Fuckin Hymens!

The Egyptian Parliament is in uproar, the newspapers can’t seem to stop talking about the impending crisis, which spells doom and gloom to the Egyptian society. But what is the issue that is uniting the Egyptian opposition and the government, and is so urgent that it took not one, but two session of the parliament to discuss? Unemployment? Food Riots? Swineflu? The Jooz, again? No, the answer is far more sinister than that, and it even has a sinister Japanese sounding name to accompany it: GIGIMO. And ladies and gentlemen, it’s a hymen.

Proving one more time that when it comes to Muslim women, it’s what’s between their legs, Egypt is simmering over a Chinese device that fakes female virginity. The device is reportedly available in Syria for $15 and is quite popular. No one knows if the device is being sold in Egypt yet, but just the mere thought of a device, which is said to release liquid imitating blood, allowing a woman to fake virginity on her wedding night, has driven the conservative society crazy.

One Egyptian Muslim scholar demanded that people who bring the device into the country should face the death penalty, and The Muslim Brotherhood wants the kit banned on grounds it will encourage promiscuity. The Muslim Brotherhood, it seems, believes that Egyptian girls are super sluts who are only stopped from sleeping with anyone they meet in the street by their tiny hymens. Anal sex, on the other hand, is still Kosher, and encouraged.

The crazy fuckheads (my pet name for misogynists everywhere) are not content that their ideology has put headscarves on the heads of 90 per cent of Egyptian women. Now it’s the horror of uncertainty about that “good girl” they marry: “What if someone else was there first? What if she knows how small my Penis really is?”, they seem to ask. They used to be able to kill any girl who was found without a hymen, and now they might never get to kill another girl again. The thought of that is clearly upsetting to them.

This obsession with virginity is both shallow and deadly. And you know what? People in Egypt are having sex outside of marriage, as they do everywhere. Never mind that 25% of all women are born without hymens either, or that Hymen reconstruction surgery is still an option for sexually active women who could afford it. But the danger of GIGIMO is its utter cheapness. Honor, it seems, was only worth 15 dollars at the end of the day.

Despite all of this, we at the Sandmonkey blog are supporting the effort started by Egyptian politicians to ban the fake hymens, as long as they ban real hymens with them. We would like a consistent hymen-banning policy, goddamn it. Or we would also like to have the males’ anal virginity to be inspected on the wedding night, with the wedding canceled and the groom killed if it has been found that he has experienced the pleasures of having his Hershey highway ridden. We would find it so so interesting to see how many such male honor killings would take place until men start decrying the whole thing as barbaric. Wouldn’t you?

Comments

  1. “super sluts”

    Were they a part of the “Fantastic Four” or the “League of Justice”?

  2. When I first heard about the fake hymen, I thought it was a joke. I can’t believe all the fuss being made over this stupid thing. Your comments mirrored my thoughts.

  3. This is old news sandmonkey, is that the best you got, where the hell have you been man, under a rock?

    First of all, you know the Middle East is the conservative center of the world and the birthplace of all religions. Islam just happens to be the religion that progressed the least to accommodate the secular masses. So get over it already.

    Secondly, if you really hate the Middle East so damn much, why don’t you just get the fuck out of it instead of being a first class hypocrite. Like when you lead the Muslim funeral prayer for your sweet old grandmother and attended her Quran recitation which spoke the words:
    ” Oh ye who believe I am your God, the God of dam, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad. Do not not spread mischief on the earth and be chaste. ”

    What a let down your are, seeing how proud you were of her giving your relative [the bar owner] a plaque that stated “Allah is Great,” in order to remind him that alcohol is forbidden [haram] in Islam. As I am sure you know, it is the world’s greatest panty remover. If you can’t get laid without it and find a nourishing sensual relationship, then don’t get all salty about it and blame it on Muslims.

    Thirdly, you know damn well that any type of premarital sex is forbidden, anal included, except in your deluded Muslim apologist mind. What’s with the checking guys guys for having had anal sex, is that what you are really trying to defend. I am sure you know homosexuality is illegal by law. I sense a spiral of latent homosexuality resonating from your words.

    Will you only be happy when there are gay pride parades in Mecca like there are in Jerusalem now, or what? Pretty naive of you don’t you think?

    The Middle East is timeless and sacred with all it’s splendor, never a dull moment.

  4. “Fuckin Hymens!” is such a great title! So many interpretations!

    Welcome back

  5. muhammad, that was one of the most vicious personal attacks I’ve ever seen. Do you consider yourself a good Muslim?

  6. Well I am a Muslim, whatever that means to you, but to me, I am simply the an antithesis mouth piece to those who release negative propaganda from the cubicle of degenerative resentments that lead their psychologically unstable punitive minds. Any other questions?

  7. Craig,

    Well YES I am a Muslim, whatever that means to you.

    But whether a good one that is only for god to judge OK and is irrelevent.

    To myself, I am simply an antithesis mouth piece to those who release negative nonsensical propaganda from the cubicle of degenerative resentments which controls their punitive minds. I have my hobby, you have yours. Any other questions there buddy?

  8. Craig,

    Well YES I am a Muslim, whatever that means to you. But whether a good one or not, who cares, that is only for God to judge.

    To myself, I am simply an antithesis mouth piece to those who release negative nonsensical propaganda from the cubicle of degenerative resentments which controls their punitive minds.

    I have my hobby, you have yours.

    Any other questions there buddy?

  9. Good to see you back, Sandmonkey. And with a vengeance, too!

  10. Good to see you back, my friend. And with a vengeance too!!

  11. As I said b4 u dleleted my comment Sandy,

    This is old news. Where the hell have you been, under a rock, is this the best you got?

    It is sad that you would take such offence & flete my comment.. What haqepned to objectiive, if poignant free speech?

    I said: Firstly, you know the Middle East is the hub of conservatism in this world, so why would this old story surprise you, what else is new?

    If you hate the M.E so damn much, why don’t u pack up & leave it already instead of stibking around & continuing to be a first class hypocrite? Like when you lead the funeral procession for your sweet old grandmother & the Quran later had clearly recited :

    ‘Oh ye who believe, I am the God of Adam, Abraham, Moses, Jesus & Muhammad. Do not do mischecf on Earth & remain Chaste.’

    You are such a let down to your grand6ther man. Remember you were so proud when you told the story of how she gave a plaque to your relative who had just openned a bar, that read ‘Allah is Great’ to remind him that alcohol is forbidden [haram] in Islam, because it happens to be the world’s numbfr 1 panty remover. Just becbuse you can’t find a wholsome relationship without it, you don’t have to get all salty about it & blame it on Islam.

    Plus whats with checking mens anuses for penetration? I sense a hint of latant homosexuality there. Is that what this is all about? You really should be more careful, being an Arab & recently returned from Qatar..

    @ Craig, well yes I am a Murlim, whatever that means to you, but whats it to you anyways? That is only for God to decide last time I checked.

    I am however a mouthpiece against those who release negative nonsensical propoganda from the cubicle of degenerative resentments which control their punitive minds.

    I have my hobbies, you have yours.

    Any other questions there buddy?

  12. hahaha those chinese are hilarious!
    Long time sandmonkey!

  13. Question to Muslim Scholars in town: If a muslim unmarried woman desires to have sex with men but Didn’t because she is affraid of men in her family, is she committing sin to God or not? if the answer is NO then this hymen is not a religious issue but rather self defence, and if the answer is YES it is still not a religious issue because she is already committing sin in her heart and mind. So why do you get involved exactly?

  14. Domo I am no Muslim scholar, I don’t think you could find one here in a blue moon, and I mean ever!! But this is irrelevant, its too simple, in theory I know what you are trying to say. But it still made no sense.

    How again exactly did you come to the conclusion that she is commiting sin in her heart yet it is not a rekilgious issue when you use religious terminology like, God, sin, in her heart & mind?

    you mean like a want to be thief who thinks twice about robbing a bank because they might get caught?

    “So why do you get involved exactly?”

    Care to elaborate what that meant? As in getting involved with a man, are you referring to a woman or are you referring to the author of this blog, or a reader on this open thread? Whom and what exactly are you referring to?

  15. Aymen Digitalis says:

    And if I ever find myself thinking What Will they Think of Next! Let’s forget the uproar in Egypt about this product for a second, and stop to admire and worship the ingenuity behind this product. This is an AMAZING example of the free market at work. An entrepreneur identifies a need, and they build a cheap, effective product that meets that need. Genius!

    I was just browsing this site called the Tomorrow Mural where users from around the world (including Egypt) get to voice their opinions on what they want the future to be. http://tiny.cc/Zjslx

    I now know what my entry will be! “I hope the same kind of ingenuity that lead to the production of the Gigimi may one day infect Egyptian entrepreneurs!”

  16. nada from ny says:

    i would sure love to cover your mouth with one of those insta-hymens!

  17. When religious leaders and scholars put in the mind of the masses that a girl’s virginity and family honor is one thing, that what confuses the Islamic society and bring them into the mess they are in. Virginity is very important issue between the girl and god and the choice she make for herself. Family who commits murder in the name of “honor killing” actually, committing more sin than the girl who does engage in sex by her own choice. The mess religious leaders put in the mind of masses lead to the ultimate stupidity of families in upper Egypt Africa, Pakistan,….killing their rapped daughter in the name of “honor killing”. Even granting milder sentences because of “honor killing” is degradation to humanity. This stupidity, is what makes the artificial hymen a profitable product in the Islamic society. As long as people are happy maintaining this kind of stupidity, “hymen industry” (that being artificial, surgical, ,,etc.) profits will rise. Good for them.

  18. So glad to have you back….again, SM. And especially glad you chose such an important topic for your latest comeback. But seriously, women have had all kinds of options for faking virginity, why is this one causing so much “noise”. For hardliners, anything to differentiate their Muslim faith from the liberal attitudes of the rest of the world. The Chinese aren’t exactly known for their sexual liberty. Their national airline requires that all women flight attendants to be virgins. Whose checking them out, I wonder?

  19. Ha! I love it! A lifetime ago, when I was a young girl living in Cairo, a wise man once told me to stay away from the local men because, “they do each other until they are 30 and then they take a wife”.

  20. Well Julie, it looks like that wise man got the better of you after all.

  21. Now Julie it is sad but your story is very close to truth in the ME. you are upsetting the Gay community who like to promote homosexualism as a natural phenomena not driven by initial circumstances then followed by sexual inertia as you described. I wish the west examines similar stories about the ME and learn the truth contrary to what their media and society promote.

  22. Welcome back, Sandy – good to see you’re still alive and kicking! Looking forward to more updates…

    About the hymen thing: Up here, surgically “repaired” hymens are all the rage among young muslim women, and I haven’t heard any muslim men complaining yet, at least not publicly. It seems saving face is a lot more important than actually avoiding sex before marriage…

    There’s still quite a debate about the situation, but obviously from a different angle – should young women be socially “forced” to undergo this kind of surgery in a modern society?

  23. With the collapse of Ja’far Al Sadiq’s empire in Iran and Ibn Hanbal’s slow demise in Saudi Arabia, the tide is turning and the fictitous sects that emerged during the Abbasid Empire knows as the Sunni and Shia sects and others who follow man made revelations known as hadiths are slowly collapsing. Malik’s Empire in Sudan is collapsing and Abu Hanifa’s Empire in Pakistan is turning upside down. The so called Islamic states have proven to be ideologically obsolete and in the wrong side of history. The sects are on life support and the Koranist will take over. So who are the Koranist?

    The Koranist believe only the Koran should speak for Islam.

    WHAT IS DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ISLAM AND TODAY’S PRACTICES?

    In comparing the teachings of Islam as derived from the Book of God to the practices taught and enforced by the popular Sunni and Shia faiths (1.2 Bn followers), we find that the list is quite extensive, with some of the highlights as follows:

    In Islam, the requirement to be a Muslim is to simply accept and live according to the �Straight Path� (6:151-153), Vs. the Sunni or Shia 5-pillars which come from unauthorized books�

    In Islam, abolishing Slavery is taught to be an act of righteousness (90:12-13), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings which encourages slavery under war�

    In Islam, women are never forbidden from praying or fasting during Menstruation (2:222), nor is there a specific dress code (i.e. the Headscarf) imposed on them beyond modesty, Vs. the Sunni and Shia which teach the undermining of women and forcing them to cover their hair and avoid praying or fasting at certain times…

    In Islam, a man or women may leave a Will, after settlement of debt (4:12), Vs. Sunnis who refuse to accept wills if there are any direct descendants…

    In Islam, Monogamy is the basis for normal relationships, while polygamy is only allowed in cases involving marrying the mothers of orphans under the man�s guardianship (4:3), Vs. Sunnis where a man may be a polygamist simply if he can afford to, and Shia which allow sex for pleasure (Mut�a)…

    In Islam, Divorce is enforceable only after a two-phase period, and it may be made nullified if the couple reconcile before the end of this period (65:1, 65:4), Vs. Sunni teachings that destroy families by allowing a divorce to occur on the spot with no waiting period and no nullification…

    In Islam, Thieves do not have their hands cut-off, but are made to work until they return that which is stolen (12:76), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings which brutally amputate the hands causing disability…

    In Islam, no one is allowed to be killed or Stoned for adultery (24:2), Vs. Sunni and Shia laws of stoning married adulterers to death…

    In Islam, absolute Freedom of Faith is allowed (2:256, 10:99; 18:29; 88:21-22), Vs. Sunni and Shia requiring apostates to be killed and rejecting the practice of other faiths…

    In Islam, people are acknowledged as being diverse and each is to be respected for his/her level of spiritual growth. A Submitter �Muslim� must work to attain the status of Faithful �Mumin� (49:14), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings that all followers of their religion must think, act, and even look the same (cult syndrome)…

    In Islam, War can only be declared in cases of self-defence – no offensives (2:190), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings allowing raids and attacks on any people who are considered non-Muslim by their standards…

    In Islam, Pilgrimage is a centre for gathering of nations and for all to witness the benefits of being together (22:27-28), Vs. Sunni and Shia bringing in polytheistic rituals and superstition (touching of black stone, circling 7 times, etc..)…

    In Islam, a Year is a luni-solar count made of 365-days (17:12, 9:36), with all the seasons fitting-in-place Vs. Sunnis teaching it to be a lunar one based on 354 days which creates confusion of seasons and time�

    In Islam, males and females are not required to be Circumcised (32:7), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings requiring all males to be circumcised and females in some cases…

    In Islam, music, statues, gold and silk are all Lawful(7:32-33, 16:116), Vs. Sunni beliefs forbidding silk & gold for men, and forbidding music & statues for all…

    In Islam, rule of Government is under the constitution of the Qur’an through consultation and free-speech (5:48, 42:38). Vs. Sunni teachings which allow the rise of dictators or monarchs, and Shia teachings which uphold self-appointed religious leaders based on genealogy.

    Welcome | free-minds.org

    Koran is peace!

  24. LZ @ 12:

    “Their national airline requires that all women flight attendants to be virgins.”

    WTF?!? Link…?

  25. Mo @ 5:

    “You really should be more careful, being an Arab & recently returned from Qatar..”

    You can say this with a straight face and no flinching?

    “That is only for God to decide last time I checked.”

    It would seem not – that’s the entire point of this topic; to show how humans take it upon themselves to decide what God wants…!

    “negative nonsensical propoganda from the cubicle of degenerative resentments which control their punitive minds”

    :D The only one’s being controlled here are the ones, that insist on their interpretation of a 1500 year old book being the one and only truth, and insisting that everyone else accept this…

  26. You can get it shipped to you and you can check the pictures too!
    http://www.gigimo.com/main/product/Artificial,Virginity,Hymen,2299.php?prod=2299

    :)

  27. Mo, I was asking if you considered yourself a good muslim because you were attacking Sandmonkey for not being a good muslim, eh? And you were being an obnoxious and aggressive ass about it too. Since I’ve been told (by muslims) that muslims aren’t supposed to behave the way you did, I found that a bit strange.

    And then in your reply you said that your religion was between you and God? But Sandmonkey’s isn’t, right? His beliefs are subject to being attacked by you. Or did God tell you to attack Sandmonkey the way you did?

    I can’t look at the way you behaved here and come up with anything other than “hypocrisy” to explain it.

  28. “I can’t look at the way you behaved here and come up with anything other than “hypocrisy” to explain it.”

    du⋅plic⋅i⋅ty  [doo-plis-i-tee]

    –noun, plural -ties for 1.
    1. deceitfulness in speech or conduct; speaking or acting in two different ways concerning the same matter with intent to deceive; double-dealing.

    Origin:
    1400–50; late ME duplicite < MF < ML, LL duplicitās, with -ite r. -itās; see duplex, -ity

    Synonyms:
    1. deception, dissimulation. See deceit.

    Antonyms:
    1. straightforwardness.

    Use “duplicity” in a sentence:
    Sandy’s and Mo’s arguments are based on duplicity.

  29. Thanks Tedders! That works much better :)

  30. DomainDiva says:

    Glad to see you back dude,and in great form!!!! Hope all is well.

  31. I feel very much for women in the Middle East and what they have to face in regards of this topic. Many Egyptian girls are decent, they don’t sleep around by choice, and have very good ethics and morals when it comes to pre-marital sex.
    They uphold their religion and their family values and save themselves for the right man.

    Some Egyptian men are very hypocritical like in many other cultures and the society helps them to be this way. Some Egyptian women are forced into this situation due to taboos in the culture.

    It is so sad to see anyone deceiving their husband to be by doing such thing and starting their lives based on deception.

  32. @Twosret: Thanks for the sympathy but we are doing just fine probably better than many Western women actually. Do not believe every thing that’s reported and of course sandmonkey has a very twisted way of seeing our society anyways. Many girls choose to tell the truth and guys are more understanding now than ever before. And you are very correct because for the majority they choose to remain “real” virgins. As for those with double standards, well, you need to check the person you are getting involved with someone who holds you responsible for something he also did will follow the same rule with every thing not only not having pre-marital sex and who wants to live with a person like than or have his kids.
    To the one who was asking, you could sin just by thinking about it but you can not be punished by any one except God on judgment day, for your thoughts as long as the thoughts did not translate to actions.
    To the majority of those commenting, last time i checked pre-marital sex is not allowed to both men and women in christianity and judaism as well, thank God we still have many who choose to not twist the system set by God which protects the woman, the kids and the man also.

  33. brooklynjon says:

    Anon,

    I can’t speak for Christianity, but as regards the permissibility of pre-marital sex in Judaism, the only correct response is that you’d have to ask your Rabbi. Since I’m not your Rabbi, I’ll stop now.

    bj

  34. Anon,

    To the majority of those commenting, last time i checked pre-marital sex is not allowed to both men and women in christianity…

    Neither is adultery, and we all know how much bite that has in the real world, right? I think it’s tremendously unfair that the only people who expected (by society!) to comply with such religious rules are unmarried women. It’s none of my business what girls in the ME do or don’t do, but until some method of policing male chastity is found then I’m all for this contraption. As it is, women have to take a male’s word for it about his sexual history. Shouldn’t that be good enough for female’s as well?

  35. Twos @ 27:

    “Many Egyptian girls are decent, they don’t sleep around by choice, and have very good ethics and morals when it comes to pre-marital sex.”

    I see nothing decent about self-imposed celibacy; I see no good ethics or moral in refusing to have sex with someone you like (or desire) until some old bearded fellow, who probably doesn’t know what sex is, says it’s a-okay…

    I really don’t get the obsession with virginity in these old religions… Give me a girl with some experience any day – sex is guaranteed to be soooo much better! B-)

  36. #27-Totally agree. What a sad, sorry way to start a *lifelong* marriage…skeletons usually come out of the closet..like a “Muslim Fatal Attraction” or something.

  37. When I lost my virginity I don’t think I really had a hymen… I didn’t bleed at all. I was just supremely thankful my husband wasn’t some religious nut who’d run screaming from the marriage insisting I wasn’t a virgin. Frankly, I think he’d prefer the Super Slut in me to come out a bit more.

  38. Anon,

    Thanks for your comment but I am Egyptian and was raised in Egypt till the age of 17 and I wasn’t looking down on Egyptian women and believe me I DO know how western women do suffer also.

    I just wish the Egyptian women were treated with equality and more respect. I know things have changed lately and I am happy it did.

    Adam,

    The way I see it away from any religion growing up in Egypt is that I am too precious to be shared from one man to the other based on a quick infatuation or attraction or as you call it desire.

    I never looked down on anyone else who chose different. Many of my friends from a very religious families background didn’t care one bit about what Islam said and went ahead with what they thought is right for them.

    This is a problem for women in general all over the world and even western women who sleep around are called all sorts of names while the men are not judged based on that.

  39. anonymous says:

    I was under the understanding that anal sex for both men and women is forbidden in Islam. You wrote in this post that it is quite acceptable.

    Whether it is socially acceptable to have anal sex or not, that is anothe rissue but please be specific and accurate in your posts.

    You owe it to yourself and your readers whose primary information on Islam comes from CNN.

    I do agree with Mo…if you hate Egypt so much with its predominantly muslim society and its lame politics, why are you still there.

    I also agree having read the post you wrote about your grandmother’s funeral, that, if she were still living, being the practicing God-fearing muslim she was (from what you wrote)…she would be immensely disappointed.

    Easy to live for the moment. Much harder to live with the next life in mind. So many rules to follow and pleasure principle is held in check.

  40. Anonymous and Mo,

    I had the honor to know briefly Sandmonkey’s grandmother, she was an amazing woman and Sandmonkey was in mourning when he wrote about his teta (granny) in your eyes he might not be a good practicing muslim like her or at least doesn’t see Islam the way she sees it.

    Why on earth would you scold him for a personal post in a time of mourning he posted?. I have disagreed Sandmonkey on many political issues but don’t you think that bringing in his teta in this topic in not really nice?

    Don’t you think that if someone poured his heart out in a moment of grieve that it should be left alone and respected and we should only disagree in respectful way without bringing up someone dear to him that passed away?

    Sandmonkey’s Grandma loved him dearly and unconditionally and I am sure she accepted him for who he is.

  41. Twos @ 33:

    True, there are plenty of double standards in the West as well – we’re only a generation or two out of religious slavery after all…!

    But… equaling “decent, ethical and moral” with celibacy, as you do @ 27 does not correlate at all with “I never looked down on anyone else who chose different.” Sorry, but you very much did just a few posts ago…

    “I am too precious” Huh…? Like one becomes any less precious by having sex with more than one person in a lifetime? Pft…!

  42. Adam, it almost sounds as if you weren’t ridiculing and looking down on people who believe in celibacy up there in post #31! Or people who believe in these “old religions”, for that matter! Twosret thinks her beliefs are better just as much as you obviously believe yours are. Disagreeing with her is fine, but don’t act like she’s the only one getting self-righteous in this discussion! If anything I’d say Twosret has been more open-minded than you have. And you probably know how much I hate having to say that about Twosret!

  43. Adam,

    I didn’t mean to sound pretentious when I said I am too precious etc…. all what I was saying that my background, religion, being raised by a Christian mom have supported my choice.

    I don’t know what you believe in and I didn’t mean to disrespect your choices, I was only trying to speak for some Egyptian women who had similar situation like mine and made similar choices and were not forced into it.

    And I totally agree with you sleeping with more than one person doesn’t make you less precious. I think you are disregarding culture, religious, and social factors just because your system of belief doesn’t agree with mine.

  44. “And you probably know how much I hate having to say that about Twosret!”

    and if he doesn’t I DO! :-)

  45. bj,

    “but as regards the permissibility of pre-marital sex in Judaism, the only correct response is that you’d have to ask your Rabbi.”

    Through my readings Judaism is clear about premarital sex, can you please show me links where it says that it is up to the Rabbi to decide?

    All the links I pulled out was clearly saying otherwise.

  46. Note for my fellow males of our species. Fine, dear Sir, on your wedding night her hymen was intact and you believe that you’ve escaped the Great Disappointment. Problem is, while she never allowed any male any penile pentration of her vagina, not a day went by that some man didn’t bring her to a state of orgasmic ecstasy by way of putting his tongue to one of its various and sundry uses. And since she wasn’t a selfish gal, or so she believes, she felt the need to reciprocate, and she used every part of her but her vagina for that purpose. Along the way there was also those men who she claimed to love, and people who know her know that she really loved those men at the time. And so her having an intact hymen means exactly what again?

    And did I mention notion of bride of Christ? Hard for us claim our virginity in coming to Christ, I mean, it’s not like one and all don’t stand accused of going a whoring after other gods. Apparently, she’s good enough for Christ but not for him.

  47. brooklynjon says:

    Two, there are plenty of knowledgeable religious authorities (In Judaism) willing to give their opinion regarding this or that aspect of Jewish Law. The fact is, they are stating their opinion about the law, rather than the law itself. Your rabbi won’t say “Ask your rabbi,” but will rather give his opinion.

    Anyway, here’s a historical perspective:
    http://www.faqs.org/faqs/judaism/FAQ/04-Observance/section-71.html

    In general, premarital sex has been “discouraged”, and promiscuity has been “strongly discouraged”, but sexual relations between two people who are “engaged” has been tolerated. There has been variation over time, and periods of greater and lesser puritanicism. But for the most part, this is regarded as “minhag” (tradition) rather than “halacha” law.

    But then, Jews like sex. We have 613 commandments, and sex is the first one. :-)

  48. This topic is becoming too hot to handle lol

  49. bj,

    Are you making up your religion? lol

    This is what I found under the first commandments in the 613 you mentioned

    “To know that G-d exists (Ex. 20:2; Deut. 5:6) (CCA1)”

    Doesn’t sound like sex to me looool

  50. Jon,

    Forbidden Sexual Relations

    82. Not to indulge in familiarities with relatives, such as kissing, embracing, winking, skipping, which may lead to incest (Lev. 18:6) (CCN110).

    83. Not to commit incest with one’s mother (Lev. 18:7) (CCN112).

    84. Not to commit sodomy with one’s father (Lev. 18:7) (CCN111).

    85. Not to commit incest with one’s father’s wife (Lev. 18:8) (CCN113).

    #82 seems silly, and #83-#85 seem pretty much like no-brainers to me! I bet I could whittle that list down from 613 to about 20 and it would be just as good!

  51. Craig @ 37:

    You’re missing the point entirely… I don’t think Twos is worse (as in having a lower moral and ethical standards) than me because she believes in marital sex only. I do feel that she is a slave to stone age customs and the pressure of society, and I do feel that her morals and ethics suffer because she looks down on people who feel different than she does.

    It’s not her attitude towards sex; it’s her attitude towards people with a different attitude towards sex.

    Or rather, what I felt she presented as her attitude…! As per her explanation in her post @ 38, I take it she didn’t mean what she said @ 27 in the way that I read it.

    As for the old religions, I stand by my exasperation at people living by standards from thousands of years ago, and the idea of some completely unaffirmed entity controlling everything. They might as well believe in the easter bunny! Now, if they could just keep those beliefs private, but no… The rest of us have to meet their arbitrary requirements as well…!

  52. ” I do feel that she is a slave to stone age customs and the pressure of society, and I do feel that her morals and ethics suffer because she looks down on people who feel different than she does.”

    It is either you have a serious comprehension problem, or you hate religions so much that you can’t respect people who still believe in religions.

  53. “that you can’t respect people who still believe in religions.”

    I can respect them as people, provided they respect my lack of religious faith; I certainly don’t respect them for their religious beliefs.

    Consider it this way: Do you respect people who believe in the abominable snowman, the Loch Ness monster, or faked moon landings? If you do, is your respect aimed at them as humans or at their belief in these ideas? What if these people somehow became the majority and demanded that you accept these ideas as well, in order to not insult them?

  54. I respect everyone and I don’t give a dime what they believe in period. Religion or any system of belief is non of my business and won’t let me judge anyone. Not your color, not your race…..

    I don’t like anyone imposing anything on anyone majority or minority.

    want me to sign? :-) bring it on!

  55. No Twos… I believe you, I believe you! :D

  56. lol

  57. I feel sorry for religious people that but sex on a throne.

    Fucking is something you do. Like walking and washing your hands.

    Something great to do, I agree. But only that.

    Jesus said: It’s not important what you put into your mouth but what words come out your mouth. Not what you eat or do but what you talk and in what state of mind you do it.

    Fuck whenever you prefer.

  58. “What if someone else was there first? What if she knows how small my Penis really is?”

    Bwahahahaha!!!

  59. What’s the big fucking fuss? The Grand Mufti of Egypt has issued a fatwa allowing or making “halal” hymen reconstruction. Is the problem how you fool your future husband? Is on way ok and another not. Can we get another fatwa on permitted ways to lie/fool your husband into thinking his pee pee is the first to poke you? http://www.dailystaregypt.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=5719

    Turette: You need to relax and discover the slut within! You’ll find it very refreshing.

    BJ: I wish I met your Rabbi when i was single :( PS know any good priests that can get around the whole adultery thing for me :D and more importantly can thy can convince my fianc that its ok for the man but not so much for the woman. If so you know where to get my number ;-P

    Infidel Dane:I guess the joke is on her cause she has to pretend that your dick isn’t puny and try and keep a straight face doing it ;)

  60. brooklynjon says:

    Two, You’re talking about the first of the “Ten Commandments”. This is basically a brief summation of the Torah. But the Torah has 613 commandments. The first is “Be fruitful and multiply”. It’s worth noting that at the time this commandment was given, the catering hall had not yet been invented, so it must necessarily mean that premarital sex is acceptable.

    CC: Jacob had two wives, and he made nookie with their handmaidens as well. So, uh, good luck with that.

    “If so you know where to get my number ;-P”
    Yes, I do. :-)

    bj

  61. BJ, I think she did a google seacrh and ended up teh same place I did!

    http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm

    #1. To know that G-d exists (Ex. 20:2; Deut. 5:6) (CCA1).

    Are you claiming the Jew FAQ is wrong!?

  62. I like these:

    That a eunuch shall not marry a daughter of Israel
    That a mamzer shall not marry the daughter of a Jew
    That an Ammonite or Moabite shall never marry the daughter of an Israelite
    Not to exclude a descendant of Esau from the community of Israel for three generations
    Not to exclude an Egyptian from the community of Israel for three generations

    Great, so guys with no nuts aren’t allowed to marry jewish women. Neither are kids born out of marriage. Also they mustn’t have liked the Ammonites and the Moabites much – I wouldn’t like my daughter to marry an exticnt cephalopod either! ;) Obviously, they were not quite as cross with Esau or egyptians, but still… having to wait three generations to get an entry-pass?!? :D

    Religion = absurdity

  63. That’s why they call it faith Adam!!!! Not that hard to see there are many good things for society and mankind in the religious books. The trouble comes when someone hand picks obscure passages and tries to change the original intent or context.

    “Be fruitful and multiply”.

    Today could mean dress and act outlandishly gay and be good at math, … not that there’s anything wrong with that!

    There are hundreds of thousands of people that have dedicated their lives to study the scriptures, I believe they have more knowledge on what is said in religious texts than we have here. You feel Religion is absurd, that’s fine. What do you think of string theory? Quantum mechanics? The latest ideas that there are hundreds if not thousands of dimensions, parallel universes occurring simultaneously, right now in the space that we occupy? Eleven dimensional hyper space? Seems absurd but it looks as if it may be a fact. Just because you can’t see, taste, smell something doesn’t mean it’s not there, just because your not aware of something doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

    I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss something you might have a hard time believing or understanding. Just sayin! :)

    Dr. Michio Kaku has a talent of making unfathomable things (nearly! lol) understandable. I know this won’t convince you but it should at least open you up for the infinite possibilities that man just isn’t aware of, … yet.

    http://www.one-mind-one-energy.com/multiverse.html

  64. *snort* I’ve always wondered if it was all about how small the guy was and his fear of being found out? Thanks for confirming what I’ve always wondered!

  65. brooklynjon says:

    Craig, Two,

    Now I see what you guys are talking about. Jewfaq is not wrong, but they are not putting the commandments in the sequence in which they appear in the Torah. They are putting them into the sequence that makes sense to them. If you look at the Torah, the commandment that comes first is be fruitful and multiply. It is also one of the few (alongside giving charity) positive commandments that are considered so important that there is no prayer to be said before doing it.

    http://www.shamash.org/lists/scj-faq/HTML/faq/03-49.html

  66. brooklynjon says:

    And who named the hymen anyway? What a silly sounding name for that particular piece of flesh.

  67. ted,

    “What do you think of string theory? Quantum mechanics? The latest ideas that there are hundreds if not thousands of dimensions, parallel universes occurring simultaneously, right now in the space that we occupy? Eleven dimensional hyper space? Seems absurd but it looks as if it may be a fact.”

    It does not seem absurd, and as you point out, everything we know presently indicates that these theories are part of the fabric of our universe. They are all based on rational thinking and can, to some extent, be tested against what we can observe. In other words, they’re substantiated and thus plausible. Unlike religion.

    “I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss something you might have a hard time believing or understanding. Just sayin! ”

    If there was any rational argument for the existence of a God-like entity whatsoever, I’d give it due consideration. As it is, there are absolutely no indicators that such an entity exists, so why lend it any more credibility than Maximus Prime or intelligent cheese?

    You can believe in God all you want. Believe in fairies, werewolves or green men from Mars for all I care – just don’t expect me to respect your arbitrary beliefs or live by your arbitrary standards.

    I kind of like this summary of God:

    “You are the parent of many who you love without measure.

    You have the ability to talk directly to your children about how you love them, your plans for them, and to let them know you but instead choose be an absentee parent living in an invisible, intangible, inaccessible place which your children can not prove exists, causing some of them to doubt you are anywhere out there.

    You have taken great effort to create a home for your children to live in. This home has its own hazards even though you have the ability to make the home completely safe for them.

    You have given your rules of behaviour to your children in a form which all their efforts can not prove came from you but could have been made up by some of your children a long time ago. There are other sets of rules similar to yours, which were undoubtedly made up by bad children who choose not to follow your rules. One of your rules is to ignore all these other sets of rules. Virtually all the other rules sets have a similar rule and are similar enough to yours, leading many of your children to wonder which set, if any, came from you and was not created by one of their long gone siblings.

    You have included one or two rules in your set of rules which are your primary rules. These rules claim that after “growing up” and leaving home, there will be an ultimate reward if followed, but an ultimate punishment will be given to those who fail to follow them. You have not provided any evidence of the existence of the reward or punishment and none of your children have ever seen any of their siblings receive either because once a child leaves home, they are never seen again.

    You know your children better than they know themselves. You know some of them will choose to follow your rules, some will follow other rules sets, and some will choose to ignore all the rules sets as there is no evidence that any of the sets are from any parental figure and most likely a trick put on by some of their other siblings. You know without a doubt that all your children would follow your rules and only your rules if you would only show yourself to them, something well within your ability.

    The great questions are:

    Why would you let many of your loved children suffer an ultimate punishment when, with little effort on your part, they could all achieve the ultimate reward?

    How much do you actually love your children?

    Are you being a “good parent” or should your children be taken away from you for neglect?”

  68. I suggest a simpler and cheaper device for those women who are virtuosly challenged, and that would be a simple packet of heinz ketchup:) Tastes better too.

  69. They are all based on rational thinking and can, to some extent, be tested against what we can observe.

    Really? We can observe time travel as per Quantum theory? We can observe the existence of alternate dimensions? There must have been some scientific breakthroughs I haven’t heard about!

    There’s no more basis for either of those than there is for what primitive man wrote about his analysis of the nature of the universe thousands of years ago. In 500 years people may very well be ridiculing Quantum physics in much the same way we ridicule people who believed the earth was flat and that sun revolved around the earth now. Or maybe they will have not only proven Quantum physics, but will have mastered it by then. It’s impossible to know.

    And by the way, the existence of alternate dimensions and therefore alternate realities would explain many biblical concepts quite nicely :)

  70. Craig:

    “Really? We can observe time travel as per Quantum theory? ”

    Yes we can.

    http://www.exo.net/~pauld/activities/physics/generalrelativityathome.htm

    We have tried putting an atomic clock on an airplane and flying it around the world. When compared with a pre-flight synchronized clock, it was off by a fraction.

    “We can observe the existence of alternate dimensions?”

    Yes we can, by proxy.

    http://www.news.wisc.edu/13422

    Observing the behaviour of matter and energy around us “shows” us boundaries and effects of alternate (or better, extra-) dimensions.

    “There must have been some scientific breakthroughs I haven’t heard about!”

    Obviously. Nothing wrong with that, though…

    “There’s no more basis for either of those than there is for what primitive man wrote about his analysis of the nature of the universe thousands of years ago”

    Ridiculous. We have set up scientific theories based on calculations that explains in detail what we see with our own eyes. You trust your life to those calculations each time you venture out into modern society… The key word here is “explains”, as opposed to guessing/supposing/indoctrinating.

    “In 500 years people may very well be ridiculing Quantum physics in much the same way we ridicule people who believed the earth was flat”

    In 500 years we may indeed learn that Quantum theory was inadequate, in much the same way that we now know Newtons Theory of Gravity only shows us part of the picture. We will not, however, be ridiculing it. Quantum theory might only be the stepping stone to the true definition of the universe, but it’s definitely a step in the right direction.

    “And by the way, the existence of alternate dimensions and therefore alternate realities would explain many biblical concepts quite nicely”

    I think you misunderstand the concept of extra dimensions… It’s not as if were talking dimension like ours but separate, comic book style. Extra dimensions would exist not parallel but jointly with those four that we can observe. Picture a drawing of a man on a piece of paper. If he was “alive” he would not be able to observe you while you could easily observe him. None of you would be able to interact with each other, though (sure, you could tear up the paper, but that’s going beyond the limits of the example…).

    What I mean to say is, religion is pure speculation without a shred of proof, and was meant to explain the world to simple people, removing the need to ask why. For modern, thinking man, religion poses more questions than answers, and you know the idea of Occam’s razor, right?

  71. We have tried putting an atomic clock on an airplane and flying it around the world. When compared with a pre-flight synchronized clock, it was off by a fraction.

    That’s not a demonstration of time travel, Adam :)

    It’s cute how you linked to a science fiction site for your proof, too! I think I’ll start quoting Asimov back at you.

    “I think you misunderstand the concept of extra dimensions…”

    *sigh*

  72. Before I emigrated from Egypt in 1977, I have had two constructive hymens surgery done for two girlfriends, 32 years later; they are in the same stat of mind. Such stupidity.

  73. as i liked the idea of your post. I still don’t get y u always blame islam with everything. Also, I want to know what was it to just squeeze the veil thing in the middle ? that was stupid rather offensive. Some people think that bashing islam is the way to get some popularity or even to get some interest from those who will view as “different” or odd.

    i respect the idea and i encourage that sexually we should look at men and women the same. ot only women should be punished if the commit it. Men are also reliable to punishment if they sleep with someone other than their spouses. That is what I don’t get about our stupid society, they talk of religion only on women, while men go sleep around like animals mating with anything that comes along, even with soap lol, yet women are punished if they even fall in love .. this isn’t religion, this is ignorance.

  74. Craig @ 74:

    Lol, very delayed answer…!

    “That’s not a demonstration of time travel”

    It most certainly is… The airplane and everything in it has just traveled a fraction of a second into the future, comparative to it’s surroundings. It may be all we can do today, but it’s enough to show that the idea behind the quantum theory is sound, which again tells us that humans most likely will never be able to travel BACK in time, considering the forces involved in creating such an event…

  75. Hymen Goldstein is gonna be pissed if he gets banned. Or was his name Hyram? Ah well, a rose by any other name …………

  76. Hilarious. The Chinese find a market for anything. I wonder if the racket of Islamic sanctioned weekend marriages has gotten on the band wagon and started reinventing virginity every other weekend with a new partner. And yes, it does not take a lot of sophistication to have sex without breaking the hymen. Even pregnancy can happen without deep penetration … “I am a virgin see my hymen!!! It must be G-d’s baby!!” However, in a culture as obsessed with the satisfaction of bloody sex, getting married while on the period is the norm for many women. As far as Morehamhead … you are not as smart as you would like to think yourself. The Middle East is not the birth place of religion, and you are not from the center of the world, in fact quite the opposite.

  77. when you mix religion, sexual orientation, and govornment policies, you will have problems…these country’s that practice this will never get along. these are personal choices no ones business. these are barbaric practises. these people interpret thing their own way. If the men of these countries stopped raping these children, and woman, they aren’t safe in there own homes and much worse in their own environment. The man that hits, degrades , forces himself upon these people, and then participates in their punishment, for doing what he did to her in the first place , he himself should be put on trial, and untill the powers that be stay out of the peoples personal life and stop forsing back wood policies , we all have rights and freedoms that we take for granted everyday. Woman and children are not second class. Men keep your dick in your hand and or for your signifigant other and the world wont be so bad.

  78. “Great, so guys with no nuts aren’t allowed to marry jewish women”

    That’s so that Jewish women won’t be deprived of the pleasure of removing them themselves. :)

  79. @82
    jejejeje ^_^

    @3,6,7,8,11
    Dry up and stop repeating yourself, crazy ol SnackBar, DickBar, FuckBar or whatever. Sounds like you got a little upset & defensive when he advised having the males’ anal virginity inspected on the wedding night. Got something to hide, Ho-Mo?

  80. AEWHistory says:

    One of my all-time favorite books is written by a guy, a pseudonym surely, named Dick Hymen. Yup, really, no BS. I wonder what brought those two (names) together? Heh, heh, get it?

    -AEW

  81. I’m 59 and met exactly one girl who was remaining a virgin for her husband. She was a Christian.
    I heard that the Mormon girls remain virgins until they marry and they give you oral sex instead.

  82. We should invent something to stick on a penis and tells if this dick has had sex.

    A Tech hymen for men. That way everyone can be happy and in control of the other one.

    Btw. Have you heard of Gaddafi and Berlusconi? Gaddafi told Berlusconi to invite 500 “young and beautiful italian women” to a lecture where he told them to convert to Islam. For Berlosconi it was no problem to find 500 young women obviously.