egypt airspace a little then it sure is ok for egypt to invade israeli airspace a little in th name of “War on terrorism” ….. cheers.
Obama is a good orator, he fails at following through with actions. The people in Cairo listening to his speech, seemed to think he was marvellous.
He justified the war in Afghanistan talking about 9/11 and the killing of innocents. How is it that his Yankee troops are killing innocents, and so are his drones?
Why should Hamas lay down its weapons? I thought an occupied people had the right to resist.
The USA could put an end to almost all the world’s conflicts, and it could TELL Israel to behave. Instead it is “negotiating” with Israel, as if Israel is an equal partner on the world stage. Israel, is a US proxy. Stop pretending Mr. Obama.
Next week Mr. Obama will do a 180 degree U-turn.
I want to say that Israel and christians are enemies of Islam(Muslim) we all should get united to fuck them. These Jews and christians are coward by the nature and fears from death and on the other hand Muslims do not fear about death, so why we are not getting together and forming our own unity and the MUSLIM UNITED ORGANIZATION of all Muslim countires so that if in any part of the worldif these Jews and christan do anything with Muslilms we should get notice and do the things accordingly.
You done fucked up now, Israel ?
Like they done fucked up Egypt in the six day war ? HHAaha