Finally

The Ceasefire is here! Just in time for the Sharm AlSheikh summit and two days to spare before the Obama inaguration. Decisions/Recommendation/Bullshit will hopefully get made tomorrow, people will agree to them since the PA head now wants what Hamas wants, thus making meeting the Hamas demands a Fatah Victory, and thus giving both palestinian sides claim to the "victory": Hamas' claim being militaristic, and Fatah's political. And that will suit Israel just fine, because as history teaches us, Israel doesn't mind the arabs claiming victory as long as it gets what it wants, which it probably will. Livni will look like the "Leader" who knows when to go to war and when to resort to diplomacy, and will have the next election in the bag, and Obama will have a very nice Ceasefire awaiting him the moment he steps into the Oval office, fullfilling the old prophecy that the chosen one will bring peace to the middle-east the moment he takes office. And this, of course, leaves us with the clear winner from all of this: Hosny Mubarak. His political victory is enormous on the global stage, because he 1) appeared to be the solid leader unswayed by public opinion or external pressure, 2) the cornerstone of stability in the region, who tirelessly looked for a political solution to the problem and 3) the man whose summit-not Qatar's, not Kuwait's- ended the conflict and had the most international leaders, and thus prominence and legitimacy. It's all so stupid that I want to puke.

See you all when negotiations break down again?

Comments

  1. Holly Shit, that basically summed up what has been happening for the last 30 years since Hos took lead, Its the same routine that has been happening and will continue to happen till doomsday. All is well that ends well rt?

  2. w a7eb bil munasba di ashkur seyadet el rayyes, ra3i el reyada f masr…

  3. Sam, that’s as neat a summary as I think we will get! I don’t think it could be more accurate.

  4. And they all lived happily everafter!

  5. i luv egypt says:

    Thats why i luv Mubarak. Nobody does it like da pharaoh…. Other countries will spit big words and claim bullshit but NDP will always do shit on the low + successfullly

  6. i luv egypt says:

    Sharm el Sheikh fullfilled everybodys demands except Palastine. 1) Israel wants security: Moniter borders. 2) Gaza wants cease-fire: here you go. What about the Arab and Palastinian demands of stopping the Israeli occupation. I know it is impossible but such Arab/Palastinian demands were not discussed at all at the Sharm el sheikh summit. Maybe cuz it an unrealistic demand or the nobody cares about the Arab/palastiian demand?

    Wow only top leaders from Europe can stop the bloodshed. Arabs alone meeting in Qatar or Kuwait will not even make Israel consider a cease-fire. Maybe thats why Egypt knew that arab summits are useless and only a European presence like the one at Sharm can stop blood-shed.

  7. “Maybe cuz it an unrealistic demand or the nobody cares about the Arab/palastiian demand?”

    Problem is, the palestinians needs to show that Israel will not lose vital strategic advanteges by withdrawing… In other words, no more attacks.

    Man, wouldn’t it be great if Hamas/Hizbollah stopped their attacks and the israelis withdrew to their side of the border? Wouldn’t everybody just be happier? Wouldn’t it be nice for us not have an excuse to argue about who is right? It’s hard to imagine that someone DOESN’T wish for that!

  8. ILE,

    What about the Arab and Palastinian demands of stopping the Israeli occupation.

    It would take a peace treaty to settle the status of occupied territory. Way beyond the scope of the ceasefire people were trying to work on.

    You raise a good point, though. The talk in the ME has always been about “peace process” and not “peace treaty”. “Peace Process” always seems to yield a series of stepping-stones (road-map!? :o ) to peace. And of course, nobody ever successfully takes more than one or two of those steps. If both sides want peace, they should negotiate a peace treaty and be done with it. I think they would do just that, if both sides actually wanted peace. It seems to me that neither side really does. I can see how Israel is somewhat disinterested… they have prospered. What I don’t understand is why Palestinians and their Arab allies don’t want peace.

  9. It’ll be interesting to see if Hamas is actually gonna be capable of sticking to their self-declared week-long cease-fire…!

  10. I don’t understand the issue with the border crossings. What does it mean for the border crossings from Gaza to Egypt and from Gaza to Israel to be open or closed?

  11. Cyberdust says:

    May I ask about the borders between Gaza and Egypt, what interests has Egypt to keep them close? This question is a naive one, I know.

  12. Israel didn’t achieve a single one of its goals, once again, except shake up Gaza which was its goal. The technical term is called “deterrence capacity”. Every now and then they look for a pretext to restore the fear of Israel among the Arabs in the region after the defeat by Hezbollah. Plus their inability to launch an attack on Iran, it was inevitable that they would target Hamas because Hamas is also resisting and defying the Israeli will. And guys get this!!

    In the Israeli papers it says Barack was planning the attack already before the last ceasefire and they were just waiting for a provocation by the Palestinains and they broke it on Nov. 4th knowing full well that when they killed the six militants in Gaza Hamas would retaliate. Then Israel would have the pretext to invade and its fear would be reinstated once again. It says so in the Israeli newspapers.

  13. n0ur, if your leaders are so easy to bait, perhaps you should consider new leaders?

  14. The smartest leader we ever had was Arafat, and even then he was a cocksucker. He knew what the Israelis were thinking. Haha he made em go crazy.

  15. Sandmonkey, I love your site here and your posts but you don’t seem to understand something. I am a Canadian Arab, and I know the Arabs have serious faults and the Islamic clergy is a fault in itself but you have to understand that Israel is a war machine, thats how it survives.

    You have not realized that their purpose is to dominate in the Middle East and every while a war like this is going to happen. Why? Because they need to be feared in the Middle East. You really think that their intention was Hamas in this war? Did they succeed?

    What about last year with Hezbollah? These are all just fear tactics. They have nothing to lose, they don’t care for international laws and agreements, they showed this over and over again. They will do whatever they need to do to make it clear to the Arabs whose got the big guns.

    And if you are still thinking they are willing for a two-state solution, then you are crazy.

  16. sorry not last year haha. 2006*

  17. Nour, if Israel’s goal is to dominant the ME, they have a long way to go! Look at a map! Respectfully, how can you begrudge Israel this tiny bit of land? They are defending this little bit of land and they do not seek others. In fact, most Israelis would like to see Gaza returned to Egypt and the West Bank to Jordan, and some of my Palestinian friends tell me that would like that, too. Honestly, Nour, I believe that most people in Israel want a homeland where they can just live safely. Pogrom after progrom, has impressed upon the Jewish people that they cannot live safely among non-Jews. Perhaps you just need to talk to more Israelis about what they want. I don’t know a single one that objects to a two-state solution. The purpose of pulling out of Gaza was to start the peace process, but what they got instead was attacks from Hamas. Hamas will never agree to a peace with Israel. Their stated goal is not only the destruction of Israel but also the death of every Jewish man, woman and child in the world.

  18. Livni ended up looking like an incompetent fool. Along with Olmert and Barak, of course. All they had to do to win the next elections was get Gilad Shalit back. The Troika actually managed to fail, once again, despite a brilliant military operation. IDF won, politicians lost.

    Well, Mr. Netaniyahu looks set to be Israel’s next Prime Minister.

    nOur – deterrence is indeed important, and deterrence was achieved. This operation, however, was 8 years too late in coming. It was meticulously planned and wonderfully executed. And lessons were learned from it – and many more will be learned in analysis – that will enable the next operation to be even more successful.

  19. I’m finding that it is becoming more difficult to distinguish between anti-Israeli and anti-Islamic propaganda. For example, when people object to Israel bombing places where Hamas is shooting but women and children happen to be as a “war crime” they must also be objecting to the Islamic practice of war, specifically when the Prophet Mohamed ordered artillery (mangonels, catapults) employed against fortresses of al-Ta’if when he knew non-combatant women and children were inside. Does that mean Mohamed was a war criminal?

  20. It does not matter if Israel wants peace or not. Hamas is not going to be interested in peace, ever. They’ve signed a contract to commit to perpetual war, against not only the Juice but every Muslim that disagrees with them, and in particular any Muslim head of state that might want to make peace, and to convince every Muslim that they have a religious duty to kill any non-Muslim that travels to any country every formerly held by a Muslim regime, and they are acting on it.

  21. nOur, it is not Israel that wants to dominate the region but IRAN. Iran has been working on a noose around Israel’s neck: Hezbollah from the North, and Hamas from the South. These Iranian puppets start provoking Israel, and Arabs end up paying the price in life, limb and property. The Persians risk nothing, lose nothing, and keep fanning the flames. The Arab leadership, notably Pres. Mubarak, are on to this game, luckily. Unfortunately, the proverbial “Arab Street” has yet to wake up. That includes the Arab Street in Canada, as far as I can tell.

  22. There is something like 15 million Jews in this world lynne, when I say dominate the ME I don’t mean invade. If there was more of them I bet they would invade though but theres only 15 million so they don’t need that much land. That tiny piece of land was required with a deal with Britain, nobody talked to the real land owners, the Palestinians. The Palestinians you know have not suffered under Israeli occupation, talk to their parents or grandparents, you’ll hear something different.

    Gaza returned to Egypt and West bank to Jordan? What happened to Palestine?

    Most people in Israel have served or currently serve in their army, their not innocent flower picking people as they portray themselves to be considering the war crimes committed by the Israeli army and airforces.

    The Israelis you know are a minority, even the ones that were protesting over here in Toronto did not have that mentality. Not to mention the nice little encounters of mine with the ones back home in Ramallah.

    The purpose of pulling out of Gaza was not to start the peace process. They could not hold on to Gaza anymore. The stated rationale was that this would make it easier for Israel to hold onto territory in the West Bank, where the largest Jewish settlements are located.

    The new Palestinian foreign minister of Hamas was ready to negotiate for a two state solution at one point in 2006, but Israel shrugged it off with the whole “I don’t talk to terrorists” thing. You really think Israel would give up some of its land for the Palestinians? Especially to Hamas? And if you don’t believe it then believe it now, Hamas speaks for the Palestinians. They were elected democratically, no matter what your views on them are.

  23. Fiona, Hamas are Sunni Muslims. They have announced that they do not share the ideology of Hezbollah and Iran. Their clergy actually consider them infidels. There is no evidence that Hamas is “Iran’s puppet”, this is just some bullshit the Americans are playing to once again put their targets on Iran.
    Israel looks for provocation, its like a bully trying to start a fight in the playground. Its called pretext, they’ve done it before and will do it again.
    All you’ve proved to me is that the Iranians are braver than the cowardly Arabs, who stood by and did nothing. At least some of them stopped celebrating in Dubai and stood in solidarity.
    Btw, did you just mention Hosni Mubarak? Do you have any idea who that man is? Maybe you should ask Sandmonkey, I think he’ll give you a good analysis.

  24. Nour, pretty name, btw.
    Yes, you seem to understand more about how Israel came to be than many people. Yes, the Jewish people bought the land in many cases from absentee landlords, and this displaced many people living on the land. Of course, this happens everywhere, and it happened to my great grandfather in the US and he had to leave the land that he had come to feel was his own. He moved on and was able after a time to buy other farm land about 500 miles away, land that our family still has. It happens.
    Just a quick look at a simple outline of the history shows that the land was divided up, to be split between the Arabs and the Israelis. The Arabs did not want to accept this, and the Jews did. It is time for there to be peace and for each group to settle in their lands. I have a friend from Ramallah, by chance, who favors the idea of the West Bank becoming part of Jordan.
    Yes, I believe that moving out of Gaza was to be one step toward peace. It should have been. It was not a matter of holding onto Gaza or the West Bank. Israel would like nothing better than for Jordan to take the West Bank and Egypt to take back Gaza or for there to be an independent Palestinian state, the two-state situation—anything but this continued conflict.
    As to Hamas being democratically elected, when a people choose a path of terrorism, they had better be ready to take the consequences. Not everyone agrees with you. Many, many Palestinians fear Hamas, prefer Fatah, and that is a matter that will have to be settled at some point.
    I, like you, deplore the harm that comes to civilians. We agree on that. Surely you also agree that rockets should not be fired at civilians in Israel by Hamas then?

  25. A little too pretty I think, its mostly a girls name :P .
    I agree with you and I also believe it is time for there to be peace and for each group to settle down. That is because I want to live. A lot of people don’t have my mentality, they have the soldiers mentality. Where they will get whats rightfully theirs or die trying. However, I am sure as many others are that if we bow down to America and Israels demands, and we do as they want, we will become their slaves, but we will live.
    Ramallah is a very secular place where Christians and Muslim live side by side and people there are a little more spoiled then your Gazans so I can understand people that come from there are a little more relaxed and have not seen as much poverty and death.
    Lynne you seem to think Israel is a force of good in the ME region, you’re absolutely wrong. Not just in the ME region, they have defied the Palestinians, as they have defied the Arab world, and as they continue to piss on the international community. The have shitted on the UN and the geneva conventions, and they will continue to. They just bombed a hospital and two UN buildings. Was that an accident? A coincidence? I believe in neither. So please don’t speak for Israel, trust me you don’t want to, maybe you are a good person, but they have gone crazy a long time ago. Maybe it was after the holocaust, I don’t know. Dr. Norman Finklestein quotes the Zionist attitude: “Never to forgive, Never to forget”.

    Yeah I agree with you on that, my family and I are from fatah and I have cousins in the Kata’b Al Aqsa, but we stand in solidarity when we see evil.
    Yes I agree the rockets should not be fired at the civilians in Israel because that is how they get their pretext. With little shit like that. Not to mention that these rockets are shittier than the fireworks I buy from Dollar Blitz. I can do more harm with those.

  26. A little too pretty I think, its mostly a girls name :P .
    I agree with you and I also believe it is time for there to be peace and for each group to settle down. That is because I want to live. A lot of people don’t have my mentality, they have the soldiers mentality. Where they will get whats rightfully theirs or die trying. However, I am sure as many others are that if we bow down to America and Israels demands, and we do as they want, we will become their slaves, but we will live.
    Ramallah is a very secular place where Christians and Muslim live side by side and people there are a little more spoiled then your Gazans so I can understand people that come from there are a little more relaxed and have not seen as much poverty and death.
    Lynne you seem to think Israel is a force of good in the ME region, you’re absolutely wrong. Not just in the ME region, they have defied the Palestinians, as they have defied the Arab world, and as they continue to piss on the international community. The have shitted on the UN and the geneva conventions, and they will continue to. They just bombed a hospital and two UN buildings. Was that an accident? A coincidence? I believe in neither. So please don’t speak for Israel, trust me you don’t want to, maybe you are a good person, but they have gone crazy a long time ago. Maybe it was after the holocaust, I don’t know. Dr. Norman Finklestein quotes the Zionist attitude: “Never to forgive, Never to forget”.

    Yeah I agree with you on that, my family and I are from fatah and I have cousins in the Kata’b Al Aqsa, but we stand in solidarity when we see evil.
    Yes I agree the rockets should not be fired at the civilians in Israel because that is how they get their pretext. With little shit like that. Not to mention that these rockets are shittier than the fireworks I buy from Dollar Blitz. I can do more harm with those.

  27. Mike Lebanese says:

    There is no way that the United States and Israel are going to tolerate any resistance in the Arab world.

    Watch out for the next Hezbollah war coming to a theaters near you. No way Israel is going to let may 2000 and july 2006 victory go. No way.

    Condolezza Rice says after the destruction of Lebanon: “This is the birth pangs of a new Middle East”. Only a human freak would compare the birth of a child to the destruction of a country.

  28. Mike Awad says:

    There is no way that the United States and Israel are going to tolerate any resistance in the Arab world.

    Watch out for the next Hizb’Allah war coming to a theaters near you. No way Israel is going to let may 2000 and july 2006 victory go. No way.

    Condolezza Rice says after the destruction of Lebanon: “This is the birth pangs of a new Middle East”. Only a human freak would compare the birth of a child to the destruction of a country.

  29. Nour, it is a wonderful name :)
    I think we disagree on many things, but that is all the more reason for us to keep talking, to try to understand each other and to share our ideas and feelings about this conflict.
    I truly like your statement “I want to live.” I feel the same way.
    Here is where we disagree: I think that in general Israelis want peace with their Arab neighbors and they do not want to harm them physically or economically. Are there bad people in Israel? Of course, just like everywhere. But honestly, Israelis and Palestinians have so much in common, and if the commonality were built on, there could be greater understanding and peace.
    Will you do me a favor? If you have not already done so, will you research (just an outline of facts) the events effecting the Palestinian people and the Jews as it all pertains to this dispute? You would need to go back about 100 years or so. Perhaps we could discuss each point and come to a greater understanding. I think that is important. I hope that you agree.
    I agree with you that rockets should not be fired on people nor suicide missions carried out. I also agree that these are not high tech items, but they have the ability to kill and maim and they do. But let’s not argue about it. I get furious at terrorists, but not at Palestinians who happen to have a difference of opinion.
    I believe that the hits on the hospital and UN building were accidental. About four soldiers were killed by the IDF in friendly fire. I have never been in a war, but I can just imagine that people are operating on sheer nerves and adrenaline, so accidents are bound to occur. Let us not fall into the trap of thinking evil of any group… just my opinion.
    I have asked you to read up and research and I am willing to do the same… I would like to think that in our conversations which anyone here my join, of course, that we come to understand the conflict and the possibilities for a better future. Thanks for responding to my comment!

  30. Although Mubarak and Egypt have been the epitome of self restraint and advocates for Israel…Trust me, no where on earth is Israel hated more!

    Lynne, Israel can’t have that little sliver of land because it was never legally theirs to start off with. Where is your civility? You can’t go around forming nations with guns and then act like a refined non violent female that wants peace! Get off the land and speak like Ghandi from a far and then you might be taken seriously!

  31. Sand Ape, I think that it would be helpful to look at the events that have occurred prior to today, beginning about 100 years ago, and leading to the present-day conflict.
    FYI, I live in Texas.

  32. Lynne, you live in Texas :-) hello neighbor :-)

  33. Twosret, oh my gosh!! I’m in Austin. We are neighbors!! :) Hope that all is well with you!

  34. i luv egypt says:

    I dont understand it when Westerners do not understand why Hamas does not want peace. Dont yall know hamas does not want Israel to exsist in da 1st place. Most Arabs do not want Israel to exsist cuz there was no such thing as Israel. Some old folks remember the genocide of many native palasintian towns in Palastian.

    And please do not argue with me of historic events claiming jews will never do that. We have seen an example of what a jewish state will do (1,500 dead + 4500 injured) to show its presence. I know Israel will never leave but for God’s sake you jews do not have to prove a point by killing 351 children and bombing schools. That is a very harsh way of proving a point.

    Personally i do not support Israel, not because i hate jews, but because they invaided another country and kicked out their native people. How can anybody supprt an occupier? Think of it like that.

    Palastinians were chilling with jews and Christians drinking tea wat eva. Then some blonds and black jews invaid their country claiming it the promised land (EVEN THO GOD GAVE IT TO THE BABYLONIANS, jERMIAH).

    not only many native palas ppl died for no reason, it also caused instability for the rest of the middle east. Like Egypt, our neighbours are pissed off bcuz jews are bombing them killing their children. As arabs we have to deal with it plus if we dont we will be affected directly or inderictly. for e.g. 1) Israel irresponsibly bomb egyptian children which they did. 2) A pissed off palastinan who lost his parents and sisters plus homeless will cross da borders to egypt and bomb some jews in our resorts fucking up our economy.

    N e ways i think ever since European jews invaided Palastian they caused a lot of blood shed and instability unti this very day. They should choose a easy going country next time. Or an Island with no native people to bomb every once and a while to show off thei weapons.

    Fuck this mentality of bombing children to build fear to other arab countries. A very bad choice to settle in the middle east! Plus all that money spent on weapons and living in total fear everyday. how about Australia? Native are too weak to fight back

  35. Not only the last 100 years but also the last 1900 or so as well, paying special attention to how all folks got along with one another before the prophet of Satan heir Hertzel was born.

    My comment stands, absolute! You can’t beat Arabs into submission as history has proven. but in a way, thank you for your belief system, as this will undoubtedly be the catalyst for the Arabs liberating and marching ethnically cleansing occupying army. It isn’t South Park in Houston OK!

    Next time you debate, please use $1000 bills instead of comma’s and punctuation marks, in order to start compensating the Arabs for their genocide. Thank you!

  36. @ i luv Egypt, the more you try to convince these people that you can not kill a peoples will to live free, the madder they get! No wonder God described them in the Bible as the lost wanderers that transgress, as he also did in the Quran. The Jews that were chilling with Christians and Muslims were slackers and weren’t Zionists. Israel needs a homeland because of the Holocaust which means that Israel is a product of Hitler.

  37. You can’t beat Arabs into submission as history has proven.

    Lol. Which history is that? Seems like the Prophet did a pretty good job of beating Arabs into submission, actually. And those were REAL Arabs. From Arabia :o

    But I guess in the APU, history is what Arabs say that it is.

    SM, I’m glad to see you having more Arab readers on your blog, but can you try to find some who don’t cry so much about getting their asses kicked at the same time they say things like this:

    Trust me, no where on earth is Israel hated more!

  38. Sand Ape, I agree with you that genocide is terrible. It is unthinkable by normal people. And, war is total hell, too. That is why i strongly support discussion, based on mutual respect. I think it is the only way to make any progress. Yes, I believe that you are right. Perhaps it’s good to go back hundreds of years in order to put the present conflict into perspective.

  39. Heya, Sand Ape, you are Egyptian right? So, eh… you gonna claim history proves Egyptians can’t be beaten into submission next? Some really good history books you’ve been reading. You did claim you were born and raised in the US, right? Where’d you get those at? Mail order?

  40. i luv egypt @ 27
    - “A pissed off palastinan who lost his parents and sisters plus homeless will cross da borders to egypt and bomb some jews in our resorts fucking up our economy.”

    That is exactly why Egypt closed down its border with hamas. Not because the egyptians are insensitive to the Gaza blockade, but to prevent shit like this from happening causing in the end more damage.

  41. i luv egypt says:

    Then why not stop the Israeli offensive stratgies that piss off palastenian in da 1st place. Israel causes economic instability for the whole region.

    Sorry Sand Ape but jews are not slackers. They are the most productive people on earth. Perhaps they fear harrasment or oppression as they are the minority in every country except Israel.

    30. Craig says: Lol. Which history is that? Seems like the Prophet did a pretty good job of beating Arabs into submission, actually. And those were REAL Arabs. From Arabia

    Craig that sort of submission is irrelevant to what sand ape is arguing. We meant submission to bombarment not God. Damn they always got involve Islam or 9/11 in any conversation.

  42. i luv egypt says:

    You know what… Im Kanokal which is a religion i just made up. Accourding to my religion Finland is my promised land. All my Kanokal lets invaid Finland and kill all the natives. Then if they think of fighting back we will call them terrorists. hmm reminds of something that happened 60 years ago…

  43. Nour

    A little too pretty I think, its mostly a girls name :P .
    I agree with you and I also believe it is time for there to be peace and for each group to settle down. That is because I want to live. A lot of people don’t have my mentality, they have the soldiers mentality. Where they will get whats rightfully theirs or die trying. However, I am sure as many others are that if we bow down to America and Israels demands, and we do as they want, we will become their slaves, but we will live.

    I followed your comments dude…Though obviously intelligent…you are why to grandiose and paranoid in your thinking…and your analysis borders on the bizarre at times…

    And this is why there will probably never be peace. You note it yourself in your comments…because folks like yourself will only blame and follow this conspiritorial and just whacked out way of thinking about Jews and Israelis. You just could not be more wrong.

  44. 12. nOur:

    “…after the defeat by Hezbollah”

    Only Hizbollah fanboys see the 2006 war as a victory. Hiz managed one thing – to stay alive. That doesn’t constitute a victory in, at least not in military terms, and the fact that they haven’t been able to take up their terrorist activities since then is proof of how hard Israel actually hit them…

    “it says Barack was planning the attack already before the last ceasefire”

    Yes. It’s called planing ahead. It’s not like “we’re gonna attack them as soon as we get an excuse”. It’s more like “We KNOW they’re gonna start shooting at us again, so let’s have everything planned for that event”… See the difference?

    “…its fear would be reinstated once again”

    Well, of course that’s one of the objectives! If you’ve got homocidal neighbours, what could be better than to scare them into not attacking, at least for a while…?

  45. Sand Ape:
    “You can’t beat Arabs into submission as history has proven”

    You’ve often insisted that neither egyptians nor palestinians are arabs, and ridiculed others for using that description – make up your mind, will you?!?!

    “…the more you try to convince these people that you can not kill a peoples will to live free, the madder they get”

    That’s what we’re trying to tell you Hamas supporters…

    “…a product of Hitler”

    Whom the arabs supported.

  46. i luv egypt:

    “Dont yall know hamas does not want Israel to exsist in da 1st place.”

    That’s what we’ve been saying all along, but the argument bounces right off like water to a goose…!

    “…cuz there was no such thing as Israel”

    Well, we all know there once was such a thing as Israel, at least a looong time ago. There never was a country called Palestine, though, so it’s an argument that’ll come back and bite them I’m afraid….

    “…but because they invaided another country and kicked out their native people”

    How do you figure? Show me the borders, the government, the passports that existed before Israel. And how abouit the jews and christians that have been living in the region since before Muhammed even got the idea of Islam…?

    “Palastinians were chilling with jews and Christians drinking tea wat eva. Then some blonds and black jews invaid their country”

    Why was it “their” country? Why wasn’t it the jews country or the christians country?

    “Israel irresponsibly bomb egyptian children which they did.”

    I remember Israel bombing close to the border, and egyptians irresponsibly letting their kids run around close to a war zone… But i digress – it’s terrible that those poor kids have to suffer because of adults’ stupidity!

    “Fuck this mentality of bombing children to build fear to other arab countries”

    But it’s ok as long as it’s arabs bombing children? I mean, let’s face it – arab terrorists in the whole region has many more childrens’ lives on their conscience than do the US, Euro or Israeli military combined, but no complaint is ever heard from you guys about that…

  47. Adam, you are clinically foaming at the mouth right now and having an obvious break down. Proving your genetic relation to the description of a Jews in the Bible and Quran, as being a deceitful lying people, as you have evidently lied 3 times in your last post in an attempt to humour yourself!.

    1.) Never did Ii once refer to Egyptians as not being Arabs (I aint egypeter) and my reference to the Palestinians was an attempt to shut down the antagonist Craig, which I successfully did BTW on the thread in which you read that. (So eat your heart out!)

    2.) @ this demeaning comment: That’s what we’re trying to tell you Hamas supporters…(Umm, where do I start? Hamas is a resistance to occupational strength murdering and displacing innocents. While Israel is a THIEF with big guns! So ya, big difference there cow boy) Actually you should be ashamed of yourself!

    3.) Yes, Hitler played on our intrinsic knowledge that Jews are in fact morally inferior to the rest of the world. I will admit that! i will also admitt, knowing what we know today, we Arabs feel that we did not support Hitler out nearly as much as should have.

  48. Sand Ape:

    1. I believe you have, but thanks for openly admitting that you’ve lied about the palestinians – very nice to keep in mind when reading your comments…
    2. I was just answering someone’s question. He asked if we didn’t know that Hamas wanted the destruction of Israel; I said we’ve been pointing that out all along. Do you actually disagree with any of that or are you just babling incoherently?
    3. “that Jews are in fact morally inferior to the rest of the world.” And you demand that we should treat you with respect, sporting that attitude? Lol! But thanks for openly admitting that you agreed with Hitler’s policy. Sort of put’s you in perspective…!

    Oh my… should I laugh or should I cry?

  49. and my reference to the Palestinians was an attempt to shut down the antagonist Craig

    I got shut down!? You went and declared victory on me while I wasn’t looking, eh? lol

  50. i luv egypt says:

    Adam i can show you borders and passports, how about post cards? Will that convince you?

    You want proof of Palastinain genocides since the Zionist occupiation? I can show you what you want Adam.

    And for those people like ADAM whom claim Palastian was once Israel, yep it sure was with no doubt. But Israel “was” (past tense) the promised land to the jews whom were the only worshippers of God. God gave them a land called Israel because they were oppressed in other pagan empires such as Egypt. So the land of Israel is named and given by God to the jews. I think all Christians, Muslims and Jews believe that.

    So Israel can be looked at as an intangible thing. It is a land given by God only on his command and can also be taken away from God. So God gave them Israel but also took it away from them to the bablyonians and even demanded to not fight the babylonians. Actually Jews believe that they are not meant to be in one place for their wrong doing back in ancient times. Ive seen a lot of Rabbis against Zionism as they say it is against the jewish commandments. So God gave and took back Israel and it is sinful for jews to unite again, Rabbis words not mine.

    According to humanity and the endless genocides, Israel invaiding Palastine was a total genocide until this day.

    From a religious point of view, Israel being formed again after God commanded it to collapse is Sinful.

    This might sound very bad, but now i can finaly argue that Israel with evidence have brutaly massaced palastinians. Now people can believe me because of what happened in Gaza days ago. Now the whole world knows how ruthless israel is. They did 2009 where the media is vast and almost in every corner. Not to mention all the human rights people and how people view wars after the 60s. So imagine how easy was it for the Israeli settlers to kill palastinians and get away with it. No cameras or Al jazeera, even if there was, people did not give fuck about people’s lives back in the days. We had nazis when Israel was established.

  51. i luv egypt:

    I think you misunderstand me… I’m not religious, so ANY claim to ANYTHING backed up by religion is void. However, it’s obvious that, as far back as our history goes, the jews were the first people still in existance to this day, that lived in what is now Israel, and their descendants have been living there ever since. In other words, they have as much claim to the land as anyone.

    I would, however, like to see proof of a pre-Israel palestinian state, yes pleae…

    “Now the whole world knows how ruthless israel is.”

    Well… that’s YOUR opinion.

  52. Eva, Canada says:

    I’d say that Israel screwed up again as it did in Lebanon. Was Hamas completely defeted? Not! Will Hamas launch missiles at Israel as soon as they can? You bet! Back to square one.

    Another frequent Israeli faux-pas is the carnage of civilian population. Very bad PR! If I planned the destruction of Hamas, the first item on my list would be to provide a safe compound for civilians, stocked with water, food and other necessities. Then I’d have a go at Hamas without worrying about civilian casualties. Should the Palestinans refuse the offer of food and safety, or should they be prevented to take advantage of such offer by Hamas who needs civilian casualties for propaganda purpose, then I’d be on a solid moral ground. Which Israel is not. Shooting innocent people like fish in a barrel is appaling by any standard.

  53. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7836869.stm

    “Hamas later declared its own truce with one of its leaders claiming a “great victory” over Israel.”

    :D I wonder what qualifies as a defeat?

    “He said the first priority was water, as half a million had been without it since the conflict began. Huge numbers of people were also without power, he added.”

    Odd, how half a million peoplle have survived 3 weeks without water… Must be some sort of record.

  54. Eva:

    How much have we heard from Hizbollah since 2006? That’s right – hardly anything. Let’s see if the same can’t be said of Hamas in a year or two…

    Casualties in the civilian population is hardly avoidable, particularly when Hamas insists on mingling with said population, and prefers to fight out of uniform – how the heck are they going to be able to discern which are civilians and which are militants?

  55. Nour:

    “Yes I agree the rockets should not be fired at the civilians in Israel because that is how they get their pretext. With little shit like that. ”

    And this mentality is exactly why the Palestinians are such an abysmal failure. Irrational. Genocidal to the bone. Never missing an opportunity to miss an opportunity. Thank the Gods some semi-sane leaders arose in Fateh, who are at least waiting to gain some strength before going after the Juice.

    Which is why there’ll be no peace in the Missile East. Also the reason the Palestinians will never achieve their purpose of Holocaust II.

  56. Eva, Canada: “Shooting innocent people like fish in a barrel is appaling by any standard.”

    Wholeheartedly agreed. Which is why IDF doesn’t do things like it.

    Had we wanted to kill the Palestinians, they’d be dead.
    Hell, had we wanted to kill the Arabs, they’d be dead.

    We don’t. So they ain’t.

  57. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7836869.stm

    UN official John Ging said half a million people had been without water since the conflict began, and huge numbers of people were without power.

    Adam, I agree. UN official John Ging should be fired from whatever useless position he has at the UN immediately. He’s an embarrassment, even by UN standards. Did he even think about how ridiculous that claim was on its face, before he made it?

  58. Again you are twisting and squirming, lying like a real Jew, just as the God of Moses, Jesus and Mohamed has described you in his holy books. Your continual lying is pathetic, saying I admitted that I had lied is exactly what Craig is accusing me of after we kicked his ass! You see the irony here, — you are a liar — and you are calling me a liar?!

    I don’t demand you respect me, because I know that that is beyond you since I side with a people that don’t like to be killed. Blame it on Israel’s PR failure. If you wanna kill kids then kidnap them and molest them secretly in a closed room. Don’t do it in public. In fact I kind of prefer that you hate me because I will undoubtedly hate all those that kill my Arab brethren, especially the ones who are damned by God. Shame on a people who twist the truth to take another persons land and kill by force just because they are rejects of society and are chased away from everywhere they ever lived due to their insipid beliefs of superiority!

    SHAME — SHAME — SHAME

  59. Mr Ging, director of operations for the UN agency for Palestinian refugees (Unrwa), said most important was how to get basic supplies into Gaza.

    “We have a big recovery operation ahead of us, reconstruction – none of it will be possible of course, on any scale, until we get crossing points open,” he told the BBC.

    He’s the head of UNRWA? Well, that guy obviously can’t be trusted with UN money, so I hope he’s getting money from the Saudis for all these plans he has. Maybe the Saudis can send him 3 weeks worth of water for half a million people too. Then they can resurrect the entire population of Gaza and keep them from dying of thirst, next time.

    Seriously, isn’t it a bit absurd that the director of the world’s largest humanitarian relief agency doesn’t have any clue how long people can survive without water? Isn’t he the guy who is responsible for getting food and water to refugees?

  60. @ comment 56, Abu Sa’ar Abu Zift -

    Eva, Canada: “Shooting innocent people like fish in a barrel is appaling by any standard.”

    Wholeheartedly agreed. Which is why IDF doesn’t do things like it.

    [MWHAHAHAHAHA Mw a Ha AHh ahahaaa ha ROFL]

    Had we wanted to kill the Palestinians, they’d be dead.
    Hell, had we wanted to kill the Arabs, they’d be dead.

    We don’t. So they ain’t.

    So basically if I put all 7 of your family members in a Jacuzzi and shoot only 2 of them, that would mean that because I didnt kill them all, I didnt in fact kill 2 of your family members, like sitting fish in a barrel?

    You make me laugh!

    I hate you guys, you prey on the weak. May God take your health and strength for all the people you are always hurting!

  61. So basically if I put all 7 of your family members in a Jacuzzi and shoot only 2 of them

    What grade were you when you dropped out of school? You would have to put 500 Palestinians into a Jacuzzi, and shoot 1 of them, to make that work.

    Actually, since at least half were Hamas militants, you have to put 1000 Palestinians in a Jacuzzi and accidentally kill 1 innocent while deliberately killing 1 criminal.

    No need to thank me. I’m here to help. It’s what I do.

    You make me laugh!

    I hate you guys…

    And this is why I don’t usually respond to you. I try not to egg you on when you start coming unglued, because I think you’ve got some serious emotional problems.

  62. Craig, your silly ass forgot to grade me this time, PATHETIC. Me and the other Arabs here basically get a huge kick out of your attacks and silliness.

    But seriously though, I though about your condition for a moment on my own and then started to feel sorry for you.

    The sooner you come to terms with the fact your comrades that died in Lebanon, died for a good cause, helping the Arabs out. their legacy will live on and your pain will go away!

  63. I thought you said you didn’t know Twosret? lol. You must be Jewish, since according to you they are the ones who lie all the time, right?

    This “John Ging” person is the same one who falsely accused Israel of war crimes. He not only needs to be fired, he needs to be investigated for criminal misconduct. He is required by international law to maintain strict neutrality, which he has obviously failed to do.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7831424.stm

    John Ging told the BBC that in spite of discussions with the Israeli liaison, “three rounds that emitted phosphorus” hit a corner of the Gaza City facility.

  64. Don’t humor yourself, I said that because it was true at the time. Thanks to you, now I do know her. But seriously, why did your friends die over there? weren’t they there tryna help the Arabs? They are only turning in their graves now that you have turned against the cause that they have given their lives for. Or was that untrue and something you just learned how to do from the Jews? Seriously, they are shinning down on you from heaven right now, hoping you will type the right bullshit!

    I give you an F+ until you pay more attention to your own spirituality!

  65. Sand Ape…

    “saying I admitted that I had lied is exactly what Craig is accusing me of”

    You have claimed both that the palestinians are and are not arabs, according to what suits you. When confronted with this, you say, and I quote “…and my reference to the Palestinians was an attempt to…”, admitting that you lied to “win” an argument. Nuff said.

    “I don’t demand you respect me”

    Sure you do – that’s what half your rants are about…

    “since I side with a people that don’t like to be killed”

    Uh, try this link…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWIDZ7Jpdqg

    “I kind of prefer that you hate me”

    I don’t hate you (I’ll leave the hating to you and your compadres) – I feel rather sorry for you for not being able to grasp the situation…

    “I will undoubtedly hate all those that kill my Arab brethren”

    No matter what your arab brethren have done, of course…

    “Shame on a people who twist the truth to take another persons land and kill by force just because they are rejects of society and are chased away from everywhere they ever lived due to their insipid beliefs of superiority”

    A perfect self-description if ever there was one…

  66. I’ve known you were one of Twosret’s friends since you first posted under that name. Her crew have a distinctive… style. How long will it be before you figure you’ve gotten all the mileage you can get out of that handle, and a new dumb_name_dude shows up who sounds just like you, and pretends not to know Twosret? :D

    Same old, same old. 3 years now.

  67. Nour seems to have a post modern view of success. Israel has about 1/1600 the land area of the 21 middle eastern countries.

    Yet for Nour, Israel dominates the area. (I would say that Israel dominates the thinking in the area, but only the thinking of Muslims, but that is more an issue of psychological pathology.)

    I think I owe Sand Monkey, and others, an apology. Sorry, you were right Murabak is the man. Peace is breaking out.

    And I will be back for the next round.

  68. Livni is not going to be elected prime minister. Apart from that I quite agree with you summary.

  69. @ Adam, I was tempting craig to add his two cwnts, never did i say that i believe this. Sorry but for lack of better words, i am forced to call you a morally impoverished asshole for your reverse comments that we the occupoied Arabs are indeed the ones stealing occupying Jews land.

    To quote you:

    ["Shame on a people who twist the truth to take another persons land and kill by force just because they are rejects of society and are chased away from everywhere they ever lived due to their insipid beliefs of superiority”

    A perfect self-description if ever there was one…]

    Oh so that’s what we do huh! LMAO at your poor disgusting calibre of ethics and morality LOL

  70. Craig, this name is my name to stay. In case you havent realized yet, we are in the millions that hate your type. Why on earth would I be one single person when 40 times the population of Israel feels exactly how I do? Does that really make sense to you? At least 50 million people wont hesitate to eat you, yet you feel they wont be able to come here and tell you stop the bloody murder you racist fuck!!!?

    For believing that you have been demoted from an F+ to a flat out F, keep pushing and I will give you an F -

  71. Sand Ape, thank you for once again bringing no argument whatsoever, other than your own subjective opinion, to the conversation…

  72. And thats exactly what we were arguing about, each others lack of personality. AND I proved — AS FAR AS IT IS HUMANLY POSSIBLE TO PROVE TO A LIAR — THAT YOU ARE INDEED A LIAR!

  73. Squirm, Slither, Squirm LOL!

  74. Ismail Henia declares that the resistance won, after Ghaza was destroyed they are thinking of the results of the match, sarcastic they won.

  75. Sand Ape: post 189 in the “The origin of “Israel controls America” conspiracies” topic…

    “FYI, Palestinians are not Arabs per say, they are ancient phillistines who descend from the Canaanites from the blood line of Noah’s son ham and not Shem, therefore Palestinians are not Semite’s, whereas Arabs are.

    The accusation of Palestinians as arabs is one huge factor why Israel is waging a war on them as after stealing their land it wants to dis acknowledge their identity and further expel them to Jordan incorrect assumption that they are Arabs.”

    Those are your words, Sand Ape…

    Let me repeat…

    “under the INCORRECT assumption that they are ARABS”…

    Now, every other topic in this blog features you describing palestinians as arabs, whether it be “our arab brethren” of any other phrase. Point is, you claim that palestinians ARE arabs and you claim that they AREN’T arabs. It’s fine to be confused, but you openly admitted to lying, followed by a denial of your admittance and finally a claim that you have never said such a thing… Well, here it is, black on white, clear as day. Liar.

  76. “AS FAR AS IT IS HUMANLY POSSIBLE TO PROVE TO A LIAR — THAT YOU ARE INDEED A LIAR!”

    Where?

  77. Why on earth would I be one single person when 40 times the population of Israel feels exactly how I do?

    Are you claiming there are that many latent homosexual Arabs who have nothing better to do with their lives than troll Arab blogs and make Arabs look like retarded psychopaths? Because, I read a lot of Arab blogs, and I only see people like that here. And they all seem to know Twosret :o

  78. Hey Adam, you FUCKING Jewish retard. i am trying to be civil but your squirming ass won’t let me. AGAIN I WAS BEING SARCASTIC, ITS NOT AS IF YOU AGREED WITH ANYTHING ISAID BEFORE THAT REMARK ANYWAYS.

    Craig, now you have done it, i have incited you to use my language, as you have called me a latent homosexual ever since I brought the subject up that you were. How very Jewish of you. You are stooping to your actual level, where I am accustomed to breaching your safety nets. So do you really want to play that game with me? I assure you I can be as foul mouthed as any motherfucker can get and will hold nothing sacred. Like smooshing your momma’s sorry ass into the ground, then digging her up and sodomizing whats left of her decaying body from the worms (Jewish excrement).

    You just got an F- for your fellow marines that got popped in their heads and booby trapped to kingdom come! You loser!

    You are a necrophiliac to troll Arab blogs you self admitted troller and self admitted racist! Bring it don’t sing it bitch!

    :)

  79. TWOSRET, Sorry, I tried bas he had it coming — since you are my supposed commander-in-chief — please forgive me!

    :)

  80. “you FUCKING Jewish retard”

    I’ve already pointed out that I’m neither jewish nor israelian – do try to keep up.

    “i am trying to be civil”

    That is one thing you’re not; you’re quite easily the rudest person I’ve ever come across on the net…!

    “I WAS BEING SARCASTIC”

    No you weren’t. Or at least, if you were, you failed miserably… There is nothing sarcastic about your post whatsoever. Do you even know what sarcastic means…? You were being quite descriptive, and unusually argumentative about your claim – you just happen to have the opposite opinion when it’s suits your purposes…

  81. Andrew Brehm says:

    “Gaza returned to Egypt and West bank to Jordan? What happened to Palestine?”

    Going back in history…

    1.

    The British territory?

    The largest part became the Kingdom of Jordan.

    The Negev, coast line, Jerusalem, and the Galil became Israel.

    The rest can become a part of the Kingdom of Jordan or Egypt or declare itself independent, I don’t care; and neither does Israel.

    2.

    The Roman province?

    It used to be called Judaea and was renamed “Palestina” by the pagans to remove the land’s connection to G-d.

    The province stopped existing at some point during the many wars where Christian Romans, Christian Greeks, Zoroastrian and later Muslim Iranians, and Muslim Arabs fought for it. It ended up becoming a part of Turkey, divided into parts of several provinces.

    3.

    The Philistine city states around Gaza?

    Greek invaders (the word “Philistine” or “Palestinian” comes from the Hebrew for “invader”) founded and invaded city states in Canaan, where the Israelites and Phoenicians lived. They eventually assimilated a bit and began speaking a Canaanite language, related to Hebrew and Phoenician.

    They fought the Israelites a bit and eventually lost, an event reported in the Bible as King David beating Goliath, an enemy much larger but less well-armed than Israel. Israelis still feel proud of King David and beating larger enemies using superior weaponry is still part of Israeli customs.

    4.

    Before that?

    There was no “Palestine”. The land was inhabited by Canaanite tribes when Abraham arrived. Muslims believe that G-d told Abraham’s son Yitzaq to settle in Canaan and his other son Yishmael to migrate to Arabia. This has nothing to do with the Greek Philistines nor the later Arab invaders of Canaan.

    Does this answer the question?

  82. “as you have called me a latent homosexual ever since I brought the subject up that you were”

    Sand Ape, to Craigs defence, you’re the one who have threatened to sodomize guys right and left…

    “How very Jewish of you”

    Coming from a man who calls other people racists as a derogatory term… tsk tsk!

    ” I assure you I can be as foul mouthed as any motherfucker can get and will hold nothing sacred.”

    So you’re saying you’re holding back now?! Whoa, I’m looking forward to the looming grammatical gems!!! :D

  83. Andrew, thanks for the short-version history lesson. Hopefully that’ll put a stop to most claims of a “return to the palestinian nation”…

  84. Hey Adam, you FUCKING Jewish retard. i am trying to be civil but your squirming ass won’t let me. AGAIN I WAS BEING SARCASTIC, ITS NOT AS IF YOU AGREED WITH ANYTHING ISAID BEFORE THAT REMARK ANYWAYS.

    And finally shit has hit the fan.
    Guys do you need more?
    ‘Sand Ape’ did not work out for it either.

  85. Andrew Brehm says:

    “palestinian nation”

    Apart from those Greeks after assimilation there never was a “Palestinian” nation. There is an “Arab nation” and a “Palestinian region”.

    If we accept the name “Palestine” for the region, we get Palestinian Jews, Palestinian Arabs, Palestinian Druzim, Palestinian Circassians, Palestinian Samaritans, Palestinian Armenians, and possibly others. None of them have a claim to be the “Palestinian nation” exclusive of the other ethnic or religious groups.

    If the world insists on the existence of a “Palestinian nation”, we should give that title, perhaps, to the Samaritans. According to some, they are the descendants of Israelite tribes of the north, according to others, they are later invaders. Either way, the name “Palestinian”, since it is derived from the Hebrew for “invader” would fit them. They are a mix of a native population of several thousand years and invaders.

  86. @ Adam, Try debating with a Jew or an advocate of a Jew and you will know the meaning of futile and sarcastic at the same time! I take that as a great compliment, although I am so unworthy, but thanks for the compliment!

    @ Andrew, provide a link to your corrupted preposterous claim..or shut the fuck up :)

    @ leo, I am Sandape, your delusions are futile. Please provide your address so I can send one of my west bank boys to take you out. After all Saudi Arabia is supplying 1 billion US to Hamas and Fatah, And after what you cunts did, i wouldnt expect them to spend it on anything but munitions for revenge!

    You will see a great increase in anti Jewish activity, both violent and non violent in the up coming months…

    You want respect when your belligerent nation shamelessly commits war crimes?

    Zionists Jews suck cock!

    End of Story!

  87. As it stands, there is a definate and, considering the present situation, validated demand for a modern palestinian nation, alongside Israel.

    I’m all for that.

    The general problem is that, as we have time and again established here, the palestinian arabs have made up a myth of a pre-Israel palestinian state, the attainment of which is an unavoidable demand. This has set the stage for a conflict with no obvious solution, other than the complete destruction of either side.

    First step in trying to find a more reasonable path to peace is to do away with this fantasy that a pre-Israel palestinian nation actually existed…

    It didn’t.

    When this is accepted it will be much easier to come to some sort of compromise between the two sides.

  88. Andrew Brehm says:

    “Andrew, provide a link to your corrupted preposterous claim”

    Which particular corrupted preposterous claim do you want a link for?

    I find it extremely interesting that you don’t know the history of the land given your strong opinions on what should happen with it.

    There existed three “Palestines” in history: a British territory which became Jordan and Israel, a Roman province which became a part of Turkey, and a union of (probably) Greek city states, which got lost in history.

    Which one do you want to revive?

  89. “@ Adam, Try debating with a Jew or an advocate of a Jew and you will know the meaning of futile and sarcastic at the same time! I take that as a great compliment, although I am so unworthy, but thanks for the compliment!”

    Again you make no sense… What are you trying to say here…? I haven’t given you a compliment; I’ve pointed out that you’ve contradicted yourself time and again, and subsequently admitted to knowingly lying about your point of view in order to further your immediate argument, later to completely dismiss the notion of this admitance. Trying to cover it all up by claiming sarcasm where there obviously was none won’t change that you’re a liar and quibbler.

  90. Andrew Brehm says:

    “And after what you cunts did, i wouldnt expect them to spend it on anything but munitions for revenge!”

    Yes, that is to be expected from the more peaceful among Arabs. May we expect more attacks on schools and kindergardens perpetrated by the most devout of Muslims?

  91. LOL @ Adams last crack head statement: “the Palestinian Arabs have made up a myth of a pre-Israel Palestinian state,”

    Shame on your retarded anti Arab opinions. You should be saying you hate Arabs because they dominated your European asses in the dark ages. Its cause the Israeli’s are dogs that fornicate and have drunken orgies and deny Jesus just like most of you atheist fucks in Europe!

  92. “Shame on your retarded anti Arab opinions. You should be saying you hate Arabs because they dominated your European asses in the dark ages. Its cause the Israeli’s are dogs that fornicate and have drunken orgies and deny Jesus just like most of you atheist fucks in Europe!”

    Actually, they’re just anti-idiot notions… That many arabs right now happen to live up to them is just a sad footnote, that hopefully will change within my lifetime.

    By the way, arabs didn’t domiante my european ass. You conquered parts of Spain for a while and for a short period marched to the gates of Vienna (where you had your butt handed to you). We’ve got way more arabs in Europe right now than we’ve ever had before in history, and they’re friggin’ refugees… Refugees, man! From their own “wonderfull” countries!!! What does that tell you?

  93. Andrew you got it all wrong, the pro Israeli Arabs will cut the throats of unborn Israelis in their mothers wombs and the rest will God willing kill the KG pupils who will undoubtedly grow up to be IDF reservist’s. The neutral Arabs will poison your water and starve you beyond concentration camp recognition. The fundamentals will…well lets just say….even I am scared to think of what they will do to you murdering bastards as a fitting punishment!

    Cheers!

  94. Yup keep being a retard. When Arabs ruled the world you were in the dark ages. the battle you are referring to, The Christians retreated and the Muslims never advanced for your info. Back then, like what Hamas does now, staying alive was considered a victory! All we cared about was Jerusalem and all we will ever care about is Jerusalem. it is a fight to the death! Live with it!

  95. When Arabs ruled the world you were in the dark ages.

    That much is obvious to everybody.

  96. leo your delusional supremacy is priceless, I love how you consider shit hit the fan coz I merely used the age old term, ‘You Jewish retard” to refer to supporter’s of little babies that have been shot in the chest at point blank range, run over, decapitated etc.

    By all means you are making me feel like a war hero by showing your discontent towards me!

  97. let me guess, you Israeli’s truly want the world to believe that you are in the right and treat Arabs better than Jews in God foresaken Israel! How and why else would you come up with this crap?

  98. Oh man, leo… You’re killing me!!! :D I seldom laugh out loud all by my lonesome, but you did it!

    Sand Ape:

    “the battle you are referring to, The Christians retreated and the Muslims never advanced for your info.”

    Sure, they marched all the way to Vienna just to turn back… Mhmm…

    Listen, I know it’s “just” wikipedia, but you might learn something nevertheless…

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Vienna

    “even I am scared to think of what they will do to you murdering bastards as a fitting punishment!”

    In your mind, buddy… in your mind! :D

    “All we cared about was Jerusalem and all we will ever care about is Jerusalem.”

    Am I to understand that you don’t give shit if Mecca is bombed to kingdom come? Or are you just writing without thinking, as usual?

  99. “to refer to supporter’s of little babies that have been shot in the chest at point blank range, run over, decapitated etc.”

    That would be “islamist militant”…

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samir_Kuntar

  100. Adam said oh man leo, I have been insulted beyond recognition and your poor attempt at humor is the only support I got so thank you so much for your stupid meaningless comment, I really appreciated it! regarding Mecca dude, I really wouldn’t go there if I were you!

  101. ROFL, @ that would be Samir Kuntar!

    No wonder they burned Danish embassies, you guys are total fucking goofy racist imbeciles

  102. “Adam said oh man leo, I have been insulted beyond recognition and your poor attempt at humor is the only support I got so thank you so much for your stupid meaningless comment, I really appreciated it! regarding Mecca dude, I really wouldn’t go there if I were you!”

    The only one insulting you is yourself… Regardless, I can’t see why I should possibly stick up for you, seeing as how I disagree with practically everything you say…

    As for Mecca, hey… I’m not ALLOWED to go there, even if I wanted to. Talking about racism… ?!?

    “No wonder they burned Danish embassies, you guys are total fucking goofy racist imbeciles”

    Considering the context, your statement makes no sense whatsoever, but I’m used to that by now… Rest assured – no one was hurt when our embassies was attacked and all expenses were paid by the host governments – money out of arab pockets and into ours. :)

  103. Abu Sa'ar says:

    The funny part is that while Sand Ape is having verbal diarrhea, it is providing potentially useful information.

    Namely, a window into the Arab psyche, sufficient to repeatedly prove my point: no peace is possible with such a mindset. The infantility, the blind hatred, the lack of reasoning ability, the bloodlust, the delusions… Samir Kuntar is a hero of the Arab world, ya Adam B. The shining example which so many Arab children aspire to emulate. Even Twosret here, despite occasionally pretending not to be a genocidal maniac, is a Kuntar wannabe.

    My sole comfort regarding the Arab world in general is that it’s not long for this world. In a couple of decades the black gold will run out; the Saudis will find out they don’t have the money for slaves and terrorists anymore; the rest of the Arab world will find out they don’t have the Saudi money to back up their rotten shambles of economies; the Americans will find out they no longer have to pretend to like these violent, fanatical barbarians; even the Europeans (what’ll remain of them in a couple of decades, that is) are likely to end their masochistic, incestuous affair with the Arab world (in which oil is used as lubricant, to continue the sex metaphor).

    Once I thought that given enough time and prosperity, people like SM will prevail. Now I realize it’s not going to happen in this next century. Not much you can do with a whole culture churning out Samir Kuntars and little else.

  104. Love Egypt

    “Israel invaiding Palastine was a total genocide until this day.”

    Congratulations…I have seen some really dumb comments on this site…but you have taken first place.

    Abu Sa’ar…

    You are right…it is thinking like this that clearly blocks any chance at peace…but can it even be catagorized as thinking? Truly bizarre…just clinches…not real thoughts.

  105. My sole comfort regarding the Arab world in general is that it’s not long for this world. In a couple of decades the black gold will run out

    That is why I supported McCain in his bid for energy independence and that is why I support Obama in his bid for greener World.
    Outcome will be just the same – peace in the ME. :)

  106. Nour, I hoped for an informed dialogue. I love SM’s site because many of the Arab posters here are witty, informed and not blind-sided by the heinous Islamist propaganda. I am sorry that you turned out not to be one of them. Unfortunately (and much to my disappointment) I found in your ramblings only the usual by-product of the poor education one gets in PA-controlled schools, where the textbooks have no map of Israel, and where history lessons are one long distorted and warped propaganda rant. If you, with your command of the English language, and even after having lived in Canada for a while, still believe and openly declare that Jews have no claim to the Land of Israel, we really have nothing further to discuss.

  107. Fiona, at least he’s not rambling like Sand Ape… There’s room to talk, room to disagree and room to sway opinions, all in a reasonably good tone.

    Nour, I disagree with you, but I for one would like to discuss the situation further with you. :)

  108. Nour, I’ve been reading some history recently, not just the ME, but actually more about Russia, Ireland and the US. Actually, I just started trying to figure out the complicated history of the ME. Sand Ape suggested going back hundreds of years and I am trying to do that (major headache already).
    Every border –everywhere—it seems was determined by a conflict, a war, and some kind of peace treaty. These divisions of land did not occur naturally. Even where borders were not “officially” declared, as in South America and the US prior to the 1600s, territories were known to belong to a particular group, and these territories were usually the result of conflict and were established informally by what the group could defend… interesting. Anyway, I’m researching and thinking about possible compromises and accommodations that might help the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, and I hope that I have an opportunity to discuss these with you—and you, too, Adam.

  109. Why do not you admit that Mubarak is our best option right now? Why are you too arrogant to acknowledge that we will suffer if something happens to this man? This region is full of fundamentalists who cannot wait to wreak havoc in their countries. First it is was Algeria’s Abas Madany then it was Palestenian Hamas, then Iraq Qaida. Could Egypt be next. If something happens to Mubarak and if his son does not take over, we are truly fucked!

  110. “1.) Never did Ii once refer to Egyptians as not being Arabs (I aint egypeter) ”

    Wish you were Sand Ape. Actually I wish the entire region was filled with more EgyPeter’s…there would be a lot less fighting and a lot more drinking!

    :)

  111. Boktor: Sorry, but I refuse to accept that the only way of avoiding religious extremecy is a pseudo-democratic heretical tyranny… I’m quite confident that a strong, democratically elected leader with the will to ban non-democratic parties and work for equal rights and education for the populace will be able to sway the direction that egyptian society towards the better.

    EgyPeter: Hear hear!!!

  112. Sorry – that should have been “hereditary tyranny”…

  113. Abu Sa’ar @103 Hats off to u man. You have my same mindset; before the petro dollars of the 70′s Egypt was on the way to becoming a secular civilized society. Unfortunately, radical clerics started filling people’s minds with hate and intolerance.

  114. Adam B,

    Democracy is only as good as people’s need and support for it.

    Take Russians. They’d rather eat first. And I do not think they are an exception.

    I tend to agree with Boktor for the time being at very least.

  115. leo, Russia’s problem is the same as you see most places where democracy is implemented “too quickly”… People expect western style living in a few years tops, not realizing that it takes decades to adjust the economy, let alone the mindset!

    Egypt has had a head start though, as noted by Phara3on – it’s sad to see how things are slipping the wrong way… :(

    Still, I’m an optimist…! :)

  116. The Global Islamic population is approximately 1,200,000,000 or 20% of the world’s population.

    They have received the following Nobel Prizes:

    Literature:
    1988 – Najib Mahfooz

    Peace:
    1978 – Mohamed Anwar El-Sadat
    1994 – Yaser Arafat:
    1990 – Elias James Corey
    1999 – Ahmed Zewai

    Economics: (zero)

    Physics: (zero)

    Medicine:
    1960 – Peter Brian Medawar
    1998 – Ferid Mourad

    TOTAL: SEVEN

    The Global Jewish population is approximately 14,000,000,or about 0.02% of the world’s population.

    They have received the following Nobel Prizes:

    Literature:
    1910 – Paul Heyse
    1927 – Henri Bergson
    1958 – Boris Pa sternak
    1966 – Shmuel Yosef Agnon
    1966 – Nelly Sachs
    1976 – Saul Bellow
    1978 – Isaac Bashevis Singer
    1981 – Elias Canetti
    1987 – Joseph Brodsky
    1991 – Nadine Gordimer World

    Peace:
    1911 – Alfred Fried
    1911 – Tobias Michael Carel Asser
    1968 – Rene Cassin
    1973 – Henry Kissinger
    1978 – Menachem Begin
    1986 – Elie Wiesel
    1994 – Shimon Peres
    1994 – Yitzhak Rabin

    Physics:
    1905 – Adolph Von Baeyer
    1906 – Henri Moissan
    1907 – Albert Abraham Michelson
    1908 – Gabriel Lippmann
    1910 – Otto Wallach
    1915 – Richard Willstaetter
    1918 – Fritz Haber
    1921 – Albert Einstein
    1922 – Niels Bohr
    1925 – James Franck
    1925 – Gustav Hertz
    1943 – Gustav Stern
    1943 – George Charles de Hevesy
    1944 – Isidor Issac Rabi
    1952 – Felix Bloch
    1954 – Max Born
    1958 – Igor Tamm
    1959 – Emilio Segre
    1960 – Donald A. Glaser
    1961 – Robert Hofstadter
    1961 – Melvin Calvin
    1962 – Lev Dav idovich Landau
    1962 – Max Ferdinand Perutz
    1965 – Richard Phil lips Feynman
    1965 – Julian Schwinger
    1969 – Murray Gell-Mann
    1971 – Dennis Gabor
    1972 – William Howard Stein
    1973 – Brian David Joseph son
    1975 – Benjamin Mottleson
    1976 – Burton Richter
    1977 – Ilya Prigogine
    1978 – Arno Allan Penzias
    1978 – Peter L Kapitza
    1979 – Stephen Weinberg
    1979 – Sheldon Glashow
    1979 – Herbert Charles Brown
    1980 – Paul Berg
    1980 – Walter Gilbert
    1981 – Roald Hoffmann
    1982 – Aaron Klug
    1985 – Albert A. Hauptman
    1985 – Jerome Karle
    1986 – Dudley R. Herschbach
    1988 – Robert Huber
    1988 – Leon Lederman
    1988 – Melvin Schwartz
    1988 – Jack Steinberger
    1989 – Sidney Altman
    1990 – Jerome Friedman
    1992 – Rudolph Marcus
    1995 – Martin Perl
    2000 – Alan J. Heeger

    Economics:
    1970 – Pa ul Anthony Samuelson
    1971 – Simon Kuznets
    1972 – Kenneth Joseph Arrow
    1975 – Leonid Kantorovich
    1976 – Mil ton Friedman
    1978 – Herb ert A. Simon
    1980 – Lawrence Robert Klein
    1985 – Franco Modigliani
    1987 – Robert M. Solow
    1990 – Harry Markowitz
    1 990 – Merton Miller
    1992 – Gary Becker
    1993 – Robert Fogel

    Medicine:
    1908 – Elie Metchnikoff
    1908 – Paul Erlich
    1914 – Robert Barany
    1922 – Otto Meyerhof
    1930 – Karl Landsteiner
    1931 – Otto Warburg
    1936 – Otto Loewi
    1944 – Joseph Erlanger
    1944 – Herb ert Spencer Gasser
    1945 – Ernst Boris Chain
    1946 – Hermann Joseph Muller
    1950 – Tadeus Reichstein
    1952 – Selman Abra ham Waksman
    1953 – Hans Krebs
    1953 – Fritz Albert Lipmann
    1958 – Joshua Lederberg
    1959 – Arthur Kornberg
    1964 – Konrad Bloch
    1965 – Francois Jacob
    1965 – A ndre Lwoff
    1967 – George Wald
    1968 – Marshall W. Nirenberg
    1969 – Salvador Luria
    1970 – Julius Axelrod
    1970 – Sir Bernard Katz
    1972 – Gerald Maurice Ed elman
    1975 – Howard Martin Temin
    1976 – Baruch S. Blumberg
    1977 – Roselyn Sussman Yalow
    1978 – Daniel Nathans
    1980 – Baruj Benacerraf
    1984 – Cesar Milstein
    1985 – Michael Stuart Brown
    1985 – Joseph L. Goldstein
    1986 – Stanley Cohen [& Rita Levi-Montalcini]
    1988 – Gertrude Elion
    1989 – Harold Varmus
    1991 – Erwin Neher
    1991 – Bert Sakmann
    1993 – Richard J. Roberts
    1993 – Phillip Sharp
    1994 – Alfred Gilman
    1995 – Ed ward B. Lewis

    TOTAL: 129

    The Jews are NOT promoting brain washing children in military training camps, teaching them how to blow themselves up and cause maximum deaths of Jews and other non Muslims!

    The Jews don’t hijack planes, nor kill athletes at the Olympics, or blow themselves up in German restaurants. There is NOT one single Jew that has destroyed a church. There is NOT a single Jew that protests by killing people.

    The Jews don’t traffic slaves, nor have leaders calling for Jihad and death to all the Infidels.

    Perhaps the world’s Muslims should consider investing more in standard education and less in blaming the J ews for all their problems.

    Muslims must ask ‘what can they do for humankind’ before they demand that humankind respects them!!

    Regardless of your feelings about the crisis between Israel and the Palestinians and Arab neighbors, even if you believe there is more culpability on Israel ‘s part, the following two sentences really say it all:

    ‘If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel’ -Benjamin Netanyahu

  117. Diane, I hear what your saying, but unfortunately (though quite naturally!) all jews aren’t angels… This guy did precisely what you’re denying:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Goldstein

    This is a very important thing to realize: None of us are angels and none of us are demons. Some have become horribly twisted, like mr. Goldstein or Mr. Kuntar, but you’ll find these people in all cultures. What’s important is that we recognize these people; not as heroes to be emulated, but as examples of how our societies can twist us all and make monsters of ordinary people.

  118. In 1683 Muslim armies were ready to take Vienna and they were “rejected”

    #23 If there is no evidence that Iran is involved then Saudi Arabia is giving Hamas money. So be it.

    Deterrence was achieved in the north and now in the south.

    #22: Hamas was democratically elected and sealed the Palestinian fate. They consolidated there power in a bloody internecine fight with Fatah. And the loosers: Gaza inhabitants.

    #25: EVERYBODY HERE KNOWS that rockets were being fired from hospitals as well as from UN buildings. Hamas always hid behind civilians. “……Somebody wrote: Carnage is very bad PR.
    Hamas doesn’t wear uniforms, not even theyr green headbands when they fight, Why? Because they like to hide behind civilians………..

    And so on, son on

    All we accomplished is more death and more destruction.

    I will repeat something else: As long as the Arab countries continue to incite against non-Muslims from their mosques, their schools, etc. there is not going to be peace.

    Resistance should be replaced with COEXISTENCE.

    So, Nour, Sand Ape, etc.,etc start thinking about ways of coexisting or we will have more wars, more destruction, more hatred, more insults, more name calling……………Pathetic………………….Sad.

    By the way I am pro Israel.

  119. Diana, well, it’s hard to make comparisons. And I do agree that it is true that the Jewish people value intellectual pursuits, and it is also true though that Arabs have a rich cultural heritage and traditions, and that there are brilliant Arab thinkers today and through the ages.
    I think that your last sentence is about right though. There are many conflicts in the Middle East and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict gets a disproportionate amount of attention. There is regrettably a violent and bitter conflict between Fatah and Hamas, and the Lebanese are struggling with internal conflict and interference from the outside (Syria and Iran).

  120. Craig, now you have done it, i have incited you to use my language, as you have called me a latent homosexual ever since I brought the subject up that you were.

    Dude, you were the one who posted your fantasies about having sex with me, and then claimed not to be gay. Don’t make me go find those and repost them… I was embarrassed enough on your behalf the first time :o

  121. Adam B. only you would grace Sand Ape with a response :)

    I agree that we can and should have a dialogue, but if the starting premise of this dialogue is a denial of the historical Jewish claim to the Land of Israel, then it is a non-starter.

  122. Leo, was that a reference to “it” that I saw up there? I think you’re right. And after this massive meltdown, I think it will be back under a new name in a while. It has to wait long enough that it isn’t too obvious, though. Unless it has already started commenting under a different handle… but I don’t get the impression it thinks that far ahead.

  123. to #115 : I know I am not an angel and I would like to think that I am on the side of the angels that want this Earth to be a better place for us to live.
    We put in place poor leaders and the plain people pay the consecuences. The pox with the leaders………
    We, the people, have to learn to talk amongst ourselves and conduct civil discourse…………….if you all’know what I mean………….it’s the only way to learn how to get along.
    Now, I will repeat the following, hoping to turn it into a “mantra” : The Arab countries have to stop inciting against non-Muslims from their mosques, educational system, etc.
    It’s not resistance. It’s COEXISTENCE.
    SHALOM and SALAM

  124. Craig, you are correct.

    Even though I’ve seen this kid for quite some time I hoped s/he decided to change.

    Apparently I was wrong.

    I do not think we should waste our time talking about ‘it’.

  125. Leo,

    I don’t know Mohamed or Sand Ape. Don’t let him drag you into the Twosret Mania.

    As for the joke, It was spontaneous lol and I’m actually shy to explain it

  126. Twosret, you needn’t worry. I am big boy now.

    As for the joke, It was spontaneous lol and I’m actually shy to explain it

    OK.

  127. “See you all when negotiations break down again?”

    I give them a week to get food and supplies and then Hamas starts firing missiles.

  128. lynne: I know the history of Palestine and Israel, I grew up with it and I have gone back to it to use it as a reference many times. But, I think the past is the past. If you look at the history you will come to the obvious conclusion that they did the Palestinians wrong, and they had done it with Britain at first and then the US later. Everything was planned and accounted for. The Zionists had promised the Jews before Israel was established that they had nothing to fear from the weak Arabs, and to keep moving in to their “promised land”. If you think Hamas are crazy fundamentalists, you should see the Zionist’s ideology.
    I don’t really blame them, if I was a sophisticated European Jew who was way ahead of the Arabs, I wouldn’t look at them twice either. Fuck them, their all farmers and sheep herders anyway.
    What bugs me is that they are illegitimate owners of the land and act like the Palestinians are foreigners! How can you not allow Palestinians to roam around freely in their own country? Then put them in outdoor prisons and wonder why you keep getting resistance?
    If you give people nothing to live for and everything to die for, you will get madness like what we have been seeing. One would think that if Israel was going to take Palestinian land, they would at least do something for them afterwards in an attempt to make up for it.
    What has Israel ever done for the Palestinians? If they cared so much for peace and thats all they ever wanted, how have they shown it?
    They have shown it by death tolls that turned tragedies into statistics.
    The truth is Israel only cares for its own survival, and its survival comes at the expense of Palestinians.

  129. Andrew Brehm: Stop with the Jewish biblical talk. It is not up for debate whether Palestine has existed or not.
    Diane: The Jews are way ahead of everybody, I respect them, and most Palestinians realize how much they have achieved. For Zionists, it explains their arrogance.
    “I followed your comments dude…Though obviously intelligent…you are why to grandiose and paranoid in your thinking…and your analysis borders on the bizarre at times…

    And this is why there will probably never be peace. You note it yourself in your comments…because folks like yourself will only blame and follow this conspiritorial and just whacked out way of thinking about Jews and Israelis. You just could not be more wrong.”

    I hate conspiracy theories, but I just don’t believe in accidents or coincidences. The fact is the Americans and Israelis want to keep the Arabs in their place, and they will not tolerate any military resistance to their hold over the area. Who do you think keeps these Arabic dictatorships so strong to the point where it seems like the leadership will never change? The people? No, its America. America backs Mubaraks government. America backs Qazzafi’s government. America backs the Jordanian government. America backs the Saudi government. America even backs the Syrian government. Why would America back such corrupt dictatorships if their so noble and strong on democracy? Because America can stay in control of them thats why.
    Its all about control, control makes politicians feel safe.

  130. And when I say Israel dominates that region, I say that because Israel and America are glued at the hip, and work together at all times. Even the new President Obama, who I had so much hope for, destroyed me. He is siding with Israel 150% without a look in the Arab direction, but I don’t blame him. I thought to myself, who paid for his campaign? The businesses. And who owns a whole lot of business? The Jews.
    The truth is Diane is right. The Jews have a lot more influence. Look at all these big business supporting and funding Israel. I mean, I have to boycott Starbucks and Mcdonalds! Is that a coincidence? Are they supporting because they believe Israel is in jeopardy?

    It is not a conspiracy theory to state the fact that the Jewish lobby in America is very powerful, and they are Zionists. I am a young Arab Canadian, and I know how foolish the conspiracy theories can sound from this older Arab generation, but I found out that their conspiracy theories are just over exaggerated truths.

  131. The fact is the Americans and Israelis want to keep the Arabs in their place, and they will not tolerate any military resistance to their hold over the area.

    Nour, even you, who says some very sensible things… you fall back into these nutty conspiracy theories… there’s simply no way to deal with that. That ends any rational discussion that people try to engage in.

    Military resistance, though? Is the US at war with Arabs? You say “resistance” as if you have some kind of right to attack the US and US interests? You are damn right we won’t tolerate any kind of military action against us… that’s called “war”.

    Who do you think keeps these Arabic dictatorships so strong to the point where it seems like the leadership will never change?

    I think Arabs do. Who kept Qaddafi in power in Libya, all those years when the whole world was sanctioning Libya? The US? :o

    Who kept Assad in power all those years in Syria? The US? really?

    How about Saddam? You honestly believe the US was pro-Saddam, at *any* point in time other than a few years during the 1980s?

    You just described why the middle-east is so fucked up, and will remain so forever, until Arabs change their own societies. You just can’t resist the temptation to blame everything bad that ever happens on outsiders. It isn’t our fault. It is your fault.

  132. LOVELY — I can see the fanatic Jewish Zionists and their supporters are in an uproar over Sand Ape — just Lovely!!

    Wishing Saudi Arabia will run out of Oil, LMAO!

    Obviously it is the dumber Jews that grace my countrymans blog, I thought Jews were intellects. Don’t you dumb asses know that Saudi Arabia already has a 12% stake in the American economy? That is more than China you retards. And still they have proven Oil reserves to last another 100 years. By then they will own even your big Mamma’s house :)

    i aint even mentioning Kuwait or UAE yet, either!

    Mwha ha ha, you guys are really intellectually dull, even compared to a pissed off Arab that can’t control his anger at you imbeciles for killing so many innocent babies, who have the audacity to wipe your asses and enter peo9ples homes as IDF soldiers, ransacking, killing, stealing woman and kids Gold. No wonder you guys love the name Goldman haha. Then using the excuse, if we didnt take the gold, it will go to the terrorists. Israeli Jews are misinformed and corrupted stingy vermin.

    End of that Story!

    Adam – the usual scummy intolerant twisting of the truth and taking my words out of context..

    How can I respect a biased and pissed off moron like yourself Adam, you belong on the top of the list of lying Jews even though you aint Jewish. How can I have patience to keep on repeating myself endlessly to your biased lying ass? I would be a fool. So therefore I instead, resort to calling you and the others here, life pieces of shit as you already know you are or why else would you and the Zionists not have anything better to do than come and drivel here?

    Abu sa’ar Abu Zift…You are a fucking Jew, so please shut the fuck up, who are you to speak of blood lust you taker of innocent lives. You throw around Samir Kuntar’s name as if he is any worse than your ancestors you ignoramus, so please shut the hell up already, thank you!

    OMG, a diana’s statement:

    “There is NOT a single Jew that protests by killing people.”

    You fucking ugly whore, your ROTTING CUNT IS STARTING TO SMELL…where do you get this menses of filth from, could it be from your rotting insides and affinity to wanna believe your own drivel ?!

    damn lying cunts DO SMELL!

  133. I admitted from the beginning we have faults and a lot of changing to do to overcome. But its you that wont admit your country’s aggressive hold over the area, and its double standards. The US PUSHED Saddam into war with Iran. Assad plays both sides of the rope, on one side he pleases the Arab street, on the other side he pleases the Americans. But at the end of the day, hes just looking to maintain power, and that won’t happen without the American support.
    How do you think Qaddafi gets rich? Who do you think he sells the oil to? Qaddafi shut down his nuclear program for the US, and the US called him “a role model for Iran”. Qaddafi continues to sell oil to the US. He is a hypocrite gangster. Why did you not mention Jordan? And Saudi Arabia, the wahhabi state? Aren’t wahhabis terrorists or something?

  134. US’s foreign policy for the middle east is summed up by one word: control. Not peace.

  135. Nour buddy, you will run out of steam on these bastards. You are not allowed to mention the lobby, there is a Craigs List of retorts they are allowed to use to neutralize you. i reached exactly the sme spot with them where you have reached now and then when all was dandy, i merely said The Israel Lobby and I was accused of being Samir Kuntar!

    Its futile dude. I know we both aint religious and all but the Bible and The Quran damn the Jew’s. Even agnostics know that Jews are a very sticky subject. They want to discredit anyone who dares stand up to them.

    You are absolutely right, but you will be urinated on in a second by them while they smile. then you will undoubtedly leave here. But not me, no way. I stick around and stick it to them.

  136. I think just the fact that Abu Sa’ar admitted that detterence is important and that there will be many more operations makes me respect him. At least he is truthful and understands its not about butterflies and olive trees.
    Israel did not achieve its goal that it puts on CNN, which is to “defeat” Hamas. How are they going to defeat Hamas by bombing Gaza? They knew that won’t work because they tried it already in Lebanon, and many a times in Palestine before that. However, they achieved their real goal, which was deterrence.

  137. Nour, thank you for your response. I very much value your information and your opinions. I read over at Good Neighbors, and I do so in order to get a better perspective of matters though discussion with others. I studied political sociology, which made me a nervous wreck, and it is a fact that groups tend to stick together, but most particularly so when there are outside threats. Not so much so when those threats are removed. Make sense? That applies to the Jews and the Palestinians. In our sticking together though, it is important to maintain a sense of justice, and that is just what we human beings have such a hard time doing, isn’t it?
    I boycott Starbucks and McDonald’s, too, but because I hate the products. I take the opposite approach though when I visit Israel. I seek out the Arab-Israeli vendors and shop owners. I always go to Abu Gosh (did I misspell that ?) for hummus—to offer my support to those people most particularly.
    There are a good many Jewish businesses and many Jews are excellent businessmen. Not me, though. Most businesses are not owned by Jews though. More are owned by people from other groups.
    Anyway, Nour, you have given me things to think about, and I appreciate that. Visit GNblog, if you get a chance. It would be good to get your perspective on matters.

  138. Nour,

    But its you that wont admit your country’s aggressive hold over the area, and its double standards.

    I’m not sure what you mean by “double standards” – as far as I know, the only standard the US State Department has is to promote US interests abroad. Can you clarify for me what you mean?

    The US PUSHED Saddam into war with Iran….

    Now, that’s simply untrue. Saddam was spoiling for war with Iran since the 1970s. Iran was an ally of the US at the time, and so he kept himself in check. Khomeini’s takeover of Iran and the chaos that followed gave Saddam what must have seemed like a perfect opportunity. And, he didn’t miss it.

    This isn’t a matter of opinion, by the way. It’s quite well documented, and not just by Americans historians :)

    I will admit that it’s quite unlikely anyone in the US Government tried to dissuade Saddam. Iran was still holding the staff of the US embassy in Tehran hostage when that war started.

    Assad plays both sides of the rope, on one side he pleases the Arab street, on the other side he pleases the Americans.

    Assad doesn’t “please” Americans. The other side of that rope is Iran.

    But at the end of the day, hes just looking to maintain power, and that won’t happen without the American support.

    Really? And what support do you think the US gives him? We view Syria as an Iranian proxy in the region. Do you think the US also supports the Iranian regime?

    How do you think Qaddafi gets rich? Who do you think he sells the oil to?

    I think he sells most of it to the Europeans. Who do you think he sells it to? As far as I know, there aren’t even any American oil companies doing business in Libya, and there haven’t been in decades. I think the US is currently trying to negotiate some oil contracts.

    Qaddafi shut down his nuclear program for the US

    He shut it down after the invasion of Iraq. Why do you think he did that? Is it because the US asked him nicely, or because he was worried he might be next?

    and the US called him “a role model for Iran”.

    Q complied with every demand that was made of him, in order to get his country off the “black list”. What do you think we should have called him, after he did everything that was asked of him? This is one thing I don’t understand… people always insists the US put pressure on rogue governments to improve their behavior, and when that happens, they jump up and down screaming and yelling about why we are making good on the promises we made. Do you really think it would be wise to continue hitting people with the stick, after they have accepted the carrot?

    Qaddafi continues to sell oil to the US.

    Can you give me a link for that? I’m honestly curious.

    He is a hypocrite gangster.

    Agreed. Do you want the US to invade, and get rid of him? We’ve done all we are capable of doing, diplomatically, so what else should we do?

    Why did you not mention Jordan?

    Jordan is a catastrophe waiting to happen. It seems like it should be a no-brainer, why the US supports the Jordanian government. If I really have to try to explain it, I’ll give it a shot :)

    And Saudi Arabia, the wahhabi state? Aren’t wahhabis terrorists or something?

    The US wrote off Saudi Arabia as a lost cause, long ago. There is nothing we can do there, so we maintain the best relationship with them that we can.

    US’s foreign policy for the middle east is summed up by one word: control. Not peace.

    I partially agree with that. Although, I think the US wants both. War is not good for business. And if it wasn’t for the oil, I doubt the US would have any more interest in what goes on in the ME than it does in other regions. Less, in fact, since the ME seems to have a lot more chronic and seemingly unsolvable problems than other places do. The US could conceivable do things in sub-Saharan Africa that would greatly improve the situation there, for instance. It’s a lot easier to sell an intervention or a nation-building project when you can make a reasonable argument that it is likely to succeed.

  139. Sand Ape,

    After three and a half years on SM. I would say, focus more on the topic rather than the people here, don’t take it personal, discuss your ideas and what you think even if people attack you personally.

    Good luck!

  140. Yes Towsret, and a true intellect will find the root cause of the of problem and then tackle it. That problem happens to be the personal belief system and level of ethics that these low calibre people called Zionists display. The ones who believe in occupation of Palestine. They have no case what-so-ever under International law and because of that, they do everything in their power to defame and try and discredit us.

    God created balance in the world and for every seething advocate of Zionist murder, there is an anecdote. Its called resistance, the body fighting off a disease that is trying to take over its body! You want me to politely debate with the intruding virus, huh!?

  141. God created balance in the world and for every seething advocate of Zionist murder, there is an anecdote.

    Bush has the same problem when he tries to use big words.

  142. Sand Ape you are relentless ,calm down man. I remember that you mentioned living in the US. If you hate this country so much why dont you get the hell out and live under your opressive Leaders in a futureless war torn asshole of a region called the Middleeast.

  143. Craig: The US supported and supplied Iraq with ammunition for the entire Iran-Iraq war. That has also been documented.
    Have you ever watched an Assad interview? He is completely different on camera to the west than when he talks to the Syrian people. On national Syrian stations (which he runs), Israel is referred to as “the enemy”, and is not in any map in Syria. Thats not what he says in interviews.
    Satisfying the US demand is against the benefit of any ME country’s demand. Every country wishes to have Nuclear Power, not just for bombs, but for energy. When you actually start this project and you give that up because of pressure from the US, then you have just bent over. The US wants to remain in control of the ME to ensure its interests there are met.
    Qaddafi link: http://worldmeets.us/novosti000060.shtml
    “And if it wasn’t for the oil, I doubt the US would have any more interest in what goes on in the ME than it does in other regions”
    I agree with you 100%, but you have to understand that they are set in terms of oil. They don’t need to stick around for oil because they have their bitch Saudi Arabia who is not written off as a “lost cause”, Saudi Arabia is an official ally of the United States.
    Craig, the bottom line is they stick around because Israel is their number one priority in the ME. Not peace, not oil, not wars on terror, not WMDs, none of that.

  144. Nour

    .You wrote that Hamas are sunni muslims and they do not share the ideology of Hezbollah and Iran which are shia muslims. That may be so but then why are they getting 15 to 30 mln dollars a year in help from Iran? Hamas, I am sure you know, stopped getting money from Saudis after a coup d’etat in Gaza. Hamas people are training in Bekka Valley and in syria and Pasdaran is helping them with munitions. I know that religious differences are important, as Qaradawi said, but the common enemy is still more important that minor teological differences.

    NObody wants to” keep arabs in their place”, that is something which you yourself quite well described as conspiracy theory. Particularly your statement that “America even backs the Syrian government.” when in fact i t is not america who backs Assad government but Iran. And in answer to your question
    “Why would America back such corrupt dictatorships if their so noble and strong on democracy? ”
    the answer is simple, if america would try to push democracy in ME you would say
    “america is again showing their arrogance trying to push dimokracy in muslim countries. dimokracy is western invention not compatible with muslim faith. We don’t want dimokracy because the west want to force democracy up our throat and it is western invention by use of which amerika wants to control how we think and live. We do not want that.”
    So, if west do not push democracy on ME countries the west want to control ME, if west do push democracy it is arrogant and wants to control ME.

    You said you are young Arab Canadian, it may be so. You also said that your parents generation had their conspiracy theories but it seems to me that you are no better then they were because you have your own brand new conspiracy theories.

  145. Nour

    Iraq was supported by Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt and Gulf States as well as by Germany and other countries during Iran-Iraq war.
    China supported Iran.
    Saudi Arabia supported Iraq because IRI revolutionary guard wanted a coup in Saudi, revolutionary change of government, something like sayyed Khomeini did in Iran. They also looked at what happened with Tudeh and said to themselves – we will support Iraq.
    And do you know why iraq was supported by US (and not by munition as you said but by satelite info), because Iran attacked American embassy in Tehran and call it a nest of spies. If you attack embassy of any country and keep their people imprisoned you have to be prepared that the attacked country will not help you during any war, quite opposite in fact.

  146. Nour, I agree that governments often make bad decisions and that their actions are governed by self-interest. Even so, what is to keep ordinary citizens like those of us who comment here from trying to understand each other better, trying to think of compromises, and advocating for the well-being of each other? It may be all we can do really.
    As much as I do respect Ella, I disagree with her assessment that “you are no better than (your parents)…” I appreciate your willingness to discuss matters and your honesty. I hope that you will not get too discouraged by the debate here, and that you will keep commenting. This conflict is absolutely a torment for so many of us, near and far removed. At times, I can barely sleep thinking of it (Saturday night I could not sleep!). Given the intense feelings that many of us have, emotions are raw and nerves are on edge.

  147. Eva, Canada says:

    Sand Ape said …the pro Israeli Arabs will cut the throats of unborn Israelis in their mothers wombs and the rest will God willing kill the KG pupils who will undoubtedly grow up to be IDF reservist’s…

    Perhaps I was wrong. As a result of your speech, Sand Ape, I’m beginning to think that shooting Palestinians like fish in a barrel might be the right thing to do.

  148. Nour, that Russian article about Libya is highly misleading, and factually inaccurate. It contains just enough truth to make it seem plausible. I didn’t see anything in it about Libyan oil sales to the US, either, which is what we were disputing :)

  149. Eva, Sand Ape has some serious mental problems. He says the things he says only because he wants to make people hate each-other. I advise you not pay much attention to him… he’s just a malicious clown. He doesn’t give a damn about anyone, including his own people.

  150. Nour,

    Do you see what I mean Now!?

    You are dancing with the devil by debating these prime rib, creme of the crop, morally inferior Zionist vermin.

    They are born liars.

    The concept of truth is something that they just can not grasp.

    As you have witnessed,

    They fail to admit that we Arabs have all the oil, and if we shut it off, then America will suffer and its security will be compromised. So as much as it makes sense that America does not let anyone meddle with its national security, they keep us Arabs in place — just as you said — in order to control the oil because America can’t handle another Oil embargo like in the 70′s.

    Yet all you here from these Warsaw ghetto descendants is the echo of crackling bones and the sound of lies seething from their marrow. They are on a mission dude!

    Craig summed it up just dandy. They are emotionally disturbed fungi that shouldn’t be taken seriously under any circumstances.

    I used to be pro Israeli when it got me what I wanted, but quickly realized that I was sucking the devils dick, just like the likes of Craig, Adam and other brain washed casualties of selective breeding — by believing Israel is even a legitimate nation — so I decided to get off the pipe!

    I feel like a general every time I through salt in their Game!

  151. Don’t try to lump all Arabs in with you, scumbag.

  152. Abu Sa'ar says:

    Nour – of course deterrence is important. It is a natural and essential strategy for any state surrounded by genocidal enemies.

    You are wrong about pretty much everything else, however. Partially through oversimplification: Israel’s goals in Operation Cast Lead were numerous; the reasons for the operation were doubly so. First among these was the need to stop rocket fire on Israel.

  153. I must be kind of a masochist, but I really enjoy Sand Ape’s rants… :D They’re so nonsensical, it’s just plain ol’ fun to point out every inconsistency in his posts! I’ll take the bait again…

    128: Skiping the aimless rant of the first two paragraphs:

    “Adam – the usual scummy intolerant twisting of the truth and taking my words out of context..”

    You’re the one trying to place your own comments out of context – Don’t worry, I get it… You have a compulsion to use whatever “truth” suits your immediate argument, lie about it afterwards, and turn to mindless ranting when someone points out your strategy. It’s ok, I’m sure you can’t help it…

    “How can I respect a biased and pissed off moron like yourself Adam”

    I’m not pissed off… Biased? I prefer the term “informed”. :)

    “How can I have patience to keep on repeating myself endlessly”

    Face it – it’s what you do… It’s a petty excuse for an argument.

    “and the Zionists not have anything better to do than come and drivel here?”

    Obviously along with a few raving islamist lunatics… :D

    As for your closing statement to Diana… Oh my – meltdown again!

    145:

    “They are born liars.”

    You’re a zionist? I mean, you’re the only one who has been caught in an outright admitance to a lie here…

  154. 137. Craig:

    “Bush has the same problem when he tries to use big words.”

    Lol! :D Craig, don’t annoy him -I wanna hear that anecdote he’s hinting to…!

    138. Nour:

    “He is completely different on camera to the west than when he talks to the Syrian people. On national Syrian stations (which he runs), Israel is referred to as “the enemy”, and is not in any map in Syria. Thats not what he says in interviews.”

    That can hardly be the fault of the Us or the EU – rather it’s Assad realizing that he can’t afford to (officially) look like an enemy of the west… And of course our media is lapping it up, with no hint of what he’s saying to his own people, sigh…

    “Satisfying the US demand is against the benefit of any ME country’s demand. Every country wishes to have Nuclear Power, not just for bombs, but for energy. When you actually start this project and you give that up because of pressure from the US, then you have just bent over.”

    Why is nuclear power so neccesary? I can get around the fact that nuclear power is much more environmentally sane than burning coal (odd that this argument never caught on in the 60′s and 70′s?) but there are alternatives like wind power, wave power, sun power (should be good for you guys!), etc. Nuclear plants in a highly volatile region is NOT a good idea from an anti-terrorist viewpoint, but also because there’s such a short step from just producing energy to manufacturing nuclear weapons.

  155. Analogy Time:

    Zionists are to genocidal racist maniacs — AS — Skin Heads are to genocidal racist maniacs!

    Craig, take a Valium, you sound upset by my words! (Excellent)

    Adam, callous as ever ! (A+)

  156. Nour,

    As you have witnessed,

    They fail to admit that we Arabs have all the oil, and if we shut it off, then America will suffer and its security will be compromised. So as much as it makes sense that America does not let anyone meddle with its national security, they keep us Arabs in place — just as you said — in order to control the oil because America can’t handle another Oil embargo like in the 70’s.

    Yet all you hear is that you must be under the ignorant spell of conspiracy theories. Are you really that gullible to try and moderate debate between a people so prone to lying? If so that is your choice — and really — good luck pal!

    Craig summed it up just dandy. They are emotionally disturbed fungi that shouldn’t be taken seriously under any circumstances.

  157. Never mind all the dead bodies of Palestinian kids riddled with bullets that are all over the web and the Anglo-sphere. Hitting the UN 5 times and a continued get out of jail free card for Mayhem, Ethnic Cleansing and Genocide!

  158. “They fail to admit that we Arabs have all the oil”

    Is there anything to “admit”…?

    “if we shut it off, then America will suffer”

    It works both ways, you know… The west will suffer because oil-prices would skyrocket (remember, we have oil ourselves…) but much of the ME would lose it’s income. How will you afford your guns, then…? ;)

  159. i luv egypt says:

    Watch what a Holocusr Jewish survivor UK MP got to say about Israel.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMGuYjt6CP8

    Here is what a Rabbi thinks about Israel.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RjnvQHWyLE

  160. Look at Sand Ape, pretending to be all shook up about tragedies in Gaza. It might almost be believable, if it wasn’t for all the hate-mongering and boasting he’s been doing here.

    Adam, why doesn’t the European press publish articles like these:

    http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/01/200912064121600602.html

    The use of white phosphorus is not prohibited under international law, but the indiscriminate use of any weapon in an area crowded with civilians could be used as the basis to make war crimes charges, legal experts have said.

    An honest statement of fact about what international law says on the matter. Why isn’t the BBC as honest as Al Jazeera is? Isn’t that embarrassing?

    Ant this opinion piece here:

    http://english.aljazeera.net/focus/war_on_gaza/2009/01/2009119102548942367.html

    That’s about the most objective presentation of the history of the conflict as I’ve ever seen. Why is it in Al Jazeera, and not in the BBC? Why do British bastards need to be lied to all the time?

    I’ve read about a dozen stories on Al Jazeera English’s front page in the last couple hours, and I gotta say they’ve come a long way in the last few years. My only question is if they report the same stories in Arabic.

  161. i luv egypt:

    The PM is entitled to his opinion – I disagree with him.

    The Rabbi is obviously a nutter, lost in religious babble and cannot be taken seriously.

    Craig, they do – people just disagree with the use of the stuff. They think it should be banned completely, and international law changed.

  162. Craig, they do

    Adam, that’s not true when it comes to the BBC. The BBC has published outright lies about WP on dozens of occasions, going all the way back to Falluja in 2004. They accused the US of using banned chemical weapons on that occasion. They take unethical journalism to a whole new level, if we don’t count France which of course, nobody does.

    people just disagree with the use of the stuff.

    people just disagree with the use of the stuff.

    Adam, every military force that has fought a battle in the last 80 years has used white phosphorous extensively. It’s the most effective and common smoke munition there is.

    They think it should be banned completely, and international law changed.

    It’s not banned at all, and it never will be. They may as well try to ban bullets, which I’m sure a lot of Western Europeans would love to do, but it just ain’t gonna happen :)

    The Al Jazeera article stated it correctly. The crime would be in the indiscriminate use against civilians. That’s the proper way to prosecute, if that did in fact happen.

  163. Roman Kalik says:

    I luv Egypt, Adam B,

    Yisroel Dovid Weiss is a member of Neturei Karta’s radical branch – they’re the same guys who received funds from Arafat back in the day, who also attended his funeral, and were the ones who went to Tehran to attend the Tehran Holocaust Conference, where they sat side by side with prominent holocaust deniers from across the world, and just plain old racists like David Duke. They’re now bestest friends with Ahmadinejad, by the way.

    And after the attacks and bombings in Mumbai in November 2008, where the local Chabad center (Nariman House) was attacked by Pakistani Islamist terrorists who then murdered the Jewish couple running it and the guests staying there, these same people issued a statement that it was due to their “impure association with Zionists”.

    They’re so lost in their fanatical hatred that they gloat when Jews die, as long as said Jews don’t think like them. Which is what led the vast majority of ultra-Orthodox Jewish rabbis to call for a ‘herem’ against them – which is basically Jewish excommunication.

    The only point in their favor is that they don’t go around blowing up people.

  164. Adam your comment 158, must be the most infantile response yet, and the best proof that you are all washed up, even with your excellent wallet analogy that nobody understood but me :)

  165. Craig, that may be so – I haven’t been monitoring the BBC all that much lately. The media I have frequented have been noting that white phosphorous is a legal substance, but that, instead of being used in it’s capacity to build a smoke screen, it’s instead being used (illegally, as far as I remember – those Vienna Conventions again… ;) ) directly against people, including civilians, with effects similar to those of napalm. This is hard to prove, and therefore many people would like to completely ban the substance due to it’s horrid effects on people if used wrongly – I can’t see any problem in that. What’s your reason for disagreeing?

  166. Sand Ape, how so…? Would you mind trying to explain yourself for a change?

  167. 165 – My bad, the Geneva Conventions (incendiary and chemical weapon)…

  168. Nothing, just that you have some incredibly bad points as you have some really good ones, just like a lot of the posters here.

    The wallet analogy was probably one of the best analogies I have read on here, but if I complimented you on it, it would do more damage to your cause than good as you already had the relentless Craig on your tail in a dog fight (if I am not mistaken).
    I mean since I am always to be discredited — that’s how it works round here — because I dont subscribe to Israeli ethics one bit and hate the lying PR machine. Plus another good point abu Sa’ar Abu Zift made is that they are are a borderline/severely traumatized people who have witnessed a genocide in recent history = giving guns to maniacs!

  169. Oh joy, LOOK, Craig now subscribes to Al Jazeera’s views on a few issues. Is that a case of fanatical hypocrism or am I just still a dumb ass!?

  170. The media I have frequented have been noting that white phosphorous is a legal substance, but that, instead of being used in it’s capacity to build a smoke screen, it’s instead being used (illegally, as far as I remember – those Vienna Conventions again… ;) ) directly against people

    WP is not illegal. It’s not banned. Ever. It’s simply not a banned weapon. Regardless of circumstances. Anyone who claims it is, or even implies that it is, is either deliberately lying, or is ignorant of the actual content of the treaties they are referencing. Sounds like the media you’ve been reading is as guilty of it as the BBC.

    with effects similar to those of napalm.

    Now, that’s just absurd. Anyone who compares a smoke munition to napalm, has obviously never seen a napalm strike.

    This is hard to prove, and therefore many people would like to completely ban the substance due to it’s horrid effects on people if used wrongly – I can’t see any problem in that.

    What is hard to prove? WP can’t be used “wrongly” per se. Any more than a rifle can be used wrongly. If I deliberately fire on civilians with white phosphorous rounds, I have committed a war crime. If I deliberately fire on civilians with a rifle, I have committed a war crime. In both cases, it is not the weapon that is banned, it is what I (the human being) have done with it.

    These weapons simply aren’t banned, which is why trying to claim that they are is dishonest.

    What’s your reason for disagreeing?

    With the intent to ban smoke munitions, Adam? Smoke munitions have been an integral and necessary part of ground combat operations for ~100 years. As I said earlier, you may as well try to ban bullets. Good luck with that :)

  171. Sand Ape – “or am I just still a dumb ass!?”
    Yes. Not only are you still a dumb ass – you’re still an irrational, bigoted, antisemitic, infantile Kuntar-wannabe whose sole saving grace seems to be the ability to rant in passable English.

    And that grace isn’t saving much.

    Moreover, you are, alas, quite a typical product of your culture (apart from being literate, of course). Thank you for reminding that to those of us who needed reminding.

  172. Craig.

    “With the intent to ban smoke munitions, Adam?”

    Smoke munitions with the potential to inflict severe burn damages that takes ages to heal properly, hence the refference to napalm – the effects are similar, if not proportional. WP produces horrendous and excessively painfull wounds, and this, it is argued, is illegal as per the Geneva convention. The problem lies in the use og WP – using it to build a smokescreen is perfectly legal; using it as a weapon directed against people (or at least civilians) is prohibited, due to the nature of the wounds. As I said, it’s hard to prove whether there was intent behind when people are injured by WP, so why not ban it altogether?

    I know you don’t agree with it, but that’s the argument, and I for one find it perfectly reasonable. It’s certainly not the same as banning bullets…

  173. Adam, to get back to my question: why does Al Jazeera seem to have better access to experts on international law than Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, and Western European Media? I have to think it’s deliberate, because Protocol III (incendiary weapons)of the Geneva Conventions is all over the internet, and the clause where it excludes smoke munitions such as WP from being considered incendiary weapons (and thus excludes them from being considered banned) is right at the top. And one doesn’t have to be an expert to understand the language being used – it is quite clear.

    So, what’s your take on that?

  174. That would be “intent”… :) That’s my guess, at least, and your guess as well. Amnetsy et al. have an agenda, and not bringing too many contradictory ideas/views/facts into the picture makes it easier to get your message through. I can agree to their goal (in this case) but not their means.

    A possibility (as to the general media) could be a cattering to the lowest denominator – they have to inform everyone so that they understand. That means that you can’t overcomplicate things. It would be sad, but it’s probably true. Plus, journalists aren’t exactly rocket-scientists… ;)

  175. WP produces horrendous and excessively painfull wounds, and this, it is argued, is illegal as per the Geneva convention.

    Who is arguing that, Adam? Who is putting forth that argument?

    (The “weapons of cruelty” clause is in the Hague Conventions, by the way)

    When did it become OK for people to charge war crimes, with no legal basis, just because they think something is “bad”?

    I’m still waiting for an explanation of why Al Jazeera has better legal scholars than Europeans. Is there a reason, other than bias? And how much does it suck that Al Jazeera is less biased against Israel than Europe?

    And lastly, when can we look forward to the BBC demanding that British troops be indicted for using WP in Afghanistan and Iraq? Why is it only American and Israeli troops who deserve to be defamed by the BBC?

  176. …well, I can’t really agree to their goal, actually, ’cause that’s to condemn war no matter what, and I happen to believe in the good war/bad war, good peace/bad peace concept. I can agree to try to minimize the pain and suffering caused by war!

  177. 175. Craig:

    “Who is arguing that, Adam? Who is putting forth that argument?”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus_use_in_Iraq

    Check under legality.

    “When did it become OK for people to charge war crimes”

    Well, it didn’t per se, but as long as people aren’t lawyers, I guess it’s considered excusable to use the term even though, as you say, they just feel that it’s bad…

    “I’m still waiting for an explanation of why Al Jazeera has better legal scholars than Europeans.”

    I couldn’t tell you… Experience? ;)

    “And lastly, when can we look forward to the BBC demanding that British troops be indicted for using WP in Afghanistan and Iraq?”

    I could imagine they’re already doing that – it just doesn’t make it to the world news frontpage…

  178. I didn’t really mean to put the screws to you, Adam, you’re just the only European around here at the moment :)

    I can agree to try to minimize the pain and suffering caused by war!

    I’m with you on that. But I don’t think the “Weapons of Cruelty” ban can be applied to WP. That clause has been used to ban expanding bullets, glass shrapnel and some other things like that… the key concept is “unnecessary suffering”. Smoke Munitions are not designed to cause any suffering at all, they are designed to produce smoke. The fact that phosphorous causes severe burns if you get it directly on you is a by-product of the way the smoke is produced. It seems to me that clause was intended to prevent the use of munitions that were intended to cause unnecessary suffering… by design. Deliberate cruelty. This is actually one of the most valid claims for a ban on WP – I just don’t think it will be found to be appropriate, either by the signatories of the Conventions, or by a court if a case is ever filed.

  179. The use of White Phosphorus as an obscurant is legal, however its use on personnel targets is banned by Article III of the Geneva Conventions as an incendiary weapon, and by Article II of the Geneva Conventions as a chemical weapon (lethal through dust inhalation and through the mechanism of absorption through contact burns) Neither the US nor Iraq are signatories to Article III. The United State is signatory to Article II.

    Wikipedia, lies again. What else is new? lol. They didn’t even get the terminology right… it’s Protocol III :D

    I think Wikipedia should be indicted for being full of shit. And probably for crimes against humanity, since so many people use it for a source.

    Protocol III (incendiary weapons) – check the exclusion, at the top. Article 1, section 1, subsection b. “b” is the subsection that says “incendiary weapons do not include:”

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/int/convention_conventional-wpns_prot-iii.htm

    Protocol II is on mines and booby traps, so I guess they just made that crap up. But nobody in their right mind would try to claim WP was a chemical weapon.

  180. Well, it didn’t per se, but as long as people aren’t lawyers, I guess it’s considered excusable to use the term even though, as you say, they just feel that it’s bad…

    It is “OK” to accuse people of having committed capital offenses, without any evidence, is it? Maybe in Europe :(

  181. Yeah, I ended up on Global Security as well, but they seemed as biased as any I’ve come across as well… ;)

  182. “It is “OK” to accuse people of having committed capital offenses, without any evidence, is it?”

    Depends on who is being accused and, more importantly, who’s doing the accusing… Let me put it this way: you’re free to say anything you want to, just expect to be charged with libel, if your “target” takes it seriously enough…!

  183. That’s the actual treaty text, but maybe you trust the UN more?

    http://www.unog.ch/80256EDD006B8954/(httpAssets)/B409BC0DCFA0171CC12571DE005BC1DD/$file/PROTOCOL+III.pdf

    Plenty more places that have the text of the Geneva Conventions, if you think the UN can’t be trusted :P

  184. “Protocol III (incendiary weapons) – check the exclusion, at the top. Article 1, section 1, subsection b. “b” is the subsection that says “incendiary weapons do not include:””

    I would say that depends on how the smoke munitions are used – if they’re used as weapons directed against adversaries, they’re illegal weapons, if they’re used to put up a smokescreen, they’re legal.

    Sort of like fertilizer… Illegal as a weapons component, legal for making crops grow. ;)

  185. “Plenty more places that have the text of the Geneva Conventions, if you think the UN can’t be trusted ”

    heh heh!

  186. I would say that depends on how the smoke munitions are used – if they’re used as weapons directed against adversaries, they’re illegal weapons, if they’re used to put up a smokescreen, they’re legal.

    That isn’t what the treaty says, Adam :P

    Bottom line, either the Geneva Conventions mean something, or they don’t. If the biggest champions of the Geneva Conventions don’t want to pay attention to what is actually written in them, then who will?

  187. “That isn’t what the treaty says, Adam”

    I’m not so sure… you’re looking at an inventory list of what are legal munitions categories are what aren’t – there’s no mention as to the use of said munitions in another role than the one mentioned, which would be the case if WP rounds were fired at people instead of at a general area.

    I’m no lawyer though, so I might be looking at it the wrong way. Certainly a lot of people are seeing it my way, though, so things may be changing… Time will tell.

  188. i luv egypt says:

    Man fuck this is going no where. I think the only solution for Israel is clear both palas and jews off da map. Or we can start a new page but pala gotta forget about their land and jews stop nagging about how Hitler fucked em over. After what happened in Gaza i dont think the next generation will ever like Israel now. I think before lebanon war youngsters were fed up with the same news and a lot of us young Arab saw peace as a solution and both parties ned to get over some serious shit. But 2006 and 2009 fucked up everything again and revived the hate. Israel is not smart. Imagine Israel was giving away free falafel to gaza and gave arabs good postion even if they dont deserve it. Its pretty hard for a country to survive between countries that want to abolish it. Israel; show us that you luv us not bomb us u dumb fucks.

  189. I’m not so sure… you’re looking at an inventory list of what are legal munitions categories are what aren’t – there’s no mention as to the use of said munitions in another role than the one mentioned, which would be the case if WP rounds were fired at people instead of at a general area.

    Sure there is:

    1. Incendiary weapon” means any weapon or munition which is primarily designed to set fire to objects or to cause burn injury to persons through the action of flame, heat, or combination thereof, produced by a chemical reaction of a substance delivered on the target. (a) Incendiary weapons can take the form of, for example, flame throwers, fougasses, shells, rockets, grenades, mines, bombs and other containers of incendiary substances.

    Smoke munitions are not PRIMARILY designed to be incendiary weapons. They are primarily designed to produce smoke. Hence:

    (b) Incendiary weapons do not include:

    (i) Munitions which may have incidental incendiary effects, such as illuminants, tracers, smoke or signalling systems;

    The incendiary effects of smoke rounds are incidental.

    That is a double exclusion, Adam. They added the specific exclusion in subsection b just to make absolutely certain that nobody would try to reclassify smoke munitions as incendiary weapons. To try to do that, anyway, is a violation of both the letter and the spirit of this treaty.

    By the way, I don’t think false accusations of war crimes should be taken so lightly. When the BBC spent two weeks claiming the US had used chemical weapons against Iraqis at Falluja (talking about WP) it is pretty certain people died because of that. They were just throwing fuel onto the fire for all those foreign fighters who only needed one more reason to go suicide themselves in Iraq. And that was a hell of a big scandal. And for good reason… if I thought somebody was gassing my people with chemical weapons, I’d be feeling pretty murderous too.

  190. Yeah, but there’s still the question of intent… The above writing assumes that any incendiary side-effects of WP are accidental, as far as I can tell. If fired directly at people, their status as smoke munitions change. Or at least, that’s how it could be interpreted. As i said, I’m no lawyer…

    “I don’t think false accusations of war crimes should be taken so lightly”

    I agree, but why didn’t the US government drag the BBC into court then…?

  191. @ (Abu Zift) Abu Sa’ar, comment 171

    You must realize that it is people like you that are the soul reason why I come here now. To basically put salt in your game, because you have the upper hand now-a-days and this is as close as I’m gonna get to to being able to fight your dirty ass! I want you to know something tho. i don’t hate you because you are defending yourselves by murdering and ethnically cleansing, the main reason i hate you is because YOU LOVE TO LIE, you have no shame, you feel you are elite! That IS why!

    As for your comment, you don’t have to compliment my English, you can stick to false truths like the other fools here that think they can discredit me. It will serve you better to try and discredit me you Baruch Goldstein wannabe, Abu Sa’ar!

    Do you live in the occupied West Bank on illegal settlements by any chance?Speaking of Sa’ar, how would you like it if the old residents relatives of the ones you have evicted, imprisoned and killed. Crawled into a window and mutilated your precious little goo ga ga for all the mutilation that you condoned!

    I have 3 words for you — Muderer, Liar, Thief!

  192. “To basically put salt in your game”

    You’d do that a whole lot better by trying to argue your cause rather than through ranting and name-calling – as it is, you’re just comic relief!

    “the main reason i hate you is because YOU LOVE TO LIE”

    The fact that you, by default, must then hate yourself explains a lot…!

    ” you Baruch Goldstein wannabe”

    None of us here have expressed admiration for Mr. Goldstein. You, on the other hand, have repeatedly shown tendencies that brings to mind Mr. Kuntar…

  193. Yeah, but there’s still the question of intent… The above writing assumes that any incendiary side-effects of WP are accidental, as far as I can tell.

    Nope! Incidental does not mean the same as accidental. And the incidental effects don’t change, according to the situation.

    If fired directly at people, their status as smoke munitions change. Or at least, that’s how it could be interpreted.

    Nope! If that had been the intent, they wouldn’t have bothered with the exclusion in the first place, as the purpose of Protocol III is to ban use of incendiary weapons against people.

    As i said, I’m no lawyer…

    You do a pretty good job playing one on the internet though! You make more sense than the average BBC journalist, at least :)

    And, Adam, firing smoke munitions near people is quite common. Necessary, in most cases… you have to make sure the enemy can’t see you, and the best way to do that is to put the smoke cloud either directly on him or directly on you… better if it’s on him, if you can manage it.

    But your point about intent is right on the money. If a case can be made for deliberately (or indiscriminately) attacking civilians, that’s a war crime, regardless of the weapon used. Just as Al Jazeera said.

  194. Hmm, as I see it, the purpose of Protocol 3 is to define the use of incendiary weapons during conflict. Certain weapons and munitions are prohibited outright, while other weapons with incendiary effects are excluded from this prohibit in so far as their intended purpose is not to be directed at people; ie smoke munitions.

    My argument is that this purpose (and therefore the munition’s status) changes when they’re deliberately directed at people. Now, I’m not talking about “near” people; I’m talking about “at” people (or “near” people, if hitting them is overwhelmingly likely). Hard to prove, yes, and therefore it can be argued that the munition should be banned altogether.

  195. This has to be one of the most read blogs on the ME.
    Good for you SM for promoting discourse…

    I’ve been following the discussion with great attention and AT THE SAME TIME disregarding the emotional outbursts of some of the writers. You’all stop insulting each other and make your points……… Word violence begets physical violence. This is a group intelligent enough to understand that the narrative is in the power of the narrator though facts can not be changed.

    I understand that Israelis are not angels, but I would like to try to be on the side of the angels , so I prefer to address people with civility. Also, war is HELL and no matter what the Geneva convention or other organization says cruelty against civilians will prevail during war times. The point that Israel didn’t blanket bomb Gaza should be taken into consideration when speaking about cruelty and angels by everybody.

    Now my point: Nothing will change until all ARAB COUNTRIES stop the constant INCITEMENT against non-Muslims in their media, mosques, etc. Personally, I am tired of being called “sons of pigs and monkeys”. (in my case daughters…)
    I want peace and I maybe dreaming of peace but, it seems obvious, the leaders do not want peace. The Arafats, Hanyiehs, ETC. HAVE ABUSED MUCH MORE MORE THE PALESTINIANS than any other nation in earth. Iran sent children to the battlefield with plastic keys to open the doors of paradise and blow up the mines in the battlefield.
    As we glorify death, the destruction will continue and with it, the deliberate cruelty of both sides.

    But what we, the people, can do is try to influence indirectly our leaders by talking about COEXISTENCE instead of resistence and martyrdom. We know that violence doesn’t work, but “we don’t know how to stop it” and we know that mantaining low levels of violence is a policy of the small armaments industry.( which is another topic)

    I know that I am dreaming of angels when I say unto you’all: Let’s change the discourse. In the SM as well as for the world.
    And let’s start talking about COEXISTENCE.

  196. This has to be one of the most read blogs on the ME.
    Good for you SM for promoting discourse…

    .
    I’ve been following the discussion with great attention and AT THE SAME TIME disregarding the emotional outbursts of some of the writers. You’all stop insulting each other and make your points……… Word violence begets physical violence. This is a group intelligent enough to understand that the narrative is in the power of the narrator though facts can not be changed.

    I understand that Israelis are not angels, but I would like to try to be on the side of the angels , so Iprefer to address people with civility. Also, war is HELL and no matter what the Geneva convention or other organization says cruelty against civilians will prevail during war times. The point that Israel didn’t blanket bomb Gaza should be taken into consideration when speaking about cruelty and angels by everybody.

    Now my point: Nothing will change until all ARAB COUNTRIES stop the constant INCITEMENT against non-Muslims in their media, mosques, etc. Personally, I am tired of being called “sons of pigs and monkeys”. (in my case daughters…)
    I want peace and I maybe dreaming of peace but, it seems obvious, the leaders do not want peace. The Arafats, Hanyiehs, ETC. HAVE ABUSED MUCH MORE MORE THE PALESTINIANS than any other nation in earth. Iran sent children to the battlefield with plastic keys to open the doors of paradise and blow up mines in the battlefield.
    As we glorify death, the destruction will continue and with it, the deliberate cruelty of both sides.

    But what we, the people, can do is try to influence indirectly our leaders by talking about COEXISTENCE instead of resistence and martyrdom. We know that violence doesn’t work, but “we don’t know how to stop it” and we know that mantaining low levels of violence is a policy of the small armaments industry.

    I know that I am dreaming of angels when I say unto you’all: Let’s change the discourse. In the SM as well as for the world.
    And let’s start talking about COEXISTENCE.

  197. Adam you are still lying and talking non sense Oouch!

  198. i luv Egypt, welcome to typical day in hell on the Sandmonkey blog where anything you say against Israel, will get you called an ANTI SEMITE and caught in a whirl pool of retorts such as Adams above. There excessive pride which makes them feel they are superior to us, is key to understanding why they kill us and why there can never be peace.

    The root of the problem is you can’t hold water in a fish net and you can not tell a Zionist that he is wrong!

    END OF — ANTI SEMETIC — STORY!

  199. …and you’re still making no arguments to support whatever cause you have.

  200. “and caught in a whirl pool of retorts such as Adams above”

    I’m sorry – was it too much for you? I’ll try and keep it more simple in the future…

  201. Adam,

    You didn’t catch the irony in my analogy remark.

    Just as you said the Kenyan tribesman wont understand that it is rude to look thru the wallet. The same goes for telling an advocate of Israel that Arabs are not terrorists for fighting to be free after you have taken everything away from him — and getting called an anti Semite!

    The Zionist doesn’t know better either as he can not afford the privilege of having a conscience during the implementation of such a large scale ethnic transplant.

    It was a good analogy that explained why you are so hypocritical!

  202. I don’t really see the ironi, I’m afraid… I haven’t called you an anti-semite (you yourself have, on numerous occasions, though…) so the ironi is rather lacking. As is the analogy, by the way – those two points have nothing in common.

  203. Do you even know what irony, sarcasm, etc, are…?

    The only truly ironic part of this discussion is you standing up for Palestinian arabs against jews and professing yourself as an anti-semite…! :)

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/semite

    Notice that tiny word down there? “arabs”…? ;)

  204. Exactly what I said!

  205. That Zionists are unable to see the irony,

    if you are able to see it, then you would be more like a Muslim or a protestant!

  206. … which made no sense.

  207. you dont have to drop links with definitions, what are you, some kind of a nerd or something?your a funny geek, I must say!

  208. as of #201 i have not been albe to see the following printed: This has to be one of the most read blogs on the ME.
    Good for you SM for promoting discourse…

    .
    I’ve been following the discussion with great attention and AT THE SAME TIME disregarding the emotional outbursts of some of the writers. You’all stop insulting each other and make your points……… Word violence begets physical violence. This is a group intelligent enough to understand that the narrative is in the power of the narrator though facts can not be changed.

    I understand that Israelis are not angels, but I would like to try to be on the side of the angels , so Iprefer to address people with civility. Also, war is HELL and no matter what the Geneva convention or other organization says cruelty against civilians will prevail during war times. The point that Israel didn’t blanket bomb Gaza should be taken into consideration when speaking about cruelty and angels by everybody.

    Now my point: Nothing will change until all ARAB COUNTRIES stop the constant INCITEMENT against non-Muslims in their media, mosques, etc. Personally, I am tired of being called “sons of pigs and monkeys”. (in my case daughters…)
    I want peace and I maybe dreaming of peace but, it seems obvious, the leaders do not want peace. The Arafats, Hanyiehs, ETC. HAVE ABUSED MUCH MORE MORE THE PALESTINIANS than any other nation in earth. Iran sent children to the battlefield with plastic keys to open the doors of paradise and blow up mines in the battlefield.
    As we glorify death, the destruction will continue and with it, the deliberate cruelty of both sides.

    But what we, the people, can do is try to influence indirectly our leaders by talking about COEXISTENCE instead of resistence and martyrdom. We know that violence doesn’t work, but “we don’t know how to stop it” and we know that mantaining low levels of violence is a policy of the small armaments industry.

    I know that I am dreaming of angels when I say unto you’all: Let’s change the discourse. In the SM as well as for the world.
    And let’s start talking about COEXISTENCE.

  209. Roman Kalik says:

    END OF — ANTI SEMETIC — STORY!

    I thought the anti-Semitic part was when you say that Jews are inherent liars, that the reason that they were hated for millenniums is because they’re conniving and avaricious bastards, and that they hold the economy and leadership of the world in thrall.

    Could be wrong, of course.

  210. You’re right, I shouldn’t have to, but you seem to be unaware of so much that links to definitions are a neccesity…

  211. oh that hurt me, so much…

    Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me!

    Just as bunker busters wont stop the resistance which will one day succeed!just think about it, the more weapons that israel pours in, the more resistance groups pop up that are labelled as terrorist organizations by the west!

    Tell’s you something doesnt it!

    Something that only a blind zionist can’t see til it smacks him in the face!

  212. Get involved in a darfur debate or soemthing, you arent doing to good playing the elitist zionist BTW

  213. “Tell’s you something doesnt it!”

    Yes, it tells me that we’re dealing with stupid people… People, that prefer never-ending hostility towards a much stronger foe, to compromise and a life of peace and prosperity.

    Sad.

  214. Abu Sa'ar says:

    LOL, Sand Ape, you have a pretty good amusement value for a Kuntar admirer. Did you consider finding a job as a court jester? I am sure the position is still available in Saudi Arabia or some other center of primitive barbarism.

    Baruch Goldstein was an aberration, a shameful murderer – good thing he’s dead and poses no more threat to society at large. You, Kuntar wannabe, are not yet in this most desirable of states.

    The sole reason for that, however, is that you’re a coward. Were you a man, Sand Ape, you’d have joined the Jihad a long time ago. The training camps in Syria, Iran, Lebanon, Pakistan, Afghanistan… they’re all in need of more shaheeds-in-training. Were you a man rather than an ape with no balls, you’d surely do more to kill Jews and other infidels. Instead, you cower behind a pseudonym online, attacking Jews and other subhumans with inane rants!

    Hell, even Palestinian women sacrifice their lives to Allah and Leader by blowing themselves up. Even they are more man than you.

  215. “Get involved in a darfur debate or soemthing”

    It’s odd how this conflict happens to overshadow all the other conflicts in this world, isn’t it? Still, it’s no wonder, considering that the arabs have insisted on blaming EVERYONE else for their misfortune, and consequently lunged out at them. That has a tendency to draw the attention (and ire) of people…!

  216. Adam prosperity without dignity isnt shit, even you should know that!

  217. Dignity is recognizing that there should be room for all. Dignity is behaving dignified.

  218. Abu Sa’ar, don’t melt down on me please. I won’t have anyone left to insult!

    Your son will still get killed as divine justice God willing!

    Don’t flatter yourself!

    One minute you denounce Baruch Goldstein and seem to believe in divine justice, then you tempt me to be like him!

    Dude, who do you think helps raise money for the guys who got that faggot Ghalit or whatever the fuck his sodomized ass’s name is right about!

    I do far more good to defeat Israel from behind my keyboard than vandalizing Tel Aviv with my American passport numb nuts!

    You are an aberration!

    bye!

  219. Adam,

    It’s lines like this one:”considering that the Arabs have insisted on blaming EVERYONE else for their misfortune” that make it extremely distasteful to engage in any dialogue with you!

    Is the mom who lost all of her toddlers in Gaza — like abu Sa’ar shall — falsely blaming Israel as well?

  220. Yes, she should be blaming her husband for voting for a terrorist organization…

  221. Pull the plug for a while and go watch the innaguration!

  222. Sharing means caring, West bank settlements equals daring!

    Now Go, its starting!

  223. Duplicate, but it has not been published

    This has to be one of the most read blogs on the ME.
    Good for you SM for promoting discourse…

    .
    I’ve been following the discussion with great attention and AT THE SAME TIME disregarding the emotional outbursts of some of the writers. You’all stop insulting each other and make your points……… Word violence begets physical violence. This is a group intelligent enough to understand that the narrative is in the power of the narrator though facts can not be changed.

    I understand that Israelis are not angels, but I would like to try to be on the side of the angels , so Iprefer to address people with civility. Also, war is HELL and no matter what the Geneva convention or other organization says cruelty against civilians will prevail during war times. The point that Israel didn’t blanket bomb Gaza should be taken into consideration when speaking about cruelty and angels by everybody.

    Now my point: Nothing will change until all ARAB COUNTRIES stop the constant INCITEMENT against non-Muslims in their media, mosques, etc. Personally, I am tired of being called “sons of pigs and monkeys”. (in my case daughters…)
    I want peace and I maybe dreaming of peace but, it seems obvious, the leaders do not want peace. The Arafats, Hanyiehs, ETC. HAVE ABUSED MUCH MORE MORE THE PALESTINIANS than any other nation in earth. Iran sent children to the battlefield with plastic keys to open the doors of paradise and blow up mines in the battlefield.
    As we glorify death, the destruction will continue and with it, the deliberate cruelty of both sides.

    But what we, the people, can do is try to influence indirectly our leaders by talking about COEXISTENCE instead of resistence and martyrdom. We know that violence doesn’t work, but “we don’t know how to stop it” and we know that mantaining low levels of violence is a policy of the small armaments industry.

    I know that I am dreaming of angels when I say unto you’all: Let’s change the discourse. In the SM as well as for the world.
    And let’s start talking about COEXISTENCE.

  224. Sand Ape – I have to admit, you are a persistent little bugger! :)

    Can’t all the evil zionists and crazy terrorists on this blog converse/debate/dialogue WITHOUT it digressing to insults and death threats????

    Ya know, the more I think about it the more I come to the realization that this Israeli/Palestinian conflict might, sadly, go on for the rest of eternity.

  225. Abu Sa'ar says:

    “I do far more good to defeat Israel from behind my keyboard than vandalizing Tel Aviv with my American passport numb nuts!”

    Right. That’s called being a coward. You just don’t have the balls to walk the walk. So you fund terrorists – you think that’ll get you in paradise? You think you can manage to kill me, my son or anyone else by funding mistresses and drugs for terrorists?

    Idiot. You’re a cowardly, whiny little wanker, son. You actually have an American passport – that should make killing subhumans that much easier – and you’re hiding behind a screen! An 8 years old Afghan child being raped by one of your Al-Qaeda friends as payment for Jihad training is more of a man than you. The little children Hamas uses as spotters, ammunition carriers and human shields are more of a man than you. Hell, the Somali abd who continue their war against all infidels even as they’re starving are more men – and better Muslims – than you!

    What can be more pathetic than a Kuntar-wannabe who doesn’t have the balls to kill subhumans?

    Ah yes: a Kuntar-wannabe who doesn’t have the balls to kill subhumans and finds excuses for his cowardice.

  226. Abu Sa'ar says:

    “Ya know, the more I think about it the more I come to the realization that this Israeli/Palestinian conflict might, sadly, go on for the rest of eternity” -

    Not for the rest of eternity. I’d say at least a century, though.

  227. Aretha is singing “let freedom ring.” Israel is the only country to NEVER shut down Al Jazeera, it was on John Stewart last night. Let freedom ring, let freedom ring.

  228. Still feeding a troll, I see.

  229. leo, it’s my new favorite passtime…! 8)

  230. I don’t think we can classify it as a troll anymore. Trolls get their jollies by causing other people to lose it. In its case, it shows up here and insults a few people and then has a public nervous breakdown. Maybe we need a new term.

  231. Adam, one last comment on the Geneva Conventions (honest!)

    Due to the origins and intended purpose of the Hague and Geneva Conventions, they aren’t intended to be interpreted by lawyers. They are intended to be read and understood, by soldiers. The obvious meaning, is the correct meaning. If you see anything that looks subtle and open to interpretation, then that part of the treaty was poorly worded. Not the case with Protocol III. It is perfectly clear what the drafters intended.

  232. Americans too throw shoes at Bush :-)

    The Americans who throw shoes at Bush are the ones who expect the Obama Presidency to go a bit like this music video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1MQW5e6KcE

    Is that your team, Twosret?

  233. Oh, my bad! I posted the actual Music Video! I meant to use “The One” from Matrix:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1gaPCLbB1w&annotation_id=annotation_736966&feature=iv

  234. Why on earth do you all respond to SAND APE? What a vile, nonsensical, dumb, vicious diatribe! This person is obviously mentally deranged or mentally challenged (check out the grammar, syntax, lack of logic constantly displayed). Wouldn’t it be kinder to ignore this pathetic mess rather than to try to respond to it’s violent trash? Didn’t your parents tell you not to respond to crazy people? OMG! What blathering and self-importance with no concept of right or wrong, or decency, or values…. One cannot call this a conversation; it’s more like watching someone vomit. Eeeeouuh

  235. @228 Raven

    Actually “Sand Ape” is not those things. What he actually represents is the enemy of the West. Someone who lives and feeds off the West as a parasite while hating the host. The origins of his hate probably have merit but it has been lost in the mists of the Middle East conflict. He cannot articulate his outrage in a way that you or I understand.

    In polite society we attempt – or pretend to – understand this point of view. Truth be told, there is no point. There will not be any peace in the Middle East until people like Sand Ape are killed or change their mind. Not pleasant, but that is my opinion. The West is much stronger and so they will write the history – whether that is good or bad I cannot comment.

    I have been a soldier for a Western country so perhaps this clouds my view on options for a solution. Apologies for that.

  236. Uragan, is Sand Ape a “he”? In spite of the name, I somehow got a sense that it was an off-the-wall woman. Whatever “it” is, there is no point to talking with someone who descends to such low levels. It hangs about like some kind of filthy bottom-feeder whose optimal environment might be a sewer. I don’t believe “it” has the capability to get past hate-speak. I would classify it as a troll. Hey, dude, it’s not here to talk, it’s here to spew out garbage, of which it seems to have an inexhaustible supply. Bloody annoying is what it is.

  237. Sand Ape wants children killed. No woman would write that.

  238. Uragan, women can be evil, too. There are female suicide bombers in Iraq and those from Gaza. When people hate intensely, they dehumanize people and can justify any cruelty and even murder.

  239. Uragan, is Sand Ape a “he”? In spite of the name, I somehow got a sense that it was an off-the-wall woman. Whatever “it” is, there is no point to talking with someone who descends to such low levels.

    I personally do not burden myself with sex determination of “it”.

    My use of “it” is simply to signify that we are not dealing with human in intellectual sense of the word. “Its” sex is hardly relevant.

  240. ya maneok says:

    ya sand neo-con ya maneyok

  241. Raven please do something about your rotting cunt that is smelling up this blog to the point where even Craig and Abu Sa’ar had to stop masterbating to plug their noses bitch!

    You rotting infidel cunt – are you retarded to keep killing Arab kids and then point your dirty diseased Jewish finger at others and say they don’t know right from wrong?

    Where is your shame you putrid cunt?

    Remove thats rotting swastika from your ass!

  242. @ All you haters out there who are annoyed with my being able to break the stigma by sticking it to you murderous bunch of Jews without repercussions, is the ultimate victory for those of us who stand for humanity and justice!

    Your rejects of God — you have been murdered by every race known to mankind, even by your own! That must tell you how sub human you really are!

    If ever there was a race of ‘its’ then it evidently is you guys!

    Are you that fucking stupid to still try and pray to God — HE FUCKING HATES YOU — if he loved you, do you think he would let you get killed every century even before time began? Or make you so fucking hated? Now with Israel, its a done deal!

    If we kill 50 Israeli woman and kids every month for the next century, it wouldn’t even be a drop in the ocean to the lives that Israel has taken.

    The cesspool Israel is festering and its going to pop real soon!

  243. Abu Sa’ar i never threatened your family as I would never stoop that low, but I did say that your son will die in your arms God willing, just to give you a microjoule of a taste of what you scum suckers have done to the Arab world.

    after all, if you elitist sub humans believe in karma even one little bit, then you know it is inevitable and you reap what you sow!

    I am glad that I have moved you to the point where you have lost your bearings, now you might actually contemplate what is being said to you!

  244. It seems to have been sowing hate and discontent, and has lost its sanity as a result. So maybe it is right about something, at least.

  245. Craig, give yourself a hand job and please, by all means, keep the insults coming!

  246. That isn’t what it’s called when you do it yourself. You having fantasies about me again? :o

  247. It isn’t healthy to have sexual fantasies about people you want to murder, by the way. That’s Ted Bundy territory. No, really… it is.

  248. CRIAG,

    ASSHOLE OF INTELLECT!

    I DO NOT WANT TO MURDER YOU, I WOULDN’T MIND IT THOUGH IF YOU WERE MUDERED!

  249. Man you zionist blog trolling misfits have no case, not even on the extremely sand nigger looking sandmonkeys blog! Who sells his soul to mask this inferiority complex!

    ISRAEL IS THE AGGRESSOR!

    YOU HAVE NO CASE, YOU PUTZ’S

    END OF STORY!

  250. Sand Ape:

    “if [God] loved you, do you think he would let you get killed[?]”

    Now, that’s an interesting question (and certainly one of the reasons why I’m not religious ;) ), the implications of which ought to make you ask yourself that very same question, seeing how many muslims are dying all the time in this day and age…

    “…and you reap what you sow”

    That must have been some nasty seeds you guys have sown in the past…!

  251. AGAIN, I STATE:

    ISRAEL IS THE AGGRESSOR!

    YOU HAVE NO CASE!

    END OF STORY!

  252. Nive argumentation there, Sand Ape… I’m reeeeeally convinced now!

    By the way, THAT was sarcasm, right there at the end. See how that works?

  253. Abu Sa'ar says:

    Uragan – well said.

    Sand Ape –

    I pity you. Must be so frustrating, all this hate and violence with no expression but online rants. Watching the true men – and true Muslims – kill Jews and other subhumans on Youtube, impotent, wanting to join them but too cowardly to actually become a shaheed… pathetic. I have more respect for a terrorist who actually acts in accordance with his beliefs.

    Well, not really. But I am grateful to these people for removing themselves from the gene pool. You, on the other hand, are just pathetic and slightly disgusting.

    And I think I am now done with Sand Ape. It could have been amusing to make it admit to other illegal activity -in addition to funding Hamas, a genocidal terrorist organization. This is an offense punishable by a few years in prison minimum, isn’t it? Anyone cares to drop an E-mail to your local American anti-terrorism or police HQ? While it’s unlikely they’ll actually care about such an insignificant terrorist-wannabe… who knows, maybe they’ll do the rest of humanity a favor and lock it up.

    It was also amusing prodding it into increasingly antisemitic expressions, culminating with purely Nazi terminology. With enough prodding it’ll probably deteriorate into even less coherent and more directly genocidal hate speech… but I think it has morally incriminated itself to a sufficient level.

  254. Abu Sa’ar you are precious morsel of distinguished false Jewery LOL – listen to your rants about how suicide bombers are heros and how I don’t have the balls to become one..

    That’s inciting hatred, now that Obama is the man, I doubt that you will still be above the law!

    Abu Sa’ar said : Watching the true men – and true Muslims – kill Jews and other subhumans on Youtube, impotent, wanting to join them but too cowardly to actually become a shaheed… pathetic. I have more respect for a terrorist who actually acts in accordance with his beliefs

    Hah ha ha, BOY, did I ever piss you off with the remarks about your dead son.

    Always remember me Abu Sa’ar, coz when your son happens to slip and die at school, know that ‘it’ said that God is divine and God is vengence and he will exact his retribution on ye false lost children of Israel for your coninual arrognce over 3000 years, and for breaking the covenant that was given yo you!

    — D — E — A — D –

    Ah haa ha ha, mwa haha ha ha!

  255. AND THIS YOU RETARDED ZIONIST…. (MWA HA HA HA)

    “It could have been amusing to make it admit to other illegal activity -in addition to funding Hamas, a genocidal terrorist organization. ”

    I said Ghalit,that would be Hezbollah not Hamas you gyrating convulsing mess of a history buff!

    BTW watch your son carefully, I heard infantile asphyxiation is on the rise these days!

    Just a word of neighbourly advice from your local “It” lol

    :)

  256. “distinguished false Jewery”

    Heh, that’s a pretty good one, actually… :P

  257. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN! :)

  258. I know what you mean; I just don’t agree.

    It’s a nice word play though…

  259. KUDOS!

  260. >>You should be saying you hate Arabs because they dominated your European asses in the dark ages. Its cause the Israeli’s are dogs that fornicate and have drunken orgies and deny Jesus just like most of you atheist fucks in Europe!<<

    Poitiers. Lepanto. Granada.

    Yep, the Muslims were the superpower for quite awhile after conquering Christian lands in the Middle East and North Africa, yet look who’s the bitch now Sand Ape? Quit acting like psychopathic a-holes and bring back that Golden Age and perhaps you’ll get the respect you demand.

  261. >>Just as bunker busters wont stop the resistance which will one day succeed!just think about it, the more weapons that israel pours in, the more resistance groups pop up that are labelled as terrorist organizations by the west!

    Tell’s you something doesnt it!<<

    Yep. They need more bombs.

  262. Ray in Seattle says:

    Lynn, Good analysis – except for one thing that most people don’t understand.

    The purpose of the Partition Plan was not to “divide the land” between two peoples. It was to provide separate autonomy for two peoples. The Partition Plan required no Arab on the Israeli side of the plan to be removed from land that he or his family owned. No land was confiscated from one Arab nor was one Arab required to sell anything he owned on the Israeli side – and the same went for Jews on the Arab side of the Partition. No-one had to relocate or lose anything.

    Land was lost by Arabs as the result of the War of Independence – launched immediately after Israel’s declaration of statehood by the Arab armies against the new state of Israel. But that’s what usually happens in wars.

    In this case some Arabs were evicted by the Israel military from land that had strategic defensive value and some chose to leave voluntarily at the request of Arab military leaders, in many cases hoping to come back in a few weeks and take over Jewish land and property after the Arab armies evicted or slaughtered the Jews, as the Arabs claimed were their intentions.

    People who don’t want to lose land (and lives) in wars should not start them.

  263. “With enough prodding it’ll probably deteriorate into even less coherent and more directly genocidal hate speech… but I think it has morally incriminated itself to a sufficient level.”

    Already happened more than a handful of times. When backed into a corner he’ll metaphorically don an explosive vest and attack his opponents children in the form of printed threats of violence or molestation, disgusting in content and sad to read. He’s a good example of why the Palestinian cause will never prevail (though he can’t see it). Self defeating, self loathing, to destroy is his modus operandi but always falling short. Throwing tantrums and fits to garner attention but doing much more harm to his cause by publicly displaying his hateful rants, racist beliefs and naively exposing his belief of Pan Arab fantasy history, it would be funny if it wasn’t so sad. Just like Hamas he’s doing the work of his enemies but without cost to them, better marketing for Israel can’t be bought.

  264. SAND APE, you have just committed assumacide: I’m not Jewish; I’m CHRISTIAN. And, you are the sort of person with whom Obama has nothing in common. He has a few characteristics that you may have missed: High moral values and a deep, sincere regard for all people. He has already set the stage for his adminstration to be the cornerstone of tolerance, respect, and celebration of diversity.
    Sorry, but that is NOT YOU.
    I won’t descend to the vile name-calling and revolting, impoverished turgidity that you spewed out.

  265. Well, this was certainly amusing!
    In my neck of the woods Mr. Ape would be called a potty mouth.

  266. Babs, I think that “Mr. Ape” is a woman, a disturbed one, but a woman.

  267. Listen to the flabbergasted assumptions and particularly witty misdiagnoses.

    Just as you Racists are appalled by my oratory and a few rockets being fired at you — have you become so completely blind to your own Racist dementia — that it stops you from imagining how your average Palestinian orphan and victim of collateral damage must feel?

    I am surprised since you abhor the Palestinians so much and claim they are inferior terrorists, that there are not more of my likes here. I mean doesn’t that surprise you guys even a little bit.

    Makes you guys look like hypocrite’s doesn’t it, to make such false claims about them.

    I know the best thing I could do for you is to get out of your hair, so I wont.

    Guerrilla war fare til the end. Maybe I should change my name to Sand Gorilla because I think Sand Ape sounds to less suitable

  268. “I am surprised since you abhor the Palestinians so much and claim they are inferior terrorists, that there are not more of my likes here. I mean doesn’t that surprise you guys even a little bit.

    Makes you guys look like hypocrite’s doesn’t it, to make such false claims about them.”

    That sentence and particularly the conclusion makes no sense…

    I don’t see them as inferior terrorists though – they’re quite seasoned terrorists that know every trick in the book. Hell, they practically wrote the book! :)

  269. Chhhh..

    Talk about no logical debates being made and comments making no sense.

    Thanks ADAM!

    I don’t know what looks funnier, half naked girls running around near the holliest of sites on earth to all 3 major religions.

    Or the debating of a Dane like your self on a conflict that is so bitter and couldn’t possibly even involve him in the first place.

  270. This…

    “Chhhh..

    Talk about no logical debates being made and comments making no sense.

    Thanks ADAM!

    I don’t know what looks funnier, half naked girls running around near the holliest of sites on earth to all 3 major religions.”

    …again make no sense. Where do you come up with all this stuff?!? :D

    “Or the debating of a Dane like your self on a conflict that is so bitter and couldn’t possibly even involve him in the first place.”

    Already answered in another thread. Feeling threatened because your own private reality is falling apart around you? ;)

  271. Actually, NO, I aint feeling threatened at all!

    What a preposterous claim. Why would you think your remarks are so omnipotent to the extent where that would be the case?

    I just knew how much it would piss you off and reveal your over exposure to Saudi hospitality!

    I still don’t know what looks funnier, half naked girls running around near the holiest of sites on earth to all 3 major religions.”

    “Or the debating of a Dane like your self on a conflict that couldn’t possibly even involve you in the first place.”

  272. Well, you’ve tried, very unsuccesfully, to repute my arguments for a few hundred posts or so, but of course coming nowhere. Instead you’ve resorted to angry outbursts and claims that have no basis in reality. Now that you’re being called on these claims, you’ve ended up telling people to butt out…

    Sure looks like you’re feeling threatened! :)

  273. the fact that you have lost objectivity after being one of the wittiest commenter’s here, is fact enough that you are beaten! Saying my reputing has gotten me know where. I have effectively hindered your reasoning. A victory by all measures. if you want to start over again then fine, but if you want to keep this going on, then that is most fine as well!

  274. “the fact that you have lost objectivity after being one of the wittiest commenter’s here, is fact enough that you are beaten!”

    What ARE you takling about, little ape? :D

    “I have effectively hindered your reasoning”

    Hilarious! :D No, you have effectively shown complete lack of reason.

  275. Well I guess you chose war over peace then huh!

    You wish Butter Boy!

    All the silent Arab readers can sense the increase in your frustration and hence your innate tendency for name calling when feeling threatened!

    You gotta love who is actually getting it in the ass here!

  276. “All the silent Arab readers can sense the increase in your frustration and hence your innate tendency for name calling when feeling threatened!”

    Who’s frustrated here? You’ve given up any effort of reasoning, arguing or justifying your stance. Every point you have made has been thoroughly retorted beyond any doubt. You’re just left with name calling, making up “facts” and lying…

    sad.

    But funny as well! :D Keep it up!

    “You gotta love who is actually getting it in the ass here!”

    You know, sticking it to yourself could be construed as a form of incest – don’t go that way! :D

  277. Sand Ape, you aren’t even coherent.
    Other adjectives come to mind: pathetic, sick, stupid.

  278. Every point you have made has been thoroughly retorted beyond any doubt.

    CLEARLY DELUSIONAL!

    See comment 131 on http://www.sandmonkey.org/2009/01/21/re-branding-ghaza/#comment-201427

  279. raven, thanks for at least wearing a maxi pad this time before coming here to pass your usual amount of italian homos gas this time!

  280. “See comment 131 on http://www.sandmonkey.org/2009/01/21/re-branding-ghaza/#comment-201427

    I did – you’re wrong… :D

  281. You cant regard a double negative remark that already started with “a doubt” in this case it was the word “if”

    I know they dont teach that in Saudi school but oh well!

  282. “You cant regard a double negative remark that already started with “a doubt” in this case it was the word “if””

    Short expalanation of your lack in english skills supplied in other thread…

  283. Are you retarded?

  284. Aw, Sand Ape… You can rant better than that!?!

    What is it? Guy or gal?

  285. quit asking me that lolololol

  286. You sound beyond infatuated with me now!

  287. Infatuated? Infatuated in the way where you can’t look away from the crazy street bum who forgot how to bath is sleeping in his own filth and is ranting incoherently about conspiracies and injustices on the street corner that only he can see? If you mean that kind of infatuation … then okay.

    Raven, I think the reason we keep addressing Sandy Ape is because he amuses us, he can’t see what a ridiculous little sluggard he is. Poor grammar, spelling, syntax and comprehension are only the beginning of his poor rhetoric skills. He makes the best argument one can find for the justification of Israeli Defense Forces that one can make without him ever knowing it. He’s really a bit of a marketing boon for Israel and the IDF, and at no extra cost to them!! God bless his little ignorant soul. No offence intended Sand Ape, continue please …

  288. Spoken like a true Rothschild teddy :)

  289. LOL, elitist plundering Rothschild gorillas amuse me even more than your infatuation with wearing your own feces on your head, LOL!

    I think it is safe to say that mankind in general is more infatuated with exotic silver backs then they are with street bums.

    You are not a Rockefeller or Rothschild, just a subordinate sub human, unknowingly serving his Jewish masters. You got to love the irony there — not seeing who is actually taking it in the arse! :)

  290. Tedders, I see what you mean lol. Hadn’t thought of it that way :)

  291. “unknowingly serving his Jewish masters”

    Yes master! (in my best igor voice) :)

    Yes you’re right, Jews control everything down here in Texas, we gave up self determination and individual responsibility years ago. Now that our Jewish overlords have taken decision making off our hands we have more time for barbeque, square dances and bashing Palestinians! (sarcasm mode off) ;)

  292. Tedders, LOL!

  293. Raven,

    You never said thanks for my compliment on you finally wearing your pad to the show!

  294. You sarcastic larvae speak of peace, civility, compassion,,,lol!

    You can’t invade another nation with guns and then try and speak from a position of ‘no-onus,’ civility, compassion, peace and superior ethics.

    That’s wreaks of rotting entrails….

  295. “You can’t invade another nation with guns and then try and speak from a position of ‘no-onus,’ civility, compassion, peace and superior ethics.”

    True. That’s the lesson of the various attacks on Israel through the last 60 years – strange that Hamas and their ilk (you included) have so much trouble fathoming this… ;)

    But seriously… You need to understand this

    1. There was no palestinian nation prior to the founding of Israel.
    2. The arabs were the ones doing the attacking of another nation. They didn’t do too well, and lost some land to their would-be victims. Quite a normal result of warfare, really – you lose the war, you lose some land.
    3. The Israelis cannot give back this land as long as their enemy has not understood that he has lost, and gives up any further attempts of conquest.
    4. Egypt understood this and got back Sinai. Why can’t the rest of the aggresors learn from the egyptians?

  296. You just contradicted yourself too far for me to have any rational interest in your opinions anymore, what-so-ever.

    You do realize that you said TRUE to the fact that you can not invade another nation with guns and then try and speak from a position of ‘no-onus,’ civility, compassion, peace and superior ethics.”

    True. That’s the lesson of the various ((((((attacks on Israel)))))) through the last 60 years!

    Therefore Israel is void of a nation and is not a sovereign country although we still recognize it as one.

    Your point no. 2 sis also void because it presumes that it is for Israel to exist in the first place.

    Although naturally its too late for that right now and the Arabs should at least pretend to accept Israel in order to get their 67 borders back. But since Israel isn’t giving us any excuse for peace, it seems that they don’t want to give back the borders. After all, who would, they would be stupid to give back more than 100 billion worth of illegal settlement’s!

  297. OMG, upon awaiting what preposterous condescending things you would retort with. I just realized that your opinion is void anyhows because there is absolutely nothing you can do to sway the conflict in either way.

  298. “Therefore Israel is void of a nation and is not a sovereign country although we still recognize it as one.”

    Uh, no… It shows that Israls neighbours are the ones not sticking to your definition of what “you” can and cannot do. Israel is just responding.

    And once again your sad excuse for an argument crumbles… :D

    “But since Israel isn’t giving us any excuse for peace, it seems that they don’t want to give back the borders. After all, who would, they would be stupid to give back more than 100 billion worth of illegal settlement’s!”

    Let’s change that to…

    “But since Hamas and other terrorist organizations enjoying wide support among the palestinian people aren’t giving Israel any excuse for peace, it doesn’t make sense to give back the borders. After all, who would be stupid enough to give back obvious strategical advanteges to enemies sworn to eradicate your country?!”

    There, much better…

  299. ” I just realized that your opinion is void anyhows because there is absolutely nothing you can do to sway the conflict in either way.”

    True. Luckily, the same goes for you…! :)

  300. I wont argue with a Dane that I actually am an Arab who is an integral part of the conflict/solution and have family serving in a major Arab army, the strongest and largest Arab army in the world BTW. And that you are not an integral part of the conflict….’sigh’

  301. Sand Ape, it’s fair enough that you see anyone from outside Israel and Palestine as being outside the conflict, but by that logic, you yourself are just as outside as I am…

    In any case, as mentioned before, muslims have made quite sure that noone is unaffected by this conflict, anywhere in the world. Therefore I’ll have to maintain that yes, it IS my problem too…

  302. Whatever…if you say so…yawn!!!

  303. “the strongest and largest Arab army in the world BTW”

    So lets see, by the last count that I had, there were FIVE of the largest Arab armies COMBINED together to attack poor li’l ol’ Israel all by her lonely self… and still got their asses handed neatly to them in a paper sack.

    What point are you trying to make when you say, “the strongest and largest Arab army in the world”? That Israel could completely dominate and destroy them in a matter of days, or hours.

    Just sayin’! ;)

  304. Sounds like some out of date fundamentalist teddy Koresh propogandist crap if you ask me…lol….yawn!

    So lets see, by the last count that I had, there were FIVE of the largest Arab armies COMBINED together to attack poor li’l ol’ Israel all by her lonely self

    What point are you trying to make when you say, “the strongest and largest Arab army in the world”? That Israel could completely dominate and destroy them in a matter of days, or hours.

    Oh in a matter of days huh, lol, snicker, like they did with hezbollah or Egypt in 73…..

    Sleep Waco texas koresh teedifiers

  305. Terminal Delusion combined with Cognitive Dissonance, what a bright future you have for yourself Sandy!!

  306. Don’t use big words david (tedders) koresh, it makes you look serious, you Christian fundamentalist Waco boy!

  307. Fort Worth.

  308. More like Fort Worthless!

  309. FORT WORTHLESS IS MORE LIKE IT!

  310. You still make branch dividian seem like boy scouts!

  311. Vernon Wayne Howell (koresh) was merely a sociopathic pedophile. Good riddance.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Koresh

    “Due to his poor study skills, he was put in special ed classes and nicknamed “dumbass” and “Mister Retardo” by his teachers and fellow students”

    “Koresh then had a sexual relationship with Lois Roden, the prophetess and leader of the sect who was then 78 years old, eventually claiming that God had chosen him to father a child with her, who would be the Chosen One.”

    “Lois Roden died in 1986. Up until then Koresh had been teaching that monogamy was the only way to live, but suddenly announced that polygamy was allowed for him. In March 1986, Koresh first slept with Karen Doyle, aged 14. He claimed her as his second wife. In August 1986, Koresh began secretly sleeping with Michele Jones, his wife’s younger 12-year-old sister. In September 1986 Koresh began to preach that he was entitled to 140 wives, 60 women as his “queens” and 80 as concubines”

    “Koresh then built up an entirely new theology around his “marriage” to Doyle. This theology was called the “New Light,” with a doctrine of polygamy for himself, which he called “The House of David.” According to this doctrine, Doyle was supposed to have a daughter named Shoshanna who would then be married to Koresh’s firstborn son Cyrus. However, Doyle failed to conceive, so Koresh then transferred his attention to his wife’s sister. Former Davidian David Bunds said that Koresh’s doctrine of polygamy “rose out of his deep desire to have sex with young girls. Once he was able to convince himself that it was God’s will then he was able to be free of guilt and have sex with as many young girls as he could get his hands on.”

    “Kiri Jewell, daughter of Branch Davidian Sherri Jewell, claimed in testimony before Congress in 1995 that she was sexually molested at the age of 10 by Koresh, who then read to her from the Bible.”

  312. “FORT WORTHLESS IS MORE LIKE IT!”

    If I were you I’d come to the Fort Worth town square and yell it from the top of your lungs!! ;) The local cowboys would like that!!

  313. LOL, hit any Arab land or Muslim country and say something similar about Islam or Arabia!

    Have you ever seen what Parana’s do to submerged meat?

  314. The gap has widened over the years -Actually it is 4 Muslims and 172 Jewish Nobel Laureates (excluding Peace) – I have the updated list at Muslim Inventions – Nobel Prizes